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Star Wars Prequels Media Movies Entertainment Games

Star Wars - The Force Unleashed 122

Posted by Zonk from the khhhhhhh-shhhhhhhh-khhhhhh-shhhhhhh dept.
CVG has the news from the front cover of Game Informer's March edition: the next-gen Star Wars title LucasArts has been working on is called Force Unleashed. Set in the relatively unexplored time period between Episodes III and IV, you'll be taking on the role of a dark side agent assisting Darth Vader to hunt down the remainder of the Jedi. The game will use the much-touted Eurphoria physics engine LucasArts has been working on, and will feature a number of elaborate force-using effects. Highlights from the game may include (spoilers ... feel free to look away ...) a fight with Shaak-Ti in the Jedi Temple on Coruscant, and assisting Vader in an attempt on the Emperor's life. There's even talk of allowing you to play out 'alternate paths', in which the dark side ultimately wins the Galactic Civil War. No word on a release date, but the game will come primarily to 360 and PC. PSP, PS2, and DS ports are being farmed out to another developer.
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Star Wars - The Force Unleashed More

Star Wars - The Force Unleashed

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  • This article has been posted for hours and no one has commented? Glitch?

    Didn't have much to say about it, was interested to see what everyone else had to say. Apparently nothing. :P

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by robably ( 1044462 )

      This article has been posted for hours and no one has commented? Glitch?
      Uh, we ran into some old friends.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cHALiTO ( 101461 )
      there's something to say about it: PS2 but no Wii?? fuck!
      I want it on the Wii!! there was a mock-up video [youtube.com] on youtube about what it'd be like to fling clone troopers through walls by swinging your wiimote. I WANT that.

      And since we're on the Wii + StarWars subject.. when are they going to release a lightsaber [gamasutra.com] duel game [1up.com] for the wii? I mean, It's clearly what the console was designed for ;) First time i saw it, the first thing that came to my mind was "DAMN! LIGHTSABER FIGHTS!!!". More so when we learned there
  • Thanks LA, this is what? the 30th star war game you have released? If you want to release Star Wars, fine, but can you also go back to your roots and start re-releasing some of the originals that made your name (Monkey Island, Grim F, Sam & Max).... I know the series would never be the same since most of your creative adventure designers are most likely long gone... but damn I miss them.

  • No Wii? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Don_dumb ( 927108 ) on Tuesday February 13, 2007 @09:39AM (#17996716)
    Damn you Lucasarts, Star Wars is the perfect game for the Wii, everyone wants to wield their lightsaber, why are you porting this to the DS (albeit through 3-party) rather than the Wii?

    On the plus side, it is refreshing to be the bad guys. Just let us Wii owners (there are alot of us, possibly more than you thought would be)
    • Let us hope that there'll be a Wii Exclusive Jedi game this way only wii players will be able to truly wield the Force maybe even Dual Lighsabers! ;)
      • Truly wield the Force? Show the the game that gives me the power to shoot Force Lightning for real, or jump 10 meters into the air, and I am *so* there!
    • The Wii is only roughly 1.5 to 2 times as powerful as the Gamecube.

      I'm sure you can still push decent graphics out of it, but Lucas is a graphics snob, and he will want the best. Regardless this game is real heavy on the use of physics, which requires a top-notch processor, which the Wii does not have.

      This is what I feared, the Wii would be very popular early on, but the truth is that good graphics sell. When people initially saw screenshots for Oblivion two years ago, no one believed a console could push

      • I'm sure you can still push decent graphics out of it, but Lucas is a graphics snob, and he will want the best. Regardless this game is real heavy on the use of physics, which requires a top-notch processor, which the Wii does not have.

        And so, they're publishing it on the PS2...

        As far as I can tell, the real reason why they're hesistant to release this on the Wii is because of all the expectations gamers have of a "1337 l1gh754b3r g4m3". Everyone wants to see the Wii remote used for some sweet lightsaber ac

        • They are pushing the PS2, DS and PSP ports out to a different company. Thusly, it will not use the Euphoria (or whatever it's called) engine.

          I doubt the Wii can handle the physics in that engine. They could have just outsourced the Wii port to someone else as well, but I imagine they will make a seperate, in-house Wii game down the line.

