Salon on Gollum's Failed Oscar Nomination 301
Masem writes "Salon has an interesting commentary on the failure for Andy Serkis, the actor that used as the model and voice for Gollum in The Two Tower, to garnish an Oscar nomination despite the pressure that Peter Jackson and others placed on the Academy to get the nomination. They had previously pointed to John Hurt's Best Actor nomination in "The Elephant Man", in which the only visible feature of Hurt was his eyes after the elaborate makeup and costuming, but even then, Hurt did not win, he himself believing that it would be hard to connect the real actor to the role that he played. Salon suggests that the Academy needs to seriously consider how digital technology is affecting the way movies are being made and to be more open to non-traditional roles and films as potental Oscar material."
Gollum on Salon's failed business venture (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Gollum on Salon's failed business venture (Score:2)
Your post is a very funny way of bringing up this story.
Re:Gollum on Salon's failed business venture (Score:2, Interesting)
they managed to stay alive on a subscription business model for this long, which is more than i can say for ANY publication on the web with original daily content. ESPN.com couldn't do it, as many others.
whether you like salon or not, credit is due to them for surviving as long as they did. when the economy changed, they adapted.
they were one of the first to embrace open source technologies...and I mean embrace, not just webserving. they were the first to publish original content that other publications wouldn't.
they remain (whether they closed their doors or not) as the ONLY independently run online publication.
for some perspective, USA today was in the deep red for *FIVE* years before they turned one profit, and is STILL not recognized as either original or of high reputation.
Re:Gollum on Salon's failed business venture (Score:2, Funny)
and managed to pay writers what they are worth.
Too bad Jon Katz didn't work there, he'd end up paying them for the priviledge.
A shame... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:A shame... (Score:3, Insightful)
Bottom line:
LOTR didn't come from Hollywood's sweethearts. Even if the movies and performances tower above all others, it may not receive much at the Oscars.
technology and voice (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:technology and voice (Score:3, Insightful)
I guess a category isn't a category, a competition isn't a competition, unless you have the people to fill it.
Maybe an honorary mentioning then?
Re:technology and voice (Score:2)
Re:technology and voice (Score:2)
Re:technology and voice (Score:5, Informative)
Re:technology and voice (Score:2)
Re:technology and voice (Score:4, Funny)
Re:technology and voice (Score:3, Insightful)
Ah but Jar Jar's repugnance must have been digitally enhanced. Look at the difference in public reception between these two.
Just goes to show you: Content is EVERYTHING.
Re:technology and voice (Score:2)
He did not do it by himself. The question at hand is this. Does this type of work qualify as acting? At some point will we be handing out awards to digital actors?
I don't really care, I just wanted to point out he did a hell of a lot more than just voice act.
Re:technology and voice (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think the question here is as simple as whether or not what you see on-screen is a fabrication or not. It's always a fabrication--the only question is how much is it the expression of the actor's work and how much is someone else's, and I'm not sure even that is a line that can be firmly drawn.
Re:technology and voice (Score:5, Informative)
Re:technology and voice (Score:2)
Best performance in digitized kinetics
Re:technology and voice (Score:3, Interesting)
In the near future there will be more and more actors with this kind of performance. We will start seeing movies with fiction actors and one could be playing as the main character, imagine a full motion picture named The Loveable Alien From Dunno-Whats-the-planet that the main actor is an (guess what) alien with better feelings and moral behavior that we-us humans, and get to the world's likeness at a "Schlinder List" or higher scale.
These main (virtual) actor would have done a huge effort from himself to make the wonderfully performed "alien" and get no real credit on an academy award.
Pedro Meza mafufo.com
check yet another geeks webcomic at overcaffeinated.net
Re:It wasn't just the voice (Score:3, Interesting)
I think rather than continuing to just ignore roles like this that "don't fit" into a category, they should do SOMETHING.
Re:It wasn't just the voice (Score:5, Interesting)
I think rather than continuing to just ignore roles like this that "don't fit" into a category, they should do SOMETHING. .or have a special award for this . .
Best Voice / Digitally Enhanced Acting Performance. That would also let actors from animated films get a chance.
