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The Matrix Media Movies

Pushing the Envelope For Matrix Reloaded SFX 306

Posted by CmdrTaco from the dying-to-see-it dept.
BenTheDewpendent writes "I just read Steve Silberman's article on the Matrix Reloaded over at wired. I was only slightly anxious to see it previous to reading the article but what they are able to do technicaly now will put bullet time to shame."
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Pushing the Envelope For Matrix Reloaded SFX More

Pushing the Envelope For Matrix Reloaded SFX

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  • Wrong... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by st0rmcold ( 614019 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @12:01PM (#5686758) Homepage

    I disagree, it will put nothing to shame.

    Do we shame Star Wars, of course not, we put it on a pedestal as an acheivement for it's time, same applies here, just because it's gonna be better dosen't mean it's gonna put anything to shame.

    p.s. The icon for the matrix is lame.
    • Well.. it could be *so* good that our permanent perception of what to expect in a movie changes. Then, anyone with this new perception that hadn't seen the other movie, and sees it for the first time would have it "shamed" for them.

      Or it could be **so** good, to retroactively change our perceptions of movies.

      or it could be ***so*** good, to change our perception of life.

      or it could suck.
    • p.s. The icon for the matrix is lame.

      I concur. It looks like color coordinated suppositories to me.
      Perhaps we can offer some suggetions? Perhaps rob in a trench with glasses looking like Neo? Or even the "falling encryption codes" that everyone relates to the matrix?
    • well, it seems Lucas thinks the original star wars effects are something to be ashamed.

      and et too.

    • Re:Wrong... (Score:3, Funny)

      by nege ( 263655 )
      The icon for the matrix is lame.

      Take two and call me in the morning.

  • When I heard that Matrix 2 was rated "R" ... (Score:3, Offtopic)

    by B3ryllium ( 571199 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @12:01PM (#5686759) Homepage
    ... I naturally assumed that the movie would be chock full of rockin' sex scenes.

    Ah well. I was thinking "18A", not "14A". I'm depressed now.

  • Enter the matrix (Score:2, Insightful)

    by bballad ( 663078 )
    Is it just me or did the graphics on this game seem dated and bad... Not what I had expected from this group I hope the movie isn't as disappointing.

    • Re:Enter the matrix (Score:2, Interesting)

      by ecchi_0 ( 647240 )
      I think it was probably an alpha version - the models seemed very "placeholderish" to me, and you have to take into consideration that the game is being developed to be fully playable on the lowest common denominator - the PS2. While a PS2- only game can be amazing, when the capabilities of all three consoles need to be combined, there can't be as much eyecandy since all three consoles have different hardware. Also, there didn't seem to be any antialiasing, which I'm sure will make it look better. Who cares

    • Re:Enter the matrix (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonvmous Coward ( 589068 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @12:30PM (#5686933)
      "Is it just me or did the graphics on this game seem dated and bad... Not what I had expected from this group I hope the movie isn't as disappointing."

      One of the scenes talked about in the article appeared briefly in the Matrix Superbowl Ad. (sorry, that's the only one I've seen...) He made a comment like "Nobody'll find the transition point from real to CG..."

      That scene stood out in my mind because it looked fake. It really did, there was no "How'd they do that?" when that scene aired. But, I'll tell you all something, there's a very real possibility that the reason it looks fake is that we all know on an instinctual level that a human can't do that. Maybe that'll be the charm of it? I dunno.

      I'm worried, though, that Matrix Reloaded will overdo it with effects like that. If your brain gets into "Man, everything's fake" mode, suddenly anything that's percieved as wrong (whether it really is or not) will bother the viewer. If they're bothered, they're not enjoying it. Explaination that this is taking place inside of a giant video game may not be enough.

      I'm a big fan of subtle effects designed to make something that's not quite plausible happen. Remember Terminator 2? Okay, we don't have the technology to make a 'poly mimetic alloy' that can shapeshift, but we have mercury. Most of us have seen mercury. Seeing it taken a step further into shapeshifting is not totaly unbelievable, and the audience responds with amazement. The battledroids in Episode 1. They have semi-human proportions, but are far too thin to be somebody in a robot costume. Seeing them walking around is a little strainge, but not completely out of the realm of possibility. (as a matter of fact, they have a walking robot today, forget who makes it though...) Anybody remember Lord of the Rings 2? What's his name.. uh.. the long haired dweeb with the semi-automatic bow.. Legolas? Anyway, he mounted his horse in a very peculiar way. He did grabbed it's reins with one arm and with a good yank he rolled up onto the horse's back. That was a digital effect, but most people could see that as a stuntman with a hell of a lot of strength in his arm.

