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Television Media Privacy

FCC Says TiVo Owners Can Share Shows 196

Posted by timothy from the with-enough-caveats-you-can-build-a-boat dept.
Ec|ipse writes "Last week TiVo received alot of heat from MPAA and NFL for a proposal regarding sharing of recorded shows with users, see previous story. Today it looks like TiVo has received approval." From the Reuters story as carried by Yahoo!: "TiVo, maker of popular digital television recording devices, on Wednesday received approval for technology that would permit users to send copies of digital broadcast shows over the Internet to a few friends."
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FCC Says TiVo Owners Can Share Shows More

FCC Says TiVo Owners Can Share Shows

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  • YES! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by grumpygrodyguy ( 603716 )
    Three words....

    There is a GOD!

    • Re:YES! (Score:2, Informative)

      by SpooForBrains ( 771537 )
      Three more: Never gonna happen :)
    • Three words....

      umm, make that 4-words, but still! =)

    • Re:YES! (Score:5, Informative)

      by aka-ed ( 459608 ) <robt.public@NOSPaM.gmail.com> on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:09PM (#9883596) Homepage Journal
      Don't celebrate. Did you RTFA? DRM will keep your shared programming to a max of 9 good friends. No promise that the presence of DRM won't allow some things to be made unshareable somewhere up the road. Anyway it won't be in your hands to make those decisions...

      • Re:YES! (Score:3, Insightful)

        by PierceLabs ( 549351 )
        9 friends > 0 friends, and in this day and age we have to take the victories we can get.

      • Re:YES! (Score:5, Funny)

        by ron_ivi ( 607351 ) <sdotno@che[ ]omp ... m ['apc' in gap]> on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:40PM (#9883892)
        There are /. readers with more than 9 friends! Wow.
      • Once you allow it to be copied to the home computer, the DRM becomes useless- because you simply copy the file, and hide it in a zip, before sending it out to 9 friends, then bring out a new copy, send it to 9 more friends, etc. It does prevent MASS duplication quickly, however.

        • Re:YES! (Score:5, Informative)

          by The Only Druid ( 587299 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:57PM (#9884057)
          Well, there are a few places you're incorrect.

          First, TivoToGo seems to be a streaming application, akin to the current HMO features on Tivos. This means that there will [likely] never be a complete copy of the file on the computer. This of course doesn't prevent someone from developing an app to catch the stream. Good luck though.

          Second, you didn't read the article: in order to play back one of the Tivo'd files, you'll need a physical dongle - a small USB tab - to provide the decryption key. That is how they limit you to nine people: only nine dongles can be tied into your Tivo's account.

          Now, it should be noted that existing hacks (look for "Sleeper's ISO" for more info, to start) provide the ability to fully extract video off a Tivo (after it's been hacked somewhat), and that is what Tivo is trying to combat. In much the same way that iTunes' Music Store snagged the music-downloaders who were willing to pay a little for the convenience of (a) downloading the file quickly and (b) doing so legally, Tivo is hoping that TivoToGo will snag the people who want to view their shows in other places and do so without violating their warranty.
          • Why not just install Vstream on the Tivo and Tivo-Mplayer [sourceforge.net] on the remote PC?

            share with whomever you want. ...or FTP the video off the Tivo and watch it in regular Mplayer?

          • I'm not sure if they've changed the technology since it was first announced, but one of the selling points in the original announcement was something along the lines of copying a show to your laptop and watching it on an airplane. Doesn't sound like streaming technology to me. To my understanding, you get a copy of the show on your computer that you can only watch with their special TivoToGo player (or possibly a codec that can plug into other players).
    • Hopefully this will open up the ability for dvarchive to include show-sharing for the ReplayTV users. I don't think it's a problem adding the code, it's just not on the top of the developer's list of things to do.

      --
      3 Gmail invitations availiable [retailretreat.com]

      • Re:YES! (Score:3, Informative)

        by aka-ed ( 459608 )
        I doubt it. Your circle of friends have to be authorized by a key. You can't switch those around very easily, I'm sure.

    • Re:YES! (Score:3, Insightful)

      by TedCheshireAcad ( 311748 )
      Maybe so, but there still isn't decent home broadband speed to handle this kind of punishment. Imagine trying to send out 300-400MB from your home cable modem to 5 people. It would take a long freaking time, especially with many cable providers capping upload speeds severely.

