North Pole Heads South 393
blamanj writes "Things are not looking good for Santa. First, news that it's getting warmer at the North Pole, and now, scientists report that the (magnetic) pole itself is on the move. 'Earth's north magnetic pole is drifting from North America at such a clip that it could end up in Siberia in the next 50 years.'"
Pole Reversal? (Score:5, Interesting)
Is it true that we are overdue for a reversal in the polarity of the Earths magnetic field? Would this be a Bad Thing for us humans if it happened soon?
Re:Pole Reversal? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, it would be a Very Bad Thing (tm) because when a reversal happens, we're left without the Earth's magnetic field, which protects us from lethal cosmic rays which are high enery/DNA disruptive stuff, such as gamma rays among other niceties.
Magnetic field reversals coincide with mass surface life extinctions, I'll bet it won't do us any good if it happens in our lifetime.
Re:Pole Reversal? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Pole Reversal? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Pole Reversal? (Score:5, Insightful)
Rubbish (Score:5, Insightful)
But... a weakened field for a few decades will not send us all to early graves. The biggest impact of a changing magnetic field would be to:
- Navigation. I guess we all have to adjust to GPS and similar.
- Animal navigation. Sadly birds, fish, etc. haven't yet implemented and learned how to use GPS. They'll have loads of trouble.
In terms of dangers it poses to us in the next hundred or so years, should this be a continuation of the existing decrease/beginning of reversal in field strength, it's importance is way below things like climate change, oil reserves running out, etc.
Nuisance for us, a bitch for animals that rely on it to migrate, but as a race, the danger from it is effectively zero.
Re:Rubbish (Score:3, Insightful)
The poles have been moving around since before life began - and has certainly shifted around significantly whilst birds that can use it have existed. In any case, a compass can only really provide you with rough navigation - a bird won't be using the magnetic pole as its sole navigational system (if it did, then normal day to day weather changes would screw them up much more than a pole th
Re:Rubbish (Score:5, Interesting)
Consider: Birds don't live for decades. If the pole were to shift within a year or two, it might very well hose the bird population. However, if a flip happens over the next 50 years, then there will be many bird generations between now and then. Each generation will get "used to" the new orientation as it happens.
From a strictly Darwinian standpoint, this would explain why birds don't live very long. A bird that lives longer will experience more of the shift during its lifetime. During a shift, more of them will become lost and confused. Therefore, having a shorter lifespan is an advantage. Birds that live longer would tend to have more trouble during a shift, and would get weeded out of the gene pool from time to time.
Stupid birds.
Re:Rubbish (Score:2)
Every old bird was a young bird once, and thus had plenty of opportunities to pass its genes on. The net effect is zero.
Birds don't live for decades.
Cockatoos can live for more than sixty years.
Re:Rubbish (Score:4, Insightful)
The Red-Tailed Black Cockatoo [birdhealth.com.au] can live for up to 100 years. And, according to this article [oreillynet.com], "The [Albatross] is a survivor. It flies 1,900 kilometers (1,100 miles) per day, with pinpoint navigation, and returns to its nest repeatedly over its 50-year lifespan."
Re:Rubbish (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Rubbish (Score:2)
The rarity of MAJOR changes in the magnetic field wouldn't, I imagine, have any real effect. Moreso, if using the poles for navigation was so unreliable over the course of a single lifetime, such an ability wouldn't have been positively selected for in the first place.
There are many much more significant changes that happen far more frequently (day/night, summer/winter) that have been easily adapted to that I doubt your suggestion is valid.
Re:Rubbish (Score:2)
I'm sure that if this does go on further to be a full on change over a hundred years or so, t
Re:Rubbish (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Rubbish (Score:2)
I wish I could find the source this, but it was an episode on Nova I saw a while ago about the magnetic fields and pole reversal, but it has been known that when the poles flip it tends to last longer than just a few decades. One is known to last over 3,000 years.
But in general, it won't be too bad because obviously life survived through that. Increased cancer rates wil
Re:Rubbish (Score:2)
Ps freqency of
gamma waves is 10^24 - 10 ^ 20...
