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Television Media

ReplayTV and TiVo Compared 328

Posted by michael from the comparison-shopping dept.
j0atz writes "The New York Times is running a story today that, while it's a bit redundant in the beginning and a bit short on technical details later, gives a rundown the newest features for ReplayTV (numbered 4000 or above) and TiVO (Series2); basically, you can program your favorite DVR to record a show from a remote computer or from another (same-brand) DVR. Along with that, you can stream MP3's and pictures with TiVo now. Still...I'd much rather use something like FreeVo or MythTV and actually burn my shows to cd, stream whatever I want, etc, etc."
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ReplayTV and TiVo Compared More

ReplayTV and TiVo Compared

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  • Tivo can burn too (Score:5, Interesting)

    by shokk ( 187512 ) <ernieoporto @ y a h o o .com> on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:53AM (#6068534) Homepage Journal
    From what I understand, you can hack your Tivo series 1 to enable video extraction which you can then burn to DVD. That isn't much more of a hack than a FreeVo, and I expect that the schedule handling of the TiVo is much more advanced than what you will get out of the free systems, albeit much pricier.

    • Re:Tivo can burn too (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      TyStudio [sourceforge.net] does that.

    • You "can" do it with a series 1 tivo as well. There is an option to "Archive" a show, mainly meaning to VHS tape. But I have had it go into my video capture card and store it that way on my computer for later burning.

      Not the best method, but it works.

      • Re:Tivo can burn too (Score:3, Informative)

        by crow ( 16139 )
        Right, but you're seriously degrading the quality doing it that way. You get an extra round of compression artifacts, not to mention noise from the digital-analog-digital conversion.

        • Re:Tivo can burn too (Score:2, Informative)

          by drwtsn32 ( 674346 )
          I've extracted/re-encoded several times without any appreciable degredation in quality. Just record your shows at high/best quality and you shouldn't have a problem.

    • Re:Tivo can burn too (Score:4, Informative)

      by akb ( 39826 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @01:03PM (#6069141)
      To do this on a Tivo you have to remove the hard drive and put it in a PC, futz with it and put it back in. If you have a series 2 Tivo you can setup the net connection to download the movies over the network but its not a friendly process. To download shows from a series 1 you have to add an gray market network card.

      With ReplayTV you can just use DV Archive [sourceforge.net] to download shows from it. Friendly interface, no warranty voiding required.

  • What about the PSX! (Score:2, Informative)

    by rkz ( 667993 )
    They aint the only two you know :P Over here in the UK Sky makes a PVR called sky+ I'd hazard a guess that its probably better than TIVO and ReplayTV, but the PSX takes the crown with its DVD-+R
    • It's not available!

      And you'd hazard wrong on that Sky+ box. It's noticably inferior to both TiVo and Replay.

      You also forgot the various cable box PVRs that are appearing, Microsoft's UltimateTV, Dish Network's Dishplayer (which is the most widely used PVR), and quite a few others that are actually available. Oh, and there's Toshiba's upcoming (ie - not available) PVR with a rewriteable DVD drive that uses TiVo software.

      Thing is, TiVo is better software-wise than any of them. Replay has had ethernet longe
    • Sky + is licensed TiVo under the Sky brand...
    • Have you ever used a TiVo? I mean, I live in the UK and have both a TiVo and Sky+ box. TiVo's were sold over here, but TiVo marketed it badly and they picked Sky as their partner in the UK (baaad idea!). Sky+ isn't as good as TiVo in many ways, such as the scheduling. With the TiVo, you record things by picking the program name (or lots of other ways I wont go in to), whereas with Sky+ you have to pick by time, or use their very broad 1 day A-Z listings (which are pretty crap). Season passes on Sky+ suck, w

  • In other words... (Score:4, Funny)

    by GreenJeepMan ( 398443 ) * <josowski@tybi o . c om> on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:54AM (#6068545) Homepage Journal
    "while it's a bit redundant in the beginning and a bit short on technical details later"

    This article sucks, but hum... here it is anyway.

  • imagine that (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:54AM (#6068551)
    The New York Times runs an article that's "a bit redundnat in the beginning and a bit short on technical details"? Well, at least they didn't plagiarize, or declare it a quagmire after 2 weeks, so they're improving.

  • Question about Tivo / PVR quality (Score:5, Interesting)

    by coupland ( 160334 ) * <<moc.liamtoh> <ta> <esahcd>> on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:55AM (#6068556) Journal
    Was speaking with a friend recently and he had heard through the grapevine that the compression done on Tivo video renders very poor quality output, well below that of standard cable TV. I've been thinking of jumping on the PVR bandwagon for a while now but this worries me a lot. Can anyone who has a PVR comment on video quality? How does it compare to things like DivX, VCD, cable TV, satellite etc? I don't want to plug a DVR into my expensive TV and end up with something that makes live cable look awful. Thanks in advance for your insights.
    • your friend is wrong. go to a best buy and see for yourself. Tivo is the greatest device for your tv since the VCR.

    • Re:Question about Tivo / PVR quality (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:58AM (#6068587)
      At the high or best settings, you'd be hard pressed to pick out a digital cable signal from a tivo recorded digital cable signal.

      At the basic quality setting, you'd have no problem whatsoever.

