MS admits Newsbot Biased Towards MSNBC 277
JasdonLe writes "According to this article at the Washington Post, Microsoft's recently unleashed news aggregator site, Newsbot will choose to display MSNBC articles over other articles on the same topic.
"As Newsbot resides on MSNBC and is branded as such, MSNBC is considered a first among equals, meaning that if they and another top-tier source offer the same story, information, etc., MSNBC will be listed first, followed by other sources," says Elizabeth Herrera Smith, Microsoft spokeswoman."
This is a good example of MS..... (Score:5, Insightful)
In many regards comparing Google search to MSN search and Google news to MSs newsbot is apples and oranges. In order for MS to unseat Google they have to be (MS execs read this carefully) BETTER. Until then
Re:This is a good example of MS..... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd say they are very much getting it. They are using brand recognition in one area to expand in another. Many, many successful corporations do that. Google, for instance, exploits their superb brand recognition gained from a web search engine to branch out into news.
Anyway, it's their party and they'll invite who they want to. You don't have to go there if you don't like those terms.
Paul
Another example of MS being out of touch... (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft: "Not getting it"
Microsoft managers have little ability to learn and appreciate how others see them. Preferring MSNBC over other news sources is seen by them as "branding". It's seen by others as conflict of interest.
Microsoft managers don't realize that we don't want to live in the little box that they construct for us.
As Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer become more and more bored with their business, and more and more tired with doing every day what they have done since they were teenagers, Microsoft is slipping more and more out of control. There are Microsoft people who aren't actually doing anything for anyone, but who have jobs there and want to keep them.
There are fewer and fewer top managers at Microsoft who both recognize that there needs to be vigorous re-organization, and have the power to accomplish it. In years past the company was as arrogant as it is today, but more alive.
Re:Another example of MS being out of touch... (Score:5, Insightful)
What you don't realise is that most people don't care. Most people who use a new search engine want to find relevant news. If the news is relevant, few will care whether its source is MSNBC or CNN.
As Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer become more and more bored with their business, and more and more tired with doing every day what they have done since they were teenagers, Microsoft is slipping more and more out of control. There are Microsoft people who aren't actually doing anything for anyone, but who have jobs there and want to keep them.
Why do you think so? Microsoft is highly profitable. I'd say that a rather robust indicator they're doing something right.
From a business perspective their actions make total sense.
Do people care about themselves? Yes, they do. (Score:4, Insightful)
"What you don't realise is that most people don't care."
Even people I meet who have no special interest in computers know that Google is the best search engine. They care, and they don't use the Microsoft product. They know that Microsoft will try to influence them in a hidden or not-so-hidden way.
There are fewer and fewer people who "don't care", and there is more and more competition for the attention of the shrinking pool of people who can be taken advantage of because of their lack of simple knowledge of the Internet.
"Microsoft is highly profitable."
Having a virtual monopoly should not be confused with being good at business management. If you had a monopoly on water, you would make Bill Gates look poor in a week, and all the business magazines would say what a great businessman you were.
Re:Do people care about themselves? Yes, they do. (Score:3, Informative)
How do they know Google isn't doing the same, only more subtly?
In fact, John Young at Cryptome [cryptome.org] has a post up describing how Google refused to provide him services for reasons it will not explain. That Cryptome is not exactly a favorite of the powers-that-be wouldn't
Google's services... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Do people care about themselves? Yes, they do. (Score:3, Interesting)
Google has their standards.
This does not mean that I know what they are.
This does not mean that Google always follows them.
This does not mean that they are always the highest in the industry.
The same will apply to the New York Times (and I'm sure plenty of others).
Reporter fakes stories and the powers-that-be "are not amused".
Both are "main-line" and I see no reason either should feel any compulsion to feature any and all crack-pots that com
Re:Another example of MS being out of touch... (Score:4, Insightful)
Then you've proven the point of the parent that branding doesn't matter and you've discounted Microsoft's whole concept behind what they are doing. However you say Microsoft is doing something right. Really, which is it?
