Sony Japan to Abolish Copy Controlled CDs 251
Gridle writes "In a complete reversal of their policy and on the heels of Avex's partial cessation of copy protected CDs (translation), Sony Music Entertainment in Japan has announced that it will abolish its Label Gate CCCD format (translation) beginning in November 2004 and move back to normal CD-audio format discs for all future releases. Reasons cited are music users' increased consciousness about copyrights and maintenance of legality (conformity to the CD-audio format specification). In related news, Sony also released a slightly updated HD walkman (translation) due to pressure from the iPod, but because of hardware limitations the device still does not support MP3 playback."
Translation of Translation (Score:5, Funny)
"We really thought we could sneak this by most users, but it turns out they're more informaed than we thought. Damn you, independent media!"
Business (Score:5, Interesting)
This is just a simple decision to end a failing practice in the marketplace. Nothing more.
Re:Business (Score:5, Interesting)
This _may_, hopefully, mean that at some point in the future we may actually see a text reader tablet from them that will allow you to store your own stuff on it - in a standard format such as html - and not just lease content from them. At that point, I'd actually consider buying it.
Also... (Score:3, Insightful)
They just happened to have a stupid exec who made the choice of keeping it closed for so long... but just imagine the MDs were open from day one. I personally don't think there ever would have been an iPod. Or any other decent music player for that matter. And now that they have highMD, they would have been unbeatable.
But alas, no... Same as BetaMax I suppose.
Re:Business (Score:5, Informative)
I think it's because it shows one (or both) of two things.
Coming from a company so involved in the industry I see this as a good thing. If nothing else it's a pleasant change to the usual story of trying to prolong the failing practice at the expense of customer irritation.
Even if it is "a simple decision to end a failing practice" it would be a very welcome decision if more companies would realise that irritating your customers isn't going to increase sales.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Translation of Translation (Score:5, Funny)
"Capitalism actually works. I am shocked!"
So am I.
Re:Translation of Translation (Score:2)
Had to be said
Re:WHAT THE CRAPPY DEPENDS!! (Score:2)
(Cut to parade floats collapsing to reveal tanks; cut to Lenin's tomb where
his corpse rises)
Okay, time to go to bed. I had a mental picture in my head of the scene in Animal House where Belushi cuts the rope and the Cake float splits to reveal their car which sort of looks like a tank...
More on topic, it looks like the technology divisions of Sony are starting to feel the loss of profits caused by Sony Entertainment their buddies (i.e. RIAA/MPAA equivalent in Japan). This could get interesting -- pe
Re:Translation of Translation (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Translation of Translation (Score:3, Interesting)
Phillips SO saw this coming.... they sold polygram years ago (Their music business), then masively promoted CD burners, THEN issued warnings that CD protection fails to meet CD Audio requirements, adn demanded the removal of "CD Audio" labels on protected CD's.
They sell mucho car CD players, for exmpl...
I always wondered WTF Sony was thinking...
"/Dread"
Re:Translation of Translation (Score:3, Interesting)
Roxxor (Score:5, Funny)
Or at least, a colon and a close parenthesis.
Re:Roxxor (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Roxxor (Score:5, Insightful)
Keep your customers happy so you don't alienate them and make them go to the dark illegal copying side, then combat the problem of those that are ripping you off.
Re:Roxxor (Score:5, Insightful)
Now if only it was easier to buy a DVD disc without region encoding, I'd be happy. As a Brit living in Australia, I'm pretty hacked off with the hassle of playing UK bought DVDs in AU and vice versa. And I thought this was if-not-illegal-then-definitely-dodgy restraint of trade?
Re:Roxxor (Score:5, Informative)
The UK however I don't have a clue about. However if you can get a DVD player through customs send one home and change its power plug :)
Re:Roxxor (Score:5, Insightful)
1. can I get a region free DVD drive for my Dell laptops? no.
2. what about my compaq desktop? maybe.
3. shall I just replace the set-top player I've already bought? considering it.
