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More Thoughts On How to Wire Senegal 182

Posted by timothy from the but-voip-is-unamerican dept.
An anonymous reader submits "Last month Slashdot published a story on the Peace Corps' plans to wire Senegal. Now Peace Corps Online has published an article by a volunteer who taught computers in West Africa for two years who recommends that the White House's Digital Freedom Initiative abandon the Western paradigm of 'a computer on every desk' and borrow a lesson from telephony in third-world countries. Since a residential telephone line is a luxury item in West Africa, the 'communication center' has flourished as a private business even in the smallest of towns where it generates profits while sharing the high cost of telecommunication among the whole community. This user model coupled with deregulation of VoIP can be the key to implementation of computer technology in poor countries."
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More Thoughts On How to Wire Senegal More

More Thoughts On How to Wire Senegal

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  • No kidding (Score:4, Insightful)

    by toygeek ( 473120 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @06:05PM (#5731542) Journal
    Trying to put a computer in every home? Try getting clean water in every home first. For now lets work on that. We can put in computers once we can help them READ.
    • See I thought the same thing. Why would you put a computer in every home if said home does not have the power to run the machine, a phone line for basic modem connection or say water to drink so you can live and use the computer. Reading is a good point also.
    • I agree. Let's get priorities straight.
      This kind of thinking strikes me as some kind of reverse cargo cult [brocku.ca].
      That is, the fallacy that if we give a society the implements of technology, then said society will act like a modernized society, improving conditions, because conditions are better in industrialized, modern societies than non-modern societies.

    • Re:No kidding (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Daniel_Staal ( 609844 ) <DStaal@usa.net> on Monday April 14, 2003 @06:27PM (#5731723)

      And what better way to help them read but to give them the Internet?

      Seriously. Do a google search for home-made water filters, see if there is anything they could use. Or on learning to read.

      Info can help anyone. They may not use it the way you expect them to. How about using it to work around the corruption in the local school system? Or to just decrese its cost? (A good high school may not even be avalible in some villages.) Let them decide if it is worth using.

      • And what better way to help them read but to give them the Internet?

        ... they could practice up on their grammar by hitting the chatrooms, you know, where the intelligentsia gather, d00d.

      • Re:No kidding (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Dark Lord Seth ( 584963 )

        Seriously. Do a google search for home-made water filters, see if there is anything they could use. Or on learning to read.

        Your point being? I can google for the construction of thermonuclear weapons, does this automagically mean that I can build one from stuff sold in local stores? I can already imagine myself going to the supermarket for some stuff... "Excuse me, where do you people keep the weapons grade plutionium? Do I get bulk rates for orders over 200 kilograms?" I somehow doubt that would work

        • Re:No kidding (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Daniel_Staal ( 609844 )

          Give them both, preferably. I'm just saying the Internet isn't as worthless as you seem to think it is. Sheesh, follow my advice and most of the links you will find will need nothing more complicated than a plastic cup to contain the filter in.

          As for learing to read on a written medium: most villiages will probably have at least one person who is mildly literate. Give them access, and they can (and will, since it will be something they can sell to the rest) improve their reading. They may even teach o

          • Give them both, preferably. I'm just saying the Internet isn't as worthless as you seem to think it is. Sheesh, follow my advice and most of the links you will find will need nothing more complicated than a plastic cup to contain the filter in.

            And where, pray tell, would they get a plastic cup? Mind you, were talking mostly about people who live in mud huts in a country most likely torn by civil war, dictatorships and former colonization. The internet isn't worthless, it's a great place for exchanging

            • And where, pray tell, would they get a plastic cup? Mind you, were talking mostly about people who live in mud huts in a country most likely torn by civil war, dictatorships and former colonization. The internet isn't worthless, it's a great place for exchanging ideas and opinions (like what I'm doing right now) but a person whose dying of hunger, thirst and an unknown disease couldn't care less about another person's opinions, even if he could read them.

              That's the most complicated item, and can be subs

    • For one thing, you're assuming getting computers trades off with water or reading. This seems false; the goals can coexist.

