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Slashback Books Math Media Robotics

Slashback: Hollywood, Commons, Misidentification 162

Posted by timothy from the multicolored-loch-ness-monster dept.
A handful of updates, corrections and further thoughts on recent Slashdot stories follow; read on for updates on the Real-ID Act, Hollywood consultant math professor Jonathan Farley, the real first losers (and winners of the U.S. Open's Aibo League) at the 2005 Robo-Cup, and more. Details below.

Keeping America strong by making mislabeling the problem! It really isn't too late to avoid the worst of the Real-ID Act, and Bruce Scheier's essay on it should be required reading.

Needs more cowbell! c1one writes "In an update to the story Trent Reznor Challenges Music Norms, there has been an "Unofficial The Hand that Feeds Remix Contest." The contest has produced an extreme range of styles, from Hip-Hop to HeeHaw and even a few lounge versions, to name a few. The point though, is that after listening to almost 400 remixes, some of the tracks rival the level of professionalism and creativity found on some of the "official" halo releases. The contest deadline was 5/5/05 and voting by 20 appointed international judges ranging from a Berklee College of Music graduate and various studio engineers to a former Nothing Studio's intern has commenced. They will determine a top ten list using the "nine inch rating scale" that should be available to entertain and to vote on soon."

Graceful reactions are worth emulating. Author Will Iverson writes with a reaction to Simon Chappell's review of his book Apache Jakarta Commons :

"Hi Guys!

I would just like to respond regarding the Slashdot review as posted:

  1. The book itself is published under an open license - the material in the book will be available as a free electronic download in a few months.
  2. Yes, the last 125 pages *is* (for all intents and purposes) the printed javadoc. This was included at the request of the publisher, and it is valuable for some people.
So... I don't know how negatively the review was influenced by the inclusion of the Apache material, but it is entirely above-board per the Apache license and essentially reciprocal - I'm giving the material in the book back to the community via a free license to download the material.

Oh, and as an FYI, book writing is hardly a cash cow - I only wish. ;)

Cheers & best wishes,

Will Iverson

A classic case of Americans all looking alike. Of the post "German Robot Dogs Dominate 2005 RoboCup U.S. Open," Ethan Tira-Thompson writes "The linked article has it wrong -- the German team played CMU, not UT Austin. Major screwup on the AP's part, but they don't say who wrote the original article! "

Here's an excerpt from the team's CMU team's announcement:

From: Manuela Veloso Date: May 10, 2005 2:51:14 PM EDT To: scs-all@cs.cmu.edu Subject: US Open Champs :-)

Hi,

We won the RoboCup US Open, in the AIBO league. We played UPenn in the final and won 2-1 in overtime. UPenn (Dan Lee) and UT Austin (Peter Stone) came second and third, playing very well and very close to us. They are great teams. Our team, CMDash'05 still has a long way to go to better prepare for the Internationl RoboCup in Japan in July :-)

Please congratulate the complete team for the USOpen victory:

Sonia Chernova, team leader, CSD PhD student, robot behaviors, motion learning Colin McMillen, CSD PhD student, teamwork, networking, goalie Paul Rybski, RI PostDoc, state estimation, multi-robot world modeling, behaviors Juan Fasola, CSD junior, vision, defender, behaviors, motion Felix vonHundelshausen, CSD PostDoc, vision Alex Trevor, CSD senior, vision Sabine Hauert, exchange CS Master student from Switzerland, localization, behaviors Raquel Ros Espinoza, visitor from Barcelona, behaviors, vision

and with the help at the Open of the veterans: Doug Vail, CSD PhD student, vision James Bruce, CSD PhD student, vision, motion"

Hey, they got most of it right. A Harvard Crimson story linked from a Slashdot post headlined "Mathematicians Become Hollywood Consultants" described Jonathan Farley, a math professor who co-founded a consulting agency to help Hollywood get mathematics right in movies an television shows. Farley wrote to point out that his neither a Harvard post-doctoral fellow nor a professor at the State University of New York at Buffalo, writing "I am not and never have been either. (I am a tenured professor elsewhere and have been for several years.) This was an incorrect statement initially made by poor reporters at the Harvard University student newspaper. " Farley points to this Boston Globe story which gets it right.

