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Trouble for Tivo and NetFlix Partnership? 217

Posted by CmdrTaco from the to-good-to-be-true dept.
lucabrasi999 writes "Well, things may not not be as good for the potential joining up of Netflix and Tivo as once thought. Herb Greenberg, of CBS Marketwatch has a commentary which hints that this deal may not be as great as it once appeared. Why? In short, distribution rights. It appears that Netflix may not legally distribute all of the movies in it's library via Tivo. As a side note, Netflix may also be feeling some economic pressure. It now forces all cancellations occur by phone, making it more difficult to cancel because of a long hold time."
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Trouble for Tivo and NetFlix Partnership? More

Trouble for Tivo and NetFlix Partnership?

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  • Cancelation times (Score:3, Informative)

    by Therlin ( 126989 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @04:51PM (#10205772)
    When I called to cancel one of my units about two weeks ago, my hold time was approximately 4 minutes. That is not unreasonable.

    • Re:Cancelation times (Score:4, Informative)

      by AKAImBatman ( 238306 ) * <akaimbatman@gmaYEATSil.com minus poet> on Thursday September 09, 2004 @04:52PM (#10205787) Homepage Journal
      It's not Tivo that has the long hold times. It's NetFlix. From the summary:

      Netflix may also be feeling some economic pressure.

      Just an FYI.

      • Re:Cancelation times (Score:2, Insightful)

        by gphinch ( 722686 )
        Have you ever called Tivo tech support? I had 2 units (original and the first replacement) go bad on me, and the first time I was on hold for an hour and a half before I got a hold of someone and the second time for an hour.

    • Re:Cancelation times (Score:5, Informative)

      by quitcherbitchen ( 587409 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:03PM (#10205956)

      NetFlix doesn't require you to phone in cancellations. I cancelled my membership yesterday with just a few clicks. I've never been a member of another subscription service (especially one with a free trial) that made it this easy.

      You don't even have to have all of your movies in befor you cancel. Just return within 7 days. I highly recommend NetFlix to anyone willing to pay $23 per month for movies.

      • I emailed him about this and received in reply:

        Good catch. They changed it back since last week. Too bad the company won't
        take my calls! Wonder why they changed it back! Tell me that. Herb
    • yep, well they are talking about netflix but it sounds like Netflix might be the only one thats got it together enough to stay afloat.

      Games'n'Flix for example is a mess. My girlfriend and I setup an account and after atleast a month didn't even recieve so much as an email. And then found we coudn't log back in. We email there support multiple times asking for help and didn't get any response. She then decided, to send standard email threatening to cancel the account, something to the effect of I haven't

  • Uniform Consumer Code (Score:5, Informative)

    by stecoop ( 759508 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @04:52PM (#10205786) Journal
    Netflix now forces all cancellations occur by phone

    Could some inspiring Business Major retort the Uniform Consumer Rights for us? Off the top of my head, which will not be a good verbatim translation, it states that:

    A cancellation of an order must be accepted as in the method original ordered in or in a manner that is faster in speed. Meaning that if signed up electronically than they have to accept an electronic cancellation or any means that would be faster. Like if I signed up via mail than if they have a means of electronic cancellation than they have to accept that too all the while accepting the mail as a cancellation method.

    • Re:Uniform Consumer Code (Score:4, Informative)

      by AKAImBatman ( 238306 ) * <akaimbatman@gmaYEATSil.com minus poet> on Thursday September 09, 2004 @04:56PM (#10205844) Homepage Journal
      Do you mean the Uniform Commercial Code [wikipedia.org]?

    • AOL is the same way (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 09, 2004 @04:56PM (#10205846)
      Yes, I'd like to cancel

      Really, why?

      Don't want it.

      But have you seen our super new optimized enhanced keyword system?

      Yes, don't like it.

      What didn't you like?

      I just want to cancel.

      We're just trying to determine why you were unsatisfied

      Perhaps it's things like this that make me unsatisfied.

      What exactly do you not like about the cancellation process?

      JUST CANCEL ME!!!!!

      • Re:AOL is the same way (Score:5, Funny)

        by dasmegabyte ( 267018 ) <das@OHNOWHATSTHISdasmegabyte.org> on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:49PM (#10206449) Homepage Journal
        This is what you get when you outsource your cancellations department to a copy of Eliza [manifestation.com].

