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Media (Apple) Media Businesses OS 9 Operating Systems Portables (Apple) Apple Hardware

Some iPod Fans Dump PCs For Macs 1036

dereklam writes "The popularity of the iPod could be boosting Macs' popularity as well. News.com reports that 6 percent of iPod users have made the switch from PCs to Macs. An additional 7 percent said they are planning to dump their old PC for an Apple machine, according to the survey." I wish the linked story had more details; it's not clear from the results mentioned whether there's a strong causal relationship here.
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Some iPod Fans Dump PCs For Macs

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  • by Trigun ( 685027 ) <evil@evilempi r e . a t h .cx> on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:17PM (#10910011)
    Personally, I choose my peripherals based on my OS/Hardware, not the other way around.
  • Yup. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by niko9 ( 315647 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:18PM (#10910022)
    I gues it was a smart move for the iPOd to work with Windows and Macs?

    Works great on my Linux box BTW. Whew. Good thing too, girlfriend would think I was giving her a line of poop trying to explai why she's got to get me a different gift.
  • Well... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by CdBee ( 742846 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:18PM (#10910028)
    Looks like that marketing plan paid off after all. I always suspected Microsoft was wrong when they thought that capturing the media player market was significant to overall market-share.

    I'd say I've been proved wrong.
  • Not for techs (Score:3, Insightful)

    by flibuste ( 523578 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:19PM (#10910032)
    The article clearly states that those people are not techs but "people with money". The switch to Apple seems an obvious choice if you can afford an expensive computer and you are neither a big techie or a hard-core gamer. I fail to see exactly where is the impact of the IPod here. Is that because it's the same "people with money" who can afford to buy one?

    Clearly the article lacks meaningful statistics

  • by InternationalCow ( 681980 ) <mauricevansteens ... m ['c.c' in gap]> on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:21PM (#10910063) Journal
    Well, if the peripheral is cool enough, the OS/hardware may not be that important. Ease of use and coolness factor count for a lot in the choice of gadget, you know. I do know for myself that the iApps (mostly iTunes these days, Picasa is quite good) are keeping me on the Mac. Although I wonder if the opposite happens: people who "defect" to Windows because iTunes/iPod also work with Windows and you can buy a hell of a lot more hardware four your dollar/euro in Intel/AMD land than in Applistan (example in point: my powerbook costs 3500 euro. I can buy a fully decked out Hypersonic EX7 for that amount of cash....). Anyone??
  • by dslknowitall ( 562532 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:22PM (#10910065)
    correlation is not causation...
  • Man bites dog (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Eevee ( 535658 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:23PM (#10910081)

    I kinda think that's the point of the story. People finding the iPod a sufficiently good reason to switch their OS is not a run of the mill event. How many people switch just because there's a neat new scanner out on the market? Or for a new printer? (Not counting high-end RIPs, of course, since they're pretty much stand-alone.)

  • by RayDude ( 798709 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:23PM (#10910083)
    It isn't the iPod's doing. Its OS X. Its GUI Rocks. I'd run it too if I could get it for x86 processors. The amazing thing is, now that Processors are fast enough for the average user, the raw power of the CPU is less important and the GUI matters more. That's why people are _contemplating_ Linux or switching to Mac.
  • by gilesjuk ( 604902 ) <giles.jones@zen.[ ]uk ['co.' in gap]> on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:25PM (#10910105)
    Thing is, if you bought an iPod it shows you're more inclined to buy well designed (visually) simple products.

    The fact that you bought an iPod and not some of the more feature rich players shows that you wanted something that did the job with little fuss. Macs do this too.
  • So sick of iPOD (Score:3, Insightful)

    by netsavior ( 627338 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:25PM (#10910119)
    ok lets settle this... the iPod is not the only way to listen to music, and the mac is not the only way to use an iPod. I wish most users could understand this. Of course I guess if you are going to drop the $10,000 to legitimatly fill your iPod you might as well also throw in a $4,000 computer to go with it.
  • by antifoidulus ( 807088 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:26PM (#10910130) Homepage Journal
    Ya, maybe if you would stop maligning them for a second and actually think about what people other than yourself look for in a computer, maybe you would see why. You may not like Macs, thats fine, but guess what, you are not the ultimate authority when it comes to what people should like. Different people have different tastes. Oh, and as for overpriced, maybe you should look at an iBook sometime. They are very competitive with the rough equivalent of the pc notebook, so much so that a lot of people buy iBooks and put Linux on there(I can tell you are a Linux fan by your sig)
    You are partially correct, it's flamebait, but it's not true.
    Grow up.
  • Re:Not for techs (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Shisha ( 145964 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:28PM (#10910159) Homepage
    Indeed and "without data, all you are is just another person with an opinion."

