Cell Phone Ringtones Give Music Industry Another Headache 380
Alien54 writes "Xingtone's desktop software allows you to create mobile phone ringtones using digital audio files on your computer. As seen here, The software evokes the same ``oh wow, oh no'' reaction from the labels that greeted the original Napster. The fear is that people will make 30 second long ringtones out of popular songs, thus compounding the file-sharing problem while robbing the music industry of a new source of revenue. Many users find the technology quite cool. IANAL, but current copyright guidelines seem to permit fair use of "Up to 10% of a body of sound recording, but no more than 30 seconds". All of which should make for an interesting legal debate. I can hear the gnashing of teeth already."
So (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:So (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously though, Copyright laws are just broken with respect to format shifting.
Consumers do not want to and are going to refuse to pay for multiple versions of the same copyrighted material.
Producers of copyrighted material (mostly) want to maximise the cash they can get for it, and are in fact obligated to do so if they work for a company that has shareholders.
At some point something is going to have to give.
Re:So (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:So (Score:5, Funny)
Re:So (Score:5, Funny)
Re:So (Score:4, Interesting)
Record a phone call from the one person that you DON'T want to talk to. Use the stupidest, most lame part of the call as the ring tone on your phone.
Then as soon as it 'rings', immediately turn the stupid thing OFF.
On behalf of all the people around you (in the library, in class, in the theatre):
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
nothing to worry about (Score:5, Funny)
Re:nothing to worry about (Score:5, Funny)
- remove your socks
- insert one sock in the other sock
- insert the ringing phone
- swing the socks (with phone in the toes) to bludgeon the offender
Works great, even if the phone breaks the mass in the socks still does damage.
Works with soda cans, coins, ice, or any other innocent until used as bludgeon objects.
Enjoy!
Re:nothing to worry about (Score:4, Funny)
Oh, wait...
Re:nothing to worry about (Score:4, Funny)
Re:nothing to worry about (Score:5, Funny)
Re:nothing to worry about (Score:3, Interesting)
Cellphones are tech devices and must be considered cool. Pop music is automatically uncool. When the two are blended... slashdot doesn't know what to mod it.
Cellphones automatically cool? What planet are you living on?
"Pop music" automatically uncool? Depends on who you are, I guess, but for most of us -- no.
The problem is... whoever came up with the idea of using music for a phone's ringtone needs to be shot.
Re:nothing to worry about (Score:3, Funny)
So yeah, you'll know who to kick the shit out of when you suddenly start hearing Mission of Burma's "That's When I Reach for my Revolver" in the middle of a movie.
But as I'm being killed by irritated people, I'll know in my heart of hearts that I am cooler than them, since I listen to obscure music.
(That was all sarcasm by the way, people who ride big egos because they're "cooler" than other people need to
Great. (Score:5, Funny)
Fucking christ. You know the only people that use this are going to be people infatuated with dreadful pop music. It's the same phenomenon as loud car stereos -- I don't think I've ever pulled up to someone with a thumping car at a traffic light and thought, "Oh, good, I really like this song."
--saint
Re:Great. (Score:3)
Re:Great. (Score:3, Funny)
I know you've been wondering, so I'll confirm it to you. Those are the guys having sex in college.
Re:Great. (Score:4, Funny)
Once again (Score:3, Informative)
Surely the point is that now we can compose our own music and download that, instead of the current pop and classical tunes which are advertised for download in every newspaper and magazine on premium rate numbers and have been for years.
Re:Great. (Score:5, Informative)
Unless, of course, the asshat in question has the windows down (45th St in Ballard, yesterday, ~2pm), or is driving a ragtop (6th Avenue, Seattle, yesterday, ~5pm). Then you get to hear all the frequencies. Don't forget that a lot of these idiots WANT you to hear how cool their musical taste is...
Re:Great. (Score:3, Funny)
Headache? (Score:5, Insightful)
But how is taking a snippet of a song and putting it on my phone any worse than taking an entire song and putting it on my computer? Obviously the record companies want people to pay for ringtone-specific clips, but I see nothing wrong with this software.
Re:Headache? (Score:4, Interesting)
It's just plain stupidity that they didn't see a program like this coming.
Ringtones are PUBLIC performances in the USA (Score:3, Funny)
When your mobile phone rings, it's often in a "place where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances is gathered". So if your phone ever rings in a public place, then under U.S. copyright law's definition of "publicly" (17 USC 101 [cornell.edu]), causing your phone to play a copyrighted work whenever a call comes in amounts to performing the work publicly. Copyright law also gives the owner of copyright in a musical work a monopoly on authorizing such public perf
Dude, seriously... (Score:4, Insightful)
*sigh*
- GNU/Anonymous Coward
Re:Dude, seriously... (Score:5, Funny)
Still, we just have to be organized enough to realize when they're asking us to repay for a song when we can just do the format shifts on our own.
