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Television Media

TiVo to Offer SDK 251

Posted by CmdrTaco from the get-your-hack-on dept.
Thomas Hawk writes "TiVo has begun an effort to court third party developers to try and figure out a way to provide additional add on type services to somehow differentiate itself from the satellite and cable providers that are presently nipping at their heels. Initially the company plans to release three add ons: a weather information plug in, an RSS reader and a game. David Pogue of the New York Times is out with some of the features [NYT=Check soul at door] that at present already make TiVo a superior offering to the cable and satellite freebies. "
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TiVo to Offer SDK More

TiVo to Offer SDK

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  • We have a Tivo and a Cox DVR (Score:5, Interesting)

    by richardoz ( 529837 ) * on Monday January 31, 2005 @08:44AM (#11527483) Homepage
    I have to say that the Tivo wins the usability contest hands down. Even though the Cox box has the ability to record two channels at once, I prefer my Tivo.

    The GUI is intuitive to operate - it took my wife no time to figure it out. As for the Cox box, well we haven't even figured out how to delete a show we are watching without fast forwarding to the end - to get the "special menu".


    • Re:We have a Tivo and a Cox DVR (Score:4, Informative)

      by FredThompson ( 183335 ) <fredthompson@mindsprin g . com> on Monday January 31, 2005 @09:06AM (#11527616)
      Nothing prevents you from having more than one TiVo. DTiVos have 2 tuners and balance the ToDo list between them.

      Yes, the UI is superior to all the competitors. Hack the box to get TivoWebPlus and JavaHMO on it and you're cooking.

      RSS has been available for quite a while. Weather, sports stats, caller ID, stodck info and headlines have been available for a few years.

      Some form of ToDo list killer based on matches from a list would be great. IOW, run the internal priority process then remove from the ToDo list those entries which match the list.

      Parsing the song data from the music channels and pulling the album cover from allmusic or Amazon and putting that on the screen along with persistent album and song title would be nice instead of the stupid blackout.

      Shoutcast support including serving across a LAN would be cool. Yeah, like the music mafia wouldn't have a cow over that one...

      Theoretically, a web browser could be made but support would have to be for very limited formatting and no motion. Still, wouldn't it be cool to do overlays from IMDB while a movie is on?

      JavaHMO has a tic-tac-toe implementation but the hardware isn't capable of sophisticated graphics. You could do nethack but that's about it.

      IR keyboard support would be great, especially when searching by titles. That would also allow text-only adventure games. Heh, 20 years later and we go back to 40-column text adventure games.

      PiP isn't really supported but maybe some kind of text IM with buddies as text overlay on the lower third of the screen would be possible. Would require keyboard support, though.

      Well, OK, if we've come that far, blog overlay.
    • I have to say that the Tivo wins the usability contest hands down. Even though the Cox box has the ability to record two channels at once, I prefer my Tivo.

      The GUI is intuitive to operate - it took my wife no time to figure it out. As for the Cox box, well we haven't even figured out how to delete a show we are watching without fast forwarding to the end - to get the "special menu".

      I've never used a Tivo, but I recently got the Cox HDTV DVR and its usability is very impressive. At least for my DVR to ge
      • It is hard to appreciate the ease of use of a Tivo until you use it. I have had a Tivo for over a year and recently got a timewarner HD PVR (Explorer 8300HD). Tivo has a simple remote and VERY intuitive software. My 7 year old mastered it without any trouble. This "new" cable DVR, while it seems to be good hardware (HDMI, dual tuners, etc.) has the worst software I've seen. The remote has a button for every function, the majority of which don't do anything unless you are in a specific part of the menu

    • Re:We have a Tivo and a Cox DVR (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @09:38AM (#11527894) Homepage
      unfortunately you are in the minority.

      Rumor has it that a couple of larger cable companies are looking at starting a "trade-in" program on tivo's.

      trade in your tivo and get 2 dual tuner HD dvr boxes for free as well as 3 months of free HD/extended premium tier service.

      this will pretty much destroy the TiVo when it happens. I love my Replay box, but the dual tuner motorola DVR box records digital channels far better and easier than Tivo or Replay can ever hope to... The advantage of having the decoding and descrambling hardware in the box is huge. While the "cable card" ready tivo is years away.
      • this will pretty much destroy the TiVo when it happens. I love my Replay box, but the dual tuner motorola DVR box records digital channels far better and easier than Tivo or Replay can ever hope to... The advantage of having the decoding and descrambling hardware in the box is huge. While the "cable card" ready tivo is years away.

