SCO Having a Hard Time In Court 120
jamienk writes "The beginning of the end is in sight. SCO has been reprimanded for the second day in a row by a second judge in their campaign against Linux. Basically, Judge Wells ruled that SCO's vague claims of IP infringement will not be allowed to be heard in court, since it was all clearly a poor attempt at avoiding showing any evidence. Next, SCO will face compelling counterclaims against it by IBM." From the article: "At issue was whether SCO would be allowed to sneak in new allegations and evidence in its experts' reports that it failed to put on the table openly in its Final Disclosures, in effect, as IBM described it, reinventing its case at the eleventh hour. The answer today was no, it won't be allowed to do that. IBM had asked for this relief: 'Insofar as SCO's proposed expert reports exceed the Final Disclosures, they should be stricken.' More details will be arriving in a while, but assuming the early reports are accurate, we may assume that this is what the Judge has ordered." This is a follow-up to a story we discussed yesterday.
the ruling should have been . . . (Score:5, Funny)
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To all those who are scoffing at (and downmodding) our cries of "Dupe!", please PAY ATTENTION:
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As Pam Jones of Groklaw said, SCO is toast.
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So, when do we finally get to watch... (Score:2)
Re:So, when do we finally get to watch... (Score:5, Funny)
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I don't think Darl McBrideofFrankenstein is linux compatible.
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which is a shame, really. It would be entertaining to watch the case where SCO tries to prove their unix copyrights were infringed after it's been shown they never had them in the first place...
Sure glad (Score:2, Insightful)
The end is in sight and will probably mean the dissolution of SCO assets as the company folds up and dies, since this was a last gasp ploy to hit a litigation jackpot of billions of $ from IBM, et al.
Sad to see, as SCO was once a respectable company in Santa Cruz, CA.
Re:Sure glad (Score:5, Informative)
The current SCO is a different company than the the old SCO (Santa Cruz Organization) to which you refer.
http://www.answers.com/topic/tarantella-inc-1 [answers.com]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarantella%2C_Inc [wikipedia.org].
The new SCO is pure evil and I would not be surprised to learn that Darl McBride is a pedophile and baby eater, and that he kicks newborn puppies for fun.
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It was still bad (Score:1, Informative)
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The current SCO is a different company than the the old SCO (Santa Cruz Organization) to which you refer.
This I knew. They used to host free tech talks on a regular basis in their offices over near Harvey West Park in Santa Cruz. It was there I learned about Java Server Pages from Jason Hunter, who wrote the first book O'Reilly published on the subject (called the Tea Kettle cover.)
I knew a few people who worked there and at least one who had aspirations to go there just before things started to go s
Who has a clear timeline? (Score:1)
I'm constantly reading about assorted developments, but I can't find any place (groklaw included) that provides a clear up-to-date summary of "Where SCO vs. IBM is RIGHT NOW". I've seen the SCO Scorecard, but it's not lucid enough to be grokked in a reasonably short amount of time.
I guess what I'm getting at is that I (like many I imagine) am tired
Re:Who has a clear timeline? (Score:4, Informative)
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http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page
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Lot of other good stuff on his site as well.
sPh
You got some SCO on your face (Score:4, Funny)
What do you mean, vindictive?
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I know there's been lots of speculation about IBM being able to pierce the corporate
veil, and some of that speculation includes IBM being able to take this fight to
SCO's backers.
Until we know what IBM knows, it's really hard to make a strong argument either way.
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http://www.linuxtoday.com/it_management/2003061301 126NWSVLL [linuxtoday.com]
You have to remember that Sun changes its mind on whether Linux is good or evil every few months, just like they cancel then resurrect Solaris x86 periodically. This was a few flips back. Don't bet your business on Sun following through on their promises... however, this is getting quite a lot better. Actions like putting Java under the GPL are not just cool, they're pretty irreversible. They're c
Yes and no (Score:2)
Decisions, Decisions (Score:1, Funny)
100 shares of SCO stock or 100 nude photos of Janet Reno...
Even after you've made your decision, what the hell do you do with 100 nude photos of Janet Reno??
