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Books Media The Internet

Public Libraries Trading Quaintness For Cash 295

Posted by michael from the overdue dept.
theodp writes "To help nourish lean budgets, public libraries are increasingly eyeing the e-commerce used-book market as an alternative to the long-standing community tradition of the local book sale. Abebooks reports a tenfold surge in public library clients over the last three years. The payoff can be handsome. One library group boasts of getting $250 for a few boxes of 'miserable, horrible stuff' and another $110 from a World War II vet for a book about his Army regiment. A public library in Texas auctioned 300 items on eBay to help plug a budget hole. And a Seattle suburb moved its annual library sale of some 80,000 books to Amazon, citing expediency and extra cash as motivators."
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Public Libraries Trading Quaintness For Cash

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  • sounds like a good idea (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BattleTroll ( 561035 ) <battletroll2002@yahoo.com> on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:03PM (#7610934)
    This sounds like a good idea to me. Why not put the books out there where supply and demand takes hold? If they can get more money by selling to broader audience, more power to them.

    • Re:sounds like a good idea (Score:5, Interesting)

      by randyest ( 589159 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:36PM (#7611186) Homepage
      It is a good idea. So good, in fact, that I'm personally a little disappointed that the libraries are figuring it out so soon.

      See, a few years ago I started using amazon.com to sell some of my old books. Amazed that crap I'd give away garnered $10, $20, and in some cases $30 or more, I started keeping a database of the list (and in my cases, sale) prices of used books on amazon. Then I started seeking out the top sellers at local used bookstores, garage sales, whatever. Whenever I found a big stack of cheap books, I'd often buy them all (or most) and then list them on amazon (which is free to do, in contrast with ebay). If they sell, great (70-80% do). If not, nothing lost other than a few minutes time typing in the ISDN number and setting a price.

      Especially when I enabled my amazon "will ship internationally" seller option, I found amazing demand (often from overseas) for books that I could get for free or cheap (such as old editions of Dietel's C How to Program which sell quite well in India).

      I suppose it's good that the libraries are getting a clue and taking advantage of this -- I just wish I had a little more time to make some more profits first :)
      • It is a good idea. So good, in fact, that I'm personally a little disappointed that the libraries are figuring it out so soon.

        I'm pretty disappointed it's taken them so long. Unload the old, and free up some resources to bring in the new!

      • real disturbing trend missed here (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @03:27PM (#7611583)
        The real disturbing trend is that libraries are subscribing to periodical databases instead of building thier own hard copy or microfilm ones. This means the library is at the mercy of the periodical database owner rather than owner of the physical documents.

        Rarely accessed obscure journals, newspapers, documents will eventually be dropped from databases and thus not be available to anyone at any cost.

        A secondary issue is the case of someone claiming copyright ownership of public domain material because they scanned it in and serve it on web pages.

    • As it stands, people could probably make a pretty penny by going to the public library, buying up the books for a quarter a piece then selling them online. It would be a good way to turn a $50 investment into $500.. (I've been tempted, I've noticed several of the books I bought from Amazon marketplace have library marks on them. So there are people who've fallen for the temptation.)

      Personally, I love the fact that the library's bargain basement sales would give a small library to people who otherwise woul
      • Another thing that people do at the library sales around here is go to the big library sales and buy every SF/Fantasy paperback for 10 to 25 cents apiece, no matter what they are, then carry them to the local used paperback store and trade them 2 for 1 for the books they really want from the used bookstore.

        I've done this on a small scale (buying a handfull of books that I *might* want to read and then ending up trading them in), but I know people who do it wholesale. I'm not sure what I think about it --
    • I have no problem with libraries selling extra copies of some 50's pulp fiction to gain a buck.

      However, I hope they are really scrutinizing about which items they auction off.

      Around here (Berkeley, CA) the libraries are a repository of historical documents, interesting maps that were donated by other government agencies, etc. The City needs them, but uses them very rarely (like in some property dispute that goes back a long ways). I'm facinated by the local history in this area, and use the maps and books

      • For the most part what happens is that a library will buy twenty copies of a best seller when there is a long queue for the book, then sell the best sellers when the demand dies down.