        The outboard cable TiVo is doomed. As superior as the software is, it cannot compete with dual tuner HD cable boxes that are now available in most markets for a few bucks extra o
        • Well, if they were smart (they being Apple) they'd just buy TiVo.
          • Well, if they were smart (they being Apple) they'd just buy TiVo

            I'm not sure what that really buys Apple, unless TiVo has patents critical to making a well-designed DVR. After all, Apple is fully capable of developing user-friendly software on their own. Apple's brand-name recognition is at least as good as Tivo's. And getting Tivo's current money-losing business hardly seems like a big plus. It's a new world when the CableCard standard comes in, anyway.
    • Even though the Cox box has the ability to record two channels at once, I prefer my Tivo.

      We have a Philips DSR6000 DirecTV Tivo receiver and it records two channels at once when connected to a dual channel dish. It also has a built in multiplexor which allows another DirecTV unit display one channel while the TiVo displays/records another.

      The only thing it lacks (our unit, at least) is a second video output which would let us use PIP (picture-in-picture) capability of our TV; it has multiple connector

    • If tivo wants a new killer feature, this is one I seriously desire. I've read about a technology where one can playback speech at higher speed without the pitch shift. Drop a frame now and then, and you have a capability that some TV stations use to shorten a show so they can add more commercials. Do it a bit and nobody notices.

      I, however, would like to see this as a capability of tivo, with a variable speed acceleration throttle. I'd like to watch talk shows and news shows at higher speed. It'll be a big t

    • I've had a TiVo for over a year and recently got digital cable and the DVR from Cox. I have to say that TiVo has spoiled me. The Scientific Atlanta Explorer from Cox is laughably inferior. It can't handle "season passes" properly. Searching for shows takes forever; there is no searching by title and then displaying all upcoming episodes; no "wishlist" capability. If it is already in the middle of recording a show, you can't tell it to start playing the show from the beginning. It doesn't warn you if y
      • It can't handle "season passes" properly.

        Not having a Tivo, I don't really know what makes a 'season pass' special. If it could do something like transparently pull down episodes that I missed six weeks ago, it might be worth it.

        The Cox DVR will record by series with several options (first run, reruns, on any channel, etc) Unfortunately its too stupid to know that the SciFi channel airs the good stuff twice, so I always get two of everthing.

        Searching for shows takes forever; there is no searching by

  • Tivo's popular because of non-technical people. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by bigtallmofo ( 695287 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @08:45AM (#11527488)
    Every technical person knows how great Tivo is, and further how open and extensible it is, etc. But that isn't what makes Tivo popular or successful. It's the average non-technical person that discovered Tivo and was willing to pay a fee per month to digitally record their shows. Now that cable and satellite is giving such a service away with no extra monthly fee, I'm afraid there's nothing Tivo can do to keep their customer base long-term.

    The SDK and the gizmos that will come out of it will attract a small set of the user base... But that won't sustain the company unfortunately.
    • Actually, after RTFA, I disagree. I think the purpose of releasing a SDK is to foster new innovations. From the article:

      The company is out to show that the TiVo service "is much more than about DVR," said Howard Look, vice president of application and user experience at TiVo. "All the great ideas don't have to come just from us."

      The strategy isn't to address a small community of developers and techs, but rather to generate functionality that can be developed by the Tivo people and pushed to the larger/

      • Re:Tivo's popular because of non-technical people. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by millahtime ( 710421 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @09:07AM (#11527620) Homepage Journal
        Actually, after RTFA, I disagree. I think the purpose of releasing a SDK is to foster new innovations. From the article:

        The company is out to show that the TiVo service "is much more than about DVR," said Howard Look, vice president of application and user experience at TiVo. "All the great ideas don't have to come just from us."

        The strategy isn't to address a small community of developers and techs, but rather to generate functionality that can be developed by the Tivo people and pushed to the larger/non-technical population.

        I highly doubt it. Popularity comes from making it easy to use and marketing/brand naming. Microsoft, AOL and others have shown that to the average joe six pack it's not about innovation.

        • Re:Tivo's popular because of non-technical people. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by crawling_chaos ( 23007 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @09:29AM (#11527804) Homepage
          Popularity comes from making it easy to use and marketing/brand naming. Microsoft, AOL and others have shown that to the average joe six pack it's not about innovation.

          I'm about to do something I never thought I would -- defend AOL. At the time the original AOL was released, it was innovative. Nobody else was packaging a bulletin board system that was as friendly or as feature laden. People started to get on to AOL who found Compuserve or the local BBS scene far too intimidating.

