Hardly. Tivo has name recognition in the DVR market (so much so that many people don't know what a DVR is, but certainly know what a Tivo is). Tivo's been in the market for years and has a large installed userbase. Microsoft will have to fight hard to catch up to this. In my opinion, this is similar to Microsoft entering the console market with the XBox. The XBox sells decently in the US, but it can't compare to PS2 sales in any market. Why? Sony has name recognition and beat MS to market in the current generation of consoles. I think that MS is going to have a very difficult time unseating Tivo as the King of DVRs.
by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @04:49PM (#10769329)
Everyone who has a DVR (that I know) calls it TiVo, or says they'll "TiVo it" even though it's not a TiVo. They don't care where the product comes from, and that's Microsoft's entry point. They can take a loss on their product and beat out the competitors.
With a deal with Comcast that places their box directly into homes without the specter of competition, MS is a shoe in for a large percentage of homes if this is exclusive. If people have to pay extra for it, MS may not "win". Comcast does already have a DVR offering at the moment, after all.
The problem is the cable companies are bitches about this. They don't want to share profits with anybody - neither does Microsoft, really, for that matter. Tivo apparently tried to negotiate deals with cable companies to bundle Tivo systems built into cable boxes, but Tivo wanted too much money for software that the cablecos figured they could get Scientific Atlanta and the other shitty settop cable box manufacturers to clone for much cheaper.
Of course the result of such cheapness is that the packaged ca
OK, TiVo has a huge share in the DVR (or PVR, as my Cable company calls it) market, but didn't Netscape used to have like 92% of the browser market? Name recognition means crap when competing against Microsoft. Sorry, but unless TiVo partners up with cable box makers YESTERDAY, then they're done.
Hey TiVo, you need to call someone over at Motorola. I have a Motorola cable/PVR/HDTV box and it SUCKS. Bad. I've had TiVo for three years, and I love it. The Motorola box crashes all the time, the controls suck, the program guide sucks. Looks like it was programmed in the 80's.
You're a few years late on your predictions of Doom and Gloom. Would have been more believable a couple of years ago when MS launched their first version of UltimateTV (whatever it was called then). So far it hasn't exactly been a stunning success.
As for the new service? Well, from what I can tell every non TiVo/ReplayTV licensed DVR box put out by the cable companies has been woefully short on features. About the only thing cable DVRs have going for them are video on demand. I'm not exactly holding m
Comparing this to the browser wars is a little misleading, unless Comcast is giving out the MS box as the standard set top box. Microsoft was able to gain a large share of the browser market by bundling IE with windows, which Netscape just couldn't compete with. And eventually, people started to realize that IE wasn't necessarily the best option, which is why Firefox's share of the market is increasing even though users have to actively seek it out.
Part of TiVo's problem is that they are a subscription service. I got a PVR as part of my satellite setup, inluded in the base price. Cable companies are starting to do the same thing, and I've seen third-party PVRs for sale on a regular basis.
Why pay a monthly fee if you don't have to? Their business model is what will kill TiVo, not just Microsoft.
Microsoft will have to fight hard to catch up to this.
Why do they need to fight?
Wouldn't it be a lot easier to for them to buy TiVo outright? They could buy 100 companies of TiVo's size using petty cash!
And, just like hotmail service that originally ran fine on BSDying, they could slowly "upgrade" the TiVo users to MS-Whatever, once it's ported to PPC, once the call center's been warned about the fanatics calling in about how their 9th-Tee Ethernet card doesn't work anymore, etc.
This is Microsoft's second attempt to crack this market. The first one, Ultimate TV [microsoft.com] went nowhere. But the reports I've heard from Ultimate TV owners have been pretty positive. So Microsoft isn't exactly going into this from scratch.
The difference is that the cable company is packaging this. If I am a comcast digital customer and want to use my Tivo, I'm stuck with two incompatibal guides. I'm forced to have Tivo using an IR blaster of some sort to change the channel on my cable box. I'm forced to purchase a second cable box if I want to watch and record something at the same time. This service builds all that in. Plus it's cheaper. With this service there is no compelling reason for a comcast customer to get tivo.
The big daddy of them all: Aspirin -- still a trademark in Germany, but now held to be generic in the United States. And, of course, Xerox, which is rapidly becoming an unenforceable trademark here, too.
I haven't seen a BSOD on a TV either (although I have some pictures of some, at airports no less) but I have seen the prevue guide (when they were self-owned) meditate, as in a Guru Meditation. To think, if they had just bought (or warezed) GOMF they could have bypassed that problem entirely, one way or another. Having prevue guide crashed for several hours, blinking a rectangle at you, is kind of surreal, especially when you're practically the last Amigan in your town.
Come to Mexico City and watch Cablevision for a while, you can see the BSOD on their programming guide instead of the previews. This happens often, since they switched to "microsoft tv" and are starting to switch from everything they had to all-Microsoft for their infrastructure.