          However, LucasArts also said they only want to release 1-2 Star Wars games a year now, as to not oversaturate the market.

          Battlefield was the best selling Star Wars game of

          • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

            by CommunistHamster ( 949406 )
            Not to be pedantic, but the star wars game series was Battlefront; Battlefield was the EA games franchise, which coincidentally has some rather good Star Wars mods. Galactic Conquest for BF1942 for example.
            • No, thank you. It is worth correcting. I am merely sleep deprived.
            • Correct, but the parent could be somewhat excused for confusing them, they're very similar. In fact the first time I read about BF2142's game modes I thought, "hey looks like they borrowed some ideas from SWBF2"

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by G-funk ( 22712 )
            What I'd love to see on Wii is another Jedi Knight game. And not that atrocity that was Jedi Academy, a nice single-player-focused sequel to DF, JK, and JKII. Those games were badass!

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by StevoJ ( 868524 )
        The Wii IS meeting consumer demands. It's LucasArts that aren't. We want Star Wars on the Wii!
        • A triple-A title based on a new engine can easily take two-three years of development. If they start on a brand new game for the Wii right this moment, and compare it with the graphics that the PS3 or 360 can put out two to three years down the stretch, it will be silly.

          The Wii won't be abandoned, but customer demands will in fact be very different two or three years down the stretch.

          If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say this physics engine has been two or three years in the making, and is largely the backbo
          • Graphics sell. Games with poor graphics don't sell.

            In your world, maybe. Out here, there are plenty of us who care about the fun factor a hell of a lot more than what the game looks like.

            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              by Enderandrew ( 866215 )
              Actually, I spend 90% of my time playing retro games.

              I'm not speaking of my personal opinion, but rather an industry rule.

              It is a simple, cold-hard fact. Games with poor graphics do not sell.

              They can be fun, and I prefer good-gameplay over graphics personally. I can't tell you the number of times I've played Fallout, Ultima 7, Planescape, etc. over modern RPGs.

              Right this moment I'm running through Shadowrun on the NES, Breath of Fire, and Worlds of Xeen again for nostalgia because modern RPGs are lacklust

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by KDR_11k ( 778916 )
            Graphics sell. Games with poor graphics don't sell. Customer's perceptions of what makes good graphics go up every year.

            Bull. Games can sell well without great graphics if they got other things right. Would you call The Sims, GTA or Animal Crossing a pinnacle of graphics? Hell, games don't need to do anything right except for marketing, look at Enter The Matrix.
            • You have no clue what you're talking about. The Sims was released Feb 04, 2000

              That makes the game seven years old. Now compare it to graphics of other games seven years old.

              The graphics were rated an 8 on average by most reviewers.

              GTA was hailed as having absolutely incredible graphics for the time in which it was released, and Vice City is one of the best looking games ever on the PS2.

              Honestly, I never played Animal Crossing and I can't comment on it, but you brought up some really bad examples.
      • the gamecube was still more powerful than the PS2. It was lack of third party support that killed the cube. the wii might not have a huge graphics leap over the last gen consoles like the 360 and PS3 have, but that doesnt mean you can't get great games with awesome graphics out of it. The friggin PS2 and DS are still sellin like hotcakes! Why? awesome games.

        when are people going to learn that graphics aren't the end all for games. This generation it just way too expensive just to enjoy these graphics. the P

        • Right now both the 360 and PS3 are pretty expensive. And the second the PS2 launched, it took a while for it to take off as well. PS1 sales continued for some time.

          People don't drop 10,000 on a high-end plasma because they don't care about graphics. If graphics didn't matter, then console makers wouldn't literally lose money on hardware to push the graphics envelope.

          Go to any major games review site, and the first thing you'll read in most any game review is a discussion on the graphics.

          A good looking ga

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by edwdig ( 47888 )
            People don't drop 10,000 on a high-end plasma because they don't care about graphics. If graphics didn't matter, then console makers wouldn't literally lose money on hardware to push the graphics envelope.

            Yeah, but about 10% of households in the US have HDTVs. When you leave the US, the numbers get lower.

        • the gamecube was still more powerful than the PS2. It was lack of third party support that killed the cube. the wii might not have a huge graphics leap over the last gen consoles like the 360 and PS3 have, but that doesnt mean you can't get great games with awesome graphics out of it. The friggin PS2 and DS are still sellin like hotcakes! Why? awesome games.

