Perfect Pitch for Those Without It 776
airrage writes "Sometimes technology is a good thing, and sometimes it ends up in a hardware device called an autotuner. Apparently, it allows real-time pitch correction. They are actually being used at concerts. I think we all realize that some singers sound different -- much different -- live than they do on CD's, but this just seems so, so, what's the word: fake?"
Concerts/Music (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Concerts/Music (Score:5, Insightful)
I for one, enjoy going to concerts where the songs I've come to enjoy on CDs are now played in different ways. It shows growth and depth to the group. Music is an evolving art, and when songs are worded, sung, played differently in concert, it reflects the changing views and motivations of the artist.
This is the great thing about concerts. I for one, hope this device never sees widespread use. It could ruin the whole concert experience.
Re:Concerts/Music (Score:3, Insightful)
But you can imagine that there are a lot of people who don't really care. Because many consumers go to concerts for not only music, but for the experience of being with a billion other raving, dancing lunatics, and to watch pretty young people prance around on the stage.
It's like what Kasparov said about computers playing chess. Kasparov doens't think supercomputers will doom the inherent prettiness
Re:Concerts/Music (Score:3, Interesting)
No, your guitar would sound just fine. Your music, OTOH... If you need distortion and effects to make your music good, it means you aren't a good enough musician yet. I know this sounds like a flame, but I don't mean it to be. Continued practice could turn you into a "virtuoso" of the guitar. Distortion does not an artist make.
Re:Concerts/Music (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Concerts/Music (Score:3, Informative)
Distortion, like chorus effects and envelope filters, is simply another option for your guitar's "voice." T
Re:Concerts/Music (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Concerts/Music (Score:5, Insightful)
It's an amazing instrument. Distortion, delay, and other effects create new sounds to play with, and new ways of creating music.
Your statement is insulting. Allow me to rephrase:
The former statement creates a corollary that using effects diminishes your musical ability, or that you are using it as a crutch. The latter statement reinforces that these are new tools in the musical repertoire, and only enhance what is already there. The electric guitar is a unique instrument, and using it to its full abilities, including effects, brings out new dimensions in musicality.
Would you have a clarinet player abandon use of the trill? Or forbid a pianist the use of the sostenuto? Of course not. The guitarist is no less for his judicious application of his instrument's sinular abilities.
Re:Concerts/Music (Score:3, Insightful)
AFAIK pretty much ALL dance music is already computer generated nowdays
But if you've listened to ANY song you've enjoyed since the early 80's on a cd your listening to computer generated music. It was less sophisticated and less "computer" as we know it today but anything recorded in a studio in the 50's on up has been "enhanced". The moment they apply a single effect you are no longer listening to music the artist created but rather
Re:Concerts/Music (Score:5, Insightful)
I say almost all the modern musicians are promoted based on how they look .
The main target audience of today's music companies and record labels are people who belive that american idol and american junior are the ultimate authoritative agencies for musical talent search.
when was the last time you saw an MTV video where the lead singer was ....what's the word.. UGLY ?
M TV has done more damage to music than you can imagine.
Re:Concerts/Music (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Concerts/Music (Score:5, Insightful)
That you know of. For every artist you're thinking of, there are a thousand real musicians that you've never heard of. Then again, it doesn't sound like you're looking.
Re:Concerts/Music (Score:3, Insightful)
There are tons of excellent musicians out there. But the promoted ones are, for the most part, attractive.
Even in genres like classical/etc, looks are marketed.
Two Words (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Concerts/Music (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Concerts/Music (Score:3, Funny)
1992, when the last one was released!
Re:Concerts/Music (Score:3, Insightful)
Hear hear! Why is it that we demand that our musicians have to have deep, poetic thoughts while also being able to sing and play instruments well?
There's a reason publishers usually hire actors to record audiobooks rather than the original author.
Its like demanding that all of the dancers in a production of Swan Lake should be able to choreograph the steps and write the music as well.
