Bar Coding The World Away 470
778790 writes "The Bar Code, long used for inventory classification and sometimes feared as a tool of social engineering, has been regulated in the name of globalization, and the globe has defeated the United States. Bar Codes in America will now have more digits, to match the global bar code standard: the European Article Numbering Code."
More digits... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:More digits... (Score:3, Insightful)
And that no man might buy or sell, save except he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
-- Rev 13:16-18 KJV
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:More digits... (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, that doesn't HAVE to be true...unless a transaction that is taking place involves SS taxable income,etc, you do NOT have to give your SS#, and I pretty much do not.
Sure it is inconvenient, but, it can be done. When I wanted a cell phone, or ordered new cable service...I refused to give my SS#. In the case of the cell phone, they were just using it to run a credit check...and I want as few of those run as possible as that it can affect your credit rating, but, I digress. I had to give them something like a $200 deposit, and got signed up. I think I got the deposit sent back to me less than a year later.
I had a hassle at a company I worked for once...I refused to let the company's insurance have my SS...I told them to generate a new ID for me...after a little bitching...they gave me one. Thankfully, it is getting alittle easier to avoid giving the SS these days...due to people understanding identity theft being a problem (I've had mine stolen 3 times).
Not to mention the fact, it is a horrible number for a unique identifier from a database viewpoint. It cannot be counted on to be unique....the numbers are recycled...you cannot count on everyone HAVING one...and you cannot count on them being exactly 9 digits...many foreign national guests of the military are given special 'SS' numbers...that have extra digits to identify them as special...etc.
So, just because someone asks for it, you don't have to give it......and you should not!
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:More digits... (Score:4, Informative)
I was apparently mis-informed about this when I worked for Acxiom.....and they move so much 'people' data around, I'd taken this as truth there...they ran into lots of problems of SS#'s being dupes for different peoples' records...
I was told that there used to be a real problem with the 'fake' SS card they used to put in new wallets...people were thinking that was the way they were assigned a SS number...and were using it as such. That one sounded so goofy, that it actually sounded plausible, but, thanks for the link above...I'll have to look into this some more..
Re:More digits... (Score:3, Interesting)
I dunno...never heard the true explanation, but, got the info from our SME (subject matter expert) on a DoD database project I worked on once...
Re:More digits... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:More digits... (Score:5, Interesting)
Other common misunderstandings: "Lucifer" (Lux+Ferre = Light Bringer) is not Satan; the phrase is "a ROPE through the eye of a needle" (camelis != camel!!!); there is linguistic confusion over whether Mary was a virgin (neanis vs. parthenos, alma vs. bethusaleh, etc; there's also some evidence that parthenos did not carry its modern connotation); etc
Why not be smarter? (Score:4, Interesting)
This would last forever and be able to migrate through other technologies, such as RFID.
Re:Why not be smarter? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why not take the time to implement a flexible sytem which may allow to encore an arbitrary number of characters?
I imagine it has to do with simplifying the amount of work done by barcode readers. Similar to IPv6. Bigger, longer... but still fixed-length.
That last bit makes me feel dirty.
Re:Why not be smarter? (Score:3, Insightful)
Fellows' Law: All fixed-length fields are too short.
Fixed-length fields.... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Why not be smarter? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Why not be smarter? (Score:5, Informative)
In the end, that's what it boils down too: anything that would allow varying length would make way too much software and hardware obsolete. The cost/benefit would be astronimically bad.
[slightly] OT: With RFID how do I get my rebates? (Score:2)
Will I have to track down the "orginal RFID tag" then?
Re:Why not be smarter? (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, EAN does include exactly such a capability... You can basically tack on additional groups of digits to form a longer, still-valid EAN barcode.
Most commonly used, you'll find EAN+5 on many books. Of readers I've worked with, though, every single one (that could handle +5) would read out as wide as they could physically scan.