Re:Another example of MS being out of touch... (Score:3)
Same argument applies to con men, to armed robbers, to the mob.
As a result of the interaction, it's Microsoft that winds up with the money.
Re:Another example of MS being out of touch... (Score:4, Insightful)
News aggregator services are expressly intended for persons who do care. If persons simply wanted relevant news and did not care if it were from CNN or MSNBC, they would be reading CNN or MSNBC already. However by stepping into the news aggregator space MSN is indicating they are aiming for a slightly different group, one which explicitly cares about diversity in their media intake.
Perhaps people who already read MSN but would occasionally like a second perspective might be persuaded to stick with MSN; perhaps this feature might lure away CNN readers. However ostensibly this feature exists to compete with Google, not CNN. If MSN is trying to capture away Google News readers with their aggregator service, they are seriously sabotaging themselves with their editorial preference toward MSN since the entire purpose of a news aggregation site is as a central hub which collects items of importance but which itself tries not to impose editorial preferences.
Why do you think so? Microsoft is highly profitable. I'd say that a rather robust indicator they're doing something right.
From a business perspective their actions make total sense.
Every single division of Microsoft except for the Office and Windows divisions lose money. The one exception is one quarter last year when MSN briefly made a small profit. Since Microsoft's MSN division, in general, loses money, it is fair to assume they are doing something wrong.
Re:Another example of MS being out of touch... (Score:4, Insightful)
There may be some room for the WP and other papers to claim monopolistic practices, however, since MSN is the default home page of the default browser of the operating system on 94% of desktops.
Re:This is a good example of MS..... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:This is a good example of MS..... (Score:4, Insightful)
"Anyway, it's their party and they'll invite who they want to. You don't have to go there if you don't like those terms."
Will Microsoft make it clear on the front page the search will be the equivalent of an Amway party?
Re:This is a good example of MS..... (Score:3, Insightful)
it scares me that a few persons could bias what news we get or what results are displayed (at the top of the list)
but microsoft with their world domination plans is not exactly the way to go either
Re:This is a good example of MS..... (Score:2)
Re:This is a good example of MS..... (Score:5, Insightful)
Precisely. I love Google because they have no bias. I just checked Google News [google.com] and they have the following headline on one of their top Sci/Tech stories:
The Google newsbot put a front page link up about Microsoft's new newsbot.
Do you think that Microsoft's newsbot would do the same for Google's bot?
>Re:This is a good example of MS..... (Score:2)
Microsoft Deploys Newsbot To Track Down Headlines The Google newsbot put a front page link up about Microsoft's new newsbot.
Google has no bias? Do you really believe that? And do you think as a publicly owned company they won't be biased in the future?
Look, every publicly owned company has an obligation, including Microsoft, and soon Google, to try to
Re:This is a good example of MS..... (Score:3, Insightful)
Is it not the point though, that Google are attempting to follow the usually idealistic notion that you can actually turn a profit being an honest business as long as you are very good at what you do?
Re:This is a good example of MS..... (Score:2, Insightful)
How do you know? It may appear so, but you don't have the source code to their system, and you don't know the inner workings of their company. There's no transparency there, so you can't know that there's no bias. My suspicion is that there's not any right now (or perhaps much less than the MS newsbot) but you can't ever be sure.
Re:This is a good example of MS..... (Score:3, Informative)
Because their results display no bias. How hard is that to figure out?
Re:This is a good example of MS..... (Score:2, Interesting)
What do you mean? What criteria do you use to determine whether or not results display bias?
Re:This is a good example of MS..... (Score:2)
I think you're being paranoid [reference.com]. Google is a very transparent company and has always been such. They are proud of their tech and like to show it off. Their claim of non-bias is better than MS's stated bias by default.
To be fair, tho'... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:To be fair, tho'... (Score:2)
Re:The BBC unbaised HA, that will be the day (Score:2)
There is a difference between off-topic and a mild tangent springing from the subjects raised by parent po
Re:This is a good example of MS..... (Score:5, Insightful)
Google is going to have a fight on its hands in a few years time, as it will be rendered invisible to people with new PCs, hidden behind MS' own search engine...
