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Mobile Magazine's Notebook Tech Support Reviews 151

Posted by CmdrTaco from the laptop-tech-support-is-agonizing dept.
antdude writes "Mobile Magazine tested companies' technical support for their notebooks/laptops. Each test had three calls to each of ten major notebook manufacturers (added three additional vendors since last year). Also, called three third-party providers of PC help. On the whole, what they found was a sea of ignorance -- and annoying fixation with pinning down our name, address, and serial numbers. Things haven't gotten any better since our 2004 test -- and most of the vendors we tested have actually gotten worse..."
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Mobile Magazine's Notebook Tech Support Reviews More

Mobile Magazine's Notebook Tech Support Reviews

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  • Three samples isn't statistically kosher. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by mellon ( 7048 ) * on Thursday June 16, 2005 @05:04PM (#12836452) Homepage
    This isn't based on a customer survey - it's based on three contrived problems and the phone calls that went with them. Because of the incredibly small sample, you really can't generalize - the results are essentially random. Too bad, because a lot of people will probably just look at the scorecard and never notice the incredibly lame way they did the survey.

    • Re:Three samples isn't statistically kosher. (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      especially during passover.

    • Re:Three samples isn't statistically kosher. (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Consumer Reports has a somewhat up to date chart of their most recent survey for tech support for Laptops and Desktops.

      http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detailv4.jsp?C ONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=596745&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=16 2693 [consumerreports.org]

    • The Tests Used... (Score:1, Insightful)

      by MS-06FZ ( 832329 )
      Call 1: Device driver trouble We disabled our optical drive in Device Manager. Easy fix: Uninstall the relevant device driver and reboot. Windows heals itself.

      Call 2: Wi-Fi misconfiguration We turned off TCP/IP routing for our wireless adapter, so we could connect to the router but couldn't browse the web. Easy fix: Check the properties for the relevant adapter to make sure the correct protocols are installed. Or, uninstall the device and reboot.

      Call 3: Corrupted operating system We overwrote a critic

      • Re:The Tests Used... (Score:3, Informative)

        by tekiegreg ( 674773 ) *
        Well my 2 cents: #1 Is theoretically possible, maybe in a new hardware installation that disabled an old device driver and attempted (and failed) to load a new one. Though if you're installing new hardware, would that void your warranty?

        #2 Also tricky to pull, I'd have to assume negligence in setting up your Internet settings is what caused this (or why play with that?). Perhaps you were setting up a new ISP, complete with new settings when you hit that checkbox.

        #3 I'm suspecting a trojan or other
    • Yes, and what's with the "grading" system? I couldn't make any sense of it whatsoever.

      At least one of the problems they induced would never, ever happen to a normal person, either.

      Here's an idea for their next article: "How Far Can You Drop a Demo Laptop, And What Damage Ensues?" I'm sure it will be equally well-thought-out.
    • The article never claims to be a statistical study. You don't have to approach the issue in a statistical fashion to obtain an informative result.

      The validity of an anecdotal study like this hinges on how strong your expectation of consistent service is. If you have good reason to believe that a single experience is probably representative of most visits, you can have a very small sample and still come back with valid conclusions.

      Take restaurant reviewing as an example: The Michelin and Zagat's restaur
      • Your logic is broken. In the one case, they're asking for recommendations, which as you say can be useful. In the case of the article, they try a couple of bogus tests and rate the companies' service on that basis. This just doesn't tell you anything. With a sample of three, even a really good company is only going to get a good rating if all three of the techs who answer are having really good days. This is just a matter of luck. Granted, if all your techs suck, you can be sure of a bad rating,
        • Your logic is broken.

          This has to be the most pointless and idiotic reply I have ever read in my life. The poster you responded to gave an extremely detailed description of why a small sample size is sufficient. All you have done is repeat the original statement to which he was replying: Oh, its totally random.

          ITS NOT FUCKING RANDOM.

          If statisticians can statistically determine who the next president of the United States is by polling 1000 people, I think making 3 calls to a tech support line is more t
          • Dude, you're just being rude, here. The parent makes a perfectly valid point--see my sibling comment to yours for some more thoughts on that. Short version: Consumer Reports did large-sample studies, and got somewhat different results from the anecdotal study in the magazine article. That suggests strongly that there's more variance in the techs' effectiveness at any given company than I originally gave credit for.