Or like getting pissed off at Bob Dylan for having a shitty voice... j
Re:Concerts/Music (Score:3, Interesting)
That said, there's a much larger punk movement that actually revolves around the music, not just pushing records. To say the least, Rancid wouldn't sound righ
Re:Concerts/Music (Score:3, Interesting)
There is nothing that justifies the abuse and debasement those judges dish out. YOU might think it makes good TV (and, obviously, the producers
Why stop at concerts? (Score:5, Funny)
Wonderful! About time they came up with something to make pop music marginally more tolerable.
Now if they could just integrate this technology in consumer karaoke machines, I'd be truly grateful.
Natural Progression (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Natural Progression (Score:2, Funny)
No negative side-effects? N'SYic, Britney spears, backstreet boys, Christina, Justin,Mnady Moore, Michelle Branch need I go on ?...
Re:Natural Progression (Score:5, Insightful)
The technology is already in use to create pop acts and has been used throughout the late 90s for this very purpose. The very pop acts that the other poster listed are known to use autotuners. Instead of finding good singers, all the recording industry has to do is find pretty people who can sing passably well enough to work with the autotuner. It's essentially the final nail in the coffin of actual talent in pop acts.
This "levels the playing field" in an industry supposedly based on bringing the best of the best to the national stage. Standards in the recording industry have been slipping for years. One reason for this is that truly talented and popular acts are hard to keep control of contractually. They have enough creativity and talent to jump ship to other labels or create their own labels and survive for years. This is pretty much the opposite of what the recording industry wants. This technology will allow them to take more talentless nobodies and propel them to the national stage with the implicit understanding that without the company that sponsored them, they are nothing. More talented yet more difficult to control musicians can be left more and more to the wayside. In essence, it allows a talent-based industry to get away with selling products without true talent, thus cutting long-term expenses for them.
This technology's a gift from the heavens in karaoke bars, but it'll be just another step in purging all vitality and talent from popular music.
So? (Score:3, Interesting)
Fake? (Score:4, Funny)
Hey... (Score:5, Funny)
Thank you, NASA! (Score:3, Funny)
Lieutenant L. T. Smash
(not spell-checked)
Recordings? Yes. Performances? No. (Score:4, Interesting)
I can see using a tool like this to get the perfect studio recording -- especially after getting a great take with just a few bum notes.
Using it during a performance, however, is just cheesy. Learn to sing in tune, please.
Re:Recordings? Yes. Performances? No. (Score:4, Insightful)
if the artist hits a wrong note, forgets a word or whatever it usually doesn't ruin the performance. of course this is for the case of real artists who play their own instruments and write their own songs.
for the likes of Britney Spears etc. who have no talent or personality, "fashion-magazine perfection" is *all* they have, and their retarded audiences would no doubt demand nothing less.
Re:Recordings? Yes. Performances? No. (Score:4, Informative)
A vocoder generates a fixed frequency wave (pulse, sine, whatever) at the correct pitch and then modulates that wave with the input signal. The result is that when the input frequency changes, you hear a very sudden, abrupt change in the output pitch, much like the voice is being generated by a music keyboard. From a pitch perspective, it basically is.
A pitch correction does a frequency estimator on the original input signal, then determines the nearest correct frequency for a valid note in the current key, determines how far to shift it towards the correct pitch (you don't shift it all the way to avoid flattening vibrato completely), and finally uses a Fast Fourier Transform (FFT) to actually shift a chunk of audio up or down in pitch the appropriate amount.
Vocoding is to pitch correction as AM Radio is to Ogg Vorbis. Yeah, they both end up doing similar things when viewed at a high level, but they do them in such radically different ways that they don't sound anything alike.