I watch DVDs on my laptop(s) quite a bit, and it's my laptops I travel with, meaning I'd much rather have region-free there, where there's a more pressing need.
Re:Roxxor (Score:2)
Of course I would not suggest any measures that may violate the DCMA...
Pioneers with RPC1 firmware (Score:2)
Re:Roxxor (Score:5, Informative)
You can play DVD's from any region on any player if you use software with decss... like VLC and such. (Yes, it works under Windows too.)
Re:Roxxor (Score:2)
for anyone else reading and wondering, VLC is here [videolan.org], and I'll be testing it out tonight.
Re:Roxxor (Score:3, Informative)
Mplayer [mplayerhq.hu] uses it too, there is also a Windows version [mplayerhq.hu]
BTW, it is not libcss anymore, but libdvdcss.
Re:Roxxor (Score:5, Informative)
No, you can't. For about the last five years, DVD drives themselves have been enforcing region coding in firmware. Firmwares that do not enforce regioning are called RPC-1. Ones that do are called RPC-2. The only way to make a recent drive RPC-1 is with a hacked firmware, since the companies only release RPC-2.
The Firmware Page [rpc1.org] is one of the best sources for hacked RPC-1 firmware. But if no one has hacked up a new firmware for your drive, then there's no way around region coding regardless what software you're using.
Re:Roxxor (Score:5, Informative)
http://dvd.box.sk/index.php?pid=d_soft&prj=
http://regionhacks.datatestlab.
http://www.videohelp.com/dvdhacks
Enjoy your movies
Re:Roxxor (Score:2)
As an Aussie who moved to London I went through this hassle an age ago. If you had electronic gear then simply cut the plugs off the end and put an Aussi
Region unlocking (Score:3, Informative)
Possibly. Try having a look on The Firmware Page [rpc1.org] and seeing if there is a region-unlocked firmware for the drive in your Dell laptop. Your other alternative is to get hold of a program like DVD Region Free [dvdidle.com] which I believe will strip off the region coding (and other things) before it reaches your DVD player software.
Re:Roxxor (Score:2)
You might be able to set up a custom Knoppix boot disk or USB drive to act as a region-free DVD player on your laptop if you don't want to dual boot or delete Windows.
Re:Roxxor (Score:2)
The funny thing is that staff at shops that won't sell them (or refuse to tell you the remote code for unlockable players) try to claim that it's 'illegal' for them to do so. Which is strange as the
Re:Roxxor (Score:3, Insightful)
And don't forget DVD-A and SACD. Some of us want high rez music formats without the DRM crud attached. If they can pull it off CDs, they sure as hell can pull it off the struggling formats.
-- james
Re:Roxxor (Score:2)
Is the UK one of the only places where you can just walk into any shop and buy a region free player without any problems?
Re:Roxxor (Score:2, Insightful)
That's odd about the no MP3 playback. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:That's odd about the no MP3 playback. (Score:3, Informative)
The article only mentions ATRAC, but from the translation it's hard to tell whether ATRAC is the main format or the only format. This article [sony.com] on the larger model mentions mp3 support.
How you get sony firmware upgrade. (Score:5, Funny)
Step Two: There is no step two.
Re:That's odd about the no MP3 playback. (Score:4, Informative)
PSP supports MP3 (Score:2)
Re: Why release a non-MP3 capable player at all? (Score:2)
MP3 is defacto standard, and if I would buy a player, MP3, WAV, and OGG support is a must. Any other formats not so important. The market is pretty well covered with all sorts of players. Experience shows you can't count on firmware updates. If you want MP3 support, it has to be in there when you buy it. How many consumers would even consider a player that doesn't support THE audio format?
Re: Why release a non-MP3 capable player at all? (Score:3, Interesting)
It sucks.
This is one of the problem with proprietary DRMed formats - I need the software, the software sucks, and it's never been updated. So if this is some new software (I'll check out Sony's site) that works with my old player, I'll have to check it out. Right now my $300 "digital music" player sits unused because of those restrictions (for the record, I didn't pay for it - it was
Rock on! (Score:3, Insightful)
Hell... (Score:3, Funny)
I think that says it all...I guess that Satan will be wearing a coat tonight.