      However, if your input signal is poor, tivo will have a harder time compressing it (as it tries to store all the noise), and compression artifacts might become obvious at High.
    • It depends on the quality of the incoming cable signal. You know, garbage in, garbage out. On my TV I notice a difference, but it beats the hell out of a VCR for quality and the season pass makes me randy.

    • Re:Question about Tivo / PVR quality (Score:5, Informative)

      by Qube ( 17569 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:02PM (#6068629)
      You choose the picture quality (a default which you can override for specific shows/SPs) but higher quality uses more disk space.

      Basic looks pretty horrible, and it does the usual blocky MPEG artefacts when something moves quickly but it's better than VHS at least.

      Medium is quite watchable, and OK for fairly static programmes (gameshows and the like)

      High is what I use for day-to-day and is very good - I have (UK) Sky Digital as the source and it's as good to my eyes.

      Best uses even more disk space, but will be as good as what you throw at it. It's what the live buffer uses and is recommended for sports and other fast-moving stuff.

      It's pretty straightforward to upgrade a TiVo to use a (cheap now) 120Gb disk and you can store a lot at High or Best with that.

    • Re:Question about Tivo / PVR quality (Score:5, Informative)

      by zsmooth ( 12005 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:02PM (#6068630)

      Your friend heard incorrectly. TiVo has 4 levels of compression available: Basic, Medium, High, and Best.

      Best: Virtually indistinguishable from the original broadcast. This is a good level for sports or movies with a lot of action scenes.

      High: I record everything (except sports) in high. For most shows, it's also very very close to original broadcast quality. On my 120GB TiVo I get about 40 hours recorded at High quality.

      Medium: Obviously a small step down from High. Dark scenes start getting hard to see, there are artifacts, etc. I never record at medium.

      Basic: I think this one sucks pretty bad and never record anything with it. However, I would get like 130+ hours of recording time on my 120GB TiVo if I used it all the time. Some people are satisfied with it, but I suspect those people have smaller TV sets.

      We have a 60" TV, so it's big enough for the quality to be important, and with High and Best, TiVo's quality is awesome. Definitely better than VCD, and better than most DivX encodings I've seen (although I understand you can encode DivX at real high rates too).

      • Thanks for the info - do you know how the disk usage compares between High and Best quality? I'm considering getting a Tivo, and disk space will obviously be a big consideration...

        • I don't really, since I rarely use anything other than High. I think I can get 35-40 hours at high with the 120GB hard drive I put in, so I imagine Best will probably get about 25-30 or so. A search at tivocommunity [tivocommunity.com] should give you a more definitive answer, but the search is turned off right now (probably because of load trouble they've had lately).

          My recommendation is to get the 40 hour unit and then upgrade it with a 120GB drive. The upgrade is extremely well documented and if you've tinkered with the i

        • If you're really worried about video quality, I'd recommend a DirecTiVo. I love mine.

          Aside from being able to record two shows on different channels at the same time (even while you watch another previously recorded show), they simply copy the already encoded (MPEG-2?) video from the satelite signal. It doesn't encode for storage->decode for viewing like the stand-alone units.

    • Re:Question about Tivo / PVR quality (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Dirk Pitt ( 90561 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:03PM (#6068634) Homepage
      I second the other poster and say to go check for yourself -- our local electronics store has a couple of gas plasma displays hooked up to Tivo and Replay, so you should be able to find something similar and get a pretty good demo.

      My experience, with Replay, has been very good. There are 3 quality levels, the highest of which is, IMHO, fairly indiscernable from straight cable on my Samsung hdtv (CRT, not projection, so the quality is quite good). Occasionally I'll see a compression artifact at the highest quality, but for the most part the benefits *far* outway the small loss.

      And the most lossy quality setting is good for recording the nightly Simpsons reruns ;-).

    • Your friend is very wrong. With the TiVo "Live TV", which is also the Best Quality recording option is indistinguishable from digital cable over RCA jacks. If you have a higher quality setup you'll probably notice a difference. You can also choose from four recording levels (Live TV is always "Best" and there's also High, Medium and Low), and as you go down quality does suffer (video only, audio is always the same bitrate). I record most things on Medium Quality from digital cable and watch on a 27" TV.
    • I cannot speak about the stand alone units but the DirecTV Tivos record the stream exactly as it is sent. I have a 50" toshiba widescreen HDTV monitor and the DirecTV single is quite acceptable on it. You will notice some jagged edges and pixelization where colors change rapidly but I believe that this is mostly as a result of stretching the SDTV single to fit the full screen. The Toshiba has several modes to do this and most look quite good when viewing from the Tivo.
    • If you go with the DirecTivo units you get NO loss at all since stores the incoming digital signal to the HD directly. You get about 1 hour/GB and it is as good as it is coming off the sat.
    • I had to upgrade my TV after my 27" TV that got me through college died in the middle of a game of Super Mario Sunshine 6-8 months back. I ended up with a 34" 16:9 HDTV ready Sony that supports 1080i. DVDs and games look amazing on the screen. However, the picture from our cable provider (Comcast) is horrible. There is HEAVY artifacting visible that the old 27" just blurred together. (An interesting aside: it seems as though the commericals are less compressed than the actual shows. There's a visible

    • Directv Tivo (Score:5, Informative)

      by asdfasdfasdfasdf ( 211581 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:13PM (#6068712)
      The DirecTV Tivos copy the satellite stream including Dolby digital as they come off the Sat-- so they are as "perfect" as the source-- which means for hi-bitrate channels like HBO, it's not DVD quality, but it's better than any cable I've seen.