    Go on Slashdot crowd, none of you have the data, but I'm sure you all have an opinion.
  • by matth1jd ( 823437 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:28PM (#10910161)
    Now of course I know correlation != causation but I had this thought.

    I'd imagine a small percentage (say 10%) of iPod users probably bought the most expensive model at the time be it the large 40GB iPod or the new iPod Photo. Whereas most of us don't have the money to drop on the latest and greatest iPod this group could purchase 1 or more if they so desired.

    As another post pointed out it's probably people in this group (fat wallets) who are making the switch. "I can afford the $500 dollar iPod might as well as get the computer that goes along with it". So there's your 6%.

    Personally I'm too entrenched in my Windows box, and I can't afford an iPod let alone a whole computer from Apple. Anyone want to get me an early Christmas Gift? Heck a belated gift if it's an iPod :)

  • Re:Odd correlation (Score:2, Insightful)

    by TheKidWho ( 705796 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:28PM (#10910166)
    Because if you remember, there used to be a pretty big stigma against macs. People would go "Macs suck!!" without even researching anything about them. Hell, I even did it to and now I love my ibook. What the iPod has done though is increase awareness among the consumer that Apple products aren't that bad and that they are actually very good. Because of that more people have become curious of macs. -jadam
  • by slash-tard ( 689130 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:28PM (#10910168)
    I get the point but a lot of peripherals work better on a Mac. The iPod syncs better, importing and editing video is easier, and if you want to use iPhoto its a lot smoother than anything Ive seen on a PC. On top of this bluetooth and iSync.

    The x86 PC has more options and cheaper options but I would rather have something work better than it be a few bucks cheaper and be a hassle in the long run.
  • Re:So sick of iPOD (Score:5, Insightful)

    by saddino ( 183491 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:28PM (#10910169)
    Of course I guess if you are going to drop the $10,000 to legitimatly fill your iPod

    ok lets settle this...purchasing music from iTMS or "stealing" music from P2P is not the only way to fill an iPod. Of course, my CD collection might be a tad larger than yours.
  • by XxtraLarGe ( 551297 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:31PM (#10910202) Journal
    200 is a decent sample size for a survey. Most political polls range from 600-1000, and that's for the entire country. What would be more important to find out is if these people were solicited for their responses, or if they volunteered them.
  • by cbiagini ( 728046 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:32PM (#10910219)
    You're missing the point.

    The iPod is just bringing Apple into the public eye; the computers are selling themselves.
  • Re:Not for techs (Score:2, Insightful)

    by the_2nd_coming ( 444906 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:32PM (#10910224) Homepage
    yeah because 799 is SOOOO expensive.
  • Re:Odd correlation (Score:3, Insightful)

    by iJed ( 594606 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:34PM (#10910241) Homepage

    Maybe I'm not looking at this deep enough, but what does a piece of hardware for playing MP3s have to do with personal computers?

    I'd say it comes down to integration. Yes an iPod works with Windows, and using iTunes no less. On the Mac, however, the experience is very different: iTunes is only a single part of the puzzle. Every one of the iApps, from GarageBand to iMovie, integrate together to make doing any of their tasks hugely easier. It is this that makes using the iPod on the Mac a far nicer experience than it is on Windows.

  • Re:Not for techs (Score:5, Insightful)

    by revscat ( 35618 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:35PM (#10910269) Journal

    The switch to Apple seems an obvious choice if you can afford an expensive computer and you are neither a big techie or a hard-core gamer.

    Gamer I'll give you, but hard core techie? No, don't think so. If you are are a techie the Mac opens up world's of *nix possibilities to you, and if and when you get tired of dinking with X Windows, etc, you have a great GUI for use.

    But I personally use my Mac as a fileserver from which I serve video to our other systems (one iBook and an older PC), have a webdav server which we use to consolidate and share calendars, and the UW imapd server setup just for the hell of it.

    And now that I think about it, even if you do mean "hardware techie", you can still get your jollies that way, too. When I switched to the Mac I hooked up and successfully mounted the NTFS drive from my old system and was able to get all my old crap off of that. (Can't write to NTFS, but you can read from it.)

    No, the Mac satisfies my tinkering desires quite nicely, thanks.

