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News Science

Major Climate Change 5,200 Years Ago Could Repeat 845

Posted by CowboyNeal from the meteorology-and-future-prediction dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The climate was altered suddenly some 5,200 years ago with severe impacts. Famouse glaciologist professor Lonnie Thompson have found clues that show history repeating itself. Thompson has spent his career trekking to the far corners of the world to find remote ice fields and then bring back cores drilled from their centers. Within those cores are the records of ancient climate from across the globe. He outlined his fears today at the annual meeting of the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco. 'The evidence clearly points back to this point in history and to some event that occurred. It also points to similar changes occurring in today's climate as well,' he said."
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Major Climate Change 5,200 Years Ago Could Repeat More

Major Climate Change 5,200 Years Ago Could Repeat

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  • Oh no! (Score:5, Funny)

    by modifried ( 605582 ) on Friday December 17, 2004 @04:18AM (#11114070) Homepage
    New York City will be flooded by seawater, the temperature will plunge at a rate of 10 degrees per second, and people will be transformed into ice statues where they stand. Tokyo will be bombarded with killer hailstones! The polar ice caps will MELT. This sounds like the perfect storyline for a really shitty mov-- oh, right..

  • I'm sorry to say this (Score:5, Insightful)

    by eclectro ( 227083 ) on Friday December 17, 2004 @04:18AM (#11114071)
    from the article
    "The evidence is clear that a major climate change is underway."

    President George W. Bush disagrees with this. Therefore more study is needed.

    • Re:I'm sorry to say this (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I read the article, too bad it didn't provide any of the evidence about a current change; it just provided evidence about the one that occurred 5,200 years ago. I am geniunely concerned about the current situation, but articles without hard data will not convice anyone that something is happening now.

    • Global Warming ... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Gopal.V ( 532678 ) on Friday December 17, 2004 @04:35AM (#11114150) Homepage Journal

      Uhmm.. G.W Bush claims that "Global Warming" (henceforth referred to as "G.W") will melt the poles and ....
      God shall call forth another great flood to cleanse the world.

      Whitehouse later retracted the claims when they realized NYC will be under 20 feet of sea water. The Gaia theory has been proposed along with Alaskan ice to fix the issue in concern.

      Of course he blames the entire problem on Iraq and the fact that they set fire to oil wells in Kuwait in 1991 leading to a rise in temperature of the Free World. Also Canadians contribute to this problem in no small amount as a comparitive study of houses with central heating in Miami and Tornoto showed.

      Mmm... twisted news :)

    • Re:I'm sorry to say this (Score:3, Informative)

      by Cally ( 10873 )
      Actually, even the Bush government now accepts the worldwide scientific consensus that human CO2 emissions are causing global climate change - google for 'Bush accept climate change' and pick your preferred source. He just doesn't think the US should join Kyoto or tajke any significant action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

      Please take note, all the nay-sayers posting ill-informed reasons why they think the theory is bunk.

    • Re:I'm sorry to say this (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Cally ( 10873 )

      from the article "The evidence is clear that a major climate change is underway." President George W. Bush disagrees with this. Therefore more study is needed.

      Actually- and I know this will annoy the rabid nay-sayers who always post their ill-informed strawmen, non-sequiturs and logical fallacies to these Slashdot stories - a quick Google search [google.com] will demonstrate that nowadays, even the Dubya regieme accepts that human CO2 emissions are causing climate change, just like the world's climatologists have

    • it was clear that the oceans would die by the turn of the century, the ozone hole would be so large it would cover parts of Africa, people would be dieing of radiation poisoning from the sun... etc etc etc.

      Weren't the ice caps supposed to be all gone soon?

      Why should even the public take notice anymore? The boy who cried wolf syndrome has worn done the public's acceptance.

      Proof has been constantly cited since the 70s and yet all the dire predictions have come to naught. I am not saying they are all wron

      • it was clear that the oceans would die by the turn of the century, the ozone hole would be so large it would cover parts of Africa, people would be dieing of radiation poisoning from the sun... etc etc etc.

        No-one ever suggested any of this would happen. The ozone hole has stabilised and perhaps started to shrink because the world took notice of warnings from atmospheric physicists and chemists and agreed to phase out the use of CFCs. It was called the Montreal Protocol and is an excellent examlpe of wor

    • The Administration disagrees that any warming is conclusively caused by human activity, and that any policy actions by governments would have any effect whatsoever.

