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Band Invites Music Copying 248

Posted by Zonk from the distribution-to-the-people dept.
R C writes "The BBC is currently running a story about the band Carbon Silicon, including former members of The Clash and Generation X. The report claims that the band is encouraging fans to download tracks, demos, and works in progress from their website . Talking of re-capturing the culture of recording a tape to lend to your friends, they believe that the free availability of their music won't affect sales, and that the availability extra material like tracks in development will attract and engage even more fans."
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Band Invites Music Copying

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  • OSS (Score:5, Interesting)

    by fembots ( 753724 ) on Sunday July 17, 2005 @03:43PM (#13088268) Homepage
    What we need now is Open Source Songs. Tracks in development are released and fans can chip in and make those songs better.

    • Re:OSS (Score:5, Informative)

      by Kynmore ( 861364 ) on Sunday July 17, 2005 @03:47PM (#13088298)
      That's why the Creative Commons was conceived. Check it out here [creativecommons.org]

    • Re:OSS (Score:3, Interesting)

      by roman_mir ( 125474 )
      Tracks in development are released and fans can chip in and make those songs better. - Yeah, ok, once you are done defining what 'better' means, we could then just write a randomizer and a 'make this music better' algorythm and that would be it. The way to make music. But you know what, maybe this is how they make music nowadays. In fact I am quite sure it is!

      (disclamer: I don't listen to music anymore.)

      • If you followed the standard open source model, you would download the work, make some changes, and submit the changes back to the maintainer. If the maintainer thought they were better, they would be included. If they didn't then they would be rejected. You would, of course, be free to fork - create your own version of the track and allow others to download it, and submit modifications to you.
    • just imagine the licencing difficulty of making sure submitted samples were legal....

      Great idea though - I do sometimes think of songs I love and how I'd improve the lyrics.

      • just imagine the licencing difficulty of making sure submitted samples were legal....

        What, if, say, EMIBM Music were to release samples they own for the OSM community, only for Scony BMG Music to later claim that they were, in fact, the owner of those samples (through some obfuscated route of alleged acquisition), and that their inclusion in OSM projects constitutes theft of their intellectual property?

        On another note, I sure hope Darl McBride isn't looking to the music industry for his next job.

        • Re:OSS (Score:2, Interesting)

          by kryten_nl ( 863119 )
          I'm starting up Grokmusic.org as we speak.... KN
        • Two Words: Good Faith.

          EBIBM said they owned the copyright, we believe them. Scony says otherwise, they spend a month or two seeing if a Judge will give an injunction against us using them while the multi-year battle with EBIBM takes place.

          sound familiar?

    • Re:OSS (Score:3, Informative)

      by Yaa 101 ( 664725 )
      That you can do with modtracking...
      • I suppose he's meaning using trackers to compose modules, normally related to as "tracking". As most modules are a lot smaller then their mp3 renderings, they were at that time (in my case the end of the last millenia!) normally distributed in zipped source format. A way of distribution that is inherently open source. And even though open source was/is more or less unknown in the tracking community, it still had the same spirit "go ahead remix/alter it, as long as you give me credits for my original work".
        • Oh, sorry for answering myself, however I forgot to mention that if you want to play with anything more current than FT2 or IT3 (running under DOS, ugh!) or MPT (defunct since a couple of years), the most modern tracker out there seems to be Renoise [renoise.com]. The shareware version contains more or less everything except WAV rendering.
          • Cheesetracker, on Linux. (it kind of try to be IT (impulse tracker) with a modern interface)

            And it's also very easy even for non-musician to play with and have almost-decent result. (Not something you would sell, but definately fun time creating sounds/music -- which should be the point anyway)
            • Checked it out, and doesn't look very modern in my eyes. As you said, it's a clone of IT3, and even missing a few features. It for sure might be good enough for the amateurs, as you're suggesting, but I wouldn't want to use it on a semipro level. There's another alternative too, Soundtracker, which is supposed to be a FT2 clone, but it really doesn't seem to progressing very fast that either. Basically, if you're really into tracking, you should use either a PC with Windows, or (debatable) an old Amiga, C64
    • wouldn't that mean that the artists would publish the tablature along with the music? music I think would fall under something different that "open source". Hell, I can buy tons of guitar books that have all kinds of music for songs, and that is perfeectly legal. now, wasn't it trent resnor who put out a song in garage band format and encoraged people to play with it? that would be "open source" music. on ce you lay down a guitar track, unless it's pure digital and the notes can be altered, it's kinda