  • by zaren ( 204877 ) <holdthis@mail.com> on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:36PM (#10910282) Homepage Journal
    ...if only I could afford to. $1500 for an iBook is a tad steep when you can get a P.O.S. HP or Dell laptop for $700, tops

    ?!? You'd settle for a (in your own words) P.O.S. Winbox when for $300 more you can get a "P.O.S." iBook? The top of the line 1.33 Ghz (with CD-RW/DVD-R) 14 inch iBook is $1499, while the 12 inch 1.2 Ghz iBooks are listed at the Apple Store [apple.com] new for $999 (with free shipping), or you can hit their "Special Deals" section and get a refurb 12 inch 1 Ghz iBook for $799... or a refurb 1.25 Ghz eMac for $649 .
  • Re:Not for techs (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Refrag ( 145266 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:39PM (#10910328) Homepage
    I think the point you tried to make is obvious. Technically minded people are switching to Macintosh because of OS X. However, it is significant that non-technical people have been prompted to switch because of the Ipod.
  • I switched. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RatBastard ( 949 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:40PM (#10910339) Homepage
    I switched from PC to Mac after I got my iPod. The iPod wasn't the main reason I switched, but it was the final argument. I was tired of all of the viruses, exploits, etc.. on Windows, as well as all of the other crap Windows users put up with every day. My switch to Mac had been slowly brewing from the day Mac OS X first came out.

    And yes, I did try Linux, but I always wound up at the same point after installing it: "Ok, now what?" and never having an answer to that question.
  • by Fulcrum of Evil ( 560260 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:41PM (#10910363)

    you can buy a hell of a lot more hardware four your dollar/euro in Intel/AMD land

    For $2500, you can get a very nice G5 PowerMac running OSX. You can pay less for a Dell (corporate versions only, please), but the G5 will likely last longer, and the OS will be less screwed up after 2 years. Hardware has gotten to a point where good enough is comparatively cheap, but software is still a large differentiator - my next computer will be a G5.

  • by Gleef ( 86 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:45PM (#10910400) Homepage
    I think it's less a choice to go to a mac because they have an iPod, but more the whole iPod thing gets them going into the Apple Store, or the Apple Website.

    While they're there, they notice the other nifty things (like computers), and get pleasantly surprised by the price and/or cool factor and/or features. And then they think about switching.

    Personally I'm happy running my Linux on my frankenstein's monsters, but having been in an Apple Store I can see the appeal.
  • Re:Not for techs (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jedidiah ( 1196 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:45PM (#10910404) Homepage
    Except this isn't at all true.

    Even if it were, PCs have the advantage of being able to tune the hardware features to individual requirements. Expensive components that may only collect dust can be dispensed with.

    Plus you can shuffle around things so that you get even BETTER components for those things that really matter too you while still being cheaper than Apple.
  • Re:Well... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sleepingsquirrel ( 587025 ) <{gro.lerriuqsgni ... {zlohhcuB.gerG}> on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:48PM (#10910451) Homepage Journal
    I notice that the article doesn't mention any people converting from apple to microsoft. Is this number zero? Or just not reported? Does nobody ever switch away from apple? If 6% of OSX users switch to XP because itunes is available on win32, the situation is pretty much a wash.
  • Re:Not for techs (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:50PM (#10910475)
    Yes, this is true and it's been beaten to death. I agree with you. But we (in the US) live in a Wal-Mart nation. People will buy the shittiest piece of shit imaginable just to save a few bucks. That will never change, so your argument is meaningless.
  • Re:One Right Here (Score:2, Insightful)

    by x.Draino.x ( 693782 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:52PM (#10910497)
    I'm a switcher too.. couple months ago I was about to build a new box.. last minute I walked into an Apple store and bought a 12" Powerbook. Liked it so much I sold my Dell laptop and bought my wife a 12" iBook. A month later an iPod.. I'm addicted. Everything just works. I still have my Unix, and an awesome GUI.. what more can you ask for? People don't realize that it's not just the eye candy. OS X has the best features. period. I can drag and drop text from anywhere onto anywhere, same with pictures. Spell checking is used throughout almost every application. And a lot of applications integrate with others, like iCal, etc.
  • Re:So sick of iPOD (Score:4, Insightful)

    by RatBastard ( 949 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:53PM (#10910512) Homepage
    Of course I guess if you are going to drop the $10,000 to legitimatly fill your iPod

    And then there are those of us who have 500+ CDs sitting in our media center shelves. After a decade or two you can build up a large music collection. Not every iPod user is 17 years old.

  • Repeat after me: (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Resident Geek ( 16074 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @01:53PM (#10910514) Homepage
    Correlation is not causation.

    It's just as plausible that sunspot frequency affects stock prices or hem lines.

    Jeez, people, think a little more critically. Now, granted, brand quality may be a factor in these users' decisions. But it's a far leap to then suggest that it's the cause.