            If statisticians can statistically determine who the next president of the United States
        • That sibling poster to my current comment sure has a bug up his ass, doesn't he? But back to our discussion...

          With a larger sample size, random chance plays less of a part - if you have consistently good techs, you will get a good score, and if you have consistently bad techs you will get a bad score.

          I do understand statistical methods. I think that our major difference of opinion here is in how much difference there really is between the majority of techs working at a given company. That's what most
          • Look, not to beat a dead horse or anything, but you're making my point for me here. The point is that the purpose of this article was not to inform the reader, but rather to make money for the magazine. The degree of journalistic integrity here is zero. The authors have no reason at all to assume that what they are saying is true.

            Like you, I haven't had a stats course in a long time - in my case 25 years - but the holes in this study are still obvious to me. Look closer at the Consumer Reports arti
    • I remember several years ago a local TV station was testing the break/fix abilities of local stores (Best Buy, Circuit City, et cetera.)

      The contrived test they came up with was to bring a computer that won't boot up--the cause was the ribbon cable on the hard drive was upside down (which is unusual today because ribbon cables have the little notch to prevent that.) The solutin they were looking for for the technician to put the ribbon cable correctly.

      Everyone failed the test except for one store (as I rec
      • The contrived test they came up with was to bring a computer that won't boot up--the cause was the ribbon cable on the hard drive was upside down (which is unusual today because ribbon cables have the little notch to prevent that.) The solutin they were looking for for the technician to put the ribbon cable correctly.

        When I can't access a HD, I will unplug the cable, blow out the areas, and plug it back in. It's one of the first things to come to mind.

        Now, if this was over the phone, I prob. wouldn't te
        • When I can't access a HD, I will unplug the cable, blow out the areas, and plug it back in. It's one of the first things to come to mind.

          Sounds like a strange approach to me.
          I'm sysadmin for a living (over 2yrs now) and I think I have never removed the cable, "blown" it and plugged it back in when I encounter a broken drive.

          I usually only apply some pressure to the plug to make sure it
          hasn't loosened over time.

          I don't think dust can collect inside the plug-holes to an amount where it would interfere wit
  • Yeah, this is basically what it's come to. And, it's not just outsourcing. Many small companies I deal with put their newly-hired pimply kids on tech support. Because, guess what, the senior people (who actually know their ass from a hole in the wall) can't be bothered.

    • Which is only natural. The problem is, the bar is continually being lowered. As part of a Marketing class assignment, we read about how major vendors in all industries are letting their support slide, because as it turns out, people don't care enough to do anything about it. They SAY they do, but they don't.

      Customers that make real trouble, companies would rather lose to reduce support costs. Individuals just don't matter anymore. People will continue to buy Dells, no matter how bad the customer su
  • Try calling the various companies international support lines while out of the country about a notebook you bought in the US.

    IBM does (did?) a good job with this. Others completely fell apart.

  • The call to Dell (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 16, 2005 @05:07PM (#12836478)
    Hello, this is Steve Rahashapemndadshomafaridsuaoia, how may I help you?

    Click

  • You get what you pay for (Score:4, Insightful)

    by stoolpigeon ( 454276 ) * <bittercode@gmail> on Thursday June 16, 2005 @05:07PM (#12836481) Homepage Journal
    And frankly I'd rather pay less for a laptop and deal with the service not being so great. I have a hunch this is true with a lot of people.

    If a company were to start advertising, 'Hey- our laptops cost more but you get the best service.' I bet they wouldn't sell as well as the company beating their prices.

    With the wealth of knowledge available on the web-- I don't usually use support anyway. My family that aren't as tech savvy? They bring their issues to me. They don't use the support either.
    • "Our laptops cost more but you get the best service" is basically how IBM and Apple expect to sell pricey high-end laptops to professionals. My experience with Apple support was pretty lousy: after Apple diagnosed my hard drive as faulty, it took 18 days to get my laptop back with a new drive. Apple's tech reps changed their story every time I called -- one day it was "we received the part and need to install it" and the next day it was "we just need to order your new part!". Even Compaq turned things ar
    • Support as such arises, in most cases, due to ignorance and laziness. Most of these tech support issues can be solved by simply RTFM. Now that is definitely too much to ask of people. How many people actually read the manual when they get their PC or at least when they actually have a problem? This is the reason most companies don't print manuals but just put it on a CD because if they know that they are simply going to save money. Besides if you are savvy enough to pop in that CD and read the docs you'll h
    • If a company were to start advertising, 'Hey- our laptops cost more but you get the best service.' I bet they wouldn't sell as well as the company beating their prices.