    • There have been experiments with this (Score:4, Interesting)

      by jd ( 1658 ) <imipakNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Sunday July 17, 2005 @04:02PM (#13088402) Homepage Journal
      I'm not sure any have been an overwhelming success, but I know of several groups that have released GPL music. I spent some time working on GPLed movies, but the interest wasn't there at that point, so that effort is temporarily on hold, but music is another matter.


      GPLed music shouldn't be too hard, as you can start by GPLing scores, MIDI files and the like. The samples would then logically follow (as they are derived works, so must be GPL). Editing at the more basic level would seem easiest, so that is why I'm thinking that is where you'd really want to start.


      Music editors (and video editors) fill Freshmeat on a daily basis, so there's no shortage of ways of editing the final tracks, though convincing the RIAA that it is legal might be another matter.

    • Internet Archive Open Source Audio (Score:5, Informative)

      by Xtifr ( 1323 ) on Sunday July 17, 2005 @04:10PM (#13088458) Homepage
      Link here [archive.org]. They've only got about 6800 recordings so far, but it's only going to get bigger.

    • Re:OSS (Score:2)

      by Tx ( 96709 )
      There are some fan remixes included on Public Enemy's Revolverlution album, in fact the remix of "Shut Em Down" is one of the best things on the album. However as a general idea, I have very low expectation of what would be produced that way, music is not like software.
      • Actually music itself is just like software.

        Except MTV and RIAA prefer selling you music + an image.

        • Re:OSS (Score:2)

          by Tx ( 96709 )
          Actually music itself is just like software.

          Not in terms of it being necessarily improved by having alot of "developers", trust me on that.
    • http://ccmixter.org/ [ccmixter.org]

  • Article Text (ICOS) (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 17, 2005 @03:44PM (#13088271)

    A new rock group featuring former members of The Clash and Generation X has taken a novel approach to the issue of piracy by urging their fans to copy their music.

    Carbon Silicon make all their recordings freely available online, and actively encourage bootlegging or filming of their gigs.

    They even attack the current waves of litigation surrounding illegally copied music in their song Gangs Of England, which includes the line, "if you want the record, press record".

    "What we're talking about here is fans who are sharing music," Tony James, formally of Sigue Sigue Sputnik and Generation X - who formed the group with ex-Clash guitarist Mick Jones - told BBC World Service's The Music Biz programme.

    "It's just like you did when you were young, when you made a cassette of your favourite tracks you'd love, and would give it to a friend and say 'listen to this.'

    "Everyone's going to say, 'hang on - if they've got it already, why are they going to buy the record?' But what we find is actually, people really like buying the records."

    Demos online

    The music industry has been grappling with issues of piracy over the last few years, in particular since broadband became popular.

    Artists who have backed anti-piracy campaigns, include Metallica, Tatu and Peter Gabriel.

    But James said that he considered the internet to be the "most exciting thing that's happened to rock and roll".

    In particular, he pointed out that people could now record songs in their bedrooms and make them available to the world, and new artists no longer needed "a label, or a manager, or a BBC Radio playlist".

    Carbon Silicon use their website to show the development of their songs. Demos are put on the web so people can track how they came together.

    "We feel that it's almost like if I could go and watch Lennon and McCartney in the studio making Sgt Pepper, and watch them on the internet making that record, that would be a really exciting thing," James explained.

    "So I think what we'll see in the future is people will pay to be there - to be part of the creative process. That's a really exciting thing.

    "Our ideas of copyright, and what constitutes a record, will change in the future."

  • Slashdot attack! (Score:5, Funny)

    by RickHunter ( 103108 ) on Sunday July 17, 2005 @03:45PM (#13088284)

    Unfortunately, their web server is now a melted mass of carbon and silicon. I hope Slashdotters buy a load of CDs to replace that bugger!