  • by ickoonite ( 639305 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @02:00PM (#10910581) Homepage
    I am not normally this brusque, but I think the occasion so merits. Are you misinformed or simply incredibly stupid?

    I simply cannot understand how all iTunes (a free download) users could be iPod users (an expensive peripheral). Given that iTunes is bundled with the iPod rather than vice versa, and that unless you are particularly political in your choice of OS, the iPod as-good-as requires iTunes as its computer-to-peripheral interface, how can iPod > iTunes?

    Further, you seem to suggest that iTunes requires you to buy all the music stored therein. I am worried that their are people reading this site who are this uninformed. My iTunes Library is full of >20Gb worth of MP3s, mostly ripped from CDs - I have one iTunes Music Store-bought AAC file. Therefore those who "choose not to pay fees to download music" (i.e. those who download MP3s) will find iTunes an excellent interface for their "borrowed" collection.

    Sorry for the tone, but sometimes...

    iqu :@
  • Dog pees on man. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Charcharodon ( 611187 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @02:01PM (#10910595)
    Yeah but people are stupid.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @02:04PM (#10910627)
    Can't really convince people to buy more stuff from you unless you've sold them one thing first...
  • by generic-man ( 33649 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @02:06PM (#10910650) Homepage Journal
    Have you seen the iRiver's remote? It has a separate backlit LCD that shows you the track that's playing, time, etc. You can even navigate the menus through the remote. It's very useful if you're in a confined space.

    The iPod's remote, by contrast, costs $40 and has six buttons and no display. I wouldn't consider it in the same league.
  • by hendridm ( 302246 ) * on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @02:07PM (#10910668) Homepage
    Personally, I choose my peripherals based on my OS/Hardware, not the other way around.

    Hard to say. I think it has more to do with brand recognition than the desire to buy a computer that more "natively" supports your iPod. Because their purchase of the iPod has increased their brand recognition of Apple and also made them think, "Hey, this Apple company makes some cool stuff. If their computers are half as cool as this, it's sure to be pretty swell."

    It doesn't really matter what OS/hardware the average person uses to surf the 'net and check e-mail. The user interface and experience may be more useful to these people, something that Apple is good at.

  • Re:Not for techs (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @02:23PM (#10910833)
    > What does it leave?

    Quartz and Quicktime, mostly. But Steve has nothing against the underlying technology, he simply derides the "some assembly required" philosophy of Linux, describing that requirement as a good deal more than just "some". You must admit, Apple has done a heck of a good job on assembling things into a very consistent and usable package. Frankly, I think KDE has as well, but it has far more rough patches that they just don't have the resources to iron out (as well a few places where they just don't even try very hard to do so).
  • by Warlock7 ( 531656 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @02:24PM (#10910846)
    Only problem is 5.
    They're not priced higher than most competitors with comparable features and capabilities.

    They're perceived to be priced higher because they don't offer a low-end (POS) to match up against the competition that are driven by the low-end market that those other manufacturers pander to. On top of that, there is no other company that offers the ease-of-use, integration, stability and security that Apple can offer out of the box.

    Before the flaming starts, I don't care about what you can scrape together in your home from scouring the universe for inexpensive components because you don't include the value of your own time for those projects, if you did then your "built it myself" boxes are far more expensive than any other machine out there. This is about features and hardware by valid retail/internet manufacturers.
  • by iamacat ( 583406 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @02:26PM (#10910872)
    So? You chose a top-of-the line professional model. Current Intel 17' notebooks are also >2K (PowerBook is $2700 in US). Otherwise you can "make do" with an $1300 14' iBook. Actually my friend is looking for an Intel notebook with comparible price and features. Here is what he wants:

    • Reasonable weight. No 8 pound monsters, please
    • 3D graphics, TV output
    • Built in wireless and CD burner
    • 5 or more hours battery life without swapping
    • Pleasent, big keys on the keyboard
    • No sharp edges or breakable components on the outside when folded
    • A sturdy case in some color other than black or "Windows XP Space theme". Please no Dell black plastic"

    So where is the superior, cheap Intel hardware?
  • by ZorinLynx ( 31751 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @02:29PM (#10910897) Homepage
    Don't be so sure he's an idiot... When you can't decide among several choices, because they're all good cars, sometimes little things like a 6-disc CD changer or XM radio can be the hair that balances the scale toward a particular model.