        Incidentally, the most fun cancellation experience I've ever had was when I tried to cancel my Discover card. The guy made me an offer which was, honestly, very good, and I would have gone with it had I not already consolidated all my debt onto a different card. I told him I wasn't interested. He asks "Why aren't you interested in getting a better deal?" I said, "Look, I agree with you that it's a better deal. But now you're trying to sell me on it, and in the process you're making me feel stupid. I'd rather not do business with a company that tries to make me feel stupid, I'm just an asshole like that." I was cancelled and off the phone in fifteen seconds.

        Nowadays, you just gotta be rude, man. It saves you a lot of hassle. Being polite to phone folks is playing right into their hands. Fuck it, you'll never see or hear this guy again, insult him and his entire worldview if it gets him off your phone a little quicker. The sanity you save might be your own.
        • I went through the same thing when I canceled my Discover card. They wouldn't stop badgering me about other deals and things. After a few minutes, I had to start being rude just to shut them up.

          Then, 2 years later, they sent me a new card, saying my old one expired. They never canceled it at all. Then when I called to cancel it again, they went through the same routine. I started yelling obscenely at the poor guy and finally he canceled my credit card.

      • Re:AOL is the same way (Score:5, Funny)

        by hazem ( 472289 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:50PM (#10206463) Journal
        I used to play a game called "cheerios" with my younger brother. I would sit on his stomach and hold his hands over his head - pinned to the floor.

        I would then say, "Do you like cheerios", hitting his sternum with my knuckle on each syllable.

        "NO" he might yell

        "Why Do You Not Like Cheer-E-Oos"?

        and so on, until I got bored with it. I had no idea I could apply this working for AOL!
      • Just tell them that it is too expensive for you this month and they will give you a free month or two. I got an extra 4 months tacked onto my free year of aol (with my new gateway pc) by doing that. Though, that might be because they figured that I was not much of an expense since I did not use them as my ISP...and I rarely signed onto the system.

      • Re:AOL is the same way (Score:2, Informative)

        by Hillman ( 137883 )
        I work in a call center(student job!) and we have to ask why the customer wants to cancel and offer two things before proceeding with the desactivation. I know it sucks and I hate doing it but please remain polite we're human too...

        Thank god, I'm not there for very long...

    • Tell this to AOL. I once made the mistake of using one of their free disks to get a dialup account to spend 5 minutes and check my Yahoo Mail. Signup was done on the computer, over the modem, in less then 60 seconds. To cancel, First, I tried to do it with their customer service online.... they gave me a telephone number to call. After 20 minutes of waiting, I got detailed instructions of a form I had to download, fill out, and fax or snail mail to them before they would terminate the account.
      • After hearing about the problems people had getting AOL to cancel their service, I came up with the theory of getting terminated for a ToS violation, on purpose. Never had the chance to actually test it though.

        (Yes, I'm sure I wasn't the only one to come up with that idea.)

      • Re:Uniform Consumer Code (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        There is a simpler way; Update your credit card to the wrong expiration date.. Lack of ability to charge your card will cause them to cancel automatically. :-)
    • It's hard to argue with certified mail. Once you send your official notice of cancellation, they could not legitimately charge you after that. I highly doubt any business has the right to demand that you jump through various hoops to cancel something, unless you specifically agreed to the provisions at the time of signup.
    • I didn't bother to look up the specific line the statute you're talking about but, ...

      The UCC is the baseline or "gap filler" for commercial contracts. It is what you get if you don't specify anything else. So, you can opt-out of the UCC's provisions anytime you want.

      I'd assume the Netflix contract opts you out of whatever part of the UCC they don't like. I also assume Netflix sets the contract in the jurisdiction it likes the most.

  • All Your Base Are Occur By Phone (Score:5, Funny)

    by stevemm81 ( 203868 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @04:52PM (#10205791) Homepage
    It now forces all cancellations occur by phone, making it more difficult to cancel because of a long hold time.

    Wish someone would force all submissions occur after proofreading...

  • Hmm. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by stratjakt ( 596332 )
    Not really all that interested in NetFlix or TiVo.

    Or iTunes.

    You all talk a good game about how much you hate the MPAA and RIAA, but when it comes right down to it, you're the ones lining up around the block for "innovative" new ways to give them some more money, aren't you?

    How much money have you given Apple and the RIAA for songs you already bought on CD, tape or LP?

    Suckas. Over the air radio and TV is still freeee as in look at all the money I didn't spend today.
    • How much money have you given Apple and the RIAA for songs you already bought on CD, tape or LP?

      Let's see.... Um, about $5.00 US, for the five songs I liked from a tape I bought twelve years ago that got eaten by my tape player. Still feeling all smug and self-righteuos?