          The Internet sort of drove a stake in to that model, and it can be argued that AOL hasn't done any innovation lately (except in the creative marketing and creative accounting fields), but the original product took off because it was something different from what was already out there. Isn't that innovation by definition?

          TiVo seems to be in a similar boat. They've brought a technology to the masses that only the truly geeky could have had before. The real question is can TiVo find a way to add a feature that makes owning a TiVo and paying the service contract worthwhile? And before you say that there is nothing out there, remember that many analysts didn't think TiVo would make it this far, as everyone already owned a VCR to tape Friends.

        • True. But if TiVo gets enough street cred, then you will hear comparisons between "TiVo" and the "stuff which came with the Cable". If that comparison is made by the general public, TiVo won.

          For that to happen, TiVo needs to provide some cool features to keep the public impressed. Here they simply let the public do the product development, and when something good comes of it, they will support it, and sell it as a feature that "the thing that came with cable" will not have.

          Which brings into their long ter
    • Which cable companies give them away?

      Definitely not Comcast. I believe it's an extra $15 a month.

  • I guess someone at TiVo downloaded Mythtv (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Zapdos ( 70654 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @08:47AM (#11527494)
    Myth Check
    Weather... Yes
    News...... Yes
    Games..... Yes

    • Re:I guess someone at TiVo downloaded Mythtv (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Mr Guy ( 547690 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @08:50AM (#11527511) Journal
      And while we're at it (To give them some more ideas)

      Myth Check
      DVD Playback - Yes
      DVD Ripping - Yes
      Picture Gallery - Yes
      Music Jukebox - Yes
      Easy web configuration - Yes
      • Why stop there?

        Direct satellite signal recording
        Myth NOPE!!!
        TiVo Yes

        DirecTV with TiVo receivers store the actual satellite signal, not a captured version of an analog signal. Most of what you credit to Myth is really a PC with a video out card. May as well claim Myth supports RAR, WMP, QT, Flash, etc. ad nauseum.
        • Actually, let's build on the video-out idea.

          hacked TiVos support Media Portal for XBox or PC. [url]http://mediaportal.sourceforge.net/[/url]

          I've got 3 DTiVos and a video-out PC in the same system. Combine them with Girder and a decent A/V receiver to get something really nice.

          It's also possible to hack the Sony disc carousels to serve tystreams.

          TiVo and TivoWeb (regular or Plus) offer remote access to almost all the onscreen commands. You can set recordings, delete recordings, change priorities for the
        • Most of what you credit to Myth is really a PC with a video out card.

          And what do you think a TiVo is?
        • If one truly cares, this can probably be done by opening the receiver and tapping the mpeg stream straight after the tuner/decrypter, and then running that into a firewire port.

          I am sure someone already has sites about it. But I am too lazy, and someone else will probably reply with links.

      • Re:I guess someone at TiVo downloaded Mythtv (Score:4, Interesting)

        by dr_canak ( 593415 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @09:26AM (#11527770)
        "Picture Gallery - Yes
        Music Jukebox - Yes
        Easy web configuration - Yes"

        These are already available in the Series 2 Tivo's. I finally got around to getting a proper USB network adapter (a couple are officially supported, several are reported to work, but unfortunately most are still a no-go).

        Anyway, it took 5 minutes to get my TIVO networked and start sharing photos and music files from one of my desktop p.c.s. Really nice actually, and with the TIVO wired through the home stereo, works quite nicely. There are other features I wish it had (like the ability to save and load pre-set song lists), but maybe that will come with time.

        I did quite a bit of research into building my own PVR/Myth box, but it seemed that cost and time to set up just was too prohibitive, despite all the additional features that come with building you own. With Myth, my impression is that even the most tech savy have to put forth some effort to get the thing completly streamlined and working flawlessly. To TIVO's credit, it really is a very simple plug and play device. And aside from adding an additional harddrive, the cost of TIVO with the monthly fee is still quite a bit less than building a dedicated PVR/Myth box. And as another user pointed out, my wife who is not the most tech savy had Tivo figured out in no time. With the added benefit of remote programming from work, she's thrilled.

        And on a somewhat related note, as a shareholder in Redhat, this is the kind of stuff where Linux is the future and gets me excited; writing custom apps for proprietary hardware. It just seems like there is so much potential there. I'm glad to see TIVO offer up an SDK to keep the features coming.

        jeff
    • it must be exhausting to stay up on that high horse all the time...

      i like my tivo. it cost less than a new pc and a new tuner card would cost, at least in the short term.