      Now maybe if they could hire Bram Cohen to implement a really bad-ass p2p way of sending things about, maybe then the poor guy could stop begging for handouts on his BitTorrent site.

      In a perfect world, this could all be easily s

    • Re:YES! (Score:3)

      by SEE ( 7681 )
      Of course there is a God, for TiVo is God's machine.
    • Three words:

      That's four words!

    • but have you seen the dongle? (no i'm not being dirty...) Keep your silly DRM off my mpeg's =)

      Although I realize in order for TiVo to seem "on the level" they need to provide certain assurances of copyright "protection". But man... I can't stand requiring a dongle for anything ( i.e. license management for software )

      e.

  • Strike one ! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    now about this RIAA mob...

  • Amazing... A step forward? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ianbnet ( 214952 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:07PM (#9883559)
    I am always skeptical of how this will play out in the long run, but this looks like it could have a significant impact in returning fair-use rights to consumers.

    I would love to know how this might act as a precedent for computer-based sharing methods... i.e. recording a show with BeyondTV or another PVR and emailing it to a friend.
    • Now, they just need to come up with a system so you can track your closest friends to ensure that you don't give it to someone who isn't a friend of yours.

      Oh, wait, do I really want the government to have that information? I mean it would be wonderful, when they drag you in for being a terrorist, they can drag your friends in as well, or when one of your friends gets dragged in, so do you.

      Ted Tschopp
      • The government doesn't have to - Tivo's doing it for them. Content can only be transferred between devices associated to the same credit card. Are you going to give something that you're paying a significant monthly fee for to a complete stranger?

    • Before the Smack-Down (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ackthpt ( 218170 ) * on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:22PM (#9883722) Homepage Journal
      TiVo, maker of popular digital television recording devices, on Wednesday received approval [from FCC] for technology that would permit users to send copies of digital broadcast shows over the Internet to a few friends."

      I am always skeptical of how this will play out in the long run, but this looks like it could have a significant impact in returning fair-use rights to consumers. ... I would love to know how this might act as a precedent for computer-based sharing methods.

      You know that this will be appealed to the powers-that-be who will smack-down the FCC, yet again. It's the kind of news that gives you hope, just before your cynicism of the system is reinforced.

    • Re:Amazing... A step forward? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:26PM (#9883752)
      More like a step to the side. Clearly not backwards but not entirely forward either.

      Here's the problem: "fair use" cannot be determined by a computer algorithm. People are attempting to use computer algorithms to make sure nothing outside "fair use" happens. Since error is inevitable, media companies always make sure the error is in the direction of "they're just making a backup but we think they're a pirate" than "they're making four hundred copies, but hey, maybe they've got 400 TVs". They may adjust their formulas every now and then but the new formulas will still be wrong.

      As long as we accept computers making LEGAL DECISIONS for us, then we will never get our fair use rights back. Getting fair use rights back MEANS also getting back the ability to pirate media. You can't separate one activity from the other except with a human judge. ...which is the way it should be. All DRM should simply go away. You will then have ALL of your fair use rights, and you will also have the ability to pirate media. However, pirating media has been against the law for as long as I can remember (longer than the computer industry has existed for sure), so you can still get arrested for it.

      So in my Slashdot-friendly dream world, everyone has fair use rights and pirates go to jail. In RIAA/MPAA DRM-friendly dream world, "fair use" users and pirates are both thrown in jail, and media companies, not the law, get to determine the new definition of "fair use". Today's definition is "sharing with 9 friends".