        You are correct in realizing the danger that online sale pose to the repository portions of the library. The natural library cycle dumps best sellers at the bottom of the market. The big money is in the hard to find books and out of print books. Out of print books can sell for more than the original publishing price.

        There i

  • Support your local library (Score:5, Funny)

    by djh101010 ( 656795 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:03PM (#7610935) Homepage Journal
    And here I've been helping fund them by bringing back their books after they're overdue and paying the fines. Turns out I could just buy the books from them on eBay. Who knew?

  • While they're at it (Score:4, Informative)

    by jmerelo ( 216716 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:04PM (#7610946) Homepage Journal
    Why not consider BookCrossing [bookcrossing.com] too? Free the public library books!

  • Funding (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Medieval ( 41719 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:04PM (#7610950) Homepage
    Maybe if we gave the libraries more actual funding they wouldn't need to turn to good old-fashioned capitalism to raise the funds they need to stay current.
    • And this money comes from where? Old-fashioned capitalism?

      Ebay is great, it's established an actual market for used items, why not sell at the market price?

      You suggest raising funding (and therefore taxes) to support what? Selling library books (public assets) at below market value? Let me guess, you also blast the White House for the no-bid gov't contracts in Iraq because they may have paid above market rates...

      Alex
    • Around these parts, Libraries are mostly funded through Levy's on property. We recently had a "replacement levy" on the ballot... I voted against it, not because I'm against funding the libraries but because this replacement levy was for twice the amount of the levy that was expiring. The school system did the same thing last year. I wonder how many libraries are losing funding because of the greed effect?

      For the record, I would have voted to re-instate the levy that was expiring, but felt that with p

    • people who actually use libraries would have to bear the cost of having the books availabe (through membership fees, donations, selling old books, whatever). I honestly don't think I've used a public library in the last 15-20 years (I'm only 27)...and I certainly don't think I should have to pay for something I never use.

      • Re:Maybe if we ended public funding... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by EvilNTUser ( 573674 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:36PM (#7611183)

        "people who actually use libraries would have to bear the cost -- I certainly don't think I should have to pay for something I never use."

        Yeah, and then poor people couldn't afford information. Wonderful.

        • >Yeah, and then poor people couldn't afford information. Wonderful.

          Is this not the proper role of charity? Or do you so lack in a belief of the goodness of mankind as to think that things such as libraries would exist only through compulsary funding?

          • "Or do you so lack in a belief of the goodness of mankind"

            Yes.

        • "people who actually use libraries would have to bear the cost -- I certainly don't think I should have to pay for something I never use."

          Hmm. Do you think you should only have to pay for the roads you actually drive on? Do you think that people without children shouldn't pay the portion of their property taxes that support schools? Do you think you should only have to pay for the fire department if you call them? Do you think that if you drive everywhere you shouldn't have to pay for sidewalks? Do you t

      • Re:Maybe if we ended public funding... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by RatBastard ( 949 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:42PM (#7611228) Homepage
        Yes, but the resource is there if you ever need it. I haven't called the police in 13 years, and even then it was to report an automobile accident I saw, but I don't mind paying taxes in order for them to be there when I need them.

        There are a lot of public resources I don't choose to use that I don't mind paying for. Not everything is about me.
        • Yes, but the resource is there if you ever need it. I haven't called the police in 13 years, and even then it was to report an automobile accident I saw, but I don't mind paying taxes in order for them to be there when I need them.

          Actually, in a lot of ways, your tax money is being best utilized if you never have to call the police.

      • Re:Maybe if we ended public funding... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by randyest ( 589159 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:47PM (#7611264) Homepage
        I certainly don't think I should have to pay for something I never use.

        That's one of those sorts of statements that sound reasonable at first reading, but fall apart after further contemplation:

        Even if you never drive a car, the publicly-funded roads benefit you by helping to reduce shipping costs for the products you buy.

        Even if you never have kids, the publicly-funded school systems benefit you by helping to improve the education of those with whom you share a society (and to whom you might otherwise be contributing more tax dollars for welfare/entitlement programs).