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Slashback: Hollywood, Commons, Misidentification More

Slashback: Hollywood, Commons, Misidentification

Comments Filter:

  • -1, REDUNDANT (Score:5, Funny)

    by Seumas ( 6865 ) on Thursday May 12, 2005 @08:02PM (#12514811)
    A handful of updates, corrections and further thoughts on recent Slashdot stories follow; read on for updates on the Real-ID Act, Hollywood consultant math professor Jonathan Farley, the real first losers (and winners of the U.S. Open's Aibo League) at the 2005 Robo-Cup, and more. Details below.A handful of updates, corrections and further thoughts on recent Slashdot stories follow; read on for updates on the Real-ID Act, Hollywood consultant math professor Jonathan Farley, the real first losers (and winners of the U.S. Open's Aibo League) at the 2005 Robo-Cup, and more. Details below.

    WAY TO GO SLASHDOT!

    No longer are duplicate stories enough. Nor are duplicate stories on the same day or within the same hour. No, NOW WE DUPLICATE THE STORY WITHIN ITSELF!

    Congratulations!

    • Re:-1, REDUNDANT (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Well since this blurb isn't really about anything in particular, the post I'm writing right now can't be offtopic, right?

    • Re:-1, REDUNDANT (Score:5, Funny)

      by thinkliberty ( 593776 ) on Thursday May 12, 2005 @08:19PM (#12514939)
      They did this dupe so they would not have to dupe the article later.

      If they can keep the dupes down to a single post it's a start!
    • Haven't you ever heard of signal redundancy? Clearly the /. editors consider the web (or readers' brains) to be a lossy transmission medium, and are taking appropropriate steps to insure successful transmission.

    • Re:-1, REDUNDANT (Score:5, Funny)

      by mangu ( 126918 ) on Thursday May 12, 2005 @08:29PM (#12515003)
      NOW WE DUPLICATE THE STORY WITHIN ITSELF!


      No, the answer is simpler than that. You see, they are running Linux, which runs X-Window. In X, you select some text and click the middle mouse button on another window to paste your selection. However, the mid-button is less used than the left one, so the contacts get dirty. When they clicked the mid button, the dirty contacts bounced and registered two clicks, so the selected text was pasted twice.

      • Re:-2, REDUNDANT (Score:3, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        NOW WE DUPLICATE THE STORY WITHIN ITSELF!

        No, the answer is simpler than that. You see, they are running Linux, which runs X-Window. In X, you select some text and click the middle mouse button on another window to paste your selection. However, the mid-button is less used than the left one, so the contacts get dirty. When they clicked the mid button, the dirty contacts bounced and registered two clicks, so the selected text was pasted twice.

      • Nah! 8^)

        Actually, see, they pasted once, picked up the ringing telephone, and after they ended the conversation, they pasted again, thinking they didn't do it before.

        Since it was already 6PM, they never minded checking the text after it was ready, because this Slashback is a lengthy, worksome article that gets little of the usual user input and ended with this unique paragraph-dupe specimen.

        See? Occam's Razor! This doesn't require the intricacies of the middle-click-bounces-on-tennis-balls-which-bounce

    • Just a Comment (Score:5, Funny)

      by serutan ( 259622 ) <snoopdoug@RABBIT ... minus herbivore> on Thursday May 12, 2005 @08:39PM (#12515080) Homepage
      Just a comment. I wanted to say how much I enjoy reading the stories posted on Slashdot, and participating in the interesting discussions. People express lot of different points of view that I never would have thought of on my own.

      Just a comment. I wanted to say how much I enjoy reading the stories posted on Slashdot, and participating in the interesting discussions. People express lot of different points of view that I never would have thought of on my own.
    • Dupe! [slashdot.org]

    • Re:-1, REDUNDANT (Score:4, Insightful)

      by GrassMunk ( 677765 ) on Thursday May 12, 2005 @09:36PM (#12515423)
      You know what. We're not retarded. We all read and saw that it was a mistake. We dont need 700 threads about how this was a dupe. 1 will do. Infact, 1 is to many, i dont read the comments to hear people bitch about slashdot, im interested in the tidbits of info in the comments.

      You're like the spazz kid at the movie who gets pissed cause his free movie pass was to Electra. Yes its shitty. Don't like it? Don't come here. Maybe if everyone shutup for once we could actually have some decent discussions.

  • All US base are... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Moray_Reef ( 75398 ) on Thursday May 12, 2005 @08:05PM (#12514838) Homepage
    Please lets keep down the "your papers please" posts, these ID's will have RFID, 'they' will be able to check you papers anytime, anyplace. I'm sure putting your ID in an anti-static bag to prevent reading will not be very popular with 'the man.'

    And by the way, I grow more fond of my sig at every posting. ;)
    • I'm sure putting your ID in an anti-static bag to prevent reading will not be very popular with 'the man.'

      Which is why I've been stockpiling aluminum foil.