      Not always. Dell's prices are usually quite good, but rarely the absolute cheapest. But what has their advertising mantra been over the past few years? "Award winning service and support". They offered impressive -- and industry changing -- service plans on their products, and people started buying Dell over HP, Compaq, Gateway, and others

    • I'd rather not pay for software support at all.
    • I only paid $800 for my Averatec laptop, and they have the best 24-hour customer service I've encountered with nearly no wait times. The smaller companies have to try harder in all aspects to compete with companies like Dell and Gateway that sell their name brand.

      (My company plug for the day)
  • This isn't so surprising to me. Many of my customers are willing ot pay us to fix computers that are under warranty just so that they won't have to deal with tech support.

    You almost wonder if the major manufacturers want to make sure that it isn't too easy or people will access the services too often.
    • I always thought it was amusing that one of my clients would call me to make a paid office visit in order for me to talk to Dell for her so she didn't have to supress homicidal tendancies.

      This was if she had a hardware failure. Any other problem, she'd call me and have me fix it there.

  • I tried phoning for tech support (Score:3, Funny)

    by WillAffleckUW ( 858324 ) on Thursday June 16, 2005 @05:09PM (#12836492) Homepage Journal
    but my VoIP on my laptop didn't work and since it was a network problem ...

    Um, hello?

  • My pet on-hold peeve (Score:5, Insightful)

    by QuantumRiff ( 120817 ) on Thursday June 16, 2005 @05:12PM (#12836513)
    If your going to keep my on hold and listening to music, please dear god stop interupting the songs every 15-20 seconds with an automated voice giving me a sales pitch, or thanking me for being a customer, or assuring me a tech is working on the problem. Let me listen to the damn music uninterrupted while I wait.

    On the plus side, one tech support line, ( I think it was 3com) had a voice at the start of the hold cue that said, Press 1 for classical music, Press 2 for Jazz, Press 3 for classic rock.... That was pretty nice
    • The absolute worst is the fake picked up phone click followed by "Thank you for continuing to hold..."
    • I called Microsoft maybe 10 years ago, and they had a DJ playing songs. "That was Barry Manilow. This next one goes out to the folks in the Microsoft Word queue, where the average hold time is 48 minutes right now..."

      HP's interruptions are terrible. "HP and AOL have teamed up to simplify the Internet for you!" every five minutes for hours on end. Intolerable.
    • I once worked at a place where we managed to get permission for an MP3 server for hold music. Management was tired of customers thinking they had been hung up on due to hold-silence, and we wanted an excuse to build a server to play MP3's all day.

      Management didn't particularly ask what music we were putting on the server, so we just put all the MP3's we had handy, and an ancient version of slackware that would run on the 486 we had lying around, and we had to set the MP3 player to mono only so it would pl
    • When I setup the hold music on our PBX at the office, I set it up with some subliminal messaging to calm them down before I get them.

      That way I get the full fun of working them up into a complete tizzy.
    • That is a huge pet peeve of mine as well. I can zone out while the hold music is playing and work on other things. But being interrupted every 30 seconds keeps making me think someone has picked up the phone. Grrrrrrrrrr. Yes stupid repeating message I understand how being on hold works. I listen to music until you get around to talking to me. And even if I didn't know this I probably figured out the first 20 times you explained it to me.

      I'm not sure if they still do it but Gateway used to have a fake Ga
    • On the plus side, one tech support line, ( I think it was 3com) had a voice at the start of the hold cue that said, Press 1 for classical music, Press 2 for Jazz, Press 3 for classic rock.... That was pretty nice

      Yes, actually that was a 3com thing, I worked with US Robotics and when they split off in 97-98(?) we kept the music going... we even had the option of changing what songs were played as long as it was along the lines of Classical, Jazz, Adult Contemporary, or Classic Rock. We found ourselves in h

    • On the plus side, one tech support line, ( I think it was 3com) had a voice at the start of the hold cue that said, Press 1 for classical music, Press 2 for Jazz, Press 3 for classic rock.... That was pretty nice

      Is that really nice, or merely a flag that their support was so bad that they're more interested in improving the wait than they are in improving the support? I think there is a car rental ad on TV that sarcastically portrays their competitor like that: "It's a long line but, hey, free coffee


    • Press 4 for The Corrs!