  • License (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Andrew Tanenbaum ( 896883 ) on Sunday July 17, 2005 @03:46PM (#13088285)
    I see that this is free as in beer, but is it free as in freedom? (can I alter and distribute?)

  • Nice, but... (Score:2, Funny)

    by Seumas ( 6865 ) *
    Maybe they can invite people to rename their band. "Carbon Silicon"?!

    Plus, they clearly are terrorists. Patriotic westerners (Brits, Americans, etc) all know that if you give something away, you are only encouraging the terrorists to do more evil.
    • Patriotic westerners (Brits, Americans, etc) all know that if you give something away, you are only encouraging the terrorists to do more evil.


      So the more we give things away, the more female terrorists will make porn films with motorcycle stuntmen? I don't see the problem.

    • That is possibly the best argument for prostitution in a modern Neo-Con Driven WestWorld
  • We will have to see if it works, but somehow I think it will work out for them. It will keep them out of recordcompanies grip I hope.
    • I don't know if it'll keep them out of the RIAA's grip. On the other hand, these are all old-hands, so are probably fed up with record companys and their dodgy sales practices.

      What I am hoping is that they are successful enough that they get good radio (and other media) coverage. That would not spell doom for the existing record theocracies (money is their religion) but it might force them to conceed that copying CAN be lawful, CAN be constructive and CAN be good for the industry. In turn, they'd then hav

  • Novel idea? (Score:5, Informative)

    by yotto ( 590067 ) on Sunday July 17, 2005 @03:52PM (#13088333) Homepage
    Wow! Too bad Nobody else [garageband.com] does this!

  • Nice but not unique (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Knome_fan ( 898727 ) on Sunday July 17, 2005 @03:52PM (#13088336)
    For example recently I discovered http://magnatune.com/ [magnatune.com] which is a whole label following the same idea.

    I think people should really encourage this and btw. they have some pretty nice music there.

    (No, I'm in no way affiliated to them, I just like the concept and hand a fun afternoon recently listening through their offerings.)

  • Why fight 'em, join 'em (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jimson ( 516491 ) on Sunday July 17, 2005 @03:54PM (#13088351) Homepage
    You're music is going to get copied no matter what. All attempts to prevent consumers from making copies of CDs are bound to fail. There will always be a work around.

    Instead, what bands should be doing is embracing the ease that they can get their material out there. You no longer have to beg and plead with radio stations or record companies. My band, The Dirt (shameless plug http://www.tractorgrease.com/ [tractorgrease.com]) is taking that approach. You put a lot of time in recording your self and mixing/mastering tracks and then just give away your music? Well that's the reality of it if you want people to listen, especially as a new band.

    People need to feel like fans, not criminals when they try to get music from their favorite bands.

  • The problem is... (Score:3, Informative)

    by saskboy ( 600063 ) on Sunday July 17, 2005 @03:56PM (#13088367) Homepage Journal
    In North America at least, the radio stations are locked into deals I've heard where they are bound to play primarily what's on the "charts". The charts are determined by Billboard and other RIAA shills, so an independent artist is unlikely to get real radio play over a wide area from chain-owned stations.

    This makes it hard for any artist trying to break through without signing over their soul to the RIAA.
  • I RTFA, I listened to some demo's, and I can see why they are giving them away - but seriously, lots of bands allow their content to be downloaded - just because this band happens to have some members that were in bands that wrote some good tunes, does not mean that the music is good or that they are somehow breaking new ground. Go listen to the demos and then listen to this Oceans_by_Cold_Suzy [coldsuzy.com] this is re-capturing the culture of recording a tape to lend to your friends - not just hype...and its damn goo
    • That's not too bad.

      Need someone to put more mics around the drums, tho - you can hear the hi hat, but the cymbals are muddy, the snare is.. I don't know. Barely there. The kick bass is sometimes there, sometimes not.

      The bass is a bit overpowering as well. But aside from those nitpicky things I noticed (and no, I probably couldn't do better, so there...) that's not too bad of a track!
  • "Please just LISTEN to our music, we'll do anything, we'll even work for free."