Re:It wasn't just the voice (Score:2, Funny)
Best Voice / Digitally Enhanced Acting Performance. That would also let actors from animated films get a chance.
And Keanu Reeves!
Re:It wasn't just the voice (Score:2)
But, then, who is the actor? The guy that did the voice, or the animators that drew the character and gave him form?
Re:It wasn't just the voice (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think there is a good example of this once a year yet. The award would end up being given to characters like Jar Jar Binks and Dobbie by default - making the Academy awards even more of a travesty than they already are.
Oscars have VERY little to do with quality anyway (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe this is just me... (Score:2)
Sakis should, be eligible considering the historical characters that won. I mean, he plays a crippled, mentally deficient, flawed character. That's like Oscar gold right there.
Maybe when someone delivers a good performance with a digital character, they can get nominated. Granted, the movie was good. But I don't honestly think Legolas or Aragorn or anyone else's portrayal stands out in any respect. LOTR is more of a triumph of a complete movie, not 2 or 3 exceptional performances.
Re:Oscars have VERY little to do with quality anyw (Score:2, Insightful)
Anyway, by your theory, LOTR would have won every award last year, no?
Re:Oscars & Titanic (Score:2)
My penence was that damned song being foisted upon us all for months. Mea Culpa.
The Academy (Score:5, Insightful)
In a way this mirrors the failure of the recording industry to 'get it' in our rapidly changing times. The entrenched establishment of the music and movie industry is so hidebound that nothing short of dramatic reform (i.e. tear it all down and start over) will probably fix it.
As CGI and other digital effects become more and more commonplace, there will have to be a change in perception by the Academy (aside: Do they teach something? I thought Academies were teaching institutions???) or they will become increasingly irrelelvant. Already, to many movie lovers, the Oscars are more of a joke than anything else.
Just my not so humble opinion. Your milage may vary.
I agree but I'll add more (Score:5, Insightful)
I completely agree with what you said but I'd go a step further and state that I think the whole idea of awards for movies and other art seems bizarre and way too subjective. Supposedly, top talent have chosen to make movies because they love the artform. So why would an award be meaningful to them? Awards are useful in athletic competitions but are they truly appropriate for art? I would argue that they are not. The creative talent in Hollywood (please don't snicker) should find that the chance to make art they think is meaningful and appreciated by others is reward enough. A golden statue and lavous ceremony should not be necessary.
We are then stuck with the question: why do we have award ceremonies (and so damn many of them as well)? I submit to you that the reason is purely popularity, politics and marketing as dreamchaser said. I don't give a damn about the Oscars and, quite frankly, I don't understand why anyone else does either.
GMD
Re:I agree but I'll add more (Score:5, Interesting)
Good points. You should be modded up!
Re:I agree but I'll add more (Score:5, Informative)
Supposedly, top talent have chosen to make movies because they love the artform. So why would an award be meaningful to them? Awards are useful in athletic competitions but are they truly appropriate for art?
Acting awards go back to the 6th century or at worst early 5th century BC. That's right, BC. The terms "protagonist" and "antagonist" go back to the technical Greek terms for the first and second actors of a tragedy or comedy; there were prizes for the best protagonist (as well as for the best 4-play tragic production or 1-play comic production).
Re:I agree but I'll add more (Score:2)
Re:I agree but I'll add more (Score:3, Funny)
Re:The Academy (Score:2)
Also, please note, you'll find that Awards ceremonies are linked in a symbiotic relationship with sales. "WINNER OF..."/"NOMINATED FOR..." is used in almost every advertisement.
I suppose the day when we see a complete CGI film make the list will be far off, however much effort and emotion goes into the production.
I daresay there will be many more wooden actors in the audience than Gollum's character. Sad.
Re:The Academy (Score:4, Insightful)
And I don't think it's shabby or dishonest as long as you approach it that way. After all if you're buying a tin of baked beans or a car you can try out the product first. There's no way to do that with a movie except to go on someone else's judgement. The Oscars are one source of information for doing that.
As with any contest where the result is determined by a vote there are many different reasons why people vote they way they do which don't necessarily relate to the matter at hand. This is human nature and we expect this to be the case and treat the result accordingly.