So much for connecting to Slashdot at Lunchtime (Score:5, Funny)
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I don't think there is anybody out there who would want to buy SCO stock at this point.
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Damn and I just got Lasik and now you made me scratch my eyes out..... why didn't you say this BEFORE I spent the money
Janet Reno nude (Score:2)
Sell them to Playgirl for their next "men in politics" issue...
Complain about dupes all you want, but... (Score:1, Funny)
OT: Cheap Laugh (Score:5, Funny)
Well, it made me chuckle anyway.
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If I was one of the fools who still had some SCO stock left to sell, I'd probably wait a week or so for the current selling frenzy to end, and let the SCO stock painters to get back in action. I'd hope they'd be able to get the stock back up near the $2.00 range again, then I'd sell what I
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Wow! 4SCO... (Score:2)
Wrong! (Score:4, Insightful)
This is completely wrong!
The CLAIMS will be heard in court. However, most of the EVIDENCE (or lack of) to back those claims has been ruled inadmissable because SCO did not comply with the court's order regarding specificity (show us the code!).
SCOX: Down, Down, Down it goes.... (Score:3, Informative)
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Unfortunate (Score:2)
Reward (Score:2)
IBM certainly deserves a reward, big time. (Good work, guys!)
But their reward for fighting this fight (presuming they win it as it looks now) would be more than the corpse of SCO.
Much of their business model these days is based on Linux (and other Open Source code) being unencumbered by claims such as SCO's. A win against SCO will end risk for Linux from claims based on IP from the Unix codebase. But it will al
SCOX down 40% today (Score:5, Informative)
SCO's stock went into a screaming dive [yahoo.com] today. It's down 40% today on heavy trading, about 20x the normal volume. The mainstream business press has picked up the story, and, this time, there's no ambiguity.
Forbes seems to have really had it with SCO. Much of SCO's early FUD appeared in Forbes articles, which now makes Forbes look bad.
Re:SCOX down 40% today (Score:4, Informative)
From http://www.technewsworld.com/story/opinion/33529.
SCO has just over US$60 million in resources to sustain it while it fights IBM (NYSE: IBM) Latest News about IBM in what clearly is one of the most volatile wars in the history of technology. What has been very interesting is that SCO publicly has been given almost no chance of winning, while privately the company has convinced several folks, including me, that it has a strong chance.
Enjoy your crow dinner, Rob. For desert is Humble Pie.
Soko
Re:SCOX down 40% today (Score:5, Interesting)
I completely disagreed; at the time, it seemed clear to me that SCO's entire case rested on an interpretation of the contract that amounted to SCO owning all the code that IBM wrote independently. I don't think juries generally like the idea of someone using vague contractual language to grab others' work, especially seeing as SCO didn't even do the original work.
I also argued that it was unlikely SCO had anything to show, given that they'd already been reprimanded for missing discovery deadlines; now I am not a lawyer but my impression is that ignoring the judge's orders repeatedly is not good for your case. And indeed, that seems to be what has caught them out. Enderle told me he'd been privy to some of the stuff they were going to show the court, but my guess is that he didn't understand what they were showing him well enough to realize they were blowing smoke.
I am convinced that SCO figured IBM would just pay them to go away, everyone would make a quick buck, and that would be that; it would probably have been cheaper than this protracted court battle. But IBM thinks longer term. Having put up this kind of fight, do you think anyone else will ever sue them over Linux IP? This fight will make Linux largely lawsuit-proof.
It will be interesting to see what Enderle says about this decision, if anything. SCO clearly hoodwinked him. But as wrong as he was, he wasn't alone.
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I am convinced that SCO figured IBM would just pay them to go away, everyone would make a quick buck, and that would be that; it would probably have been cheaper than this protracted court battle. But IBM thinks longer term. Having put up this kind of fight, do you think anyone else will ever sue them over Linux IP? This fight will make Linux largely lawsuit-proof. [emphasis added]
I couldn't agree with you more.
