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2004 Digital Media Winners and Losers 177

Posted by CmdrTaco from the stuff-to-read dept.
An anonymous reader writes "MP3 Newswire has just released Richard Menta's annual digital media winners and losers list. Apple tops the winners list for the second year in a row as does eDonkey and last spring's Grey Album protest. Losers include the term iPod Killers, Winamp, and the WMA format. BitTorrent made both lists. Menta also released a 2005 wishlist. Topping that list is an iPod in-dash unit similar to the old Rio Car. You can see Menta's previous years winners and losers lists."
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2004 Digital Media Winners and Losers More

2004 Digital Media Winners and Losers

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  • What about CPU? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by faragon ( 789704 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @12:47PM (#11304281) Homepage
    In the winner side may be kind to name ARM, IBM, AMD and VIA designs; at the loser side, Intel, MIPS and Hitachi (CPU division) for being less paranoid than expected (that was the key secret for previous uP series: be paranoid in extremis to survive).

  • TiVo (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by Viceice ( 462967 )
    Judging by the news on it, shouldn't Tivo be in the loosers and not winners list?

    • Nothing even comes close yet. Yeah, you can make your own homebrew DVR box for free and everything, but it's not about cost, it's about features and functionality - Something no one has even came near yet. Their guide listings are the best and most accurate out of any competitor, carry more info, and are quickly corrected when a lineup change happens. You dont see this anywhere else with such a high accuracy rate. You get what you pay for rings true here more than anywhere else.

      As for the cable boxes that

      • I dissagree complely. I have a cable box from Time Warner in Cincinnati, (Ohio, USA) and it works far better than most of my friends Tivo boxen. Maybe this UI isn't deployed elsewhere.
        • I have DirecTiVo (That would be Tivo built on a DirecTV receiver) and I haven't seen any set tip DVR solution that can compare. I'm even looking at a MythTV solution for some things that I may want to do around the house as far as streaming media to other Televisions, but for ease of use, pretty pictures, up to date guides, and just all around pleasant experience... I've got to give it to TiVo on this one. Of all the DVRs around, the TiVo is by far the best you can "buy".

  • This guy seriously needs to be more digital Media saavy...

  • Not a stock investor... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 09, 2005 @01:11PM (#11304356)
    With everyone making Tivo knockoffs (got my card @ newegg.com for $30 bucks last year) -- how is that service a winner?

    Did the author forget Tivo charges for DVR when most of us that are tech saavy can get it for free?
    • Hmm, I got tivo for free. [tivo.com] what does that make me? not tech savy-- consumer savy?

    • Re:Not a stock investor... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by wernercd ( 837757 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @01:54PM (#11304525)
      I think it points to the fact that as far as the 'masses' are concerned it did something to bring a good product that NORMAL people can use.

      Sure a technophile can do all this stuff, but the cost is normally a lack of social skills from all the time it takes to learn new techonology. Sure I've known people who can program their own stuff but that's not your 'normal person'.

      Despite all the problems TIVO has due to competition it did brink to the markeplace something that the vast majority of people can use easily.

      I think the ratio of 'normal people' to 'tech savy' is a fairly big difference. Just think of all the people that have no clue what SpyWare is, or how to use WindowsUpdate (Normal people don't use *nix. So don't flame me lol).

      Just my 2c
      • Of course "normal" people know how to use WindowsUpdate. They have to run it like 12 times a day to keep their machines down to only getting owned 3 or 4 times a week.
        • Not quite.

          Instead it gets owned and they think it's broken and:
          A) Return it to wherever they bought it from for a replacement.
          B) Buy a new computer.

          Hint: Your typical computer user is stupid.

          ND
          • Being possibly the only 'computer literate' person in my family I'll go with my experience on this one and agre with Nuclear here.

            Most of my family wouldn't know WindowsUpdate from a hole in the ground. I've talked some of my family thru using AdAware and found 700-1000 adware products before. Do they have a clue how to get rid of this stuff? Of course not. No more so than I know how to do a tune up or change the spark plugs on a car.

            That's just my experience. I've been away from my family for awhile (I

    • "can get for free" (Score:4, Interesting)

      by oneiros27 ( 46144 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @02:28PM (#11304713) Homepage
      You're paying for packaging and convenience.