      Second, information technology might help people communicate better and share info. They could share ideas on living more sustainably; get together and build businesses.
    • Interesting point. On an individual level it may be more important for someone to be able to read, hell I'd say it's pre-requisite for the command line, at least ;) This, however makes no difference from a policy perspective. Litteracy in the USA & Europe is not 100%, yet there would be screams of protest if all Comp Sci teaching was banned until 100% litteracy was reached. There are those in dirt poor countries who are smart and educated. They may lack money. This 'elite' (for want of a better word,

    • Re:No kidding (Score:5, Insightful)

      by cperciva ( 102828 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @06:37PM (#5731795) Homepage
      It's not quite that simple. Internet access has some demonstrated benefits in the third world -- if a community has access to the internet, they immediately gain access to information which would be too expensive to provide them with otherwise. Information like how to recognize and treat disease, when and how best to plant their crops, et cetera.

      Putting a computer in every home in the third world is absolutely unnecessary at this point; but putting a computer in every community has benefits far exceeding those which could be obtained by spending a similar amount on a water supply.
      • And don't forget useful information like how much my basket of tomatoes sells for in the city. If I don't know, then the middleman gives me as little as possible and I have no way to know how much I'm being ripped off.

        I read something about this happening in India when cellphones were distributed to villages. The farmers started getting more for their crops because they could check the rates at the market and demand more from the middle-men.

        And to the bit about giving them food, water, and literacy firs

    • Re:No kidding (Score:3, Insightful)

      by aengblom ( 123492 )
      Trying to put a computer in every home? Try getting clean water in every home first. For now lets work on that. We can put in computers once we can help them READ.

      This is such a tired argument. Yes, choosing between water and net access, I'd choose water. But, there is a balance.

      Just because there are homeless in the U.S., doesn't mean we should all give up Internet access. (We should find a way to fix that problem, but...)

      Guess what, the portion of the population that CAN read can benefit through Inter

    • Band-aid approaches don't work (Score:4, Insightful)

      by siskbc ( 598067 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @06:56PM (#5731913) Homepage
      Trying to put a computer in every home? Try getting clean water in every home first. For now lets work on that. We can put in computers once we can help them READ.

      As much as I applaud foreign aid, the way we've been doing it DOESN'T WORK. When we go in and feed people, guess what happens when we leave (and leave we will!)? They starve again. If anything, they're worse off, because they've gotten used to a steady stream of aid.

      This is why we need to educate them, and computers is a good way to provide maximum education/$. Right now, in the third world, there is no meritocracy - so there are, quite likely, very intelligent people who don't have any means of improving themselves. However, they could do very well with some investment in education in these countries.

      So, what we need is to educate the populace while we feed them. Give them a chance to learn either a trade skill, or to go to university. Then, the educated can help rebuild the country. Admittedly, computers aren't the sole answer to this, but it would be a part. Those who have the intelligence and literacy would be able to teach themselves, and as other posters have said, Google is a better textbook than nothing for schools that lack resources.

      Yes, Africa needs food....but it might need civil engineers even more. That's why we need to work really hard to educate them. If you wait to educate until no one is starving, no one will ever be educated and everyone will starve when we stop spoon-feeding them. That's why it has to be a concerted effort.

      • Re:Band-aid approaches don't work (Score:4, Informative)

        by Daniel_Staal ( 609844 ) <DStaal@usa.net> on Monday April 14, 2003 @07:28PM (#5732124)

        So, what we need is to educate the populace while we feed them. Give them a chance to learn either a trade skill, or to go to university. Then, the educated can help rebuild the country. Admittedly, computers aren't the sole answer to this, but it would be a part. Those who have the intelligence and literacy would be able to teach themselves, and as other posters have said, Google is a better textbook than nothing for schools that lack resources.

        I grew up with my dad in USAID [usaid.gov]. He still works for them. That is what the US does, feed and teach, try to build the infrastructure. Or at least, what we try to do. It doesn't always work of course, but usually it does. At least until the next civil war. It is hard to get critical mass on these types of projects. At least, with the funds we give our forgein aid projects.