      The flipside is that the DirecTivos are more difficult to hack, and I don't think there's any easy way to Hack the HDVR2 (latest and 'greatest')

      As others have mentioned, the HDVR2 is plagued with audio issues, while not devastating, still annoying-- and there hasn't been a patch since release-- 8 months ago. Also, there's no word on support for Home Networking for this model, even though the hardware supports it. :-P

      I've been too lazy-- but if if I give up on DirecTV sanctioned networking, I'm going to actively persue video extraction options.

      • Re:Directv Tivo (Score:2, Informative)

        by zurkog ( 96881 )
        The flipside is that the DirecTivos are more difficult to hack

        Not so; the Series 2 DirecTivo's (and Standalone's) are more difficult to hack. I've got a Series 1 DirecTiVo (Phillips), and I've added a second hard drive, an ethernet card, installed Tivoweb, and can extract crystal-clear video from it. :-)

      • Re:Directv Tivo (Score:5, Informative)

        by chhamilton ( 264664 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:54PM (#6069061)

        asdfasdfasdfasdf said:
        The flipside is that the DirecTivos are more difficult to hack, and I don't think there's any easy way to Hack the HDVR2 (latest and 'greatest')

        Not necessarily true. In fact, the DirecTiVos are just as easy to hack as the stand-alone TiVos, and most of the hacking work on the two types of boxes overlaps.

        The TiVo hacking community is quite strong, and things have come a long way. If you haven't checked things out recently, then you owe it to yourself to do so. There are lots of cool hacks out there:

        • FTP or HTTP extraction of MPEG2 video
        • FTP or HTTP insertion of MPEG2 video
        • complete and useable WUI
        • sharing recordings between boxes
        • on screen caller display
        • on screen email/instant message notification
        • much more...
        My favorite resource are the forums over at DealDatabase (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/ [dealdatabase.com]). You'll find lots of info and links on hacking your TiVo (new or old, DirecTV or standalone). Oh, and the Series2 TiVo's have been thoroughly hacked as well.

        asdfasdfasdfasdf said:
        The DirecTV Tivos copy the satellite stream including Dolby digital as they come off the Sat-- so they are as "perfect" as the source-- which means for hi-bitrate channels like HBO, it's not DVD quality, but it's better than any cable I've seen.

        The DirecTiVo saves video at 480x480, standard 29.97 fps, with some channels coming in at 720x480. This is less then HDTV at its best (1920x1080), roughly the same quality as DVD (720x480), better than standard broadcast (~460x360), and much better than VHS (~300x360).

  • Let me Guess... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:56AM (#6068567)
    Still...I'd much rather use something like FreeVo or MythTV and actually burn my shows to cd, stream whatever I want, etc, etc.

    I guess you never actually TRIED to use any of these apps, have you?

    Features are one thing, but when talking about an appliance, it's all in the UI. And nothing free out there yet remotely compares to TiVI's UI.

    • Re:Let me Guess... (Score:2, Informative)

      by Tovaris ( 122812 )
      It is my understanding that Snap Stream Media http://www.snapstream.com will be releasing version 3 today. I have not personally used it but have read some very positive reviews.

  • Why keep them? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Malc ( 1751 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:58AM (#6068591)
    Why would you want to burn stuff to CD to keep? I filled dozens of VHS tapes back in the 80's with stuff from the TV. Now I wonder why as I rarely rewatched any of it. I guess I was young and had too much spare time. These days there's rarely anything broadcast that I feel is so important to my life that I want to keep it. Why do people want to keep stuff from TV. What is so compelling that I'm not finding when I flip through the channels? It seems to me there are better things to do than waste ones life re-watching things you've already seen. Anybody watched the Royle Family? I find it painful and a rather uncomfortable reminder about the mindlessness of TV.

    • Re:Why keep them? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by HamNRye ( 20218 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:17PM (#6068741) Homepage
      Ummm... Getting movies from HBO?? Original series (Mr. Show for example), or even just sharing with friends. Recording and storing concerts, etc...

      The fact that none of the TV you watch is worth storing doesn't make it a bad idea.
      • Getting movies from HBO

        Uh... go out and buy/rent a DVD for some movie that HBO is showing. Now watch the two - either interleaved or one after the other.

        Note that the DVD version is far better quality, usually shown in the original aspect ratio (aka letterboxed), and has far, far better audio.

        Some of this is improved by going to digital sat, but not entirely. All of this is (potentially) fixed by watching HD-HBO, but that's a whole different discussion.

        Of course, if you have a 20" TV and are using the

    • Re:Why keep them? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Azghoul ( 25786 )
      I have to admit, I'm on the same side of the wall as you. I used to collect all kinds of junk: videos, music videos, mp3's more recently. But then I find that most of it just sits and collects dust.

      That said, I certainly can't argue with people who do like to "pack rat" stuff away... to each their own, and all that.

      However, if the Bills ever make another Super Bowl, you can bet I'll have it recorded. :)

    • Re:Why keep them? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Eccles ( 932 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:45PM (#6068962) Journal
      Why would you want to burn stuff to CD to keep?

      Because then I'll feel no compulsion to watch it when it comes on the air. Those of us who remember the pre-VCR days remember seeing that, say, "The Great Escape" was coming on, and arranging one's schedule to watch it.

