Revamping The Periodic Table? 472
vinohradska writes "There is an interesting article on the periodic table over at Slate: 'Oxford ecologist Philip Stewart has designed a new periodic table of the elements, and it's a hit. American schools are placing orders daily for Stewart's table, and the Royal Society of Chemists recently sent a copy to every British secondary school. Stewart's is the only remake to achieve widespread adoption since Dmitri Mendeleev invented the original periodic table in a fit of brilliance in 1869.' "
Damn creationists! (Score:2, Funny)
The weirdest thing is though, the table itself has a backdrop of some scene of a dinner party where there's 3 robed figures, 1 fat 2 skinny, 28 figures that bear an un
An image of the chart. (Score:5, Informative)
Since the painfully brief article buries the most relevant piece of this story 5 pages into a linked slideshow: An image [wikimedia.org] of the chart in question.
::curmudgeony voice:: Dunno... certainly looks prettier, but at quick glance I can gather a lot more information from an "old school" chart.
Re:An image of the chart. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:An image of the chart. (Score:3, Informative)
WRONG (Score:3, Informative)
There's still spaces to to add onto at the end for elements like Unununium w
Re:WRONG (Score:4, Informative)
Then again, I only took up to Chem II in college so take that with a gran of NaCl2 no Na2Cl no I mean 2NaCl.... you know what I mean.
Re:WRONG (Score:3, Insightful)
That was Mendeleev's great triumph, that the table predicted then-unknown elements that turned out to exist with their projected properties.
(almost) RIGHT (Score:5, Informative)
Atomic H: 1 P, 1 e
Atomic He: 2 P, 2 N, 2 e
The reason they are grouped as they are (vertical groupings are really all that matters) is because, in their atomic state, those species have very similar physical properties.
That being said, oxidized Li is *somewhat* similar to He (atomic radius, further reactivity, etc).
IAAC (Chemist)
Re:(almost) RIGHT (Score:3, Insightful)
I think the spiral view is just connecting the inert gases to the group 1 metals, something that is taught when the table i
Re:An image of the chart. (Score:4, Interesting)
http://img.slate.msn.com/media/1/123125/2093564/2
But above it all I prefer the current table by far.
Re:An image of the chart. (Score:2)
A better table - 3-D placement by quantum numbers (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:A better table - 3-D placement by quantum numbe (Score:3, Insightful)
That is beautiful. It makes me want to go back to studying physics again (been many years). Just looking at it hints at the underlying structures of modern physics, and makes you need to understand.
Re:An image of the chart. (Score:5, Informative)
http://img.slate.msn.com/media/1/123125/2093564/2
The concept of "preference" (Score:5, Interesting)
I like the old chart because all of the detail is right there with the element -- I don't have to go and look at the chart along the right side of the page to get all of its details. But
Yes, the whole 'galaxy' thing is most likely to get children interested in science. They'd have probably worked a dinosaur in there, too, if someone hadn't pointed out that it'd then be sexist, and appeal to boys more than girls, but if it gets the kids interested, and maybe they then move to what we think of as the 'normal' periodic table (being that it's much more dense with its information), it doesn't really hurt anyone.
It just makes it so that the kids won't get jokes like the Periodic Table of Condiments [backtable.org] quite as quickly. (of course, the folks who made it didn't understand the Periodic Table of Elements, or they'd have placed similarly behaving items in a column, with the most reactive elements towards the edges, except for the far right column for things that never go bad)
Re:An image of the chart. (Score:3, Insightful)
What the question marks? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What the question marks? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What the question marks? (Score:3, Insightful)
Though I agree that the periodic table is essentially linear and this is simply another way to fold it up in a visual representation, I think there NEEDS to be that disconnect between noble gasses and the next element as it is inherent chemically.. you fill up your shell, bam... onto the next shelf/row/spiral groove/etc.
Re:What the question marks? (Score:3, Insightful)
Those would be where we can predict the existence of an element, but haven't found or synthesized one yet.
For example, if you have a set elements with nucleuses containing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9 and 10 protons, you can guess that there should probably be one with 6 in the bunch.