    I know if I drove two cars with similar handling, price, and appealing appearence, the presence of something like an in-dash MP3 player or GPS navigation system would seal the choice. }:)

  • by EvilTwinSkippy ( 112490 ) <yodaNO@SPAMetoyoc.com> on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @02:34PM (#10910951) Homepage Journal
    I think the very fact that Apple is still in business, AND selling non-x86 computers running their own proprietary OS is success enough. Think about how many other computer companies have either died out or capitulated to the Wintel camp.

    They don't have to put anyone out of business. They just have to sell a few million machines a year. Comparing Apple to most other computer companies is like comparing a Diamler/Benz to a GM. People by other brands because they need a car. People by a Benz because they want a Benz.

  • by Cloud K ( 125581 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @02:35PM (#10910963)
    I had always thought that Mac users were a rabid, elitist group

    I'm glad you've seen the truth :) I thought similar until about 6 months ago when I bought an iPod. The sheer quality and superb design work... when I look at it, I picture a team of dedicated designers who love what they do and are proud at the masterpiece they've created (so much so that they set their prices a little higer than others). I'm sure that's Apple's intention.

    About a week or two later, I went out and bought a Powerbook, first Apple computer I've ever owned, and from my experience so far it defeinitely won't be the last :)

    Back to the original point though, since getting the Apple products I've asked (after research of course) numerous questions to the Apple community on the official community boards at apple.com (Dr Smoke rocks) and mac-forums.com - both have resulted in very kind, helpful answers, usually perfectly presented/formatted, in clear English and backed up with facts+links. I've been truly stunned at just how nice, and helpful, people in the "Apple Community" tend to be.

    You know, at the risk of sounding mildly troll-ish, some areas of the Linux community would really benefit from that kind of attitude. It could push Linux forward a long way.

    There is a little elitism and OS-mockage in some of the posters, just like with any other OS, but no more than others.
  • by hey! ( 33014 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @02:43PM (#10911046) Homepage Journal
    Well, why there is probably less to this than meets the eye, there is probably more to it than you suggest.

    It isn't about choosing your computer to suit your peripherals -- you can use an iPod with a Windows box. I think it's more like this. Maybe you had a flash based player before. Clunky, inelgant, with a totally brain damaged idea of what "style" entails. You get an iPod, and realize that it is everything your old player ought to have been: convenient, elegant and sleek.

    Then one day while you are listening to your iPod and working on your probably popup infested computer, you have two epiphanies.

    Epiphany 1: Windows is clunky and inelegant and ugly.

    Epiphany 2: Apple makes computers.

  • by Johnathon_Dough ( 719310 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @02:51PM (#10911107)
    I have ripping & burning software (EAC & Nero) which both do a better job than iTunes. I already have organisation software (JRMC)

    If you wanted one basic app do do all of the above list you would want iTunes. You != Everyone, in particular Everyone != tech savvy.

    The import process is a pain in the behind

    You put in a CD and push the button on the top right hand side that says import. Or, if you are particularly lazy, you set the preference that says "import songs on CD insertion". How is this a pain in the behind?

    It's a bit of a resource hog

    Does it hog more resources than EAC, Nero, and JRMC all running at once? Genuinely curious.

    and the interface is nicely non-standard

    Or if you wanted too look at it differently, Windows interface is non-standard. As many other comments have pointed out, this is an Apple product ported to Windows made to function as closely as possible to OSX, so, the interface is actually pretty close to "standard" to OSX.

  • Re:Not for techs (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MachineShedFred ( 621896 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @03:02PM (#10911191) Journal
    What does it leave?

    Well, a windowing environment that is useable, and applications that most users would consider actually using.

    (hint: most non-slashdot reading users don't know of the existance of OpenOffice.)
  • by kendoka ( 473386 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @03:12PM (#10911302)
    Normally I would find this story odd, except after I read it, I realized I too was one of those people. =) (Well okay, being a *NIX junkie helps too. =))
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @03:12PM (#10911303)
    Build a dell with the same amount of functionnalities (not the first entry-level $300 machine), add the software that's bundled with the iBook (I'll exempt you of finding a GarageBand alternative) and then compare the prices.

    So you're saying the cost of the software is bundled in? Please stop forcing me to buy software I don't want. That reminds me of a story my friends tells about a college roommate he had. The guy ran across a bargain on produce at a local stand, and brought back to the apartment 3 bags filled with it. He got a great price, but none of the guys in the apartment really ate any vegetables. It all rotted. Good deal, though.

    I'd like a iBook deal that costs less and doesn't include iDVD or iMovie. If the cost is bundled in, and I'm not going to use it, it's not a good deal for me.