      • As much as I applaud foreign aid, the way we've been doing it DOESN'T WORK. When we go in and feed people, guess what happens when we leave (and leave we will!)? They starve again.

        On the contrary, what I've always been lead to understand is that most starvation is due to temporary, local situations--war, natural disaster, whatever--so most food aid is to communities that can normally feed themselves but that need aid to survive through just a few months.

        --Bruce Fields

    • Some specifics about Senegal (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      It's certainly true that people can get too carried away with high-tech needs when low-tech needs are unmet, and I agree about the importance of health issues. But it's also true that westerners make too many blanket assumptions about Africa. Look at Senegal specifically -- here's some good info: these stats [un.org]. All those comments below about how they can't read over there are pretty uninformed. Literacy is over 50%.
    • Actually in a third world nation the best thing is to get clean water to every community. A good public well, fountain or aquaduct type sytem will do them more good than indoor plumbing at present.

      Along the same lines, any computing provided to the community should be cheap for the community, therefore a multitasking solution with accounts for each person in a central location is a bettr solution than a computer in each home.

  • Yeah, but... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Who wants to look at porn in public? (Unless of course, that's your thing...)

  • erm.. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    In impoverished countries, why don't they just feed these people instead of trying to get them to try q2 deathmatch? Who cares about this shit?

    I'd say FEED ME before FRAG ME any day.

    • Dude i have been to this country and i HIGHLY recommend some friggin running hot water in the hotels before net connectivity..... Possibly servering also a good steak that the waiters might not think was the local canine might also be a good idea.... (honest post)

  • How about tackling that AIDS thing first... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I swear, the priorities of Governments...
    • First, schmirst. I'm guessing that information on AIDS would be one of the most important things that an Internet link would be piping.

      AIDS is a huge problem in Africa. It's also a very complex social problem that isn't going to fit well into the "spend X dollars and it's fixed" mold. Education is a major key to reducing the problem. The Internet is a conduit for information. QED.
      • I have no figures, but AIDS is NOT a big problem in WEST Africa - its a big problem in East and South Africa, both of which are as far away culturally and physically from Senegal is as Mexico from new York.

        As for the "Let them read first" argument - litteracy rate is higher in Senegal than in the US!

        And others have said it here first "In Africa, piped water is often a bigger health risk than a well"

        This is why America's assistance is as much of a problem as it is a help - you have no grasp of the prob

  • How about... (Score:2, Flamebait)

    by The Bungi ( 221687 )
    ... we try to wire rural Wisconsin? Or Alaska? Or large swaths of the deep south?

    And of course this type of thing begs the question - do they want to be "wired"?

    • How about we wire 'em up and ask them?
    • Or large swaths of the deep south?

      Cause we don't take kindly to this techno garbage down 'round here. Heck, we cant even speel or pre-nance half of these big 'ole con-peuder words anyhow. If it don't done help me get the back 40 plowed any none sooner, I'se dont want it!
    • And of course this type of thing begs the question - do they want to be "wired"?

      This got pegged as flamebait, but the comment is an important issue. We assume that these remote villages want to be wired and sit on eBay looking for Every Time I Die t-shirts. Bullshit. They might just want to be villages. We colonized these places under the pretense of modernizing the "heathens". Guess what? They didn't want our help! Additionally, a lot of them were doing just fine. For example, the empire of Mali had the

  • Amen (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Gefiltefish11 ( 611646 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @06:08PM (#5731569)

    A computer on every desk does indeed sound like somebody has warped priorities.

    Let's look into getting the infant mortality below 20% first.

    • Re:Amen (Score:1, Flamebait)

      by geekoid ( 135745 )
      yes, and the best way to do that is to keep them ill informed.

    • Let's look into getting the infant mortality below 20% first.

      No, let's look into educating people in methods of preventing unwanted pregnancy, reduce the birth rate to a more manageable level, say about 4 kids per women average or maybe 3.

      Then you worry about reducing infant mortality when there's a fair chance the family will be able to feed him/her. With 8-9 childrens, it's almost normal that a few of them die. They rarely have the resource to sustain 8 or 9 kids.