Re:Recordings? Yes. Performances? No. (Score:3, Insightful)
You don't. That's what's so fun about a live show. You see mistakes, things done differently, new lyrics are sung sometimes, extra verses, etc. If you wanted things perfect, just listen to your CD of the band and look at a poster of them! Why must everything be perfect? Gawd, I r
What would you rather pay for... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:What would you rather pay for... (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been to concerts where the singer has forgotten lyrics, or sung a wrong verse. It's part of the experience, and seeing how the singer reacts shows more depth than you will get by hearing something that is perfect all the time.
The world is not perfect, so don't expect perfection from a concert.
Re:What would you rather pay for... (Score:3, Interesting)
I was the Engineer in Charge of the TV production truck about 6 years ago when we did the KISS concert at the Omni in Atlanta... Gene Simmons had big pieces of posterboard with the song lyrics taped down to the stage all around his mic stand... Every few songs they would manage to pause a minute or so while a stagehand threw down more posterboard while another one pulled the old ones down
The best "live screwup" I ever heard of... (Score:3, Funny)
So they asked if any one in the audience could play drums. "You have to be good." Some lucky fan got to live out their dream that night, and played drums for the Who for the rest of the concert.
Jon Acheson
Re:What would you rather pay for... (Score:5, Insightful)
At the last Yes concert I attended, Jon tripped over a cable while backing up to give Steve room for a solo, and fell flat on his back. You could hear the crowd gasp. He bounced right back to his feet, and was fine by the time the next vocals came around. When the song was done, he grinned and said "All I could think was 'thank god I'm among friends'". You'll never get that kind of immediacy and connection listening to a CD, or watching a meticulously hyper-engineered 'concert'.
Re:What would you rather pay for... (Score:3, Insightful)
I wouldn't pay $50 dollars to see an artist who needs a crutch of this magnitude.
An artist who misses a note or two isn't going to sound terrible. Experienced live performers will just keep belting it out rather than tripping over it for several bars. If you expect a Live performance to sound jus
Re:What would you rather pay for... (Score:3, Insightful)
In the same way that athletes train and stay in shape, so do musicians train their vocal chords. In each case, it helps them be able to not get tired.
This is why you will see a few days break more often than not during concert tours. (Well, that and the time it takes to travel.)
Also, most musicians know what their livlihood is, and will not
this is news?? (Score:5, Insightful)
Apparently, it allows real-time pitch correction. They are actually being used at concerts.
Gee, Antares Auto-Tune has been out now for what, 6 years? I have a demo of it on my old OS9 Mac, and you can get a hardware version.
Usually it's used subtley to "clean-up" vocals but Cher really abused it on that "Believe" song. And also Madonna has used it recently on some song and Squarepusher (Red Hot Car). Like the article says it's used a LOT. So are a lot of other effects like reverb, compression, "aural exciters", etc.
It's just a tool like any other. The big-name recording industry completely abuses and sanitizes every track with endless re-takes, splices, effects, equalization, compression, etc., etc., this is just another way to make the tracks squeaky-clean, bland, and lifeless! If you like that "well-produced" sound this should be no problem.
I love this quote from a producer: "It's satanic.. Digital vocal tuning is contributing to the Milli Vanilli-fication of pop music. It's a shame that people just do it by rote.
Uhm, dude, the whole recording industry is satanic .. have you bought any
records lately? MilliVanilli-fication is the norm! I think if fans knew just
how awful most performers are without the technology, they'd wonder why the engineers name isn't on the front of the album!
PS: "Perfect pitch" to me means "being able to identify notes by ear without a reference" rather than "being able to sing on-key" (though I guess the two usually go together).
Re:this is news?? (Score:3, Insightful)
I suspect it means that to MOST people. That's what "perfect pitch" means. And there's a LOT of professional musicians, even talented ones, who do not have this ability. It's not really required for performance. But it's absolutely required for absolute mastery of the craft.