But the only way to remove those non-relevant voting influences is to use some objective measure. But if there was an objective measure we wouldn't need to have a vote.
As for it being cliquey - there are other awards that are voted for by the general public. If you want to pay more attention to those results you are free to do so.
Re:The Academy (Score:5, Insightful)
They're also a promotional tool to sell celebrity. Not celebrities, but celebrity - the notion that there's a group of people ("celebrities") who are prettier, wealthier, more knowledgeable on world affairs, and just plain better than you.
It's not that a CGI Gollum threatens the ability of $MOVIESTAR to demand a multimillion-dollar contract. (It does, but that's beside the point.)
It's that a CGI Gollum threatens the whole concept of "movie star" in the first place.
Once we realize that $MOVIESTARs are little more meat puppets that can be rendered by having anybody go the same motions in front of a bluescreen and using software to overlay an appropriate skin and bump-map on our pasty little knobbly bodies, we might stop paying attention to them.
Was it deserved? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Was it deserved? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to pick nits... (hey, it's Slahdot! I guess I will pick nits! c'mere, nits!)
I'm not trying to be flip.
There is an inherent problem in portraying something like Gollum on the screen. He's not going to ever look really 'real', in a sense, because you've never seen a real one.
I spoke last year with a friend who had worked on some of the CG in Spider-man. It too was criticized quite a bit for looking 'cartoony', not moving right, etc. This friend went to great lengths to explain to me that the problem was physics. You've never seen a guy move 3x faster than a normal human, while doing flips and handstands and generally flinging himself all over the place. Guess what? It looks really weird. He was quite disappointed that none of the hardcore fans had picked up on this, and actually felt slighted: here was the Spider-man CG team, actually sticking to the described physical limits of the character, and of course it looks a little strange.
Now, as far as Gollum goes, I can't buy that he looked cartoony, or that the motion was 'off'. It all looked pretty damn perfect to me. (If anything, they needed to grain him up a bit as sometimes the CG looks a little too clear.) Of course I know its not real, but that's because I know.
a** kissers (Score:5, Insightful)
I do think he should get a nomination, but aren't these things supposed to be related to actual performance by the actor compared to his contemporaries, and not crooked lobbying?
Re:a** kissers (Score:2)
No.
Re:a** kissers (Score:5, Funny)
No, that's the other Academy of Motion Pictures you're thinking of. You know, the one that doesn't exist.
Crooked judges take bribses (Score:4, Funny)
Tron (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Tron (Score:2)
The actor *made* the character (Score:4, Insightful)
Seiyuu (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Seiyuu (Score:2)
Five Words: The Return Of The King (Score:2, Insightful)
Next it'll be "Meet The Feebles 2: Feebles Invade America" rallying for Academy recognition... 8^)
ch(j)eers,
Levendis47
Why not a special Oscar? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Why not a special Oscar? (Score:2)
Well, what IS an actor? (Score:4, Interesting)
It's time to ask the question: What IS an actor? Strictly speaking, I'd say that the voice and visual inspiration for a digital character is, in fact, an actor. However, the final onscreen character is the result of many people toiling away in many different jobs. The animator, the designer, the painter, the guy who runs the mocap studio... they all have a hand in it. Perhaps the academy simply needs a new category. Best digital actor, or something similar. Certainly all the work put into something like Gollum deserves more than an fx nomination!
Re:Well, what IS an actor? (Score:4, Insightful)
Long answer:
All of those different bits of acting you mention require acting talent, and, usually, training. Voice acting is no exception. Voice acting can be very challenging, since a lot of actors I know (and myself) benefit greatly from having a real set and real costumes to put us where we want to be. Voice actors usually sit in a studio with headphones and a mic, so it's a lot more imginative. There's also a lot of books devoted to dialect study and even 'standard American,' or how American English is supposed to sound even though nobody actually speaks that way; for example, the word 'our' is often pronounced 'are' while it's supposed to sound more like 'hour' and 'what you' (like what you did that time) is supposed to be 'whaT you' and not 'whatchyou,' which is how nearly everybody says it.