      • Re:Amazing... A step forward? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by gcaseye6677 ( 694805 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:38PM (#9883866)
        As we've seen with copy protected CDs, fair use rights don't always mean freedom for the customer. Apparently, the recording industry is permitted to make CDs that are "copyproof" despite fair use clauses in copyright law. The rationale is that the customer cannot be prosecuted for making personal copies but the producer does not have to do anything to enable that, and can apparently stop it too. In this case, I didn't see anything in the article that said the NFL or other content producers had to go along with this, it only said the FCC gave TiVO the OK on the technology. I expect to see lots of obstruction efforts on the part of media companies and would be surprised if this gets resolved anytime soon. In the mean time, legitimate customers will be inconvenienced and pirates will continue as usual.
        • Couple of problems:
          1. US Copyright laws Fair Use clauses do not support complete copying of copyrighted goods, only computer software has an exemption to allow you to back it up. Fair use clauses give you the power to use small, insignificant portions of the copyrighted material in other works, eg quoted sources.
          2. As you state, the copyright owner DOES NOT have to make it easy or able for you to exercise fair use clauses. I dont see the fair use in giving copies out to 9 other people, thats not fair use,

      • Re:Amazing... A step forward? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by homer_ca ( 144738 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @06:32PM (#9884379)
        "As long as we accept computers making LEGAL DECISIONS for us, then we will never get our fair use rights back."

        The reason people haven't complained about these laws against petty crimes is because traditionally it was impossible or impractical to enforce them perfectly. How the hell do you stop people from taping songs off the radio or lending VHS tapes of shows they recorded off the air or driving a few mph over the speed limit. Well now with computers it's possible to build recorders that refuse to record off the air or a computer for the car that prints out a speeding ticket every time you go over the speed limit even by 1 mph.

        There's an old saying: The best way to repeal an unpopular law is to enforce it strictly.

    • I would love to know how this might act as a precedent for computer-based sharing methods... i.e. recording a show with BeyondTV or another PVR and emailing it to a friend.

      That is excatly what the Broadcast Flag is supposed to prevent (with Digital TV anyway - Analog is still completely up for grabs for now ;-) ), and exactly what Tivo does not let you do.

  • What if Janet Jackson gets jiggy? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    But if JJ jumps up during half time and does a strip tease to some Willie Nelson song, can the RIAA sue the sh*t out of America?

  • Pessimist in me... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by KrackHouse ( 628313 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:08PM (#9883569) Homepage
    This will last a few days untill the waves of lobbyists show up and the FCC and demand a better return on investment.

  • I wonder... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Marscity9 ( 737103 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:08PM (#9883575)
    I have heard rumors about PMP (personal/portable media players) being able to hook up to the TIVO, and then you can watch it anywhere. If this would allow it, I think it would be great for Tivo, so anyone can use it to watch their favorite show anywhere.
    • You can actually do this with the windows media server and some new PMP that are coming out from Samsung, Sanyo and Creative. Amazon is taking pre-orders, though the products are not yet on the market. see this article for more info [yahoo.com]
    • Oh man ... and if you can share the media on your player on the internet.. You can be a PiMP!
    • Now lets fast forward 5-10 years. Lets say there is pervasive wifi in every major city. Now lets say portable video players have become mainstream, most likely due to Apple releasing a video iPod or something.

      Just imagine if TIVO had a service where you could subscribe to them (and you'd probably have to be a cable subscriber at home as well), and they would be able to stream or send the shows you scheduled to your PMP wherever you are. That would be seriously cool, and more than enough incentive to make

  • Wow (Score:4, Insightful)

    by brandonY ( 575282 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:08PM (#9883576)
    I'll be more impressed if they can be uploaded freely as a standard file without any of this password nonsense, but this is still much, much, much better than caving to the football lobby.

  • Groovy. What harm can it do? (Score:5, Funny)

    by underpar ( 792569 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:08PM (#9883578) Homepage
    I mean.. I know "airing regional games outside of their market" is dangerous to the fabric of society and capitalism as a whole, but I'd like to send 'Office Space' to my sister. It seems wrong for an office worker to have never seen that movie.

  • Finally, the Legal system working for us. (Score:5, Funny)

    by mesmartyoudumb ( 471890 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:09PM (#9883587)
    The End is near!
    Long gone are the days of law makers stomping on the face of the digitally inclined.

    So long 50 year copyright act!
    so long DMCA!
    So long RIAA lawsuites!

    Ok..maybe im a little optimistic.

  • At least until... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MaineCoon ( 12585 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:09PM (#9883591) Homepage
    At least until the corporations lobby and buy a change of decision from the FCC.

    While this is a win for fair use rights (although it could sanely be argued it goes beyond fair use, I'm not going to be the one doing the arguing), it goes without saying that the MPAA and friends will not take this sitting down.
    • They won't challenge the FCC (well, they might a little, for good publicity). They'll just change the laws instead. I'm sure they already have another "Induce Act" clone ready in some intern's hands, waiting to hand copies to senator hatch (he doens't deserve CAPS anymore) to introduce into law.