The satellite TV service Sky is about to do the same thing next year (it's owned by basically the same people). And DirecTV is closing shop in Mexico, so once again there is a monopoly here, this time on satellite TV. And Microsoft is in on it.
I'm not sure what was contained in various previous offerings, but currently HP has begun offering a home media center running Microsofts offering. It seems to be the DVR + everything but the kitchen sink.
Here is a link [hp.com] to the offering from HP. Seems a little expensive, but I haven't seen one in person to know exactly how powerful it is.
I've talked with friends about building a simple linux system to do all this and interface it with a home LAN, and we all agree that you could do it for a lot less t
There is nothing like seeing a Blue Screen of Death on a 50 inch plasma screen. And there's nothing like having the "URKEL32" teleworm wipe out your Simpsons recording collection.
Especially when after wiping out you simpsons it gives Nelson's "Ha Ha", and when it gets to your Star Trek collection it emit's Bone's "He's dead Jim."
My wife runs into them every couple of days. She's not running as an admin; and really why should regular old software (things such as Eudora) be able to crash the operating system anyway?
On the occasions I play a game on that box I haven't had any BSODs - but my real computing is on a Powerbook so the time on Windows is pretty limited.
If MS wants to have Windows Media Center infiltrate the living rooms of America, this is a logical step. It also follows that they want to get their DRM involved at this side of things, both for encoding saved shows, and if there are Windows Media decoders at the set-top, perhaps on the production/encoding side of the cable.
I wonder if they combine XBox2 with this? Think of it if you try to mod it you will without a doubt be breaking the law since you do not own it. Microsoft can offer. Pay per play video games to your set top and could introduce a windows ONLY broadband service using the Set top box as your cable modem. Say good buy to having more than on computer on the network without paying extra. I would love to see a P2P tivo like settop box. Some small cable company could setup all the settop boxes to act as one giant p2
Yes, but as you look at what battles they've given up on, and those new ones they're picking to fight on... it's about control of the standards. Trying to license out IETF protocols, get patented IP into the infrastructure, yet paying off Sun and Novell...
In a way, Sun was right... the network *is* the computer. High speed networking and the infiltration of digital signals everywhere in our lives change the game fundamentally... and Microsoft is looking at having everything that's connected to the networ
Why does it always seem that Microsft instead of trully being innovative ( ala apple) they always have to buy themselves into an existing market, then try to bull rush it with thier tremendous capital.
Why does it always seem that Microsft instead of trully being innovative ( ala apple) they always have to buy themselves into an existing market, then try to bull rush it with thier tremendous capital.
I'm as big an Apple Zealot as any. I drink my koolaid first thing every morning. However, I do prefer a discussion that relies on facts, not misperceptions.
Hmmm....
I wonder if it will include Binky, the Helpful Paperclip... "Hi Buddy, looks like you are watching Porn - do you want me to inform all people you know?
Press [YES] to confirm or [YES] to continue
Is there anyone who can offer genuine non-zealous commentary on Microsoft's MCE2005?
I'm currently running SageTV (http://www.sage.tv) for my PVR needs. Before that I was running MythTV which I really liked, however it was really flakey.
I wonder how MCE2005 compares to either or both of the two.
It's about using Internet distribution for video content instead of having to wait for your show to come on so you can TiVO it.
It's pretty expensive as a PVR. It's the best tivo I've seen as far as user interface, but it's not THAT much more usable.
Big problem at the moment is price. The system we're using for testing at work runs $2500. But we can expect the price will go down, just like DVD players, CD-Burners, etc.
And although I'm developing for the system, I'm an Apple zealot, not a Microsoft one.
I can't, but the guy(s) at Microsoft Monitor [microsoftmonitor.com] comment on it regularly. It's the blog for Joe Wilcox at Jupiter Research. Google search of their site [google.com].
With Microsoft TV Foundation Edition's new UI Customizer tool, you can make changes to the viewer's user interface, preview the changes, and then almost instantaneously publish them to the viewer's set-top box."
Gee, thanks Redmond, I was looking for an outside corporation to control my "experience" (there's that damned word again from the dot-com era). I like how they'll just have the vendor just make bulk changes then push them to my set-top box without asking me if I want an update or not. I suppose that's part of the agreement, though. Looks like another MS service I'll be ignoring.
My Tivo automatigically calls home and downloads updates and has been doing this since day one years ago. DirectTv has already changed the logo that used to say Philips Tivo to Direct TV. They've made updates to the UI which were (thankfully) an improvement. So what's new?
Wow, now there's a losing combination. Here in Chicago Comcast is long running corporate joke. Very poor service both in their TV and Cable modem divisions and a broadband network they can't seem to keep up for very long.
I switched to DirecTV w/ Tivo long ago and will probably give that up eventually as more shows become available on bitorrent. Considering I only watch perhaps three shows regularly, its overkill. Also, Rupert-Owned DirecTV with DirecTivo does have its downsides. [everythingisnt.com]
Then again, never underestimate the power of bundling services.