Re:Hell... (Score:2)
Good For Sony (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Good For Sony (Score:2)
You must live in the warm fuzzy part of the internet. Based on what I see, such as the continuing increase in usenet spool sizes, illegal sharing continues to gain popularity.
Ultimately, the "media" companies are going to have to come up with a new business model. Something that involves getting paid up front once and only once for their work. Digital copying is just too easy for any royalty ba
Captain to away team (Score:4, Funny)
DRM? (Score:4, Interesting)
Sony has been forced by the market... (Score:5, Insightful)
It was inevitable- "MP3 players" is the *name* of the categorty and the defining feature of compressed audio devices.
If you cannot rip a CD to mp3 its value to the consumer is lessened considerably and they will be more likely to turn to p2p alternatives. A losing proposition all around for Sony.
It may be too little too late- kind of sad as they could have owned they category if they had only been unhampered by their content divisions (and had some better human interface engineers for their software).
Re:Sony has been forced by the market... (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course it would make piracy a little easier, but they should know that pirates can rip/record any CD (even protected) in the blink of an eye. Only the poor non-technical fellow would truly benefit from that and it would make his life so much easier with is mp3 player.
Of course, this is all utopy as they would all release their compressed tracks in a different format, making is effectively useless.
Oh well...
Re:Sony has been forced by the market... (Score:3, Interesting)
Let's hope the outcome is the same in the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD field since Sony now owns TWO movie studios, it would be wonderful if blu-ray came to market with either no copy-prevention or something that was as ultimately half-assed as CSS is.
Somehow I think that internal battle is going to be a lot more bloody than the copy-prevented CD fight was.
Say Goodbye To Sales (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds pretty stupid to me... for many not-particularly-tech-savvy (NPTS) people, mp3 is still the compressed music format of choice, and these people will be most of Sony's market for this device.
NPTS Customer: Hey that looks cool, does it have mp3?
Salesman: No, but it has...
NPTS Customer: Ah we'll leave it - what else you got?/p?
Re:Say Goodbye To Sales (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Say Goodbye To Sales (Score:4, Interesting)
I'd go for an OGG-capable player, but I'd like it if it could also do MP3, simply because of inertia (I have quite a few mp3 tracks already and converting, while possible, isn't something I'd be bothered to do. And I'm a geek. imagine what Joe Sixpack would think.
Re:Say Goodbye To Sales (Score:2)
"Oh, I just have to convert these mp3 files, and I can use them on my new music player? Ok"
If Joe Sixpack can be brought to believe that rebooting their machine everytime there is a problem is acceptable and a normal process, then getting them to run some easy to use utility to convert their
Re:Say Goodbye To Sales (Score:2)
Re:Say Goodbye To Sales (Score:2, Interesting)
And you'll get this (Score:3, Funny)
NPTS customer: Huh?
Damn! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Damn! (Score:2)
Careful, there. If sufficient pressure is applied, you may scratch the disc.
A possible solution....? (Score:5, Interesting)
Labelgate? (Score:3, Funny)
In other words... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:In other words... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is what I get... (Score:5, Funny)
Just a thought (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Just a thought (Score:4, Interesting)
They'd have to if their discs could be returned for not working. I think this is a step to prevent that.
Don't worry, their "Open your mouth and close your eyes" business model will stay firmly in tact.
Yes! It's hard to teach a thick headed dino... (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm glad to see AVEX cutting back and Sony backing off completely. Hopefully this means I'll actually be able to get some soundtracks and Do As Infinity CDs without worrying about the discs being f*cked and horribly fragile.
Maybe Pony Canyon and a few other labels in Japan will follow their lead and stop shipping this crap on their CDs.
This could be bad though... I'd have no reason to not buy more stuff from them!