      Kids watch the same thing numerous times, so they're more likely to want things recorded. A computer PVR is also useful for making CDs/VCDs/DVDs of home videos, which are worth archiving.

      I suppose one might also end up trading for shows one hasn't seen.

  • Umm.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by caffeinex36 ( 608768 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:59AM (#6068605)
    Still...I'd much rather use something like FreeVo or MythTV and actually burn my shows to cd, stream whatever I want, etc, etc."

    Who says you can't do that with TiVo? Also...Compare the prices of hardware you need to decently do a good job doing it your way. Why bother? At most, hack TiVo, put a few HD's in it and rip right off TiVo...at least then you have a hardware encoder and dont have to worry about everything being all shitty, and spending 1k on hardware

    Just my 2cents - Rob

  • roll your own (Score:5, Interesting)

    by kajoob ( 62237 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:00PM (#6068608)
    In the face of pressure from the tv industry, Replay may be dropping the 30 second skip feature [slashdot.org] and Tivo doesn't even have it unless you do the little hack and even then it's a pain in the butt. May I suggest taking a look at MythTV [mythtv.org] - it's a homemade PVR using linux, but if you take a look you'll see that it's full feature. You can schedule shows, the program listings are all there, it notifies you of scheduling conflicts, etc.. it is truly a Good Thing.

    • Re:roll your own (Score:5, Interesting)

      by zsmooth ( 12005 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:05PM (#6068659)

      How is TiVo's 30-second skip a pain in the butt? You type a six button sequence to turn it on, which doesn't need to be done again until a reboot. Then it's just 1 button to skip 30 seconds. How is that hard?

      I'll tell you what's a pain in the butt - building your own PVR. Trust me I've done it. I still love my TiVo more.

    • Re:roll your own (Score:4, Informative)

      by jayemdaet ( 111145 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:19PM (#6068755)
      I have tried both MythTV and Freevo.. Each of which took days to get to work and not fully. The quality of the broadcasts was very low and there were driver issues and hacks all over the place that had to be done just to get a common TV tuner to work correctly (AvertMedia). That aside I wasn't impressed with either product after weeks of fighting and research. I am looking at TiVO at this point.

    • Keeping 30-second skip (Score:3, Informative)

      by crow ( 16139 )
      First, the features that D&M is talking of dropping are for future models, possibly to allow for differences between low-end and high-end models.

      Second, the 30-second skip is not one of the features in question. That was a misunderstanding by the /. editors when posting the previous story. They were talking about Commericial Advance, which is the feature whereby the unit detects commercial breaks and automatically skips over them for you without pressing any buttons. (That's also one of two features

    • Re:roll your own (Score:3, Informative)

      by randyest ( 589159 )
      In the face of pressure from the tv industry, Replay may be dropping the 30 second skip feature and Tivo doesn't even have it unless you do the little hack and even then it's a pain in the butt.

      Please read your reference more carefully. Lots of posts in the thread you cited tried (apparently in vain) to clarify your error. ReplayTV/DM is not considering removing 30-second skip. Even the article summary is clear on this:

      "Wired News is reporting that the new owners of ReplayTV are considering dr

  • Also... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by caffeinex36 ( 608768 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:04PM (#6068649)
    Not sure if MythTV or Freevo work with DirectTV.

    • Re:Also... (Score:3, Funny)

      by zsmooth ( 12005 )

      No, they work great with DirecTV! You just need to get an infared transmitter (IR Blaster) and compile support into your kernel, then download the MythTV-DirecTV-IRBlaster-0.01-beta patch, apply it to your sources, blah blah blah...

      Or if you would rather just spend your tv watching time actually *watching tv*, DirecTiVo is the answer.

  • Building your own (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Uhh_Duh ( 125375 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:05PM (#6068658) Homepage
    Still...I'd much rather use something like FreeVo or MythTV and actually burn my shows to cd, stream whatever I want, etc, etc."

    The /. crowd is still missing a valuable lesson in "building your own tivo" -- it's freaking EXPENSIVE! I love how all the lists of "needed hardware" included multiple super high-end video capture cards -- each of which costs the same as a full TiVo.

    I love my TiVo (I own two of them). The software rocks. My wife can use it. My 2-year old can use it, and yet I'm still amazed at how powerful it is. Then along comes the OSS community. Builds a competitive box at 3x the price, software that's more difficult to use, and a feature-set that still can't compete. (yay for OSS).

    Buy a real TiVo -- you won't regret it.

    • Re:Building your own (Score:5, Informative)

      by atrus ( 73476 ) <(atrus) (at) (atrustrivalie.org)> on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:13PM (#6068713) Homepage
      Huh?

      A decent tuner card does not run for more than $60. And you only need one (MythTV for example can use more than one though). Now, a TiVo (not counting service) is still cheaper than a PC you build for the same functionality. Thats what you get with mass produced bare bones hardware.

    • Re:Building your own (Score:4, Informative)

      by atheos ( 192468 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:16PM (#6068731) Homepage
      "Then along comes the OSS community. Builds a competitive box at 3x the price, software that's more difficult to use, and a feature-set that still can't compete. (yay for OSS)."

      What do you mean - THEN comes along the OSS community?
      Your tivo was built on OSS software!