      Most maps are available online -- yet ADC and other companies still exist, who package and distribute maps. People still buy TV Guide, and yet again, it's something that people could get online for free, if they knew where to look.

      I've written code to parse the NOAA's collection of METAR information, because my boss didn't want to pay some service provider for them to supply us with the information that had been converted to a more readily understood format.

      But that's not to say that there is no sustainable market for those people who sell the information. In the case of TiVo, they're selling more than just the information, as you're also paying for the rest of your system, and continued R&D. [and of course, lining someone's pockets, but we'll just assume that part isn't a significant number].

      There are plenty of things that are sold where the initial sale results in a loss, but additional money is made over time to justify the cost. Cell phones are a prime example -- they give the phones away, so they can make a profit by selling service. If TiVo wasn't selling service, they'd have to charge you more upfront. [and in fact, there's the 'lifetime' charge, which takes this into consideration, however, they're still losing money in the expense of their modem banks, and whatever else it takes for them to supply to information and distribution infrastructure]

      Just because you aren't willing to pay for the service, doesn't mean that no one else is willing to pay for convenience. We live in a commercial society where people are willing to pay extra for time savings (prepackaged meals), and to show off (luxury vehicles, oversized homes)

      I'm not going to claim that I can predict that TiVo is going to flop, or not, and I did work with my roommate on building a TV-connected game system that was also a PVR a few years ago, and I thought the process was a pain in the ass. I do know that I don't bother using it with the current software, and I haven't gone to the trouble of rebuilding it. I'd probably pick up a TiVo, and recycle that system, rather than go to the process of updating it.

  • Thanks to EMI... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by CrackedButter ( 646746 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @01:13PM (#11304364) Homepage Journal

    or mainly their bitching, I heard about the Grey Album and downloaded it to see what the fuss was about. Had they not done anything I would of been none the wiser, now I posess an albums worth of good music.
    Btw, I don't own any other illegal mp3s. Just the Grey album because EMI moaned rather than marketed it. Given a chance, I'd still pay for the cd however, the bit rates are lower (192kbps) than what I rip at (256kbps).
    • I heard about the Grey Album and downloaded it to see what the fuss was about. Had they not done anything I would of been none the wiser, now I posess an albums worth of good music.

      Exactly my experience too. Downloading MP3s is a pain in the butt and I honestly would rather just buy a CD at Amazon or elsewhere. My time is worth enough that I can't be bothered to troll through eDonkey or whatever, then deal with disrupted downloads, bad rips, and seeded files that are full of garbage.

      I do though wind up
      • Imagine what would of happened if EMI did market the Grey album rather than try to destroy it? Had they embraced it and P2P, they would of been far happier than they are now. Look at what happened with the indies, they are looking healthy because of it.

    • mnb Re:Thanks to EMI... (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Using Lame 3.90.3 and the --alt-preset standard command line switch will give you much better results than a fixed bitrate encode at 256kbs. The file will also be about 25% smaller.

      If file size doesn't matter to you, use --alt-preset extreme. The file size will be about the same, and you can sleep happy knowing that you used more bits.

    • > I heard about the Grey Album and downloaded it to see what the fuss was about.
      > Had they not done anything I would of been none the wiser, now I posess an
      > albums worth of good music.

      I temporarily possessed a really shitty rap album, and then I deleted it. Totally unexceptional in every way.
    • Speaking of EMI, I'm sort of surprised they didn't make the losers list. Every last one of the albums they release, to the best of my knowledge, are copy protected. Way to go EMI! The respect you show the consumer is outstanding!

      For those of us who still like to own shiny plastic discs, relish in the cover art and packaging, EMI has proven to be quite frustrating. I personally don't own a _real_ CD player (read: dedicated CD player -- i.e. non-computer) and listen to all my music through my computer or

  • Flawed feature (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anita Coney ( 648748 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @01:27PM (#11304395) Homepage
    WMA's ability to load web content is NOT merely flaw. It's a flawed feature.

    Think like Microsoft for a second. All it wants to do is dominate without any concern for security. It's trying to get the content industry to use its WMA format. Some lackey speaks up at a meeting:

    "I have a great idea. Let's add a feature to WMA so that it'll open up web content. So if EMI wants to distribute an WMA song it'll open an option to buy the whole CD."