    Quick comparison:

    Lowest price preconfigured iBook I can find at the Apple Store [apple.com]:

    1.2GHz PowerPC G4

    512K L2 cache @1.2GHz

    12-inch TFT Displays

    1024x768 resolution

    256MB DDR266 SDRAM

    30GB Ultra ATA drive

    Combo Drive

    ATI Mobility Radeon 9200

    32MB DDR video memory

    AirPort Extreme built-in

    Cost: $999

    Dell Inspiron for same price, from Dell's site [dell.com]:

    Intel® Celeron® M Processor 340(1.50GHz/400MHz FSB)

    15.4-inch TFT display

    1280x800 resolution

    512MB DDR SDRAM (333MHz)

    60GB Ultra ATA drive

    24X CD-RW/DVD Combo Drive

    NVIDIA® GeForceTM FX Go5200 (ATI Mobility Turbo is an option)

    32 MB DDR video memory

    Intel® ProWireless 2200 (802.11b/g) mini PCI wireless card

    Cost: $999

    So, for the same price, the Dell gives you a bigger display, with higher resolution, twice the memory, twice the HD space... but the iBook isn't expensive because I get iMovie and Garage Band?!?

  • by prockcore ( 543967 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @03:25PM (#10911422)
    I love how everyone defending Apple's prices compares it to Dell.

    We think Dell is overpriced as well! Oh look, if you compare Apple with the most overpriced PC vendor, it doesn't look so bad.

    Try comparing to eMachines AMD64 Laptops, which are amazing.
  • Simple Reasons. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jellomizer ( 103300 ) * on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @03:27PM (#10911454)
    Why is sales up for Apple because of iPod PC -> Mac switchers. It is rather simple, Person has a PC. They buy an iPod. To Buy the iPod they may walk into an Apple Store or an Apple Reseller. While in the store they see the other produducts out there. A percentage of them like the product line and buys a Mac the next time they want to upgrade.

    Most people when upgrading there PC they don't even think about going to Mac. I wasn't when I was thinking about getting a new Notbook a couple of years ago. Then while me and my friends were at the mall they wanted to rent a Tux and I didn't so while they were at the Tux store I went next door to the Apple Store and looked at what they had to offer then I decided I like what I saw. Then doing some more reshearch and cost comparison I decided to get the Powerbook because it was the best deal for what I wanted.

    So the popularity of the iPod just basicly reminds people when they need a New PC that Macs are a possible solution.
  • by Starluck ( 814092 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @03:28PM (#10911458)
    I am a Graphic Artist and a huge gamer. I work on a mac daily and then go home and play games on my PC. I personally like the interface and smoothness of the mac in comparison, but my big problem here are the GAMES!!! I believe Apple missed a HUGE opportunity in shunning the game market. If I could play the same games on my mac as on my PC I would definately have a MAC at home, but thats not the case. Apple left gamers lying in the mud only to be rescued by one Bill Gates and MS. IMHO there would be a much less of a divide between MAC/PCs if MACS were more gamer friendy... Just imagine if Apple bought Bungi, and Halo was released for the MAC first, I think that would have been more significant than the iPod in bringing poeple to the MAC side. So some1 please explain to me, because I fail to understand apple's stance on not making gaming a significant capability of Macs..
  • by FunWithHeadlines ( 644929 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @03:30PM (#10911479) Homepage
    "I've been truly stunned at just how nice, and helpful, people in the "Apple Community" tend to be."

    Me too. Oh sure, in any large group there are the trolls and rude people. But by and large you get very helpful responses from the Apple community. I think part of it is the perceived niche status. People who feel they need to stick together to help each other out often do try to be more helpful.

    Another part of it is there are fewer resources available for the Apple crowd compared to the Windows crowd, so there seems to be a feeling of 'Well, this site is fairly rare, better make it a good one.' So you get fewer resources, but often the quality of them equals the best of the Windows resources. End result: You have what you need.

    And there has to be a sociological aspect to it as well. Apple users must be a self-selected subset of society, a group that is similar to, say, BMW or Mercedes buyers. People who like well-crafted machinery, good performance, ease of use. The kind of person who is drawn to these qualities may also tend to be helpful to their fellow Apple- (or BMW-) owner.

  • Re:Well... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by merdark ( 550117 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @03:34PM (#10911515)
    If 6% of OSX users switch to XP because itunes is available on win32, the situation is pretty much a wash.

    First, I don't know the actual stats on people switching the other way. But even if 6% did switch the other way, it's still not a wash.