Just because you have a hammer, though, don't make the mi
Damn (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Damn (Score:4, Interesting)
Why ? I was bored, and had a scar that needed covered, I couldnt think of anything that wouldnt be lame skulls etc, non my taste, so I figured If I ever get amnesia it would be nice to have (in case your wondering I'v had maybe 4 concussions, been declared dead once and had a skull fracture, perhaps THAT explains why I had my SS# put on my leg) in addiditon just in case noone has a scanner handy it is also printed in digits below as well.
Re:Damn (Score:2, Funny)
Are you a) a racing driver, b) in the military or c) into extreme sports?
Re:Damn (Score:5, Funny)
d) stalked by a psycotic ex-girlfriend?
Re:Damn (Score:5, Interesting)
But its all been worth it, I've had a blast Ive been racing since I was 9 , first Junior MX, Then by 14 Flat Track, then I got into Road Racing and I'm still doing it, although in the last 2 years I've raced Vintage, probably will till I croak, Ive actually thought SERIOUSLY about doing the Isle of Man TT, but I havent had a sponsor (other than contingency sponsors) since I was 18
Re:Damn (Score:3, Funny)
Have you seen the movie The Shawshank Redemption? Tommy is a fairly young man who has been convicted once again for breaking and entering. After relating the tale of his most recent arrest, and describing how he had served time all over the state, the protagonist Andy a
Re:Damn (Score:3, Funny)
Don't be concerned: (Score:2)
Of course, there will be anal probing.
Re:Damn (Score:2)
Just get them to put a new one on your forehead. It can be smaller since ones there only require three digits.
Bwahaha (Score:4, Funny)
Get me a rewrite... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's good news for the geeks... more work for us to do.
Re:Get me a rewrite... (Score:5, Interesting)
To the best of my knowledge, I don't know anyone that works with strictly 12-digit codes on any mass level. Perhaps it's just the mom&pop shops with their possibly custom software that runs with 12-digits only.
Re:Get me a rewrite... (Score:2)
> custom software that runs with 12-digits only.
Yeah, and we all know there's hardly any of those around. Tiny fraction of the economy.
Re:Get me a rewrite... (Score:3, Funny)
If Bush gets re-elected then fire and brimstone will rain from the sky! Thus rendering all small businesses destroyed.
Mark my words, fire and brimstone.
Re:Get me a rewrite... (Score:3, Insightful)
In case you didn't notice, all Florida recounts done after the election pointed to Bush as the winner.
Re:Get me a rewrite... (Score:5, Interesting)
We've tried a few different ways over the years to insure the right number of characters, including forcing eleven by cropping, forcing eleven by not allowing entry (no good if the table is a linked one and the entry is outside of our software) or allowing 11 or 12 and checking the checksum if there are twelve. All this matters because the equipment used to print the barcode typcially generates the check digit on its own, and the different manufacturers handle excess digits in several different ways.
The new standard now says we have three choices: 11,12 or 13. What do we do now? I'm not expecting an answer, because in the end we have to balance all the considerations and make Hobson's choice.
I'm not even going to go into the major US corporation whose database consists of 10,11 or 12 digit UPC codes, because in the beginning, that first digit was always the same, so why waste space on it?
Just goes to show you that when volume and/or speed increases, everything gets complicated (except rock).
Re:Get me a rewrite... (Score:3, Informative)
Now, I realize that the parent DOES realize these problems, but he makes it clear that the equipment manufacturers themselves DONT.
The digit isn't there just to protect against machine error (or smudging of the bar codes), it is there to protect against human error too - mis-typed or transposed digits. So use i
Re:Get me a rewrite... (Score:3, Interesting)
Believe me, it would never be acceptable in a production environment to say "our product will shut down your production until a) you have t
cue cat (Score:3, Insightful)
Dude, what about my Cue Cat? How's it going to be any better than the 20 year old IBM scanners that are so common? IBM and others might have a service to upgrade their machines but could easily abuse the situation. If there's a Microsoft system out there, the answer is going to be "buy anothe
Re:Get me a rewrite... (Score:2)
But yes, there's a lot of rewriting to be done. The actual mods will be fairly simple, even on older systems, but the hard (and expensive) part comes when its time to test all of the millions of lines of code that hadn't changed in years, that have now just been impacted. And y
Re:Get me a rewrite... (Score:3, Interesting)
People using older cash register systems might be SOL though.