      • Lets do the apples and apples thing.

        The tivo machine you can get ~$100 after some rebates. Now lets add in a lifetime subscription fee of $300 and an upgraded drive that any PC user would have which is 160 gig for $100. Now we have apples to compare against a PC which make it a conservative $500 for the Tivo machine.

        I just built a HTPC using a cheap MATX board for $50, got the hard drive $100, case $50 processor $150, memory 1gig $150, capture card $50. For a grand total of $500 and best yet this machin
        • I think the biggest factor that you leave out is that for the $400-500 (depending on whether you get the increased HD or not), the TiVo works out of the box, while you'd still have to install, configure and maintain/update MythTV and the OS on the box you just built.

          Some people may want to do it, but just won't be able. And for others the TiVo might be a step towards MythTV or other DVR's. I don't think you can beat the 'appliance' factor that TiVo introduces.

  • Not impressive (Score:2, Insightful)

    by crunk ( 844923 )
    Initially the company plans to release three add ons: a weather information plug in, an RSS reader and a game.

    Does anybody really want an RSS reader or a game on their Tivo? Seriously, who is going to play a game on the Tivo, or purchase a Tivo because of these features?

    A cool feature would be a network interface you could use to access your saved shows via the computer.

    • its an SDK. since when does an SDK do anything useful other than show you how to do things with the SDK?

      They're not features for everyone, they're examples. That's part of what SDKs do, give examples.

    • A cool feature would be a network interface you could use to access your saved shows via the computer.

      -

      That's been solved for quite a while. Streams can be served across a network many ways. There's even a low bandwidth method which re-encodes so slow networks or those portable video players can show the files.
    • Does anybody really want an RSS reader or a game on their Tivo?

      A RSS reader would be very cool if it had a web browser as well. Also, RSS could be the next way (or even current way) that the TV channel info is provided.

      Seriously, who is going to play a game on the Tivo, or purchase a Tivo because of these features?

      Millions of people put up with Windows only because they want to play games.

      A cool feature would be a network interface you could use to access your saved shows via the computer.

      I havn'

  • Question (Score:3, Interesting)

    by JamesD_UK ( 721413 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @08:52AM (#11527522) Homepage
    Does anyone know if obtaining the SDK requires the agreement to an NDA or similar license agrement as some other SDKs do? It would be nice if the SDK does not preclude the writing of Free Software.

    I mention this as I've had difficulties in the past developing software for platforms only documented inside a NDA 'protected' SDK.

    • Re:Question (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      You can get the SDK here no NDA required:

      http://tivohme.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]

      It is Open Source, includes full source for the samples and the SDK itself.
    • "Does anyone know if obtaining the SDK requires the agreement to a NDA..."

      Judging by the fact that they say it will be based on Java and hosted on SourceForge I would guess not.

  • For who ? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by mirko ( 198274 )
    TiVo was invented for people to busy to be able to attend complete tv shows.
    Now,if they cannot afford to watch these, how come they have enough time to program it ?

  • I'm in... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bblazer ( 757395 ) * on Monday January 31, 2005 @08:56AM (#11527554) Homepage Journal
    I have both a Tivo and a DVR supplied by Time Werner. Tivo wins hands down. I would be one of the first in line to get the SDK and start writing some apps for it. It would be cool to see a web site with a ton of free (as in beer) and pay apps to download to extend the functionality of the Tivo. If they opened it up, you might even see better bug releases. While this type of thing may not lead to a company's survival by itself, it may open the door to a new way to market the product (as in "Hey everybody, buy Tivo and you can download a lot of cool stuff to make it work how YOU want it to work!).
    • While I have never used a hardware DVR that wasn't Tivo I must say that there are plenty of things that really irk me about my Tivo...

      1. Tivo released this supposed software update to be able to use Tivo2Go. I signed up as soon as I saw it available and I still have yet to receive the Tivo upgrade to my unit.

      2. Tivo service has been spotty for getting listings. I have been getting days and days worth of "Failed while negotiating" errors. Yeah it might not matter but I wouldn't know as I rarely watch
  • Without the ability to natively interface with proprietary cable and satellite providers TIVO is toast.

    • Never heard of DirecTiVo?

      Also I hear that FreeVo and MythTV are doing fairly well, even if the most vocal of their supporters seem to be elitists.. and they don't even have corporate backing at all, or native interfaces with cable or satelite!