    Of course all the brainless other lackeys at Microsoft agree that it's a great idea and implements it, completely oblivious to any security concerns.

    My question is whether Microsoft will be smart enough to disable this feature in future releases.

  • ipod in dash (Score:3, Interesting)

    by humuhumunukunukuapu' ( 678704 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @01:50PM (#11304503)
    if you get and alpine cda-xxxx head unit, say like this head unit here [crutchfield.com], and also get this adapter [crutchfield.com] you will be able to control the ipod from the head unit and have song titles and other info display on the head. this is not the same as the bmw thing...it is much much better.

    • Re:ipod in dash (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Quila467 ( 606996 ) *
      I have the Alpine CDA-9835 and just bought the KCA-420i and a 40 Gb iPod. It works great, and sounds great, but there are some limitations. You control the iPod from the head unit, not from the iPod. The head unit I have, while it was their high-end MP3 player in 2004, can only support up to 512 items. This is more than enough for any of the CD changers it was designed for, but is pretty inconvenient with the iPod. It means I can't see any artists beyond Ministry (the 512th artist alphabetically on my
    • I have an Alpine CDA-9807 head unit. For $40 labor, I had a $10 cable wired from the AUX IN port to the cup holders. Now I just place my iPod in its case in the cup holder, plug in the audio cable, and control the iPod using its own UI.

      For $100 plus installation (or not) the Alpine adapter is very limited. From reviews I've read, the head unit can scroll through titles VERY slowly (one every ~1 second) and it can't view more than a certain number of items (songs, artists, etc.).

      I commend Alpine for bui

  • Wishlist for 2005: Ogg (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Ars-Fartsica ( 166957 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @01:55PM (#11304530)
    Its becoming obvious that a totally open non-DRM format is a precondition for digital music.

  • The Real Losers (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Butthead ( 523905 ) <gerrynjr@ne[ ]ape.net ['tsc' in gap]> on Sunday January 09, 2005 @02:08PM (#11304602) Homepage
    are unfortunately the customers
  • Jens of Sweden buy cheap stuff from Korea and puts a logo on it... and then sells it expensive

  • WMA = FLAC? WTF? (Score:3)

    by FredThompson ( 183335 ) <fredthompsonNO@SPAMmindspring.com> on Sunday January 09, 2005 @02:38PM (#11304781)
    Not only is this a shill site, the author doesn't know the difference between lossy and lossless audio formats. Notice how they suggest FLAC might replace WMA.
  • Not that the Rio Car was a bad idea or anything (for its time it was pretty darn cool), but a pull-out car-stereo-sized unit you could yank out of your dash and take into the house to hook up to your computer for transferring music is not... elegant.

    A radio with a space for your iPod to actually slide into it - or an iPod dock that flips out of it somehow for the iPod to stand on, as long as it's secured well enough to not fall off when you corner like I do - would be pretty user-friendly. Make a couple

    • Being that I own 2 Rio Cars, I rather quite like them. And because I have used a variant for now over 5 years, anything less seems wrong. It is why I can't really stand an iPod, has too many limitations. The Karma is better, but yet it still doesn't officially do hierarchal playlists.

      The best solutions would be the iPod style dock. However, the head unit should not use the iPod for the interface, instead pull the database files and present a more user friendly interface on the head unit. User friendly
      • The Karma is better,...

        I just want to add my 2c here. I have a karma, and I have serious doubts to it's 'better' than iPod.

        Easily Scratchable, Easily skips, non-changable battery, easily breakable wheel, very bad customer suport (From what I've heard)...

        Just wanted to state that as someone who has bought a Karma it had the promise of something good. I loved the layout and the feel of it. But the build and the materials used for it absolutely destroyed any chance it had of being anything close to the
    • I have been looking into buying an iPod, and have been doing my research, comparing with other products

      My requirements are to have my entire music is available wherever I go, when I am in car, when I am in plane at home, etc.

      To be at home it must plug into my stereo, which like most MP3 devices is not a problem.

      I want a MP3 player to be played for 18 hours on plane, (+ 6 more hours to allow me to get to hotel to charge unit). The iPod can do with the external battery pack, so I will not be limited to

    • A radio with a space for your iPod to actually slide into it - or an iPod dock that flips out of it somehow for the iPod to stand on, as long as it's secured well enough to not fall off when you corner like I do - would be pretty user-friendly.