Re:Get me a rewrite... (Score:2)
Seriously, it is a lot like Y2K, particularly in the fact that this has been expected for a looooooong time, but everybody had to wait for the standards bodies to wave their magic wands before anybody would move.
Re:Get me a rewrite... (Score:5, Informative)
This has meant that UPC-A barcodes can be scanned worldwide but EAN-13 barcodes produced in other countries could not be scanned in the U.S. because U.S. POS systems didn't understand the "extended" version (EAN-13). This meant that manufacturers outside the U.S. had to have an EAN-13 barcode for the "rest of the world" and a UPC-A barcode for the U.S.--U.S. manufacturers only needed a UPC-A barcode because it works worldwide.
The only thing that is changing here is a requirement that U.S. retailers use POS systems that are able to read an EAN-13 barcode and that their database support it (i.e. the code field must support 13 digits rather than just 12). This is so that a barcode produced in other parts of the world can be scanned in the U.S.
Thus it's not that UPC-A is being "retired"--it's just that U.S. retailers will be expected to be able to handle foreign barcodes.
Woah... (Score:5, Funny)
Is this an April fool dupe or something? ;-)
Internationalism? Multinationalism? What? (Score:4, Funny)
We all know that "global" means "European"; I'm fine with that. And the "international community" means the EU. No problem. Now that Europeans have repented of their colonialist/paternalis past, they're once again qualified to decide what's best for the rest of the world.
What's difficult is keeping track of which "international" things are evil and which are good.
"Multinational" is bad, right? Because it's got something to do with corporations, which are bad. Unless they're European. A "multinational" corporation is an American corporation which operates in more than one country, and it's bad, even if it practices "internationalization", in spite of the fact that "internationalization" is good (right?). But what about "multinational ism "? Is that one good or bad? I can't tell.
International standards are good, of course, provided that they're European, because then they're "multilateral" (which is good, I think, because "multilateral" means "involving any set of one or more nations which includes France"). If standards are not European, they're "unilateral", which is bad. "Unilateral" means "not including France" (or else "not excluding the US"), and it's very, very bad.
"Globalism" is good, because it includes France. "Globalization" is bad because, even though it includes France (except for Jose Bove), it doesn't exclude the US. "Globalism" is good because it excludes the US by definition: Anything which includes US is no longer "global". Instead, it's "hegemonic", which is very, very bad.
Did I miss any?
Re:Woah... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Woah... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Woah... (Score:5, Insightful)
For example, if an hour was 10 minutes, a quarter hour would be a fractional number of minutes. Not so in the base 60 system. Likewise, the foot, being 12 inches can be divided into more parts than a decimal foot could be.
We might want to consider getting rid of decimal numbering and going to duodecimal, and then adopting a self consistent set of units in the new numbering system as a superiour alternative to that crazy scheme developed by the cheese eating, wine drinking, unbathed, Godless French.
Re:Woah... (Score:3, Insightful)
Your example about one hour makes little sense: if an hour was 10 minutes, half-an-hour would be 5 minutes...easy. One quarter of an hour would still be one quarter
Re:Woah... (Score:3, Funny)
I don't know if you are serious in suggesting that conversion to metric costs less than losing space probes, but the notion is rather implausbible, considering the cost of, for example, razing Detroit to the ground so that 8-mile road can be rebuilt on the 13-km mark. And the savings of the one, holy & catholic measurement system may not be so apparent when someone conflates, say, newtons with kilogram-force and crashes some other space probe. (I would claim that the savings of a complete conversion t
How long? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:How long? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:How long? (Score:4, Informative)
Like someone else mentioned, it's not a difficult problem to solve, but the testing will just take a good deal of effort.