X rays 10-^21 - 10^17
visisble light 10 ^14.somthing - 10^ 15.something
Re:Rubbish (Score:2)
WTF does that have to do with anything? Extreme amounts of UV is 'just light' too, but you wouldn't want to go walking around it it. Please learn even just the basics of phyics before making such comments - it'll stop you from looking stupid. Yes, gamma rays are just high frequency light, just as are X-rays.
Besides, the point was tha
Re:Rubbish (Score:3, Insightful)
The GPS satellites are in a very high orbit, far above the region where comsats and space stations live; I doubt the Earth's magnetic field gives them any significant protection at that altitude.
The GPS satellites are in a low-earth-orbit. The communication satellites that are in geosynchronous orbit are much further out. The inner Van Allen belts fall inside the geosyncronous orbit, but they actually don't provide much protection from radiation. In fact, when they become amplified, they have been known
Re:Rubbish (Score:4, Informative)
For a really cool visual demonstration, check out J-Track 3D [nasa.gov] over at the NASA web site. The GPS satellites are just about the only thing you find between the cloud near the earth, and the Clarke Belt.
Re:Rubbish (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Pole Reversal? (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/movies/thecore_re
having said that, question is what would happen to birds and other animals that navigate by the magnetic field. anyone know?
Re:Pole Reversal? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Pole Reversal? (Score:4, Informative)
Supercomputer simulations [nasa.gov] do not show that. According to the site: "Reversals take a few thousand years to complete, and during that time--contrary to popular belief--the magnetic field does not vanish. 'It just gets more complicated,' says Glatzmaier. Magnetic lines of force near Earth's surface become twisted and tangled, and magnetic poles pop up in unaccustomed places. A south magnetic pole might emerge over Africa, for instance, or a north pole over Tahiti. Weird. But it's still a planetary magnetic field, and it still protects us from space radiation and solar storms."
wrong (Score:2)
"They've also learned what happens during a magnetic flip. Reversals take a few thousand years to complete, and during that time--contrary to popular belief--the magnetic field does not vanish. "It just gets more complicated," says Glatzmaier. Magnetic lines of force near Earth's surface become twisted and tangled, and magnetic poles pop up in unaccustomed places. A south magnetic pole might emerge over Africa, for instance, or a north pole over Tahiti. Weird. But it's still a
Re:Pole Reversal? (Score:3, Informative)
A quick google shows that this incorrect. The atmosphere continues to block most incoming radiation even during those times when the magnetic field has completely collapsed. 'Cosmic ray' is not the right choice of wording here, either-- very little of the incoming radiation meets the definition of cosmic ray, which is good because neither the magnetosphere nor the atmosphere provides mu
Re:Pole Reversal? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Pole Reversal? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Pole Reversal? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Pole Reversal? (Score:2)
Re:Pole Reversal? (Score:3)
So, the North Pole can only go North.
(Posts like this happen when things are slow at work.)
Re:Pole Reversal? (Score:4, Informative)
Could be interesting times (mental note: buy manual tin opener)
Re:Pole Reversal? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Pole Reversal? (Score:2)
It's all a russian plot to take over the world
Actually, if it recall correctly, predictions are that, if a pole shift were to happened, it would created a period of turbulent/chaotic magnetic field configurations. You would get lots of transient and shifting polarities across the entire planet. Scientists believe that the process would take hundreds of y
Re:Yeah, (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Pole Reversal? (Score:2)
It is true that the first TVs were highly sensitive to the Earth's magnetic field to the point of needing re-tuning whenever the TV was moved but I seriously doubt modern CRTs (most things made over the last ~30 years) would have significant issues with that - try turning your TV around to simulate a pole inversion and see what happens.
In any case, most of these will have long bee
Cyclic? (Score:2, Informative)
The Russian are trying to steal our pole ! (Score:5, Funny)
We haven't found them in Iraq, so they MUST be some else.
Re:The Russian are trying to steal our pole ! (Score:5, Funny)
news (Score:3, Interesting)
well now that i read about it the poles moving seems pretty normal.