        I'd say libraries similarly benefit you even if you never visit one.
        • Even if you never drive a car, the publicly-funded roads benefit you by helping to reduce shipping costs for the products you buy.

          Assuming I never drive a car, but buy lots of products, it's not likely I'm paying much for roads, since a large portion of the cost of roads comes from gasoline tax. So, this is sort of an inverse example. Of course it benefits me to gain benefit from something I never pay for.

          Even if you never have kids, the publicly-funded school systems benefit you by helping to improv

          • Re:Maybe if we ended public funding... (Score:5, Interesting)

            by randyest ( 589159 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @03:40PM (#7611713) Homepage
            OK, now I'm pretty sure you're trolling, but I'll bite anyway.

            Assuming I never drive a car, but buy lots of products, it's not likely I'm paying much for roads, since a large portion of the cost of roads comes from gasoline tax. So, this is sort of an inverse example. Of course it benefits me to gain benefit from something I never pay for.

            I have no idea what portion of road funding comes from gas taxes, and neither do you. The point stands, however; whether or not you directly use something should not necessarily be the deciding factor in whether or not you pay a share for it.

            First, even though I do pay for public schools, there are still lots of uneducated (or just stupid?) people around. So it seems my money is just being wasted. Second, the whole "you might otherwise be contributing more tax dollars for..." arguments is kind of silly. I question having to subsidize the activities of others, and you respond with "well, you would still have to do it anyway". The point is, if someone wants to be educated, they should have to pay for it. If they choose not to be educated (i.e. qualify for welfare, etc.) they should have to pay for that too (where in this case, "paying for it" means simply living with the consequences).

            Yeah, great logic! Since there is still crime, why don't we get rid of the police, too? Seems the money is just being wasted and all, just like schools and dumb people, right? Wrong. Your ideology is confusing your economics. And you called my argument silly? Ha ha.

            If it's cheaper to fund schools than pay welfare for 50% of the population, then it's a better deal for everyone if we collectively fund schools instead of increased welfare.

            I couldn't pay my own way through college -- I had to get grants and loans (mostly grants) from Uncle Sam (read: from tax money). So, your taxes paid my way through school. Bad deal? No, because now I pay lots of taxes (much, much more than I would had I remained uneducated with low pay). And now we both benefit.

            I'm afraid you're one of those "uneducated (or just stupid?)" people if you really think this way (and again, I doubt it -- you are trolling for sure with this contrived nonsense).

      • How should a six-year-old girl who uses the library pay for it then?
      • I honestly don't think I've used a public library in the last 15-20 years (I'm only 27)...and I certainly don't think I should have to pay for something I never use.

        We'll ignore for a minute the obvious counterpoint that the American principle of equal opportunity based on merit implies that information should be available regardless of wealth.

        Even without that, consider that the availability of information in books is entirely what modern civilization is constructed from. If civilization collapsed due
      • Interesting point. You're funding I-10 all the way from Jacksonville to Los Angeles, but have you driven it in it's entirety?

        There are a good many things that are of benefit to this country that are funded with public dollars. How many times in your lifetime have you had to call the police of firemen? Generally speaking, you're not using them, but you're paying for them anyway. Lighting on public streets you never drive on, trash collections in neighborhoods you don't visit, etc...

        Libraries are, IMH

    • Re:Funding (Score:5, Insightful)

      by JonTurner ( 178845 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:28PM (#7611135) Journal
      >>Maybe if we gave the libraries more actual funding...

      <sarcasm> Of course! Why hold a government library to the unrealistic standards of being financially responsible when we can just force the taxpayers to cough up some more money to cover their inefficiencies? </sarcasm>

      >>...they wouldn't need to turn to good old-fashioned capitalism to raise the funds they need to stay current.

      You say that as if it's a dirty word. What's wrong with capitalism? Under it, scarcity encourages innovation of exactly the sort we're seeing here: rather than dumping these used books in the landfill or selling them for pennies each they're being sold to willing buyers, yielding a much higher return to the library which is free to pour that money back into it's operations to either
      1) reduce operating expenses, lessening it's burden on the taxpayer, or
      2) EXPAND operations at the same cost to the taxpayer.

      I don't see the problem here.

