FCC Plans to Allow Wireless Networking on Unused TV Channels 250
RKBA writes "Federal regulators have endorsed a plan to use vacant TV bandwidth for wireless Internet connections. Federal Communications Commission Chairman Michael Powell says it would 'dramatically increase' the availability and quality of wireless Internet connections -- especially for people in rural areas. Powell says it would be like 'doubling the number of lanes on a congested highway.' But TV broadcasters oppose the proposal. They argue that it would interfere with over-the-air television signals for millions of people. The FCC commissioners voted unanimously to begin the lengthy rulemaking process for the plan."
FCC: Government actually working right? (Score:5, Insightful)
The FCC is actively looking to recycle frequency space for bandwidth wherever possible. I'm not even sure this is a workable solution... but just the fact that they're even going to open hearings about it is good for the masses.
Re:FCC: Government actually working right? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:FCC: Government actually working right? (Score:5, Informative)
Mike hasn't really had much to do with that.
Re:FCC: Government actually working right? (Score:2)
Re:FCC: Government actually working right? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:FCC: Government actually working right? (Score:2)
Re:FCC: Government actually working right? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:FCC: Government actually working right? (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, it's POSSIBLE (though still on the paranoid side) that the FCC has some potential internet-supplying customers for those frequencies and is currying favor with those companies for campaign contributions, but this isn't an issue on which any large number of people will base their votes.
I think the FCC should take as long as they want on this issue. When it comes it'll be nice, but until then I don't really need to have my e-mail and Slashdot headlines available to me everywhere.
(Spectrum) Power to the People (Score:3, Interesting)
straightening the crooked (Score:2)
Re:FCC: Government actually working right? (Score:5, Interesting)
I think the FCC's role was minimalized and trivialized as of late. They have a smaller role since the Internet is currently unregulated by the FCC largely, unlike phone or other companies. So now that they're twiddling thumbs, they feel they have to jump all over any minor outrage.
Re:FCC: Government actually working right? (Score:3, Interesting)
An interesting case in point is forming now that Howard Stern pointed out a questionable discussion on Oprah's show. A Stern fan has now stepped forward to be the complaining witness... and now Oprah's being investigated in a way that most likely would have slipped under the radar had Stern not said anything.
Re:FCC: Government actually working right? (Score:5, Insightful)
however, the FCC says (not verbatim) they can't fine Oprah because people like her, but they can fine Howard because he is a lightning rod.
i am more of the opinion that Stern's problem with the FCC has nothing to do with indecency and is instead, politically motivated. my
Re:FCC: Government actually working right? (Score:2, Funny)
He started out in this life very close to the pocket of the secretary of state.
Re:FCC: Government actually working right? (Score:4, Informative)
Copps was one of the two members of the panel who voted to levy fines in the Bono case, while Powell was one of the three who voted against. Copps is also the dissenter who said there shouldn't just be a fine in the Stern case, but instead license revocation hearings for stations that carried Stern.
Despite "liberal" prudes like Tipper Gore, Joe Lieberman, Catherine MacKinnon, and Andrea Dworkin, there's this continuing unthinking automatic identification of censorship with the Right. So the pro-censorship actions of Democrat Michael J. Copps get blamed on Republican Michael K. Powell. After all, he's a Republican, so he must be the censorious crusader . .
Re: (Score:2)
Re:FCC: Government actually working right? (Score:3, Insightful)
michael powell is in the pocket of the broadcasters and other major companies.
Re:FCC: Government actually working right? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:FCC: Government actually working right? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:FCC: Government actually working right? (Score:3, Insightful)
He's giving away spectrum that is going to be given away anyway as digital TV comes on-line. This is an example of him being in the pocket of telcos/ISPs.
The FCC seems to have long ago ignored its mission to make sure that spectrum is protected for all public use, and instead has shifted into a mode of giving it
Great (Score:5, Funny)
Weird Al was right (Score:4, Funny)
Makes sense... (Score:5, Informative)
The other 55 or so channels are just static... begging to be used.
I for one welcome our new broadband-in-place-of TV overlords.
Re:Makes sense... (Score:5, Informative)
The problem is, just because you see static overpowering any useful signal doesn't always mean that there isn't a weak one there.