"They found that the north magnetic field shifted significantly in the last thousand years. It generally migrated between northern Canada and Siberia, but it sometimes moved in other directions, too."
Not at the... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Not at the... (Score:3, Interesting)
Exactly, as the magnetic north pole is somewhere in Antarctica (or close to, cant remember). The north pole on the compass points north due to the magnetic south pole there (somewhere between Canada or Siberia depending on time).
Yours Yazeran
Plan: To go to Mars one day with a hammer.
Re: Not at the... (Score:2)
That's why you call the red end of your compass needle the north-seeking end. It's a magnetic south pole, and seeks the earth's magnetic north pole.
Re: Not at the... (Score:2)
Re:Not at the... (Score:3, Funny)
Maybe so, but his Village is in Southern California [santasvillage.net]. Or maybe New Hampshire [santasvillage.com]. Or possibly Illinois [santasvillageil.com]. Or even the lovely named Bracebridge Muskoka [santasvillage.ca] in Ontario.
Re:Not at the... (Score:3, Funny)
this is news? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:this is news? (Score:2)
Pole movement in real time (Score:2)
Watch as the pole shifts oh sooo slowly...
Re:Pole movement in real time (Score:2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_field#Ma
RTFA (Score:2)
Direct quotes FROM the article:
Should happen every 23,000 years (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Should happen every 23,000 years (Score:2)
Re:Should happen every 23,000 years (Score:3, Informative)
Good gravy! (Score:5, Funny)
Interesting fact (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Interesting fact (Score:3, Informative)
It's well known that compasses are actually labeled backwards.
Re:Interesting fact (Score:2)
Re:Interesting fact (Score:4, Informative)
Compasses aren't labelled incorrectly. The North side of a bar magnet in a compass is labelled North because that is the way it points, not for its magnetic pole. They aren't saying, "Hey, this is the North pole of this magnet," they are saying "Hey, this side of the magnet always points North." Those are two completely different meanings.
Re:Interesting fact (Score:2)
South Pole will be Chile or Argentina? (Score:5, Interesting)
When the north pole moves... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:When the north pole moves... (Score:2, Funny)
* Dollar bills at the ready *
I wouldn't touch this joke with a (Score:3, Funny)
No piccies (Score:5, Informative)
Read them. They are worth it.
It looks like there are two magnetic norths on the planet. Our current one looks like it is just the additive of the major and minor magnetic fields of the earth with their collective strengths oscillating over time... hence the apparent movement.
Re:No piccies (Score:2)
From one of the links:
Keeping track of the north magnetic pole is Newitt's job. "We usually go out and check its location once every few years," he says. "We'll have to make more trips now that it is moving so quickly."
North pole track-keeper - what an easy job!
Re:No piccies (Score:2)
Stoner! (Score:2)
Those crazy stoners. They're always an
Magnetic North Pole (Score:5, Informative)
It has always been a general area, and at any given point of time, the *actual* North Pole would be somewhere in that area.
So, given that, this is not really surprising.
Re:Magnetic North Pole (Score:3, Informative)
The general area where the point might be is known, but the point itself keeps changing its position.
Re:Magnetic North Pole (Score:4, Funny)
Personally I think we should send a commando squad to nail it into place.
Especially if it's going to Siberia. Clearly it was a double agent from the Cold War. Because it is leaving the geographic North Pole, the North Pole will clearly get warmer, adding a whole new meaning to "Cold War". Thus we will have new war with Soviet Russia, which will be called the Warm War, so we'll dig up Reagan, who will tell the Russians to stop dancing around our pole (while the Poles will go on strike against martial law and double entendre).
Some call me Nostradamus. Others call me "raving lunatic". You be the judge.
Cheers,
Ethelred
Losing the North Pole? (Score:2, Funny)
shite! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:shite! (Score:2)
Where else could it go? (Score:5, Funny)
Well, it didn't have much choice, did it? The north pole is the only place on earth where no matter where you're going, you're going south. So what's all the fuss about?
(of course the fact that it is actually moving is quite a story)
Re:Where else could it go? (Score:2, Funny)
Hah, I win (Score:2)
No auroras in Alaska? (Score:2)
Alaska getting LESS auroras would make more sense to me.
