BBC Offers Beethoven Symphonies for Download 420
Simon80 writes "BBC Radio 3 is making performances by the BBC Philharmonic of Beethoven's 6th to 9th symphonies available for free download for the next few days only, as the second part of a trial to 'test listeners appetite for downloads'. During the first part, the first 5 symphonies were offered, and over 650,000 people downloaded them."
Earlier Performances? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Earlier Performances? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Earlier Performances? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.commontunes.org/beethovenssymphonies [commontunes.org]
its the 1st 5 as grabbed from the bbc
Re:Earlier Performances? (Score:2)
Re:Earlier Performances? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Earlier Performances? (Score:5, Informative)
I've always wondered why there isn't more of this (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I've always wondered why there isn't more of th (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I've always wondered why there isn't more of th (Score:2, Informative)
Given that most classical music was written by composers who have been dead for much longer than 90 years, there is no fee payable to the estate of the composer in most cases because the copyright of the composer has expired. Copyright should expire after a fixed period of time according to the US Constitution:
Re:I've always wondered why there isn't more of th (Score:3, Informative)
Not true. By Beethoven's time (early 1800s), the modern symphony orchestra format was well established, and his compositions are played by modern symphonies in their original forms. Bach (early 1700s) didn't write any symphonies, because symphony orchestras didin't exist at the time. But he wrote a lot of choral pieces, a lot for organ/harpsichord, and mu
Re:Old non-CR music scores are quite playable! (Score:3, Informative)
I find that hard to call. In the UK, dues/royalty to the Performing Rights Society are calculated on a per-concert basis, according to the tariffs I've seen. There is a performer's habit of mixing old and new in many concert programmes, which means that if there is even just one short newer work in a programme that is mostly made up of out-of-copyright stuff, then the concert as a whole is in fo
Re:I've always wondered why there isn't more of th (Score:5, Interesting)
Not easy to be 1st Chair Violinist... (Score:5, Informative)
All that, and they have to be a hot violin soloist too. It's really quite a set of responsibilities. No shit they get paid well.
Unfortunately the percussionists in the orchestra are the ones at the bottom of the totem pole. This was a fact of life that was quite depressing for my husband, who's a percussionist and was a member of the New Jersey Percussion Ensemble in the early part of the 1970s. Instead of classical, he took his chances on rock.
Re:Not easy to be 1st Chair Violinist... (Score:5, Informative)
Rest assured that the first chair violonist from one of the major orchestra in the world makes a whole lot more than this, and this is just the salary. Then there are guest works here and there, lessons, whatever.
from this link [violinist.com]
Re:I've always wondered why there isn't more of th (Score:5, Informative)
Yes. The problem is, they're not very good. Unlike popular music, where someone can start to learn guitar and become a world-famous "musician" a few years later (in some cases, this order is reversed), a good quality symphony orchestra contains 50 or more musicians, rarely with less than fifteen years of experience.
As a general rule, if you're a professional classical musician, you can't afford to give away your work for free -- not to mention the costs of renting a recording studio which can fit an entire symphony orchestra. If you're an amateur classical musician (defined as "has a full time job which isn't music"), then unless you're really exceptional, you're not good enough to make recordings which people will want to listen to.
Re:I've always wondered why there isn't more of th (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I've always wondered why there isn't more of th (Score:4, Interesting)
The main reason for all of this: supply of classical musicians vastly exceeds demand. On the supply side, music schools, universities and conservatories worldwide are graduating thousands of performers of classical music every year. On the demand side, you can count the number of classical music professional orchestras in most countries in the low single digits; the reality is that the market for classical music concerts is much smaller than the market for popular music concerts.
However, what this means for the future of open-licensed freely downloadable recordings of classical music is less clear. There is no shortage of brilliant musicians already employed full-time in other paying jobs like music teaching who might consider getting together with others to perform classical works under some sort of open licence, like one of the Creative Commons licences [creativecommons.org]. I suspect that as more people become aware of the open-licensing phenomenon in other media, more classical music performers will help create a similar bandwagon for classical music recordings.
Re:I've always wondered why there isn't more of th (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I've always wondered why there isn't more of th (Score:2)
Sure, the recording of the performance is still copyrighted, but aren't there any "free classical performers" out there?
Is this true? I thought copyright was only awarded to ORIGINAL work not performances of such works?