There are many other things like those that will contribute to a seamless performance, even though not knowing about them doesn't necessary detract very much -- whatchyou and are/our sound natural to many people. Similarly, learning a Cockney accent or an Irish accent is technically challenging, but even if you master the accent, there are cultural things related to the vernacular in each and how words are used together (especially slang) that no engineer or computer will ever replace.
Personally, I believe that Serkis should've been nominated, but I also can't argue with the author's point (Hi Ivan!) that it gives future quasi-digital characters an unfair advantage. Most digital characters have actors behind them that contribute something, even if its just reacting to other characters in the scene during rehearsal and initial filming -- if the guy they have doing Jar Jar really sucks, for example, then Ewan MacGregor has a harder time doing scenes he has with Jar Jar, because a single character's bad acting can bring a whole scene down even if the actual character is digitally removed and replaced with something else for the film. Every single thing in the composition of a scene will affect an actor somehow.
But then, if you argue that you don't want to consider actors who get computerized help, shouldn't that disqualify anybody who has FX in their scenes? Doesn't the whole movie affect your attitude towards any actor in it just as anything in the movie affects the actor's performance?
Re:Well, what IS an actor? (Score:2, Funny)
Whoa, for a second there I thought you were CleverNickName [slashdot.org].
(Just kidding, Wil.)
Re:Well, what IS an actor? (Score:2)
There's a difference between watching a CGI and a human acting. There will always be, if you know who is who before. Sure it will br possible to make a CGI exactly like a human, and make it cry, but it will not be the same.
Looking at someone, an actor, and this person touches you, makes you flow with him, his emotions, is a different experience.
Kinda lame, and cliche, but hey, I am human too.
Second, many "actors" of today are more digital than Golum. For example, think about Britney Spears or any other model/singer/famous person in a movie.
Plastic boobs, hours of exercise, voice and manners controlled by PR specialists, controlled public appearance, what to wear, what to say, what to be.
Looks artificial enough to me!
Re:Well, what IS an actor? (Score:2)
Re:Well, what IS an actor? (Score:2)
Teamwork (Score:5, Interesting)
This is a golden moment for the Academy to honor an astounding performance the likes of which we may never see again.
I can't hold it against them too much: for the most part the Academy wouldn't recognize good acting if it walked up and bit them. They too often honor "showy" acting, largely one-dimensional with huge emotional swings and featured parts, that are actually built on a combination of music, camera work, editing, and a host of other factors outside the performance itself.
I'm an actor myself, and IMHO on film you can see only a performance, not an actor. That's good: you're not supposed to be watching the acting. The hard work of acting is accomplished where you can't see it, in rehearsal rooms and in the actor's bathroom, in front of the mirror, and in long talks with fellow actors at the bar worrying about each syllable, on set finding the right tone not just for you but for everybody in a scene. All of which can be lost by different editing, direction, a music choice going the other way, or another actor taking a different choice.
I applaud Serkis' work, and I want to see if he has range as well as talent. I'm sorry the Academy chose not to honor him, and that's always going to hurt no matter how meaningless the award and no matter how thunderous the accolades from the people whose opinions really do matter.
Wouldn't be fair. (Score:3, Interesting)
LOTR Will Kill Next Year (Score:3, Insightful)
Bad omen (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bad omen (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bad omen (Score:2)
This does not bode well for the new character being introduced in The Return of the King [parent's link to bbspot.com] who is also digitally generated.
Don't look. It's too painful. Don't look!
I warned you.
Re:Bad omen (Score:2)
I need to find a goatse.cx link to wipe that from my mind.
The problem with CGI + Human acting (Score:2)
How much of Gollum's facial expressions were Serkis and how much was CGI? Could we ever know? I suppose those that are nominating could watch the film without the CGI enhancements to see the actor's portion of the performance but that creates a whole new set of problems.
In the end, I suspect that a new category is going to be developed for just such a role. Best CGI Enhanced Character or some such thing could work. Who should receive the award though? The actor or the animator (assuming it isn't just software controlled).
When you watch the Oscars... (Score:2)
I can't wait for the day movies accumulate whuffie instead of canned praises from the people that produced them. =)
(And yes, I just finished reading k5)
And this is surprising? (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe some actors like the idea of "modeling" for a digital character; probably a lot of directors are intrigued by the possibilities. But I bet the majority of the Academy members hate the whole idea.