Of course, there are people with perfect pitch who can't
Uh, no. (Score:5, Interesting)
When you're singing or playing in an ensemble that's out of absolute tune but in tune with itself, you have the unpleasant choice of staying in absolute tune and going out of tune with the group or adjusting and hearing things out of tune, which is jarring.
For a simpler example, imagine trying to improvize in C on a clarinet and hearing the music in Bb. Now that's jarring.
Unbelievably good relative pitch is required for "absolute mastery" of music. Perfect pitch is just a party trick.
Re:Uh, no. (Score:3, Interesting)
One person might be able to tell you that a note is an A 440, but if they hadn't done music for a few days they're sense might shift a little and they wouldn't notice that a note they were hearing was an A 441 instead of an A 440. This is still enough of an ability to be called perfect pitch. Other people can hear even more accurately, which mig
Re:this is news?? (Score:3, Interesting)
Nah. Relative pitch (the ability to perceive the differences between intervals) is sufficient to be able to sing pitches accurately within a key and even when moving through many keys. As for being able to identify notes without a reference, that's not really true either. Paul Hindemith, the well-known German composer and music e
Re:this is news?? (Score:5, Informative)
Cher really abused it on that "Believe" song.
Nearly. It was a vocoder [soundonsound.com], but the end effect is very similar. The main practical difference is that vocoders [vintagesynth.org] can be used to make anything sound in pitch, and even let people sing chords rather than single notes. That and they've been around far longer. Hmm, maybe I should submit them as a new technology for a Slashdot article...
Re:this is news?? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a singer. You are right about what "perfect pitch" means, but the article suggests one of the purposes of the autotuner is for those nights when a singer physically can't execute the more extreme notes. Being able to execute as passage is more than knowing how it's supposed to sound (which is what perfect pitch gives you); the production of vocal music is very athletic. If you have a head cold or a sore throat messing with your high/low notes, and an arena filled with 50,000 screaming fans who paid upwards of $50/seat, well, yes, I can see where the pressure for an autotuner comes from.
This is still the antichrist, though. Definitionally, it eradicates blue notes, bends, and fun pitch effects -- what does it do to glissandos?
And, frankly, it offends me as a singer. The craft of singing is, like 60%, the mastery of making pitch and rhythm to nigh-superhuman levels of precision. Sure you could make a machine do it, but that's like having a forklift compete in a weightlifting competition. What's the point?
Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
If you're going to an arena show to see a display of musicianship, expect to be disappointed.
If you just want to turn off your brain and have fun, then you will be right at home, because this is exactly what that kind of music is crafted for.
Re:Who cares? (Score:4, Interesting)
Just because something is popular doesn't mean it not good music. Just because someone is popular doesn't mean that they necessarily will have a bad stage show or use vocal enhancements. Those types of assumptions are close minded in typical
Just listen to the music. If you like it, you like it. If you don't, you don't. If you can't handle the artists political affiliation or record label, that's fine too. But don't bash something just because other people like it. It's almost as if people need to feel special by listening to music that isn't popular.
[rant off]
Re:Who cares? (Score:3, Interesting)
Having just seen guitar virtuoso Neal Schon rock out with Journey recently in a major arena, I disagree that all arena shows are mindless Justin Timberlake tripe.
Just ask those who worship Phish.
Darn (Score:2)
The correct usage of this.... (Score:4, Funny)
Already got one (Score:3, Funny)
Low-tech options (Score:5, Funny)
Misrepresentation (Score:2, Insightful)
Is it misrepresenting the abilities of the singer? Perhaps. I think people should just find musicians who have the looks AND the abilities.
Re:Misrepresentation (Score:3, Informative)
This is true. The version of the Beatles "Strawberry Fields Forever" that everybody knows is actually a splice of two different takes. One of the take's tempo was faster than the other, so they had to slow one down and then adjust the pitch to make the two takes line up. This has nothing to do with Lennon's vocal performance, but it just goes to show that pitch adj
Live performances (Score:2)
P.S. Don't steal music.