      In 5 years Tivos will either be illegal or they'll be licensed into bankruptcy and bought by MPAA/NFA member companies (then touted as the greatest modern invention since the Servel Refrigerator).

  • Hmm will MLB still come after me.. (Score:4, Funny)

    by NightWulf ( 672561 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:10PM (#9883598)
    if I only have implied oral consent..but not expressed written consent?
  • ... wasn't he quoted as saying that his newly gifted TiVo (back in 2k2 or something) was
    "God's machine"?

    Oh yeah, here's the link [sfgate.com]. What does this prove?

    • Yup. Funny how people act when they have an actual interest at stake, huh? If Powell didn't like his Tivo, how do you think this would have gone down?

      Now the broadcasters and MPAA are going to have to go to congress. Oh, wait, they already own that branch. INDUCE will have a special broadcast rights clause now... and I'm betting it won't be protecting consumers.

  • Wow... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Cyno01 ( 573917 ) <Cyno01@hotmail.com> on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:13PM (#9883629) Homepage
    Lets hear it for, uhm, more than fair use. So are we liking the FCC this week now or what?

  • ReplayTV was right after all (Score:3, Interesting)

    by vaylen ( 566986 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:15PM (#9883651) Journal
    Maybe this means http://www.planetreplay.com/ [planetreplay.com] can allow people to share shows from their ReplayTV's again.

  • ReplayTV anybody? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jahead ( 546597 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:16PM (#9883661) Homepage
    Anybody remember the ReplayTV 4500 and 5000 series? They both allowed show sharing. It was a major selling point for ReplayTV, in fact. They were sued by Disney and a few other broadcasters to stop show sharing (as well as an automatic commercial skip feature). There was even a limit on the number of times you could send a show (five times). Does this ruling mean that TiVo cannot be sued and that ReplayTV can reintroduce the feature?

  • What's next? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:16PM (#9883662)
    Legit bittorrent downloads? Sounds cool, but I wonder how long it'll last (TV shows to DVD is a lucrative market, and I doubt studios like the idea of competing with downloads). There's bound to be some limitations (I'm at work and too lazy/busy to read the whole article just yet), but still, I just can't believe this is happening. How did this get through?
    • Unless you can get a torrent of a complete season at resonable quality, which you can, but its still a PITA and slow, TV DVDs aren't going anywhere. Although they need to work out there pricing. $20 for the first season of Chappeles Show (13 20 minute eps and tons of special features), $50 for a season of Stargate (about 22 45 minute eps, special features) and Star Trek and Farscape (22-26 45 minute eps and some features for $100). Theres such a range on all of these, they really need to standardize a prici
      • It's not that hard to download DVD isos and burn them. Yes, it takes time, but if you're a $9 or less wage slave, your time is worth less than the cost of the DVD, especially when you consider how little real effort it takes to pirate stuff these days compared to the time you spend working to afford the actual DVD.

  • is this in the FCC's jurisdiction? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by josecanuc ( 91 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:20PM (#9883698) Homepage Journal
    Is this in the FCC's jurisdiction? They are in charge of regulating the airwaves of the United States. Once you've received a digital program over the air, does the FCC have any more authority to tell you what you can do with the copyrighted product that they don't even have the rights to distribute?

    I'm just asking...

    • Re:is this in the FCC's jurisdiction? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by ca1v1n ( 135902 ) <snook@NOSPaM.guanotronic.com> on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:27PM (#9883772)
      The FCC has the power to regulate devices which receive such signals. The TiVo does this. If you separated the receiver and the more interesting parts of the TiVo into separate black boxes, you probably wouldn't get anywhere, since they'd functionally be part of the same device.
    • That is a contested issue. When the broadcast flag was first proposed, several groups protested that the FCC does not have proper jurisdiction. (Of course the FCC thinks that they do.) It won't be resolved until either someone sues the FCC or Congress specifically authorizes the broadcast flag.