      Yeah you're right. TiVo is toast. I mean just look at all the other DVR companies that have gone down in flames because they're not integrated with cable. There's Replay.. no they're still around.. there's ... hmm. There aren't any.
      • Haven't you heard, DirecTV and Tivo are breaking up.
        http://www.betanews.com/article/DirecTV_TiVo _ Partn ership_in_Doubt/1105115186

        And FreeVo and MythTV are doing great as niches. Maybe Tivo will do great as a niche too.

        Most people in the coming years are going to want HD content from their cable and satellite providers. That will require proprietary set-top boxes that will not natively interface with TIVOs.

        Cable and satellite companies will require their own proprietary DVRs to consumers that want them
        • Most people in the coming years are going to want HD content from their cable and satellite providers. That will require proprietary set-top boxes that will not natively interface with TIVOs.

          That is why Tivo is working on a CableCard TiVo. You won't need a cable box to work with a multi-tuner TiVo box for this. Once the cable companies are required to support CableCard 2.0, it won't be an issue.
        • Think about that. Are you seriously proposing DirecTV is going to cut off everyone with DirecTiVo hardware? That doesn't make any sense. They're still advertising the DirecTiVos units daily on DirecTV. What does that tell you?
        • Cable and satellite companies will require their own proprietary DVRs to consumers that want them. TIVO will be toast because it will not even be given a chance to compete.

          And I would vote with my wallet and NOT support such companies. If there were any shows I desperately HAD to have, I'd either ask my friend to tape it (last I checked that wasn't something you could be sued for if you kept it offline) or buy their season DVD (possibly off ebay).

          What's next? Cable companies requiring you to use thei
    • Without the ability to natively interface with proprietary cable and satellite providers TIVO is toast.

      DirecTiVo handles this well for satellite (yes, it would be nicer if there were an open standard here and it would work well w/ competitors). Q4 this year/Q1 next year the dual tuner CableCARD TiVo will be out. CableCARD's are required by law by cable providers (in the 'states) and allow you to tune into digital cable.

      There ya go.

  • Comcast = not free DVR (Score:3, Interesting)

    by FubarPA ( 670436 ) <brad@fuba[ ].com ['rpa' in gap]> on Monday January 31, 2005 @09:09AM (#11527637) Homepage
    A little off-topic, but when I checked into it, Comcast wanted to charge me 10 dollars on top of everything else for DVR functionality.

    • A little off-topic, but when I checked into it, Comcast wanted to charge me 10 dollars on top of everything else for DVR functionality.

      While it is true that Cable companies do not provide free DVD's, is this really an issue? Comparing "apples to apples", TiVo requires a $99 or more up front cost for the equipment, and then requires either a monthly fee (which is typically higher than what Cable companies charge for their DVR) or a "lifetime" fee that costs an equvalent of two years of monthly fees. Furthe

  • Wow! Really? (Score:3, Informative)

    by NardofDoom ( 821951 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @09:10AM (#11527646)
    I could make a MAME plugin! I could rip my DVDs to the hard drive for personal video on demand! I could stream video to computers or TiVos all around my house!

    Or I could build a MythTV [mythtv.org] system and get all of these things and not pay a monthly fee.

    • Re:Wow! Really? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Naikrovek ( 667 ) <jjohnson&psg,com> on Monday January 31, 2005 @09:16AM (#11527676)
      yeah you can have your mythtv do all of that. for no monthly fee yes.

      but the initial cost of your mythtv box is at least 10x what the initial cost of a tivo is. that's a large barrier of entry.

      computer with dvd burner, large hard disk, tuner cards, video card with tv-out, costs a lot more than a tivo.

      very tired of this 'mythtv is better than everything else in the whole wide world, and if you don't use it you are an idiot' business that is going on here.
      • I'm not saying it's better for everyone, I'm saying it's better for me. And if you do it right it won't cost you more than $200 and you have the capability to upgrade your system and extend it. Anyone who *can* make a MythTV box is better off making one.

        At least until broadcast flag comes out.

      • You, personally, may be an idiot, but I don't think what people (like myself) who love their MythTV are saying is that people are idiots. I think what we're saying is that the point of many recent articles is that Tivo faces a very real chance of getting pushed out of the market, and then you very well might be screwed.

        Meanwhile, an open source alternative exists at a similiar price point (Assuming you have to buy everything from scratch).