      Sorry, my favorite band...And if they were on everybody's holding music, most people - except the rappers, soul, R&B, jazz, country-Western, punk, death metal and Gothic types - wouldn't mind. And if you could see their music videos while you wait, even those types wouldn't mind.

      Hey! Great idea! Get video to everybody's phone and show PORN while you wait!

      I can see the phone menu now: Press 1 for straight, press 2 for lesbian, press 3 for gay, press 4 for orgy, press 5 for fat w
  • From someone who did t/s for years I can assure you that from the accounting/shareholders perspective, tech support is nothing but a hole. It is a money loser that they would rather consign to the depths than invest in training, customer contact database upgrades, etc; I used to hear it repeatedly that support wasn't a \revenue\generator.

  • I haven't had problems (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 16, 2005 @05:15PM (#12836539)
    I only buy those notebooks [officedepot.com] with the black marbled covers and the wide ruled sheets inside. I don't see a help line number on any of them, but then they've never given me any problems, so I've never needed to call anyone.
    • College rule spiral notebooks have greater storage capacity, are easier to move data off of, and are usually cheaper.
      • I've found them to be very unreliable, however. The files tend to become lost or corrupt easily, and the file system structure itself can get damaged during transport, making it difficult to page through the files to find the information you want.

        Besides, you can get your data out of the other kind of notebook with the proper tool [swissarmy.com]. You can then cut & paste, or import into a three-ring system with another tool [staples.com].

        (How far can we stretch this joke? :) )

        • They're more durable than the Microperfs, that's for sure.

          I've never seen filesystem corruption unless I left it open when not in use.

          Of course files can corrupt or get lost easily when you just put them randomly out there - keep them within the notebook's filesystem, and they don't get corrupted.

          Also, there are higher end versions with directory-capable filing systems (these often go under the name "5-subject", and have more storage capacity than normal notebooks). It's even theoretically possible to us

  • VPAC is necessary (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Rinikusu ( 28164 ) on Thursday June 16, 2005 @05:17PM (#12836565)
    Back when I did tech support, I'd say 90% of the problems I encountered were software configuration issues, not hardware. When you're calling tech support, it only stands to reason that you actually buy hardware from the manufacturer, which is why people want to know your serial # and address information: Is this our shit? As a lot of software issues can be solved regardless of vendor, it's important they don't waste time/money on someone else's stuff. Surprisingly enough, I had people with Gateways trying to get support from Dell. :/

  • The biggest problem I run into with tech support is the huge amount of rules and regulations the call center people have to follow. Instead of me calling up Gateway and saying "Hey my modem is fried, I know what I'm doing with computers, send me a new one" I have to go through an hour of pointless troubleshooting. For a $5 part with $3 shipping they should just send me the part.

    Also the call center person has his/her hands tied when fixing the problem. Recently my cable internet service did not discontin

    • Re:Employees are not trusted (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Otter ( 3800 ) on Thursday June 16, 2005 @05:29PM (#12836681) Journal
      Instead of me calling up Gateway and saying "Hey my modem is fried, I know what I'm doing with computers, send me a new one" I have to go through an hour of pointless troubleshooting.

      The problem is that if they listened to everyone who says "I know what I'm doing with computers!", they'd spend all day shipping out new computers to thousands of people whose cat knocked the power cord out of the outlet.

      • The problem is that if they listened to everyone who says "I know what I'm doing with computers!", they'd spend all day shipping out new computers to thousands of people whose cat knocked the power cord out of the outlet.

        Is that why tech support's first question is always: "Do you own a cat?"
    • Instead of me calling up Gateway and saying "Hey my modem is fried, I know what I'm doing with computers, send me a new one" I have to go through an hour of pointless troubleshooting.