This article [wikipedia.org] at wikipedia states that for one to claim Copyright over a work three basic criteria have to be satifisied: skill, originality and work.
While skill and work criteria are certainly satifisied, originality is not. I'm no legal expert but I expect that one can't claim copyri
Re:I've always wondered why there isn't more of th (Score:2)
> Free classical music downloads.
Just think: our favorite pop hits might be available 200 years from now, too.
Check the bargain bins (Score:3, Insightful)
It probably takes a bit more coordination than the average popular music performer to make a good classical recording -- at least one that requires any significantly sized orchestra. (Conductors, venues, recording equipment, lots of performers, practicing performing together cohesively, etc etc.) I suspect that most orchestras able to pull it off
That is AWESOME! (Score:5, Informative)
Does anyone have links to the first 5 (if it is even still legal to download them from anywhere)?
Anyway, this sort of thing is very cool. I have not listened to much Beethoven (aside from bits and peices in movies and such), so something like this is an excellent opportunity. If anyone knows any places to legally download performances of other classics, please post them.
I love getting free, good music from the internet. The Internet Achive's [archive.org] Audio section is my very good friend, as is LegalTorrents [legaltorrents.com]. Granted, that is completely different music from this, but still it is awesome to be able to enjoy music being made by people who love making music more than making money.
Re:That is AWESOME! (Score:2, Interesting)
Thank you! (Score:2)
my new scene.org ID: berianir
Re:That is AWESOME! (Score:2, Interesting)
Why? is it really too hard to spend money on music? or is a 5 dollar bargain cd of weiner philharmoniker too pricey
If anyone knows any places to legally download performances of other classics, please post them.
http://www.itunes.com/ [itunes.com]
Re:That is AWESOME! (Score:2)
At first I was going to complain about that, but then I thought it was kind of neat, to get a bit of background info about the pieces
Not too sure about the stuff about how and when to download it, though.. They could've scrapped the talk about the downloading stuff, just put that in the datapath (or whatever it is called) of the mp3, so you can read instead of having to listen to that.
Overall, nice shot.
Re:That is AWESOME! (Score:5, Insightful)
As a semi-pro musician, I get really, really tired of seeing other geeks bash musicians who charge for their work.
Certainly, there are performers who do it for nothing but the money - but coincidentally enough, they usually suck royally as musicians.
A large number of musicians charge for what they do because they like to do it, and if enough people are willing to pay them for their music, they can quit their day job, and spend more time creating the art that they love to do.
What's so bad about that?
Re:That is AWESOME! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:That is AWESOME! (Score:3, Insightful)
You're trying to tell me complete songs come to you as devine insperation? ... I think not.
You try to write software a line or two at a time, and the obvious argument in the other direction is that more than a few "commercially successful" songs have been based on a couple of bars.
It's not as obvious that all music has to be free right now, but musicians ca
Test Results (Score:5, Funny)
- status: complete
result: people like free downloads.
TEST #2: Ongoing Appetite for free downloads
- status: incomplete
result: pending...
I just cant wait to see what the results are!!
A warning to audiophiles (Score:4, Informative)
Another warning to audiophiles (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Another warning to audiophiles (Score:5, Funny)
Re:A warning to audiophiles (Score:2, Interesting)
Examples of places where you can reduce quality are after loud sounds followed by relatively quiet sound, for example Wild Thing.
Re:A warning to audiophiles (Score:2)
Re:A warning to audiophiles (Score:3, Informative)
Average Bit Rate = Average Bit Rate for mp3 encoded with the Variable Bit Rate Setting.
Re:A warning to audiophiles (Score:2)
Re:A warning to audiophiles (Score:5, Informative)
VBR works with a constant QUALITY (or badness) setting and tries to guarantee that the quality won't degrade below a certain level by letting the bitrate float up and down as necessary. The advantage is that the bitrate is perfectly used up and does not waste precious bits on plain parts (e.g. silence) of a piece of music.
The problem is that there is no real scale for quality so arbitrary numbers get assigned (for the ogg-encoder 1-10). This let's people struggle over determining which quality is ``good enough''.
Another problem is that the target size of the file is not predictable. Usually it falls within certain limits but if the encoder struggles with a complex piece of music, the output file size can deviate considerably.