        Here's what I see for a Tivo:
        $99 refurb from tivo.com 80 hours wit
        • Does that include an easy to use IR remote? Sorry, I know I could go look at the Hauppauge devices online myself (and probably will), but as long as we're talking about TCO and building a comparable box. My Tivo, without an easy to use remote, just wouldn't be a Tivo.
          • PVR150's can come either with or without remote. Typically without they run about 10 bucks cheaper. I personally went the do it yourself route with the universal remote I already use and built a little IR receiver with parts from radioshack using a design from the web.

            Here's a rough overview: Lirc Homebrew page [lirc.org]

            But there are more user friendly step by step guides out there. Takes about ten minutes to do if you're a complete novice with a soldering iron and circuit boards like I am, and about 10 buck
        • Generic case: $20
          Hauppauge PVR 150 x2: $150
          Generic mobo: $35
          256 megs of RAM: $30
          AMD 2200+: $70
          GeForce MX4000 (For Svideo out): $30
          Harddrive (120GB ~240 Hours@Tivo Quality): $70

          $405

          163 hours of time to get the damn thing working: $8965

          Total cost: $9370

      • Although your 10X initial cost is little high... Don't forget about the cost of electricity. A PC will consume alot more than a Tivo box.

  • Check soul at door? (Score:2, Informative)

    by shreevatsa ( 845645 )
    [NYT=Check soul at door]
    Not with Bugmenot (http://www.bugmenot.com/ [bugmenot.com])
    And if you are using Firefox (as you should be ;), look here http://extensions.roachfiend.com/index.php#bugmeno t [roachfiend.com]
    • You me bugmenot works again?
    • This is so stupid. Dear Slashdot, if you're going to piss off at them every time you post one of their stories, why don't you just get a couple hundred reporters and pay them a SALARY and source your OWN stories, huh?

      Yes, they have an obvious liberal bias, but it is the NEW YORK Times, and you can just read around it. But Slashdot and most every newspaper in the country uses their material.

      Give it a break.
    • NYT has a fuckthis/fuckthis logon. So have lots of other soul-sucker sites. Use them freely! If you find a site that doesn't, please add it.

      NB, some have fuckthis/fuckthis2,3,4 etc. This is for the rare occasions when sites require updated passwords.

      J.

  • My Cox PVR wins hands down (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jocknerd ( 29758 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @09:13AM (#11527662)
    Just got it 3 weeks ago and for the money, TiVo has no chance in the long run. $10 a month for Cox's PVR. I was paying $13 a month just for TiVo's download of the programming. Plus recording 2 shows at once is huge. If TiVo had never made the Series 2 next to impossible to get the recorded stuff off of it, I would have stayed with it. But they gave in to Hollywood and the TV industry so screw them.
  • ...until I can actually buy a new set of tivo hardware here in the uk, why would I care about being able to develop for it?

    I really want one, too, but don't fancy going down the 2nd hand route :(
  • This is what would really make TiVo compatible for the /. crowd: release the TiVo proprietary stuff binary only (so they won't have their pay scheme broken [although you can already get around it {Canada/Mexico}]), with an SDK for attaching to it. Then I can build my own TiVo box a la MythTV or Freevo, but with the superior TiVo interface. Then we can support everything else we can manage to write software for on the platform.

    Are the series 2 TiVos still PPC based, or have they moved to x86 or something el

  • Tvs (Score:4, Interesting)

    by cparisi ( 136611 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @09:20AM (#11527710) Homepage
    TiVo should get bundled with TV's. You can get any closer to the target market than that.

  • I have Comcast and have tried their version of the DVR, and there is absolutely no comparison between that and TiVo. There's no doubt that the cable/satellite companies have 'mastered' recording of shows, but half of TiVo is the UI, and it's simplicity. The Comcast DVR that I had was horrendous. It was slow, difficult to use, froze, crashed, etc, etc, etc. I had it for a week and sent it back. I then bought another refurbished TiVo, threw 2, 80 GB hard drives in there and I'm back in business and I'm never
    • Sending recordings from one box to another is provided through HMO or the hacked variants. You can also server streams from a PC or Mac to TiVos. Want something really cool? Set up one of the modified Sony 400-disc carousels with a DVD reader on a PC and serve streams to your TiVos. How's that for a jukebox?

  • Game emulation. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by LWATCDR ( 28044 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @09:23AM (#11527732) Homepage Journal
    Why not make a deal with who ever owns Atari and Sega to put game emulators on the Tivo. Retro gaming is all the rage these days. Throw in MAME just for fun and you are good to go.