Re:How long? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:How long? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:How long? (Score:2)
Re:How long? (Score:4, Funny)
RFID (Score:2)
Non register link (Score:2)
welcome ... (Score:3, Funny)
saw this coming (Score:2, Informative)
old tech and fucture tech? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:old tech and fucture tech? (Score:4, Interesting)
As for the older, fixed function models, well, barcode readers get a lot of abuse, and are usually replaced every so often anyway due to wear and tear. Even better, the older supermarket checkout units have HeNe gas-discharge lasers which have a much shorter service life than their solid-state counterparts.
let me hit you with some knowledge (Score:5, Informative)
Re:let me hit you with some knowledge (Score:2)
And the second was Wrigley himself, though this fact is much less well known.
Re:let me hit you with some knowledge (Score:3, Interesting)
GASP!
Re:let me hit you with some knowledge (Score:3, Informative)
Hamster
When a domain runs out of numbers... (Score:5, Insightful)
IPv4 is also in trouble in this area, and IPv6 is waiting in the wings to take over. However, NAT seems to be good enough in stretching out single IP addresses to multiple computers so I don't know if we'll ever be forced to convert over.
Re:When a domain runs out of numbers... (Score:5, Insightful)
Although I agree essentially with what you say, I think far too many people don't realize that "good enough" will be at the cost of future economic and internet growth. There are many potentially very profitable communications, collaborative and gaming applications that are currently being restrained by IP address scarcity.
Globally addressable numeric addresses enable end to end communication. What we lose when using NAT is simplicity. Simplicity is what would enable more communications applications to become practicle. As it is now, when using NAT, either the application software or user needs to do extra work either setting up a static route or discovering a route through a NAT. It should be clear that this unnecessary complexity imposed by the artificial scarcity of IP addresses limits the broader practicality of direct (most efficient) end-to-end video, voice and data communications over IP.
Sure, there are some companies that profit from the scarcity of IPv4 addresses, but this is akin to the rise in gas prices, which raises oil company profits, but at the expense of a far greater number of people and companies that would have otherwise benefited from the increase of commerce that results when energy and transportation costs go down.
Comunication cost and ease of communication are fundamental economic drivers. When communication is easier and cheaper, the economy as a whole will be better. Replacing IPv4 with IPv6 means communication would be both easier and cheaper(as long as the rollout costs don't get out of hand).
end of the bar (Score:5, Funny)
It's about time (Score:5, Interesting)
Next up, metres and kilogrammes (you can spell them American if you really want).
Re:It's about time (Score:4, Funny)
As far as I know, the U.S. military uses metric exclusively. Also, they use the 24 hour format, not that idiotic AM/PM stuff. So, with the military dictatorship coming in a few months, your wish might come true. ;-)
Re:It's about time (Score:3, Funny)
Makes it a pain in the ass for glider pilots who want to calculate glide ratios!
Re:It's about time (Score:2, Funny)
What do you mean yards and miles?
Re:It's about time (Score:3, Insightful)
>Do you think the US actually cares if you have to pay extra for putting a sticker on something?
Obviously not.
>Compared to translation costs and the like (most of the EU does not speak English), adopting UPC is not that big of a deal, and less so now given the standard.
EAN is actually the standard everywhere, not just Europe, except the US. There are other countries in the world that publish in English, you know (the UK, Australia, NZ, for a start). When they export books to the US,
Why the hell are they doing this? (Score:3, Interesting)
Then again, certain ISO standards....*shutter*.
For the tin foil madhatters out there, the standard doesn't provide enough addressing space to address dittly squat. I suppose getting everyone on the same standard is a step in that direction, since the next step could be setting up bar-codes that do have unique addresses (people'll be reading codes off in base-64) for later, but still.
Anyway, this may work in our favor; if the codes are standardised and it looks like there's country codes on them, one can memorise the codes you can tell which products are most likely baught from 3rd world countries via slave labor, and which are local. You can tell when they bring in the big crate of oranges from the big upc sticker weither or not they're from mexico and sprayed with DDT or not.
MMMMMMmmmm...I'v stayed up too late. I need to get some popcorn and coffie, get wired, and do some studying.