Super Mario Brothers: A Literary Criticism (Score:3, Funny)
Like in classic Greek drama, much of the story is implied. Because the setting is not a part of our common mythos, however, it comes with a small supplemental text which fills in the history for the reader: the evil dragon Bowser Koopa (a metaphor for a kingpin) has invaded a once-propserous kingdom, and those residents who did not join him and become goombas (the local slang for dealers) were turned into blocks - that is, they were embedded in concrete, to sleep with the fishes, as it were.
Enter Mario, the fallen hero. At the very outset of his adventure, he is doomed, as almost right away he steals a dealer's mushroom (obviously mixed with peyote) and begins to hallucinate, that he is big, that he is powerful. As though on PCP, he finds it easy to break solid bricks by punching it and does not perceive the pain; however, when dealers, pushers (personified by turtles much like Thompson's literal lounge lizards), and other minions of the kingpin cause him pain (in retaliation for his original drug theft), he immediately loses the empowering effects of the peyote, and in fact, seems very small and vulnerable, and must desparately seek out another hit. When he is not seeking out a hit of peyote, he is seeking out much more powerful stuff indeed - a flower (the opium-giving poppy) or a star (a hit of LSD), both of which further his delusions of being strong and powerful.
Right after he has apparently slid down a flagpole (a strong reference to receiving anal sex), he finds himself in the proverbial sewers, already feeling a deep low from his initial hits wearing off. But after more anal sex, he is high in the mountains, which psychadelically appear as gigantic mushrooms, an obvious result of his hallucinatory state. And then, after even more anal sex, he finds himself in a castle, but it is of his own imagination, built up of his drug-induced isolation, for at the end he thinks he has confronted the kingpin Koopa, but he quickly finds that it is but another hallucination, merely a pusher goomba, though he only discovers this after, in a drug-crazed rage, he kills this apparition of his nemesis.
His trials and travails continue along his slide into dementia, with such powerful imagery as being underwater (drowning in desparation) and along a long suspension bridge with flying fish (skirting death at every corner). After chapter 3, which describes a night of terrors, and chapter 4, another full day, he finds himself in another castle delusion, but this time he is so hopelessly lost in his mind that it appears to him as a maze, where if he does not climb the correct stairs in the right order, he is trapped and seems to endlessly repeat the pathway.
Much more of the same continues, showing the repetition and mental deadness of a drug-induced haze, with some intermediate powerful imagery as a landscape so bleak and gray that it appears to be frozen, causing our fallen hero to psychosomatically slip on what seems to be ice. At many points, he is also unwittingly caught up in drug-related urban warfare, bullets careening across the landscape, although in Mario's stupor, the inanimate metal slugs appear to be living, almost sentient things.
Finally, he enters a final castle which appears to be real, but it is quickly apparent that it is not, for it is filled with all of his prior hallucinations, but twisted into much more nightmarish images, again arranged in a maze as some of the castle-hallucination-nightmares before (although this time with the strong symbolism of the magic number 3), and at the end, when he finally destroys what he believes to be the kingpin Koopa and rescues who he believes to be the princess, it becomes obvious to the reader (though not to Mario, still in a state of dementia) that he was only a hapless pimp and the "princses" his whore, who (at our hero's expense) direct him to start his hapless Quixotic quest from the beginning, only this time, all the drug dealers are wearing bullet-proof jackets (who have appeared as gigantic beetles to our hallucinogenic hero all along).
And so, the cycle of depravity begins anew, but much more difficultly for our pathetically-pathos-pumped plumber.
Of course, this plot summary only begins to scratch the surface of this epic novel. One really must complete it on their own in order to truly appreciate its depth and challenge, trying to sort out what is real and what isn't.
There is, of course, a like-minded series following this book (although the immediate sequel is a blatant last-minute search and replace job on the cancelled Doki Doki Panic); there are also several TV adaptations, a movie (which completely missed the point and took major liberties with the plot), several spin-off series, and, at one time, there was even a breakfast cereal, in a monstrous twist of consumer-driven poetic irony. Regardless of this sensational consumerism, however, the original story has withstood the test of time, and will forever be a literary classic.