      This is not going to happen. Apple changes iPod form factor with every generation, and even within the same generation, high capacity iPods are thicker, requiring different docs. Maintaining compatibility would be too expensive- considering that no more than few pe
      • Yeah, that (cassette or 8-track slot replaced with slot for iPod) is pretty much what I was thinking, too.

        And...yeah, they do change the dock with new generations at least sometimes (although in the case of the iPod photo, it's because it needs more output jacks) but I think all the current generation click-wheel iPods (except the iPod photo, which is really another generation in a sense) fit the same docks, regardless of capacity.

        I could be wrong, though.
    • I'd like to have an MP3 player head unit in my car that's accesible via WiFi or bluetooth somehow so that I can sync my car stereo just like I sync my portable MP3 player. Or maybe a portable player with wifi or bluetooth and the head unit accesses it via wireless.

      I don't think "docking" is an option with all the different form factors of MP3 players out there (including the various iPod form factors even).

      -Zak

  • MP3 in-dash unit (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Smiffa2001 ( 823436 )
    How about this then from Dension here in the UK, just add a 2.5" HDD of your choice and go: http://www.dension.com/main.php?pageid=49&topid=42 [dension.com]

    Ive not had the pleasure of an iPod or 'iPod Killer', but most of my music is MP3-based and I use a car more than walk (not that I'd walk around with an iPod in my pocket these days). End of this month, I'll be hopefully getting hold of one - I think they retail for around £270 - £300 (what that is in $ is anyones guess atm).
    • I want one iPod to control all.

      I want all my music needs sorted, car, plane and home.

      When I am in my car I want to use the Head Unit to control my MP3 player, since the iPod is so common several companies such as Alpine and Pioneer supporting with there new Head Units (in Pioneer case you may already have a unit that supports the iPod Adapter).

      I just bought a Pioneer DEH 7600 MP (£180) which is iPod Adaptor ready and the iPod Adapter will be available in March with a suggested RRP of US $140 (so

    • A present from my very generous other half. It's great. The little disk caddy hooks up to a PC as a USB 2.0 hard drive for easy and fast file transfer, then slots into the head unit behind the faceplate. I'm very happy with it and highly recommend it. Of course now I have to put all my cd's onto it which is taking aaaaages....

      Dension dh100ix + 40Gbig toshiba drive = all your music available in the car.

      Dension also do an iPod adaptor for other makes of stereo to allow you to hook up your iPod to the cd-c
  • edonkey is a nice network but keep in mind eMule is the best client because of the many tweaking ability and it's clean cuz its open source.

    As for Sony being #2 in Losers, they imo deserve a lower slot like 5 or 6. While ATRAC is a codec that provides you very limited possibilities (so many little choices of bitrates), the players themselves aren't bad in terms of features such as long battery life (at least on the NetMD, ~45-50 hours playback), 5-band equalizer and the great remotes that makes make it so
    • Personally, I think Sony should be given the Perennial Loser award. Seriously, they've dropped the ball so many times in the last decade by trying force proprietary standards on a market that doesn't want or need them. For example: ATRAC, Minidisc, MemoryStick, the list goes on.

  • 5. Closed Torrent Sites (Score:2, Informative)

    by Neduz ( 713874 )
    Bittorrent is on the winners list, but several key torrent sites that were raided are on the losers list as they have been permanently closed. The maddening thing is that torrent sites don't trade music files, just torrents (little road signs to files) so there is no legal precedent in ANY country that makes them illegal. The problem is, these sites don't have the money to mount a case. The concept of guilty until proven innocent gets a boost here.

    That is not true actually, a few years ago, in Belgium, w
    • Being convicted means you are found guilty.
      Being sentenced means you are given a punishment for the crime you are guilty of.

      Conviction comes before sentencing.
  • I have an Iriver IHP-120 that is a 20 gig mp3 player and I have to say that it beats the shit out of ANY mp3 player I have seen. The Ipod is great and I LOVE Ipods GUI but Iriver cannot be matched IMO. Three thing about it that cannot be beaten by Ipod: 1. Copying anything (music included) onto the ihp-120 is so much simpler than the Ipod it is rediculous. When you plug it into the computer, it shows up as an icon in my computer or on the desktop in the case of a mac. Create folders inside as if it is a r

    • Re:No one mentions IRIVER anymore... (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      1) Use the god-damn P tag, will ya? Your post is like a fucking explosion at the Alpha-Bits factory.