    It is nice that they are willing working for nothing. However, this seems more like an attempt to gain exposure rather than actually releasing 'good' music for free.

    Now the debate of whether they suck or not can begin to even make this invitation worthy of merit.

    [cx]

  • To state the obvious... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by David Horn ( 772985 ) <davidNO@SPAMpocketgamer.org> on Sunday July 17, 2005 @04:00PM (#13088396) Homepage
    I can't find any tracks on their website at all. Is it me, or is it all a bit of a con to attract visitors?

  • It's just like when you were kids... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Ingolfke ( 515826 ) on Sunday July 17, 2005 @04:03PM (#13088413) Journal
    "It's just like you did when you were young, when you made a cassette of your favourite tracks you'd love, and would give it to a friend and say 'listen to this.

    Yeah, exactly like when we were young, and you made digitally exact copies of the music you liked and shared it with thousands of people who you've never met.
    • exactly like when we were young, and you made digitally exact copies of the music you liked and shared it with thousands of people

      If the artist is condoning or even engouraging it then it's not a problem whether two copies or two thousand copies are made. The market will decide whether it was a good move on their part or not.

      The reality is that some artists have woken up and smelled the coffee. They are using the internet to their advantage (i.e., using it to replace the outdated industry distribution m
      • If the artist is condoning or even engouraging it then it's not a problem whether two copies or two thousand copies are made.

        You're absolutely right, if the artist chooses to distribute their music this way then by all means, go ahead and do it.

        They are using the internet to their advantage (i.e., using it to replace the outdated industry distribution model) instead of fighting it.

        Actually I think this is a marketing tactic, not a trick mind you, just another tool to market the band. By doing this th
    • Seriously though, unless you count the free junk they hand out for free to people on the streets (advertisement, AOL CDs, cell phones...) most bands would be happy to distribute thousands of copies of their music for free, it people would just listen to it. Try setting up a lemonade stand and keep track of how many people pass by without buying any versus the number of people who stop and buy a drink.

      From there, its not hard to imagine that 70+% of the songs that are actually downloaded online are simply d

      • Re:Freebies! (Score:3, Funny)

        by fishbowl ( 7759 )
        >Try setting up a lemonade stand

        We've done a few experiements: Sitting on a busy
        street corner with a cooler full of beer, for free to anyone who would ask for one (no takers!).

        Walking around in a busy club district with a foam cup full of coins, saying "spare change?" -- meaning, "please take my spare change!" No takers here either.

  • Haven't we heard this before? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Xtifr ( 1323 ) on Sunday July 17, 2005 @04:05PM (#13088422) Homepage
    Like the Grateful Dead? And all the bands that followed their lead, giving us over 1000 different bands with music on the Internet Archive's Live Music Archive [archive.org], and thousands more that allow their music to be legally traded on the Etree Torrent server [etree.org]?

    Ok, so you may say that's just live music, but if you want studio music, there's the Internet Archive (again) with Netlabels [archive.org] and Open Source Audio [archive.org]. I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing the news here.
  • Cory's famous for doing the book version of this, distributing his books for free as a means for getting promotion.

    http://craphound.com/ [craphound.com]

    I caught his talk on it on Friday night. He said that the normal way people get to read an author is to buy the book in a shop, but the shops only carry books from known authors....

  • They'll make up for it in volume... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ScentCone ( 795499 ) on Sunday July 17, 2005 @04:08PM (#13088442)
    ...because eventually enough people not paying for their music will definately pay off their studio time. Oh, right... "former member of The Clash" probably finds it a lot easier than some semi-famous bands to not worry about whether anyone wants to buy the new material.

    But taken to the logical destination, you can only look at this approach as making them a hobby band. Which is fine if you're not worried about the rent. If he's not worried about trying to eat off of music sales, I wonder to whom he donates his Clash residuals?
    • dude, you are really barking up the wrong tree. the clash basically started the british punk movement of the 70s, which was pretty much diametrically opposed to the attitude you are presenting. the clash influenced pretty much any rock band you can find to listen to nowadays (and yes, not just stuff on the radio). the fact that you refer to mick jones simply as 'former member of the clash'. who was john lennon? 'that guy in the beatles'? generation x weren't a bunch of chumps either. if you tell me 'ki

      • Re:They'll make up for it in volume... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by ScentCone ( 795499 ) on Sunday July 17, 2005 @07:59PM (#13089762)
        dude, you are really barking up the wrong tree

        I think you're missing the point.

        the fact that you refer to mick jones simply as 'former member of the clash'

        Um, I was quoting the original post. He used that exact phrase.