      • Re:Funding (Score:3, Interesting)

        by GlassHeart ( 579618 )
        Of course! Why hold a government library to the unrealistic standards of being financially responsible when we can just force the taxpayers to cough up some more money to cover their inefficiencies?

        Unfortunately, not funding government doesn't mean it can or will become more efficient with the money it does have. Quite often, it will end up cutting essential programs and services, rather than providing the same level of service at lower cost. Now, I'm not saying governmental efficiency is not a worthy goa

        • What's the (capitalist market) value of a generation of children with free access to the classic writings?

          If that's the goal of Public Libraries - they should all close shop, and give each new child a PDA with all 10,000 Project Gutenberg books on ROM.

      • Maybe if we gave the libraries more actual funding

        I agree, this was a very poorly thought through statement. I encourage and vote for funding and give friends of the library donations to the local University library. Regardless of the amount of funding, there isn't an excuse to spend the funding poorly.

        U.S. Libraries should be run in the tradition of Ben Franklin and watch each and every penny. They should get every dime they can from book sales. By undercutting the market with subsidized book sales, th

      • Libraries are good values (Score:3, Interesting)

        by hey! ( 33014 )
        Of course! Why hold a government library to the unrealistic standards of being financially responsible when we can just force the taxpayers to cough up some more money to cover their inefficiencies?

        What makes you say libraries are financially irresponsible? My own public library is very responsible. I don't see layers and layers of administration; they just have a head librarian, a reference librarian, a children's librarian and assistant, and a few hardworking assistants. Basically other than some of
    • What's wrong with "good old-fashioned capitalism"?

      Libraries need a free market solution to their funding. This is a tricky problem, given the expectation that libraries need to be "free beer" institutions.

      Used book sales are just one tiny and insufficient step towards free market free libraries. But it's a step nonetheless. We also need a return to financial patronage of free libraries. I frequently hear of endowments to college libraries, but when was the last time you ever heard of someone endowing a lo
    • Don't get me wrong; I realize that increased funding would come from the American taxpayer, but the headline of the /. article seems to be a complaint that they are 'selling out' for money.
    • Selling used books is "actual funding". It's actual money that the libraries actually use to buy new books and pay staff.

      What's your real issue? Are you happy that libraries are getting more money? You don't sound like it. Or are you unhappy that they are getting more money in a way that offends your political conventions?

    • less people use libraries (for books). So libraries get less funding. Okay, so I can't back that statement up with any articles, but just based on what I see the few times I've visited a library recently, the media centres are much more prominent and widely used than anything else. I'm sure that libraries divide their budgets between books and computers, and most right now spend a large portion of the budgets on computers to keep the public coming in.
      In other words, no point in the public tax funds fundi
    • Maybe if we gave the libraries more actual funding they wouldn't need to turn to good old-fashioned capitalism to raise the funds they need to stay current.

      What's wrong with good old-fashioned capitalism?

      It's not like library patrons are getting screwed here, in any way. The books that are being sold are books that were being removed from the collections anyway, and probably would have ended up in a dumpster.

      I don't see why libraries, or schools or corporations or individuals citizens, shouldn't be sel

  • Good for them (Score:5, Insightful)

    by exhilaration ( 587191 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:05PM (#7610954)
    I've been to plenty of local library sales and not only do most people simply ignore them, but less 10% of the books are sold.

    I don't see any reason for libraries to go through the enormous trouble of organizing a local sale just to keep a handful of patrons happy. If they can get rid of them online, more power to them.

    • How does a library sell online the 00's of books typically seen at a library book sale ? It seems the act of cataloguing and offering them for sale, then packaging and shipping them would be onerous, unless you involve a middleman, in which case a good chunk of the margin goes away. Maybe for the special cases they describe it might be worth it, but I can't see the average library selling too much of their junk like this. Not to mention the fact that the books may well have had glued-on card-sleeves, may
      • "It seems the act of cataloguing and offering them for sale, then packaging and shipping them would be onerous"

        Cataloging? Onerous? For a library? Have you been in a libray? Cataloging and tracking the books is done. That is their day job. Sure the shipping and that might take some time, but probably not as much time as organizing and promoting a book sale, and then staffing it, and then carting all the unsold books where ever it is they go.
        • Cataloging? Onerous? For a library? Have you been in a libray? Cataloging and tracking the books is done.