Re:Yes! It's hard to teach a thick headed dino... (Score:2)
That's my plan... New producers and distributers will come along if we all agree to wait for them.
good move (Score:5, Interesting)
In an industry where the corporations are suing their customers, there is PLENTY of room for large companies to take a new stance and embrace the now pissed off consumers. If you get in on that early enough in the game, as Sony appears to be doing, then people start rallying behind you against the companies who AREN'T taking that position.
All in all, its a very smart tactical move for Sony, and reading this has restored a sliver of the faith I once had in them.
Re:good move (Score:4, Interesting)
TBH I've not had that much of an issue with the minidisc drm, my biggest gripe with it was the fact that the software interface for transfering files etc sucked donkey balls and the device itself could not be used within windows as a portable Magneto Optical drive (which it is) for backing up/restoring stuff... But thats just me I guess (Yes you could transfer files to it within the software, but then the whole drm thing kicked in if for instance you changed motherboards or replaced the hard disk).
"In an industry where the corporations are suing their customers, there is PLENTY of room for large companies to take a new stance and embrace the now pissed off consumers. If you get in on that early enough in the game, as Sony appears to be doing, then people start rallying behind you against the companies who AREN'T taking that position."
Indeed and I couldn't agree more with your take on it or their new customer friendly stance. Its a change that has been much needed imho. I wonder how long the other big players will take to realise just how vunerable their tactics (By proxy using the RIAA) have left them to just this sort of move?
Re:good move (Score:2)
More importantly, I wonder who will be the last company left standing who DOESN'T adopt this. It will be fun watching the executives jump out of their corner office windows.
Re:good move (Score:4, Insightful)
I see this as history repeating itself. Provided the U.S. Congress can restrain itself from passing laws requiring anti-copying technology, then the market will naturally swing just as you said. It happened in the 80s with anti-copying tech on floppy disks. For a while, every disk had an anti-copying scheme on it. But eventually enough customers were irritated that companies just started shipping non-copy-protected disks again. It'll come around. The customer always wins in the end. Not only that, but the formats that Congress does lock down will simply be abandoned. See any DATs anywhere? Nope.
Re:good move (Score:2)
The Cluetrain Manifesto (Score:2, Funny)
What about the artists? (Score:3, Funny)
Slightly OT: Just a few years too late.. (Score:2, Interesting)
They vanished before I moved back to the States in 1994, though..
Now, 1999 rolls around and mp3 is all the rage.
The CDs in the rental shops were plain ol' audio CDs. No DRM, no copy-bit, no need for a Sharpie. None of that crap.
Interesting to at least see part of that past come full circle..
The real question is... (Score:3, Insightful)
I realize many bought discs despite these issues... but I've actually abstained for the mostpart these past few years.
Hardware limitations...? (Score:5, Interesting)
What kind of hardware are they running it on that isn't capable of decoding a 128kbit MP3 in real time (which is all most people want out of an MP3 player)? An 8MHz 8086?
I mean, seriously, I used to play MP3s on my old Pentium 100MHz, while doing other work with them... their hardware would have to be very limited to not be able to keep up with that.
Re:Hardware limitations...? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hardware limitations...? (Score:2)
Maybe just maybe (Score:4, Insightful)
pressure from the iPod? (Score:4, Insightful)
With businesses, pressure generally comes from companies with comparable marketshare... Ford might feel pressure from GM, Apple might feel pressure from Rio... Sony is so far out of the main music player game, that it is ludicrous to think they are feeling "pressure" from apple... that would be like saying Be was feeling pressure from Microsoft... This is just a result of Sony fatally mis-predicting the market.
Want a cd that plays music? (Score:2)
This smells a little bit like victory.
Sony Japan to abolish copy protected CDs... (Score:3, Interesting)
I was just being a bit utopic, but that's what they'd really like to do, isn't it?
Time for something new (Score:4, Interesting)
Not for being profiteering bastards, not for losing profits (What am I a moron?). No but for the fact that mp3 took off and it's NOT an open codec, Sony doesn't want to include it because if they do then it will be THE codec FOREVER.