        And, I'm not making any comment at all on the quality of their music, or place in history. My point is that if The Clash hadn't sold a lot of records, and had scads of airplay for the better part of the 1980's (and still today, depending on where you listen), he wouldn't have quite the clout or financial comfort to engage in music making just for the sake of it, without any concerns about whether people are paying him to play. That's fine if you have a day job, or are financially set... but people who try to make a living entirely as a musician rarely have the option of giving away their work.
  • In order to get some dosh.

    Bands earn more on tours than from album sales, but an album is relatively easy, sit back, do a video or two and let the cash roll in from the rest of the world.

    • Bands earn more on tours than from album sales, but an album is relatively easy, sit back, do a video or two and let the cash roll in from the rest of the world.

      Yeah, it is really easy dude. I am suprised everyone isn't making albums and raking in the dough. You just stum a guitar and hit a drum a few times. Bam! Instant millionaire.

      Obviously you never tried to write a song before.

      Playing live is so much easier than recording.
    • ... on the band. Some big bands like the German group 'Die Toten Hosen' aim to break even on live tours - at best - so that their fans can afford to buy tickets at decent prices. Hell, if a concert doesn't sell out, they actually lose money.

      Their albums sell over a million copies - that's enough for them (and shows that they aren't a small band...)

  • Well then (Score:2, Funny)

    by Boarder2 ( 185337 )
    Where's the torrent?
  • Man, if I had known one could get in worldwide news for releasing free tracks I'd have made a press release ages ago. All my band's material is free to download, and we encourage people to share it with people who would like it.

    It's a shame that it's surprising to some, but what can you expect in an age where everyone and their brother are being sued for one P2P thing or another ...

  • Let There Be Music (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Sunday July 17, 2005 @05:01PM (#13088754) Homepage Journal
    This band is composed of people who already made enough money off their copyrights that they can do what they want, what they started playing music for: to get girls, and quiet the voices in their heads.

    The real demo of "free music" is not these ex-punks (long live the Clash!), but those emblematic hippies: the Grateful Dead. The Dead always encouraged their fans to record and exchange their performances. So they outlived all the cycles of fads. They never had the rights to allow free exchange of their studio records - the labels kept those rights, along with most of the revenue - so those weren't exchanged. Result: the Dead's albums, even the pretty good ones (_Workingman's Dead_, _American Beauty_, _Mars Hotel_) were never that popular, though their sales got a boost from their increased fans. Nobody collects 100 tapes of live shows, or follows a band around, without buying commercial releases, too. The Dead would never have lasted, if they weren't true to the spirit of the music: music is for sharing.

    It's the central story of the record business that the weasels who run it understand nothing about the music, its makers, or its listeners. Everything they do is counter to the reality of the music itself. Sometimes they get lucky, like figuring out how to monopolize the distribution of the plastic discs most people use to consume music, in collusion with mafias that monopolize trucking. But usually they're fighting the ways that people always share music, and always have, for thousands of generations (of humans *and* copies, or renditions). When people build a music business around *more sharing* of the music, they get the real rewards of working *with* their product and market, not against it. It might not be the instant payoff that the weasels demand, but then it also doesn't usually require the one payoff to finance the 100 failures that their "clamp down" model requires.

  • Man Bites Dog (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Henny Penney ( 900494 )
    Is this an attempt at a 'man bites dog' story?

    Because, most bands invite music copying. It's only a select few who have big $$ contracts who restrict copying.

    Most people are flattered if a fan base copies their music around.

    So what is this? It's actually a 'dog bites man' story but we're pretending it's 'man bites dog' for political reasons?
  • This move is right in line with Mick Jones. One of the founding members of The Clash. Back in the 70's when The Clash was young they had the song "Complete Control" which was all about the artist retaining all forms of control regarding their art. It was aimed right at their label IIRC. I always did like the forward thinking of that band and am glad to see one of the surving members still at it. I wish them success. Keep on rocking in the free world mates.
  • Fuck man.