      Why would I be buying songs from iTMS when I can ripp them to MP3 on my computer?

      And yes, broradcast radio and TV are "free" for the consumer to listen to, only they are not. They are paid for by advertising dollars. And those ads ar

      • Re:Hmm. (Score:3, Insightful)

        by stratjakt ( 596332 )
        That's $5 more than I gave 'em.

        Your 5 bucks will pay for what, about enough envelopes, letters, and stamps to send out about 10 more extortion threats?

        And they can keep their advertising revenue stream, I wont begrudge them that. They may have my eyes and ears, but they don't have my dollars. They don't have my attention, either.

        Radio isn't as bad as you think. There are still long commercial free blocks of music. Music is just background noise to me anyways, all the copyright tantrums and handwringi
        • sn't it odd that you pay a monthly fee, get the same amount of regular commercials on channels you pay extra for (like HBO), and ON TOP of that, they pop little ads up over the content you payed for?

          HBO is commercial free.

    • Re:Hmm. (Score:5, Funny)

      by Fishbone ( 115047 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:06PM (#10205978)
      Just a quick observation--you say you don't pay for TV, yet your sig is from a CABLE TV program. I can't decide whether to jack your credibility or call the cable office first.

    • Re:Hmm. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by garcia ( 6573 ) * on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:08PM (#10206017)
      Suckas. Over the air radio and TV is still freeee as in look at all the money I didn't spend today.

      You are watching ads like a motherfucker. I consider that a shackle myself. You are also watching 8 channels (that's as many as I could get w/the fucking rabbit ears I had for a year and a half before I went w/DirecTV) of snow/infomercials. Hell, two of the eight stations were shopping channels and one was a relgious network. Mmmm, five channels of snow.

      Fox and UPN were the only two channels to really come in. They are worth it for ME as I like the shows they carry.

      Tivo makes TV really fucking enjoyable. I'm up to 15 seaons passes. I don't even think about watching Live TV anymore unless my Tivo'd shit is all my fiance's stuff and then I am more likely to surf the net or do something outside.

      I won't even get into OTA Radio and what you put up w/RIAA bullshit there.
  • I've heard good things about NetFlix in general. Does anyone have experiance with any of the other "dvd by mail" clones, like Blockbuster, etc?

    • Re:Other Services (Score:5, Informative)

      by vondo ( 303621 ) * on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:00PM (#10205917)
      I was with Netflix for three years. When they changed my old, sweetheart deal ($28/six movies/month) to $35/five movies and Blockbuster came on the scene, I jumped ship. But, I just signed up for BB yesterday, so no real experience yet. So far, I can say the web site is not quite as slick, generally (not that Netflix was especially good) and the selection isn't quite as good either. (They are missing Futurama seaons 1&2 for some reason).

      With being gone for a while and a two week BB test period, I figured I can't lose. Also, I like the idea of two in-store coupons/month from BB. (It was always the selection that kept me with Netflix, not the pain of a local store.)

      • I've seen the ads on TV and don't understand it. For $2 more per month that I pay with NetFlix, I get 1 less movie, and their lower selection. Unless the coupons make up for it for you (not for me), I see no reason why I should dump NetFlix in favor of BB.

        As a side note, I've been on a bit of a tear again BB. In the last few months, they raised the price of videogame rentals from $4 to $6.50 (more than a 50% hike), added new releases for video games (so now some rentals are only 2 or 3 days instead of the

      • I did the opposite. I joined BB unlimited thingy and within about 6 months I'd seen every flick in the store that I wanted. I knew the employees and knew when to pop in to grab the new releases, but it got to the point where I was watching 1 movie a week because they didn't have anything I wanted.

        After that I went to netflix and I've seen a few hundred new movies with them and have more than 200 more in my queue.

        BB is ultra mainstream so don't look for anything indy or foregin. Also, the whole BB versi

    • Re:Other Services (Score:3, Interesting)

      by kamapuaa ( 555446 )
      I use Greencine [greencine.com], which generally has a better selection of foreign movies and cult films. It also has excellent customer service and several other user-friendly policies.

      Actually, Greencine already allows users to download movies to their computers. They certainly don't have the rights to most of their movies - mostly to certain indie and porn films. Considering how studios dragged their feet with licensing movies to DVD, I can't believe they'd be willing to license out a new medium to a single company

    • Re:Other Services (Score:2, Interesting)

      by evil crash ( 739354 )
      Tried Wal-Mart's dvd rental and Netflix at the same time. Wal-Mart's selection wasn't even half of Netflix, and the turn around time was long. Usually 2 day ship times each way. Netflix is much faster shipping.