Electron shells are related to these predictions, too; we know how many electrons can be at particular "distances" from the nucleus, so if we have elements with incomplete shells (== room for more electrons), we can predict th
Tom Lehrer Elements Video (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:An image of the chart. (Score:2)
Re:An image of the chart. (Score:2)
Re:An image of the chart. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:An image of the chart. (Score:3, Interesting)
I always thought of the (current) periodic table to be a non-obvious hack at organizing this information. Sure, it's logical in a sort of kinda sorta way. I believe we become comfortable with it because it is what we are taught, but I do not see how the current design conveys the benefits you suggest it does.
Please expand on your 3 points because they really don't make sense to me.
How is the existing periodic table not a gross oversimplificatio
Re:An image of the chart. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:An image of the chart. (Score:4, Interesting)
Although, perhaps I could tear this 'new version' to peices even better if there were a version I could actually SEE posted somewhere on the net. There are fuzzy low-res versions all over the place, but not a one that I can really study.
There are DOZENs if not HUNDREDS of different table formats. I doubt that this one is even moderatly new, excepting perhaps the irrelevant backdrop. The layout depends on what is of interest; a astrophysics professor might have one that accentuates the electron energy states, whereas a chemical engineer might have a chart which accentuates the prevailence of an element in nature.
The current form is incredibly logical. Purly logical. Proton count increases from top-left to bottom right. Happens to correspond to about a half dozen different patterns. God, I can't even think of all the variables that our simple, standard table shows. There is SO much information packed into it. Even if you stripped out everything but the symbol the current table would convey a staggering amount of information. This new table? Mmmm.... not so much.
As for your last comment: It *IS* worse. Because eventually it will have to be discarded and students will have to learn to use the 'normal' periodic table. Sure it will be easier than if they had never heard of elements and protons etc before, but they won't be familiar with it. They will be slower with its use, and more easily frustrated. And public schools are famous for leaving out details that a teacher 'doesn't feel is important'. I tutored college chemistry: anything which adds to confusion without benifit is very bad. There is just too much new information to convey in a short time to have to add yet something else.
All of that said, I read the article hoping to find something which IS better and more intuitive. I believe one could be made which would be better suited to 'general use'; e.g. the casual chemist: the engineer type that looks to a table once in a while to calculate combustion energies, or for the student of general inorganic chemistry. Was bummed to see that POS.
not the first revision (Score:3, Interesting)
The periodic table is a kind of model, and like all models, it's just one way of simplifying the real world and diagraming it for easy understanding by humans. There's no reason
Poor Theodore Gray (Score:3, Informative)
Re:An image of the chart. (Score:5, Insightful)
The image of the galaxy is what Tufte calls a "duck" - a decorative style element that dominates a chart without conveying useful information. The color coding is also chartjunk; it conveys nothing that isn't already implicit in an element's location in the chart. Most of the ink in this graphic (galaxy, color fills) conveys zero information.
It gets worse. To keep from obscuring the cute galaxy picture, the designer shrank the atomic numbers to an illegible point size, and then threw away useful data (like atomic weight, electronic configuration and common oxidation states, all of which fit into a rather smaller chart than this which is hanging on my wall.)
I'm giving away my age with this post, but... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I'm giving away my age with this post, but... (Score:2)
And I'm glad my chem teacher never played Lehrer's version or it would have screwed the mnemonic that my Dad taught me.
h-he-li-bebknof ne na-mg-al-sipsiclarkCa
Re:I'm giving away my age with this post, but... (Score:3)
HLiNaKRbCsFr
BeMgCaSrBaRa
FClBrIAt
HeNeArKrXeRn
All of which can almost be pronounced as "words" and were easy for my students to remember.
Re:I'm giving away my age with this post, but... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I'm giving away my age with this post, but... (Score:3, Informative)
Free poster? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Free poster? (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Free poster? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Free poster? (Score:4, Interesting)
Chilling.
Re:Free poster? (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't like it. (Score:5, Interesting)
Frankly, I liked the 1950s chart after it better. There was a certain beauty in the layout of that chart. The new chart is pretty much just the elements spiraled across a picture of a galaxy.