Re:This is a good example of MS..... (Score:2)
Re:This is a good example of MS..... (Score:2)
LOL.
The difference this time is that Google is already a huge competitor- they can afford the legal armies and lobby the politicians and so forth if Microsoft try that sort of thing again.
oh, they get it. (Score:4, Insightful)
These goals make it impossible for M$ to ever be objective or as good or better than Google. When Slate publishes an article recommending another browser over IE, Slate is sold off. Guess where that Slate article shows up on a newsbot search for "IE Firefox." [msn.com] Somewhere way way after four or five blurbs about Firefox errors. A Google news search for the same thing [google.com] finds an article that references Slate at #10. Google's bias is to refelect the news not to make Firefox look bad like M$'s site is. The same pattern is demonstrated whenever anyone mentions a M$ search engine. The contents are filtered by meta rules that manipulate rather than inform the reader.
I can only hope that most people think like you that it's better to be informed than manipulated.
Re:This is a good example of MS..... (Score:2)
In order for MS to unseat Google they have to be (MS execs read this carefully) BETTER.
You couldn't be more wrong. Microsoft is rarely better than the competition; they know, and they don't care. They just have to be the default. If getting MS search is one less click than getting Google search, and it's good enough, I wouldn't want to be a Google investor.
Google being better will matter to those folks that are particular. News flash: most folks aren't. Microsoft's strength is that they understan
Re:This is a good example of MS..... (Score:2)
It is ridiculous to ask any company to be completely unbiased. They're trying to turn a profit, and putting MSNBC at the top of the list helps.
BTW, it would be a different story (and more typical Microsoft behavior) if they ONLY showed MSNBC articles sometimes. As long
Hmm... (Score:5, Funny)
Try putting "Newsbot Biased" in their search (Score:5, Informative)
News Search Results
Find Your News: Newsbot Biased
No results
Yep, I think that says it all really.
Re:Try putting "Newsbot Biased" in their search (Score:4, Interesting)
In related news... (Score:2)
--
The point of this story is what exactly? (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps I'm thick, but this kind of seems obvious to me. How else would anyone expect them to do it?
Re:The point of this story is what exactly? (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't think you're thick, you're just not understanding what kind of service they claim to be providing, and what they're supposed to be competing with.
Google News is a news aggregator. It's essentially like having Superman as your paperboy. Go to one site, get news from everywhere. Google shows no bias, which is exactly why *I* started using it (and I know I'm not alone in this fact).
Look, here's the thing: Most news sources run stories from all over the place--affiliates, reuters, AP--but they're usually biased to some degree. With Google News you finally had a source that was robotic in it's ambivalence, something many people have been looking for for years. I would argue that the entire reason for Google News' success lies on it's unbiased nature.
So...If you wanted to compete with a product whose success rested on it's unbiased nature...Why would you introduce a biased product? That's the point, my friend. (Of course, the only way MS knows how to win is through tactics like these, but moves like this one still come as a shock.)
Re:The point of this story is what exactly? (Score:2, Informative)
Euphamism of the Week (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Euphamism of the Week (Score:4, Informative)
longer than that, fun with news. (Score:3, Interesting)
Given M$'s slave driving ambitions, the reference to autocracy must be intentional. Microsoft's audacity never ceases to amaze.
If you like that kind of thing, you might as well do your research in pre 1990 Pravda or Tass which are essentially identical. Remember the Russian proverb as you do, "There's no truth in the news
Re:Euphamism of the Week (Score:2, Informative)
Does it matter to the masses though? (Score:5, Insightful)
There are a lot of Google users out there, but MS's name is even more widely known and I hear their advertising budget isn't too shabby.
Many people will figure it out.. (Score:2)
Re:Does it matter to the masses though? (Score:2)
Yes: Anyone using web to work around bias. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes.
The main tool of propagandists is not the big lie, but bias:
- Distort qualitative opinions and cost-benefit analyses by giving rare occurrences of one sort lots of articles, common occurrences of the other little or none.
