Printing Wikipedia 253
rtnair writes "Entries from Wikipedia, the popular free online encyclopedia written and edited by Internet users, may soon be available in print for readers in the developing world, founder Jimmy Wales said on Monday."
Mis-information? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Mis-information? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Mis-information? (Score:2, Interesting)
I wonder if this and others will make it into the print version?! Here's a few others that will help to educate the children
Tea bagging [wikipedia.org]
Scissor sisters [wikipedia.org]
Soggie biscuit [wikipedia.org]
Re:Mis-information? (Score:2)
Re:Mis-information? (Score:4, Funny)
surging, perky, young, firm, attractive breasts: pr0n
droopy, dirty, 3rd-world, saggy, working breasts: education
They're like food. If you like them, it's bad for you. If you don't like them, they're good for you. Or you're gay. Not sure how that works into the metaphor though.
Re:Mis-information? (Score:3, Funny)
Stop being so damn cynical. I personally think Slashdot would be much improved if it were possibly to edit and improve any material on the site, including comments. This would allow POOOP!!!!! HA HA PORTLAND SCHOOL IS GAY insertion of constructive criticism.
Re:Mis-information? (Score:3, Funny)
But the second time you posted it, I thought, "Wow, this guy is really onto something! I like what he says, and I want to read more!"
Could you post it again?
Re:Mis-information? (Score:2)
More information? Okay then... Portland School *really* is GAY, and it's going out with the Oregon College of Performing Arts. I appreciate that this is going to shock all the homophobic 14-year olds who've spent the previous 3 years of their life inside a building that happens to
Interesting (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Interesting (Score:2)
Re:Interesting (Score:2, Interesting)
800,000 English articles (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:800,000 English articles (Score:5, Funny)
wget -R . >
Re:800,000 English articles (Score:2)
Re:800,000 English articles (Score:5, Insightful)
However, most likely the printed Wikipedias will be in the other Wikipedia languages, which contain considerably less articles than the English version.
It'll still be a large book no matter what language it's in, but it will be considerably smaller than the English version of Wikipedia.
non english wiki (Score:2, Funny)
Re:800,000 English articles (Score:2)
Yeah, but how many of us have a world book encyclopedia set? There's 20 books or so in the set, and they're all chock full of 12 pt. font. My parents bought one in the early 80's, and it helped me do reports for elementry school and middle school.
When I first saw the headline - I thought, what a great idea! Print the whole thing! But I do realize it's a bit long. I wish there was some way to trim it down a bit and sell it in dead tree format. Wikipedia was extremely useful - even when I was in college
Re:800,000 English articles (Score:2)
If it's not, yes, then it's a lot of articles, and a lot of risks it won't even be as accurate as you may wish a printed encyclopedia to be.
Another problem solved (Score:5, Funny)
Problems (Score:5, Insightful)
True, but not a big deal (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, I can not say for sure how long it had been defaced before I got there, but that experience left me with the impression that, while you do need to be careful, there are lots of people looking after Wikipedia.
And just to be frank... when you say but it usually ends up being a good idea to double check the information presented there some times, I hope you realize that that should be true with *any* source of information. A critical reader should never trust any one source. Every source has bias, and even if it is 100% factual, every source presents the material with its own slant on the facts.
Of course wikipedia sould neve rbe your sole source, but neither should Britannica, or any other single source.
Re:True, but not a big deal (Score:5, Informative)
Re:True, but not a big deal (Score:4, Insightful)
A friend of mine used to run a popular local BBS. I helped to write the article about it, because I wasn't associated with it, my perspective was a little more "NPOV" than his. Then, a day later, some users get mad, because of the controversial opinions that were associated with this BBS and puts it up for VfD. The VfD wasn't going well for the article (most people were voting to delete because they never heard of it, the primary chief cop out reason). Then an editor comes along and decides its a candidate for "Speedy Deletion" and it gets deleted pretty quickly. The reason was non-notability.
This is rediculous because, as you state, a non-existant soccer player gets ZERO questions because its not controversial or expresses any opinions against the grain of Wikipedia groupthink. Considering how popular the BBS was back in the day, the arguments were totally rediculous. The editors and users voting on the VfD were citing cross-links in Google as a guide for "notability" of something that existed before the Internet was a mainstream (or even something that you or me could access). Then you have to also note the number of other articles that are totally pointless in terms of cultural relevance to anything - less than the BBS in question was.