    • Re:All US base are... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by t_allardyce ( 48447 ) on Thursday May 12, 2005 @08:41PM (#12515094) Journal
      Exactly! In Soviet Russia you show your papers, in George Bush's America, papers show you!

      In the old days you would be asked for your papers and then told to move along, but now they can just tell you to move along, much more efficient.

      • Not Just Soviet Russia (Score:3, Informative)

        by BSDevil ( 301159 )
        I got back from modern Russia yesterday (literally - I was there on holiday for a week) and on four different ocassions I was stopped and asked for my "papers" (AKA my passport).

        The first was walking down the street in St. Petersburg - a pair of cops stopped me, and demanded "papers".

        The second was as I was getting onto the St. Petersburg metro (I think the station was Moskovstaya). There were a whole bunch of OMON soldiers around, and a pair (and a cop) stopped me and asked for my papers.

        The third was w
        • They're just way ahead of us :\ I only wish police would push me up against walls and demand ID, hell I only wish I had some sort of mandatory ID! I put my passport in the wash so I can't even pretend :\ We've all got a long way to go in the rest of the world - when bus drivers don't even want to see your ticket we've got allot of problems to fix.

          WHY!? why can't we enjoy the security and peace of mind that Russia has??
    • > I'm sure putting your ID in an anti-static bag
      > to prevent reading will not be very popular with
      > 'the man.'

      An antistatic bag won't do the job. You really do need tinfoil.
      • Duct tape wallets lined with aluminized mylar should have the desired effect. You will probalby want to drop it into the x-ray basket as you go through airport security, but that's your decision. Besides you already know they are going to ask to see some identification there, so it sholud not be 'unexpected'.

        It's the pulling you off into a dark alley to ask for your papers because they couldn't rf-scan you as you were walking down the street that will probably be the greatest pain.

        -Rusty
      • An antistatic bag won't do the job. You really do need tinfoil.

        Oh great, so if I put this thing in my pocket, now I need timefoil pants.

        At least they will match my hat...
    • I think masking a RFID in your right forearm will come back to haunt anyone who tries to do it. There will obviously be certain sites; e.g. practically any free-standing object which should perform "tracking" tasks - identify those who aren't "showing up". Those will be taken aside to determine why they don't show up on the grid as part of a discussion. If you've removed yours and you're lucky, they'll insert a replacement; if your funnycount exceeds a particular count...perhaps a small scar on the right

    • Re:All US base are... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by jc42 ( 318812 ) on Thursday May 12, 2005 @10:11PM (#12515670) Homepage Journal
      putting your ID in an anti-static bag to prevent reading will not be very popular with 'the man.'

      Probably not. But they'll have to put up with it, for the same reason that they were forced to allow general use of encryption. RealID is an open invitation to identity theft, as is any ID based on RFID. It can be read without you knowing any time you get close to a hidden RFID reader.

      Carrying a RealID card around unshielded makes about as much sense as sending your login/password across the Net in the clear. Anyone with any sense will shield the former, just as they encrypt the latter. No amount of intoning "National Security" will change this.

      Sure, we'll hear lots of reassuring words. But all it'll take is a few reports of stolen RealID info, and reassuring words simply won't work.

      We might note that there are already several RF-shielded wallets for sale in the US. I'll bet that sales will soon increase. And, y'know, my wallet is getting a bit old and worn ...

      • We might note that there are already several RF-shielded wallets for sale in the US.

        I'm in that same boat and therefore actively shopping. Are you at liberty to quote a src or brand name? Prefereably for a truckers style wallet, one big enough to hold not only a rack of card windows, but your checkbook complete with the anti-carbon sheet you place between the check you are writing and the next one down so that you don't write 2 checks when they are NCR (no carbon required) checks.

        I've been using a ladi
        • Just google for "shielded wallet" or "shielded clothes". Lots of hits.

          This sort of product has been for sale for decades. There's nothing particularly secretive about it. Most of them were developed for electronics workers. If you work around electronic equipment, and have credit cards in your pocket, it can be sensible to shield them. If you're wearing a pacemaker, you might also be in the market for a sheilding t-shirt. And so on. The advent of RFID will probably increase the market.

          I couldn't tell
          • Well, I've worked around tv transmitters with leakage fields that probably have exceeded fcc specs by a factor of 100x when in test config as opposed to on air config. Never lost a credit cards data yet.

            But, this rfid thing, with its capability to read this crap while its still in my pocket, without my knowledge, strikes me as a serious invasion of privacy I would druther not have.

            The possibility that someone with a portable reader could walk down a busy street and get all the data that would allow an i
      • The upside of all this, is that we can use it to track all government officials.