Comcast, who I also dislike, is the biggest cable service provider in the US. Just like Microsoft they have a bad reputation, and just like Microsoft they're dominant in the market.
I think TimeWarner + AOL turned out to be a bigger joke. But that's because they didn't capitalize on their partnership at all. They had a huge opportunity and they blew it.
Not that I worry much about Microsoft. I worry more about Comcast. They control more of my life, in the format in which I receive my home internet connection and cable television, than any other entity right now.
What if, in their infinite wisdom, that Comcast requires that you use a Windows box to take advantage of "special features" of their device that MS creates propriatarily? In simpler language, I am used to Microsoft making things that don't fully integrate with my Mac OS arrangement (and generally, I usually don't care since I have plenty of alternatives with my platform). However, Comcast loves to charge its customers for things they don't or can't use, and it's hard enough to know exactly how they are sticking it to me as it is.
On the plus side, they may be a company that I worry about, but my cable internet from Comcast is 2.5MBits and whomps my office connection easily.
MS-TechTV: First off, we don't need anyone mentioning G4 in it to imply a Macintosh connection. X-Play will now be known as XP. There will no longer be any mention of alternative operating systems on The ScreenSavers. The show, by the way, will be renamed to Dot-SCR. Martin Sargeant will change the show's name to MS-PowerPoint.
Game consoles other than the X-Box will not be recognized. There will be Halo 2 marathons, nothing else. Microsoft staff will be interviewing and studying Tallarico in order t
I have Comcast's current HDTV/PVR offering, and it pales in comparison to my series 1 standalone TiVO. To get a season pass, you search by title, and individually record each episode that shows up in the search results.
Just about everything you like about the TiVO ain't there yet for "Com-assed". The one big thing the box has going for it is direct firewire access to the current video stream including on demand content, hdtv, and stuff from the dvr library. Of course, once MS gets loaded on the box, you know they're going to lock it down.
Betcha Tivo has a patent on season passes. You know why they didn't use the familiar grid layout when it first came out? TV Guide had a patent on displaying and selecting shows in the grid format. Either tivo licensed it or it got thrown out of court for being too trivial (I'd check which but I can't really be bothered.)
One huge advantage Tivo has over anyone else entering the market is that since they were there first, they got all the patents. It will be difficult to make a commercial offering as user f
I just got it as well, and my first impression was that the people who designed it had not used any other DVR on the market, and are like "Tivo-what?" The UI has a lot to be desired, but I still use it for the ability to tape my shows.
That being said, they also "upgraded" me from my old AT&T plan to the new Comcast equivalent when they put in my DVR without telling me, which means I have to pay $8 more per month and I lost the STARZ package. So to get that back, I gotta pay another $10/month. So my
There used to be an ad for some kind of MSN TV device that could (gasp!) record two shows at once. Whatever hapened to that. It was called something like "MSN New TV" or something like that.
Microsoft was responsible for the software that runs on the Dish Network Dishplayer (7200-series). And they sucked at it too. The thing crashed constantly. At least now that Dish is responsible for the software directly, it works a little better, but they're still dealing with the horrible base that MS laid.
CatsCradle writes "The Seattle Times has an article about Microsoft's Foundation and their new partnership with Comcast to provide a TIVO like service."
Thanks for that link to the Microsoft homepage! I've been looking for that.
Perhaps the 900lb gorilla can force the "entertainment industry" into allowing such features as commercial-skip or other previously frowned upon features to become standard fare for Tivo-like devices?
Tivo has name, and proven track record. Microsoft has money and can buy name and track record.
That aside, competition is most aways a good thing it drives up inovation. The more brands availible the better off we are as consumers.
But look at other comcast products, G4, after the merger of G4 and techtv, they took one crapy network and one decent network(Techtv), and produced a crapy network.
Now i can use my comcast DVR to make sure i dont ever have to see a retarded G4 show again:)
Are you talking about TechTV turning into the "nothing but guys yammering about videogames, and oh, Screen Savers too!" network? The G4 stuck on the front of the name is particularly retro, as Apple has been rolling out faster G5's for quite some time now.
Knowning Microsofts take on DRM im sure this will be a brilliant advance on current PVRs: Won't let you skip adverts, will only let you record selected programs, will delete recordings after 3 days or less, won't let you give recordings to anyone else or take them off the unit, and will phone home to give your viewing habbits to the FBI for analysis in the War on Terror(r).
Microsoft + Echostar = DishPlayer Microsoft + DirecTV = Ultimate TV Microsoft + Comcast = ?
I actually owned a DishPlayer. The problems with it to me wern't horrible, but it did cause a class action lawsuit to be brought against Echostar. Their new PVRs never matched the features of the DishPlayer, but they at least were stable.
Tivo's stock price has dropped 4% from yesterday's close on the announcement and over 6% from earlier this week... People are in a state of panic and for good reason.