- Give one side front-page billing, hide the other on back pages.
- Give one side the first position in the article, the other one sentence near the end.
- Use loaded terms. (Example: If you live in a "home", on "grounds", in a "church camp", or even a "mansion" you're innocent, a "compound" and you're a demon.)
The establishment media have been doing this for years, and the cost of entry (and for some, government licensing requirements and regulations) have kept other voices from being heard. Their propaganda and viewpoints have converged into lockstep - by their herd-mentality following of the "Paper of Record"'s call on what events deserve coverage if nothing else.
The internet now makes it impossible for the establishment media to bury a story, and to keep other viewpoints marginalized by consistent biased characterization. Yet they still try. So when people discover that they can find more of what they're looking for on the net they switch their news sources. This has been a disaster for the establishment media.
A news search engine biases placement of their own content first (and possibly other like-minded content second, random content third, and different-minded last), rather than giving placement solely on the search match, enables them to pull the same class of stunt on their engine's users. To people who are searching the web to escape biased news coverage this matters very greatly. Once they understand MSNBC has done this (even at a subconscious level) they are likely to avoid it in favor of other resources.
But the presence of the biased engine means many people new to the web, who latch onto that engine first, will be long delayed in their appreciation of and access to unbiased search engines and unbiased or other-biased news sources.
Re:Does it matter to the masses though? (Score:2)
differences between services. (Score:2)
That's not true at all. This is another tool of public manipulation. First, the order of article reporting is manipulated. Second, the same article by the same author can be manipulated by omission of sections. The fact that M$ "partnered" with NBC shows a keen desire to shape public opinion through "news".
I have an example
Re:Does it matter to the masses though? (Score:2)
War on news sources? (Score:5, Informative)
What is the deal for content publishers to give MSN and Google access to their databases? If it is readers attention, this way is the wrong way.
Could MSN adopt paid content for their newsbot? This would be another business modell.
MS are incapable of seeing the world... (Score:5, Insightful)
They have such a tight knit community going on within MS that they think their way is the only one that works. While this is great for those people inside MS, and we have all read about how great they are to work for, it doesn't convince the rest of the world, and Court decisions prove this.
Why do they insist on being blinded by the branding? They could easily challenge Google if they did what Google does, but with a bigger brand, instead they choose to take away the very thing that Google is popular in with their own offering.
Google is NOT unbiased, Page Rankings count as a bias to me, but they are the very closest thing to it that we have.
Yeah... (Score:2, Funny)
In other news, MSNBC reports confirm the sky is blue, cancer is bad, and there's a hidden, lethal chemical in your house, just waiting to kill your children, story at 11.
Hey, Taco!! Come ON!! Give Me A Break!! (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, wait...
never mind...
Re:Hey, Taco!! Come ON!! Give Me A Break!! (Score:2, Funny)
From the 'Duh' file... (Score:4, Insightful)
Not the same thing (Score:2)
I'm not buying anything.
Google's Aggregator Wastes My Time (Score:3, Interesting)
But, what's the problem, anyway? It's a commerical enterprise. It's got a big freakin' MSNBC logo on it. Why wouldn't they give preference to their own stuff?
It's not like Google's system is perfect. I don't use their news aggregator because there is no human judgment used in its story selection. When you are looking for coverage of an event, it's just as likely to give preference to a useless tertiary wire s
Re:From the 'Duh' file... (Score:2)
Re:From the 'Duh' file... (Score:2)
Wheeeee (Score:5, Insightful)
Good for Microsoft! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Good for Microsoft! (Score:2)
This is an interesting fact; however, I wouldn't put on my tin foil hat yet. The simplest explanation would be that Richar
Well.. (Score:2)
I would have done the same thing (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I would have done the same thing (Score:2)
Categorically wrong (Score:2)
Re:I would have done the same thing (Score:2)
And the public using this service cares that it's internally easier for MS to take the 'lazy route'? Makes for a great branding position: "We might not do it best, but we expend less effort!" I'll take a dozen!