      Honest people can agree that some marginal climate change is occurring. On this point, no climatologist seems to disagree. However, it is not either clear or obvious that human activity is responsible, and on that honest people can disagree. Climate is not static, which should be plenty obvious to the non-zealot.

      This finding, by the way, sup

  • More information from osu (Score:4, Informative)

    by djplurvert ( 737910 ) on Friday December 17, 2004 @04:19AM (#11114076)
    here...http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/quelpla nt.htm [osu.edu]

  • Old News (Score:5, Funny)

    by commodoresloat ( 172735 ) on Friday December 17, 2004 @04:21AM (#11114085)
    This story is a dupe from 3196 B.C.
    • This story is a dupe from 3196 B.C.

      You mean 3197 BC -- there wasn't any year 0.
  • There was a study by the Russians in the 70's to investigate whether a Nuclear Winter might be irreversible.

    IIRC, the study concluded that the 63% was the tipping point where the reflection of heat from white ice starts a self propogating ice age.

    Mankind will survive anyway, that's all I really care :)

  • FINE! (Score:5, Funny)

    by pchan- ( 118053 ) on Friday December 17, 2004 @04:30AM (#11114125) Journal
    i see how it is. i finally get a girlfriend and now the planet's going to freeze over.

    thanks a fucking bunch, environment.

    • Re:FINE! (Score:3, Funny)

      by SenseiLeNoir ( 699164 )
      Actually the fault is mine and my wife's...

      Before we met each other... we used to proclaim how hell would freeze over before either of us get married... That was until we met each other...and last month we ended up marrying each other...

      sorry folks!
  • There is substantial evidence of the impact human actions have on natural resources, like pollution, extreme CO2 amounts, ozon destruction etc. If nature goes wild, then it's nature's fault, but we humans should not accelerate that fault.

  • Possibly a good thing (Score:3, Interesting)

    by trash eighty ( 457611 ) on Friday December 17, 2004 @04:32AM (#11114134) Homepage
    i've read that this climate change could have been the spur for the start of civilisation. the drying environment in the ancient middle east caused people to migrate from drying marsh areas to near rivers and irrigation (and hence cities, civilisation, writing et cetera) may have developed to counter the drier weather.

    • Re:Possibly a good thing (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Cally ( 10873 )
      The problem is that the changes that human activities have increased atmospheric levels of CO2 at an unprecedented rate. It is therefore very likely (even on conservative estimates) that climate changes will be dramatic, non-linear, and thus rather bad for human civilisation. (Think sea-level rises of tens of meters. Think the US turning into a dustbowl. )

      Some references to further information. Google can supply nonsensical 'sceptic' links if you really want to see what the oil lobby and AM radio types

      • First, this is a hideously complex phenomena that no one really understands. From TFA:

        "Any prudent person would agree that we don't yet understand the complexities with the climate system and, since we don't, we should be extremely cautious in how much we 'tweak' the system," [Thompson] said.

        What I get from this is that we'd better stand very still, because we don't know what changes will do what. For now, the safest course of action is to change NOTHING, i.e., maintain current levels without significa

      • In case people want to read about the Greenland Glacier: Article [physorg.com]

        I found it interesting that it had actually slowed and built up between 1991 and 1997.
      • thirty years of research by peer-reviewed scientists

        What really frightens me is that since I started following the science of this stuff in the mid 80s,

        Ah, so you missed the 70's when the same groups of people were telling us about the cooling we were supposedly causing.

        Here is a Newsweek article from 1975:
        Global Cooling Newsweek Article [globalclimate.org]

        And that's not all. "Peer reviewed" journals also had calls to herald the global drops in temperatures. Presidents and leaders were warned to start stockpiling food

  • Climate change predictions (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Siener ( 139990 ) on Friday December 17, 2004 @04:32AM (#11114136) Homepage
    We know that in the past the earth has gone through many (often cataclysmic) climate changes. We also know that this will happen again.

    Since the 70's every now and again someone predicts that such a climate change is just around the corner. The truth is that these predictions are very inaccurate. I'm talking thousands of years uncertainty. I see nothing in this article that makes this prediction any different.

    So relax, the chances of anything like this happening in your lifetime is vanishingly small.
    • So let's just treat the planet like one big fucking toilet so our ancestors can be treated to hell on eearth.
      • Given out ancestors are dead already I doubt we can affect whether they get to live in Heaven or Hell now.
      • So let's just treat the planet like one big fucking toilet so our ancestors can be treated to hell on eearth.