    Why? Because the number of OS X users is different than the number of ipod users. Assuming (again, don't know the numbers, but it seems reasonable), that there are far far more ipod users than OS X users, 6% of a large number is much much more than 6% of a small number.
  • by packslash ( 788926 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @03:51PM (#10911688) Homepage
    Don't get me wrong I'm writing this proudly from a G5. But Not many ppl get pleasantly surprised when they see apple's prices.
  • Re:Mac Envy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by easter1916 ( 452058 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @03:57PM (#10911781) Homepage
    That it's "cool" doesn't take away from the fact that it's a great platform and also has great design. I didn't buy a PB because I wanted to be "cool" (believe me, I abandoned that "dream" a looooong time ago) but because I, personally, loved the OS and the hardware.
  • by hey! ( 33014 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @04:35PM (#10912224) Homepage Journal
    elegant and sleek.
    are these the criteria that make a computer good?

    Dude, you are talking to a man who in twenty years never failed to lose the case of his computer, at least until I switched to laptops.

    That said, you should come down off your high horse. Good design is better than bad design. And poseurs in my experience tend to gravitate towards the latter (SUVs like the Hummer being a case in point -- a more perfect match of ugliness, stupidity and appeal to insecurity has never graced the road).

    Good design is more than skin deep: it complements, and in some cases even enhances functionality. My family always drove Buicks when I grew up, and they always had overwrought (bad) instrument panels. I remember my mom muttering as she struggled to set the temperature with a ridiculous thumb wheel control that required something like ten turns to go from one extreme to another so that it could drive a stupid bar graph indicator gadget.

    Why pretty much epitomizes bad design: slap some chrome or some gimmick on as an afterthought in order to make a statement.

    By contrast, the instrument panel in my accord is almost zen like in its simplicity. It is logical, well laid out, and doesn't have anything that is unnecessary. But it manages to be elegant and is a pleasure to use.

    Which epitomizes good design: logic, efficiency, organization and a concern for the user.
  • Since when has elegance and 'sleekness' been bad?

    Why do you even assume it's about image and self esteem or feeling better about yourself?

    An iPod is undeniably sleek and elegant when compared to everything that came before it, and many that came after it.

    The same with Apple computers.

    There are TECHNICAL reasons why elegance is a worthwhile attribute for any device, not just mp3 players or computers. Sleekness requires definition, but elegance has it's own context:

    You can also define things by the inverse, in this case elegance:

    So if a computer is graceful and not clumsy, I think anyone would agree that it is better than a computer that is clumsy and not graceful.
  • by robvs68 ( 560549 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @05:04PM (#10912529)
    "Most people choose the tools that allow them to do the task they want... be that graphics design, web surfing, or listining to music."

    No. Most people (buying a home computer) buy winTel out of ignorance, fear, or lemming mentality, not because they've determined that it is the best tool for the job. (Yes, there are plenty of "smart" people that buy winTel because they like it - don't get your panties in a twist)

    People who buy out of ignorance just don't know any better and are not interested/too lazy to look at other options. People who buy out of fear, do so because they are afraid of change and just want to stick with what is familiar to them. And the lemmings, of course, buy winTel because "if that's what everyone is buying, it must be the superior product."

    Most typical home computer tasks are handled as well or better on a Mac (web, email, word processing, digital photography, digital video). The only common "task" that a winTel may handle better is games, but only because of availablity of certain games, not useability.
  • by waynelorentz ( 662271 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @05:31PM (#10912802) Homepage
    Sorry. Not everyone lives in their mom's basements. Some of us live in the real world.

    Your argument is invalid because all of its points have been refuted successfully in this thread and elsewhere on Slashdot, the internet, and the real world.

    Apple managed to make a computer that is both elegant and good at its task. Get over it.

    There are people in this world with more money than you, and the right to spend it the way they want. Get over it.

    Apple's products are not overpriced. It doesn't matter how many times you say it, it's simply not true. Get over it.

    Some people have different product requirements than you do. Get over it.

    In summary: Get over yourself.

  • by mrchaotica ( 681592 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @05:46PM (#10912964)
    I was completely agreeing with you until I got to the last paragraph. Macs, at least the white ones, are not overpriced. In fact, I comparison shopped for a thin-and-light and ended up buying a 12" iBook because it was the best value, even without factoring in OS X. And considering the fact that to truly equate a PC with an iMac you'd have to price out the CPU plus the 17" or 20" widescreen LCD, iMac G5s are probably a better value too.
  • by tonejava ( 772709 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @06:07PM (#10913208)
    I would recommend you give a mac a try. I got mine also for development purposes and haven't looked back since (12" PowerBook). Again linux is a cheaper alternative but keeping the Mac up to date is much simpler.
  • by NeedleSurfer ( 768029 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @08:55PM (#10914643)
    I switched to a PC to play more games in a better way, I sadly believed the people telling me there weren't any significant difference between Mac and PCs as far as plug and play, stability and speed was concerned nowadays.