        So we can easily track and post on a website in realtime:

        o) every titty bar they go to
        o) every adult store they rent goatpr0n from
        o) every cheap motel they go to meet hookers in
        o) every street corner they go to score crack at
        o) every unrecorded vacation at taxpayer expense
        o) use your imagination :))

        Real ID + RFID cuts both ways. Ain't that a bitch, senator?
        • Heh. Good idea.

          Actually implementing it might be non-trivial. You'd have to get the readers installed in the appropriate bars, adult stores, cheap motels, etc. This would entail the cooperation of the management, many of whom would probably think it's a fun project. But still, it would mean a lot of one-on-one talks with managers. You'd have to install the equipment, check it out, and maintain the comm channels.

          Actually, it sounds like something that both tabloid and muckraking news orgs might find i

  • Just Doing Their Job (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Near as I can tell, this whole thing is being pushed by Wisconsin Rep. Sensenbrenner primarily as an anti-immigration measure.

    If the American military was serius about defending American freedom, they would hunt down Sensenbrenner, drag him into the street and shoot him through the lungs. Or, if they were serius about defending American safety then they would be stationed in American cities trained and equipped to deal with terrorist attacks.

    Oh, but wait, that's not their job. The job of the American

    • Re:Just Doing Their Job (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Or, if they were serius about defending American safety then they would be stationed in American cities trained and equipped to deal with terrorist attacks.

      Oh, but wait, that's not their job. The job of the American military is to defend Iraqi freedom.

      Think boundary defense; if you want to protect a goal, do you let the goal-tender be the first line of defense? No, you try and keep the ball as far away from the goal as possible. The analogy is not spot on, but by placing American troops overseas, you g
    • Last I checked, the Military's job is to uphold/defend the principles set forth in the Constitution of the United States of America.

      And there's another something about enemies both foreign and domestic.
      So I guess shooting Sensenbrenner would be okay.

      But technically, you'd have the National Guard shoot Sensenwhatacrappylastname.

      All that said... Why in God's name is anyone from Wisconson worried about immigration? Too many Canadians jumping the border fence between us and Ontario?

    • If the American military was serius about defending American freedom, they would hunt down Sensenbrenner, drag him into the street and shoot him through the lungs.

      a hint to the clueless: loose talk about shooting congressmen does not win you friends on capital hill.

  • Real-ID Act (Score:2, Insightful)

    by alexandreracine ( 859693 )
    Sooooooo... is this the thing that will take a lot of money from the US tax payers to identify 12 persons per 30 years instead of looking the reports that you will be attacked by some people in planes that you knew all along?
  • Ok, the jokes roll in about the dupe of the summary, but how did that one slip through?

    Guess they should have used the preview button!
    • I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest: maybe they did it on purpose.
      Ya know, in an ironic sortof way.

      Wait, who am I kidding, this is slashdot.
      Around here, we do things like that on purpose.

      Dammit. I didn't mean to do that.
      Maybe I should've used the preview button.

      Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal [mailto]

  • Hmm, most mathematicians that go to Hollywood end up getting their maths screwed up. Thats where 1 infringing copy = $150,000 in damages. I'd get out of there quickly if I were that guy.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • REAL ID (Score:5, Informative)

    by Xeroc ( 877174 ) on Thursday May 12, 2005 @08:22PM (#12514959)
    "It really isn't too late to avoid the worst of the Real-ID Act, and Bruce Scheier's essay on it should be required reading."

    Yes, definitely! I really like the points he makes, such as that REAL ID is bad because:

    - Real addresses on all cards, even for undercover police officers
    - Insecure RFID technology allowing unauthorized access
    - Machine readable = ATM > 7-11's Database > Choicepoint > Spammers and Identity Theifs
    - Expensive ($120 million estimated per state!) and unfunded! The last thing we need are more deficits!
    - Power grab by national government

    And the best of all, besides it probably decreasing security:

    - Polls overwhelmingly show no one wants it! And over 600 organizations oppose it!

    Now, if that doesn't sound like a completely botched-up job, I don't know what is.

    • Re:REAL ID (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      besides it probably decreasing security:

      Tell me about it. I recently had to get cleared to work at a federal site. The first thing I get is an email request for Name, SSN, place of birth, etc. I told the guy I wasn't stupid enough to send that over plaintext email. I didn't bother to ask how many of my coworker's data had already been forwarded. Since then he has accumulated a huge stack of information on all of us, which will all be sent to someone, who will send it to someone else, who will do who knows

    • Re:REAL ID (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Caseyscrib ( 728790 )
      - Real addresses on all cards, even for undercover police officers

      I suspect this is going to be a problem for repo and tow-truck guys. I have spoken with a few of them and they all say rule #1 is never give out your address. They put their PO Box on their license, but some don't even like to give that out. They do this because there are some crazy people who shoot at them and all sorts of stuff.