          Yeah, but the automation systems don't have some "Export selected titles to an XML file to send to Amazon over SOAP" button you can click. As well-defined as library data is, there aren't that many tools [sf.net] for handling it outside of the automation system.

      • Volunteers?

        On the other hand, the overhead in shipping a book to a customer is something libraries are already set up for--it's not much different than sending books out for inter-library loan, and it's hardly different at all from books that they mail to shut-in patrons.

        Also, if a library is doing this instead of an annual sale, the work can be spread out over an entire year. If they only do one or two a day, it's not a big deal, but it amounts to the same thing and the big annual sale.

    • 10%? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Lagged2Death ( 31596 )

      I've been to plenty of local library sales and not only do most people simply ignore them, but less 10% of the books are sold.

      My experience has been otherwise. My family has been involved in organization, setup, and cleanup of the local library's book sale for as long as I can remember. I'd have to say, as a sort of wild guess, that if "only" 70% of the books offered sell, we consider that a poor sale.

      I don't see any reason for libraries to go through the enormous trouble of organizing a local sale j

      • Re:10%? (Score:2, Informative)

        by ContraB ( 18852 )
        I've been to plenty of local library sales and not only do most people simply ignore them, but less 10% of the books are sold.

        My experience has been otherwise. My family has been involved in organization, setup, and cleanup of the local library's book sale for as long as I can remember. I'd have to say, as a sort of wild guess, that if "only" 70% of the books offered sell, we consider that a poor sale.

        I don't see any reason for libraries to go through the enormous trouble of organizing a local sale just

  • This is excellent (Score:5, Interesting)

    by HMA2000 ( 728266 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:06PM (#7610964)
    My friend works in a used book store. He is also an obsessed bibliophile. Anyway, he ran into some hard times and had to sell a lot of his books. They were mostly trash that he would never read anyway. He put them up on bookfinder.com and got on average about $75/box of books (about 50-70 book/box) with some books going for well over $100. I remember thinking as he was doing that "Man the library could make a killing on this type of stuff" Too bad I never followed up on that I could have been a "consultant" ;)
  • I really enjoy books, and my budget restricts what I can buy new so I frequent library sales, now I can do that from the comfort of my chair...

  • brilliant (Score:5, Insightful)

    by moquist ( 233465 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:07PM (#7610972) Homepage
    This sounds like a brilliant idea to me. I have a friend who theorizes that the function of technology is always to "remove the middle" somehow, and it's easy to see how the Internet "removes the middle" of the commerce chain, by more directly linking buyers and sellers.

    Sure, there may be a loss of quaintness, but if the gain is that more people are getting books they want at prices they like, and libraries are getting more money to get new materials, who's really loosing out?

    I've got a wheelbarrow-full of musty old books I bought at a library sale, if anybody's bidding...

    • Re:brilliant (Score:2, Insightful)

      by HMA2000 ( 728266 )
      That's easy enough to answer. It's the middle man that is losing out. Used book dealers will not be able to get the mark ups on some titles they used to get. Although I would bet that a majority of the purchasers of online book auctions are bookdealers so even their loss is mitigated.

    • Re:brilliant (Score:2, Insightful)

      by RealProgrammer ( 723725 )
      ...the function of technology is always to "remove the middle" ...

      That'a a corollary to, or a foundational fact for, what I call the Green Tennis Shoes Principle:

      Somewhere there is a person whose very favorite thing is green tennis shoes.

      They think they're alone. Someone else has a steady supply of green tennis shoes, but no one they know wants green tennis shoes. The Internet allows these people to communicate and find more people who are interested in their prize footwear.

  • XHAKTLY! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MikeCapone ( 693319 ) <skelterhell@yah o o .com> on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:09PM (#7610990) Homepage Journal
    And it's a good thing for us book lovers too.

    More used books available online, but especially more OUT OF PRINT used books...
  • To sell used books on Amazon, a private individual generally has to type in the details of their normally small inventory, then create some make-shift packaging to ship it to the new owner. This is a big disadvantage compared to the local garage sale.