      I guess my point is that it's not so impressive to have someting over the top that is too defiant of reality. I hope they'll keep the audience within the realm of possibilty like the first movie did. If they don't, then they can expect a LOT of nitpicking over the effects.
      • Doh, sorry. Didn't realize you were talking about the game.

  • Other sources (Score:5, Informative)

    by mrpuffypants ( 444598 ) <.moc.liamg. .ta. .stnapyffuprm.> on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @12:02PM (#5686769)
    A few months back Newsweek did a cover story on the Matrix movies.

    read it here [msnbc.com]

  • Bullet time rocked (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Ballresin ( 398599 )
    So I'm totally pumped to see what they do now.

    After watching all the gay movies that copied the Matrix, i'm ready to see em innovate some more.

    Hell, just maybe it will be so cool and complex it won't be on the next GAP commercials before December.
    • Look I'll give up "bullet-time" just for an SFX that makes it look like Keanu is actually acting decently. Then I'd support them using it in a GAP commerical.
    • Hell, just maybe it will be so cool and complex it won't be on the next GAP commercials before December.

      Ya, but you can be sure "Max Payne 2" is going to rip off the name of whatever they use this time.

  • It's the big intrusive flash animation at wired.com that puts all other pop-up ads to shame.

  • Matrix was the next step (Score:4, Interesting)

    by eQuasarus ( 632979 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @12:07PM (#5686809)
    They did the matrix it with so little cash flow compared to what they have this time around. So whose to say that it can't be great again, take another step and but another standard in cinematography. I loved Matrix, it was one fo the few films that kept me really intranced with the movie through all of it. I really hope that Reloaded will do the same, if not i'll be sad
    • Of course, that's what they said about The Phantom Menace. And we all know how that one turned out. Reloaded and Revolutions could very well be fantastic, but more money != greatness.
    • They did Star Wars it with so little cash flow compared to what they have this time around. So whose to say that it can't be great again, take another step and but another standard in cinematography. I loved Star Wars, it was one of the few films that kept me really intranced with the movie through all of it. I really hoped that Phantom and EPII would do the same, if not i'll be sad.
  • You see, for the last 4 years, I've had to eat everything with a knife and fork.

    "There is no spoon" indeed. Bleh. Have you ever tried to eat Grape Nuts with a knife and fork? Or even better, chopsticks???

  • Boobie Time? (Score:5, Funny)

    by darkmayo ( 251580 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @12:08PM (#5686818)
    If there is a Bullet-time shower scene starring Carrie Anne Moss's boobs then this would be the greatest movie ever. Lets seem ILM do that.

  • Now with "Whoavision"... (Score:4, Funny)

    by MeanE ( 469971 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @12:09PM (#5686824) Homepage
    it's like cool and stuff...

  • different day and age (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @12:09PM (#5686825)
    They're going to have to do better than a lame plot and cheese-bag special effects to reach today's sophisticated viewing public, I'll tell you that much for sure!

  • put bullet time to shame? (Score:5, Funny)

    by mog ( 22706 ) <alexmchale@nOspaM.gmail.com> on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @12:21PM (#5686892)
    This time, it takes half an hour for neo to finish saying "whoa".

  • New Matrix Trailer... (Score:5, Informative)

    by JTFritz ( 15573 ) <jeffreytfritz.gmail@com> on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @12:33PM (#5686942) Homepage Journal
    Slightly off-topic, but noteworthy is that the new Matrix Reloaded trailer will air on Sunday during NBC's Arena Football [arenafootball.com] coverage.

    The full story is here: http://www.arenafootball.com/around_the_afl/afl_he adlines/352498.html [arenafootball.com]

    • Rumors say that the 2 minute, 40 second trailer will be released Thursday on the official Matrix website. Luckily, rumors about Matrix stuff usually tend to be correct. Warner Brothers really knows how to use the grassroots fanbase.

  • It did? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @12:36PM (#5686958)
    "the Matrix raised the bar for action films by introducing new levels of realism into stunt work"

    Somebody hasn't seen enough Jackie Chan movies from the seventies and 80s.

    The original Drunken Master. Police Story, SuperCop.

    Actually *doing* the stunts is way more realistic that looking like you're doing it.
    • The dojo scene in The Matrix looked fake because it was so stylish that it was impossible to believe that Ted and Larry Fishburne were really doing it.