Re:I don't like it. (Score:2)
Re:I don't like it. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I don't like it. (Score:4, Informative)
According to Phillip Stewarts website [chemicalgalaxy.co.uk], this chart isn't meant to replace the current chart.
From the website [chemicalgalaxy.co.uk] :
well, I DO like it (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't you see that all the orbital or shells [that make for a confusing notation that chemists painfully memorize and physicists gleefully re-explain with Schroedinger's wave equations that mean nothing to most of us] are made much more intuitive in this representation? This new chart can still give those with no education in atomic physics the intuitive recognition of "what should come next", "what's missing" and "what will weigh more" as the old chart has. Consider that chem teachers are are told to regard as advanced any student who understands this notation[search for "Level 3, the student is able to..." [state.tn.us]. Or considered how labored even a chem101 [frostburg.edu] treatment of this material is.
One thing I will concede: Pauling's notion of "electronegativity", so useful to chemists, was clearly related to location of an element on the standard periodic table [changing most strongly as you traversed diagonally from lower left to upper right]...its not so clear here.
Thank God (Score:2)
Link to Wikipedia Article (Score:5, Informative)
Interesting, but not useful chart (Score:5, Insightful)
The current list has its flaws, but the elements are organized and structured and there is room for the properties of each element on the chart, not on the side as an afterthought.
Re:Interesting, but not useful chart (Score:2)
Re:Interesting, but not useful chart (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Interesting, but not useful chart (Score:3, Insightful)
Stewart deserves little credit for the idea itself, only for the artistic galaxy adaptation (which is pretty, but not particularily useful).
Re:Interesting, but not useful chart (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Interesting, but not useful chart (Score:2)
Ahh but see there is an alterior motive in all of that! Secondary teachers are not going to have to cover up the table when they give exams
(I have less than fond memories of my 11th grade Chemistry teacher covering the Periodic Table and then giving us tests -- it's probably because I received more hours of detention from him in on year then all combined
More Periodic Tables (Score:5, Informative)
Nerd 1: Come on, Mr. Simpson, you'll never pass this course if you don't know the periodic table.
Homer: Ehh, I'll write it on my hand.
Nerd 1: Ho! Including all known lanthanides and actinides? Ha, ha! Good luck.
ObSimpsons (Score:5, Funny)
Martin: Ooh ooh ooh! Delicious?
Mrs. Krabappel: Correct. I would also have accepted "snacktacular."
I'm not sold on it (Score:5, Insightful)
-everphilski-
Re:I'm not sold on it (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I'm not sold on it (Score:4, Insightful)
Perhaps someday when we see something like e-paper become more affordable we'll see dynamic tables that change according to the relationship you currently want to view. E.g. the table reorders itself when you want to view elements in terms of melting points, or perhaps by relationship when as super atoms (as described in the article slide show).
Re:I'm not sold on it (Score:3, Informative)
After writing my above comment I decided to do a quick search on super atoms to see what I could find. Here's a short list for those interested:
Re:I'm not sold on it (Score:3, Insightful)
Also, while chemists seem to argue about how to number the groups in the current table, the group numbers are still quite useful in determining info
Wtf? (Score:3, Insightful)
guy with no clue copies an idea he once saw
to produce a less usable form of one of the
most recognizable/universal data structures
on the planet.
Interesting Points from SlideShow (Score:5, Interesting)
2) On a positive note, I believe that the visual upgrades to the chart (although, will color blind people have any issues getting the full content from the chart now?) will definitely help students remember and learn emelents easier. The visual separation should definitely increase the ability for students to remember how many different colors, how many elemnts per color per spiral, etc. 3) What I think is the most interesting point of all of this is the relation of the elements being able to be tied back together and done so in a shape that mirrors the overall shape of the galaxy. It's sort of like the movie "Pi" where we can see trends, shapes, circles and spirals all within our life and this would be just one more example.
Re:Interesting Points from SlideShow (Score:3, Interesting)
I would suggest that teaching students yet another way to memorize information without learning the how or why is not a good thing.