      Alex

    • Re:Amen (Score:3, Insightful)

      by silas_moeckel ( 234313 )
      Can be get the birth rate down while we do that? You have to have an infant mortality rate of 20% when you have pople having 10 children. Think Zero to low population growth this is what gets you into problems of starving less mouthes to feed = more food up to a point. Of course you need to couple this with taking care of the AIDs infection rate. How about handing out condoms, norplant getting a few computers in and showing them how to do the fresh water think in 3 easy lessons on cdrom?

      Oh for the reli
    • Let's look into getting the infant mortality below 20% first.

      Careful at what depth you address things, many societies have addressed infant mortality with larger sized families. A strong immunization program is much easier to implement than is a family planning initiative. The former can occur in a generation, the latter may take generations. What may result is a population boom with limited food sources. Environmental equilibrium can be subtle, but it is there.

  • Ring Around Africa? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by wfmcwalter ( 124904 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @06:10PM (#5731594) Homepage
    I see from the article that the trunk connectivity comes from an undersea fiberoptic cable. I think I remember (perhaps from that Neal Stephenson WIRED article?) about a fat copper cable that folks were putting around Africa, on land, which I think was called Ring Around Africa. I think I also remember there being problems with folks stealing parts of it (as it represented a decent value for copper recycling) and risking their lives due to the current.

    Does anyone remember this (or is it just my imagination), and if so, what became of it?

    • I think I remember (perhaps from that Neal Stephenson WIRED article?) about a fat copper cable that folks were putting around Africa, on land, which I think was called Ring Around Africa.

      I believe they were calling it the "Ring of Fire" and it was Lucent who was putting most of it up. But I haven't heard anything on that in a couple of years.

  • Article Text -- preemptive post (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Every city is a village: Recommendations for the Digital Freedom Initiative

    By Trevor Harmon

    April 6, 2003

    Since 1961, the Peace Corps has been sending volunteers to Ghana, West Africa, to work in education, business development, and environmental protection projects. Most of these volunteers work in remote areas where poverty is extreme and the small rural communities have the greatest need for teachers, engineers, and other skilled professionals. I was surprised, then, when I learned that the Peace Corp

    • You might like to know a little background to the reason the 6 PCs were in the school mentioned in the article.

      The Ghanaian Ministry of Education contracted a British company, Philip Harris International, to set up a network of Science Resource Centres (SRC) in Ghana at a cost of some GBP19.75 million. The project involved the provision of science equipment, chemicals, PCs and even datalogging equipment to about 20% of Ghana's seondary schools.

      Each SRC was supplied with a 45-seater school bus to transpor
  • Pretty soon everyone in the world can look at big busty mommas abusing farm animals!
  • That is what it smells of....

  • My vision: (Score:5, Funny)

    by phyrestang ( 638793 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @06:16PM (#5731648) Homepage
    I imagine seeing children in tattered clothing, sitting reading /. complaining about "that damn microsoft"

  • Priorities (Score:2, Insightful)

    by rf0 ( 159958 )
    Computer on every desk? How about getting everyone a desk first? Or prehaps decent housing to put the desk in? Or decent medical care? Or water and food? Surely that sort of thing would come first?

    rus
    • Come on, to do the things you mention requires an improvement in the economy, and a computer is the perfect way to do that. As well as displaying language so they can practise reading, there are an endless amount of websites which teach information and skills.

      In first world countries, putting on your CV "I learned it on the internet" won't hold much water, but in Ghana where the average person is less science-savvy than your 6 year old kid, it will bring them forward in leaps and bounds.

      There are endless
      • "but in Ghana where the average person is less science-savvy than your 6 year old kid, it will bring them forward in leaps and bounds."

        I heartily agree with your overall point, but I think you got a bit carried away here in your metaphor there. I mean what does a 6-year old know? All I remember was something about dinosaurs being really huge, big deal.