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
WTF? (Score:2)
The unsponsored links are at the same level, on the left side of the page.
And if you read English, you read from left to right. So you'll see the unsponsored link first.
Wrong, wrong, wrong (Score:2)
newsbot is moreover.com rebranded (Score:5, Insightful)
eg:
http://g.msn.com/0PNENUS/1?http://c.moreover.co
remember with MSN sites YOU are the product, the content is merely filler, all of their sites are just advertising and user tracking applications, not convinced ? then view source of their pages and see for yourself
nice tracking code such as
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/js/nmjs06.js
adding onmouseover/onmouseout handlers to the links so you dont spot the link tracking, if its no big deal why hide the tracking ?
if any network needs to be blocked as a security/privacy risk its MSN
In other news.... (Score:5, Funny)
Pope is Catholic
Bear Shits in Woods
Re:In other news.... (Score:2)
Completely off-topic, i know
Nick...
Gee, never noticed this bias before....... (Score:4, Interesting)
Monopolys are dangerous and self replicating especially when they begin to control the news media.
Actually that is fair (Score:2)
I assumed this from the beginning. (Score:3, Interesting)
Doesn't bother me (Score:2)
Anybody know how references back to their own articles here comes into any sort of antritrust matter?
Could it be argued that this practice will not give true indications and demonstrate just how easily it would be to use this service to mislead people, or am I thinking about this all the wrong way? Any law-savvy types in the house?
Secret: Newsbot is just a CNAME to news.google.com (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft has realized that most of their customers are unfamiliar with typing URLs. Therefore, Microsoft has invented "newsbot".
This patent-pending innovation will permit internet users (for example, MSN customers) to click on a web link to read news from various news sources. The newsbot link seemlessly directs users to a near-perfect replica of news.google.com, the premier news aggregation site on the internet.
Microsoft can also leverage this technology to manipulate news stories, promoting and demoting news stories based on a customer's interests, tax records, and party affiliation.
And now for a taste of reality... (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft co-owns MSNBC with NBC-Universal. Presently, MSNBC's cable ratings are in the cellar, behind CNN and Fox"news." It really sux being in last place.
Microsoft, which is profit-minded, wishes to drive people to their product. In fact, they have taken specific steps to do that in other areas. Has anyone noticed that there is a free, installable copy of Microsoft Money given away with each copy of their operating system? (One wonders if it is ever actually installed...)
The issue here is, while there are better news sites out there, Microsoft wishes you to try theirs. If MSNBC winds up as bad as Microsoft Money as compared to Intuit's Quicken, people will start ignoring the existence of the link, unless the provenance of the link is hidden.
Frankly, I think both Microsoft and NBC Universal have a lot of work to do on MSNBC in making the content more compelling and more accurate. last I heard, MSNBC didn't work with Apple's browser and didn't work well with most of the alternatives to Internet Exploiter. Their content has gaps, many large. The NBC Network creates news stories that are run later (and in news time lots later on MSNBC -- in essence, the news is "repurposed" on MSNBC with the only actual news reported stuff that is freely available from the NBC affiliate stations (car chases and floods -- also re-purposed). Inviting Yet Another Talking Head to speak to your miniscule audience is not news.
I don't think Microsoft's spider will change the fact that there is nothing compelling on MSNBC. They're facing the same problem there that they have with their personal finance program.
I wonder... (Score:2)
News for Nerds... (Score:2)
I didn't realize Slashdot was in the business of pointing out the extremely obvious. How about some links that state that the sun is hot, or that Abraham Lincoln is dead?
In Other News... (Score:5, Funny)
Paraphrase Animal Farm (Score:2, Funny)
credibility (Score:2, Interesting)
Unlike MSN, and to a lesser extent Yahoo, Google is a primarily a search engine. It will provide a list of results based on the user query. The results will be ordered based on a predetermined method or ranking that attempts to put 'top ranked' results at top. Because Google's purpose appears to be to serve users, and not cross promote other corporate assets, users wi
Horrors! (Score:5, Insightful)
It's ugly and hard to use (Score:2, Insightful)
Alternative to Google News (Score:4, Interesting)
I've found Topix.net [topix.net] to be more encompassing than either site. The site was created by former Netscape employees. It categorizes news into very specialized topics. The search functions better than Google News's, which seems to have a much small database for many subjects when compared with Topix.