      2) With all the cheapo storage space you're gushing about, do you think you could spare a few KBs for a dictionary?

      THERE'S NO _E_ IN RIDICULOUS

      THERE'S NO _A_ IN DEFINITELY!!!!

      For fuck's sake it's like an icepick through the eyes EVERY TIME.

    • I have to agree. I also have the iRiver HP120 and have used an iPod before. No question that the iRiver is better. BUT Apple has the "coolness" factor and the marketing. People want "an iPod", it's become the new "Band-Aid" or "Kleenex". It'll take a lot of effort and something stupid on Apple's part before anything really becomes an iPod killer.
      I love my iRiver!!!!!!
    • Thank you for this. The iPods are very nice. However, as a musician I have wanted an iriver for yonks. I don't care whether or not my equipment looks 'cool'. Great equipment is always cool. I don't care what anybody thinks, especially when my choice works for me.
      • http://www.iriveramerica.com/prod/hd/h340.aspx
      • The sleek and compact H340 40GB digital music player holds up to 1200 hours of your favorite songs. Plus, you can transfer and store digital pictures and view them on the vivid color display. A rech
    • yo, ipod does have a reset button as well. just hold the play/pause and menu buttons. it then does a hard reboot.
  • I would have thought Bose would have made the list. The company has majorly repositioned its legacy systems to support new digital units and formats.

  • The top of my wishlist? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Moses Lawn ( 201138 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @06:13PM (#11305987)
    I won't comment on the winners and losers list, but the number one thing *I* want to see? A volume control for the iPod. Yeah, the scroll wheel is a great metaphor, and I love it, but it's a pain in the ass for changing the volume.

    For one thing, you have to be at the "Now Playing" screen for volume to even be available. Now, imagine you have the unit in your shirt pocket, walking down the street. The next song comes on way too loud (or way too quiet). Quick - reach in and try to find the right spot on the wheel and rotate it in the right direction, without hitting any of the other buttons. Or, try to press the pause/next/previous buttons. Not too easy, is it?

    Ideally, there would be a volume slider and the three playback buttons on the top of the unit, between the hold switch and the remote adapter on the Mini. The hold switch is too big anyway, and could be rotated 90 degrees so so that it moves front-to-back, with no loss of usability.

    Yes, I know you can get an aftermarket remote-control dongle from Apple that does this, but have you looked at those? Big, ugly, heavy things that dangle from the headphones like a tumor. Couldn't they have made something that fit flat against the top of the unit - you know, kind of an elegant design?

    Anyway, I love the unit, but hate the annoyance. It's a small annoyance, but it makes an obvious wart on a really clean design.

    Oh, and the ability to randomize a playlist/album would be absolutely fantastic.
  • How is this news for nerds or even stuff that matters? It's an opinion piece by some guy that is an Apple fan and runs an MP3 new site. It's fluff.
  • With the demise of Suprnova [slashdot.org], I think we're all losers.
  • Has anyone seen that new poster advertising the IP Addresses of everyone they sued? Keep in mind they're getting at least a couple thousand dollars from each of those IP's, and there are quite a few of them.

    All it really takes is a shitty-ass lawyer to take a couple hours (10 at very most) of his time to print some data, send a nasty letter to an ISP, send a nasty letter home, and BOOM, 3-4 figures of instant revenue.

    Although the amount of simultaneous p2p users may not have been affected that much,
    • I disagree, I think that they are losing. For one thing, the lawyers are getting paid, even if they're on a payroll rather than hourly, they're being taken away from other things they could be doing. Not to mention, due to all of this bad publicity, they are taking a cut in sales. Despite a yearly growth of 3(?) percent, in the record industry, their particular labels, especially the main ones, are taking a hit, as people like myself, run from anything they touch, and support the alternatives... They are

  • How can they say this brillant plan didn't work? Here's what I did:

    Bought broken iPod from friend - $5

    Buy Dell's Digital Jukebox - $200

    Send in iPod, recieve rebate + $100

    Sold Jukebox on Ebay + $175

    Final Count = $70 Profit! Thank you Dell!

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