And those nutbars at Fraunhaufer will be laughing their heads off.
Sony is part of the consortium that owns the patent on DVD ($1 per dvd player and a tiny fraction of each blank disk) which is increadibly lucrative, they also have their fingers in the next gen Blu-Ray pie.
But I still feel sorry when someone has to pay money so that others may share for free, hats off to Sony! May this journey to the dark side of copywrite law leave you enlightened.
laissez-faire in full force... (Score:2, Interesting)
Sony forcing such an action only brings to surface the impnending formalities of music copy righs...etc
Here they have done more to free music rights by making the first wrong move... and that is trying to bring to public's attention the restrictions. A bad move that backfired. Thank God.
ATRAC3 (Score:4, Interesting)
On another note (Score:5, Interesting)
Some examples:
* I bring back stacks of new movies unreleased in japan (back when LOTR:ROK was not in theatres yet), DVDs bought in china. Everyone is interested until the moment they realize it's pirated. "Oh it must be bad quality," or "ahh it's ok i'll just wait for the theatres." etc
* Japanese in piracy capitals doesn't browse the bootleg shops. At ALL.
(side note to above, they also pay full price for Luis Vuitton crap even when there are immitations for 1/100th of the price and absolutely no discernable difference). There are also no market for said immitation products in Japan.
* us foreigners are downloading movies off bittorrent that we can't get here, and we always get these looks of amazement like "oh you guys are pirating again!"
This is compared to pretty much all of my acquaintences in the US (including everyone who is not even considered "tech savvy") who downloads from kazaa or torrent or whatever. Why do you think the announcement is that they will simply end the copy-protect from Sony Japan, but not globally?
It's a moral problem, boys and girls.
Re:On another note (Score:4, Interesting)
The Japanese are traditionally very obedient, it is true, and there is very little market for counterfeit goods, but that doesn't extend to P2P on the Internet, because it feels that much more abstracted (and is totally free) - same as everywhere else.
iqu
Re:On another note (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:On another note (Score:2)
as for MD: as far as i know it's not a perfect digital copy, and people would individually rent and record instead of record off eachother. Besides sony licenses the MD and makes money off that plus the rental fees so the economy sort of works out.
Obligatory (Score:2, Funny)
It may not play mp3 (Score:2, Funny)
I like to think I played a small part in that (Score:3, Interesting)
I told her what she should do about it.
1) Return the CD
2) Voice her opinion to the record company
3) Tell all of her friends
Maybe I didn't make a HUGE difference but I still like to THINK I played a small part in that.
Now,what about games? (Score:3, Insightful)
I got a no CD crack for one, and I contacted tech support about the other two. Tech support's reply: You must play the game on a read-only drive! Neither one works on a CDRW! I find that amazing: They are totally willing to abandon everyone who only has a writable drive (which is almost every new computer these days).
Is piracy really that bad that this is worth doing? As far as I know, the pirates can get around it. They probably spent more money answering my tech support than they made off of the game (especially since I am going to give them hell for selling me a product that they know doesn't work, but don't mention it on the box).
Let me tell you about what copy protection does... (Score:3, Interesting)
Fast-forward to today: I get my Color Computers back from my parents house, and I hav
Re-release LabelGate titles? (Score:3, Interesting)
Chip H.
*applause* (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Rant / Rave (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Rant / Rave (Score:3, Informative)
>their proprietary ATRAC* audio format. What
>about all my mp3's?
Huh? It transparently converts mp3 to ATRAC3+ in import process, so average consumer only notices that it takes a bit long time to import mp3 tracks in their walkman. In other words, it can 'play' mp3, but not natively, from the beginning of the release of the product.
Re:Rant / Rave (Score:2)
The average consumer may also notice their mp3s now sound like crap, having been converted between lossy formats, and into ATRAC, that seems to come out the worst in quality in listening tests.
Maybe the average consumer won't care, maybe they will.