    In comparison, libraries are on the other side of the equation. They have a hassle of moving large numbers of books around to try to sell them physically locally, but already have all the book details in electronic form.

    This means that a library can not only just use Amazon's AWS services to load all their available titles directly into Amazon's online used book database using XML over http or SOAP, but can use the outputs of sales information to take the titles out of their systems and automatically print-up shipping information for the new owner.

    In this case it's easy to see why libraries would be flocking to data fed book sales in droves, especially when you add in the factor of obscure books finding the "right" buyer from a much larger customer base, versus the usually limited local audience. Those advantages more than outweigh the extra costs of shipping.

  • And I'll be sad to see them go... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pq ( 42856 ) <rfc2324&yahoo,com> on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:09PM (#7610997) Homepage
    Online sales are great - the convenience of finding exactly what I'm looking for on Amazon or Alibris (or whatever else floats your boat) is hard to beat. And used books are logical online: ever-lower transaction costs, an ever-more frictionless exchange of one man's mildewy junk for another man's prized first edition.

    But books ... there's a certain romance to browsing piles and piles of old books, never knowing what gem you'll find in the next shoebox. I miss the huge "Friends of the Library" booksales in Ithaca (at one time, the largest used book sale in North America): for ten bucks, you could stagger out with shopping bags full of stuff.

    Now, living in New Mexico in the middle of nowhere, I do appreciate Amazon. And I do understand that public libraries need to make a buck, because rich people need their tax breaks more than they need a thriving community around them. But I'll be sad to see the used book sales go.

  • Who will enjoy them more? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by pavon ( 30274 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:13PM (#7611028)
    Sounds good to me. In all the examples given the books ended up with people who will really enjoy them, as oppossed to the normal clearence sale method where people often just grab something random that looks like it might be interesting, and half the time it just ends up in the dumpster or used book store anyway. On top of that the library makes some money which helps it make more books freely available to the public.

    There is the rare case where someone local will really want a book, so perhaps they could be given first preference, but all in all it sounds like a win-win to me.

  • Why not? No other funding is available (Score:3, Flamebait)

    by Ars-Fartsica ( 166957 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:14PM (#7611034)
    Maybe this wouldn't be an issue if education, libraries, and other intellectual infrastructure was being funded at levels accepted as a minimum elsewhere in the industrialized world.
    • What do you mean no funding is available? A large portion of my property tax dollars go towards funding the local public library system which I will probably never use.

      I am not complaining about it because I believe libraries serve an important function. What I am pointing out is that libraries are funded - and that it's a lot of money.

      This country was founded on the basis of limited government and the ability of the public to spend their money based on their own priorities rather than having the governme

  • Selling quaint is not necessarily a bad thing. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by supabeast! ( 84658 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:15PM (#7611041)
    One thing to keep in mind about those quaint old books in libraries is that many of them are older reference books full of incorrect or nearly-useless information. Much of this stuff is just wasting shelf space and rotting away, and the books would be better off in a private collection or a museum. The way I see it, better the library sell off old encyclopedias full of outdated geopolictical and scientic information and buy current, useful books, than for a kid researching data-storage technology to go to the library and not be able to find a book on the subject among endless shelves of twentieth-century remnants.

  • Death of Bargains (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:24PM (#7611112)
    Ebay ended real garage sale bargains.... and now if libraries start posting online it will be the end of the $0.50 hardback bargain book.

    My mom bought our first encyclopedia from a local library for $15. Not that encylopedia's will be sold online or are even useful nowadays, but you get the point.

    On the other hand, its great for the Library system I guess, as public funds are obviously lacking (that same local library was shut down less than 10 months ago).

    But on the other other hand, why weren't these invaluable books (such as the WWII diary) kept in the library itself and made available to the public??? I never donate books to the library, because public libraries (at least the ones i've been to) have a policy of not incorporating donated books into their collections.

    My family donated a set of classic childrens novels to the local library (which we knew they did not currently have available for public borrowing) thinking we would be helping the community's youth, but instead we found our donated books on the book sale shelves being sold for $0.25 and $0.50 a piece. We ended up buying all of the books that were left, back, and never donated books again.

