Instant Live Concert Recordings 373
WebGangsta writes "The AP is reporting that there's a new device out that allows you to record a concert... legally. It works because it's run by the venue, direct from the mixing board. After the show, concert-goers visit an on-site kiosk and purchase a 128MB keydrive (which may or may not be proprietary to the system). Then they swipe their credit card again to download the concert they just attended to the keydrive. The MP3 can then be shared with whoever they'd like (no restrictions on copying the show to friends)." We've had some previous stories about a different system with CD-R's available after the show.
Cool but could be cooler. (Score:2, Insightful)
If I went to a show and it was good, I'd definitely pay $10.00 to download a digital copy of it.
The keychain thing is an unnecessary gimmick and won't last.
Re:Cool but could be cooler. (Score:5, Insightful)
But if you are half drunk and trying to work some kiosk, you'll probably pay $40.00 for a copy of a terrible show, perhaps even accidentally paying for it twice as you fumble around with the keychain while trying not to spill your beer.
Re:Cool but could be cooler. (Score:5, Informative)
They do not tether DRM either, and still allow for audience to tape the shows with special taper tickets. Those can be freely traded, but the ones Phish provides is an honor system (what? a band that does not assume that their fans are out to rip them off? Someone call the RIAA)
Re:Cool but could be cooler. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Cool but could be cooler. (Score:3, Insightful)
And yes, you can get a poor AUD recording. But a mediocre AUD recording will beat the best SBD in my opinion.
Re:Cool but could be cooler. (Score:5, Insightful)
This may be so, but, it might also make a great souvenir, especially if it had the bands logo on it. Then, you could put the concert on your computer, or wherever else, and still have a handy USB drive/momento. Even if they allow people to use their own drive, there could be those who prefer the "Jon Bon Jovi Still Rocks (he swears) Tour" memorobilia!
It's good to see that people are trying to embrace technology instead of fighting it. It's not a crime to try and make a buck, but lets see some innovation! Let's some value added, and incentive. !
Re:Cool but could be cooler. (Score:4, Interesting)
DRM-free FLAC files can be downloaded with a few days of a concert happening.
Re:Cool but could be cooler. (Score:3, Insightful)
Come on mod's spend points where they are needed. I don't care if this is OT, I hate kharma whores. No wonder
Ok, more ontopic: if this technology succeeds
Meet me in the parking lot after the show... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Meet me in the parking lot after the show... (Score:4, Informative)
I know this is modded as Funny. I also know that someone is bound to do something like this. However, I've gotta ask: How does anyone win at this game when people have attitudes like this? Damned if you use DRM, damned if you don't. $10 for a digital recording of a concert I just attended is a very reasonable price to me. I think they have the right price point here; at $15, I would consider it somewhat expensive.
I'm not trolling here; I really would be interested in some /. opinions here. Because digital media can be pirated at near zero cost, all it takes is a couple of people to completely destroy a new technology. Personally, I think this is a really cool idea and would hate to see it sunk this way. It sucks to admit, but DRM is inevitable. The innate greed within people will always exist (both the suits who want to squeeze every penny and the vast majority of the public who wants everything for free, ethics be damned).
Wait, that was illegal? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wait, that was illegal? (Score:5, Informative)
I think Phish lets you do this also...and others. But then again, this may be a thing of the past.
And that's the Grateful Dead...not Greatfull (Score:2)
But that's obvious
Re:Wait, that was illegal? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Wait, that was illegal? (Score:2)
TW
Re:Wait, that was illegal? (Score:4, Funny)
> Greatfull Dead used to let you hook right into
> the mixing board to record the concert...which
> is why there are so many good Dead bootlegs out there.
Good news for all the Brittney Spears and Justin Timberlake fans! You can now own a CD copy of the concert you have just seen!
Trick is its the CD that you already own that the artists have just spent the last 74 minutes miming to.
Re:Wait, that was illegal? (Score:5, Interesting)
Nothing "in the past" about it. Phish, and many other bands in the jam band genre still sell "tapers tickets" and allow recording. These are usually the obstructed vies seats right behind the sound board that suck for viewing, but near perfect for recording.
Note Phish, and others, are now competing with the tapers by selling sound board recordings on the web. They have clearly stated it is still OK to record on your own. They usually are selling a far superior product, but are OK with the competition as they realize the marketing potential. I know I have been introduced to almost all my favorite bands through the free live recordings and gone on to spend tons of money on these bands going to their shows, buying their CDs, shirts, etc..