ABR is a compromise between the two, It let's the bitrate float but guarantees a specified AVERAGE bitrate. Thus it is more efficient than CBR (although not as efficient as VBR because it has to establish somewhat tighter control and has to let the quality drop if it threatens to exceed the average too much) but also predictable in the size of the resulting file, though not as precisely as CBR (though the deviation is very very slim in most cases). In almost all cases ABR is preferable to CBR if VBR isn't an option.
Re:A warning to audiophiles (Score:2)
I've always wondered why MP3 and other audio formats are not encoded in two passes much like variable bitrate video encoding (XviD, DivX, MPEG-2 (DVD) are all done in this way). The first pass is used to analyse the compressibility of the content so the second pass can scale the bitrate more efficiently to obtain the average bitrate needed to fit the content onto your chosen media (CD, DVD etc).
Anyone?
Audio is much smaller than video; therefore... (Score:3, Insightful)
I've always wondered why MP3 and other audio formats are not encoded in two passes much like variable bitrate video encoding
Probably because audio is small enough that the difference between fitting eight albums on a CD-R and fitting nine albums on a CD-R isn't very wasteful, unlike DivX video where you try to fit the entire length of a feature film (or half of one) within a tight window of 695 to 700 MiB.
RMS error isn't everything (Score:3, Informative)
Root-mean-square error as a measure of fidelity works with processes that do not use a psychoacoustic model, but it does not take into account the various kinds of masking that the human ear uses and that codecs such as MP3 and Vorbis exploit. There is no known accurate measure of perceptual audio fidelity.
Re:A warning to audiophiles (Score:3, Informative)
CDEX [sourceforge.net] is a standard tool for ripping CD's to uncompressed WAV files or straight to MP3. But it's Windows software.
Other tools are listed in this short guide [fifthgate.org] (the first Google hit for 'linux ripping music', without quotes).
Re:A warning to audiophiles (Score:3, Informative)
Re:A warning to audiophiles (Score:3, Interesting)
After a while people noticed that the changes in the bitrate were in some cases too audible and reduced the illusion and immersion of the encoded audio.
So, Average Bit Rate tries to avoid that by keeping the variable bitrate somewhere around the specified bitr
Typical (Score:5, Funny)
Love,
The Republican Party
Re:Typical (Score:5, Funny)
It was the loaves and fishes thing that started it. And you thought they hate bittorrent.
Re:Typical (Score:4, Funny)
What an odd test! (Score:2)
This is good but should go farther (Score:5, Insightful)
I always thought that most countries should those days invest a non-negligeable part of their cultur budget to set up huge on-line databases. I am amazed to see the cost to maintain dusty municipal libraries while I have still no way to get all those music and novels which are in the public domain.
It is still the same tune: when will people in charge realize the power of digital information. One book in a library can be read by one person at one time. It gets wear out, it can be stolen. A book in a library can be read by what ? at most 50 person a year ? How much does it cost to be stored handled, fixed ? That's ridiculous. And municipal libraries should be the place to find computer to access those database if you do not own one.
Also, for that BBC initiative, I read:
Download disclaimer:
The BBC grants you a 7-day, non-exclusive licence to download this Beethoven Experience audio.
You may not copy, reproduce, edit, adapt, alter, republish, post, broadcast, transmit, make available to the public, or otherwise use this audio in any way except for your own personal, non-commercial use.
So I can't give that piece of culture to my grand'ma and my little nephew ? That sucks.
--Go Debian!
Re:This is good but should go farther (Score:3, Insightful)
So I can't give that piece of culture to my grand'ma and my little nephew ? That sucks.
That's pretty standard stuff. You can find very similar disclaimers on CD and cassettes. The point is that you can only *give* it to granny (that is, hand over the CD and part with it yourself).
Of course, nobody's do
Re:This is good but should go farther (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:This is good but should go farther (Score:2)
You're right though, those disclaimers don't make any sense for medium-less music. I have a feeling that music providers are at such a loss to contain the whole digital-copying phenomenon that they're clinging to their old legalese, or are unable to come up with new legalese that'd cover digital files efficiently. At any rate, I'm quite sure they don't believe in it at all, and just put it there because they always put it there, more or less.