    A little hint to all those saying this like parrots: it's not true, at all. Pcs crash a lot more, fail more often, cost more for the same power (SAME, not number wise but real-life wise) are constantly being attacked (my anti-virus keep finding stuff about every day, adaware doesn't even remove all of the spyware I get...) and need protection software constantly monitoring the computer for malware, which in turn seriously slow it down and interfere with your normal operations (and YES I use firefox before some fuckin Linux asshole point his wisdom to me). The OS is still clunky as hell, you still have to press start to stop the OS and the interface is built around the concept that you want to work with the computer not on your creations.

    In short I deeply regret my switch, I play games on my PC but have switched back to my old iBook dualUSB 500MHz for everything else, this little fellow let me do more stuf in a much more stable way than my 3.4GHz 1GB ram monster PC which cost me 4230$Canadian, monitor included.
  • Look & Feel (Score:2, Insightful)

    by jdwegner ( 742245 ) * on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @09:41PM (#10914910)
    As a former NeXT programmer/admin, I really hated to go back to Windows. NeXTSTEP was just so seamless and, well, pretty. I've eaven tried multiple distros of Linux, trying to get back to the "good ol days". Today, for the money and the apps I use, Windows is still the easiest.

    But then I was given an iPod (4G 20GB). Just holding it makes me want to go "ahhhhh". The ease of use and functionality made me realize that Windows is just one big compromise. XP is much better than older versions, but it's just not the same.

    My current laptop is a 5-year-old IBM ThinkPad. It has served me well. My next laptop will be a powerbook. I really like the ahhhhhhhhhh...

  • by SnprBoB86 ( 576143 ) on Thursday November 25, 2004 @12:19AM (#10915837) Homepage
    Three of my friends at college have made the switch to OSX over this past summer. One of them told me that the iPod was his "gateway drug" to becoming a Mac user. The other two quickly agreed that they became converts in a similar way. One saw an OSX demo in the Apple section of a Comp USA while buying an iPod and the other was introduced to Macs when asking a friend about his Mac and iPod before buying one.

    Seeing as none of them are particuarly computer literate, I've helped a few of them with various applications. As a result I have become a proponent of Macs for technically-challeneged people. They are in a technological bliss I have never seen with the average casual user.

    Instead of continuing the Linux crusade, I suggest techies push OSX on people. It will be an easier switch and will eventually help everyones anti-Microsoft cause. In the end it will even help Linux because software will be built with Windows/Unix cross platformity in mind.
  • by toddestan ( 632714 ) on Thursday November 25, 2004 @12:56AM (#10916045)
    It's only because of the crazy amounts of money that Macs fetch on the used market. You can actually sell a 5 year old Macintosh to someone. A five year old PC is about at the point where you might be able to give it away if you find someone who is willing take it. It really has nothing to do with how long the hardware itself works, or what ancient hulk you can install the latest OS on.
  • by bmxbandit ( 608873 ) on Thursday November 25, 2004 @09:40AM (#10917588)
    Though this has been explained time and time again, people still don't seem to get it. The truth is Apple are NOT a niche company. They are in fact one of the biggest, and certainly the most important PC company in the industry ever since they invented it. The misunderstanding is created (and heavily milked by toy companies such as Microsoft) because nobody stops to think about what a computer user actually is. The vast majority (in my experience) of Windows users are not computer users, or at least they are people who do not rely on a computer to do their work. If they did they would not be able to afford the constant patching, rebooting, viri or worse (MS patches and software). Most MS customers use computers for tasks that could be accomplished by an Amstrad Word processor 10 years ago (email/word proceccing). Of course I'm forgetting gaming. MS also appeal to people who spend over a grand on a games system thats almost as good as a $100 PS2, once you've spent an hour installing it. The hard truth is Electrical chains will continue to push joke technology such as Windows and office, as long as there are people dumb enough to buy it. That's because they can sell them a $300 computer for $1500, and know for a fact that they will need a new one in 6 months. My point is, these people are badly informed consumers, NOT computer users. Computer users are Publishing Companies, Design Agencies, Aircraft Designers, Recording Studios, ... the list is endless, but you'll probably find all of these industries dismissed by the so called computer press (ie MS press) as 'niche' industries. How convenient.
    I challenge anybody to name a single MS innovation since they ported somebody elses code to the Altair. Not much of a record for a so called 'Industry Leader' hah.

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