Re:Live performances (Score:3, Interesting)
I like live performances too. Archive.Org is a great place to get live concert music. Big Heat Todd and the Monsters, Little Feat etc..
As far as this: "P.S. Don't steal music." I disagree in a similar way that RMS would disagree with: "P.S. Don't steal software."
If you don't want us listening to your music. Don't fucking play it.
Otherwise I just might be recording your concert.
--ken
It's not all bad (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd much rather listen to someone using one of these with original, creative music than listen to someone with great singing talent, but singing crappy cookie-cutter music.
So let's start putting this in the hands of the creative people who can't sing.
Just hire some vietnamese! (Score:5, Insightful)
Vietnamese perfect pitch link (Score:5, Informative)
Old tech for Studios (Score:2)
Real time correction can make it worse if the pitch correction takes the note to the next half step away. Ouch.
Autotune is THE DEVIL! (Score:5, Interesting)
The saddest of sad is when you hear autotune processing on the voice of an artist who understands how to use the many subtleties of pitch, yet bows to the record company execs by submitting to the autotuner.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Fake (Score:2)
Nothing new.. (Score:4, Interesting)
For example, autotuners can be used to change pitch during performance in ways that vocalists simply cannot. A good example (well, most people will know it anyhow) of an autotuner and vocoder used in combination is in Cher's song "Believe"
Antares Autotune [antarestech.com] is probably the most popular autotuner, and is said to be what Cher's track actually used. It's available in DirectX, VST, and several other versions and has a free trial version for anyone who's interested.
My band used this (Score:2, Interesting)
autotuners have been around for a long time (Score:2)
More recently, Cher used the autopitch as an effect, keeping it on and letting it lock the notes as her voice slid up and down. Now every damn artist uses it, and it's as damn annoying as the robot voice in 80's electronika, but it's still as an effect. If y
Why just singers? (Score:2)
All three 'tricks' create an impression of a person's talent that is different in some way from reality.
MP3's (Score:3, Funny)
You can hear it (Score:5, Interesting)
If you don't have it... (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't care if people want to "fix" their errors on an album, that doesn't bother me - I can accept an album as a "finished" work of art and enjoy its (presumeably enhanced) merits regardless of the unenhanced talents of the musician (or composer, where that differs from the performer).
However, I go to concerts to see the "raw" work, with no enhancements. If an artist lacks the talent to actually reproduce their work (within reason) in that environment, they should not tour. Simple as that. Selling me the same thing I could have on CD (minus the masses of sweating fans packed in like sardines, $3.50 pints of Aquafina, and idiots who consider a concert a good place for impromptu karaoke) for about $80 less (per pair) does not make me happy.
As an (almost) unrelated aside, another concert peeve of mine - Volume. I went to a concert this past weekend (Tori Amos in Boston) where the performer did well, the set list appealed to me, and the environment in general seemed just about perfect. However, even with earplugs (a must for anyone who actually goes to concerts to enjoy the music), they had the volume cranked so high that the bass completely distorted everything else (as in, I could audibly detect clipping of the vocals at every new bass note or percussive event). This does NOT make for satisfied (much less "happy") concert-goers.
Re:If you don't have it... (Score:5, Insightful)
The Grateful Dead are a perfect example of why it doesn't matter one single bit if someone is a) out of tune b) forgets the words c) starts humming hoping the rest of the band picks up for it, etc.
Donna sang like crap (miked wrong, horrible singer, tone deaf, whatever) yet she brought a different dimension to the group.
Jerry would FREQUENTLY forget words and just trail off into no where during songs he had sung 100s of times.
Bobby (even now, Joliet, IL even) can't remember ALL the words to ALL their songs. Hell, the newer members of the band probably know the songs better than Jerry or Bobby ever did.
They were/are a successful band because they PERFOM for REAL.
They don't perform just for the money. They don't get dressed up like belly dancers, and they don't have plastic surgery.