  • Bummer for Netflix... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jmcmunn ( 307798 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @04:54PM (#10205822)

    I had Netflix for a few months earlier this year, I loved the service, and when I decided to cancel for financial reasons, it was very easy. I just hopped online, and clicked a link. Then they told me I had 7 days to return my three movies, and we were done.

    For this exact reason, I planned on signing up again in the near future. But if they are going down the road of AOL, where you can only cancel by phone, after long waits and pushy sales reps, I may just go try Blockbuster Online instead, and see how it fares.

    • I had Netflix for a few months earlier this year, I loved the service, and when I decided to cancel for financial reasons, it was very easy. I just hopped online, and clicked a link. Then they told me I had 7 days to return my three movies, and we were done.

      But wait! There IS an easier way! Go into your account, set some bogus financial information, and just wait. When your account requires a payment to stay active they will stop sending you movies if you send them back, and they don't even ask for yo

  • Distribution Rights? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by bludstone ( 103539 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @04:56PM (#10205840)
    Boy, I sure am glad that copyright laws have so encouraged the creation of this wonderful science.

    Oh wait...

    Nevermind :(
    • Boy, I sure am glad that copyright laws have so encouraged the creation of this wonderful science.

      I'm not sure I'd elevate Netflix to the level of "science" but try thinking this through a little further.

      The product that Netflix distributes exists because of copyright laws. If they were forced to make their money by renting whatever crap people would make for free (or create under the terms of whatever nerdly wheel reinvention you propose), what kind of financial shape would they be in?

  • Cancellation (Score:5, Informative)

    by ckswift ( 700993 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @04:56PM (#10205848)
    It now forces all cancellations occur by phone, making it more difficult to cancel because of a long hold time."

    As a Netflix subscriber, I have a "Cancel Your Membership" button on my account page...

    -Chris

    • Re:Cancellation (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Binestar ( 28861 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:01PM (#10205920) Homepage
      As a Netflix subscriber, I have a "Cancel Your Membership" button on my account page...

      As a netflix subscriber who can no longer afford the $23/mo for the service I have just cancelled my netflix account successfully in the My Account page.

      That said, it did offer a $3/mo discount on the next 6 months if I chose not to cancel instead. Might be worth it for people who can afford netflix.

    • Mod parent +1 RTFNetflixpage (Score:5, Informative)

      by PCM2 ( 4486 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:11PM (#10206049) Homepage
      He's right. You click on the "Your Account" link, which takes you to a page that lists your current rental status and tells you your current package, i.e. "Three At a Time Plan." Next to that are two links, one that says "Change" and another that says "Cancel." If you click "Cancel," the first bulletpoint on the next page reads, "Cancellation will be effective immediately." All you need to do is check the "I understand and agree" box and submit the form. Who told you that you needed to call by phone?
      • Who told you that you needed to call by phone?

        As the person that submitted the article, note that it is Hank Greenberg from CBS Marketwatch that made the claim. I was just reiterating something that Mr. Greenberg claimed. I haven't subscribed to Netflix in over a year.

        • Yet you were more than willing to fan the flames without actually checking the facts for yourself. Such is the way of the internet I suppose. Rather than placing blame, you should apologize and the article should be amended.

          • Actually, no. The main point of the article was that Tivo and Netflix isn't as great a combination as was originally thought. I just added Mr. Greenberg's comments as a side note on his opinion on Netflix in general. It is all of /. that focused on the phone call issue, when they ignored the main point of the article.

            I apologize for actually summarizing the article for the people that chose not to read it.

  • The end of Netflix is upon us (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MBraynard ( 653724 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @04:58PM (#10205884) Journal
    They are going to be beaten and beaten badly over the next six months due to several mis-steps and changes in the competition.

    1) Blockbuster is in the market. Same 3 movies at a time, same postage paid, ~$3 less a month plus coupons for two free movie rentals a month. BB has a larger library plus their instore stock.

    2) WalMart has also gotten into the game. Also cheaper than Netflix, I expect them to be the 'low cost' option by cutting their prices below BlockBusters.

    3) Netflix recently changed their price (increased it) while making postage free. The result is the join-and-forget customers who are a the best type of customer for them will now be prompted to cancel, leaving them with the habitual heavy renters who make the free postage an expensive decision.

    4) The clock is ticking against their entire business model as digital media delivery speeds accelerate.