    • Re:Building your own (Score:5, Funny)

      by gosand ( 234100 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:19PM (#6068759)
      Then along comes the OSS community.

      Psst. TiVo runs Linux. Pass it on.

    • Re:Building your own (Score:4, Informative)

      by eyver ( 665994 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:20PM (#6068763)
      The /. crowd is still missing a valuable lesson in "building your own tivo" -- it's freaking EXPENSIVE! I love how all the lists of "needed hardware" included multiple super high-end video capture cards -- each of which costs the same as a full TiVo. Now mind you, I have not yet built my own PVR, but have actually been looking into it quite a bit now. How is it more expensive? First, as far as I know, you'd need a VIA EPIA with at least around an 800MHz chip on it; that should set you back around $105 shipped. Then you'd need some memory; an extra $50. 80 gig hard drive; should be around $80. WinTV PVR card, to handle all the MPEG2 encoding from TV; $125. Mini-ITX power supply; $30. (Throw in some extra for a case, or put it in something fun like at mini-itx.com [mini-itx.com].) Linux distribution and an installation of Freevo or MythTV; free. No priceless joke at the end of the list: good. That totals under $400 ($390). I'd say put an extra $75 in the mix, just in case there are upgrades/other necessities, and you're at $465. When I was looking at TiVOs this past December, they ended up being well over this price with subscription services. Now, the question remains of whether or not my product list up there would be feasible...

      • Re:Building your own (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Zathrus ( 232140 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:37PM (#6068898) Homepage
        you'd need a VIA EPIA with at least around an 800MHz chip on it

        I think you'd be deeply, deeply disappointed in the performance with that chip.

        You've also forgotten an IR receiver, keyboard, mouse (both wireless... right?), CD-ROM (unless you somehow planned to boot and install Linux over the network), and probably a few other items. Toss in another $100 or so.

        You know you can buy a refurb 80 hour S2 TiVo for $250 right now. Or a brand new one for $350. Or go to eBay and get a S1 box for ~$150. Add $300 for lifetime service and suddenly you have a box with an intuitive user interface that just plain WORKS.

        If you find fiddling around with things to make them work is enjoyable, and what you like to do in your spare time, then go for the build your own route. After all, getting there can be half the fun, and no doubt -- you can get more options that way. If you like doing other things in your spare time, want your wife/family/SO/children/random strangers to be able to use it then get a TiVo or Replay. Then you can spend all your free time doing whatever else you want to do (be it watching TV or something else) instead of trying to make something that's "nearly there" there.
      • I just thought I should point out that most of the people who are quoting you $400 for a TiVo unit are quoting you the retail price for a standalone TiVo. Now what savvy Slashdot shopper actually pays retail? :P

        The HDVR2 DirecTiVo is $199 if you're a current DirecTV subscriber. Just call DirecTV at 1-800-DIRECTV and request it. That's $199 installed, I might add.

        If you're not a current DirecTV subscriber, you can get an HDVR2, a dual LNB dish, and have the whole damn thing installed for $219. Check Americ [americansatellite.com]

    • TiVo is OSS... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by The Lynxpro ( 657990 )
      The operating system that runs the TiVo hardware is Linux...just so you know... It is TiVo's value added UI and program guides that make it the premium service that it is. Just like Apple with OS X...
    • I love how all the lists of "needed hardware" included multiple super high-end video capture cards -- each of which costs the same as a full TiVo.

      if you tell me that a ATI Tv wonder VE is "super high-end " and costs as much as a full Tivo.. either you are on some very serious drugs, or I really need to start being your electronics retailer as you are buying at insanely inflated prices.

      2 tuner cards for my freevo.... $50.00 TOTAL.
      1.4Ghz AMd processor and mobo.. $200.00
      40 gig drive (I'm a cheap ass) $3

  • TiVo works with both PC and Mac (Score:3, Informative)

    by mrklin ( 608689 ) <ken,lin&gmail,com> on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:06PM (#6068660)
    That's all I really needed to convince me. The fact it uses Rendezvous networking technology and has an establish fan/accessory (802.11b hack!) is a further plus.

    -I have a gen1 Tivo.

  • A much better comparison (Score:5, Informative)

    by anaradad ( 199058 ) <chris@shaffer.gmail@com> on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:08PM (#6068676)
    There are much better comparisons available, including http://pvrcompare.com/ [pvrcompare.com] , a great site for people considering a PVR purchase.

  • Why is ReplayTV always picked on? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:13PM (#6068708)
    I own a ReplayTV 5000 series. There is a lot of open source software available for it to allow for endless uses. The best is DVArchive. This software basically emulates a new ReplayTV on your network. It allows you to have an unlimited amount of space for shows (limited by your available HD space) without having to "hack" your ReplayTV. These shows play in real time from your computer just as if they were on the local box. They are saved as MPEGs, so you can easily burn an SVCD or convert to another format.

    As for the bankruptcy issue, ReplayTV was bought by D&M, the company that produces products under the Denon and Marantz brands. The Service has and is going to continue as normal. The price for monthly service and lifetime activation are going to increase (they will now be equal to Tivo's), but that does not affect current lifetime customers in any way.

    • I had looked HARD at the ReplayTV awhile back and was thrilled to see that people had figured out how to spoof a Replay box. Since then I had not been watching the development of the Replay community. The DVArchive software is a BIG leap forward IMO, I appreciate that lead.