TiVo has been building up their Tivo to go services and working out rights management details with the NFL and other interested parties. They're also rumored to be including full Netflix movie download services in their next box.
Tivo has been network agnostic while the MS box is geared towards comcast customers. This gives MS both a leg up and a problem. The advantage is in being able to offer specific PPV/pay per download movie choices while keeping it under the cable company's control may be a weakness.
Also note that this is one cable company taking on the new box. Unless we start hearing that these boxes are also broadband web browsers and offer new features bundled in with comcast's cable modem or that other cable companies are joining on, Tivo is in good shape. They still have DirectTv and retail space that MS would have a while to catch up in.
My final thought is Microsoft's trump card. If they somehow manage to integrate control of the set top box into the OS (do I smell anti trust case?) they could very well be able to kill off Tivo.
According to the article you'll be able to "pause and rewind live television broadcasts" and record shows. There is no mention of any ability to fastforward or skip commericals. Thus it is highly unlikely that any such feature exists.
Tivo was a huge giant step forward for consumers, Microsoft's taking us a couple steps back.
According to the article you'll be able to "pause and rewind live television broadcasts" and record shows. There is no mention of any ability to fastforward or skip commericals. Thus it is highly unlikely that any such feature exists.
How do you propose to "fast forward" over live television?
If there were any issues with it not being able to fast forward over recorded commercials, somone at AVSForum would surely say something. Nobody has yet. [avsforum.com]
It's a hard concept to understand, so sit down, stop chewing any gum, and let me explain. Once you "pause" live TV it's no longer "live." For example, on my homebuilt PVR, after I'm done pausing I can skip forward until I catch up with "real-time" programming. I'll use this feature for sports. I'll pause and go rake some leaves. Come back and be able to skip boring parts (e.g., injuries or commercials) until I catch up again.
Furthermore, I pointed out all the alleged features of the device. And none
Putting Microsoft between you and your content seems like a mistake... even if the hardware is cheap. You have 233 day and counting [eff.org] to get your broadcast flag free capture cards.
TiVo needs to position themselves as the Google of DVRs and adopt the "Do No Evil" policy.
Here I was thinking I could make some quip about this new service recording and inserting additional ads into your recorded content, and tag a fast "5:Funny". Something like this:
"I hear Microsoft plan to go for an untapped market niche neglected by the TiVo. This new recorder records just the ads around the program, as well as inserting a few of its own."
Surefire positive moderation and reassurance for my meaningless existence centered around Slashdot karma right? Well, it seems the comedians at Microsoft have already stolen my thunder. From the Microsoft Foundation page...
Sell and secure HDTV homes. Promote offerings with targeted ads and recommendations. Insert ads and promotions... Control and customize your viewers' experience.
It seems that they have they thought of all my best gags and implemented them as actual features. Dammit. What a sad day when a monolithic company can spent thousands on marketing a product whose primary purpose is to deny a Slashdotter the simple pleasure of a two-line quip. *runs and cries*
They have a loyal following of users. TiVo will be smart enough to keep on reinventing themselves.
It's a heck of lot easier to set up a TiVo than a Windows Media Center.
With TiVo you can get someone on the line for Tech Support pretty quickly and toll-free.
For Microsoft...don't even get me started...
TiVo won't suffer from the need for constant security patches. Imagine how much hacking will go on with WIndows Media Centers vs. a TiVo?
Offered by Comcast or Microsoft, but a join effort between both these companies? Thats a recipe for a very bad product. Speaking of Comcast, last weekend I went down to stay at friend's in Philly. They did not set their newly arrived Comcast cable modem yet, so i offered to hook it up.
So with the three different cable modem providers I had in the past, you simply hook up the cable modem and go, but not Comcast. Once you open your browser for the first time, you are directed to some setup page. But the pa
This was a hanging breaking ball, right down the center of the plate. I could have knocked it out of the park. BSOD, tried it, ultimate, Media Edition, Green Screen, man, there were just so may easy +5 jokes. Alas, first post was not to be.
I love my standalone series 2 Tivo. I like the menu system, the ability to add additional storage, and the overall functionality. Sadly, Tivo will fall behind because it has committed too much time and too many resources to DirecTV. DirecTV will undoutably chew them up and spit them out at some point in favor of their own in-house developed DVR. DirecTV has no loyalties, including to its own customer base, with its record of extortion and threats for those customers who have shown interest in smartcard development. I wish very much that Tivo could survive without DirecTV, and focus its efforts elsewhere. Sadly, it doesn't look like Tivo is moving this direction.
First and foremost, Tivo has made no commitment to their customer base to offer a standalone or CableCard HD recorder. This is discouraging, at least... and it spells out the beginning of the end for this well-meaning company.
Secondly, when considering current digital cable content, the stream is sourced digitally, decoded to analog, and reencoded by Tivo. This result is less-than-optimal video quality. In fact, it's quite poor, even at the highest quality setting. I want higher quality recordings, even without consideration of HD.