    A positive sign is that they recognize #4 and were making an attempt to bridge the gap with Tivo. Unfortunately, it can probably be done better by TW and other cable providers.

    Still, I wish them the best of luck.

    • Re:The end of Netflix is upon us (Score:5, Informative)

      by The_Rippa ( 181699 ) * on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:07PM (#10205999)
      Not true...

      1. Netflix is actually a few bucks cheaper than Blockbuster and Blockbuster certainly doesn't have the same inventory.

      2. WalMart won't have the same selection either.

      3. Hasn't postage always been free?

      4. This is true.
      • 1. Netflix is actually a few bucks cheaper than Blockbuster and Blockbuster certainly doesn't have the same inventory.

        How's that? Netflix for the 3/month plan is $23, BB is $20. For my previous plan (5/mo.), NF was $35, I think, BB would be $30. But, with the 2 coupons/month at the local store, I'm actually shifting from Netflix's 5/mo. plan to the BB 3/mo. plan.

        • Firstly, its not 5/mo its 5 at the same time. I have that plan, and usually run about 23-28 movies per month, that would be impossible with blockbuster since they dont offer anything above a 3/time plan.

          Its also worth noting to those of us who havent been into a blockbuster recently that there instore selection sucks. bad. Plus they are still prone to the "all out" problem because there stock levels are screwed (500 copies of pirates of the carribean and only 4 of LOEG !!) and so on and so forth. I have
          • You are right about the at-a-time. I know that (did about 15/mo myself for a while) and just mis-spoke. Actually, Blockbuster offers 8 at a time for $40.

            There seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread with some people talking about Blockbuster's unlimited in-store plan and some of us talking about their (new) by-mail plan.

            I agree the selection isn't great, but I figure twice a month I can find something to rent at the store and can be spur of the moment instead of planning something. Since I have no id

      • more to it than price (Score:4, Interesting)

        by poptones ( 653660 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @06:15PM (#10206711) Journal
        I don't know where you live, but where I live there still is no cable tv, and the phone lines often run for miles through the country before they get to the phone router on the highway. The only hope here for broadband is low-band wireless, and we're still years away from that. Unless the government decides next year to subsidize wireless with a TVA-like plan through rural america, something tells me netflix has at least a decade or two of life left in their current business model.

        But I have noticed netflix is starting to slowdown in response time. My turnaround time with them is generally 1-2 days - sometimes it's just a few hours (get it in the mail, rip it to my hd, stuff it back in the post office box). For a while there I could get three new movies every week quite reliably, but now they've started playing games: I'm sure the movies don't take any longer to come and go, but instead of three days each way it's becoming four and five and even six days from the time I send in my movies until I see the next "arriving soon" notices in my email. At this rate I'm going from "about 12 movies a month" for $23 to maybe 9 and possibly as few as six. Given that I mostly rent foreign and old scifi releases (the 99 cent stuff at most stores) this is not a very good deal.

        I hate the long drive and the selection isn't nearly as good at the "local" (40 miles) movie gallery, but I can rent five movies there for five days for only about six bucks - and two disc sets don't count as two discs, but one rental. That's half the netflix rate just for the inconvenience of stopping off at the rental place twice a week.

        I hope to see wal-mart fire up the competition soon. Competition is a good thing :)

        • Netflix claims that 80% of their subscribers receive their DVDs with one day delivery [netflix.com]. This is as simple as putting distribution centers near large population centers.

          Here in So Cal, the center is in Orange County- between LA & San Diego. I always get my movies (here in SD) in one day. It would be cost prohibitive to make centers everywhere to guarantee one day delivery.

          I imagine Walmart and Blockbuster will mirror the Netflix model, and use centralized processing locations. I doubt you'll see servic

        • "For a while there I could get three new movies every week quite reliably, but now they've started playing games: I'm sure the movies don't take any longer to come and go, but instead of three days each way it's becoming four and five and even six days from the time I send in my movies until I see the next "arriving soon" notices in my email. At this rate I'm going from "about 12 movies a month" for $23 to maybe 9 and possibly as few as six."

          There is experimental evidence that suggests Netflix progressive [dreamhost.com]
        • But I have noticed netflix is starting to slowdown in response time. My turnaround time with them is generally 1-2 days...it's becoming four and five and even six days

          Maybe your postman has figured out what's in those red envelopes, and they're taking a short detour thru your postman's DVD player?

    • > BB has a larger library plus their instore stock.