Misleading link (Score:2)
Inevitable (Score:5, Insightful)
1. GSM mobile phones.
2. Metric. (*)
3. Standard international dialing. (00 + country)
And one I won't be holding my breath for:
4. A universal healthcare system.
(*) Laugh all you like, global corporations are gonna use metric for everything, not stupid US-only units. Eventually this will trickle down to everyday life. It may take decades, but...
Re:Inevitable (Score:2, Informative)
I have a professor who actually think the base-unit in US for mass AND weight is the pound (he coined the word, pound-mass and pound-weight).
Just for those who don't know. The base-unit for mass in US-unit is a slug, the weight is a pound. And 32 slug = a pound because the acceleration due to
OSR... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Inevitable (Score:3, Insightful)
Gov't anti-metric (Score:5, Interesting)
For example, there'a sign on I-87 in NY which reads:
Montreal 300 miles (482.8 km)
There is no sign 50 miles later that says:
Montreal 400 km (248.5 miles)
so, you see, Imperial is easy, Metric is hard.
Re:Gov't anti-metric (Score:3, Insightful)
In other news... (Score:2, Funny)
Ah crap (Score:2)
I once went to a Church ... (Score:2, Interesting)
What happens to old bar codes? (Score:5, Interesting)
BTW who assigns barcode numbers and do they reap huge financial rewards from performing such a task?
Peace
Re:What happens to old bar codes? (Score:3, Informative)
But I haven't worked with bar codes for about 10 years, I could have remembered that wrong.
Re:What happens to old bar codes? (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.uc-council.org/ean_ucc_system/member
No the Mark of the Beast! (Score:4, Funny)
Help! What's the politically-correct position? (Score:3, Funny)
Do I have to boycott barcoded products?
Re:Mobile Phones (Score:2, Informative)
Besides, cross-Europe standards make sense: European countries are small, and border crossings are common. The same is not true of North America, where the countries are large (2 of them being the number 2 and 3 largest countries in terms of size), and the ph
Re:Mobile Phones (Score:3, Funny)
"Next you'll be telling me that you don't use good old metre's and kilo's."
Re:Mobile Phones (Score:3, Funny)
True. They're too expensive to be loosable at the moment.
"you should know already you need a tri-band phone if you are going to travel anywhere important in the world."
I do. I should get one at some point. As you say, it would be useful for going to Canada.
Phil
Re:Mobile Phones (Score:3, Informative)
GSM has about 1 billion subscribers.
Re:Mobile Phones (Score:3, Informative)
This [umtsworld.com] page shows you that latest numbers are 70% of subscribers use GSM, 12% CDMA.
Incidentally, the US are the heaviest users of mobile tech - 458 minutes per month on average!
Re:Does this mean... (Score:2)
Re:Does this mean... (Score:2)
If you think checking them out will be bad, just wait until you try to return them!
Re:Let's go metric! (Score:2)
Peace
Re:Metric? (Score:3, Insightful)
it's time to be rid of the old British system... EVEN BRITAIN DON'T USE THEM ANY MORE!!!
Oh, how I wish that were true. Britain still marks road signs in miles, sells milk in pints (this is a recent thing - it's getting so that it's difficult to buy litres of milk), and even has "Metric Martyrs" refusing - still - to adopt SI units.
New Zealand switched to Metric in the space of a few weeks - Britain is currently aiming for "a few decades...and counting".
...Not that I care, I just think the US approach
Re:Metric? (Score:3, Informative)
First, we tend to call them "Imperial" measurements, after the guy that invented them, Bob Imperial*.
Everybody under the age of about 40 has always been taught metric units from birth, so many of us have no real life experience using purely imperial units. However, we have plenty of infrastructures that will probably never swap over to metric, even in 30/40 years' time when there will be very few imperial-only peeps left.
All "long"-distance road signs in Britain are in miles. A sign say
Re:Metric? (Score:5, Funny)
The dirty little secret... (Score:3)
I don't intend to excuse legitimate abuses, but