As far as I am concerned, the Dead, Phish, etc. are decades ahead of the rest of the music industry in dealing with likes of P2P, etc. The rest of the industry should study their business model seriously, as it is far superior to the doomed "litigate your way to success" strategy they are taking now. It doesn't seem like the Dead or Phish are having money troubles
Re:Wait, that was illegal? (Score:5, Interesting)
But it's interesting that I've always thought that the Dead kinda killed Jerry. Sure, his years of substance abuse had much to do with it. But when you get most of your income from touring, you have this huge "machine" that is dependant on you to keep going. Jerry didn't have much time to take time off and just relax. Yes, he had money, but you also have to think of the roadies and secretaries and other people that kept the Dead going...they had bills to pay and house mortgages etc. Jerry carried a huge weight on his shoulders.
But in the end, I feel like you, that this certainly should be the wave of the future in the music industry. The Dead and Phish certainly don't rely on hit records...as the Dead only had one hit in their long strange trip.
Re:Wait, that was illegal? (Score:3, Informative)
No, he was right. Letting audience members hook into the sound board is indeed a thing of the past. Phish banned this not because it competes with the soundboard recording that they sell (they weren't doing that so much at the time) but because of incidents where people who were taping directly from the board would touch things on the board they shouldn't or otherwise messed things up. When recording the show threatens to get in the way of the people at the show's enjoyment,
Livephish.com (Score:3, Informative)
The second option is Live Phish [livephish.com]. You can download shows roughly 24 hours after they've performed. Both MP3 and FLAC available (though FLAC is a bit more expensive, due to bandwidth). Each show is recorded directly from the soundboard mix, also comes with a setlist and c
Re:Wait, that was illegal? (Score:4, Informative)
Yes.
But it wasn't always illegal if it was for private use. An ancient concept called "fair use" would allow many people in the past to record things for their personal enjoyment. Allas, such a thing no longer exists according to official sources such as the RIAA, the MPAA and the US Congress.
TW
You're a winner! (Score:5, Informative)
"Fair use" doesn't mean "I think it's only fair that I get to copy and use this." Fair use is a statutory defense to a charge of copyright infringement that is available primarily to those who use a portion of a copyrighted work (not the entire concert, program, etc.) for educational or journalistic purposes, and is especially effective when that use is non-commercial. Fair use protects your local t.v. newscast when they show you a 30 second clip of the band playing at your local arena, or when you quote some of the lyrics to a song in a review. It does not protect you wanting to make copies of CDs for your friends or taping entire concerts without the permission of the artist.
Re:You're a winner! (Score:3, Insightful)
Does it also not cover reverse engineering on items you own, eg. examining something to see how it's made? Or how to say, play a tape you own on an operating system you own? Provided you don't make copies with that knowledge of course.
Re:You're a winner! (Score:3, Insightful)
The doctrine of fair use relates only to copyright infringement, in other words, to the act of copying a protected work.
Examining something to see how it's made doesn't usually entail copying anything (assuming you already have a legal copy), and so fair use simply doesn't apply here. Other legal niceties (e.g. DMCA) may well apply though.
Re:You're a winner! (Score:3, Insightful)
Really? The supreme court said "fair use" protects me while taping live concerts on TV, along with any other TV signal. It also protects me taping anything I want off the radio, including entire live concerts.
Why on earth do you think it only protects me if I copy a portion? There are many court cases that define fair use as covering the copying of entire works if the intended purpose is "fair".
TW
Er...Out of curiousity... (Score:2)
But it wasn't always illegal if it was for private use. An ancient concept called "fair use" would allow many people in the past to record things for their personal enjoyment.
Out of curiousity, would that really be a case of fair use? I mean...Just what are you "using" fairly? The ticket?
Re:Wait, that was illegal? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Wait, that was illegal? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Wait, that was illegal? (Score:2)
As with a lot of copyright issues, there is a lot of public misunderstanding about the law with regards to this type of thing. People have had it drummed into them that this type of thing is illegal, so they assume it is. But I think it is more complex than most people assume.
The main issues are:
a) It probably said in tiny writing on your ticket that you can't record it.
b) The performance is a copyrighted work.