      As a person who has used both Netflix's and BB's unlimited rental stuff, I have to disagree with this. My local BB is pretty big, and boasts about 3,000 different titles. Whereas Netflix has something along the lines of 25,000 diff titles.. couple that with the fact that when you rent with BB, you can only use that one BB store, whereas if your current Netflix doesn't have that glamourous BOllywood flick you desire to see so much (that BB doesn't even k

    • Read the fine print (Score:3, Informative)

      by eberry ( 84517 )
      I can't find it now, but Walmart's site specifically stated that you would be charged for any DVDs lost in the mail. Where as Netflix absorbs that cost.

      And as for Netflix, you can still cancel and restart your membership online.
    • WalMart has also gotten into the game.

      Wal-Mart sells "made for Wal-Mart" versions of movies and video games that cut out the "unnecessary" sex and violence (bastards)... essentially so nothing has more than an 14+ rating.

      Are the movies they have for rent the "un-cut" versions, or the Wal-Mart "santized" versions?

    • Re:The end of Netflix is upon us (Score:4, Informative)

      by fnord123 ( 748158 ) * on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:29PM (#10206239)
      I tried Blockbuster and Walmart over the last couple months and have had Netflix for over a year.

      Netflix has a closer warehouse to me, and more warehouses overall - this usually resulted in my getting a new movie every 3 days vs 5 for BB and 6 for Walmart. Advantage: Netflix

      When Netflix received a DVD (and sent me an email), they would send me a new one on the same day, every time. When Blockbuster and Walmart received a DVD (and sent me an email), they often would take another full day before sending out the next one. Walmart was the worse of the three. Advantege: Netflix

      The Netflix website is more user friendly imho. I don't have to login everytime ("save my act info" didn't work correctly on BB or Walmart with Firebird at least). In Netflix when I renumber a couple of movies at the end of my queue to 1 and 2, they show up as 1 and 2. In BB, they would show up as 1 and 3 (because the "new" 1 displaced the "old" 1 to 2, and the new "2" was relative to the the old "2" I guess). Netflix search functions where better as well. Advantge: Netflix.

      Netflix has a much broader library than either of the others. Lots of movies only found in Netflix. Advantage: Netflix

      Netflix has a much deeper library than either of the others. Lots of movies on my BB and Walmart list showed up as "long wait" etc. The same movies on Netflix where "available". Advantage: Netflix.

      Summary: I cancelled BB and WalMart and stuck with Netflix. The other two are also-rans at best.

      • en Netflix received a DVD (and sent me an email), they would send me a new one on the same day, every time. When Blockbuster and Walmart received a DVD (and sent me an email), they often would take another full day before sending out the next one. Walmart was the worse of the three. Advantege: Netflix

        This can change. It did with me.

        Every once in a while I'll send all my flicks back at the exact same time. If Netflix did ship out new movies the same day they received them (rare in and of itself), they

    • I know that some movies are toned down at block buster, like requiem for a dream has the ass to ass scene removed. I'd assume the same thing about wallmart.
    • On point three, postage has always been free to the customer, leaving Netflix to pay the bill due to the BRM envelopes they use. My wife and I always try and help them offset it a bit by stuffing 2 or 3 discs in the envelope at a time (we use the 5-out program).
    • Blockbuster is in the market. Same 3 movies at a time, same postage paid, ~$3 less a month plus coupons for two free movie rentals a month.

      Hollywood Video is also getting into the market. They now have a VIP service starting at $9.99 per month for the first three months, then going up to $14.99 per month. Three (3) movies out at once, but for only five days (i.e. there are still late fees). Brand new releases don't qualify. I think movies have to be available for rental for about a month before they q

  • hold the profits (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:00PM (#10205907) Homepage Journal
    Long hold times at profitable companies are balancing their books on your free labor. Customer service is a collaboration between customers and the service providers. It's impossible to predict exactly the number of callers in a given hour of business, so avoiding any holding by callers means having extra answerers available. Since most problems are handled within a script by otherwise untrained answerers, a surplus of answerers is a simple expense at an outsourced call center, standing by with multiple companies' scripts at the ready. When callers don't immediately get an answerer, that's revenue not spent on the call center. Without the call center expense, that's profit. The time we wait on hold is zero productivity labor time spent by the customer that is counted as profit by the nonanswering company.