So, I cannot record HD, do not have dual tuner support, and cannot access VOD content directly through Tivo. Even if Tivo WERE to develop an HD standlone record with CableCard support, it would be unable to access VOD and PPV content, based on CableCard specification.
Perhaps this isn't Tivo's fault. Maybe they did try to partner with cable providers and were beat out by a better MS offer. I want to give Tivo the benefit of the doubt here, but they are failing first on several other fronts which are only problems of Tivo itself.
What's wrong with "targeted" advertising? The last thing I want to see ads for are for things like tampons and cheap lite beer. If there are too many ads for a program in general, then I stop watching, but I don't see the problem with them showing me ads for things I might want to buy. Now, if the MS service is more pricey than regular CATV then I'd ignore it just on those grounds.
Timeshifting won't be an issue within a couple of years because everything will be going toward a Video-on-demand model where you can pay a small amount for a rental, or pay a little more to keep the content forever.
You'll also be able to transfer the content to other devices throughout your home and to portable devices.
There is one obvious drawback: we'll all be locked into Microsoft's solution.
But if it's a good solution, I'm not sure most of us will mind. I don't mind being locked into my Powerbook
Mmmm, secure HDTV. Don't want any of those pesky users exercizing their rights! Let's make sure that we can keep them from recording what you don't want them to. That way you can target them with even MORE advertising because they will be forced to watch what WE want them to watch.
Timeshifting be damned!
"Sell and Secure HDTV Homes" means "get people who use HDTV to use our cable system, and keep them from switching to satellite". This should be clear from the context, as the next sentance reads "Micros
Kinda like how the Shrek 2 DVD forces you to watch the previews before you can get to the menu.
I just got Shrek 2 and that got me really mad. I was hitting the menu button like a mad-man. I took the DVD and created a backup without CSS, region coding, macrovision or the ads, so Disney can kiss my @ss.
I'm about ready to drop my cable service just because there isn't jack sh*t on these days. It's cheaper to rent a few movies every weekend than deal with the freakin' cable company.
PVR != STB. While the two have essentially identical hardware, the two are still not the same thing. After all, computers are more than the sum of their hardware, just as we are - there's software there too:)
Tivo is likely to fail due to regulation. Microsoft is likely to succeed, if only by subsidizing it with office. The second-generation Xbox will be the test of whether they can succeed with a business model like Tivo's.
I eagerly await the day when I own a high enough quality projector with cheap en
"Uh, earth to Moshe. Our perspective on television has already changed dramatically over the past 3 to 5 years "
Dramatically? Try little at all. A few people have PVRs now, but it is still a small number. More and more people record onto DVD instead of tape, but that is just a change-of-medium. Some people are net-surfing instead of watching TV, but that is also a gradual change. Nothing dramatic here.
Goodbye Tivo (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Goodbye Tivo (Score:5, Insightful)
Name recognition is a liability here (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Name recognition is a liability here (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Goodbye Tivo (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Goodbye Tivo (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course the result of such cheapness is that the packaged ca
Re:Goodbye Tivo (Score:5, Insightful)
Hey TiVo, you need to call someone over at Motorola. I have a Motorola cable/PVR/HDTV box and it SUCKS. Bad. I've had TiVo for three years, and I love it. The Motorola box crashes all the time, the controls suck, the program guide sucks. Looks like it was programmed in the 80's.
Re:Goodbye Tivo (Score:3, Insightful)
End user: Why pay for Netscape when this IE thing is free!
*months later*
Netscape: We're free too now.
End user: Too late. I already have things setup the way I like.
Unless there's some severe price-breaks and bundling involved I wouldn't write off Tivo just yet.
Re:Goodbye Tivo (Score:2)
As for the new service? Well, from what I can tell every non TiVo/ReplayTV licensed DVR box put out by the cable companies has been woefully short on features. About the only thing cable DVRs have going for them are video on demand. I'm not exactly holding m
Re:Goodbye Tivo (Score:2)
Excellent comparison (Score:3, Interesting)
Why pay a monthly fee if you don't have to? Their business model is what will kill TiVo, not just Microsoft.
Re:Goodbye Tivo (Score:2)
Microsoft will have to fight hard to catch up to this.
Why do they need to fight?
Wouldn't it be a lot easier to for them to buy TiVo outright? They could buy 100 companies of TiVo's size using petty cash!
And, just like hotmail service that originally ran fine on BSDying, they could slowly "upgrade" the TiVo users to MS-Whatever, once it's ported to PPC, once the call center's been warned about the fanatics calling in about how their 9th-Tee Ethernet card doesn't work anymore, etc.
OK, nevermind.
Second try at a Microsoft PVR (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Second try at a Microsoft PVR (Score:3, Interesting)
I had a DishNetwork DishPlayer - it was the predecessor to Ultimate TV. Single tuner, crashed a lot, etc etc.