      • Tow-truck drivers, ugh. They are the scum of the Earth. I've seen so many illegal tows it's not even funny. For example, California law requires a photograph* to be taken of the parked car in certain cases before it is towed. Not once have I ever heard of a tow truck driver actually complying with this part of the law, or even carrying a camera with them in the cab. These people basically take others' property on the flimsiest of excuses and hold it for ransom. The only reason they don't get busted for thei
      • They do this because there are some crazy people who shoot at them and all sorts of stuff.
        "The life of the repo man is intense." --Emilio Estevez, Repo Man [imdb.com]
    • I don't like that everyone is making a big deal about "even police and judges - no exceptions!". Wouldn't you be more concerned if there WERE exceptions? Joe and Jill public can be tracked down, have their data exploited, be stalked, harassed and everything else, but law enforcement and government officials would be considered a "higher class" of citizen and not have to submit to this?

      I hate the REAL ID law. This is terrible. But it would be even more terrible if it allowed for multiple classes of citizens
      • You're right, but the point is to show that the ID is completely countryproductive to the even the people that might "support" it.

    • Real addresses on all cards

      I don't understand how that could be even considered. Are they going to change every card whenever you address changes? My Finnish driver's license certainly doesn't have any information that could change during the license's 52 year lifetime (apart from the photo and some medical conditions like glasses).

      Cops can still find out my address through the social security number and their fancy databases.

      • Every time I move my state requires me to get a new license to reflect my new address. If I move out of state I have to turn over my old license and get one in the new state. (Generally they just mark the old license as invalid as a license, but still proof of ID, and give you papers that are proof of license - confusing but it works until you get the new license in about a month)

        In most states licenses are only good for 4 years. Every 4 years I have to go get a new license, which includes a vision t

        • Az still has crazy long licences, mine's good till 2036. I think it'll probably change soon but as long as I don't loose this one I'm good for a long time. Oh, and I just got a new one in Jan since my last one got stolen in a holdup.

    • Re:REAL ID (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Caseyscrib ( 728790 ) on Thursday May 12, 2005 @09:29PM (#12515364)
      From his article on Identity Cards [schneier.com]:

      My argument may not be obvious, but it's not hard to follow, either. It centers around the notion that security must be evaluated not based on how it works, but on how it fails.

      It doesn't really matter how well an ID card works when used by the hundreds of millions of honest people that would carry it. What matters is how the system might fail when used by someone intent on subverting that system: how it fails naturally, how it can be made to fail, and how failures might be exploited.

      I thought it was worth repeating.

    • What really scares me is that I read this:
      Machine readable = ATM > 7-11's Database > Choicepoint > Spammers and Identity Theifs
      as
      Machine readable = ATM > 7-11's Database > Checkpoint > Spammers and Identity Theifs
      I wonder how far off I really am.

  • Schneider on REAL ID (Score:4, Insightful)

    by GQuon ( 643387 ) on Thursday May 12, 2005 @08:30PM (#12515014) Journal
    REAL ID requires that driver's licenses contain actual addresses, and no post office boxes. There are no exceptions made for judges or police -- even undercover police officers. This seems like a major unnecessary security risk.

    Yeah, because everybody know that undercover police officers take their real ID papers with them under cover. [/sarcasm]
    If there's a need to keep the address of judges and police officers secret, then allow them to list FAKE addresses, or rather an address that is re-routed through a mail screening service. Don't allow any Tom, Dick, and Harry to list their address as
    Box 5, Jean Climax' Barber, Maildrop and Internet Café.

    REAL ID also prohibits states from issuing driver's licenses to illegal aliens. This makes no sense, and will only result in these illegal aliens driving without licenses -- which isn't going to help anyone's security.

    How does that make no sense? Like, knowing who people are before giving them identification? If they drive so horribly without a license, what would make them try to get one?
    • BUT - who's to decide who gets to have a FAKE real-ID address and who has to have a REAL real-ID.
    • just an FYI. There ARE still people in the this country ( everyone in my hometown for instance. ) who do not have street address. The ONLY address you can get if you live in the town of Audubon MN. is a P.O. Box. ( of coarse I supposed if someone wants to find you they only have about a 12 block area to search). Still, why should I have to provide the goventment with information that can be used in incriminate me if some bozo steals my car or impresinates me in some other way. Seems like a 5th amendme
      • I don't have a street address either. The point is that I actually live at my address, and the post office knows where.