  • I was kind of wondering... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by the_skywise ( 189793 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:01PM (#10205925)
    how NetFlix was going to be allowed to basically do P2P distribution of movies... even if it was completely secure and paid for. The Publishing houses (Disney, Paramount, Choam, Fox) go to great lengths to control their content viability. Especially Disney which cycles content in and out of the market to keep demand as high as possible. A download library like Netflix would take alot of that power to create market-hype out of the hands of the publishers.
    (Though I still think it's a cool idea and properly setup could work around those concerns...)
    • Here's a company that has peer-to-peer television network platform. See their press release [yahoo.com].
      • The software is worthless if the content owners will not allow it to be used. The idea of DRMed P2P is also questionable; will customers allow their bandwidth to be used for such systems?
    • If I remember correctly, rental houses pay a great deal more for their stock than you, the home viewer. And they're guaranteed to buy a certain high number of new releases at this higher price thanks to the ever-so-popular "In stock Guarantee" they offer their client. Even considering that these video rental houses sell their overstock cheaper than new movies to customers, the film production companies are still making out very well.

      "P2P" could be very lucrative for the publishing houses if they get thei

  • Netflix cancellations by phone (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:10PM (#10206031)
    The cancel-by-phone only rule must be pretty new, because I cancelled my Netflix subscription *yesterday* (9/8) using the web interface. Took all of two clicks.

  • I'll cancel my NetFlix... (Score:5, Funny)

    by javaxman ( 705658 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:10PM (#10206036) Journal
    at the same time I cancel my Tivo service.

    When they pry the remote out of my cold, dead hands.

    • Exactly !!!

      Tivo rocks. Netflix rocks. They rock because they provided a much needed service that allows people to manage their life without worrying about entertainment. Kudos to them.

      NOTE: I have no problem paying for stuff, its when I get gouged and/or told how to manage/use my product that I get annoyed.

  • Netflix is getting slow... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ARRRLovin ( 807926 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:10PM (#10206037)
    ...on purpose.

    If you ever get an email asking how long it took for you to get a specific movie, *never* under any circumstances tell them you received it early. They will stall shipment of future movies to make sure you're not getting more than they think you should get per month. They've been getting worse and worse about this.

    • Re:Netflix is getting slow... (Score:4, Informative)

      by koreth ( 409849 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @06:28PM (#10206858)
      Not my experience. I've been a Netflix subscriber since 1999 and, aside from the fact that they removed the "I've sent this movie back, send me the next one now" button, I haven't seen their turnaround time getting any better or worse over the last five years. If I put a movie in my mailbox on Monday morning, I nearly always have the next one in hand on Thursday or Friday.
    • Yup this is exactly what was happening to me as well being I am in the same state as them I get the movies next day.
      I answered all the emails and then notified them when service was getting slow that I was going to cancel, because they were using the information I provided to screw me, from 1 movie every 3-4 days to 1 movie every week. Rather than go back to shipping movies to me the way they used to and keeping me as a customer they gave me some BS email needless to say they have lost another customer.

    • Re:Netflix is getting slow... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by linuxlover ( 40375 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @08:24PM (#10207982) Homepage
      <b> Damn right! </b>
      <p>
      I have learned this lesson the hard way when I answered couple of 'survey' emails. I thought, 'Gee they really care about when I get the movie'. When ever I said I received them on the right date, then my movies will take 1 day extra to arrive.
      <p>
      I waited till the next survey and answered 'came a day late'. Movies have been prompt ever since. And I never bothered with the survey again.
    • I generally have 3 day turnaround.. Return the movie monday and have a new on wednesday. I don't know how they do it, but they do.

      I'm assuming its because they have distribution centers strategically located and that the postal service is well aware of the mail :)

  • Hold time? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jdavidb ( 449077 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:12PM (#10206061) Homepage Journal

    If they're billing my credit card, and I want to cancel, and they make me jump through unreasonable hoops, I just won't. My credit card company will happily take my call and my instructions that any charges from Netflix are fraudulent because I have notified them in writing or using any means I choose that I am no longer a subscriber to their service. Then if Netflix wants to make a big deal about it, I'll bet they'll take the call from my credit card company.

  • Cancel by phone? (Score:2, Informative)

    by beaverbrother ( 586749 )
    I was able to cancel netflix online just two days ago.

  • You are in charge of your money (Score:4, Interesting)

    by dgenr8 ( 9462 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:14PM (#10206075) Journal
    How to cancel, quick:

    Tell the first person you speak to that you are cancelling your service immediately, and that you have informed your credit card company to refuse all future charges. It's up to them whether they want to update their systems with the cancellation now, or spend 3 months trying to contact you in hopes that it was some kind of mistake, while you continue to use the service.

    • Better way: Go to the my account page and click "cancel membership".

      Not that I would ever do such a thing .... but it can be done. Easily.