Secondly, the periodic table already separates the elements into s, p, d and f blocks according to (most) of their relevant properties, and since this chart is largely just a pretty way of re-drawing the information there is not much to be gained. I have colour-coded periodic
Unobtainium (Score:5, Funny)
I tried to read the article but.... (Score:3, Funny)
I guess I'll need to inoculate myself with a little firefoxium...
Yawn (Score:3, Insightful)
The "widespread acceptance" is that it got trendy with some high school teachers.
I remember when our HS chemistry teacher (years ago) showed us a few alternate tables to remind us that there are relationships, and that the periodic table isn't just the 2d table at the back of the chemistry textbook.
Periodic tables of stuff... (Score:2)
The current organization of the periodic table is almost burned into my brain. Six years after touching my last chemistry text book, I can still remember that Zinc is too close to the non-metals and that there's a huge fuss about what the names of those artificial elements that they started naming it Unun to avoid controversy.
My point being that it is a mnemonic chart more than a
Re:Periodic tables of stuff... (Score:2)
Any scientific relevance (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Any scientific relevance (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes. The same scientific relevance that the original periodic chart has exists here as well.
But as for the galaxy graphics, well, he's just trying to make it pretty (read: this is why people are buying it. It's pretty.) And as for the spiral shape, well, all it does is put Ne next to Na, Ar next to K, Kr next to RB, etc. Which does make sense, as they differ by only one electron and one proton. (We'll ignore neutrons for
I like it (Score:5, Interesting)
Still and all, I will probably have it only as a demo tool. The standard chart is much easier to read. It also shows electron configurations more clearly than the spiral does.
Back in the day (Score:3, Interesting)
A few years later I saw a list of known isotopes arranged one element per line and indented based on the weight of the nucleus, with simple hydrogen in the eupper-left corner. The stable isotopes were colored differently, and the color band formed a skewed triangle that would have also wrapped nicely around a cone.
Learning the periodic table... (Score:3, Funny)
(You have to see the movie Evolution to understand.)
Busy, and stupid (Score:2)
Sex Position Periodic Table (Score:5, Funny)
Enjoy.
Re:Is there a BIGGER online image? (Score:3, Funny)
Onanieren macht blind!
Overview, not data... (Score:5, Insightful)
The table is not a lookup table for atom details of data. There are so many details (protons, weight, melting point, etc...) in regard to each atom, that no table can really display them proberly.
If you are a chemist you will know most of this by heart, so the table is best for teaching the concepts. To provide an overview.
In my opinion the new table do solve some of the issues the old table had. Especially now that it is round, that allows the end collums to meet.
You could almost say; look at the table and tell me how the atom "behvior groups" are like. Now look at the new table, and answer the same question.
In both cases you still need to learn about the "behvior groups"...
The slideshow is a little misleading (Score:5, Insightful)
Hydrogen is difficult to place in a group because it's basically a single proton with a single electron whizzing around it. In fact, in organic chemistry we usually just refer to hydrogen ions as "protons" -- which they are. The element itself has some properties of halogens and some properties of alkali metals, which is why it sometimes gets put in "both" groups.
Practising chemists usually know where the elements they work with lie in the periodic table. Outside of school use, the main use for periodic tables is to quickly find atomic weights (sometimes also electronic configurations or physical properties). Annotated variants of the "old version" are great for this. If this data can't be found quickly, the periodic table is useless.
Re:Hydrogen placement (Score:3, Informative)
Prediction: (Score:2)
then people will look at it and say "Gee. It's Pretty, but it's also PRETTY USELESS." and this will go the way of the Edsel and the AMC Matador. (brrrr- I get chills just thinking about that ugly POS)
RS
There is a much better picture of the new table (Score:2, Informative)
It's less cluttered and easier to read than the "Galaxy" version.
Looks familiar to this TRS-80 owner (Score:2, Interesting)
The screen showed a central nucleus, with spinning electron holes. Your job was to capture free electrons with your little ship and shoot them into the holes. You started with the first shell with 2 holes, one for H and one for He, and then the next shell of 8 appeared for you to fill, etc. etc. Eventually the screen got very cramped, which must be why they stopped at 54.