All of the news aggregates seem inadequate. Google News [google.com] has a great interface, but often I don't find news articles on specific subjects when searching the site. Obviously, MSN Newsbot [msn.com] will be biased towards MSNBC. (BTW, the URL, newsbot.msnbc.com, is really redundant!) Even Topix, which I pimped up there, has some bad points too. Google remains the king for relevant and enticing advertisements, and the ads are sometimes annoying or irrelevant on Topix (tho not nearly as annoying as with most sites). And sometimes there are some repeats from other services; although, it is mostly OK. Are aggregates the "new" search engines?
(I know this is a little off-topic, so please excuse my tangent.)
As much as I love a good Microsoft-bash (Score:2)
Is this news ? (Score:3, Interesting)
- Newsbot publicly keeps up that it is an unbiased news-site
- Newsbot is not owned (in a way) by Microsoft
- Newsbot is refusing to show the news from other equal sources, while stating otherwise
I see none of that here, so erm: why is this news ?
It's M$'s right to chose their own news over other news. Heck, they can do whatever they want with it, even spreading FUD about Linux losing shares in server-land and Windows being the most stable and fast server platform ever.
This wouldn't be a surprise, it is M$-policy.
On the other hand, we have the right to not chose newsbot for our news, and happily stay with Google's version.
So again: is this news ?
What is the big deal? (Score:3, Insightful)
All news reflects the business interests of the parent companies.
For example, in the US, that is why the Bush vs. Kerry news coverages is so incredibly biased towards Bush. For people who own millions in stock equity, etc., and for multinational corporations, 4 nore years of Bush is a big deal, money-wise.
I am not surprised that MSN routes people to MSNBC. BTW, I think that MSNBC is actually more fair-minded than CNN, CBS, ABC, etc. This is just a casual observation, but MSNBC tends to cover topics like Israel's nuclear/chemical/biological weapons programs that other news media in the US stay away from (although the NY Times also has fairly broad news coverage).
I am no fan of Microsoft, but as a news service, MSNBC is pretty good.
-Mark
Re:What is the big deal? (Score:2)
Your cynicism aside, that's actually false. By law, every media outlet must provide equal time for every candidate on issues. I'm sure to what you're referring is George Bush the president, not George
Re:What is the big deal? (Score:2)
After speeches at the Democratic National Convention, the major news media would allow Republican pundits to dis all over the speakers.
I don't think that you will see this during the Republican National Convention (i.e., immediately letting Democratic pundits dis thge Republican speakers) - let's wait and see.
Best regards,
Mark
If's for this reason (Score:2)
No Surprise then... (Score:2)
Nick
Pot meet the kettle, now hug and cry together (Score:4, Insightful)
MSNBC Newsbot Prefers MSNBC (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe it's the fact that it says "MSNBC News" at the top of the screen, or the big MSNBC logo in the corner, but it is blatantly obvious that Newsbot is an MSNBC product.
http://newsbot.msn.com
Take a look - MSNBC logos all over. Why is it news at all that it prefers MSNBC stories?
Re:Can you say shoot yourself in the foot? (Score:3, Informative)
So... it's not like they're shutting out anybody. And Newsbot is part of MSNBC, so really, what would you expect, for Newsbot to ALWAYS prefer other news organization's stories over MSNBC? Is that "unbiased" enough for you?
Re:So What? Google does the same and is normal! (Score:2)
This invalidates your point somewhat.
nick
Re:So What? Google does the same and is normal! (Score:2)
Cricket [google.com]
Google recognises the search as being currently topical and adds a link (which is clearly seperate to the search results) to the news page.
However you will find that if you click that link the first news story in this case comes from the Jamaica Observer. Its simply untrue to say its "googles article" google doesnt really have articles of its own. It doesnt have its own media