Field reversals are similar to the sun's.... (Score:2)
The same sort of "tangles" will happen as the earth's field reverses - the only difference is that since the earth is not undergoing nuclear fusion, we won't see "earthspots".
However, I wonder what will happen to the earth's magnetosphere and ionosphere as the flux lines break and reconnect - on the sun that is what c
The magnetic poles always wander around a bit (Score:2)
Oh, no! (Score:2)
Some people fear change (Score:2)
I came across the web archive of an experiment done by the guy who used to run fanaticus.com, before he was shut down by the DEA.
He had read about how UV lights had modified aquarium plants, which ended up causing an ecological disaster when they escaped into the sea, via the aquaducts...
So he put blacklights on a timer in his mushroom growing cabinet, and produced an albino strain, AFTER the mycelium had colonized the substrate, but before it started pinning.
And the spores from that first
Re:Let me be the first to say (Score:2)
Hurry! Quick! Do something! The Russians are trying to steal the North Pole!!
Re:Let me be the first to say (Score:2)
Re:Travel and brimstone (Score:2)
GPS (Score:2)
GPS is not an approved method of navigation for aircraft, it is only intended as a supplementary navaid to VOR/NDB, your charts and of course the compass. I've no doubt that it will become the primary method of navigation in the future, but at present it's not accepted by aviation authorities as being totally reliable. A big problem at present is GPS's vulnerability to solar activity.
Re:Travel and brimstone (Score:2)
Really? I didn't realize we were still in the 19th century. I thought we for the most part relied on GPS systems nowadays.
Sailors have known for centuries that their compasses vary. They have had to compensate for it since the days of Columbus.
Re:Travel and brimstone (Score:2)
In MY day, the rich used the stars to navigate. My family couldn't afford them, so we used moss.
And we were GRATEFUL.
Re:Travel and brimstone (Score:2)
Unless one triggers the other of course
I wouldn't worry much about anything but animals when it comes to the magnetic shift/reversal. Then again they might have been through it before (at least some of the species should have iirc, like crocodiles).
GPS can do direction... (Score:2)
Direction can be derived from multiple positions. It's easy. And thats kind of the point of having multiple satellites. You get your position lock. You move. You get your new position lock. Your difference is a vector. Guess what... that vector points... in a direction!
-everphilski-
Re:When South Pole Butts North (Score:2, Informative)
Re:When South Pole Butts North (Score:2, Informative)
Re:By definition (Score:4, Informative)
The geographic north pole is north by definition, the magnetic north pole is not - so it can head south.
That's the only place it can go (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Make perfect sense to me. (Score:4, Insightful)
I never understood conservatives' problems with environmental issues. Things like global warming, the eventual depletion of fossil fuels, deforestation ... why is it stupid to consider this issues like this? I mean we live on this planet, don't you think we should look out for it? We're not going to get another shot at this. Once we fuck it up, we're extinct.
Politicians have a good reason to be anti-environment because they and their friends make serious bank by drilling oil, cutting down trees, running industries that pollute and the like. I can understand their point of view. But why does their profit mean anything to you? You realize that by supporting their point of view, you're just making them rich at the expense of the planet's (finite) resources, right?
Re:Make perfect sense to me. (Score:2)
Re:Make perfect sense to me. (Score:2)
Cause, ya know, statements like that won't polarize us at all
Ecology vs economy, round infinity (Score:3, Insightful)
It all comes down to individual costs vs. group costs. The Left is more concerned with long-term group costs - not to say that they're not concerned with individual costs, but they're more willing to pony up for stuff that makes long-term sense. Conservatives, for the most part AFAICT, can't be bothered with worrying about the group costs.
I'm not going to say that not worry
Re:Make perfect sense to me. (Score:2)
Others have suggested that conservatives don't really want to hurt the environment, but rather fear the loss of status they experience when the things tied to symbols of their worldview, such as wealth and power,
Re:Well That Proves It (Score:2)
Re:Where is north then? (Score:2, Informative)