Looking ahead a little bit to what might happen at the end of the SCO debacle... IBM has put
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Software patents. IBM has been quietly putting a number of its software patents into a kind of protective escrow situation where they cannot be directly used to generate income. My guess is that IBM is no lover of current patent law and prolly sees the whole body of existing software patents as being rather like a toxic wasteland, and the patent process being a drain on their revenues. It might make sense to use the legaldozer to do some environmental clean up in th
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IBM has been a legal powerhouse since many decades. Look up IBM vs. CDC, or IBM vs. Amdahl, and -- last, but not least -- US vs. IBM, the big anti-trust case that ran for a whole whopping 12 (in words: twelve!) years, from 1969 to 1982.
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You must be very young...
Nope, but I do try to rejuvenate my neural nets on a regular basis by thinking young and sassy thoughts, so thanks for the compliment!
I am not naive about business operations. IBM's flocks of lawyers aren't kept in storage on the shelf in between SCO-sized lawsuits. They earn their keep doing more mundane activities. The SCO suit caused IBM to revise the priorities of the legal department for the duration. There is considerable cost in doing that kind of revision. Now that the a
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So, we should be thanking SCO for bringing this suit after all?
In other news, it turns out down has been up all along.
Dean
Compare Lyons from 2003 and 2006 (Score:5, Informative)
Compare that article to this one from when the whole SCO fiasco was getting started [forbes.com]. Same author, you'll note - very different attitude. I love the hilarity of juxtaposing the titles of the two articles. Back then Lyons was calling Linux advocates and users "crunchies" - now he just calls them "fans" and says things like "companies... have built booming businesses around Linux."
Not that he'll get called on the hypocrisy or anything.
What makes you think he's being hypocritical? (Score:3, Insightful)
What makes you think he's being hypocritical?
The previous article was written over three years ago. At the time WE may have known (or suspected) that SCO was talking through its hat, but The Suits, and the reporters that served them, had little such knowlege.
SCO talked a good line, while Open Source was a newcomer to business, of questionable utility, promoted by people who looked like "a bunch of socialist hippies" who didn't respect "intellectual pro
Re:What makes you think he's being hypocritical? (Score:4, Insightful)
Except that now Lyons specifically states that SCO never produced any evidence. And even then the "noisy fanatics" (his words) were producing evidence that SCO was flat wrong.
Now he just sort of mumbles, "Gee, SCO was just flapping gums" without actually acknowledging that he was a prominent FUD disseminator himself, and they didn't - even then - back up their claims, to him or anyone else. I'd think at least a small apology would be in order.
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I like it when people learn, and stop making some set of incorrect assertions as a result. The ability to learn, and to change your mind as a result, is a cornerstone of maturity, and IMHO, should never be criticized.
Now, the fact that he had to learn that SCO was lying, instead of being a
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Yes, this really is a dupe. (Score:1)
Posted today, around 4 hours or so ago. Yes, it's a dupe. Yes, there was another story regarding Judge Kimball's de novo review of Magistrate Judge Wells' earlier decision, which was upheld in its' entirety.
This story, as well as the one that link will take you to, are in regards to SCO getting put in their place, once again, with regards to IBM's motion for PSJ regarding the claims left following the Motion to Compel.
Oh, and IANAL, just one of many
Forbes Is Reporting Investors Dumping SCO (Score:2)
I guess the only thing left to say is,
Na na naa na...na na naa na...hey hey hey...goodbye...
The Wheels of Justice (Score:1)
I am willing to wait. (Score:2)
Well I, for one, am willing to wait a bit if it is because they are taking that time to be sure they get it RIGHT. B-)
One cloud on this silver lining (Score:4, Insightful)
Many posters recently pointed out that they thought this was a stock pumping scam designed to get the stock up on the possibility of getting a large settlement from IBM. Now that the chances of that happening are slimmer and slimmer, what would you bet that before these announcements, important execs at SCO dumped their stock?
I hope not. They should burn like the Enron execs should have burned.
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Remember that the principles involved are mostly trading "stock options". They are granted the right to buy stock at a certain price, and can then sell it for whatever the market will bear. They don't, however, *have* to pay for it at all if the stock isn't "in the money" (i.e., selling for more than the option strike price).
No, the time to dump the stock was at 14 or 15 dollars (
Scox down 50% in two days (Score:2)
Scox's market cap still 4X as high as when darl started.