    • Re:Death of Bargains (Score:3, Insightful)

      by makohund ( 10086 )
      Libraries generally accept most donations, including books of course. But part of the libraries job is to maintain a good collection... often within limited space. They can't put every donated book on the shelf, and one shouldn't assume that they will. Remember, the reason these book sales exist is to weed the collection. A sometimes difficult task (most librarians would love to keep most everything if they could) that needs to be done.

      If possible, donated books will be looked over, the same way. But

  • Even Goodwill is starting to do this (Score:5, Informative)

    by CatGrep ( 707480 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:24PM (#7611114)
    Our local GoodWill has two 'outlet' stores.
    Basically these are large warehouses where the stuff that didn't sell at the regular GoodWill store ends up in large bins and is sold by the pound. We call it simply 'The Bins' and it has spawned an interesting sub-culture of it's own.

    It's a great place to go look for books (books are seperated and put in their own bins so you don't have to claw though clothes to find them) and lots of eBay/half.com sellers go there to buy books for 25 cents each (50cents for hardbacks). When new book bins come out it's a frenzy of books flying as the book sellers elbow each other for position. How do I know? I visited the book bins last August and September to make money to live on.

    Now, GoodWill has gotten wise and they pre-screen the books that go into the bins for sale on various online outlets, so it's not quite as lucrative visiting the bins anymore.

  • Friends of the Library (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Eberlin ( 570874 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:27PM (#7611125) Homepage
    In the public library I work at, the offloading of books goes to the "Friends of the Library" group which seems to handle a bit of the funding (the parts that don't come from government, that is) They'd have a local monthly book sale for anything they can't/don't keep, then redistribute the funds for the betterment of the library. Modernizing machinery, billboards, supplies for the children's section, etc.

    From what I know of the members of the "Friends" where I'm at, they're not very computer savvy, and I'm not sure how they'd handle maintaining stuff with e-bay and amazon. Also, while it seems like a good marketplace, there's the additional burden of storage space. How long do you keep an item for sale before you realize it won't get bought and should be "recycled" instead? On a local sale, it's easier to decide. With a global audience, people tend to wait out a bit longer than they should.

    In the long run, though, any good way to raise funds for local libraries is a welcome thought. Oh...and visit your local library. :)

  • Shop your library! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by pair-a-noyd ( 594371 )
    I just picked up "Dreamweaver 4 Bible"
    and "Fireworks 4 Bible" with unopened CD's still in the back, ONE DOLLAR EACH.

    The library sold them off because no one was checking them out. The retail on those books is $50 each.

    The books are in virgin condition.

    Though I am A Linux man, I regretably confess that I am using a winbloz 2k box on the side to develope two commercial websites for customers.
    (Don't ask, long story..)

    I find excellent bargains in the library all the time like this..

  • Better the libraries than ... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by BallPeenHammer ( 720987 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:51PM (#7611294)
    I've worked on a number of book sales for my local library, and guess who their best customers are? Book dealers. Book dealers go to many local library sales, are the first in the doors, and swoop on all the best and most valuable stuff before the ordinary patrons roll out of bed. Then they resell the merch themselves.

    Why shouldn't the libraries get the top dollar for their books? They're perennially short on the crispies and use it for the benefit of the community.

  • Why not make the books available for loan? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Futurepower(R) ( 558542 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:53PM (#7611319) Homepage

    Everyone seems to be missing the point. The libraries are selling the books rather than putting them on the shelves!

    They do this because of commercial pressure. If everyone donated their old CDs and videos to the library, it would be unnecessary to rent or buy any of the older ones; you could borrow them. Somehow the people who want to corrupt the system, apparently publishers, have gotten control over the libraries. Have your ever noticed that the CDs and videos in the library are never the latest albums and movies? Certainly by now some family has decided not to let their children watch "Finding Nemo" any more times.

    Everyone posting is so willingly believing that all the donated books are ones no one would want to check out of a library. But that's not so. For example, there are many books I would donate if I knew I could check them out later.