    • Re:is this in the FCC's jurisdiction? (Score:5, Informative)

      by PCM2 ( 4486 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:43PM (#9883917) Homepage
      Once you've received a digital program over the air, does the FCC have any more authority to tell you what you can do with the copyrighted product that they don't even have the rights to distribute?
      You are correct. What has happened here (according to the article) is that the FCC has adopted rules requiring digital broadcasters to implement controls (i.e. copy protection, DRM etc.) preventing indiscriminate sharing of media. So in other words, the FCC can regulate broadcasters, and one of the FCC's mandates to broadcasters is that the protect the rights of the copyright owners of the content they carry. TiVo has implemented some such restriction in thie new system, and the FCC has approved it -- meaning TiVo's system meets the FCC's definition of a scheme to protect copyright. (So I guess this also must mean that TiVo's system meet's the FCC's definition of a broadcaster?)

      Sounds to me like what's happened is that the MPAA and NFL won't be able to lobby the FCC to take action against TiVo. Instead, they'll have to spend their own money to sue TiVo under the DMCA.

      • As you said, the FCC regulates broadcasters, but TiVo boxes are not broadcasters. The FCC is trying to unilaterally expand their jurisdiction to cover receivers as well.
        • The FCC also regulates receivers because receivers can and do emit RF energy (by virtue of the tunable receiver design).

          However, they have typically cared only about the emissions levels and frequencies of receivers and not the actual functions.
    • The FCC did exactly what it's supposed to do when it specified the new digital TV broadcast standard; it created a national broadcast standard where clearly one is beneficial to the public. No jurisdiction question here.

      The MPAA successfully lobbied for the inclusion of the "broadcast flag" in the DTV standard, which when present in the broadcast signal requires the receiving device to provide appropriate copy protection to the program being broadcast. The FCC had no intent to disallow the recording, off

    • Re:is this in the FCC's jurisdiction? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Adrian Lopez ( 2615 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @07:43PM (#9884974) Homepage
      As far as I'm concerned they're out of their jurisdiction, but that's something only a judge can determine. Everybody here is celebrating the FCC's decision, but to me this is just another hint at the fact that the FCC is attempting to regulate copying through their broadcast flag mandate.

      I'd like to think that it's the job of Congress and not the FCC to regulate copying. Why is this an important distinction? Because congresspeople are elected, but FCC officials are appointed!

  • Yeah, Right. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by scowling ( 215030 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:22PM (#9883718) Homepage
    1. There's no way that this is gonna last.

    2. This is going to be used by current Usenet, BT and Kazaa-based sharers as justification for their broad distribution of TV shows (don't get me wrong; I download TV, but I wouldn't justify it like this).

  • What Is Today? (Score:3, Funny)

    by rsmith-mac ( 639075 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:25PM (#9883749)
    So does this mean this is a "love the FCC" day, or do we still get to hate them?
    • Yeah, I'm kinda stuck on, "How the H-E-double-hockey-sticks did that happen? Little weasels got something right for once." ...Which means there must be something cataclysmically _wrong_ about the TiVo plan that I'm just not seeing yet.
    • So does this mean this is a "love the FCC" day, or do we still get to hate them?

      Well let's see... If somebody snuck up behind you and hit you over the head with a bottle, then processed to beat you for several minutes, BUT didn't kick you while you were down, would you love them for it?

  • Reporting from Cheney, WA... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:27PM (#9883766)
    I am currently located here in the lovely city of Cheney, which happens to be hosting the Seattle Seahawks training camp.

    The other day, as my roommate and I walked past the practice field (paid for by my tax dollars!) I mentioned that the goings on with Tivo and the NFL were really getting on my nerves (as I am highly supportive of my right to sit around and stare at the glowing picture tube.)

    An eery silence descended upon the land.

    A giant of a man, who stood 6 foot 6, weighed 245 (at the least!) looked at me and asked if I might happen to be "that commie nerd, CmdrTaco", who I bear a striking resemblence to. Of course, I am but a humble code monkey and part-time troll, and so replied that I was not, nor had ever been, a commie nerd taco. He became enraged, and I feared that he would pummel me senseless for my insolence.

    Luckily, a giant dust storm swept me away.
    They even caught it on camera; NWCN I believe.

    Now, for the meat of my post- can somebody get me out of this tree before this guy turns off his wireless router or my laptop dies? SCO Unix doesn't manage power very well.