      Get a real warranty. When the hard drive in my Dell D600 laptop died, I phoned the support number, gave them the serial number, said "the hard drive died and your diagnostic utility is saying <insert error message here>", and I had a new hard drive before 9AM the next morning.
      • But that is different than saying "my hard drive is dead, send me a new one now". I honestly used to work for Gateway before being laid off to be outsourced (the best thing they could have done to me) and I had people call me up all the time saying "the system is not working, send me a new one" and they didn't want to troubleshoot or anything. But if someone called me up and say my modem is not working and then tell me everything they have done then I would have them off the phone in 5 minutes.

        - Qua
      • This has nothing to do with warranty. Your hard drive diagnostic utility, while fallible, is probably 99% likely to be correct. His fried modem could indeed be a bad modem, or it could be that he erased the dial-in number, changed ISPs, or knocked the cord out of the back. If forcibly removed by older versions of ad-aware, new.net would totally screw up Windows' TCP stack. At first glance, a person could easily assume that their NIC had failed, but a few simple troubleshooting steps could tell you that

    • The biggest problem I run into with tech support is the huge amount of rules and regulations the call center people have to follow. Instead of me calling up Gateway and saying "Hey my modem is fried, I know what I'm doing with computers, send me a new one" I have to go through an hour of pointless troubleshooting. For a $5 part with $3 shipping they should just send me the part.

      This reminds me of lately when I had a problem with my cable modem. I called the ISP on a friday telling them that my inter


    • Also the call center person has his/her hands tied when fixing the problem. Recently my cable internet service did not discontinue my service when I told them to. Even though it was obvious they needed to credit my account for the extra month they charged me for, the representative could not due to some rule. If he was trusted to just make the decision things would go much smoother.

      Judging from some of the horror stories I've heard in re: cable/satellite/cell phone billing nightmares, I wouldn't be surpr

  • I work in tech support for Road Runner... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    ...(in fact, I'm at work right now) in addition to being a full-time student. I can tell you that most people I work with here have a fraction of the knowledge the need to do their job correctly. They fancy themselves "geeks" when, in reality, most are nothing more than ordinary misfits of one sort or another. They try to get by on attitude and ego but, where the rubber meets the road, they have no credibility whatsoever. Phrases like emtionally stunted, dull-witted, and psychologically regressive come
    • This has to be one of the most asinine comments I have ever read in my life. Let me tell you that any job that you undertake in real life will revolve around some training. If those tech support reps didn't know their job, it's most likely a problem with the training. If they can't muscle the training, it's most likely the fault of the call center for hiring folk not up to the task.

      You claim that computer tech support work is work that only morons would do. I don't get you. Does that mean everyone who
  • and update me when the number of people in line changes. That, at least, gives the appearance of movement.

    Though you can get into predictive problems with this. United Airlines has told me more than once, "your estimated wait time is 80 minutes". Yikes! And they still can't make money?

  • Former Dell Rep (Score:4, Informative)

    by Kesh ( 65890 ) on Thursday June 16, 2005 @05:22PM (#12836609)
    As a former tech-support rep for Dell, I can at least understand what's going on there.

    First off, Dell doesn't do the work themselves. They outsource their tech-support to another company (whom I worked for). They've got call centers across the US and in other countries. The trouble is, if one call center is being overwhelmed, you call will get bumped to another. When that happens, you might get put into the wrong queue (home users ending up on the business lines), which means you'll have to hang up and call again. Each queue is only allowed to handle their particular service area. So, if you have an Inspiron laptop at home, you can't get any help from the desktop techs or the business laptop techs. And they can't transfer calls to another queue.

    Further, the call centers close up shop at midnight local time. All remaining calls in queue then get bumped west. After midnight in California, that means you're getting a foreign call center until 8 am Eastern.

    The serial numbers, however, are a good thing. When you call in, you're asked to read off the Service Tag for your machine, which allows the tech to not only pull up technical specs on your individual Dell, but to see your prior call history. That way, they know that the last time you called in you were having X problem, and the tech recommended Y solution, or that they sent out a replacement hard drive, etc.