Re:Goodbye Tivo (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Goodbye Tivo (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Goodbye Tivo (Score:2)
This will be fun. (Score:5, Funny)
And there's also.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:This will be fun. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:This will be fun. (Score:2)
Re:This will be fun. (Score:4, Interesting)
Come to Mexico City and watch Cablevision for a while, you can see the BSOD on their programming guide instead of the previews. This happens often, since they switched to "microsoft tv" and are starting to switch from everything they had to all-Microsoft for their infrastructure.
The satellite TV service Sky is about to do the same thing next year (it's owned by basically the same people). And DirecTV is closing shop in Mexico, so once again there is a monopoly here, this time on satellite TV. And Microsoft is in on it.
Ultimate TV??? (Score:5, Informative)
Yup thought so [toddverbeek.com]
HP is trying it now (Score:2)
Here is a link [hp.com] to the offering from HP. Seems a little expensive, but I haven't seen one in person to know exactly how powerful it is.
I've talked with friends about building a simple linux system to do all this and interface it with a home LAN, and we all agree that you could do it for a lot less t
Foundation (Score:5, Funny)
</joke>
I thought it was called Ulitmate TV (Score:3, Funny)
Blue screen (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Blue screen (Score:2)
Eats, shoots, and leaves (Score:5, Funny)
One of the above words has correct use of the apostrophe. You decide which one!
Yo Tro (Score:2)
Re:Yo Tro: Re: Yo (To Tro) (Score:2)
Seriously? (Score:5, Informative)
Seriously? It was yesterday, during boot-up. I had to power it off. Thankfully, it did not blue-screen during the next boot.
Re:Blue screen (Score:2)
Re:Blue screen (Score:2)
Also it regularly goes to sleep and won't wake up. I have to restart the machine. This happens once a week or so.
I didn't have these kinds of problems when I was running windows 2000 on the same machine. On my machine windows XP is less stable then windows 2000.
That's probably because it's a year old Dell. Windows is very picky about hardware. It won't run properly on the vast ma
Re:Blue screen (Score:2)
On the occasions I play a game on that box I haven't had any BSODs - but my real computing is on a Powerbook so the time on Windows is pretty limited.
Blue screen fix (Score:5, Informative)
Yup, no more BSOD! Just random reboots instead. Good work team!
Seems like the natural stepping stone... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Seems like the natural stepping stone... (Score:3, Informative)
Not a huge Microsoft fan, but I'm developing a channel for this system, and I gotta tell you, it's pretty slick.
Re:Seems like the natural stepping stone... (Score:2)
I would love to see a P2P tivo like settop box. Some small cable company could setup all the settop boxes to act as one giant p2
Re:Seems like the natural stepping stone... (Score:3, Insightful)
In a way, Sun was right... the network *is* the computer. High speed networking and the infiltration of digital signals everywhere in our lives change the game fundamentally... and Microsoft is looking at having everything that's connected to the networ
This is good news (Score:5, Funny)
Re:This is good news (Score:2)
Well at least there aren't any commercials...
On the other hand... (Score:3, Insightful)
sad company culture (Score:2, Insightful)
Why does it always seem that Microsft instead of trully being innovative ( ala apple) they always have to buy themselves into an existing market, then try to bull rush it with thier tremendous capital.
Re:sad company culture (Score:2)
Apple [apple.com] has never [apple.com] bought its way [apple.com] into an existing markets [apple.com] ? (I'm sure there are other examples.)
I'm as big an Apple Zealot as any. I drink my koolaid first thing every morning. However, I do prefer a discussion that relies on facts, not misperceptions.
Will it include Binky, the Helpful Paperclip (Score:5, Funny)
I wonder if it will include Binky, the Helpful Paperclip...
"Hi Buddy, looks like you are watching Porn - do you want me to inform all people you know?
Press [YES] to confirm or [YES] to continue
Re:Will it include Binky, the Helpful Paperclip (Score:2)
MCE2005 vs. SageTV vs. MythTV? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm currently running SageTV (http://www.sage.tv) for my PVR needs. Before that I was running MythTV which I really liked, however it was really flakey.
I wonder how MCE2005 compares to either or both of the two.
TIA
Re:MCE2005 vs. SageTV vs. MythTV? (Score:2)
Re:MCE2005 vs. SageTV vs. MythTV? (Score:2)
I like it. The interface is pretty polished, and it can do anything I expect a PVR to do. I've written extensively about it over at www.byopvr.com. http://www.byopvr.com/Journal+index-jop-browse-mo d e-story-uid-525.html [byopvr.com]
From what I read BeyondTV is perhaps even more polished, but SageTV supports the hardware decoder of the PVR-350, which was important to me.
My gripes have been it's been challenging to set up, and displaying the user interface on the PVR-350 is problematic. (The PVR
MCE2005 is not about TIVO (Score:2)
It's pretty expensive as a PVR. It's the best tivo I've seen as far as user interface, but it's not THAT much more usable.