If you fired the electron and miss
Not So Busy (Score:2)
Poor Article, Missing Info (Score:3, Insightful)
However, I can't remember enough of the properties of individual elements to grasp the underlying structure of this periodic table. I remember my chemistry teacher explaining the elegance of the square periodic table by how the electron orbits are mapped out, the total charge of each element in vertical columns and all the neat stuff like that. What I would like to see before passing judgement on this new one is a mapping of all those cool features of the old table into the new table, so I can figure out how it works and if it truely does lend itself to a better understanding of the elements.
If all the nice relational properties of the old table are preserved in the new one in some sort of structure, then with some tweaking it might be quite useful. But until someone can point those features out to me, a pretty picture it will remain.
Not the first remake (Score:5, Informative)
The strange thing is that high school chemistry books that I've taught from treat Mendeleev as a sort of Socrates/demigod figure, yet make no mention of Moseley's contributions, which really advanced chemistry. We wouldn't know anything about the inner workings of the atom if we didn't know and understand atomic numbers.
As for this new poster... it would be something I'd put up on the wall of my classroom to attract attention and give students a new way of looking at the elements, but for any serious work, we'd still have to use the standard periodic table. There's nothing wrong with looking at the elements in a new way, but that doesn't mean it will be useful beyond generating interest in science.
Re:Not the first remake (Score:3, Funny)
Which I have seen before, and in the strange coffee deprived state that my mind is in I read: First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you eat them. -- Godzilla
Just a theory.... (Score:3, Funny)
Stick to the biblical periodic table: earth, water, air and fire....
First the food pyramid (Score:5, Funny)
Chemistry Books and Links (Score:4, Informative)
Essential Trends in Inorganic Chemistry by D.M.P. Mingos, D. M. P. Mingos
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/019
and
Chemistry of the Elements by A. Earnshaw, Norman Greenwood
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/075
It seems harder to read, but prettier (Score:4, Insightful)
There is a lot of whitespace. To be as easy to read as a conventional periodic table, this chart would have to be printed much larger. I'd think that a good graphic designer could take care of much of that problem, however.
I like the spiral nature, although that's a little hard to read as well.
As a scientist and educator, I'd say he's done a good job. As a graphic design, the new table leaves a lot to be desired. I wouldn't fault the author for that, the skills necessary for good science or good teaching don't have much in common with the skills for good design.
much lost functionality (Score:5, Insightful)
-electronegativity/electron affinity
-the radius of its electron cloud
-ionization energy
-lattice energy
-valence electron configuration
Maybe there's a way to deduce all that from this new "galaxy" aragnement, but the article doesn't mention it and it's not readily apparent to me.
Better version would have two tables (Score:3, Funny)
Using my new patented (R), (C) and (CC), method, I guarantee that high school age kids would stare at it for hours during class, and the learning would flow from that. It can't be any dumber than the current US educationals standards, and adults can enjoy it too.
As a side benefit, it may end up in garages and truckstops world-wide. Educate the masses I say!
-Charlie
Re:Good job submitmitter (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Good job submitmitter (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:If it ain't.... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:If it ain't.... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I love that unusable slideshow (Score:2, Informative)
Hmm, sounds like somebody never learned how to navigate web pages with their keyboard. I had no problem moving through the slideshow by [tab]bing until the focus was on the ">", then pressing [enter]. Old-school, but effective in this case since there aren't a lot of links on the pages. That said, scroll bars would have been
Re:It is a big gay chart (Score:4, Insightful)
They want a more "PC" or enviro-fiendly periodic table, not a more accurate or useful one.
My kids are going through grade school, and on conference with the teacher, I found out that they dont teach math by having the kids do arithmetic problems over and over until it's second nature. They just briefly touch on subjects like multiplaction and division, to "give the kids a sense of it", in the teachers own words, then move on. The entire curriculum is designed so the stupidest kid in america can pass, and therefore feel good about himself.
I don't know if I suddenly became an old crank, but what the fuck? This is the education strategy we've chosen as we dive headlong into the age of technology?
I moved my kids to private school. I figure the cash spent now is much less than having to support a public school "graduate" into my 90s.