    In all, it wasn't a bad job (aside from rude or hysterical callers). Just tedious, and you had little chance to interact with your co-workers, or even your supervisors. Hell, I never did find out what my supervisor's name was, because I never met her in person.
    • Someone worked for C*****gys. ;)

      I'm so glad I was never part of that account. You guys (if you did indeed work for the company I'm talking about) pretty much made the company and gave them the perfect marketing tool (support is great!) that they pimp to this day. Ya'll were pretty enthusiastic about it too.

      I hear today it's a shell of what it used to be in the mid-late 90's.

  • Economics of Tech Support (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mpapet ( 761907 ) on Thursday June 16, 2005 @05:23PM (#12836617) Homepage
    In one company I worked, one call wiped out the profit of 5 units sold. Laptops likely make more money per unit, but same concept...

    There is -no- incentive for having warm bodies intelligently support a product. An employee like that would:
    1. cost too much money/hour and be hard to replace.
    2. Take too long with each customer
    3. Inspire more phone calls. (support is great right?)
    4. Raise the price of the laptop.
  • "and annoying fixation with pinning down our name, address, and serial numbers"

    Ya, god forbid they'd want to ship you a replacement part or know who they are talking to. I have no clue why this is a negative point.

    One thing I really like is calling HP phone support. I've dealt with them several times over the past 2 weeks for server issues. They have one of those automated voice response systems that ask you what product you are calling about and what operating system it uses. I only had a problem onc
    • Yeah, I was also surprised that they thought it was strange that the tech asked them to boot from a bootable CD when the CD wasn't 'working'. If you can boot off the CD it tells you instantly that there is nothing wrong with the hardware, but it's a windows configuration problem. That's a good quick check, nothing strange about it at all.

  • Most of you don't get it (Score:4, Informative)

    by thunderbee ( 92099 ) on Thursday June 16, 2005 @05:33PM (#12836710)
    At all.
    Most calls to support have little to do with actual problems.
    Most calls to support are from the 95% of the population that calls because 'the internet is broken, please fix it, I bought my computer from you'.

    So, they have procedures to deal with these 95%.
    No, "I know my stuff, just trust me" won"t work - everyone says that.

    Your best bet is to play along, nicely.
    Spontaneously providing precise and to the point information gets you out of the dummy filters faster. Of course, the question is then, can you get to someone who can actually fix the poroblem.
    This is the real problem.
    Bashing the dummy-filtering procedure is pointless. Focusing on the eventual availability of someone with the knowledge/power to fix things is what matters.

  • Horrible Testing (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Qwerpafw ( 315600 ) on Thursday June 16, 2005 @05:44PM (#12836788) Homepage
    I'm really amazed by how badly they conducted this test. Some of the reasons why their procedure is horrible have already been touched upon:

    Statistically insignificant sample size.

    Bad choice of problems.

    Arbitrary Grading.

    These problems are even more ridiculous when you look at what they did to their apple laptop. As a reference point, Apple has the highest ranked Tech Support by Consumer Reports for both desktops and laptops. In one phone call, they decided this was not the case--apparently conducting surveys of thousands of people is unnecessary.

    They also chose different problems for the mac--booting off a non-existent network drive? How is this even remotely a real-world problem? Furthermore, holding down option while rebooting lets you choose the drive your computer will boot from--which is a fix for the problem. If they reset the preference after they booted so that it broke again, that's not Apple's fault.

    Misconfiguring wi-fi is also an amazingly horrible test. There's no way to know what settings someone's wireless network and router use, unless you're the LAN administrator. Apple was more than correct to refer them to the manufacturer of the router--could you tell me, right now, what my IP, DNS, Gateway, and hostmask settings should be? What about the SSID and password for my router?

    The test was stupidly conducted, and worse yet, only conducted once. Their results were meaningless.

    • Furthermore, holding down option while rebooting lets you choose the drive your computer will boot from--which is a fix for the problem.

      Does your choice get safed when you do that? The way the article was written, it sounded like it did not, and in that case, I would agree with them that it's not a fix. I'm not a Mac user, though, so I don't know. :)

    • Statistically insignificant sample size.

      There is a whole tradition of qualitative inquiry that has been seeping into evaluation (from anthropology mainly) for about fifty years now. It seems there are situations when you don't want to construct confidence intervals based on probability (statistics), but, rather, want to understand a complexe phenomenon.