    However, the librarians of the Multnomah County Central Library (in Portland, Oregon, U.S.A.) have told me that putting a book in their system costs $30, and somehow it is cheaper to buy a new one! Over the years I have often mentioned the illogic in this. But all of them continue parroting the same line.

    Consider the doctrine of first sale [ncsu.edu], in which you are allowed to do anything you want with your legally purchased copyrighted material, if you do not make a copy. Publishers have corrupted the doctrine of first sale so that copying into RAM [duke.edu] to listen it or view it has been considered an illegal copy.

    • Re:Why not make the books available for loan? (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Well, many of the books that go into booksales are books that have been REMOVED from the library shelves. There are a variety of reasons for weeding a particular book; not being checked out is chief among them. Of course we have to weed the shelves, in order to make room for the new stuff.

      Other things that would be sold certainly are donated books. I know it's hard when you donate stuff that you expect to see on the shelves and then it gets sold; it happened to me two months ago. But a human being has

    • Acquisitions costs (Score:3, Informative)

      by Jaeger ( 2722 ) *

      the librarians ... have told me that putting a book in their system costs $30

      Putting a book in a library collection is not as easy as taking it from the Donations bucket and putting randomly on the shelves. For the book to be useful, it has to be cataloged, which means not only entering the title and author from the title page, but figuring out where to shelve it in the library's specific collection (some libraries may be content to throw, for example, all programming books in one section, while othe

    • YOU'RE missing the point.

      The libraries are selling the books rather than putting them on the shelves!

      You know why? There's no SPACE on the shelves. Many, many public libraries are filled almost to overflowing. To add a new book to the collection, you often have to take an old book out of the collection. If that means sacrificing 'DOS 5.0 for Dummies' or the most dog-eared of the 20 copies of Shakespeare's Hamlet, so be it.

      Have your ever noticed that the CDs and videos in the library are never the
    • Your train of thought is typical of a cynical youth who has no idea of how libraries actually work. Nice try, though.

      First of all, there is little or no commercial pressure to keep materials out of libraries because of fear of lost sales. That's too politically dangerous for any publisher -- of books, periodicals, or even music or film. No one would dare try it, because being caught would be PR suicide, as well as against the law. There are laws that protect libraries from this kind of pressure. The b
  • BTW if you're interested in information technology you may want to check this out [tk421.net]. There's also several other full-fledged [lisnews.com] LIS news sources on the Web.

  • How can the BAA allow this to happen? (Score:3, Funny)

    by raehl ( 609729 ) <raehl311.yahoo@com> on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @02:59PM (#7611372) Homepage
    Having libraries make these books available is a clear violation of the intellectual property of the authors and publishing companies. When people just log on the internet and have the book they want shipped to them without paying for a copy from the publisher, they're basically stealing that book from the author who wrote it. If the BAA allows this to continue, soon there will be no books at all because authors won't be able to feed themselves.
  • Library sales are a major source of a lot of the dealers already on amazon. The books are going to end up there anyway; if the libraries can sell them directly, I say more power to them.

  • It figures (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Go Aptran ( 634129 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2003 @04:13PM (#7612065)
    Libraries might as well sell them online, as that's where most of the better books are destined to go anyway.

    I'm a book collector (and reader) and on the MANY occasions that I went to library sales, there would always be a small cadre of used booksellers grabbing up everything potentially interesting and adding it to their stock, both online and off. Unless you were aggressive and quick, the chances of being able to find something interesting was minimal and I eventually stopped bothering. It's the same reason I stopped borrowing books from libraries. The most interesting ones get stolen or are marked "reference" and are not loaned out.

    I even knew of one unscrupulous bookseller who would volunteer to help sort the books the night before so his partner could swoop in and grab anything of value ahead of the pack.

    Some libraries charged $3 - $5 dollars per book on the first day to give people who actually wanted to purchase books TO READ (remember reading books?) a chance. That would scare off some of the more virulent booksellers, or at least make them more picky. I found some amazingly rare things at those sales.

    Mod me +1 Nostalgic if you like, but I can't stand buying books online. You pay a hefty handling and shipping markup... and you lose out on the experience of being surrounded by old books that you can actually touch.

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