However, I see no reason why copyright rules shouldn't app
Re:Wait, that was illegal? (Score:5, Insightful)
You can ban people from recording a performance because the performers own a copyright on the performance . . . this can get more difficult if the written music is also still under copyright, because then there is a copyright holder for the music and the performance . . . if these guys get into a fight, there can be significant distribution issues.
Re:Wait, that was illegal? (Score:2)
Not technically. There is no "recording live performances is illegal" rule.
It is illegal to make a recording of a performance without the performer's consent. At most concerts, attendees do not have that consent. As somebody else has pointed out, many jam bands do give permission, and you may tape away.
Compare this to "sharing" music. There is no blanket law that says "you are not allowed to give away copies of an MP3" -- but there is one that states that you can't make a copy of somebody else's cop
Re:Wait, that was illegal? (Score:3, Interesting)
If the concert was performed for you, then you have the right to record it. However, the law never clearly specified who it was concerned to be performed for. You could make a case that the concert was considered to be performed for the owners of the performance venue. You could als
Of hand, I'd prefer ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Of hand, I'd prefer ... (Score:2)
It was a beautifull thing.
Cost (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Cost (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Cost (Score:2)
Re:Cost (Score:2)
Usually the others "look" good, but can't play well.
Re:Cost (Score:2)
Re:Cost (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Cost (Score:3, Funny)
dude, I don't know where you are getting your coke from... o wait.. we're talking about something different...
Do the artists get a cut? (Score:5, Insightful)
If, on the other hand, it's artists only chance to make real money getting fucked over by yet another greedy corp (in this case Clear Channel the venue owners in a lot of places), then it's a bit much.
Wonlt Work for All Concerts... Won't Fit (Score:5, Interesting)
Hmm... USB keys with little bears on them... or perhaps a "combination" keychain/pipe!
Re:Wonlt Work for All Concerts... Won't Fit (Score:2)
Re:Wonlt Work for All Concerts... Won't Fit (Score:2)
smaller bands that play smaller venues sometimes allow it, but that also depends on the venue as well.
They'll use 192kbps/22kHz mp3... (Score:2)
Re:Wonlt Work for All Concerts... Won't Fit (Score:2, Funny)
Hahaha.
HAHAHAHAHAH.
hHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHhahahahahahaHA
Re:Wonlt Work for All Concerts... Won't Fit (Score:2)
FLAC (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:FLAC (Score:4, Informative)
Same quality. Sure, FLAC can fit 2x as much audio on a CD, but consider the number of CD players out there that play CDDA but not FLAC.
Better yet, how about 192kbps Vorbis?
And about this MP3 "crap":
In double-bind studies, self-proclaimed "audiophiles" were unable to tell the differece between a 256kbps MP3 (CBR, encoded with FLAC) and the uncompressed CD.
Now, of course, you don't want to transcode from one lossy format to another (or to another bitrate, for that matter). That's the true advantage of FLAC.
Re:FLAC (Score:3, Insightful)
Why the hell would you need to "rip" it if it's already in an encoded form?
Copying CD's doesn't introduce loss. Encoding to MP3 introduces loss, but if the copy is made without the lossy encoding step inbetween, there is no information lost....
Re:FLAC (Score:3, Funny)
Before: I won't buy music unless it's cheap and without DRM.
Now: Oh you got that? But it's mp3. I won't buy music unless it's cheap, without DRM and in FLAC.
Next: Oh you got that? But it's not on a purple Bluetooth drive. I won't buy music unless it's cheap, without DRM, in FLAC and on a purple Bluetooth drive.
Later: Oh you got that too? Um, damit... anybody has a good excuse I can use?
Gotta say ... (Score:5, Insightful)
For bands I've seen in smaller bars and clubs, I can't tell you the number of times I bought their CD (usually self-published) on the way out if I had a good time (as well as how many drinks I knocked down =D )
It's certainly smart to present the concert goer with the ability to make an impulse buy, right after they're coming off the high of enjoying a great concert ...
Re:Gotta say ... (Score:3, Interesting)
I have to wonder about the prices of cheap networked computers with 40x+ CD burners. For $1000, you could easily have 10 such machines networked and be able to pump out 10 CDs in about 5 minutes. This obviously isn't a solution for moderate to large shows, but for smaller
Re:Gotta say ... (Score:2)
1. Have some add-in cards to support the CD-Burners (Make sure the cards support ATAPI, btw.)
2. Make sure your hard drive can spool the data fast enough... although since you're burning the same data, heck, you could put 10 burners in one machine then.....