      Makes me wonder if the article submiter owns blockbust or cable company stock .... what with all the FUD.

  • Where did the phone rule come from (Score:5, Insightful)

    by lightdarkness ( 791960 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:17PM (#10206109) Homepage Journal
    Right from netflix website... Can I cancel anytime?
    Absolutely. You can easily cancel your membership anytime, online, 24 hours a day. There are no cancellation fees. To avoid being charged after your trial, simply cancel your account before the trial ends.     No clue what that guy is talking about...

  • Actually, we'll know they are really failing. . . (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Sialagogue ( 246874 ) <sialagogue@NOSPam.gmail.com> on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:28PM (#10206219)

    . . .when they add porn to their lineup.

    No, seriously.

  • Problem with Tivo and Netflix (Score:5, Insightful)

    by hipsterdufus ( 42989 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @05:42PM (#10206387)
    1) Only s-video video output
    2) Only stereo audio output

    I rent movies because I can view them using the DVI output of my DVD player and the optical audio output to the 5.1 reciever. The Tivo is not quality audio or video capable, so I'd never use this service in the first place.
  • I never understood the "netflix" philosophy. With Walmart and Hastings offering used DVD's for $5-10 and Djangos offering used DVD's online with a HUGE selection, why would anyone pay $20+ a month to "borrow" movies. Just buy them and be done with it. It's as cheap as renting, and you build up a DVD library that you actually OWN.
    • Let's see. Sign up for Netflix's 40 dollars a month service. It allows you to have 8 DVDs at a time. On average you can get about 10 DVDs a week. That's 520 a year for only 92 cents per CD.

      Buy DVDFab for $40.

      Get some cheap blank DVDs from Newegg, currently about 42 cents a disc.

      About half of the movies can be copied without compression onto one disc. But even assuming you want all the bonus materials and use 2 discs for each movie. Your grand total comes to $1.86 per movie.

      So to answer your questio
      • I don't know about you, but a shelf covered with 520 DVDs in white boxes with the name written on them in black marker is not a very impressive or nice-looking DVD collection to me.
    • On the five discs at a time plan (about $35), I could get thirty movies a month. Just a little over a $1 a movie. Why would I pay four to nine times as much for a movie that I'm never going to watch again? Sure, if you only watch four or five movies a month or plan on watching the movie again, buying is just as effective as Netflix. However, most people who use Netflix do not just watch four or five movies a month.

  • Netflix novelty runs out quick (Score:3)

    by moankey ( 142715 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @06:43PM (#10207035)
    Unless you are the type of person that can watch a movie every other day it doesnt make sense.
    At first I thought great service.

    But after about a couple months you realize there arent that many movies you NEED to see. And if my local video store has the latest DVD's in stock, its 10 minutes away, and only costs me $2.00 a night thats actually a better deal. So instead of spending my 21.xx a month I am back to 4.00 a month.

    I suppose its good for those people that rent everything and rip and burn, similar to the people that used to tape every VHS rental they rented and never watched again as they amassed the wall of VHS tapes that no one could borrow because they were going to happen to watch the exact movie you wanted to borrow that night.
    • That would be true, to a degree. After a while I cut my service down to the lowest level because I stop watching so many movies. I can't watch a movie or two every day.

      Then I realized the great thing about NetFlix. TV. I am currently watching ALL of Stargate SG-1 (episode 19, on disc 5 of season 3 is playing right now, "Crystal Skull"). I've already watched ALL of Neon Genesis Evangelion, Bubblegum Crisis 2040, and various other random things. I got to see The Singing Detective (the miniseries from England

  • Reality check (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 09, 2004 @06:43PM (#10207038)
    1. When Netflix receives a disc, more often than not they ship the next disc the same day. Look at your queue page or read your e-mail. The date they sent the disc is right there. You can compare the date you got it with that date and know that that was the post office transit time. On occasion, they fill your order by shipping you a disc from another hub. When that happens, it takes an extra day, plus whatever extra time the postal service takes. They do this to shift inventory to match a demand shift. When it happens, your queue page keeps you informed.

    2. You can still cancel online. Any suggestions that you can't are nonsense.

    3. Negotiating rights will be part of any electronic distribution venture, regardless of what companies are involved. Everybody in the business knows this. Nobody would be proceeding with any ventures of this sort if they didn't have a plan for it.

    4. Your answer to a delivery survey does not affect your account in any way. Others have speculated that the rate at which you turn discs around has an effect, but see #1 above. They ask about delivery time so they can figure out when and where they need to open a new shipping hub.

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