    The fact that these guys are A) doing this publically B) as noteworthy music icons makes this newsworthy. For every Magnatunes/Garageband/et al comment: your missing the fucking point.

    And before anyone starts trying to jump up and down, I support [popexperiment.com] independent music. I shop Magnatunes. Et al.

  • Just one problem (Score:3, Insightful)

    by TeknoHog ( 164938 ) on Sunday July 17, 2005 @05:20PM (#13088867) Homepage Journal
    From the article:
    ...people could now record songs in their bedrooms and make them available to the world, and new artists no longer needed "a label, or a manager, or a BBC Radio playlist".
    True. (shameless plug :) [iki.fi]
    "We feel that it's almost like if I could go and watch Lennon and McCartney in the studio making Sgt Pepper, and watch them on the internet making that record, that would be a really exciting thing," James explained.

    But there are so many bedroom musicians. How do you pinpoint the future Lennons and McCartneys?

  • album format not dead yet? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by geekee ( 591277 ) on Sunday July 17, 2005 @05:25PM (#13088893)
    from the article
    "Everyone's going to say, 'hang on - if they've got it already, why are they going to buy the record?' But what we find is actually, people really like buying the records."

    I'm glad someone thinks the album format isn't dead yet, given the popularity of buying single tracks from iTMS. I prefer listening to albums, rather than some mix of greatest hits by various bands.
  • and labels, are releasing stuff under Creative Commons licences.

    You like techno? I heartily recommend Avionix Records [avionixrecords.com]

    I think in the future there will be a lot more music floating around for free of *real* quality simply because there's a lot of artists who wont put up with all this corporate bullshit.

  • Obligatory (Score:3, Informative)

    by PsiPsiStar ( 95676 ) on Sunday July 17, 2005 @06:51PM (#13089379)
    ... wiki link karma whore;

    Free Music [wikipedia.org]

    Has some good free labels. Could probably stand some improvements by the slashdot crowd.

  • The Kleptones (Score:2, Informative)

    by microbrewer ( 774971 )
    A band that streatches the copyright debate even further is the Kelptones fronhttp://www.kleptones.com/ [kleptones.com]from the UK all thier albums are free and avaible via Bittorent .

    They have a ground breaking album that mashes up Queeen and Hip Hop classics called Night at the Hip Hopera

  • Since people seem to be pointing towards their favoriate redistributable music sources, let me point out just one more CC Mixter [ccmixter.org]

    As for Carbon Silicon, I don't know. From what I can see, we have an unsigned band with some recognizable members. Since they are unsigned, they have a great deal of latittude in what they can do with their music, so they are using it to promote themselves further. With enough promotion, they may land themselves a deal, and then they will have much less say in how they distribu

  • This certainly isn't new, several bands have done this. Actually, the first big name band to ever be involved with any of this was the Smashing Pumpkins. Right before they broke up they put an entire final double album worth of material up on the then "illegal" napster as a "Final f--- you to the record labels."

    Other bands have toyed around with online material, sales, and downloads. Pearl Jam has been getting more and more involved with this, especially since their contract ended with Sony. They are
  • The demoscene, a collection of artistist nerds making cool little animations, spawned something of great importance: the netlabel scene.

    Now I'm not sure if the demoscene is as large as it was when I was a part of it (future crew days), the netlabels are bursting at the seams and there is A LOT of high quality music in many different genres available. Several promiment artists have their roots in the netlabel scene when trackers were still #1 (Fast Tracker, Scream Tracker, Impulse Tracker), but now adays,
  • Its nice to see that some bands are starting to make their stuff available online to those that appreciate music, and understand its inherent desire to be free.

    I've been going on about getting folks to open their stuff up for quite a while here.. You can read my posts to find out all that ive been saying on this issue.

    Is it selfless promoting for folks to make the news with this stuff? Most likely.

    It most likely isn't new or novel as has been said in the comments above. Just consider how many folks wr

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