  • I love 'em, but they've missed the boat. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Overzeetop ( 214511 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @09:37AM (#11527882) Journal
    The cool things that you can do directly with TiVo, and all the really cool things you can do with hacks (and roll-your-own PVRs for that matter) are the things that the studios don't want you to do. TiVo has the bonus of being able to be operated by just about anyone. This MATTERS! I want something my wife is comfortable with, and is pretty darned stable. Moreover, if something goes wrong and her show gets missed, it damned well better no be my fault. This rules out anything but a consumer box in my house. The ability to let the tech savvy strip/rip/burn to their hearts content means the whole family can play.

    I'm frustrated that TiVo lets their name be used on DirecTV sets, as the gap between the real TiVo and the locked-down, abandoned, ugly step-child of receiver they call DirecTiVo grows almost daily. I have one, and it does everything my old standalone did...four years ago. Yes, it's cheaper (no dialups to wory about). Yes it records two streams (a feature lacking in the SA). But if you look at the comparison of features on their own website, it pales in comparison to the new features of the SA models. And even the SAs are missing some key features (real transfers, real commercial skip, cut points for recording, etc.).

    They're caught between a rock and a hard place - consumers who will leave them if they protect the content, and studios who will sue them into oblivion if they don't. I think they've chosen the wrong path for long term success. *shrug* (BTW, the embeded DVD recorder versions do look promising, but -once again - they're not available for DTV)

  • Its a losing battle. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tgd ( 2822 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @09:44AM (#11527945)
    I had Tivo since a few months after it came out. Four total boxes, also gave another four or five as gifts over the years.

    I called last week and cancelled my service. (Boy they make that hard to do...)

    Why? They're two years behind the ball where technology is concerned. Their vastly superior interface is totally wasted because it can't actually record half the stuff I watch. Its a hack at best to get it to work with a digital cable box, and no HD support at all. They told me all about the new HD box they would have out in 18 months when I cancelled, and I just had to wonder why it wasn't out now? My TV has CableCard. Clearly Sony was able to see it was a needed step to take.

    I've seen arguments made my people on /. that Tivo couldn't have been faster to the market because CableCard just became available, forgetting thats to consumers. Clearly the companies have been working on units for ages.

    I may hop back into the Tivo fold if their new box lives up to reasonable expectations, but its hard to argue with a $10/month box with dual HD/digital/analog tuners, 160 gig of space and a tolerable UI now that Comcast has rolled out the new TV Guide software.

    I think the SDK is a poor attempt to keep the attention of their core market -- early adopters, because early adopters have all adopted other video hardware that makes the Tivo obsolete.

    I'm not sure the ability to see an RSS feed or weather on the Tivo will keep someone who just dropped $3k on a HD set interested in Tivo, when they can get a box from their cable company for less money that works with it.
    • Uh...you do know the DirecTV HD boxes are out and work with the extraction tools, don't you?
    • I couldn't agree more with you. No real HD; no AAC -- despite a partnership with Apple for, what, two years?; no TiVo 2 Go yet (I've been on the "priority list" for over a month); charging for HMO then giving it away free to those who chose not to support TiVo by paying for it -- without refunds to those that did; and now from what I hear, DirecTV is pulling out, which I expect to be a death blow.

      As soon as I buy an HD set, my TiVo is likely to be ancient history. Too bad, since I've had them since the o
    • Check this list of missing features:

      Megazone's Tivo Feature Wishlist [megazone.org]

      Most of these Tivo could and should have been added years ago, but they have instead wasted resources on stuff like HMO and PC2Go. Not that those things aren't somehow valuable, but they're much better as farmed out SDK items than as Tivo-produced.

      Tivo has also failed to see their hardware line as a source of profitability. It's kind of pathetic that as a geek I can't justify buying a new standalone 3 years after buying my first. At
  • I don't know about Cox and other cable companies, but I have Time Warner's DVR in upstate New York. I know a few people who moved out of the area after having the Time Warner box, and, naturally being hooked on PVR, immediately bought a Tivo. They were disappointed.

    They cited two things: First, Time Warner's Scientific American box can record one show while you're watching another on TV. Better yet, it can record TWO shows while you're watching one you've already recorded! And you get full transport
    • Another advantage that Time Warner's DVRs have over Tivo is the option of viewing/recording HDTV. Tivo's current plans for HDTV are to get something out by 2006! Now, you probably can't record very much HDTV content (20 hours is what they say) but at least they give you the option of having it.