        Also I think you underestimate the knowledge of the average Ghanian. They may not know the theory of Mendelian genetics or whatever, but you bet they know h

  • Not just in West Africa, but worldwide... (Score:5, Informative)

    by J.J. ( 27067 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @06:23PM (#5731696)
    I just returned from a three-week backpacking tour of Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Panama. In general, they're not in as bad of shape as Africa, but some parts still suffer the same difficulities with access and utility availability.

    I told folks I'd keep in touch via e-mail, but was careful to always caveat that with "as long as I can find internet access". Next time, I'll drop the caveat. Places with phones have an "internet cafe". And they're often full.

    In my constant pursuit of fluent spanish, I thought I'd have to find another bilingual computer professional to learn the spanish translation of computer-centric terms like e-mail, web, internet, scanner, mouse, instant messaging and the like. If you find yourself in the same situation, ask a kid on the bus. The older generations aren't there yet, but the kids have it down. I was amazed.

    The Economist did a good article recently on [somewhat] related issues of access, business and money. Instead of working to deliver telephones, they give an account of the beer man. It's a good read. Trucking in Cameroon [economist.com]

    Cheers,
    J.J.
    • Indeed! Thoughout my travels in Asia I have found that Internet cafes function as a social gathering place for people to hang out, meet others, and exchange ideas. This is exactly the kind of thing people need more of in remote and isolated settings such as Africa. There are COUNTLESS uses of the internet than just posting to /.! --> tracking the weather if you are a farmer, keeping up to date on the news, contacting specialists such as doctors, facilitating growth of local industry - the possibilities
      • Exactly. Moving people beyond a subsistence level means putting them in touch with markets to sell what they make. The Internet gives these folks the connections and the market information they need to function effectively in the modern world. Any good farmer needs to know what he/she can sell and for how much.

        So give them a water filter - what happens when the filter expires? Given them another? What have you accomplished?

        Give them access to knowledge and markets and you open up export driven grow

  • Computers in Africa (Score:4, Insightful)

    by chunkwhite86 ( 593696 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @06:26PM (#5731714)
    Having lived in Africa for a short period, I can say that "a computer in every home" is NOT what those people need.

    To repeat some of the previous posts, they need clean water, food, medical supplies, and other basic humanitarian goods.

    This is not to say that they have no use for computers. For this is certainly not the case. Something along the lines of an internet cafe (but not so trendy) is what they would benefit from. Just as the article says, the people can share the cost of an inexpensive comm link. Combine this with a few donated PC's running Linux and bingo - the towns people will begin to become computer literate.

    These people have a genuine desire to learn, but things like this must fit within the economic and humanitarian reality of their locale. A "community" net enabled PC would fit the bill nicely.
    • You do know that Africa is a big place, don't you? Lots of different countries, loads of different peoples, languages, ecosystems and climates and everything else?

      Perhaps there might be some Africans who need one thing, and others who need something else?
  • where X = 0
    Third world countries + Computers + Electricty(X) = Not posible
    ... isn't that one of the defining features of a third would nation?

  • stop patronizing Africans (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tintillon ( 665944 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @06:36PM (#5731785)
    I was in Tanzania last month. As the story says is the case in W Africa, community internet access is very popular. Its patronizing and simplistic to assume that just because these are poor people, they have no other needs than food/water (as other posters have commented). If nothing else, in the Maasai village I was staying in, people were using the internet to get farming/weather information that was otherwise unavailable. More relevantly, they were trying to contact the Houston company (http://www.tgts.com) that was shooting the leopards, lions and buffaloes on their land without permission. They were also starting their own school, using internet as a tool. All of this can be seen in a community context, which might explain why community-level internet access might be successful.

    Done right, technology will provide the information that will allow people to help themselves - much better than the normal aid dependency syndrome.

    Reply to another comment: I don't think Quake is so exciting for Maasai who have to kill a lion with a sharp stick before being allowed to marry.

    • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @06:51PM (#5731876)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • BZZZT wrong. Sorry, your friend Martin is mistaken. Africa's problems are caused by the white man. Period. If you think otherwise I suggest a few courses in race relations at a nationally known university.