      A survey of thousands of users would have to be controled for the users experience (what if the user was actually wrong?) and for the company (different c
    • Howdy, I'm the editor in chief of Mobile Magazine and some of your complaints have a bit of merit, and obviously we'd love to do an even better job of this next year. But keep in mind these issues:

      1) It is extrememly hard to "break" a computer in such a way that it is a) fixable via phone and b) something that could conceivably be blamed on the computer and not, say, a third-party application. What problems would you suggest we introduce?
      2) Given the simplicity of the problems we presented, we would exp
      • Howdy, I'm the editor in chief of Mobile Magazine and some of your complaints have a bit of merit, and obviously we'd love to do an even better job of this next year.

        Thanx for the politeness. I'm glad to see that people don't necessarily get defensive when valid complaints are voiced.

        1) It is extrememly hard to "break" a computer in such a way that it is a) fixable via phone and b) something that could conceivably be blamed on the computer and not, say, a third-party application. What problems would you

        • Hmm... how about basic hardware issues (like, my keyboard is broken, or i get random spots on my monitor) or OS issues (like, I lost my files, or why is the system slow at times)

          You still aren't quite there: These problems can't be fixed via telephone. If your monitor is hosed, you need a new monitor. Telephone support can't be fairly tested with made up issues like "I have spots on my monitor." It has to be something they can legitimately address.

          I'm sorry, please send URLs to reference where "their

  • maybe it really isn't about service (Score:3, Insightful)

    by yagu ( 721525 ) * <yayagu.gmail@com> on Thursday June 16, 2005 @05:45PM (#12836799) Journal

    I've posted on this before... one of many episodes of trying to get support. In this particular case, I pretty much KNEW what the problem was, which as I'm sure many/most slashdotters also try to determine before resorting to call tech support.

    From the word "go", (ironic), it was clear my dance with HP (love their product... a laptop zx5000) was less about them helping me solve my problem and more about them doing anything they possibly could to avoid doing warranty work! And, once they discovered I had a dual boot machine, they immediately jumped to the claim that dual-booting my machine voided the warranty, though not one of the support people I talked to (I talked to four) could point to the words in the warranty whereby dual-booting my machine really did void the warranty.

    This was not a unique experience for me... my typical experience is usually along the lines of:

    • reboot the machine (as if I'd not tried that multiple times)
    • uninstall the drivers around specific bad behavior
    • re-install drivers
    • complete OS re-install or system re-image.

    I don't know what HP and other companies are smoking when they put together "support" staff, but based on empirical and andecdotal evidence they don't "get it". Especially for the slashdot type (not being elitist... just pragmatic) it would be nice to be able to get to a support call where you either get to skip the preamble (see above list) and immediately discuss symptoms and possible causes along with solutions.

    So, bottom line, I see the problem being:

    • Companies create support centers as a first line of defense by either:
      • creating so much FUD and confusion to the uninitiated consumer they give up in frustration and just go on living with their "problem"
      • arguing with the more savvy consumers on the merits of whether or not warranty service applies
    • Companies creating support centers in the belief that support is doable with non-expert staff using only a flow-chart of "troubleshooting techniques" and "countermeasures"
    • Companies create support centers ignoring that often consumers are quite technical and have done most of the work up front and are ready to talk shop by the time they call a support line. This lack of consideration to the consumer ends up costing the company in good will, the company in time spent for support that really isn't, and for the consumer in wasted time jumping through unnecessary initial hoops they'd already considered.

    Oh, and I don't see this getting better soon, if ever. Sigh.

    • Actually, I've heard that HP doesn't support dual-boot more than once.

      I once read a story that said that one guy called tech support, who said to install a second copy of Windows 2000, which didn't fix the problem (which, IIRC, was hardware related). He then called again, and got told that dual-boot wasn't supported, and the phone monkey voided the warranty. So, this guy had to PAY to get the second copy removed, AND get his problem fixed (he went to a local computer repair shop).

      This was in PC World, and
    • Companies create support centers ignoring that often consumers are quite technical and have done most of the work up front and are ready to talk shop by the time they call a support line.