They do it for the fans and for the music. Who the fuck cares if the songs are slightly out of tune (do you think that everyone in the crowd singing along is in tune? I know I'm not).
Enjoy the bands that perform live, write their own music, and do it for the fans.
Fuck the cookie cutter musicians that are extorting money from their naive teenage fans.
Nothing to Worry About (Score:3, Insightful)
Many singers are not always in tune. Go back and listen to some old Beatles albums like Revolver ... the auto-tuner would have a field day fixing all the slightly out of tune instruments and vocals. But would it make an obvious classic album more classic? Quite the opposite.
Part of the charm of vocals is that they are organic, even more so in a day and age where every single instrument can be synthesized and manipulated. Being in tune is overrated. You can't "fix" a Johnny Rotten scream. There's no point in auto-tuning rap music. Listen really carefully to some of your favorite singers. Not everything is a matter of being in tune. Some of it's confidence, "presence", knowing how to convey emotion through subtle details.
The worst thing that can happen as a result of auto-tuning is people start preferring cookie cutter, perfectly in tune vocals. That they start thinking N'Sync and Britney and Shania Twain are the apex of pop music. Thankfully I don't see this happening.
nit pick (Score:5, Informative)
Geez, What's Next? (Score:5, Funny)
A-ha! (Score:3, Funny)
Anyone ever listen to that dude? Back in the late 80s? I think he had a vocal 'range' of over 8 octaves..
It was either this device, or some type of testicle clamp..
thank you for purchasing the rock concert manual (Score:3, Interesting)
Thank you for purchasing the rock concert manual. This manual will teach you to how host a rock concert. The most important thing for performers is choreography. Will the advent of autotuners and backing tracks, performers can now focus all their attention on dancing. You no longer have to worry about things like hitting the right notes or showing emotion. Start by loosening your hips. Now, lets try this simple beat...
They performed this on Leno recently as well. It is quite funny how they make fun of all the rock concert cliches.
American Idol (Score:5, Funny)
It would be interesting to take some of those really god-awful American Idol contestants and run their voices through one of these things, see what happens.
If I had one, I'd have to have one with little robot arms that it could throw up in disgust when I tried to sing.
Big Label productions (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not the use of autotune that's the problem (Score:5, Informative)
Here's a real-life scenario: I'm recording a singer who is pretty good but there's one note that they can't quite hit today. We could scrap the session and do it again later - even good singers have trouble hitting all the notes all of the time - but that will cost the client hundreds of $$$. Alternatively I can fix the one note that's not quite there. I wouldn't try to correct every little shaky bit of intonation in the entire song, just the one that's really sour. What would you do?
Or how about this? Got a great bass player laying it down. Good tone, good part, one note played near the end of the neck is a bit off because the intonation of the instrument needs adjusting. Would you fix the note with Auto-Tune or scrap the session ($$$) and ask the bass player to get the intonation fixed? I'd do the expedient thing - fix the note AND ask the bass player to get some work done on the instrument before the next session.
What drives me crazy is the obvious warbling and perfectly pitched effect you hear on all of the modern pop and Nashville country CDs. Nobody can sing like that, it sounds like a machine. That's misuse of what can be a very subtle and powerful tool.
Autotune, Compression... Oh, bleed on me (Score:3, Informative)
I used to know a guy from a fairly popular hardcore band in Boston, name removed to protect the innocent.
Mostly Talentless (Score:3)
So we have talentless shills, and visual performers who don't focus 100% on their music onstage. Are we REALLY causing any damage with them, or for that matter, are we very interested in listening to the singing from these people?
Somehow I don't see Happy Rhodes using one of these.
Some mp3 examples of the correction: (Score:5, Informative)
Female singer before [antarestech.com]
and after [antarestech.com] processing.
Lots more at the product info page [antarestech.com].