Big problem at the moment is price. The system we're using for testing at work runs $2500. But we can expect the price will go down, just like DVD players, CD-Burners, etc.
And although I'm developing for the system, I'm an Apple zealot, not a Microsoft one.
Re:MCE2005 vs. SageTV vs. MythTV? (Score:2)
Anandtech (Score:4, Informative)
"Control", eh (Score:5, Interesting)
With Microsoft TV Foundation Edition's new UI Customizer tool, you can make changes to the viewer's user interface, preview the changes, and then almost instantaneously publish them to the viewer's set-top box."
Gee, thanks Redmond, I was looking for an outside corporation to control my "experience" (there's that damned word again from the dot-com era). I like how they'll just have the vendor just make bulk changes then push them to my set-top box without asking me if I want an update or not. I suppose that's part of the agreement, though. Looks like another MS service I'll be ignoring.
Tivo already does this (Score:3, Informative)
Comcast + MS? (Score:5, Interesting)
I switched to DirecTV w/ Tivo long ago and will probably give that up eventually as more shows become available on bitorrent. Considering I only watch perhaps three shows regularly, its overkill. Also, Rupert-Owned DirecTV with DirecTivo does have its downsides. [everythingisnt.com]
Then again, never underestimate the power of bundling services.
Comcast (Score:3, Insightful)
I think TimeWarner + AOL turned out to be a bigger joke. But that's because they didn't capitalize on their partnership at all. They had a huge opportunity and they blew it.
Great. Just great. (Score:5, Interesting)
What if, in their infinite wisdom, that Comcast requires that you use a Windows box to take advantage of "special features" of their device that MS creates propriatarily? In simpler language, I am used to Microsoft making things that don't fully integrate with my Mac OS arrangement (and generally, I usually don't care since I have plenty of alternatives with my platform). However, Comcast loves to charge its customers for things they don't or can't use, and it's hard enough to know exactly how they are sticking it to me as it is.
On the plus side, they may be a company that I worry about, but my cable internet from Comcast is 2.5MBits and whomps my office connection easily.
Channel choices (Score:5, Funny)
MSNBC
MSCBS
MSABC
MSFOX
The History Channel (sample show: Microsoft invents the GUI with Windows 1.0)
EA-SPN. (the sports network where you get to watch guys play sports videogames)
Animal Planet. (featuring the microsoft mouse)
Lifetime (featuring details of how long the Microsoft EULA binds you)
MTV (featuring Ballmer Beach Dance Blast!)
Re:Channel choices (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Channel choices (Score:2, Insightful)
Game consoles other than the X-Box will not be recognized. There will be Halo 2 marathons, nothing else. Microsoft staff will be interviewing and studying Tallarico in order t
(just about) anything is an improvement for cc (Score:5, Informative)
Just about everything you like about the TiVO ain't there yet for "Com-assed". The one big thing the box has going for it is direct firewire access to the current video stream including on demand content, hdtv, and stuff from the dvr library. Of course, once MS gets loaded on the box, you know they're going to lock it down.
Re:(just about) anything is an improvement for cc (Score:2)
One huge advantage Tivo has over anyone else entering the market is that since they were there first, they got all the patents. It will be difficult to make a commercial offering as user f
Re:(just about) anything is an improvement for cc (Score:2)
That being said, they also "upgraded" me from my old AT&T plan to the new Comcast equivalent when they put in my DVR without telling me, which means I have to pay $8 more per month and I lost the STARZ package. So to get that back, I gotta pay another $10/month. So my
I thought they already did this (Score:2)
Re:I thought they already did this (Score:2)
Now, there is Media Center.
They tried this already (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't think TiVO has a thing to worry about.
-Todd
Awesome! (Score:5, Funny)
Thanks for that link to the Microsoft homepage! I've been looking for that.
Slashdot comes through again!!!
Maybe some good can come of it? (Score:2, Interesting)
Dlugar
Competition is good (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft has money and can buy name and track record.
That aside, competition is most aways a good thing it drives up inovation. The more brands availible the better off we are as consumers.
But look at other comcast products, G4, after the merger of G4 and techtv, they took one crapy network and one decent network(Techtv), and produced a crapy network.
Now i can use my comcast DVR to make sure i dont ever have to see a retarded G4 show again
The degradation of TechTV (Score:2)
DVR supports HDTV (Score:5, Interesting)
Check it out:
http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/dct6412.a
That's pretty good for $10/month.
Re:DVR supports HDTV (Score:2)
Im sure it will rock! (Score:2, Funny)
MythTV (Score:2)
Example MS TV BSOD: (Score:3, Funny)
WHAT_CHU_TALKIN_BOUT_WILLIS?
Please enjoy viewing this Gary Colman bitmap while the dump file is being created...
Three tries to get it right? (Score:3, Informative)
Microsoft + Echostar = DishPlayer
Microsoft + DirecTV = Ultimate TV
Microsoft + Comcast = ?