      We just got a projector to serve as part of our home theater and I'm not sure how long I'll be able to live with Tivo and standard television when I know that HDTV content is available.

      --
      It works. [wired.com]
      Free Flat [freeflatscreens.com]

  • Moxi, a viable contender (Score:3, Informative)

    by jbarr ( 2233 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @09:55AM (#11528025) Homepage
    After using a Digeo Moxi [digeo.com] box for several months, I really feel that the likes of TiVo and ReplayTV have huge hurdles against them. I am a long-time ReplayTV user, and though I chose ReplayTV over TiVo, I certainly respect and even envy TiVo's design and imp0lementation. TV viewing without SOME sort of DVR is, to me, a huge step backward.

    That said, the Moxi box is certainly not without its foults, and while I absolutely miss the ability to offload shows to my PC (thus I keep my ReplayTV 5000 running) the simple fact is that Moxi's integrated dual digital cable tuners, (eliminating virtually all scheduling conflicts) its ability to record HD programs, its inclusion of games, a Ticker (Weather, News, Sports, etc.) and forthcoming Video On Demand for under $10.00 per month with no up-front equipment costs blows the doors offf of TiVo or ReplayTV hands-down. Joe Sixpack isn't going to care if a feature or two are missing as long as he gets a high "cool factor" at a low price, and DVR's like Moxi deliver.

  • Why this is big... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by graiz ( 647982 )
    This is big news because it allows third party developers to create applications that play on the TV. This means that existing applications writers can extend the Tivo platform.
    - Play your powerpoint slides on a TV
    - Control your home automation on your TV
    - Check your baby-monitor on your TV
    - Get stock quotes on your TV

    Any application that currently runs on a PC can explore opportunities to provide a TV based user experience. It's not about the three demo apps that are included. (Weather, ne

  • What is the purpose of any technology company? To get bought by *.soft before they get copied by *.soft. In order to do that, you just have to come up with something that Chairman Bill doesn't want to pay his R&D dept to do themselves.

    One compelling feature is all you need. Like the Tivo interface. If you keep going after that, youre just trying to compete with *.soft, starting at a huge disadvantage.

    Its sad. The days of starting your own tech company are over. Now we are all just inventors. If
  • It seems like a no-brainer to me -- every time we watch a movie, DVD, TiVo, whatever, we run to IMDB to look up all kinds of info on all the actors, the writers, etc.

    It would also be a good way for them to pick up some ad revenue as well, I think....
  • I think it's grasping for straws at this point. Microsoft has offered all three of these "toys" through it's Media Center Edition software for over a year. People do not buy entertainment DVRs because they have weather forcasts on them or an RSS reader. The games they might offer could not compete with the richer gaming experience found elsewhere. TiVo missed the mark by wasting the last year working on TiVoToGo which is useable by less than half of their subscribers (Series 1 and DirecTV users can't us
  • Context Setting: I'm a big fan of Tivo.

    I would like to see:
    Music Playback control thru 802 enabled palm or pocketpcs!

    Ability to play music with TV turned off

    Use Tivo as web brower

  • I have a basic Dish PVR, a relative has a Tivo. The difference in used functionality comes down to two features. The Tivo usefully can skip recording if a show is not on that week; the Dish is stupid about that. The Dish can quickly skip commercials with its 30-seconds-forward and 10-seconds back buttons. The Tivo requires entering a secret code after every software upgrade to restore the (by default turned off) skip-forward function, and fiddling with the skip-foward and fast-forward/reverse buttonss to sk
    • I've owned and used both. Your relative has some options here. The first is easy, just turn off the sounds. It's available in the configuration menu. I like them set low, but not off. Some have different prefferences. The other involves hacking, but you can make the 30-second skip the default. If you don't want to do that, a remote macro can make it simple to turn back on if you have a remote capable of that. The FF w/auto correction is also very fast once you get used it it. I agree that the 30sec skip sho

    • The Tivo has some other minor advantages. But since the main value of these things beyond recording is to skip commercials cleanly, quickly, efficiently, the Dish PVR wins

      You're kidding, right? I got a Dish PVR when they were having a promo ($25). I wanted to compare it to my TiVo, and have the ability to output audio via optical.

      The DishPVR doesn't even have a season pass. When I was watching a a few minutes behind "real time", when the Dish PVR has to record the next show, it would not allow me to con

  • And how long before someone offers a plug-in to restore missing features, like instant commercial skip, sharing recorded programs with other devices, or accessing free channel gude services?

    Just the though of such choices makes me want to consider a Tivo again.

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