Tool versus instrument (Score:4, Insightful)
There's two ways to view things like this. Either as a tool to enhance something (if you can't sing, for example), which is the intended use... Or to be used as an instrument in its own right.
The latter gets my vote a lot more. Before you get upset and hope it never takes off, just think: Mellotrons [virgin.net] haven't replaced orchestras, drum machines haven't replaced drummers, and samplers haven't replaced every other instrument in the history of time. They all sound good in their own right, not as clones of other things.
Warning labels? Why not? (Score:3, Informative)
Why not? Tom Scholz of Boston [boston.org] has been putting the "no synthesizers or computers used" on Boston albums since Don't Look Back [boston.org], their second album.
Then again, I don't know what exactly he calls his racks [boston.org] and racks [boston.org] of Rockman sound processing equipment [boston.org], but they sure look like computers to me!
I hate it (Score:5, Interesting)
I know this sounds like a harsh approach, but that's the world of the professional musician. I have to question the work ethic of a musician who would need something like this. If you were the leader a band (especially one wth 12+ members), would you want the singer to have a special little box "just in case" he/she made a mistake? I'd rather get a singer who is confident he/she won't make those mistakes. There are more musicians than gigs, so to make it, you have to be there whenever they ask, and don't fuck up.
Pop stars are obviously a different matter, thought. They are much more glamorous, and typically less talented and don't work as hard as the pro musician. They are tossed into a studio to record the next "hit" written by a room full of boring-looking writers, quickly whisked away to a dance studio where the star is yelled at for hours until he/she can dance like a rock star, then a bus takes the soon-to-be-one-hit-wonder around the country while Clearchannel plays the hell out of the new song. This is the kind of person who needs a safety net like that. This is not the kind of person who spent years writing and practicing, accepting any gig that came along, playing to sometimes empty clubs, sometimes double-booking rather than turning down a gig, and driving for five hours to play a four-hour gig. While that may sound like hell to the non-musicians out there, it is exactly the kind of experience that most real musicians go through, and if it weren't for the genuine love of music, nobody would do it. But through that process, the musician learns a lot of discipline, and is ready to sight-read through forty charts with a band full of strangers. Ask the musician if he/she needs a device like this.
Reality Check (Score:4, Informative)
Secondly, they're not the black magic that the article makes them out to be. I've used one many times in a recording setting and they can't make a bad singer into a good singer. They can make a slightly out of tune singer sound in-tune and that's about it. Plus they're hard to use. If you set the tuning speed to fast, they'll flatten out your vibrato. If you set it too slow, bad notes will get through. They have limited usefulness.
Avril Lavigne is a good example... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:hey, wait a minute (Score:4, Funny)
oh wait...
Re:hey, wait a minute (Score:3, Funny)
Re:hey, wait a minute (Score:3, Funny)
Re:hey, wait a minute (Score:5, Interesting)
Pianos, guitars, and many other instruments have a great deal of trouble with this. You'd have to rearrange the fretboard on a guitar to avoid (nearly) even-temperament, and the piano requires a skilled tuner at least 10 minutes or so to adjust. Thus most people are accustomed to hearing something as "in-tune" only when it is performed to an even-tempered scale.
This fights the vocalists natural ability to judge tune based on harmonic interaction with the rest of the song.
As a recording artist, I make regular use of pitch correction. You'll find that virtually every major artist commercial artist does, as well. The "effect" you refer to is often called the "Cher Effect" from the song, "Life After Love", where they intentionally used pitch correction to the extreme. Most uses are quite subtle, and are most often used to smooth out the rough edges in a once-in-a-lifetime recording.
It's possible to pitch-correct large variations in performance (bringing, say, a C to a G) but they sound increasingly unnatural the further you move the note from reality. The human ear is very closely attuned to variations from normal speech and singing patterns. That's why a sped-up playback of a tenor doesn't sound like a soprano -- it sounds like a sped-up tenor.