      • George Washington (Score:4, Insightful)

        by cybercuzco ( 100904 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @07:51PM (#5732324) Homepage Journal
        Every time i read something like this i think of George Washington, the man who would not be king. The more and more we see of democracies, the more we see how hard it is to start them up (at least starting through a violent revolution) without the leader of that revolution seizing power and smashing the democracy. We can thank Washington for our stable democracy(the man, not the city ;-) .

    • Re:stop patronizing Africans (Score:5, Insightful)

      by xcomputer_man ( 513295 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @06:59PM (#5731925) Homepage
      I completely agree.

      I am from West Africa (Nigeria in particular) and it irks me every time I see one of these morons talk about the place like it's a hapless mass of poor, depraved and illiterate morons fighting with each other all the time. It is for the same reason I refused to go see Bruce Willis' Tears of the Sun.

      You only need to get to some areas of Lagos where there are approximately 5 to 10 cybercafes PER BLOCK to understand what the hell is going on. Since the launch of mobile telecoms in Nigeria, the country has had by far the fastest cellphone industry growth rate ever recorded, injecting $1 billion into the economy within the first year alone, and leaving the 2 or 3 providers struggling under demand.

      The point is people need to communicate. Africans are a very smart set of people (just compare the average knowledge/IQ of an american high-schooler to that of a Nigerian high-schooler and you'll see what I'm talking about). And even the illiterate ones still frequent cybercafes to send email and use VoIP phones to communicate all over the world.

      I could slap the face of anyone who makes retarded comments as "let's teach them to READ first" or rubbish like that.
      • - That was something I forgot to put in my comment: everyone in Tanzania seemed to be using cellphones - for text messages rather than phone conservations. So much for not being able to read!!! A great case of appropriate technology working well. Also its nice to see that an industry that has exploited Africa (those dreadful mines for those semiconductor minerals) actually benefitting normal Africans. I think the idiots you were referring to forget that English/French is often an African's THIRD language.
        • I don't even seem to be able to manage one - "conversations"
        • I am from Tanzania, so this caught my attention.

          I was in Tanzania last December, and like you said EVERYONE seemed to have a cellphone. Many more people than have a landline even.

          It is interesting to speculate how these technologies will play out in less developed countries(i.e will dialup ever become popular or will they "leapfrog" to another form of access)?
    • Sharp stick? Did you say SHARP?

      Someone will pay dearly for this...

    • This is absolutely true.

      I only stayed in Dar Es Salaam, but it seemed every other block I went there was an internet cafe. The price was about 1$ for an hour of access and they always seemed to be packed.

      Of course the connection was a bit slow to say the least, but perfectly sufficient if you primarily wanted to e-mail.

      There are many misconceptions on the state of contemporary Africa.
    • Nine out of ten lions prefer Quake to a sharp stick in the eye.
  • Let's take care of rural america first..

  • Joko Clubs (Score:2, Informative)

    by mike3k ( 574665 )
    Senegal has a successful chain of cybercafes, the Joko Clubs, where internet access is available to everyone. It was started by a popular Senegalese singer, not by the government or outsiders.

    • Re:Joko Clubs (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Having lived in Africa most of my life, I'd like to point out just how silly the parent's viewpoint is.

      It is perfectly reasonable to give them what resources we can; just because
      they are short on food doesn't mean that they can't use the internet to
      perhaps announce what's happening to food shipments (bandits, floods, bad
      roads or any other reason) or to request what's needed most or even to try
      to up revenue (such as tourism) or improve financial communications.

      The funny thing: most food shortages in Africa

  • The comunity "Computer & Comunications" idea.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nickgrieve ( 87668 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @06:48PM (#5731859) Journal
    The community "Computer & Communications" idea is fantastic, not only does the cost get shared on a user pays basis, it also brings together like minded individuals where they can teach/learn from each other, rather than struggle to learn alone.

  • Food IS more important, but ... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dimension6 ( 558538 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @06:52PM (#5731883)
    Upon reading many peoples' response to the wiring of 3rd world countries, I don't think that everyone is considering all of the benefits that the Internet may bring to the people (mostly indirectly). Regarding business Internet usage, there is no denying that the Internet has proven to be an indispensable tool that both saves money and time in the long run. I think that setting up Senegalese companies with connected computers will help out the people in the long run. With proper communication, it will be possible to give food to those who really need it with far more efficiency.