      But they were really doing it. And there were long cuts in there. They didn't do the zoomed-all-the-way-in-cut-cut-cut bullshit that you see in every other American action movie. Plus, as someone else has already pointed out, it was the same damn choreographer from those Jackie Chan movies you're raving about.

      It *did* raise the bar. Admit it. The bullet-tim

  • Time for a new "Matrix" icon (Score:5, Funny)

    by Call Me Black Cloud ( 616282 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @12:38PM (#5686962)
    Here are a few starting points for something other than the current use of Alka-Seltzer Cold Plus caplets:

    Not sure what this is [koehntopp.de] about...topless women in leather pants. (SFW)

    What's cooler than a Toyota Matrix [usatoday.com], all decked out in racing stickers?

    Oh yeah, baby...Matrix, the board game [puedo.com]

    How about the Matrix folding bike? Before [dahon.com] or after [dahon.com]

    The Vic-20 fans out there might appreciate a look at the Matrix game [utwente.nl] for that platform.

    Flashback to math class! Matrix multiplication! [sunysb.edu]

    So you see, taco, you're only limited by your imagination. Of course, that could be like saying your writing is limited by your spelling and grammar but still...maybe someone can help you come up with something better.

  • The Campanile Movie (Score:5, Informative)

    by Johnny5_uk ( 24767 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @12:38PM (#5686963)
    Information about the precursor to the bullet time technique (The Campanile Movie), that is mentioned in the Wired article, can be found on this page http://www.debevec.org/Campanile [debevec.org]


    j

  • Having read the article... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Alric ( 58756 ) <slashdot&tenhundfeld,org> on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @12:38PM (#5686964) Homepage Journal
    I am reminded of why I enjoyed the original Matrix so much, why I saw it three times in its opening week.

    I am the only real programmer/computer-nerd/technophile in my circle of friends. The rest live primarily in the realms of literature, audio engineering/theory, and studio art. This fact is only important, because I remember them chiding me about the somewhat cliche plot and often hammy acting in the original Matrix. I couldn't exactly explain to them why I found the movie so thoroughly enjoyable. I didn't claim it to be a masterpiece, but I couldn't make them understand why I could and can still watch the movie so many times and still find it so entertaining.

    If you read the article, you instantly feel the passion for innovation, Gaeta's and the Wachowskis' hunger to create new and beautiful cinematographic standards. And I think I can finally explain that to my snobby friends.

    Sure, the story is a little trite. The acting, while strong in many places, has some definite flaws. But anyone who has a similar desire to understand complex systems and improve upon them, sees these hopes in the original Matrix. They are just a bunch of skilled and creative geeks trying to innovate new and beautiful tools. And as I'm sure many slashdotters understand, that fact makes me feel all warm and cozy inside.

  • 2.5 minutes Matrix Reload Trailer on Sun,4/13/2003 (Score:3, Informative)

    by antdude ( 79039 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @12:38PM (#5686965) Homepage Journal
    Source [matrixfans.net]: Warner Bros. Pictures thinks the Arena Football League and its upcoming film "The Matrix Reloaded" are a perfect match.

    The studio has partnered with NBC Sports to show the trailer for the "Matrix" sequel for the first time on broadcast television during NBC's Arena Football League coverage April 13. The 2-1/2-minute trailer will air at 3 p.m. EDT across all of NBC's regional games. The film opens May 15.

  • My Theory (Score:4, Funny)

    by D3 ( 31029 ) <.moc.liamg. .ta. .gninnehddivad.> on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @12:48PM (#5687015) Journal
    They developed a ton of cool stuff that AGAIN is going to be ripped off by every damned sf-movie, commercial, and friggin Shrek II. Therefore they decided to do both films at once and release them this year. Then they don't have to work so hard to create even better effects in another 4 years from now.

  • Matrix Musings (Score:5, Informative)

    by thatguywhoiam ( 524290 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @12:58PM (#5687075)
    I don't think the Apollo missions were this complicated. Did any of you guys read the article? I mean, it's absolutely crazy....

    See if I can precis here, for you:

    A splinter faction ("ESC") of renegade uber-compositors and animators, originating at Mass.Illusion (founded by Douglas Trumball), led by some guy with the superhero name of Gaeta, has created the first true photogrammetric virtual cinematography technique, using gobs and gobs of technology and expertise. This technology has been put to good use in the new Matrix movies; the team works at a decommissioned 250,000-square-foot hangar in Alameda. Up to 500 artists have been hired.