        Still, why should I have to provide the goventment with information that can be used in incriminate me if some bozo steals my car or impresinates me in some other way.

        It could be argued that it would be even easier to impersonate you if all the bozo has to say to take your identity is saying "I'm Christopher N, from X." Of course, getting a credit card with that information is as hard
      • The ONLY address you can get if you live in the town of Audubon MN. is a P.O. Box.

        Let's see now... according to whitepages.com, there's this person with a randonly-chosen surname:

        Jones, Patrick J
        18900 175th St
        Audubon, MN

        Then there's this one:

        Smith, Alan & Jennie
        17012 S Big Cormorant Rd
        Audubon, MN

        And these good folks:

        Miller, Jesse & Bridget
        15212 Hillview Ln
        Audubon, MN

        They all look like street addresses in Audubon to me!

        • I don't know about Audubon itself. I do think that it used to be common to not give farmers street addresses. I grew up on a Rural route. My street address was:

          Rural Route 2, Box 155b
          Buffalo, MN, 55362

          They gave us street addresses about 15 years ago. I know plenty of people in rural areas who still have the rural route address.

          Note that this is a rural route, box address. This is different from a P.O. box, contrary to what the grandparent post claimed. From a rural route box there is no way t

      • There is a difference between your postal address, and physical address. The idea is that it's not for sending you mail, but to find YOU.

    • Re:Schneider on REAL ID (Score:4, Informative)

      by Locke2005 ( 849178 ) on Thursday May 12, 2005 @09:10PM (#12515265)
      Most police officers already using the address of their precinct office instead of their home address whenever they give out an address, precisely to keep perps from tracking down where they live.

    • Re:Schneider on REAL ID (Score:4, Insightful)

      by oirtemed ( 849229 ) on Thursday May 12, 2005 @09:42PM (#12515468)
      Because judges and polices officers are entitled to more rights and protection than regular people? I don't think so..... And this is coming from someone who aspires to be a judge, or atleast be in the legal field. When the priveleged have more rights and the misbalance is there, that's when it falls aparts.
      • Because judges and polices officers are entitled to more rights and protection than regular people? I don't think so..... And this is coming from someone who aspires to be a judge, or atleast be in the legal field. When the priveleged have more rights and the misbalance is there, that's when it falls aparts.

        Now that is truly "insightful." I'd give this a +1 if I weren't blacklisted from moderating. :-)

      • Not that I think REAL ID is a great idea, but... (Score:1, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Police officers are allowed to carry guns while driving. Others are not (guns in vehicles must be in lockers). Is there a problem with that? No. It makes perfect sense- it's not a question of "privelege", it's a question of what their job requires.

        You can adduce a couple hundred examples without expending much effort. Enabling law enforcement to do its job in this kind of way is not going to make anything "falls aparts".
      • Because judges and polices officers are entitled to more rights and protection than regular people? I don't think so.....

        Exactly. Whatever "extra rights" to privacy there are, are measures to protect them from organized crime, and {are|should be} extended to protected vitnesses.
    • What does licensing someone to drive have to do with giving them identification? All a driver's license says is "this person is allowed to drive". Just because *YOUR* driver's license happens to be accepted as identification means nothing. I can use my library card as identification most places.
    • These RealID's would have RFID tags, right? Exactly how much information does an RFID tag hold? I thought it was just some big-ass unique number which would then be related to an actual person, animal or product if the correct database was queried. So, for example, a store inventory tag would only match in their own database, and anywhere else it would show up as "not one of ours".

      I can see that the ID would also have eyeball compatible info, and probably a mag stripe or barcode, but you'd need physical

  • For those who don't want to click on all 500 links, i've parsed out all the urls into a txt file which is availabe here [ev0l.net].

    wget -i files.txt

  • Incorrect reporting (Score:3, Funny)

    by jlowery ( 47102 ) on Thursday May 12, 2005 @08:34PM (#12515046)
    This was an incorrect statement initially made by poor reporters at the Harvard University student newspaper.

    Which is why one should never assume anything from a student newspaper (or Slashdot) is fact.

  • No need to wait for a repost - this one dupes itself!

  • REAL ID (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Seumas ( 6865 ) on Thursday May 12, 2005 @08:43PM (#12515102)
    I presume that all of the REAL ID attributes that are applied to driver's licenses are also applied to state identifications? I have not seen that addressed anywhere.