So can someone answer something for me? (Score:2)
Does this new material give them grounds for appeal or even retrial based on new material? I assume that it'll be as nonexistent new material as all their nonexistent old material was, but how does the court system deal with this? Is there a way the judge can say that they've shown bad faith and as such it can be assu
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What SCO tried to sneak in after the close of the discovery phase was "expert" witness reports that broadened the scope of the original claims, to which IBM objected and Judge Kimball ruled on (in IBM's favor) yesterday.
What Judge Kimball correctly recognized was that trying to nail down SCO's claims was like trying to hit a moving target. The evidence that Judge Wells disallowed was ingeneously called "claims" by SCO in order to get past the fact (ie., evidence) discovery deadlin
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Right after the MS-Novel deal .. coincidence ? (Score:4, Interesting)
Now those not in the know are thinking "so what the hell does SCO have to do with MS or Novell ?" or even worse
"Those Slashdotters are just biased MS haters".
And the answer to these thoughts my young padawan learner (or MBA) are the following facts:
Which now leads us to the ultimate reason for why I believe these incidents are indeed related and not an accident
a motive !!
Both the SCO lawsuit and the MS-Novell agreement are designed to cast (at least to most tech-unsavy MBA types) a huge legal cloud over Linux specifically, and FOSS in general, of which Microsoft would be the only benefactor.
Case Closed
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They could explain it, it's just that neither side wants to. If you add up the money exchanged, the net result was that MS paid Novell some $300 million, which means MS was buying something. MS thought it was worth $300 million to create the speculation of legal trouble with Linux (as you said), but they don't benefit if they ma
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I stand corrected - Boise was the DOJ (Score:1)
Thanks for the fact check DannyO152. However, as you stated, my general point stands, both cases used dishonest legal practices. Furthermore, courtroom deception is a signature MS legal strategy.
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And to make it explicit... (Score:2)
And to make the reason for the timing explicit: With the SCO suit unraveling, it's time to get the next shoe ready to drop.
Boies vs Microsoft (Score:1)
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But I hope you agree my general point was correct, the centerpiece of MS's legal strategy is to use trickery, etc.
Headline -- SCOX STOCKS SUX! (Score:1)
Well, sure! The MS/Novell is the new front. (Score:3, Interesting)
I think Hattie said it best (Oblig. Futurama) (Score:2)
For those who do not speak legaleaze (Score:2)
This essentially says that, since SCO tried to sneak some evidence at the end, without going through the proper legal process before hand, that this evidence should be removed and not considered by the court/judge/jury.
In an appeals process, these documents would not show up in a new case should SCO try to sue IBM in a higher court. SCO would have to try to re-enter that testem
Not the reports... (Score:1)
End-game for "High Barratry" (Score:2)
(Posting rather than linking so Steve's web site doesn't get slashdotted, and the "Creative Commons License" permits it.)
High Barratry
Lyrics © 2004 Stephen Savitzky.
Creative Commons License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/ [creativecommons.org] Some rights reserved.
To the tune of: High Barbary (trad)
Of a company called S-C-O, the tale I'll briefly tell
With G-P-L, our software all is free
Who turned their hands to barratry when software wou
We need SCO (Score:1)
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Re:Three's the charm! (Score:5, Informative)
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Since, allegedly,
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Except that this article is the THIRD SCO article in two days. The event yesterday was separate; it had one article. However, this current quashing was already discussed in an article posted 6 hours before this one [slashdot.org].
And to top it off, your underinformed post gets +5 Informative while my 100% correct one got marked Overrated.
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Re:Er, dupe? (Score:5, Informative)
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It is a dupe.
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Re:Er, dupe? (Score:4, Insightful)
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See, this is the true beginning of the DeathWatch. Expect more semi-overlapping articles...
w00t
snarkth
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They must have known they would have no evidence and no case. If what they wanted was money, they should have gone with someone who would be unable to fight a long war and would entered an agreement before the lack of evidence became evident.
In their place I would have picked SGI, who contributed a lot to the Linux kernel.
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SCOX didn't want money, they wanted to be bought out (hint: read the reports of the original agreement with their lawyers - in the event of a buy-out, the lawyers get 30%.)
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