What may be an unused channel number to you could be a used one in the next TV-zone over... therefore too much of another signal on that channel might interfere with some people on the edge of the coverage range.
These devices are most certainly are going to need to be "smart" in determining what an "unused" channel really is...
Re:Makes sense... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Makes sense... (Score:2)
Umm... why would the devices have to be smart? The FCC would still regulate the band, just not dedicate it towards TV broadcasting. Then humans, not the transmitters, would determine the available frequencies. This is a definite "good thing" for broadband and the rural areas in perticular
Re:Makes sense... (Score:2)
The only way this could work is through an online database that determines what channels are free in your area. They devices almost need to be location aware and download the data automaticly. Another solution is they could have beacons in your area that announce the free channels. Basicly you power up the access point and it listens to the beacon for a free channel.
If the user has control over the channel someone i
Re:Makes sense... (Score:2)
Re:Makes sense... UHF offers 420 MHz of space (Score:5, Insightful)
If 420Mhz enough for everyone? (Score:2)
I'm presumimg that we're talking about ranges between radios of at least 10 miles, otherwise its still got an infrastructure/last mile problem to create smaller transmission ranges.
Or am I missing something about this? It seems like you'd want at least a couple of Ghz or a cell structure to ensure that there
Re:Makes sense... UHF offers 420 MHz of space (Score:2, Informative)
tr
By the way, look at the term bandwidth. That actually originally meant the width of a band, in the EM spectrum. The wider the band, the more data/clearer voice/etc you could transmit, general
Re:Makes sense... UHF offers 420 MHz of space (Score:3, Informative)
That's absolutely incorrect.
It is just how many times the electromagnetic wave oscillates every second
Do you know anything about modulation and keying? Sure we manage to come up with new encodings to pack a few more bits onto each cycle now and then, but data speed is still related to frequency in any practical system.
Re:Makes sense... UHF offers 420 MHz of space (Score:2)
That's absolutely incorrect.
No, it's correct. Transmission speed is a function of bandwidth and signal to noise ratio (see Shannon's Law).
For example, you can broadcast at the same rate with the same received signal to noise ratio on channel 4 (66-72mhz) as you can on channel 22 (518-524mhz) because both channels are 6mhz wide.
Granted, there is more room for more bandwidth at higher frequencies...
Re:Makes sense... UHF offers 420 MHz of space (Score:3, Informative)
900 MHz = 900 M bps 2.4 GHz = 2400 M bps
To see how different encoding system work AM, FM PCM look here [howstuffworks.com]
Bandwidth is important, carrier frequency less so (Score:2)
No, your method doesn't work because you haven't considered the spectrum of frequencies generated when you encode the data.
The figure you are groping in the dark for is called bandwidth. The signalling rate is proportional to the range of frequencies, not the carrier frequency which is the pure signal you start with.
2.4GHz is the carrier frequency. The carrier frequency does not determine the signalling rate: the bandwidth does. At first it looks like you could encode more data on a 2.4GHz carrier th
Re:Makes sense... (Score:2)
Even with a high-gain yagi on the roof
A what?
How does it work?
Is it better then a cheap amplified set-top antenna?
Re:Makes sense... (Score:2)
Re:Makes sense... (Score:2)
I bet you don't actually have a high gain yagi on the roof, i'll bet you have a low gain log-periodic on the roof. Most roof top tv antennas are log periodic, which are designed to cover a wide frequency range, not for super high gain on one frequency.
More like... (Score:4, Insightful)
More like putting a bike lane between two lanes of freeway.
Slashdot on channel 47 would be nice (Score:5, Funny)
Vacancy (Score:5, Funny)
With all the daytime talk shows and nighttime reality shows on now, I'd say that all channels are vacant.
Re:Vacancy (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd especially argue that there are certain religious broadcasters who are putting out such unwatchable programs that I doubt the people who are paying for the operation are even watching. I'm not against such operations on religious principal, but the idea that if nobody is watching, you're wasting the bandwidth.
There should be a minimum standard that should be attained by all TV stations for a signon-to-signoff ratings average. Even a religious or shopping program can survive, but there has to be at least some interest in the community in order for the station to keep on the air.