Re:Dude, seriously... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Dude, seriously... (Score:3, Insightful)
No, that analogy would be like GM trying to prevent me from making my own hotrod. If I take one of their products and modify and/or service it, that would be like me taking the RIAA's product (e.g. a shitty pop song) and modifying and/or servicing it (converting it to ringtone format, and putting it on my cell phone).
Copyright p
Short answer: NO (Score:5, Insightful)
Its their business model.. ( or at least what model they want.. )
Ya, they suck.
Music industry sues oxygen users (Score:4, Funny)
I'm waiting for them to hit this stage...then maybe they'll finally run out of things to bitch about..
Re:Music industry sues oxygen users (Score:3, Interesting)
By that, I mean suing people who sing "Happy Birthday" at parties in their home, or charging people who hum too much of a song for giving an 'unlicensed performance in contravention of their exclusive rights' and crap like that.
Or, say, getting a drug patent and *only* allowing it to be used in places that do not recognize them. Or the same with patents and soft
Overpriced (Score:5, Insightful)
Some people already own the music, or can buy the actual song for the same price. Why pay twice?
Re:Overpriced (Score:4, Informative)
We're beyond the MIDI stage... but still, selecting the 10 second hook of an MP3/OGG/WAV/Whatever file is something a consumer can do with very little software help.
Re:Overpriced (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Overpriced (Score:3, Insightful)
/greger
Re:Overpriced (Score:3, Funny)
Yes. Yes I do.
We don't protect business models from other ones (Score:5, Insightful)
That's not the real fear. The real fear is that people will make ringtones out of the CDs they already have. That process is nothing more than format shifting, trimming, and then playback when a particular event happens to the phone. Uhm... there's no laws against that process.
The record industry is a bit worried because this had appeared to be a new business model for them... but if the software to make a good enough ringtone is easy enough for the average consumer to do on their own, then consumers don't need to pay to re-buy a track they already have if they want it as a ringtone.
Sorry, this business model was dead on arrival. Please try again.
Re:We don't protect business models from other one (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not suggesting that makes an ounce of sense, but it's certainly not chump change here.
Barnum was right. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Barnum was right. (Score:3, Interesting)
With 3.5 billion in sales at an average of 60 cents each (according to the article) it's more like 11,098 suckers born every minute. The number is probably lower due to repeat buyers, but i doubt there's one sucker born every minute who buys 11,098 ringtones :)
How many cellphone owners are there in the world? Maybe a billion? Two billion at most? I know cell phone rates are higher in many other countries than the US, but still, there are only 6 billion people on the
That doesn't quite do it. Brace yourselves. (Score:4, Interesting)
If your phone plays the exact cut, you may be right. But if your phone plays a bunch of beeps that are the tune, that is a "derived work". And we're back to the issue of how much is "fair use".
IANAL, but current copyright guidelines seem to permit fair use of "Up to 10% of a body of sound recording, but no more than 30 seconds".
The linked web page says that the North Carolina Department of Public Education believes that is the case IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL SETTING. For instance: As part of a class project in K-12 education.
That does not necessarily mean the same guidelines are applicable when you're doing it to replace purchasing a ringtone for your telephone from the copyright holder. The limits of fair use in that situation may be narrower.
Remember that one of the issues to be weighed in determining whether an act is "fair use" is how much it impacts the potential income of the copyright holder. We have evidence from the existing market that people are willing to pay over a buck for a ringtone. Things get even more interesting if somebody is making a profit by selling the tool, or (worse yet) selling the ringtones themselves.
IANAL either. I would love it if a lawyer or paralegal among our readership could post a pointer to an authoritative guideline or (better yet) a precedent on the boundaries of fair use OUTSIDE the educational context.
The fear [of the RIAA] is that people will make ringtones out of pirated songs, thus compounding the file-sharing problem while robbing the music industry of a new source of revenue.
IMHO that's correct. "Whack-a-mole" enforcement, no doubt preceeded by a strike against the toolmaker based on the claim that the tool is a piracy aid.
So for the reasons above we should be prepared for the courts to agree with the RIAA when the inevitable suit is filed.
More Noises? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:More Noises? (Score:2, Interesting)
Nokia 5190 - Vibrate function was only available with a special battery. I actually got one of these batteries, and was completly unable to get the damn thing to vibrte. (0/10)
Nokia 3390 - Great vibrate. When someone calls, even if it's tucked away under 4 layers of clothing, you'll notice. (10/10)
Nokia 8390 - So-so vibrate. This phone is much smaller, so I guess there wasn't room for a big weight. I'd missed s
Re:More Noises? (Score:4, Insightful)
1) It is your responsibility to select a phone that has a vibrate feature that works as you need it too.