        That is not what I said at all. For our descendants' sake we should look after the planet as well as we can. We should also make plans to ensure human survival in the case of major climate change, which will happen at some stage.

        I was just pointing out that these kinds of (scare mongering) predictions are nothing new, and I don't see any reason to give this one more credence than any of all the w

    • What's interesting, is that global warming might trigger an ice age, at least for the northern hemisphere. As I'm sure many /.-ers are aware of, much of the reason for the mild climate in northern and western Europe, is the Gulf Stream.

      What happens in detail, is that warm surface water flows from the equator towards the northern parts of the Atlantic. As the Gulf Stream moves north, some of the warm water evaporates, which increases the salinity level of the remaining water. At the same time, the water te

      • What's interesting, is that global warming might trigger an ice age

        How convenient for the environmental alarmists. Now any weather event, hot or cold, can be used as "evidence" for further scaremongering.

        Guess what folks, there were floods and hurricanes and blizzards before humans ever existed. Before the first caveman learned to tame fire, Earth's temperature and climate varied in ways that dwarf today's minor fluctuations.

        Junk science [junkscience.com]-- mere blips of statistical noise tortured out of dubious compu

    • I remember how they kept telling us kids in the 70s how there would be a new ice age before the turn of the century. Boy we were gullible back then.

      It's not only well past that date now, but I'm pretty sure that parka I got just in case is long past the exchange/return period.

      • I remember how they kept telling us kids in the 70s how there would be a new ice age before the turn of the century. Boy we were gullible back then

        This is actually a good point. Strangely enough, a vast amount ofnew research has been done in the last thirty years, and the computer power running the (much much more accurate) computer models, plus vastly improved knowledge of paleoclimatology from proxy temperature records such as ice cores, sediments from the sea bed etc, has now put that findnig into co

    • You are probably paying already for climate change

      Last time I pulled apart pricing on a weather derivative I put the question back - what is this trend in the pricing over the years? No it wasn't Enron and yes they are still in business.

      Global warming premium.

    • Since the 70's every now and again someone predicts that such a climate change is just around the corner. The truth is that these predictions are very inaccurate. I'm talking thousands of years uncertainty. I see nothing in this article that makes this prediction any different. So relax, the chances of anything like this happening in your lifetime is vanishingly small.

      Wow, you realise that - as you know something that none of the other climatologists in the world [ipcc.org]know, that you must be on the brink of

  • We already know the Earth's climate is changing, you can say it'll get super hot, super cold, or tentical monsters will invade.

    The world leaders arn't really listening, they just go "yea we'll do it.. erm.. we've got lag!"

    Just learn to swim...
  • There wouldn't have been a problem if the Egyptians hadn't ruined the environment by building all those pyramids. Their per capita consumption of limestone far exceeded that of other human populations, leading to a significant increase in the albedo of the planet, and global cooling. The correlation of climate change with pyramid building is clear proof that it was their fault.

    • laugh while you can, monkey boy (Score:4, Informative)

      by jeif1k ( 809151 ) on Friday December 17, 2004 @07:23AM (#11114698)
      Did you even bother to read the story? This study shows that abrupt climate change can and does occur. Maybe it was triggered by a volcanic eruption. Maybe it was triggered by unusually strong forest fires. Maybe it was those in combination with some other factors. Maybe it was a surge in solar output, as the story suggests. The point is: short-term climate change can happen and it can have devastating consequences. As the author of the study says:
      "The climate system is remarkably sensitive to natural variability," he said. "It's likely that it is equally sensitive to effects brought on by human activity, changes like increased greenhouse gases, altered land-use policies and fossil-fuel dependence.


      "Any prudent person would agree that we don't yet understand the complexities with the climate system and, since we don't, we should be extremely cautious in how much we 'tweak' the system," he said.

      "The evidence is clear that a major climate change is underway."
      You know, people like you are one reason why the possibility of climate change wiping out the human race is perhaps not such a bad thing: investing as many resources in maintaining a big brain as the human body does is only worth it if it leads to better survival. But a species that ignores such serious warning signs as we have had about global climate change perhaps just doesn't have an evolutionary advantage compared to, say, rats or cockroaches. And they will survive climate change because their needs are more modest; they don't need to maintain big brains and all the complications that entails.
  • ...a woolly mammoth with food still in its mouth?