Until Wikipedia fixes issues like these, I will never take them seriously. Yes, I have tried to talk to some of the higher ups, they are no better. They just call you a "troll" and ignore you.
Wikipedia is the perfect example of pitifully poor organizational structure marred by populist tendencies and groupthink.
Re:True, but not a big deal (Score:2)
Stop that.
Re:True, but not a big deal (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, the non-existant soccer player got unanimously deleted as soon as it was discovered. I simply saved a copy because it was one of the more unique examples of vandalism I'd seen (most are almost exactly the same).
VfD's can be stressful, especially for new editors. It's hard to not take it as a personal afront.
What's the BBS, by the way?
Yes, there are a lot of gray areas in terms of what should be included in Wikipedia. Notability [wikipedia.org] is especially contentious.
Well, the most extreme examples don't count. AfD/VfD is sometimes a bit of a random process, and you never know if something will be kept or not. So sometimes things aren't deleted, or aren't deleted right away, or, better yet, aren't merged [wikimedia.org] yet, and current editors often disagree with previous precedent.Wikipedia is also different from things like Slashdot and such because the goal is to have one big, cohesive database of human knowledge. On Slashdot, comments are only read for a couple days. On Wikipedia, I might think something should be phrased a certain way, but someone else might think it would be better phrased another way, and we have to actually settle those disagreements.
The fact that everyone has to cooperate on Wikipedia a lot more means that things won't always go my way. And that's not something that will ever change.
Re:True, but not a big deal (Score:3, Interesting)
No, things just aren't uniformly scrutinized. Period. Some vandalism sits around for a year or two before it's noticed. Some things get AfD'd two minutes after they're created. It's random and doens't have anything to do with topic.
Re:True, but not a big deal (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course not. Objectivity is officially nonexistent on Wikipedia.
Re:True, but not a big deal (Score:5, Insightful)
Vandalism which is hard to spot is the apparently correct information, throwin in together with a bunch of irrelevant but correct edits. Those you won't notice, unless you have been maintaining the article from it's inception.
Re:True, but not a big deal (Score:2)
Re:True, but not a big deal (Score:2)
All human activity includes the possibility of error. That doesn't mean that we completely abandon error as a criterion.
A work that is jam-packed with deliberate or easily avoidable errors has less value than a work that has been carefully and professionally reviewed to detect and prevent error.
We shouldn't have to prove that something can be error-free before we say errors are a bad thing.
Re:True, but not a big deal (Score:2)
For example, in that article on homeostasis, "stasis" is erroneously implied to be a prefix, which it is not.
Could you specify where? I don't see anywhere in the article where it is even *used* as a prefix.
About the closest thing to this would be where they explain the etymology of the word, but even there they clearly explain its roots, and nowhere do they infer that stasis is a prefix, suffix, or any other modifier..
Re:True, but not a big deal (Score:2)
Re:True, but not a big deal (Score:2)
It's really just a protection against Slashdot vandals.
Re:Problems (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Problems (Score:2)
No, but the Britannica does have a tradition of publishing signed articles by contributers as significant as Einstein and Freud.
It believes in the vigor and intelligence of prose that is not written by a collective.
Re:Problems (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Problems (Score:2)
Printed Wiki (Score:5, Funny)
Cost and earnings (Score:3, Interesting)
And if they make a profit, how will it be divided? How will they give it back to the community that wrote it?
I think it's best to keep the cost as low as possible, so break-even plus a tiny percentage. Where the tiny percentage (the profit) will be invested into the wiki directly.
Re:Cost and earnings (Score:3, Informative)
ooooohhhh gooodie! (Score:5, Funny)
Printed?! (Score:2, Funny)
I've never read anything so stupid in all my life! Surely they'd need a computer to view the article on the web before they can even print it!
Does anyone else see the irony?
Re:Printed?! (Score:3)
Anyway, if you're being serious, here's a serious answer: wikipedia already has printing functionality; there's a print page link on every page, including the not-so-useful ones like lists and categories. The point of the article is that for those that don't have computers, paper versions will be made by printing companies and those made av
Re:Printed?! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Printed?! (Score:2)
From the article:
... well, they better have a computer if they want the DVD version - I don't think its going to work in that older technological relic - the VCR.
Then again. probably not. When you see a quote like this:
A better idea... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:A better idea... (Score:2)
What wikipedia needs is a few good "benevolent dictators" like Linux has that can create stable versions of articles. Perhaps all wikipedia editors should be able to vote for, say, half a dozen chief editors.