Anyway, get used to pitch correction. It's been in common use for over fifteen years on commercial recordings, but only recently has the technology become cheap enough that it's accessible to live performance and lower-end home recording artists. It's no more "BS" than a motion picture studio rigging cameras up for "bullet time", trapeze artists using a net, or stuntmen playing body doubles for stars in a motion picture. It's the ultimate quality of the performance that matters, and whatever you can do to bring the quality up a notch is probably a good thing.
Some artists thrive due to their "natural" sound. That's great for them. The rest of us enjoy technology's ability to make our lives more fun, interesting, and better-sounding.
Re:Your are confusing pitch and scale. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Your are confusing pitch and scale. (Score:3, Informative)
Huh? I thought the Pythagorean scale was based on whole-number ratios: An octave is 2:1, a fifth is 3:2, a fourth is 4:3, etc. But if you do the math, 3/2 * 4/3 == 4/2 == 2/1
Re:Your are confusing pitch and scale. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Your are confusing pitch and scale. (Score:3)
Sing? Half of them have trouble even talking in sentences of more than 3 words that doesn't have a swear word in it and with words of more
than 2 syllables. Then for the music they simply rip off someone elses track and put their "vocals" over the top along with some
cheap Yamaha bassline. Truly rappers are the dictionary definition of the word "talentless".
Re:hey, wait a minute (Score:3, Interesting)
and anyways, if they had actually sang on the record it wouldn't have been a big deal at all, most of such acts do so. the music is already just a recording(so some recording is necessary) and all of the performance is just dancing(that is very physically demanding, so it would make good singing impossible anyways). playback also saves a lot of soundchecking too so
Re:I can tell none of you are musicians. (Score:3, Funny)
So basically what you're saying is that the RIAA has already started distributing them to their artists?
Re:I can tell none of you are musicians. (Score:5, Insightful)
The talent portion and 'soul' behind the music is gone...that's what I think is killing music today. I'd much rather in the day, seen the Stones get up and play...they sounded hardly like their albums, but, when on stage..you could 'feel' the energy...Keith and Mick Taylor/Ronnie Wood crunching out chords..Jagger jumping all around...they made an audience part of the experience. I'd rather see Jimmy Page of Zeppelin get up and try to blister out a million notes per/sec on the guitar...hell, he flubbed tons of them...but, there was soul and feeling behind the music. Who cared if Robt's voice broke on occasion...the whole live show was an experience...
Unfortunately....groups today..in many cases don't have that feeling to their music. The pre-fabbed groups don't pay their dues in bars...concert after concert grinding it out and perfecting into show bands as did the bands of old.
I miss the days where the albums were just something to get you excited to go SEE the group in person...'cause they had showmanship and would play the songs as they felt it that night. You didn't expect it to be 'just like the record'...in fact, I was disappointed if there wasn't some improv. in each song. Dancing and choreography isn't bad, but, should take 2nd place to the performance.
Re:I can tell none of you are musicians. (Score:4, Interesting)
Every musician who cares about their art needs to come to terms with the fact that 99% of their craft is practiced in the service of an entertainment industry that doesn't give a crap about artistic greatness. It's all about getting money out of the hands of listeners, and into the hands of promoters/patrons/labels/etc. Always has been. If Handel and Beethoven had to deal with this kind of shit in their day, what makes you so special?
If you want to be an "artist", the best thing you can do is just keep working at mastering your craft and not worry about the millions of dollars it seems that an army of inferior musicians are making. They are doing something which doesn't really resemble what you are doing... something which pays better. So either put on a miniskirt and join them *cough*Jewel*cough* or just be happy doing what you are doing. Either way, don't whine about it. Nobody else cares, and you can't make them.
No autotune can work miracles (Score:3, Interesting)
The singer would have to be decent to begin with - it can make them sound a little better, but a flat-out bad singer is still going to sound bad. An autotuned bad singer just sounds so arti