Re:Vacancy (Score:3, Insightful)
No ammount of low ratings can presently shut them down.
Yay.!!! (Score:3, Funny)
AM Radio Spectrum (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:AM Radio Spectrum (Score:2, Informative)
Re:AM Radio Spectrum (Score:4, Insightful)
And? (Score:2)
Honestly, can't really see that as such a bad thing! When's the last time you missed something really quality on tv?
Re:And? (Score:2)
Not surprising... (Score:5, Insightful)
For example, the National Associaton of Broadcasters (and even National Public Radio) opposed [npr.org] extending licenses for low-power radio on the grounds that it would interfere with existing licensed signal--even though most people who really understand this know that it's not the case [prometheusradio.org].
The real issue in these cases is usually not technical--it's about control over the airwaves.
Re:Not surprising... (Score:4, Interesting)
Pringles Can setups are a perfect example. There's nothing wrong with using such a can to redirect the signal... however, if the resulting redirection is too sucessful, it can take a consumer device that started as a perfectly illegal omnidirectional transmitter and put more than the legal limit of signal going in the direction its pointed at.
Sometimes, the urge to hack can be cited against us...
Re:Not surprising... (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't see how a sub-watt transmitter can hope to be competing with a transmitter running on tens of kilowatts in any meaningful fashion. Add that with the channel separation that should be involved if you aren't even using the same bands.
Why don't they... (Score:3, Funny)
geez, your spelling! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:geez, your spelling! (Score:2)
Plus 'while read' doesn't spawn another process, it all stays within the builtins of the shell.
Loose cannon (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Loose cannon (Score:2)
Yay! (Score:2)
Re:Yay! (Score:2)
Are you saying that all developments in network tech should be halted, because as we communicate faster, so will the viruses and worms?
I'm all for it (Score:2, Interesting)
Although a far more heartening prospect is the potential for this to bring more broadband services to remote areas, particularly rural ones, which are often exclusively plagued with dial-up.
Amateur Radio Transverters (Score:3, Interesting)
Frequency Transverters for Wireless LAN Devices [qsl.net]
2.4 GHz to 700 MHz Converter [qsl.net]
Good start (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't know wether this is even technologically feasable (maybe have bittorent help out?), but it's not going to happen -- if it did, it would mark the end of TV commercials, and we don't want to see those go away, do we now?
I can still wish, though.
This Was The Plan All Along (Score:3, Informative)
Possible censorship? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Possible censorship? (Score:2)
Trying to impose licensing after a big-bucks industry springs up would be tough. Possible, but tough.
Trying to regulate content would be like trying to regulate every WiFi card. Good luck. (Those use the public airwaves too).
Looks like... (Score:2)
I can see the ads already... (Score:3, Funny)
Slashdot: coming to a TV near you!
Datacasting? (Score:5, Interesting)
Your tax dollars at work.
Re:Datacasting? (Score:2)
It's still in there. But the broadcasters can't even cope with television transmission at the moment. I'm in New York, which by most definitions is not a backwater town where the broadcasters can't afford transmission equipment. But just one of them actually broadcasts proper PSIP information (UPN). CBS transmits a mostly DVB stream instead of a proper ATSC stream. The local PBS affiliate has a co
This is already common (Score:2, Interesting)
It is a somewhat questionable practice, but due to the low power of the transmitters it rarely causes interference. The exceptions to this are, for example the theatre districts in major cities, such as New York, where dozens of establishments attempt to operate large numbers (40+) of wireless microphones each, in c
For more info on this particular subject: (Score:2)
Taking The Stealth Approach [prosoundweb.com]
The Bottom Line: Legal Use of Wireless Microphones [prosoundweb.com]
The Future of Wireless Part 1: The Challenges Ahead [prosoundweb.com]
The Future of Wireless Part 2: Meeting the Challenges [prosoundweb.com]
Enjoy
-Mikey P
What's"empty"? (Score:5, Interesting)
Having grown up a fair distance from most of the TV channels (probably no towers were less than 50 miles from us except maybe one), yet being able to view 15-20 channels with a large yagi antenna, I am concerned about this. Well, heck, I'm concerned about HDTV reception too.