  • Day after tomorrow (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Ch3schir3 ( 812115 )
    the only good point about this movie was the last 30 seconds when the astronaut points out he has never seen the atmosphere so clear before. anyways this sort of story is old news for anyone who has seen the movie Pi, and has tried to apply spirals to life. Life will constantly repeat itself, spiraling to a point that is finally rock bottom, at which point our survival instincts will take over, and we will shift to a new spiral, hit the pinnacle of society in that form, and spiral back down to self destruc
  • If you want to support real climate change research instead of listening to this fear mongering, head over to climateprediction.net [climateprediction.net] and donate some of your idle CPU time to their distibuted computing project.

  • Maya's announcing this (Score:4, Interesting)

    by SkunkAh ( 633183 ) on Friday December 17, 2004 @05:58AM (#11114457)
    The Maya's an Aztechs are announcing this with their calendar that includes 'new suns' every 5200 years and with the new sun comes an enormous climate change. Guess what according to the maya's the new sun is coming in the year 2012.
    More information about this can be found at a site about cropcircles, a certain crop which one the title 'cropcircle of the year' which is a doomsday calender which is warning for the new sun. The site explains the maya calender which fits exactly over the 5200 years of the old sun which according to the calendar will be replaced by the new sun and climate in 2012. http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2004/silburyhil l2/silburyhill2004b.html [cropcircleconnector.com]

  • Creationism (Score:2, Interesting)

    by sonamchauhan ( 587356 )
    So a catastrophic climate change took 5200 years ago?

    Bible believers have been talking about an ice age taking place a few hundred years after a world-wide deluge took place 5000 years ago...

    'After the Flood you would have both', says Mike. 'The water that the Bible indicates came from under the ground during the Flood would have been very warm or hot. This water mixing with the pre-Flood ocean would result in a significantly warmer ocean, right after the Flood, than today. Warmer water means more evapor

  • So why blame the industrialists? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tezza ( 539307 ) on Friday December 17, 2004 @06:10AM (#11114499)
    If this stuff happened in the past without modern intervention, scientists must be doubly certain that any climate change is down to industrial abuse.

    To raise a question, and put my Fatalistic hat on:
    If Act of G-d similar to Jacob and the famine in Egypt [jewishvirtuallibrary.org] is definitely going to occur, why not make Hay while the sun shines, in preparation for the famine??

    So the scientists would have to show that any Kyoto-agreement like cut would be beneficial overall, not just putting your finger in a dyke. If we concentrate on trying to avoid it, and fail to make preparations, it could end up worse. This is not to deny that some companies and countries are evil and irresponsible muthafukkas. All this impending doom stuff is still unsubstantiated beyond this guy.

    The scientists need more funds to conduct studies.

  • Bad wording (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nwbvt ( 768631 ) on Friday December 17, 2004 @06:14AM (#11114513)
    "The climate was altered suddenly some 5,200 years ago with severe impacts."

    It "was altered"? By who? The cavemen? Or was it the vast civilization of the woolly mammoth whose massive industrialized society spewed greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere?

    I know the idea that our environment is a static entity that will only be changed should someone like the evil corporations or the Bush administration do something to it is a commonly accepted idea, but that is just scientifically inaccurate.

    • Re:Bad wording (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Mordaximus ( 566304 ) on Friday December 17, 2004 @08:58AM (#11115098)
      It "was altered"? By who? The cavemen? Or was it the vast civilization of the woolly mammoth

      You point out what you think is bad wording in the submission, yet ask if cavemen or mammoths altered the environment, 5200 years ago?!

      5,200 years ago would be just slightly before 1st dynasty egypt, not pre-historic cave men in giant mammoth land. Actually it would be intersting if this climate change was the catalyst to lower and upper egypt uniting, after all, there would have been only roughly 100 years between the climate changes and the beginning of Menes' reign.

      I don't think the the wording is bad at all ; a volcano can alter the climate suddenly, a tidal wave can as well. If you associate alteration of the climate with human or mammoth intervention that's your interpretation and not the author's fault.

    • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) * on Friday December 17, 2004 @09:17AM (#11115233)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Discount Climate Change (Score:3, Funny)

    by The Wicked Priest ( 632846 ) on Friday December 17, 2004 @10:56AM (#11116111)
    When I went to RTFA, in the Google ads in the left column, I got this one:

    Ads by Goooooogle
    Discount Climate Change
    New & used Climate Change. aff Check out the huge selection now!
    www.eBay.com

    I swear I am not making this up.

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