    Contrary to what many of you believe, Senegal is not one of the most impoverished nations in Africa (try Sierra Leone)...

  • Until ... (Score:2, Funny)

    by torpor ( 458 )
    ... they start getting spam for dick extenders, realise just how pitiful the rest of the world is, and go back to beating the shit out of each other over which goat pissed where.

    Well, maybe Microsoft can save them.

  • for a secong there (Score:4, Funny)

    by geekoid ( 135745 ) <dadinportlandNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Monday April 14, 2003 @07:09PM (#5731987) Homepage Journal
    I thought someone was trying to wire seagulls.
  • This user model coupled with deregulation of VoIP can be the key to implementation of computer technology in poor countries.

    Who is regulating VoIP? To what specific problems does this phrase apply?

    I don't see where the Digital Freedom Initiative wants to put a computer on every desk. In fact, their agenda sounds pretty much the same as the proposed alternative, namely to leverage the Internet cafes already there.

    When you're talking about computers in Africa, every city is a village.

    This is a nice li

    • To answer one of your questions: Who is regulating VoIP? To what specific problems does this phrase apply?

      The governments of the countries concerned are, quite often, regulating voice over IP, in many cases along with things like internet through satellite connections.

      I was down there (Uganda, Kenya) a few months ago looking at some projects, and government regulation is a significant limitation on the spread of new technologies. In many African countries, the government phone companies have a monopol

  • Please don't consider this a flame, JUST because I'm opposing the view of deregulation of the VoIP.. regulation may be a necessity especially in a poverty stricken country like Senegal (with the proper and honest officials, of course)..

    Regulating standards, prices, services, etc.. is crucial to build, and sustain, technological services in a third-world country.

    Regulation is also important to prevent any companies from monopolizing. It may not be necessarily a problem in the beginning, but nonetheless thi
  • Private aid organizations that do not rely on the government can see the wisdom in having a communications center and a limited number of computers, telephones, faxes, etc. This growing business allows these Africans to sustain themselves and develop their own economy. They are NOT inferior people who need your charity. They need your respect and willingness to trade with them in a free market economy. They need you to stop thinking that only more welfare (i.e. foreign aid) will end their troubles.

    So

  • With ubiquitous PCs throughout Africa, hopefully it won't be long before those Nigerian spammers and their ilk start accidentally sending their emails to each other.
  • Let's give them Quake 3 Deathmatches. Fuck all that do gooder shit and put up a goddamn Starbucks.
  • Most of the commentators seem to think that Senegal is some kind of totally under-developped country were people are starving. A quick look at the CIA factbook might show you that although it is certainly not the consumer paradise that the USA and Europe are, at least they already have:
    "communications:
    general assessment: good system
    domestic: above-average urban system; microwave radio relay, coaxial cable and fiber-optic cable in trunk system
    international: 4 submarine cables; satellite earth station - 1
  • I bet ppl there is more worried about eating then sending e-mail. Its ridiculous talking about wiring a country where 87.6% of the population lives with less then a dolar/day.
  • There must be oil in Senegal to justify this... next up, liberation of the Senegalese to make safe democracy! Brought to you by the good folks at Haliburton (sic), your friend Rupert Murdoch at News Corp., and benevolent computer genius Bill Gates! :)

  • Technology, not toilets! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by watchful.babbler ( 621535 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @07:44PM (#5732267) Homepage Journal
    Yes, it's a snide title to the post (and for that I apologize). I've spent some time in Africa -- not a great amount of time, but almost all of it was spent "en buisson," out in the tiny villages beyond the hub cities. I think that anyone who insists that indoor plumbing be piped to every village and town is ignoring the fact that developing nations need engines of growth, not creature comforts.

    Folks who say "let's get infant mortality below 20% first [slashdot.org]" may think they're being hard-headed (Senegal has an infant mortality of 62/1000, just to clear up that point), but the truth is that they're woefully behind the times in development economics.