          This quote manages to both be technically correct and a spectacular example of missing the point.

          It was indeed lack of third party support that killed the Cube. By the same token, it was massive third party support that secured the PS2's overwhelming victory. However, and this is the important point, there is *no* indication that this situation is likely to change during this generation. Moreover, once the novelty value and hype/astroturf that accompanied the release has vanished, the Wii's situatio

          • I totally get the point, but what i really want to argue is that these ultra high-end graphics aren't that necessary. I can think of various games from past generations that have high quality graphics and continue to be enjoyable.

            Vagrant Story

            Resident Evil 4

            Shadow of the Colossus

            FFXII

            Smash Bros: Melee

            Zelda: Twilight Princess

            I guess you just need to excuse my fanboyism. Perhaps its only wishful thinking that people will look past ultra realistic graphics.

      • That really doesn't explain why there's a PS2 port in the works, and not a Wii port.
        • Sure it does. This game's focus is the physics engine. Will that port well to the PS2, PSP or DS? Not really. So they outsource those. Why then avoid the Wii? Because if you're going to put something on the Wii, you really do need to design around the controller. It isn't just a novelty, it is a new way of gaming.

          You really need a separate game with the Wii in mind.
          • Not really. It is more than possible to create a port with tacked-on Wii controls. Just look at Mortal Kombat. Hell, Zelda is a Gamecube port with tacked-on Wii controls. Simply substitute button presses with motions, and viola.
      • The Wii is only 1.5 to 2 times more "powerful" (The WORST term EVER BTW) than the game cube, which puts it at about 2 - 2.5x more "powerful" than the Ps2; which this is apparently being ported to (Unless that's a typo, but with the horrible PS3 sales, I wouldn't be surprised if they snubbed the Ps3 this time around and decided to do the Ps2 route.)

        Are we also forgettting that Havok 3.0 also comes BUILT-IN to the Wii? No one gives it enough credit; true, it's not overpowered (I also need to remind you th
        • The XBox wasn't even 2.5 times as powerful as the PS2, and the Gamecube wasn't either.

          Blind fanbois don't impress me.

          Try using some facts next time.

          And the PS3 is literally about 23 times as powerful as the PS2.

          I just tried Google searches for Wii and Havoc, and Wii and Havoc 3.0

          Nothing. So I tried the technical specs on Nintendo's site, and then Havoc's site. Nothing.

          I did find an article on how the Unreal 3.0 engine will never come to the Wii, because the Wii isn't powerful enough to run it.
    • I don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't want to play a lightsaber game on the Wii. The fact that there is no resistance would drive me nuts... You couldn't really have a great lightsaber battle because you'd swing right through your enemy parrying your attacks, even though your character's lightsaber on screen was blocked.
      • That's actually a really good point. I never thought of that.

        If the controller had force-feedback, you could simulate at least some resistance of hitting your opponents or their weapon.

        I wonder if the PS3 will ever have force-feedback in their controllers. Because of the patent-suit they lost, they will have to invent a new form of force-feedback.
        • I thought of a solution. In the Wii lightsaber game, you only fight clonetroopers, ewoks, and gungans. No resistance whatsoever, and it will be exactly what Star Wars fans have been wanting.
          • The funniest line in Star Wars:

            "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are this precise."

            Though I just realized that in most LucasArts games, you've fought droids quite a bit. LucasArts didn't want the games to be viewed as violent or bloody.

            This game should be a big departure in that department.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by pamar ( 538061 )
        I practice a martial art (Aikido / Iwama style) that includes staff and sword techniques.

        The parent is completely correct. Without some sort of feedback when your weapon strikes your opponent's blade/weapon, this will feel odd, and probably affect the duels quite badly.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by lazyl ( 619939 )
        You should have an open mind instead of declaring that you wouldn't want to play a game that doesn't exist yet because of imagined problems with a control scheme that doesn't exist yet.