Re:This is good but should go farther (Score:3, Funny)
Re:This is good but should go farther (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:This is good but should go farther (Score:2)
If I understood correctly, in that case the BBC is the copyright owner of the, thus these gentlemen could be "one degre smarter" than the usual owners and put all the stuff under creative commons. They could later on distribute all the deep-trance and rap remix of it
--
Go Debian!
Re:This is good but should go farther (Score:2)
Re:This is good but should go farther (Score:2)
hmm - wonders... does transmit include streaming it from my powerbook to my stereo via AirportExpress?
Classic n00b question... (Score:2)
Re:Classic n00b question... (Score:2)
Re:Classic n00b question... (Score:3, Informative)
Symphonies are orchestral works. The Moonlight Sonata (Mondschein, as it's called in German), (no. 14, opus 27 no 2 in C sharp minor) is a solo piece written for a piano. Check wikipedia for a detailed discussion of symphonies [wikipedia.org] and sonatas [wikipedia.org].
Re: Classic n00b question... (Score:4, Funny)
> Mondschein, as it's called in German
Yet somehow "Moonshine Sonata" doesn't convey quite the right idea in the Appalachian and Ozark states.
Re: (Score:2)
They will soon be sued... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:They will soon be sued... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:They will soon be sued... (Score:4, Funny)
Aside: Heritage of CDs (Score:5, Interesting)
I think a better factor was that the disc diameter had to be able to fit within 5 1/4 inch disc drive bays, and then that manufacturing technology at the time only permitted a certain spiral density.
Still having a musical heuristic to validate its use as a musical storage format is a good idea.
Re:Aside: Heritage of CDs (Score:5, Informative)
In fact the length of an audio CD is related to the length of a video tape.
The sampling rate of 44.1 kHz is inherited from a method of converting digital audio into an analog video signal for storage on video tape, which was the most affordable way to store it at the time the CD specification was being developed. A device that turns an analog audio signal into PCM audio, which in turn is changed into an analog video signal is called a PCM adaptor. This technology could store 6 samples (3 samples per each stereo channel) in a single horizontal line. A standard NTSC video signal has 245 usable lines per field, and 59.94 fields a second, which works out at 44,056 samples/second. Similarly PAL has 294 lines and 50 fields, which gives 44,100 samples/second. This system could either store 14-bit samples with some error correction, or 16-bit samples with almost no error correction. There was a long debate over whether to use 14 or 16 bit samples and/or 44.056 k or 44.1 k samples/s when the Sony/Philips taskforce designed the compact disc; 16 bits and 44.1 k samples/s prevailed. The Sony PCM-1610 and PCM-1630 are well-known examples of PCM-adaptors used in conjunction with the Sony U-Matic VCR.
From [wikipedia.org]
A global bandwidth drain! (Score:2)
Slashdotted! (Score:2)
Wouldn't this be a perfect use of BitTorrents? Is there some good reason why they are not using BitTorrents or are they just unaware of the technology?
Re:Slashdotted! (Score:3, Insightful)
TRACKERLESS torrent (Score:2, Interesting)
Grab the torrent here: http://home.no.net/nexus/beethoven_symphonies_tra
Now, this is my first atempt at a trackerless torrent and you will need a client with trackerless support to use it (Newest Azureus and BitComet comes to mind)
talk, talk, talk (Score:2)
Prefixed natter (Score:3)
Still, cynics aside it's still jolly nice of the BBC
The record companies (Score:3, Interesting)
This proves the truth - record companies just don't like competition.
Good Recordings! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Insightful)
Listen to the whole thing. The Ninth is a heck of a lot more than just the Ode to Joy.
I agree that if you only listen to the Ode to Joy, and take it out of the context of the greater work, then it is mindless triumphalism.
For this reason I really, really hate those "best of the classics"-type mix albums with the most-well-known fragments of classical music.
They're the musical equivalent to sports videos with "Greatest goals" etc. Watching an amazing goal is fun. But it is nowhere near the same experience as watching a full game at the edge of your seat, and experienceing an amazing last-minute goal in its context.
Re:Hmmm (Score:2)
Listen to the whole thing. The Ninth is a heck of a lot more than just the Ode to Joy.
I reckon the 9th Symphony 67 minutes. Ode to Joy is but a tiny fraction of it.
Incidentally all of Beethoven's symphonies are very long. The symphonies range from around 25 minutes and the 9th is 67 minutes. It should be a crime to listen to only part of it.