  • Supreme Court (Score:4, Insightful)

    by hhawk ( 26580 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:30PM (#9883804) Homepage Journal
    Let's just remember that the Supreme Court sided with Sony on the famous Betamax case that allowed VCRs/VRTs in the first place.

    Also, if there wasn't some type of DRM here they wouldn't have gotten certified.

    But if they hadn't granted some type of certification they would have run afoul of the Betamax ruling...
  • Why doesn't someone hook up analog cable to a bunch of these new Interet-aware Tivos and rent out the "friends" list for a monthly fee online. Each person gets a time share of when they want to watch a show and the machine will record it for them and broadcast it on the internet at their convenience. For $25 a month I'd like to watch all the shows I would otherwise miss.

  • Legality of sharing shows..? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by schmiddy ( 599730 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:38PM (#9883867) Homepage Journal
    I've been chewing on this for a while..

    I know it's legal for me to tape a TV show from the air onto VHS, DVD, or TiVo myself. I suspect it's probably legal for me to, say, loan the VHS tape to a friend so he/she can watch it as well. And now, obviously TiVo owners can send each other episodes they recorded.

    How is this all different than downloading a TV episode of a p2p network? I think I remember hearing of people getting DMCA notices for doing exactly that.

    Anyone know where the line is in this case?

  • Just Wait until someone gets sued... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by CygnusXII ( 324675 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:38PM (#9883873)
    This will last until someone get sued, and the case is taken to the Supreme court. It works the same way with legislation. Remember, this is FCC regulation, that doesn't mean it is final. The FCC is as wishy washy as all get out. Remember these are the Same folks that just said they were going to Regulate Violence on TV. Let us not lose track of the way Regulation and FCC have worked together. How bout them Analog Airwave Rights passing to Public Access?
    Now they are going to the highest bidder, once the Broadcasting corporations decide to grudgingly let loose of them.
    Still I am glad to see they are hanging themselves out there for the little guy, for once. (at least for NOW)

  • ReplayTV is the only way to go. (Score:3, Informative)

    by Dejohn ( 164452 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:39PM (#9883880) Homepage
    Tivo is nice, but ReplayTV is better. I use Pooli.com to share shows all the time with people all over the net. I've been using DVArchive to store shows on my PC's drive and burn to DVD for a long time. If you get the 5040 or 5080, Commercial Advance is fully operational and works great. As far as I know, none of this stuff is going to change for the ReplayTV.

  • MythTV...... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by AciDive ( 543624 )
    has been able to do this for quite some time via it's frontend/backend style setup. all you need to do is have a friend with a mythtv frontend or backend and have one of either or both yourself and you can watch the other persons shows over the internet.
  • with all the product placements in Movies and Tv shows, why bother with television ads? the more the show is shared, with proper product placement, you get more exposure of your product, to your target demographic.

  • This only makes sence (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @06:04PM (#9884128) Homepage Journal
    Since these shows were broadcast to the public, who can record them, it only makes sence to allow sharing.

    Sharing the copy of the broadcast would be no different then both people recording them on their own.

  • Why ask in the first place? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by OWJones ( 11633 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @06:14PM (#9884228)

    There's one big point that a lot of people seem to be missing:

    The fact that TiVo even had to ask the FCC in the first place.

    The assumption being that the FCC has some say over whether or not your hardware has the capability to send bits over the wire. Note that it's not whether or not you can send the bits over the wire, but your hardware. The first is behavior potentially regulated by the Constitution, the second is simple innovation.

    Yes, the FCC was nice. But it's crazy that TiVo had to ask in the first place. Don't forget that.

    -jdm

    • Re:Why ask in the first place? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by batkiwi ( 137781 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @06:34PM (#9884395)
      They didn't HAVE to. They did this in the same vein as getting a preliminary injunction, to avoid being sued.

      They had two options:

      -Do this, and now tv networks/etc have to sue the FCC to get the ruling changed

      -NOT do this, and have every tv network sue them once it goes live, and have it likely have to be disabled during the trial

      Which option is better for their customers, and more importantly, investors?
      • No, the broadcast flag says that it's illegal to sell unapproved equipment that records flagged content. So TiVo did have to ask for permission. And being compliant with the broadcast flag doesn't protect them from other kinds of lawsuits.