2) If you are SOOO important that you can't miss a call or two then spending the money to get the proper phone shouldn't be an issue. For normal people, missing a call or two should override being inconsiderate of others.
3) If you must recieve a call when others might be bothered with your dumbass ringtones then get the damn thing out, put it on lights only mode, and sit it in front of you. Now you won't miss that oh so important phone call.
4) Finally, there is a BIG, and I mean BIG distinction between someone who occasionally let's the phone ring audibly with the STANDARD ringer vs someone who leaves their phone on audible all the time so others can hear how coooool their ringtones are.
Stop making excuses for your rudeness. When your phone goes off in a theatre, classroom, library, or any place where people expect a certain noise restraint you are being inconsiderate. There is no legitamate reason, not even the fabled doctor and his dying patient, for your RUDENESS!!!
plurvert
Re:More Noises? (Score:3, Insightful)
a) I am somewhere loud - my phone vibrates and I can answer it.
b) I am somewhere quiet - my phone vibrates and I can answer it.
Being a male and thus keeping the phone in my pocket, ringtones are virtually obsolete. It should be the same for most males out there.
Women are tricky (as usual) because most keep their phone in a handbag (that's a purse, USAians) and the phone is kept further
History (Score:5, Interesting)
am I missing something here? (Score:5, Informative)
I don't know if they last 30 seconds, but ring tones of popular songs already exist, at least in Norway/Europe. It has existed for a quite some time, at least 5 years if not more.
Re:am I missing something here? (Score:2)
In some countries you have a "private use" exception (Spain is one I know of) which makes it legal to make a copy of your music CD as a ring tone. This may be the case in Norway too.
Otherwise, I don't see why the creator of the music shouldn't get an additional reward for the new use? Of course, I speak as someone who creates works and earns money from them, not as a mere consumer.
Re:am I missing something here? (Score:4, Interesting)
With my car, for example, I can use it to get from point A to point B. I can cut it up and call it art. I can use it as a door stop.
With a book - I can use it to make paper maché doodads. I can use it as a weapon in self defense. I can even tear out the pages and use it as toilet paper (I can think of a couple books that can justify it, too).
When you purchase something (Adobe vs. Softman - it's a Sale, not a License), you have the right to do almost whatever you want with it, with the exception (sometimes) of distributing copies, due to patent or copyright restrictions.
The creator of the work has been paid for said work. He has excercised his right of first sale. Beyond that, what happens to the work is not really any of his business. Just because it's IP, doesn't somehow give it a special exemption.
Furthermore, you should ask yourself "what is the purpose, the reason behind copyright?"
The answer to this question is contained in Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution:
"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts..."
Stifling innovation through charging for any improvement or new use seems contrary to the very purpose of copyright in the first place.
Re:am I missing something here? (Score:3, Insightful)
I recycle regularly, it's more fun that way.
mod this one up! (Score:2)
That is SO true!
Open source version? (Score:2, Funny)
The music industry? (Score:2)
i'll take my answer off the air....
For once, I agree with the record companies (Score:2)
Or in other words... (Score:2)
Consumers win..... getting better music...and so do the real artists.
Re:Or in other words... (Score:2)
Cell phone companies might prevent this (Score:2, Interesting)
This is why... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:This is why... (Score:2)
Re:This is why... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:This is why... (Score:5, Funny)
It's a 14.4k modem training sequence. Beeeep-dooop braaap-beeep-beep-bip braaaaaappppppppp scrreeeeeeeeeee(for 25 seconds).
My phone has been banned from every telecom facility in the Benelux. On the downside, every time I hear somebody still using an analog modem I check my phone.
the AC
buying ringtones is a joke... (Score:3, Informative)
Ringtones? We've had them for years now! (Score:5, Informative)
Far from worrying here in the UK music ring tones are popular in the UK. People are willing to pay 1.50 (or more) for a ring tone, yet are not willing to pay that much for a single this has a few analysts baffled. It's probably all convenience, anyone can copy a single from the radio, from a friends CD, download it from the net etc.. but getting ringtones on a mobile phone is a bit more complex for the average person. As a result people are willing to pay for them.
It's not uncommon now to see adverts on peak time TV for ring tone services where you text a number with the name of a song, and you'll receive that ring tone.
A few people have made millions of pounds from these services. There not hush-hush services either, a few of these people have even been the subjects of BBC Documentaries.