So, for a machine that's probably 700-1ghz (intel or amd pick your poison) at around 300$ (512mb ram, etc
Re:Gotta say ... (Score:3, Funny)
I've seen over 50 Dead concerts
Wow, and you can still remember how to use a tape recorder? ;-)
I'm glad to here that... (Score:2)
Wait, didn't the Greatful Dead allow this with a regular tape recorder for something like 25 years? They even set up a spot where you could put it so it would ge the best sound....
Ah, those were the days. Maybe if more musicians had the attitude of the Dead, this stuff wouldn't be "News."
We miss you Gerry.
Re:I'm glad to here that... (Score:4, Informative)
Secondly, there are other bands that do this: Pearl Jam, the Allman Brothers, and I'm pretty sure Phish, among others.
Re:I'm glad to here that... (Score:2)
as a bonus (Score:2)
Questionable quality of feeds from the board (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Questionable quality of feeds from the board (Score:2)
Re:Questionable quality of feeds from the board (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Questionable quality of feeds from the board (Score:2)
Re:Questionable quality of feeds from the board (Score:2)
But the nice thing about board feeds is that the only drunken idiots you get on tape are the actual band memebers.
It doesn't mess up your recording if someone walks over to you and starts ask
Re:Questionable quality of feeds from the board (Score:2, Interesting)
Yeh, I see this happening... NOT (Score:2, Insightful)
Second point: I just dont see anything new about recording a bootleg off the board, and selling it. Happens every day and has for YEARS.
Re:Yeh, I see this happening... NOT (Score:2, Insightful)
Also, a lot of bands are prefectly fine with recording bootlegs and sharing them all over the place. This just lets your average joe who might not know anything about taping a show get a soundboard copy of it.
Re:Yeh, I see this happening... NOT (Score:3, Insightful)
Read my post: Bands (MOST bands) and their management ARE NOT going to allow this. USE YOUR HEAD.
Also, a lot of bands are prefectly fine with recording bootlegs and sharing them all over the place."A lot" and in a lot of alturnative-non-commercial-still-puttin'-out-vinyl bands. Tha's fine. But any band you plunk down $35+ to see, ain't going to happen.
The modern floppy (Score:3, Insightful)
At 2gb, it's getting close to carrying around a DVD which acts like a floppy, and is just as portable.
This concert thing is a great use of the technology. I think these are going to eventually be wildly popular for many different uses.
This is nothing new! (Score:3, Informative)
It's a shame no one's giving PJ credit for this awesome idea.
--AC
Got ya' beat (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm sure that this very lucky concertgoer got an unbelievable recording when he got his recorder back, which I'm sure was right after the band spoke with the crippled kids who got to watch the show from ON STAGE.
Not only is PJ probably the best rock band of the 1990's (and 2000's, so far), but they're really great guys.
MP3 concert on 128M keychain? (Score:5, Informative)
I've been active on etree, StG, and similar for years, and before that I traded hand to hand. General rule (not of thumb, it's just a rule): if it's compressed, it's crap. We don't want it, and we don't want it to propogate. Because, assuredly, some dope will take his mp3 keychain, and pop it into Nero or whatever they have these days, and print out his own CD. Which will then be traded, and there will be a very sub-standard concert floating around.
"What we were seeing is that a large number of people were taking their CDs home and ripping them to MP3s, so we thought it would benefit music fans to eliminate that middle step," Reilly said.
First of all, I've learned never to trust anyone else when it comes to encoding audio. Secondly, if you can download the concert immediately afterwards, there's obviously no quality check step to make sure everything came out okay.
128M for 110s of recording time comes out to approx: 160kb/s. Totally unacceptable for live concerts.
Re:MP3 concert on 128M keychain? (Score:4, Funny)
Live Metallica (Score:3, Informative)
hoo boy (Score:5, Interesting)
(Sit back and moderate? Comment? What's a slashdotter to do...)
With all the DCMA/DRM/copyright FUD being thrown from monkey to monkey these days, it seems that some of us forget that recording a concert is not inherently illegal. There are many, many artists who encourage the taping and distributing of their live shows -- here's a list of more than 900 of them. [furthurnet.com] Furthermore, there's even a P2P client dedicated to sharing 100%-legal music [furthurnet.com]. That's right folks, the RIAA doesn't have anything to do with this.