        I've studied fencing and I believe that even without resistance, if the game could properly recognize and translate the basic forms for thrusts, slashes, parries, and feints then it would work perfectly fine. It wouldn't even need to be completely free form, just have four different types of each for the four quadrants of y

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by lazyl ( 619939 )
          I guess my ideas do come primarily from a fencing background. Fencing doesn't usually involve any large sweeping attacks that threaten to cleave your opponent in two, which are what you're probably thinking about. I suppose other sword fighting styles that do have such attacks might be a bit harder to execute without controller resistance. But I still say it's best to keep an open mind until we get a chance to play the actual games.
    • Are you sure you want to be playing with a lightsaber on your wii?
      What if someone comes in, records it, then posts it on the internet...boy will you look stupid

      • Are you sure you want to be playing with a lightsaber on your wii?
        What if someone comes in, records it, then posts it on the internet...boy will you look stupid
        A video isn't required to make me look stupid.
    • There will be a wii lightsaber game - there was a promo when it was still the revolution, I think the vid is even on youtube. I'm sure its just a matter of time
    • I agree, but let's hope it's not just online play, but one where you can fight light saber and laser pistol duels with your friends, even split up into Dark and Light side Force battles ...
  • They should make a more extensive lego collection from their previous games Lego Grim Fandango and Lego Monkey Island. Now theres an idea!

  • Well now... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by navygeek ( 1044768 )
    I have to say, even as a minor SW geek, I'm intrigued by this. I like the idea of being a 'bad guy' from the outset, that isn't something you see a lot of in games - usually the game is setup so you play as the hero.

    I remember wishing, back in the day when I used to watch cartoons like GI Joe, Transformers, and Thundercats - I believe this was last Thursday, that the bad guys would win one - if only to mix things up a bit.

    I like being given a choice to be good or evil, a la the Knights of the Old Repu
    • "I like the idea of being a 'bad guy' from the outset,..."

      Hmm, thinking in terms of absolutes? That's Sith-thinking right there, sounds like you're well on your way!
    • I feel the same way, and this is probably one of several reasons why I enjoyed Tie Fighter so much.
    • Guybrush Threepwood for Emperor? But he fights like a cow!

    • I remember wishing, back in the day when I used to watch cartoons like GI Joe, Transformers, and Thundercats - I believe this was last Thursday, that the bad guys would win one - if only to mix things up a bit.

      I never followed Thundercats that closely, but I believe 'Worlds Without End' - a two-part episode involving a paralell universe - should at least partially sate that why-can't-Cobra-carry-the-day-for-once? hankering. To this day, I still would not mind seeing how said paralell world got the way it

  • Getting the story to load so that I can comment.

    I'm shocked that Lucas of all people would allow a game that caters to the Dark Side fan-base so much.

    I'm light-side for life, but my wife's panties will no doubt get wet when she sees this.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Gulthek ( 12570 )
      Tie Fighter [wikipedia.org].
      • Yes indeed. One of my favorite games of all time. I miss the X-Wing series of games. Why aren't they making any more?
      • From your link:

        "Despite playing on the side of the Star Wars saga's "bad guys", the player's role is somewhat sympathetic, not only because he lives in fear under the shadow of Darth Vader and other unforgiving superiors, but also because the game's portrayal of the Empire--dictated, of course, by the player's superiors--focuses on its role as a guardian of order."

        Even with Bounty Hunter, you played the villian in a somewhat good-guy role, hunting down other bad guys.

        And for the record, we need a next-gen X
        • Check out the X-Wing Alliance Upgrade Project [xwaupgrade.com] for some unbelievable upgraded models.

        • And for the record, we need a next-gen X-Wing/TIE game with all the ships from the EU and all six movies.

          I agree wholeheartedly, and have quite a few ideas for this game...
          First, engine. I'm not sure anyone's topped Freespace 2, so that'd be a good basis.
          Yes, we want the unfolding campaign(s); bonus points for branching missions, as well as success or failure in a given mission (or optional objective therein - see Tiberian Sun), or choice of mission branch, affecting subsequent missions (Ace Combat X do

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by KDR_11k ( 778916 )
            Heh, that reminds me of Star Crusader [the-underdogs.info], an old, Wing Commander-esque game with a heavily branching plot (you could even become a traitor, fight for the other side and kill all your former friends), some recon missions with a stealth craft where you constantly had to watch your EM noise level (and indeed including scanning an enemy space station) and "unlock" new ships by either gathering ressources with your secondary units (you could send a second group of pilots on a separate mission that included ressourc

    • Re:I've had trouble... (Score:4, Funny)

      by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Tuesday February 13, 2007 @11:20AM (#17998270) Homepage Journal

      I'm light-side for life, but my wife's panties will no doubt get wet when she sees this.