I grew up in southeast Minnesota, near Rochester (where the Mayo Clinic is), though the town I was in was one of the highest regions of land in the area. My family mostly pointed our antenna northward at the Twin Cities, from which we could receive eight major channels (well, except when the weather was bad): 2 (PBS), 4 (CBS), 5 (ABC), 9 (was UPN, now Fox), 11 (NBC), 17 (PBS), 23 (now WB, and the infamous originator of MST3K), 29 (was Fox, now UPN). As the PAX network started up, we could sometimes see 41 from St. Cloud.
When the weather was bad, or annoying things like late-running baseball games took up a Cities channel, various other options were available by turning the antenna. CBS stations were also available from Iowa and Wisconsin. There was an ABC affiliate near the Minnesota/Iowa border, and the local NBC affiliate's tower was not far from the border either. Several PBS stations were able to be picked up to the east, west, and south.
Recently, I experimented with receiving HDTV signals with a Linux-compatible pcHDTV [pchdtv.com] card. I was really annoyed to see that we had to directly point our antenna at the transmission tower to have any hope of picking up a signal. In the analog days, it was at least possible to get the gist of what was happening on most channels, even if they weren't aimed at directly by the antenna. Channel surfing at my parents' place is going to get a lot more dull (it wasn't great to begin with
HDTV transmitters (at the moment, at least) put out significantly less power than their analog counterparts. Theoretically, the same coverage is available with this lower power, but as I described, I think the FCC has a different idea of what reception and coverage actually are compared to what I think they are.
Then again, the pcHDTV card probably has a relatively poor tuner, but I definitely worry about it.
I think Michael Powell has said a few times that he things that "Free TV" (over-the-air broadcasts) are going the way of the dodo. Certainly, many people have been more interested in cable and satellite, but there is a loss of local flavor in that arrangement. I certainly credit a lot of my education and interest in science and technology to the availability of several PBS channels in my area. Even now, I live in Minneapolis, where I cringe when I think that only two PBS stations are available (well, you can say that more are available when the HDTV sub-channels are considered, but the programming on those doesn't really interest me at the moment).
Anyway, I just feel that the FCC probably won't properly answer this question. Maybe they will, but I have significant doubts.
Stupidity (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Stupidity (Score:3, Informative)
The FCC will not have to license this at all. If you'd actually read about what they're doing, you you would have seen that this is intended for unlicensed devices.
I'm not quite sure how the HAMs got into this, but I don't think they'll be terribly concerned.
The size of TV broadcast towers is more a factor of the distances they
So it's a way to drown analog TV in hash? (Score:2)
Almost made a long-winded post but (Score:2)
Hey, I'm just saying what everybody's thinking.
Call me Billy Bob, I'll just go light a candle and read some Aristotle. Maybe hijack some UHF in the mornin, afore I feed the cattle.
Doubling the lanes metaphor (Score:4, Interesting)
Won't broadband access go much the same way? By the time the technology exists and can be widely implemented to move X amount of data over TV bands, won't the demand be for 2X, or more?
Some people have claimed that widening highways is an expensive and very short term solution, and that some real developments of mass transit are both cheaper in the long run and more able to actually grow faster than demand. In the same way, isn't it likely that something else, such as (for just a few examples)laying some good solid fiber optic cable, or modifying the phone company's baseline all digital systems to extend the potential range of ADSL, are potentially much better solutions? I'd even look at Internet over Power Lines before I'd have much confidence in this (well, maybe not).
Re:Doubling the lanes metaphor (Score:4, Informative)
Multiply that by the 40+ unused TV channels at any given location, dividing by the fact that 2.4GHz wireless ethernet now has three effective channels (1,6,11 under 802.11 in US) and you have an expansion factor of maybe over 30 times the aggregate bandwidth of current industy standards.
Of course, I'm not counting the various fairly proprietery networks and bands, such as Canopy and Tropos, but client stations for those fetch over $500 each, and base stations going for over $2000 I think.