    Here's an example of what these people are like:
    How deep did the rabbit hole go? A cast of each actor's head was sent to a company called Arius 3D, makers of ultrahigh-resolution scanners employed in 1999 to archive the works of Michelangelo. The Arius scanner is accurate down to 25 microns - the diameter of a mold spore. To get the clothing simulations just right, ESC sent swatches of Reeves' black cassock and Weaving's jacket to a company called Surface Optics, which builds devices to measure a property of light called the bidirectional reflectance distribution function. Surface Optics happened to have one machine on hand scheduled to ship to Lockheed Martin a month later, where it was to be assigned to its usual task: evaluating the reflectivity of paint on stealth bombers.

    Wow. That is... just... nuts. There's other good examples, like the mock highway they built, or the world's biggest motion-capture dojo.

    It's definitely worth reading if you haven't. Particularly interesting are the bits where Gaeta talks about the in-joke he shares with the Wachowskis regarding the potential subversive uses, particularly for the military.. who have already directed DARPA funds towards such and end. (And before you yell about innefectual gov't spending, I'll remind the reader that DARPA gets shit done.) Even the possibility that this work they've done opens the door that much wider for nightmarish Orwellian realities. Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony.

    • For the benefit of those of you who haven't read the article, but still want to get in a.s.a.p. -- how about this little gem?

      The ability to create photorealistic virtual human beings raises unsettling questions, especially in conjunction with the means to cut-and-paste them into any landscape. These questions troubled Gaeta himself so much that, a few years ago, he wrote a letter alerting President Clinton to the fact that such technology could be used for purposes of mass deception. (The letter was never
    • Well, you skipped a step there, ESC came actually from Manex (after some nasty happenings there) which itself came from Mass. Illussion.

      As far as some of the technology, the VFX industry has been scanning stuff for years. Take for example the actors scans for Star Trek 4 The Voyage Home, for the time travelling sequence. Sure maybe the Arius 3D has more resolution but it's not exactly something new.

      Now the extensive use of photogrammetry was certainly something very new, although apparently was used in so
    • You know what the problem is with that artice? Not enought hype.
    • A cast of each actor's head was sent to a company called Arius 3D, makers of ultrahigh-resolution scanners employed in 1999 to archive the works of Michelangelo. The Arius scanner is accurate down to 25 microns - the diameter of a mold spore.

      This strikes me as a little bit weird. This sounds like really super cool tech that is bottlenecked by the cast of the actor's head. Why didnt they just scan the actor's head directly? Wouldnt that have been more accurate?

  • oh, the irony! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by kraksmoka ( 561333 ) <grantstern@gmYEATSail.com minus poet> on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @01:03PM (#5687096) Homepage Journal
    that to build the matrix movies, requires the bros. and co. to BUILD THE MATRIX. or at least develop the type of technology that would make a real matrix VR world a possibility.

    so, by making movies about it, we are slowly bringing the possibility of something like the matrix closer to reality!

    would anyone on /. object to "Matrix" prisons for criminals? what about for the severely physically disabled? just for research?

    • I'm reading Permutation City [amazon.com] right now, in which the dead and disabled have their minds transferred to a computer representation, which is very crude compared to the Matrix. Anyone not dead or disabled kills themselves out of depression, often in less than a day.

      The protagonist wants to do research on his copy though, so he takes away the option of suicide. Is it humane research? Even when the copy is of yourself? I'm not that far in the book yet.

  • Best .. Quote ... Ever ... (Score:5, Funny)

    by mattsucks ( 541950 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @01:05PM (#5687098) Homepage
    from the article:

    In the thick of it, Neo is dancing, chucking black-tied bodies skyward, pivoting around the signpost, and using shoulders as stepping-stones over the raging river of whup-ass.

    If "raging river of whup-ass" isn't on a t-shirt at ThinkGeek [thinkgeek.com] yet, it damn well should be.

    • The full slogan (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      "Forget the can, visit the source - swim my raging river of whup-ass".
  • The in the article above was valid when the story was first postedm, but is no longer. The story is now at http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/content/auto/e paper/editions/monday/metro_state_2.html [statesman.com].

  • whoa.. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by NeoCode ( 207863 ) <unnamedplayer AT rogers DOT com> on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @02:00PM (#5687390)
    for a second I thought I reading an AICN thread. C'mon folks. Its just a movie. No one's forcing you to watch it. If you get put off but the CG, leave it be. Stay home. Please don't start "organic web-shooters robbed me of my childhood" syndrome.
    This trilogy is a unique movie concept that set a precedance on how movies are made. What more can the Wacho bros do?