      Every once in a while you get a good tech on the line. I used to do support in College, so when I called up Apple about an XServe lockup problem I told him the symptom, the checks I had done, the results, and where I thought the problem might lie, he said, "my god, this is the best call I've ever had. Let me give you an

  • Acer deserve their bottom place, avoid at all cost (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Peter Cooper ( 660482 ) on Thursday June 16, 2005 @05:49PM (#12836821) Homepage Journal
    Acer deserve the bottom place in this experiment. My father's Aspire failed six months after he bought it, and he sent it back. It took almost three months, a gang of lawyers, and an Internet campaign [winpe.com] to get it back from them fully repaired.

    We rapidly found out that other people had had even worse problems, and that Acer's support system is not to be relied upon to get the job done quickly. As such, I've been put off a manufacturer that had previously seemed decent. Avoid at all costs.
  • I worked for a Stream International for a few months. When I worked there they provided support for HP, Compaq, Dell and a few other smaller PC manufacturers. I had just finished my computing degree and seeing as there were no decent jobs to be had, I took a job at Stream.

    The support we provided was shit, simple as that. A good 90% of reps knew nothing about computers before starting work and were lucky to get 2 weeks of training. The 'mentors' who were supposed to train us were useless as well. There was
  • I own an ABS Mayhem G1. Dual hyperthreaded 2.8GHz P4, 1GB memory, 80GB HDD, ATI 9600 video card, 15" widescreen. Dual boots Suse 9.2 and XP. Price? $900 flat one year ago.

    Tech support, in a word, blows. I've learned not to even try. Twice I was going to return the machine to them, but they never called me back with an RTV number, and I gave up and fixed it myself.

    I don't care, because the machine was so cheap. The BIOS chip falls out, the machine occasionally overheats and shuts down, the power bri
    • I own an ABS Mayhem G1 [...] The BIOS chip falls out, the machine occasionally overheats and shuts down, the power brick smoked itself, and the case on top of where the hard drive is has the imprint of my palm burned into it because the drive isn't cooled right. Screws rattle about in the case. Battery life is a cool 72 minutes.

      What did you expect with a name like that, then?! I bet you have 'Neverpay' motor insurance [ibras.dk] as well...

  • Yet another Apple slam (Score:4, Insightful)

    by EvilStein ( 414640 ) <spam@BALDWINpbp.net minus author> on Thursday June 16, 2005 @06:13PM (#12836988)
    I worked as an AppleCare support rep. If a customer doesn't feel that the issue is resolved (and clearly these "testers" didn't) then all they have to do is ask to have the issue escalated.
    About the broken Wifi "test" - there are *so many* brands of 802.11 base stations out on the market that if you're not getting any network information at all, and the computer thinks everything is ok (Tiger has a nice "Network Diagnostic" utility) then suggesting that you contact the manufacturer of the 802.11 base station certainly isn't a bad thing at all. It's a *third party product* (I'm goign to assume that they did't try with an Airport Base Station, because if they did, Apple would have addressed it.) and Apple's policy was to not even try to support 3rd party products.
    The write up was pretty vague, and that's sad.

  • Comment removed (Score:3)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday June 16, 2005 @06:22PM (#12837044)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I have had nothing but problems with their Tech Support. The laptop I have works excellently...well, when it works. I've sent it back to them no less than 3 times for issues. First time, my HDD died. I was on the phone for about 2 hours while we discussed ways to test whether it was really dead or just sorta dead and therefore not covered by the warranty...after sending it in, I called for a status update. Response? "We have no record of your laptop." They said they would look around and call back. After th
  • When I had a problem with my iPod I just went to their website and told them that the right earbud was blown out. Replacement earbuds arrived at my apartment 2:00 the next day.
  • This is slashdot, we do our own installs we replace what's broken.

    A more interesting test would be to see who does the best job of replacing broken hardware.

    I'm pretty tired of dealing with garbage tech support when some peice of hardware is broken, replacing and fixing it at their end should be the norm.

    Replacing it before I send it in would be amazing but I understand the problems involved with such a setup.

    Refunding postage would be nice though :(
  • I had to call Toshiba tech support a couple of times. Both times got somebody in India even if they've claimed they are in Canada. BUT they were willing to help and took their time to find the answers. The only problem was with their help --- well, it wasn't entirely correct, not quite helpful so to speak. But Toshiba has a wealth of technical information on-line, and going through all the docs I've found the right information anyway.

    But the bottom line is that my Tosh laptop is very reliable, so I don't h

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