Why I couldn't possibly care less... (Score:2)
Re:Why I couldn't possibly care less... (Score:3, Insightful)
In a way digital characters do recieve Awards (Score:2)
An actor that is upset because he/she isn't recognized has a self esteem problem not a recognition/nomination problem.
Re:In a way digital characters do recieve Awards (Score:2)
I wasn't surprised (Score:2)
TRON snubbed too - the academy is slow (Score:4, Interesting)
Sounds like they're often a bit behind the times to me.
Cheers.
Best character portrayal? (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe the solution would be to change the "best actor" category to a "best character portrayal" category to solve this kind of issue. That way the award could be given to whatever group of people were involved in the creation of the character much the same way an award is given to a band or cast.
Not to undercut the thrust of the argument... (Score:4, Insightful)
When an Oscar-deserving performance comes along, computer-augmented or not, it should be recognized. I just didn't think this was one of them.
That being said, the performance wasn't just the actor's alone. There were other artists in front of the keyboard who tweaked and augmented the facial expressions among other things -- the performance was really a collaborative effort to get the final peice on all levels. So would the animators get to share in the Oscar too?
Maybe, just maybe... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Maybe, just maybe... (Score:2)
That aside, I agree that TTT, even w/ the Ents, is going to be the low point in the movie trilogy.
Re:Maybe, just maybe... (Score:2)
I've read the books a bunch of times (20+) since I first had them read to me at the age of 7 by my mother. Each time, I wondered how somebody could find a creature like Gollum as pitiable, and not just a loathsome vile beast.
Jackson and Serkis showed me a gollum who wasn't corrupt to the core, but a flawed, twisted creature who was deserving of pity...
It would be awesome.... (Score:5, Funny)
a new oscar category (Score:2)
surely a new oscar category - "best digital actor" or something along those lines would be a good move forward and should appease all.
Peter Lorre effect (Score:4, Interesting)
Gollum won't get nominated for the same reasons that Peter Lorre [imdb.com] never got any significant award. No matter how good the actor is at playing the part, and no matter how important the role is to the movie, it's just not the type of role that gets nominations. It's not anti-CGI bigotry, it's anti-creepy-guy bigotry.
Andy Serkis? (Score:2)
s1m0ne was NOT the first glipse of this (Score:2)
Are the Oscars even relevant anymore? (Score:3, Insightful)
We all know everything before it even happens (Ashley Judd _is_ Catwoman -- wouldn't Kristen Davis be a better Catwoman?). We (USA) go to movies despite horrendous reviews (DareDevil). Do we really give a crap what Susan Saradon has to say? Or any actor for that matter?
So in short, what difference does it make if the Oscars _don't_ recognize your favortite? I would assume that validates your choice.
who cares (Score:2)
As a paying customer I don't care who is the best actor, really it is the best performance or, more so, the best character that would be more relevant to me. What do I care if the person was really acting well or not or if it was even really a person? I just want to be entertained with a good performance, like when Anthony Hopkins portrays Nixon and I forget that it is Anthony Hopkins...that is great acting, but what do I care if it is really Anthony Hopkins or some computer generation?
Leave Hollywood alone to decide who gets their awards.
Sextone for President, Synthetic Actors Guild (Score:2)
Animation has traditionally been overacted. Originally, that was a consequence of the medium - it's possible to convey subtle emotion with hand animation, but it's a lot of work per frame. CG hasn't helped all that much - expressing subtle emotion by moving sliders around sort of works, but it's not great art. There's a well-known CG hack by which you draw 16 standard facial expressions (happy, sad, angry, etc.) and select linear combinations of their morphs. Much commercial animation is done that way. That's not acting.
Then there's facial motion capture, which is closer to acting. Now the dynamics get better. But getting this to work when people are interacting is tough. Gollum had to be motion-captured separately from the performance, so the poor guy playing him had to replicate the same expressions in a capture session. Dialog is separately re-recorded all the time, even for TV, so this is a standard acting skill. This is acting, even if the characters are CG.