I actually owned a DishPlayer. The problems with it to me wern't horrible, but it did cause a class action lawsuit to be brought against Echostar. Their new PVRs never matched the features of the DishPlayer, but they at least were stable.
Thoughts in response (Score:4, Insightful)
Forget skipping commericals... (Score:3, Informative)
Tivo was a huge giant step forward for consumers, Microsoft's taking us a couple steps back.
Time Travel? Temporal Flux? Gimme a hint. (Score:2)
According to the article you'll be able to "pause and rewind live television broadcasts" and record shows. There is no mention of any ability to fastforward or skip commericals. Thus it is highly unlikely that any such feature exists.
How do you propose to "fast forward" over live television?
If there were any issues with it not being able to fast forward over recorded commercials, somone at AVSForum would surely say something. Nobody has yet. [avsforum.com]
Think BEFORE posting! (Score:2)
Furthermore, I pointed out all the alleged features of the device. And none
Lifetime subscription? (Score:2, Insightful)
Beware the Broadcast Flag (Score:5, Interesting)
TiVo needs to position themselves as the Google of DVRs and adopt the "Do No Evil" policy.
I've lost my thunder (Score:5, Funny)
"I hear Microsoft plan to go for an untapped market niche neglected by the TiVo. This new recorder records just the ads around the program, as well as inserting a few of its own."
Surefire positive moderation and reassurance for my meaningless existence centered around Slashdot karma right? Well, it seems the comedians at Microsoft have already stolen my thunder. From the Microsoft Foundation page...
Sell and secure HDTV homes.
Promote offerings with targeted ads and recommendations.
Insert ads and promotions...
Control and customize your viewers' experience.
It seems that they have they thought of all my best gags and implemented them as actual features. Dammit. What a sad day when a monolithic company can spent thousands on marketing a product whose primary purpose is to deny a Slashdotter the simple pleasure of a two-line quip. *runs and cries*
Improved cable line-up (Score:2)
TiVo will survive like Apple still survives (Score:2, Insightful)
i woulder steer clear of anything (Score:2)
So with the three different cable modem providers I had in the past, you simply hook up the cable modem and go, but not Comcast. Once you open your browser for the first time, you are directed to some setup page. But the pa
I should pay for a slash dot subscription (Score:2)
Screw This I'm setting up my GNURadio / MythTV Box (Score:2, Funny)
Any day now.
What they are keeping quiet about.... (Score:3, Funny)
Why I will switch from Tivo when this is available (Score:3, Interesting)
First and foremost, Tivo has made no commitment to their customer base to offer a standalone or CableCard HD recorder. This is discouraging, at least... and it spells out the beginning of the end for this well-meaning company.
Secondly, when considering current digital cable content, the stream is sourced digitally, decoded to analog, and reencoded by Tivo. This result is less-than-optimal video quality. In fact, it's quite poor, even at the highest quality setting. I want higher quality recordings, even without consideration of HD.
So, I cannot record HD, do not have dual tuner support, and cannot access VOD content directly through Tivo. Even if Tivo WERE to develop an HD standlone record with CableCard support, it would be unable to access VOD and PPV content, based on CableCard specification.
Perhaps this isn't Tivo's fault. Maybe they did try to partner with cable providers and were beat out by a better MS offer. I want to give Tivo the benefit of the doubt here, but they are failing first on several other fronts which are only problems of Tivo itself.
*tink-tink* (Score:3, Funny)
Hi! It looks like you're trying to watch friends. Would you like some assistance?
Re:Yay! (Score:2)
Re:Yay! (Score:2)
Re:Yay! (Score:3, Interesting)
You'll also be able to transfer the content to other devices throughout your home and to portable devices.
There is one obvious drawback: we'll all be locked into Microsoft's solution.
But if it's a good solution, I'm not sure most of us will mind. I don't mind being locked into my Powerbook
Re:Yay! (Score:3, Informative)
Mmmm, secure HDTV. Don't want any of those pesky users exercizing their rights! Let's make sure that we can keep them from recording what you don't want them to. That way you can target them with even MORE advertising because they will be forced to watch what WE want them to watch.
Timeshifting be damned!
"Sell and Secure HDTV Homes" means "get people who use HDTV to use our cable system, and keep them from switching to satellite". This should be clear from the context, as the next sentance reads "Micros
Re:Yay! (Score:2)
Re:Finally! (Score:2)
Re:Set top box? (Score:2)
Tivo is likely to fail due to regulation. Microsoft is likely to succeed, if only by subsidizing it with office. The second-generation Xbox will be the test of whether they can succeed with a business model like Tivo's.
I eagerly await the day when I own a high enough quality projector with cheap en
Nothing has changed (Score:2)
Dramatically? Try little at all. A few people have PVRs now, but it is still a small number. More and more people record onto DVD instead of tape, but that is just a change-of-medium. Some people are net-surfing instead of watching TV, but that is also a gradual change. Nothing dramatic here.