Channel 4 even allow you to download ring tones from their site - http://www.channel4.com/mobile/ [channel4.com]
With Cellphones Europe seems to be ahead of the the game compaired the US. Japan on the other hand are ahead of Europe with 3G phones!
Re:Ringtones? We've had them for years now! (Score:3, Insightful)
The point of the article isn't that you can get a pop-music ringtone, it's that you can get a pop-music ringtone without paying the RIAA, which pisses the greedy bastards off.
Link to "guidelines" (Score:2)
It's odd that you linked to guidelines of some non legal body as opposed to some actual legal document.
While I usually disagree w/ idiots blathering on about fair use, I think short clips at vastly degraded quality for personal use on your cell phone come pretty damn
challenges profits? (Score:2, Informative)
These companies have a horrible time keeping their business models up to date... and inter-industrial consistency in argument seems to be f
I for one... (Score:2, Interesting)
Puff Daddy does it, why can't I ? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Puff Daddy does it, why can't I ? (Score:3, Informative)
There's a fascinating bio of this artist (?) on rotten.com: Here [rotten.com]
Music Industry (Score:5, Informative)
-Sean
Re:Music Industry (Score:2)
Most forms of art are covered by the "Information wants to be free" principle. That's not to say information should always have zero value, but just that the natural tendancy of people
sure, you may say IANAL as long as you want (Score:5, Funny)
iAnal, that is
just ban them (Score:2, Insightful)
Could labels invoke DMCA? (Score:2, Funny)
I personally hate ringtones, even in the office some nut has beethoven beeping and booping... what's wrong with vibrate?
Submitter is missing context (Score:5, Informative)
The submitter is missing the context of the part of the document he referenced. The 10%/30 seconds guideline is meant to clarify what portions of referenced works means in the top of the document. There is no fair use when the only purpose is your own enjoyment.
Whether owning the CD gives you the right to use this is a seperate question, but there the 10%/30 seconds rule doesn't apply.
Re:Submitter is missing context (Score:5, Informative)
Crap. You clearly don't understand "fair use".
There is no absolute rule for "fair use", the 10%/30 rule is basically a thumb in the air.
The problem is far more complex than this, and difficult to construct an answer here.
How to get a ringtone onto the phone? (Score:2)
Re:How to get a ringtone onto the phone? (Score:3, Informative)
Considering the vast amount of MIDI, AMR or MP3 format songs out there, and for that matter the ease of creating one in the first place, I don't see why this is such big news. Unless, of course, this is a way to create monophonic ring tunes out of MP3s, which is pretty darn stupid IMHO.
This software is Windows only (Score:2)
Of course, if you don't want to pay... (Score:3, Informative)
Er, what? (Score:4, Insightful)
So let me get this straight:
1. Fair use is 10% of a song or 30 seconds, whatever comes first, right?
2. Making ring tones out of popular songs falls under fair use.
What am I missing? Ah yes, I know!
3. Someone with a large lobbying department is not making a profit.
Don't worry. If fair-use prevents the making of a large profit, fair-use will be weakened.
A little over two centuries ago, Thomas Jefferson considered copyrights as a sort of necessary evil to promote the creation of works that would (eventually) be in the public domain.
Today, copyrights exit for only three things: profit, profit, profit. The company that benefited from the vast amount of ideas that had passed into the public domain (Disney) was the company that promoted the idea of "forever" copyrights.
Super Nintendo ringtones are the way to go... (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyways, I've found that video game MIDIs, particularly SNES, make the best ringtones. The instruments carry over well to a ring, there are hundreds and thousands of available songs you can get online, and they're just all out fun.
So, I don't really see why a community like slashdot would really care that they can't put the latest Outkast or 50 Cent ring on their phone. There are much better rings out there. Just be courteous and turn those goddamn things off before entering a movie theatre or something, cause I can tell you right fucking now I don't want to hear Kefka's theme from FF6 blasting out of your phone right as a J. Lo-portrayed Samus Aran is putting the hurt down on some aliens in the next big John Woo movie.
Not that our phones are ringing anyway...
So this is how to share ALL of your MP3's LEGALLY! (Score:3, Interesting)
1. slice your songs into 10 equally sized chunks (10% each)
2. name them original_song_title.mp3.X where X = (0-9 corresponding to the chunk that it is).
3. Have each smaller file shared on P2P network.
4. Laugh at the RIAA
No need for special software (Score:5, Interesting)
BTW, my own ringtone is a recording of an old-fashioned telephone bell... I don't inflict reedy-sounding pop music on innocent bystanders.