      My BIGGEST requirement in a PVR is that I be able to move things to offline storage and the Replay is by FAR the easiest one to do that with. The TIVO requires all sorts of hoops and last I'd heard (many months ago) it was still hit or m

  • APEX DVR (Score:5, Informative)

    by bazabba ( 669692 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:14PM (#6068721) Homepage
    Looks like APEX is joining the bunch. This also includes a DVD player, or rather this DVD player includes a DVR. I don't read anything about a service fee either.

    ADR-1000 [amazon.com]
    • There's no service fee because there's no service.

      The unit does not appear to have the ability to download TV schedules like a Tivo or ReplayTV. You'd use it the same way you'd use a VCR to time shift programs: by manually programming the recording times into it. Interesting new toy, though.
  • I see (with much excitement) that tivo's now grok home networking, and playing of MP3's. Poking around the website it seems it only works with their software on "PC's and Mac's". The obvious question is can I hack it to play from Linux? If so, they just got a new convert.

    • Re:Tivo, home network, and mp3s (Score:4, Informative)

      by entrager ( 567758 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @01:05PM (#6069153)
      The protocol that TiVo uses for it's HMO (Home Media Option) is open. http://developers.tivo.com

      There is a Linux server available that I think is better than the official TiVo server already. http://ptivohmo.sourceforge.net. You have to get it out of CVS, but it works great.

      The server has a few problems here and there, but it's updated frequently. I use it daily and very rarely have any problems.

  • My Issue with ReplayTV and rolling my own (Score:3, Informative)

    by AnswerIs42 ( 622520 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:23PM (#6068791) Homepage
    Compatability with DirecTV.

    I bought a ReplayTV first... but after trying every way to get it to work with my direcTV receive and failing, I called DirecTV and according to the techs I talked to.. Replay systems are "not supported" .. they are.. but the DirecTV receiver I needed for it to work was another 150$.

    So, I took it back to best buy the next day.

    I think looked at rolling my own.. but 1) they didn't compare cost wise and 2) nothing was mentioned with them working well with DirecTV. All the linux/windows packages are geared for Cable Boxes, not satelite.

    So, I ended up at plan C) .. buy a refirb DirecTV/Tivo receiver. That was 6 months ago and not a problem since. And Tivo is actually cheaper that way.. 4.95$ a month.

  • Not to gloat, but... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Asprin ( 545477 ) <gsarnoldNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:24PM (#6068798) Homepage Journal

    I must be the luckiest guy in the world....

    We just traded our cable box for a PVR through our cable company. We got an integrated PVR/cable box with a 40 hour hard drive, and almost no DRM - we can record everything except pay-per-view. They even let us spit stuff out onto tape if we want.

    All for $5 per month. (JOY!)

    All the standard PVR features are there, though there's no commercial skip button.

    Now, here's the interesting part:

    The cable box is from Atlanta Scientific (not sure of the model number - 8???? I think), and declares itself as a Pioneer brand device on the firmware boot screen. The box itself is software upgradeable (by the cable company) and has what looks like:

    * RCA inputs (tech told me video source will be functional in a few days, so these may be usable soon)
    * 1 USB port
    * 2 FireWire ports
    * Something that looks like a smartcard slot

    Anybody know anything about these and what the extra ports can be used for?
    • We just traded our cable box for a PVR through our cable company. We got an integrated PVR/cable box with a 40 hour hard drive, and almost no DRM - we can record everything except pay-per-view. They even let us spit stuff out onto tape if we want.

      How is this different from TiVo/REplayTV? Actually, I think TiVo/ReplayTV can record PPV, you just can't transfer them.

      All for $5 per month. (JOY!)

      SO you're renting the device. Once you stop service you probably have to give it back. Maybe not a bad deal bu
    • You must have Time Warner Cable... its the only PVR from a cable company that can actually record two shows at once. But you don't have commercial skip or fast forward, or anything like TiVo's Season Passes. Just remember, you get what you pay for.
    • We've got one of these, and two TiVos. The AtlSci box:
      • doesn't keep track of space - shuts off recordings when it hits capacity with no notification
      • does a lousy job with season passes
        • if you try to record something at the same time, it'll delete all recordings of your season passes
        • if you stop recording in the middle of the program to watch something else (say, leaving a Simpsons you've seen a billion times for the NBA), the season pass stops recording all the shows for that season pass at the time you

    • Re:Not to gloat, but... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by llamalicious ( 448215 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @01:47PM (#6069478) Journal
      Sounds like you have the Explorer 8000.

      I have the same thing through Time Warner cable, it replaces your digital box, and you get a new remote. It's currently $6.95/mo in my area (Central New York) on top of the digital fees. I find it absolutely worth it, but for the naysayers out there, here's my pro/con list:

      Pros:
      • Same digital cable guide you've been used to (for TWCNY customers anyway) with a couple added options.
      • Pretty damn good quality on playback.
      • Can record two channels simultaneously
      • There's 3 speeds of fast-forward/reverse (see note in the Cons)
      Cons:
      • No way to set a preference to automatically grab an extra 5-10 minutes at the beginning and end of a show when scheduling (you have to do it manually, not sure if other PVRs support this)
      • Sluggish response. At times the thing is downright slooow... so, don't expect to just pop into a channel and record. It may take anywhere from 2-30 seconds to actually start recording a station that you just changed to.
      • There's only 3 speeds of FF/RV... I'm hearing all about this 30-second skip on TiVo, et. al... and this box could also benefit from that.