Re:A better idea... (Score:2)
There is a small-ish group of editors [wikipedia.org] who have been voted on, and confirmed to be mature editors with a sizable edit history. And there are protected pages [wikipedia.org] which can only be edited by people in that group. However, page protection is intended to only be used sparingly.
Re:A better idea... (Score:2)
But they wouldn't have to do everything, just the core info.
Re:A better idea... (Score:5, Interesting)
See Article validation feature [wikimedia.org] and En validation topics [wikimedia.org] - which would put a "Rate this page" tab at the top of every page. The feature is currently waiting on a version of the code [sourceforge.net] that won't overload the database if it's put into production ;-)
See also my plan for 1.0 [wikipedia.org] (I dashed this off about a year ago and it's still the best working plan we have) and Category:Wikipedia 1.0 [wikipedia.org] (a bunch of writings on producing a stable version).
Re:A better idea... (Score:3, Informative)
People who really need to refer to a solidifed version of a page can include the time of access in the reference (just as you'd do when using any webpage as a proper reference), or using a URL that points to a speci
Re:A better idea... (Score:2)
And btw, I think the printed wiki should print JUST the featured articles.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:A better idea... (Score:2)
You are, of course, free to create your own "Wikipedia stable".
However, the value proposition of Wikipedia is this: with thousands of people editing it constantly, you get more raw information on which to base your research.
Having said that, I've rarely discover
It must be true... (Score:5, Funny)
I'm not a great supporter of disclaimers, but here I think it would serve well.
I assume they will use an "old" version (Score:4, Interesting)
And if they do use a stable version for printing, then the could offer that as a version for those that don't want beta entries. Entries with less than a certain viewer/edit ratio would be deemed "beta" and not show to people or coded as such.
Wiki could even color-code the text by recency of edit. Readers would know which sections are too recent to trust and editor would see what's changed.
Re:I assume they will use an "old" version (Score:2)
That's not a reliable indicator that the content of the entry is factually accurate, though. At best, it indicates that none of the recent viewers identified any errors. Depending on the expertise of the viewers, that could mean a lot or nothing; and since people more often read encyclopedia entries about things they DON'T know than about those they already know, I'd lean towards the latter.
Wouldn't it make more sense.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wouldn't it make more sense.... (Score:2)
A few entries, yes, but most information does not become outdated that quickly. You can still pick up the 1911 edition of Encyclopædia Britannica, and find a lot of information that is correct and relevant. If you freeze a part of Wikipedia onto paper, it's the same. Things like the date Germany invaded Poland, or the gravitational constant, don't change overnight.
Re:Wouldn't it make more sense.... (Score:2)
Except for the "correct" and "relevant" parts.
Things like the date Germany invaded Poland, or the gravitational constant, don't change overnight.
Sadly, on Wikipedia such things can and do change overnight.
TWW
No. (Score:2, Insightful)
Computers require energy (at the very least, solar panels). Books do not.
Computers, even the pie-in-the-sky, not-yet-delivered $100 ones that MIT is attempting to create, cost more than books. For one $200 computer, we could print up 20 $10 hardcover books.
Computers overheat, choke on sand, and have moving parts. Books do not.
We still have 500+ year old books around.
How many 20 year old computers are still runnin
Re:Wouldn't it make more sense.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Wouldn't it make more sense.... (Score:2)
Most information does not get out of date quickly. That is especially true for data that is relevant to people who do not have internet access.
This is a very good idea.
Re:Wouldn't it make more sense.... (Score:2)
A version is available for download in the proprietary TomeRaider format, which can be read on Windows and Palm.
How long ... (Score:2, Funny)
Great... (Score:3, Funny)
Which third world? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Useless entries??? (Score:2)
Electronic Encyclopedia (Score:2, Insightful)
Priorities? (Score:3)
Shouldn't the content be corrected & verified before we start putting out hard copies of the data, which will be interpreted as "the truth" by whomever learns from these tomes?
And really... how often can you use the term "tome" in a
Re:Priorities? (Score:2)
Shouldn't the content be corrected & verified before we start putting out hard copies of the data, which will be interpreted as "the truth" by whomever learns from these tomes? "
Why would we want to do that? Obviously, this is a scheme to make sure the developing world does not educate its children well.