Before I sit around and watch the comments pile up, there have been "devices" available for years that allow you to record a concert legally -- they're called tape recorders. These days, many serious hobbyist tapers are moving to a digital-only setup to cut down on loss of audio quality. (Wish I could give you model numbers or something, but that's what Google's for folks...)
Now, the "instant" bit of this is what's actually interesting. 'Course, you're dependent upon the venue for all this, and we know how much us slashdotters like being dependent upon stuff that doesn't smell like open-source/community-owned...
mod parent up! (Score:2)
many thanks!
Re:hoo boy (Score:3, Interesting)
Uh . . . hate to rain on the parade, but a tape recorder does not allow you to record a concert legally . The copyright owner allows or disallows you to record his/her/their performance legally. As the performer owns the copyright (and has an agreement with the music writers if the writers are not the same as the performers), they can
Re:hoo boy (Score:3, Insightful)
Performances are not copyrightable. The reason you can't record all performances is because the artists performing are free to set restrictions on what you are allowed to do in their venue. It has nothing to do with copyrights.
Good (Score:2, Insightful)
Whether it succeds or not will depend on the consumer... but I think this is a good effort.
Wanna bet that in Sony concerts... (Score:2)
I think CD or DVD are my preferred concert recording medias. I can compress them any which way I like afterwards. The last concert I saw was such that I would have liked to apply the physical kind of compression directly on the artist, though. R. Williams if you must know and yes, because the missus wanted to and yes, I was the dolt paying for it, thank you very much. Took 6 hours of AC/DC at high volumes and innumerab
Barenaked Ladies Concert MP3s (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Barenaked Ladies Concert MP3s (Score:4, Informative)
You might be interested in this -- a list of 900+ artists whose live music is available for free [furthurnet.com], usually in OGG/SHN/FLAC format, over networks like FurthurNet [furthurnet.com].
His Purpleness.. (Score:2)
Prince.... give him some cheese! (Score:2)
musciology
1. the scientific study of mice.
[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin musculus, diminutive of ms, mouse. See ms- in Indo-European Roots.]
Stupid medium (Score:5, Interesting)
The only advantage I see for this is that the keychains could be reusable, but even then, the cost of a burned CD is practically negiliable assuming this service costs more than $1.
I suppose the only REAL advantage you get is that the flash devices could be gang programmed more quickly, but if you were running more than a half dozen or so high-speed CD burners, you could crank out CDs as fast as you could take someone's money anyways.
Fripp on soundboard mixes (Score:3, Insightful)
-- source [discipline...mobile.com], the liner notes for 1994's B'Boom live album.
In other words, it really depends on the venue, when getting a "Front of House" (FoH) mix. The guy mixing the sound for the PA is aware that he's hearing the on-stage monitors and amplifiers as well as the PA, so guitar and bass sounds tend to be quieter, and drums can be quite hollow.
When this mix is your only source, it can be devestating to the recording when looking for something that should be more professional, like the Dixie Dregs concert on the Steve Morse DVD, where the mix cut the guitar to almost nothing because Morse keeps a rather loud on-stage amp stack.
Arena and Stadium gigs aren't as affected by this as club and theater shows would be. Then again, bands that can afford to do stadium shows can afford to have a second mixer on site producing a high-quality recording of the show independent of the FoH mix.
The Number of The Keydrive? (Score:2, Insightful)
$20 for the USB drive? (Score:2)
Instant Live Concert Recordings (Score:3, Funny)
That's right. Until now you could only get instant recordings of pre-recorded concerts. Now, with our cutting-edge "live concert" technology you can get instant recordings of live concerts.
I think it's time to get a new retarded monkey to write the headlines. This one's busticated.
-Peter
Why Bother With MP3? (Score:2, Insightful)
WAH (Score:2, Funny)
Remember, anything that can be copyrighted should be free, and anyone who tries to make a living writing, singing, performing, doing research, directing, producing, engineering, editing, designing, painting, sculpting or building should be driven out of business and live in a cardboard box until they throw away all their education and experience to
Neubauten (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:fp (Score:2)
Re:fp (Score:2)
Re:Isn't recording concerts legal? (Score:2)
Re:Isn't recording concerts legal? (Score:2)
Re:Isn't recording concerts legal? (Score:2)
Write-only :^) (Score:2, Funny)
Actually, I just burned a few el-cheapo CDRs that were apparently write-only, 'cause I couldn't read them afterwards.
Re:i was unaware... (Score:2)