      And yes, there are 2 firewire ports and what appears to be USB on the back, and a plethora of input/output options. If I remember tonight, I'll reply to this post (or in my Journal) with the list of ports (or SciAtl's spec sheet) unless someone else gets to it first (wouldja, couldja?)

      Disclaimer: I'm really a lightweight tv watcher with a meager 32" SONY Flatscreen, SONY surround sound system. I don't watch HD, I just like my basic tv watching and surround and not missing my shows due to a busy schedule.

      Grammar nazis: yeah, I know I started a sentence with a preposition; I also didn't bother to spellcheck.

  • For those of you who dont know, when you have a TiVo hooked up to your television, you aren't watching "live" TV. You are watching TV from about 1 second earlier. This is required for of the ability to pause or rewind live TV.

    This can cause problems. I have Digital Cable from TW which offers Dolby Digital 5.1 surround on some channels and I have a high end audio system. Because TiVo does not have digital audio out nor support for it, I literally have to discontinue to EVER watch a show in digital 5.1 surro
  • I use one of the alternate video outs (as opposed to "send to vcr" feature) to record directly to an A/V dvd recorder. Very good quality on trasnfer even on medium quality. Using an AV component instead of extracting files is less hassle and you can make the recording as you watch the original. Also, anyone comparison shopping from this article should note that the ReplayTV does have a "wish list" type feature that is integrated into the regular show search (Tivo requires you to set up these requests in an
  • Is anyone using FreeVO or MythTV with DirectTV? If so, have you somehow set things up so that your PC can change the channels on the set top box (RCA brand in my case)? I've heard of some possible hacks using and IR device connected to a PC and using it to change the channels on the DirectTV set top box. Thoughts?

  • ReplayTV is the bomb (Score:2, Informative)

    by invisik ( 227250 )
    Hey,

    I recently compared and purchased my first PVR, a ReplayTV 5040 machine. Everyone I know has a TiVo ver 1 and they like it. Why did I choose Replay over TiVo ver 1 or ver 2?

    Mainly because of being able to send shows from box to box over ethernet. And to best that, you can run DVArchive on a computer and it acts as another ReplayTV box on the network. You can save shows to it and play shows off of it.

    TiVo has crappy broadband connectivity. Ver 2 is supposed to support USB. What additional hardwa
  • ...you can program your favorite DVR to record a show from a remote computer or from another (same-brand) DVR.

    Tivo/Replay hacking just got a whole new meaning... ;-)
  • as most of the channels I want to record are now up on digital cable land and nother of these units CAN RECORD THEM without using the digital box, and cant detect if the digital box is actually on. so if your universal remote screwed up last night and didnt turn off the digital box... when tivo wakes up it get's ready to record your show and then shuts off the digital bot to happily record 1 hour of black screen.

    It would take very little to add the ability for the tivo or replay to detect video presence an

  • MCE (Score:2, Funny)

    by JVert ( 578547 )
    Sticking my neck out I think Microsofts XP Media Center Edition is the best solution out there for PC DVRS. For those of you who can't afford the $1300 price for an MCE machine tag you can download the MCE add on to XP if you are an MSDN subscriber (or search "media centre edition" on your favorite p2p). MCE has alot of great features and the interface is of course very clean compared to the other PC DVR software. There is not monthly cost for the guide, its just, nice.
  • If you jack open the Replay case, remove the harddrive and plug it into your computer, you can get the stuff off of there. I believe there is even a project on SourceForge having to do with this (for read its harddrive I believe).

    Also in reponse to people who say to go use MtyhTV, you need like a 1GHz processor to do MPEG encoding in realtime... and it eats up most all the cpu, so dont expect to be using the computer for much else while it is recording.

    And in other news, how about free PVR software for u
  • An 80 hour (refurb) Tivo Series 2 for $250 [tivo.com]

    A 40 hour Replay5040 (refurb) WITH Lifetime Subscription for $330 [sonicblue.com]

    Share and enjoy.. I prefer Tivo for its UI, however the sharing/extraction of the Replay is very nice as well.

  • Closed captioning? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Eccles ( 932 )
    Do TiVo, ReplayTV, or even computer PVRs support closed captioning or open captioning? My wife is hearing-impaired, so that would be a good thing. Or if there are computer formats that support captioning/subtitling, perhaps the captions could be merged into the video file?

    • Re:Closed captioning? (Score:4, Informative)

      by xTK-421x ( 531992 ) * on Thursday May 29, 2003 @01:17PM (#6069266) Homepage
      The Tivo and Replay both support the passing through of the closed caption signal. The compression of the video doesn't affect CC.

      However, if you are asking do the boxes themselves actually have the ability to generate CC subtitles, Replay does not. The Tivo Series 1 machines can *if* you have the ability and time to go through installing a separate add on program from here:

      TivoVBI [samba.org]
  • This may be the wrong place to ask, but I swear... in my mind, it is on topic! (the poster mentions exporting recordings as a feature of mythtv, i'm just asking how).

    I set up mythtv lastnight. works great... except a few problems (complete system lock up when recording after about 1min)

    The one thing (asside from the crash) that I can't seem to get to work, is exporting the .nuv files to divx or mpeg. I am aware of the nuv2divx tool, and have been trying to compile it... but it just won't work.