Sabo
Catch 22 (Score:2)
Defeating the purpose in one fell swoop. (Score:4, Insightful)
Now we have them trying to give this tool to foreign countries but first off it's a encyclopedia, no single book will hold a good enough amount of the knowledge anyways. But more importantly with in a year most of the information will have changed multiple times on that site.
Hell the best thing about that site is if you search a current event you tend to get precise info even if the events have happened that day. That alone makes the site worthwhile, however the book will have none of these features and likely just become a normal encyclopedia. Sadly I have to say there's no reason for that. It's an encyclopedia that nerds wrote but from what I've seen it's not statistically better then a real encyclopedia. In fact because it's open to all to write it's statistically worse for the reader because there's no validation exception a public consesus.
Why that's bad is easy, Public consesus tends to be less then 100 percent perfect. Salem Witch Trials, LA riots, and so on. There are leaders who watch over the site, but I still don't believe it to be worthwhile to take out all the uniquest features on that site and try to make a book out of it....
Now a autoupdating PDA with the full information of the site? that'd be bitchin'....
Sometimes I feel wikipedia can't be fixed (Score:5, Insightful)
As a longtime and way too busy Wikipedia contributor, I say: let it die, or then do some extensive and expensive maintainance. Basically, it will have to resamble more the printed things which Slashdot users so like to deride.
Re:Sometimes I feel wikipedia can't be fixed (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Sometimes I feel wikipedia can't be fixed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sometimes I feel wikipedia can't be fixed (Score:3)
Re:Sometimes I feel wikipedia can't be fixed (Score:2)
How many 3rd world countries has he been to? (Score:3, Insightful)
What about Botswana??? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What about Botswana??? (Score:2)
Wikipedia should move toward the open source model (Score:3, Interesting)
In the open source model of development you have several levels of "contributers". (I probably missed a level or two)
1. Maintainer
2. Commiters
3. Submitters
4. Users
These levels represent levels of trust, with the Maintainer the most trust worthy, and the Users being the least. Anything contributed by those with lower trust levels gets reviewed by the higher trust levels, and appropriate action is taken (either the change is accepted or rejected). If you do something to ruin that trust, you are forced down the levels by your peers.
The only problem with this scheme in wikipedia is there will be more forking and competing articles. However, this can be mitigated in a similar fashion to what wikipedia is doing now with links at the top of articles linking to competing pages.
If anyone is interested in setting up this kind of encyclopedia, or knows of one already in use out there, send me a link.
Too dynamic. (Score:2)
I have a great name for it (Score:2)
Seriously, why bother with a print version of ANYTHING that is heavily cross indexed? One of the greatest things about digitized docs is the ability to do fast, complex, searches across the entire document. Having it in print reduces you to slogging through the very limited index. Plus there is the issue of having an entire shelf taken up
So many pages... (Score:5, Funny)
Missing the point (Score:4, Funny)
TWW
I don't get it!!! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:This makes sense. (Score:4, Interesting)
Then again.. it doesn't make sense. Even the CD versions make less sense than the live database.
I mean.. if you cannot postback your comments and annotations, the why is it still called wikipedia ?!?
You're jokin'..
Re:This makes sense. (Score:3, Funny)
They're releasing it on CD-RW.
Re:This makes sense. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:What's the point again? (Score:2)
Re:What's the point again? (Score:5, Informative)
Also, only a subset of wikipedia will be available offline. Wikipedia's featured articles [wikipedia.org] for the most part don't suffer from Wikipedia's usual disadvantages as they are more thoroughly reviewed than most articles.
Re:What's the point again? (Score:3, Interesting)
There is absolutely nothing inherent in the featured articles to make them any better at whitstanding anonymous vandalism.
Re:What's the point again? (Score:2)
In terms of imprecision/sloppyness, well, I don't know if that will be fixed any time soon.
On the other hand, all the text and images are available for free (as in beer), so Wikipedia's content is one more legal alternative to those with fewer means. Given that the field exists of only older encyclopedias (eg. 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica [wikipedia.org]
Re:What's the point again? (Score:2)
So the article on Quantum Mechanics reflects Uncertainty! That's kind of like making the article on Poetry have rhyme and meter.
Re:What's the point again? (Score:2)
Re:What's the point again? (Score:2)
Re:What's the point again? (Score:2)
If it is spelled a little differently, it would also serve as a useful warning.
Re:Thank you wikipedia (Score:2)