    See, I have a problem with that. Driving is a privilege and not a right. If you don't want to participate, just don't get a license and don't drive. However, existing is not an option and to do anything (get a library card, bank account, internet access, rent an apartment, get a job) you have to have an identification card.

    So the only way to avoid the requirements of this REAL ID thing is to remove yourself entirely from the technological, social and economic grids. You won't be able to live anywhere, buy anything or work anywhere. So as long as you can do without that, you'll be okay.
    • It's extraordinarily impractical to drive in suburbs with poor public transportation. "Driving is a privilege" is crap; driving is a practical necessity in many places.
      • True. I didn't intend to suggest that driving is a privilege in a practical sense (although I've never driven in my life, pay for taxi cabs and still save money over buying a car and dealing with depreciation).

        However, driving is a "privilege" as far as the government is concerned. That's why they can suspend or completely revoke that privilege whenever they want. That's why they can subject you to searches that would otherwise not be possible. And that's why they can force you to take a breathalizer (by a
        • Driving is a privilege, ok, but it relates to the right to travel. I think, not too clear on this, that a driver's license, once you have one, is considered property, so if they take it away in an arbitrary and capricious manner without due process, you might have a claim.

          OK, the the real ID bill has passed and been signed.
          Let's say you are in the state agency which would be forced to implement it. What can you do to comply with the letter of the law, while making it not work in practice?
          Conversely, how co
      • And it is, actually, a right. The only reason the gov. can require license and registration fees is because they also get to own part of your car when you buy it, unless you, and not them, get the manufacturer's statement of origin. You can drive freely on your property, would probably have to ask for permission or pay for private roads, but the public roads are IIRC funded by gas taxes so it should be possible to drive there too.

        Getting back on topic though, this ID would be required to receive almost any
    • Back in the day, driver's licenses were paper + picture.
      Whatever information the license contained, you could read it.

      Then someone came up with the bright idea of adding a magnetic strip.
      If you live in a state/country that still uses magstrips,
      beat the hell out of it with a hammer so it won't be machine readable anymore.

      Nowadays, the latest and greatest IDs use "3D" barcodes.
      Instead of your up and down stripes, imagine a low rez snowstorm.

      Now you have no clue what information your license contains
      The next

      • To be honest, I completely gave up on any presumption of privacy a few years ago. Back in 2000, I had to provide them with fingerprints and a social security number and a signature (which invalidated my REAL signature, because the digital system didn't allow the personalized style of the way I sign my name - this has caused problems at banks where they couldn't match my real life signature with the one on my photo identification).

        Once they have your fingerprints, social security number, full name, address,
    • Seumas writes: Driving is a privilege and not a right.

      Quite the contrary, one has the right to the quiet enjoyment of one's property. Everyone has a right to use a public road, and it can only be taken away if

      • you are using a motor vehicle, and
      • a court of competent jurisdiction takes your right away for cause, or
      • You have not met the age or competence standard for using a motor vehicle, an inherently dangerous thing.

      "Driving is a privilege and not a right" is an urban legend. If it wasn't a right,

  • Schneier (Score:3, Interesting)

    by smittyoneeach ( 243267 ) * on Thursday May 12, 2005 @08:48PM (#12515132) Homepage Journal
    REAL ID is expensive. It's an unfunded mandate: the federal government is forcing the states to spend their own money to comply with the act.
    This is one of the more interesting surrealities of US public discourse.
    It's really, ultimately, taxpayer dollars, right? Or can someone school me on the point, preferrable in an Alan Greenspan mumble?

    • Re:Schneier (Score:3, Informative)

      by rafimg ( 632613 )

      Yes, states and the federal government are both funded by taxes, but they are different pools of money from different sources. The federal tax base consists primarily of funds collected via the federal income tax, with small amounts coming from import tariffs and the like. States each choose how to raise money and usually have their own income taxes, but those are usually much lower and supplemented by sales taxes and possibly property taxes (although property tax tends to go to municipalities, at least it

      • Re:Schneier (Score:3, Insightful)

        by cmburns69 ( 169686 )
        But what can the federal government do if the state refuses to comply/implement the RealID card? Generally, the feds threaten to remove funding for roads, infrastructure, etc..

        Couldn't states just give the bird to the feds on this? If no consequence is spelled out in the bill, no consequence can be pushed on the state. If the feds pass this, I can see a lot of states passing their own legislation declaring their ID "good enough" (similar to Utah's reaction to "No child left behind").

      • Again, we can split hairs until bald, but the foundation of the whole structure is still the taxpayer.
        I fantasize about locking these twits in a room, and telling them they get no soup until the tax code fits on one side of one sheet of paper, in a legible font.
        Remember not to vote for me!