    Has anyone

  • Explain to me why I want to "roll my own" (Score:5, Informative)

    by HarveyBirdman ( 627248 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @01:13PM (#6069230) Journal
    I'm serious, and not trying to pick on people, but I can't quite see my way to bothering.

    I used to have a Replay (Panasonic Showstopper), but bought a Tivo when I went to DirecTV because my local cable provider finally annoyed me enough. I picked up a combined "DirecTivo" unit.

    For $199 I got free installation with dish (and they did a great job) and a dual tuner unit (Hughes HDVR2). The HDVR2 records the original data stream from the satellite (IOW, no digital-analog-digital generation loss) so the recorded shows look as good as watching live. My local channels come in over the dish now, and show up in the proper channel slots (2, 4, 5, 7, etc.) instead of up in the 600s or 700s. Satellite, local, and pay per view are all integrated into a slick package.

    Cost in time: none. I'm able to log into work from home over a VPN, so I just worked at home the days of installation. Yeah, my cable company still gets me for Internet, but they achieved fiber optics at the curb in my area and reasonably priced megabit access, so that's OK.

    The monthly charge for the Tivo service is only $6 through DirecTV for some reason. Honestly, if I have to worry about a $6 a month charge, I have greater concerns that watching television more efficiently.

    I read accounts of the roll your own approach, and it just seems like endless hours of annoyance. I like to program and mess about with my computers (I have Macs, PCs and Linux boxen), but I really can't see the point to re-inventing the wheel in this case. They do seem to be getting a little more plug and play, but still... the claims of "it's free this way" completely ignores the value of a person's time.

    As for the comparison, I liked the Replay a lot. It was my first DVR, and I had a definite "how did I live without this" reaction. However, I like the Tivo more for three reasons: "to do" list, better conflict resolution, and better search functions.

    I like the direct recording of the original data stream, but Replay could just as easily do that in a combo unit, I imagine. I don't care about sending stuff to the computer, so I can't speak to that. Ultimately, it's just TV... that's why I like the DVRs in the first place- they make my TV time much more efficient (and shorter). If I just HAVE to have a copy of a movie, DVDs are cheap.

  • Try the GPL version... (Score:4, Funny)

    by ryanvm ( 247662 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @01:17PM (#6069261)
    You should try the new GPL'd clone of TiVo called GnuVo. It's pretty nice, except it won't let you watch any shows about capitalism.

  • ReplayTV including activation for $329 (Score:4, Informative)

    by jimmcq ( 88033 ) * on Thursday May 29, 2003 @01:52PM (#6069542) Journal
    SonicBlue is selling the ReplayTV 5040 (including Lifetime activation) for only $329 [sonicblue.com]

    This is an incredible deal, especially since the price of the activation alone will be $299 on June 1st. The only catch is that it is refurbished, but it still comes with a 90 day warranty.

    This is a limited time/quantity offer, so I'm guessing that it won't be available much longer.

    More info in the AV Science Forum [avsforum.com]

  • The funny thing about a PVR (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Casca ( 4032 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @02:24PM (#6069877) Journal
    Something interesting about PVRs, is that they do more than let you record a show and watch it later. Much much more, and the entertainment industry should be worried.

    I picked up a ReplayTV a couple of years ago, and I watch everything through it now, only I'm not watching much of anything these days. I used to be one of those people that was tied to the couch at certain times of the day/days of the week to catch the latest episode of whatever show. Now I just record them so I can watch them whenever I want, whenever its more convenient to do so. The funny thing is, lots of stuff goes unwatched now, and I don't miss it at all. I have picked up this mentality that its there if I want to watch it later, but right now I'd rather go do blah. I'm doing a lot more blah these days, and a lot less couch sitting. I wonder how many other people are feeling this effect?
    • I wonder how many other people are feeling this effect?

      I had a slightly opposite reaction. I'm watching a little more because I find more movies to watch with Tivo's search functions (and I never had the premium channels before), but I'm not spending all that much more time watching. In fact, I think I'm spending a little less.

      The 30 second skip is the key here (Tivo has it, but you need to activate it via a secret code). Not only do I skip through commercials very quickly, but I've started skipping wha

  • Oy... (Score:3, Informative)

    by skintigh2 ( 456496 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @03:06PM (#6070278)
    Tivo: $250
    Permission to use Tivo: $250/life-of-machine or $13/mo
    Tivo network hardware: $50
    Permission to use Tivo network hardware: $100
    Cost to restart all that if the Tivo breaks: $600
    Building your own: priceless.

    Okay, that is overdone, but I was really considering getting a Tivo until I read about all those additional charges. It would actually be cheaper to build one, and the frustration of doing so would be offset by MythTV's ability to act as a front end for all my emulators and play content I find on the net and even download the weather.

  • Replay Rebates Honored by D/M (Score:3, Interesting)

    by joel8x ( 324102 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @03:15PM (#6070350) Homepage
    I know its slightly OT, but I bought my Replay in February, and it came with 2 $50 rebates that I had never received. I was ready to accept that I was never going to see my money after the bankruptcy, but then I received a letter from D/M last week telling me that they are honoring my rebates!

    The moral of the story is that ReplayTV is in good hands. I cannot stress how good TV is when you have the power to cut out the fat from it!

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