Reality Check (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps if the RIAA managed to get some draconian measures enforced to charge you a royalty fee everytime your dumbass ringtone went off you'd switch back to vibrate. I hate the RIAA, but honestly, I hate ringtones more.
plurvert
Re:I don't have a ringtone to be cool (Score:5, Insightful)
If you want to be a stick in the mud and people's choice of ringtones really bothers you, don't go out in public. There's always a chance in public you'll hear or see something you find offensive. Two guys might be holding hands, someone might say "fuck", you may hear a 30-second midi rendition of a pop song's chorus. The shock, the horror.
I choose to use ringtones because it's entertaining TO ME and it's not the same old "beep beep beep". If that really bothers you that much, don't worry - you're not someone I'd want to associate with anyway.
Re:I don't have a ringtone to be cool (Score:3, Informative)
I never said anything about leaving my phone's ringer on in places where it's inappropriate.
I seriously doubt anything has changed in terms of people's laziness (relating to swit
Though it's sacriledge to say so... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Though it's sacriledge to say so... (Score:3, Funny)
My favorite remedy to this? Take their cell phone and put it up in the ceiling tile. Then when they come back, call their phone and laugh as they franticly look around for it. Done this to a couple of co-workers.
If it works I'm buying it (Score:4, Interesting)
Sprint PCS users can make WAV ringtones for free (Score:5, Informative)
On another note, the US Court of Appeals ... (Score:5, Funny)
In its ruling, the Court agreed with the precedent cited by RIAA, their successful case against the Girl Scouts and Campfire Girls for royalties accrued as a result of girls singing 'Kumbaya', 'Happy Birthday' and other popular songs around the campfire.
I don't get it (Score:4, Insightful)
These people are insane... why aren't they simply ignored? Oh, right... they bribe our politicians, and sometimes even write the actual laws they want passed -- God bless Word(TM) meta-data.
Wanna Know Something really cool? (Score:3, Interesting)
Here's how to upload your OWN TONES without paying for XINGTONE:
1. start XINGTONE.
2. have your pre-trimmed
3. navigate to the xingtone app directory
4. overwrite a demo tone with your new sound (keep the name the same).
5. upload.
Congratulations. You are t3h winnar!
Now you can finally have the guitar intro to "Where is my mind" by the Pixies, instead of "In Da Club" by 50-Cent. Treknerds can make their phone sound like a tricorder, or get beamed up everytime their phone rings.. whoopee!
Why a freehack? -- The audio quality is crappier than 8-bit audio, you may also have normalization problems (too loud/soft). Their demo is just 3 canned sounds that are decompressed onto your hardrive when the app is started, and removed upon app-shutdown. The app is useful, but not worth $15. Not to mention the fact that many people have to pay additional $$ to their mobile service provider per byte/kb of data transferred...
scam.
Remember: We only use recordable devices because of human playback limitations.
Death of Ringtone Sales (Score:4, Informative)
Slashdot, 2022 (Score:5, Interesting)
from the we-miss-the-dmca dept.
The RIAA [riaa.gov] announced today that they have secured the exclusive right to the key of G-flat [supremecourtus.gov].
Previously, the key of G-flat was a popular key among independant Open Music authors, as the RIAA had neglected to secure rights to it during the Commercial Copyright Reforms of 2016.
RIAA spokesman Darl Hollingsworth explained, "After CCR/2016, the RIAA secured the rights to all keys in which music can be composed. Traditional music theory, dating back to the 15th century, stipulates that there is no such key signature as G-flat major. Unfortunately, Open Music pirates have discovered a way to represent the key of G-flat; however, G-flat major is simply an isomorph of F-sharp. The court rightly recognized this equivalence and the blatent theft of musical keys by Open Music pirates everywhere. In accordance with the law, the Supreme Court of the United States of America has assigned us the world-wide copyright to these songs."
While timing is expected to vary from state to state, all residents of the USA will have their CRMIs (Cranial Rights Management Implants) updated by the end of 2023. The levy for mentally accessing a song written in G-flat will begin at twice the regular rate, to make up for nearly a decade of Note Piracy. The levy will be scaled back to the regular rate of $19.84 per thought once the new CRMI software has been uploaded for two years. Residents of the so-called "Oil States" of Iraq and Saudi America will continue to receive the Western Culture subsidy.
iPod Cell Phone? (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't see how this is any different than that, and cell phone tech is already at the point where you could download an mp3 to normal cell phones and use it as your ring tone anyway. (Why this hasn't happened yet is anybody's guess, but I would not be in the least surprised to see it in the next round of cell phones.)
MIDI ringtones don't involve the RIAA (Score:4, Interesting)
Fair use is not evil (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:fair use (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:fair use (Score:4, Interesting)