    Watch the movie if you want and then pass judgement. Otherwise, leave it be.

    • Re:whoa.. (Score:2, Funny)

      by nutbar ( 138893 )
      Its just a movie. No one's forcing you to watch it.

      Well then why do I feel this huge compelling desire to watch it? You don't know what you're talking about. I'm gonna drag my girlfriend along to this and make her watch it - payback for all those "chick flicks" and "dramas" she makes me watch. Muhaha. Revenge is sweet.

  • Matrix game (minor spoilers) (Score:4, Informative)

    by payndz ( 589033 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @02:36PM (#5687567)
    I saw a PS2 demo build of this a couple of days ago, about 95% complete and missing some AI tweaks (the enemies sometimes just stood there as you smacked the shit out of them) and *all* of the FMV.

    Good job, too, on the latter count. The PR guy told us that the game has some *major* spoilers for Reloaded, and he was kind of pissed off at having had to see the footage to do his job! Thankfully he didn't spill his guts to us, though from the name of one of the levels I have a feeling one of the big twists involves Morpheus.

    There was also a real "WTF?" moment as well when he was describing some of the enemies you meet (and the only way to kill them) in the Chateau level (the place with the fancy staircase from the trailers). Is this The Matrix or Buffy?

    Actually, the game itself is like a cross between Xbox Buffy and Max Payne, with some Driver/Chase HQ sections in between. (Reflections supposedly worked on the car physics.) Combat in bullet-time (called 'focus' here, though it works just like in Max Payne, somewhat ironic considering where Rockstar ripped the idea off from!) is a good laugh, and your character picks up skills as they go. And yes, you can run up walls. There's also a neat 'hacking' (ie, cheat) mode where you can find codes online and enter them into the game to download new moves into your character. Looks pretty damn good overall, though hopefully the Xbox version will have slightly less jaggy graphics on some of the levels, as that's what I'll be playing it on!

    All the main Matrix characters supposedly show up in the game, crossing over with events in the film, though I only saw Trinity and Agent Smith. The character models looked good for the most part, though some of the non mo-capped character movements were a bit wobbly.

    The bad news - Jada Pinkett Smith's voice acting was really quite lousy! [Shopgirl monotone] "Let's get the hell out of here." Very wooden. I hope she's not like this throughout the film!

    Since the film and game come out on the same day, I'd strongly recommend seeing the film before playing the game if you want to avoid having the ending of Reloaded spoiled...

  • Special effects will kill most movies (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Geekbot ( 641878 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @02:39PM (#5687605)
    It's not a matter of how good the effects are. It's a matter of how they are used. Special effects should help you see something that is either impossible or difficult to film and make you believe it. The special effects in the Matrix pulled you in. In their corner was the fact that they were in VR most of the time so a lot of stuff was possible that was unlikely in the real world. However, for an example of effects killing a movie, look at Daredevil. Not that there wasn't enough wrong already, but they made this almost ordinary human jumping around like a a cartoon. I don't care how much the effects made it look just like Ben. He didn't move like a human, the character didn't move like the comic book character, and the results showed a reality that was far too seperated from what the audience could stomach.

    I think the Matrix movie hinted at the obvious pitfalls of special effects when they described the first Matrix, a world so idyllic that it was unbelievable to the point that humans couldn't accept it. Those words may be prophetic because if Matrix 2 comes up with a bunch of effects that constantly remind me that I'm watching CG movie instead of watching something that might really happen, I wont accept it much either.
    • It's not a matter of how good the effects are. It's a matter of how they are used.

      This is all too true. I remeber catching Jurassic park in the theaters, opening day no less. I came out of the theater still wondering when the movie was going to start, it was little more than a, "hey look at what we can do" movie. They just killed any possibility of a plot, and relied on the graphics to bring the money in. And no, I've never read the book, I tried after seeing the movie, but I just couldn't get into
  • ...what they are able to do technicaly now will put bullet time to shame.

    Am I the only one hoping for "breast-jiggle time?"

  • SFX = Sound Effects (Score:3, Informative)

    by CheeseburgerBlue ( 553720 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2003 @03:39PM (#5687981) Homepage Journal
    The title should read VFX, not SFX, because we're dealing with VISUAL effects here. Dagnabit.

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