      • Granted they weren't bound by law to do this. Yet. But:

        • It's frightening that current law so heavily favors the content middlemen that TiVo felt it had to petition the FCC in the first place, and
        • What the FCC says is still no guarantee whatsoever that the MPAA, NFL, etc, won't sue TiVo later and succeed, especially if the Grokster/Morpheous case goes south, or if the INDUCE Act becomes law. In that respect, this is /nothing/ like a preliminary injunction.

        The best scenario for TiVo's customers is not

  • It doesn't mean anything... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anita Coney ( 648748 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @06:22PM (#9884292) Homepage
    The FCC also ruled that Bono could say "fuck" on TV. A few weeks after Ms. Jackson exposed her tit, the FCC changed its mind.

    The FCC WILL change its mind once networks start throwing their weight around. Heck, even the movie and music industries will get involved with this one. No copyright holder likes sharing without explict and paid permission.

  • Odd remarks (Score:5, Insightful)

    by abacsalmasi ( 643483 ) <.adam. .at. .stableresearch.com.> on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @06:39PM (#9884445) Homepage
    I'm sure all you Tivo lovers in the US are aware that we don't get it here in Canada, but one glaring omission is starrring me right in the eyes. If I take any TV and just plug it into a wall outlet and fire it up, I'll get free TV. Granted, it's not cable, but it's free. If I Tivo'd these shows, shouldn't I be able to distribut them to anyone else who's just bought a TV and plugged it in also? How would anybody lose money from this? Wouldn't I just be propogating the show itself and getting it to more users on their behalf? A D M
    • If your willing to put up with some hassle you can get Tivo's working in Canada.

      I am very hopeful I can take advantage of this new feature, I would like to be able to transfer programs between my Tivo, my parents and my girlfriend.

  • One last problem.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Powertrip ( 702807 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @06:50PM (#9884542) Homepage Journal
    ...We just have to find something worthwhile to record...

    Summertime TV stinks, especially without TechTv :)

  • DirecTV Tivo (Score:2, Informative)

    by BlindMellon ( 704132 )
    Not sure, but figure my Series 2 Tivo for direcTV is in the cold on this one. When I got word that Tivo was releasing the former "add on" network functions, I learned that my Tivo did not have the USB ports activated, and neither DirecTV nor Tivo had any word on plans to release "firmware" to activate them.

    DirecTV Tivo with 2 tuners rocks, but this might be the final straw to get me back on cable.

  • Nielsen Ratings (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bjb ( 3050 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @07:02AM (#9887480) Homepage Journal
    Lets try this approach: Sharing is fine. As long as the commercials and station calls are retained (i.e. ads for the station, or those little transparent logos in the bottom right corner) then I don't see why there should be much of a problem. I mean, if the broadcast of the show is effectively for free to the consumer's set (ad-revenue supported) then as long as the station IDs and commercials stay, whats the difference?

    The only thing that I can see being a serious issue is that of Nielsen ratings. If there is the chance that people are going to watch these shows after the fact and as such cannot be caught by the Nielsen rating system, then would this hurt the broadcaster?

    Just a thought...

  • As part of a settlement, ReplayTV removed this feature from its current 55xx series boxes. I wonder if they will be able to put it back? My ReplayTV model 5040 has always had this feature, but admittedly, I have never actually used it...

  • What am I missing? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jbarr ( 2233 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:04AM (#9888362) Homepage
    I don't see how this will really work. All the NFL would have to do is enable the broadcast flag, and TiVo, (I'm assuming they would be compliant) wouldn't allow transfer because of the Broadcast Flag. The industry would simply say, "Sure, implement all the sharing technology you want...as long as it's Broadcast Flag aware."

    • Re:What am I missing? (Score:3, Informative)

      by jgabby ( 158126 )
      By applying with the FCC, Tivo has gotten permission so that even when the broadcast flag is enabled, broadcast content can be transferred between all Tivos associated with the same account (up to 10). And the spectacular thing is that Tivo network can even be across the internet.

      But everyone has to be aware that the sharing can only happen between Tivos connected to the same account through a credit card. Unless you plan to pay for your friends Tivo subscriptions, you still can't transfer content to the

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