Re:Doubling the lanes metaphor (Score:2)
The same situation exists currently for the
franky (Score:2, Interesting)
Quite frankly, broadcast TV is a dead medium: the sooner it can be replaced the better, and several countries are working on that. I tend to wonder whether digital/HDTV is just as short lived as mini disc was, and the reality is that in the next 5-10 years, we'll be streaming media over IP.
It makes sense for FCC and regulaters to accept, and even push forward, the kinds of technologies that can superceded TV, even if it upsets the TV operators.
Seriously, broadcast TV is increasingly junk and fails to serv
Honk if you think this is a non-issue! (Score:2, Informative)
Also, most analog-allocated bandwidth will be replaced by HDTV bandwidth, so there will be lots of space in the airwaves when it's made mandatory in a couple of years.
Re:Honk if you think this is a non-issue! (Score:2)
Stupid argument. (Score:2)
Why do {advertisers|broadcasters|marketers|media distributors|lawyers} constantly make specious arguments like this? It only detracts from their credibility when they legitimately take issue with something.
Wait, nevermind... Most people's don't have the attention span to notice.
dont need the broadcasters (Score:2, Interesting)
bye bye. pack up your vacumn tubes and go home now tv broadcasters.
The broadcasters dug this hole themselves (Score:3, Interesting)
question (Score:2)
Re:Access in rural areas!? (Score:3, Insightful)
If some bombed-out city in Iraq can get Internet access, Billy Bob should have it too.
Re:Access in rural areas!? (Score:2, Insightful)
If anything, the internet is being dumbed down by l33t gamers more than by country folk.
Re:Channel 1? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Channel 1? (Score:2)
No matter how many times I re-read that, it still doesn't make sense to me.
Re:Channel 1? (Score:2, Informative)
KG6NMP
Re:Channel 1? (Score:2)
We flipped on his 706 and talked from a drive-thru in northern CA to a guy in Greenland. It only lasted about 10 minutes, then the band closed, and we ate our burgers. You wouldn't want your TV signals doing that.
No, you certainly wouldn't want that to happen! Why, a skip could open up, and then we could be getting porn from German broadcast TV, and then... wait a second...
It's far worse than that! (Score:2)
Or, a region 1 movie clip might broadcast in region 2.. The MPAA would have a total shit fit
But wouldn't wireless broadband be really cheap? (Score:3, Insightful)
And if so wouldn't that mean that many more people be exposed to the egalitarian influence of the internet? I mean, tell me which has a greater range of political expression--the Internet, or broadcast TV? I say if we can get cheap broadband, then KILL broadcast TV. Broadcast TV is the most elite media of all, in many ways; meaning that it represents Big Money and so therefore prop
Re:A full redesign is in need (Score:3, Insightful)
Problem is, once you start dynamically assigning frequencies, who is to say which user is the highest importance? Every industry will yell they should be higher than everyone else. Also, it requi
Re:A full redesign is in need (Score:2)
I think your microwave oven is going to be very unhappy about moving from the ISM band where it is currently transmitting (2.4 GHz is a ressonance for water in frozen burgers) to wherever a dynamic system would want to put it.
Likewise it will be unpractical to replace all the everyday narrow-band antennas you see around you (stub or pifa on a mobile phone, slot antennas for basestations, ferrite coil for a cheapo am reciever etc etc.) to some big wide-band structures that would cover everything from DC to
Re:A full redesign is in need (Score:2)
I like this idea already.
Re:A full redesign is in need (Score:2)
I agree for the most part but cable companies could really benefit from this. If everyone has their signal coming through, at least for regular TV, then the cable company has automatic access to that persons TV and can use this access to send out free channels, such as shopping channels etc. where they will only profit. Charge for entertainme
Re:How can they do this? (Score:2)
I like your point. Especially since "Every sufficiently advanced form of communication is indistinguishable from white noise". Unless the punters transmitting in the band are waisting bandwidth by adding redundancy that can be detected, or you know what you are looking for, there is no way of detecting whether a Sufficiently advanced communication is going on.
Re:What about wifi + CDMA? (Score:2)
wifi is a spread spectrum system allready, your problem is that you bought the propaganda about limitless bandwidth in a finite spectrum.
If the myth of CDMA or the myth of ultra-wideband were true, why would you then need any more spectrum than what is allready available in the ISM band?