  • I'm Bizarro-Harvard! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by monkease ( 726622 )
    Okay, I do not get this at all...

    From the post:

    Farley wrote to point out that his[sic] neither a Harvard post-doctoral fellow nor a professor at the State University of New York at Buffalo, writing "I am not and never have been either. (I am a tenured professor elsewhere and have been for several years.)

    FTA:

    CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- Harvard professor Jonathan Farley is an award-winning scholar, but he wouldn't mind being known as a Hollywood mathematician.

    So I thought to myself, couldn't he just c
  • So I agree with Scheiner REAL ID is an absolutely terrible idea (it combines the worst security aspects of national and state IDs) it really isn't clear to me that a national ID card could not make identification more reliable as well as realizing significant economic savings by standardization.

    In particular while I agree that using one ID system introduces a common point of high value failure it also economiclly feasible to invest a great deal more in the ID system. If one ID replaces n IDs you can make t
    • I tried to use my passport instead of my driver's license to get onto an air force base (where I work). Didn't work. I was amused that the US air force wouldn't accept a US passport as adequate identification, but would accept a state driver's license. It wasn't just one guard either; they had specific instructions that passprts weren't acceptable.

  • Huh? (Score:4, Funny)

    by l00sr ( 266426 ) on Thursday May 12, 2005 @08:57PM (#12515188)
    A handful of updates, corrections and further thoughts on recent Slashdot stories follow; read on for updates on the Real-ID Act, Hollywood consultant math professor Jonathan Farley, the real first losers (and winners of the U.S. Open's Aibo League) at the 2005 Robo-Cup, and more. Details below.A handful of updates, corrections and further thoughts on recent Slashdot stories follow; read on for updates on the Real-ID Act, Hollywood consultant math professor Jonathan Farley, the real first losers (and winners of the U.S. Open's Aibo League) at the 2005 Robo-Cup, and more. Details below.


    The dupes just keep getting closer together, don't they? The dupes just keep getting closer together, don't they?

  • YOU CAN STILL FIGHT THE REAL ID (Score:4, Informative)

    by hsmith ( 818216 ) on Thursday May 12, 2005 @09:08PM (#12515250)
    Write your GOVERNORS people! The national association of governors isn't a fan of the act and they want to protest it. WRITE YOUR GOVERNOR!!!!! it may still be able to be stopped

  • Holy crap. (Score:3, Funny)

    by StikyPad ( 445176 ) on Thursday May 12, 2005 @09:08PM (#12515251) Homepage
    It's the first dupe in one post. We've all just seen history folks. In 20 years, your kids (or clones, for those of you who don't/can't breed) will ask you about this moment. Remember it well.
  • At least this is new. It's been a while since the last new insane bit of grammar/spelling I've seen ("copy'd").
  • Just so that someone's talking about it:

    I personally think the new single that's been getting excessive amounts of airtime sucks

    If you read that again, you'll realize I said the single sucks.
    Not Nine Inch Nails, not Trent Reznor, just the new single.

    I haven't heard the rest of the album. I'm sure I will eventually
    But if that one song reflects the new sound NIN is aiming for...
    I'll most likely be underwhelmed.

    I like their older work.
    I hope this CD isn't like Metallica & their craptacular last album
    Ch

  • would everyone equate a driver's license with a universal id card. is it really the assumption in the US that every last individual will wish to drive a goddamn car?
    • Well, pretty much everyone does. Even if they don't, usually states issue identification cards through the same system, anyway. Here in Pennsylvania, a PA ID Card is exactly the same as a PA Driver's License, except that the back says IDENTIFICATION ONLY - NOT TO BE USED AS A DRIVER'S LICENSE, and the license class field on the front is omitted. You are even issued a driver's license number, but the card and record indicate that you are licensed for no classes.
  • Carte Blanche for the Terror Cops

    Senate Gives Dept. Homeland Security Power to Waive All Laws

    By ROBERT SHULL [counterpunch.org]

    In passing the Iraq War Supplemental yesterday, the Senate also gave the Secretary of Homeland Security the power to waive any and all law in the course of building roads and barriers along the U.S. borders -- without limit and with no checks and balances. The measure is part of the "REAL ID Act of 2005," the controversial immigration bill attached by the House as a rider to the Iraq war suppleme

  • Trent Reznor hasn't challenged anything, instead, he's jumped on the bandwagon. Bands, including ones on major labels too, have been distrubuting remix packs for years now. Just because Reznor is using Garageband and prior artists used Acid packs, that doesn't make Reznor's offering any more "open to the common user". You could even argue the opposite.

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