    Developing nations are hardly the hellholes we often think them to be: life there isn't as pleasant as our own upper-middle-class lives, but it's not a constant struggle for survival in most nations. (Places like Sierra Leone excepted, of course.) People in developing nations may not have every modern convenience known to Americans, but -- thanks in no small part to the Peace Corps and other NGOs -- they at least have acceptable levels of sanitation available to them. (And am I the only one who hears the faint strains of "Rule Britannia" in those statements -- a kind of disdain for those poor savage souls who can't even be relied upon to clean themselves properly?)

    What developing nations need is capital for their domestic entrepreneurs, and telecommunications is a critical part of that. One of the great success stories in development economics is the Grameen Bank [grameen-info.org], a microcredit bank that lends to impoverished rural dwellers. One of their success stories was a loan to a group of women who created a cell cooperative: they would rent celltime to other villagers, allowing the locals access to telecommunications without having to purchase unnecessary private lines.

    For another example, in the West African nation of Mali, the Peace Corps has helped set up a trading cooperative for artisans across the nation -- artists ship their goods to a store that caters to both walk-in trade (mostly from French tourists) and international dealers. They even have a website (which, of course, I don't have the URL to ATT) that you can order from. Imagine how much more effective such networks could be if locals could communicate immediately across the region.

    Furthermore, telecommunications give developing nations access to services not easily available -- local businesspeople could not only use Excel to keep track of their cash flows (as opposed to having to hand-rule ledger books in many rural areas), but they could get immediate access to groups and individuals to help them with their businesses. Instead of PCVs spending their two years giving lectures on basic accounting principles, small businesspeople could get that information over the Web, leaving the Peace Corps to stay hands-on.

    Finally, anytime you can expand opportunities for people in the villages, you're doing a service. The traditional Harris-Todaro migration model [augustana.edu] effectively demonstrates how unemployed underclasses and grey markets develop in urban areas within developing nations. If you can increase educational and economic opportunities for people in rural areas, you decrease the wage disparity between the two sectors, and lower the explosive demographic pressure that characterizes so many developing-world cities. Arguably, technology can also have a feedback effect: as literacy and basic education is necessary to take advantage of the benefits of the telecommunications centers, the incentive to obtain that education grows.

    So, there you go: some perfectly rational, hard-headed, economically-grounded reasons to give the developing world computers. It comes down to simply giving these people the power to effect change in their own lives: they're as capable and able as any of us, they just need the infrastructure to take advantage of it.

  • If they can't pay they don't deserve it

    /troll

  • Give 'em a shitload of amphetamines 'n' coffee.
  • Hmm, A few years back I remember a project to get the Airport at Dakar connected to the Sita network. (More precisely, there was a redoing of the worldwide network topology).

    Which, too bad they, the Senagalese(sp?), couldn't somehow tap into that network...matter fact, The whole Sita network that connected all the world's major airports was sort of a "secret" access to the Internet. In theory, at say Bejing's airport, or even Riyahd (or pick any country that controls internet access), one could get unres
  • More Thoughts On How to Wire Senegal

    Oh come on. Just go to Western Union and be done with it.
  • Isn't it more important for underdeveloped countries to have a solid underlying infrastructure? I mean, many such countries do not even have adequate water and healthcare facilities. The citizens need food, not advanced technology at this stage. It is more important for the world community to help these countries get on their feet before trying to wire them. How do you expect a country where telephones are a luxury to even think about the Internet?
  • You need to wire West African countries to get rich now?
  • We could use AOL disks placed strategically and bounce laser beams off them. Better then 802.11
  • We do this in the US, too. If you haven't been since highschool, take a visit to your local public library: even in small towns there are often a half dozen PCs or Macs set up for the express purpose of browsing the 'net. You'd be shocked at how busy they are. Way back in the '70s, there were "public terminals" set up in places like Berkely... kiosks where people off the street could get and recieve email and participate on messageboards. This really helped to prime the pump for the personal computer revolu

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