Re: Hmmm (Score:5, Interesting)
> I reckon the 9th Symphony 67 minutes.
It depends on the pace set by the conductor. I have copies ranging from 59'43 to 69'34.
> Incidentally all of Beethoven's symphonies are very long.
And longer than expected at the time. Famously, during the premiere performance of the 3rd, someone in the audience shouted that he'd "give a kreutzer" for it to be done and over with.
Re: Hmmm (Score:3, Informative)
BTW we just succeeded in slashdotting Auntie Beeb.
Re:Hmmm (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah -- that's the best part!
That's the way I like to watch the news too -- just fast forward to the explosions. Everything else is just an appetizer.
Re:Hmmm (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Hmmm (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Funny)
Been a while since I've been in a chill enough mood to sit down and enjoy them though, damn 5 second atten-hehe, i googled "boobs", hehe
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Informative)
Here is the text of the Schiller poem used in the last movement--I think flag waving is a stretch:
Joy!
Joy, beautiful spark of God,
Daughter of Elysium,
We enter, fire-drunk,
Heavenly, your shrine.
Your magic reunites
That which custom has strongly split;
All humans will become brothers
[Schiller's original:
What custom's sword has parted;
Beggars become princes' brothers]
Where your soft wing whiles.
Whoever has succeeded in the great attempt
To be a friend of a friend;
Whoever has achieved a lovely wife
Mix in your joy!
Yes, also whoever only one soul
Calls his own around the world!
And whoever has never known of this,
Steal away crying out of this group!
All beings drink joy
At the breasts of nature;
All the good, all the bad
Follow her trail of roses.
She gave us kisses and vines,
A friend, proven in death;
Great pleasure was given to the worm,
And the cherub stands before God.
Glad, like his sun flies
Through heaven's splendid plan,
Run, brothers, your race,
Joyful, like a hero to the victory.
Be embraced, millions!
This kiss to all the world!
Brothers, over the starry firmament
Must live a loving father.
Do you bow down, millions?
Do you sense the Creator, world?
Seek him beyond the starry firmament!
He must dwell beyond the stars.
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Interesting)
I believe music is like wine: when you start drinking some, you prefer the sweet, easy-going ones. Then as your tastebuds develop, you start getting more and more into wines that you once thought were bitter and undrinkable, and you start "understanding" them more. What I mean is, music, like wine, is an acquired taste.
Re:Hmmm (Score:2)
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Informative)
Besides, Mahler is also a bit pompous (but I like his music).
Re:Hmmm (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Hmmm (Score:2)
Re:Hmmm (Score:2)
Re:Hmmm (Score:3, Insightful)
True, yet early music should not be forgotten once your ear is trained. The music that you are so fond of today was built off of the music that you've 'grown out of'. The building procedure was hundreds of years long, but it is the foundation. I still love to listen to Haydn, Mozart, Shubert, Brahms, Smetana, and other baroque-early romantic composers as well as Crumb, Berg, Scrabin, and other modern composers (and everything in the middle, plus
Re:Hmmm (Score:4, Insightful)
Thank goodness- I might have downloaded it (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What about sound quality of classical downloads (Score:2)
In fact, the only google hit for "iPod Sunday" is BBC's own Jargon Buster. A few more for "iPodectomy", but only enough to almost fill one google hit page, and one of those are of course the Jargon Buster. One has to wonder if there isn't enough jargon already, since they have to make stuff up?
Re:What about sound quality of classical downloads (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What about sound quality of classical downloads (Score:5, Interesting)
For encoding classical music, AAC is far better than the alternatives. Ogg Vorbis is close, but last time I checked had some issues with harpsichords (not sure if they're fixed now, but encoding, say, a Brandenbug Concerto would result in some quite unpleasant distortions).
If you have a license for the Dolby Pro codec, then you will find it's quality to be superb. If not, the only source of music encoded with it that I know of is iTMS. The PsyTEL AAC encoder is also very good (close to the Dolby Pro encoder, passing it in some areas), but the last time I looked it was Windows-only - although it's a command-line app so it probably runs fine with WINE.
Re:Torrent with all the symphonies (Score:2)
no seriously,
DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!
Re:Torrent with all the symphonies (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Recordings (Score:2)
Re:where to find 1-5? (Score:3, Informative)