Both methods may be used in the same production, confusing the issue. But that's no worse than stunt players wearing the same outfits as the principals; the industry sorts that out when evaluating performances. (Incidentally, just because you see the face of the principal actor doing a stunt doesn't mean it's really them; that's routinely faked today.)
In time, we may see fully automatic facial animation that doesn't suck, along with automatic voice generation that doesn't suck. But not yet.
Boiled Down (Score:5, Insightful)
A picture's worth a thousand words (Score:2, Interesting)
http://members.evansville.net/ckohler/video/ser
I got the video snippits for this clip from the official Lord of the Rings website.
http://www.lordoftherings.net/
Breaking the 4th Wall (Score:2, Insightful)
When Gollum stared, and spoke into the camera, while experiencing the inner conflict, he interrupted my experience of watching the movie. He was looking at me sitting in a theatre watching a movie, this realization ruined the movie for me.
Art-house plays use this all the time, because to drama students it's daring and dangerous. They forget that there's a good reason it isn't done more. It's annoying to someone who really likes to suspend disbelief and get into their entertainment.
This is why he didn't deserve an oscar nomination.
no big loss (Score:3, Interesting)
but anyone who saw the movie knows that Gollum was probably the most likeable film character of 2002, and proof that all-digital characters can be taken seriously (unlike the infamous Jar-Jar)
Animators are actors (Score:3, Informative)
Welcome to the club, Andy Serkis. The Best Actor nomination should be about performance, but Hollywood still runs on celebrity face power.
Re:Academy needs to seriously consider (Score:2)
John Wayne Is My Cousin (Score:3, Interesting)
As it stated, the way CG characters were handled in the past was that they were thrown in during post-production so that the person responsible for the movement and whatnot wasn't really involved in the scene at the time it was being shot. Jackson took a different approach during the filming and actually had Serkis involved in the process while it was being shot.
The Academy is a little too uppity to throw in new categories until they've already become such an obvious addition that their lack of addition becomes a controversy. The Oscars are really more of a salute to Hollywood's aging stars than rewarding innovative work. [I know that's a generalization and it's not always true - but for the most part it is.]
Best character, period (Score:5, Informative)
The actor was in about all his scenes, and it's essentially his face you see in the movie. Mostly live sound, too. The actor wore a body suit with indexing marks which were later used as guides for the body animation.
So yes, the actor did perform on-camera, including face, and body movements, and deserves most of the credit for the Gollum performance. CGI just changed the body and reanimated some movements.
Definately the Academy has to accomodate this type of performance. Regardless, in this case the actor was superb, CGI or not.
Ricky Martin Is My Cousin (Score:3, Insightful)
* Best Visual Effects
But I think you're missing the point - giving an award to the producers of the Two Towers for best visual effects or some new category involving animation is not the same as giving Serkis an Oscar for his performance. You're suggesting a general Oscar for the entire crew whereas New Line wants Serkis to get an individual performance actor. The question is whether Serkis deserves an Oscar for his performance alone. Now perhaps the addition of best Digital Performance/Inspiration could give Serkis a category that would fit what he did. Since he did have help from the CG team.
But, on the other hand, actors have their costumes selected for them so, in a way, they have a team behind their performances as well. And wasn't Serkis really just placed in a cool costume?
James Brown Is My Cousin (Score:4, Insightful)
Titantic - took the Oscar and was a huge commercial success - maybe you didn't like it but you talked about what the public enjoyed. This was in 1997.
Braveheart - took the Oscar and was also a huge commercial success for the year 1995.
Forrest Gump - another huge commercial success that also won an Oscar - 1994.
I could continue but I think I've made my point. You're claiming that movies which are nominated for best picture haven't been commercial successes. This is incredibly false as I've shown by just showing which huge commercial movies have WON the Best Picture Oscar.
Next time you rant, make a little sense.
Re:Good Stuff doesn't ever get Nominated (Score:2)
I find it hard to believe that anyone would deny that Schindler's list was deserving of its nominations. (or a whole slew of other films)
Guess what, if you are only into geek/fantasy/sci-fi films, you are the minority, and the vast majority (ie. "the masses") don't enjoy them.
That said, do you think Jurrasic Park didn't deserve any of its nominations?
Re:But, LOTR was nominated... (Score:2)