      If any of us had any doubts about your ability to attract women before this comment, we have none now.

      • I've always been a big Star Wars fan, but my wife is the one who is a member of the Fan Force and spends every night in a Star Wars RPG.

  • 360 and PS3, not PC (Score:3, Insightful)

    by rayde ( 738949 ) on Tuesday February 13, 2007 @10:06AM (#17997110) Homepage
    it should be pointed out that TFA mentions this game will be developed in-house for Xbox 360 and PS3, but makes no mention of PC (which the summary erroneously stated).
    • Strange. How many LucasArts Star Wars games have been console-only? I can only think of that horrible fighting game. While the summary is clearly wrong, it seems unlikely that this won't make it to PC.

  • full article text (Score:1, Informative)

    by 0232793 ( 907781 )
    to save u the trouble:

    The first details of LucasArts' PS3 and Xbox 360 Star Wars project have finally emerged, from the latest issue of US mag Game Informer.

    It's called Star Wars: Force Unleashed and takes place between Episode III and Episode IV, when new Sith on the block Darth Vader is out to wipe the galaxy clean of runaway Jedi.

    As Vader's apprentice, you're on a secret mission to dive head-first into the forbidden Dark Side of the force, take out the emperor and rule the galaxy as master and apprentice

    • Advertisement: George Lucas reportedly has a lot of input in the project, and even helped design some of the characters.

      That's not an advertisement, it's a warning, much like that blue oval on the front and sometimes back of many American cars.

  • Vader attacks Palpatine? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MeanderingMind ( 884641 ) on Tuesday February 13, 2007 @10:24AM (#17997360) Homepage Journal
    Am I the only one who finds the idea that Vader attempts to kill Palpatine before Return of the Jedi ludicrous and out of character?

    Well... not that anything else that happened in 1-3 was in character...
    • It says "Assist Vader in an attempt on the Emperor's Life." I'm guessing you're assisting him to *protect* the Emperor from the assassins, not playing the role yourself. That would be more in character with the story ... until, well...

      Maybe you're spotting Vader lifting weights?
      • Maybe Vader saves the Emperor by putting him on a strict low chloresterol diet and regular exercise?

        "You play Vader the Nutritionist in this exciting, and educational, Lucas Games release!"

    • Re:Vader attacks Palpatine? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by dooms13 ( 954485 ) on Tuesday February 13, 2007 @10:48AM (#17997724) Homepage
      That doesn't seem that out of character to me. I mean if you think about it the Sith are all about the apprentice trying to over take the master. If he fails that could be the reason he never thinks of trying to over take the emperor again until Return of the Jedi.
    • This isn't talking about killing the Emperor and restoring the Republic, it's about power.

      What sith wouldn't want to kill their master and take over? It's totally in character.

    • Re:Vader attacks Palpatine? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by SanityInAnarchy ( 655584 ) <ninja@slaphack.com> on Tuesday February 13, 2007 @01:28PM (#18000352) Journal
      Why is it ludicrous and out of character? Vader's violent and out of control, no reason he wouldn't try to kill his master and be #1 -- in fact, that's basically what he wanted to do with Luke, if you remember. How can he "rule the Galaxy as father and son" if Palpatine's in the way?

      Regardless, this isn't the first time they've tried this. Play through the Episode III videogame, and check out the alternate ending if you play as Annakin. (Spoiler: Annakin does not become robo-Vader (since he wins the fight with Obi-Wan), returns to his master Palpatine and kills him easily.) Indeed, if Obi-Wan hadn't burned away most of Annie's body, he'd be much more terrifying as Vader -- which does provide an explanation for how much worse a fighter Vader is in Episodes IV-VI.
    • Vader conspiring to kill Palpatine is easy to conceive. (see Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader [wikipedia.org] book)

      Him somehow being allowed to live if the attempt failed is somewhat harder.

  • From TFA: There's also the suggestion of being able to control your own pack of Rancors, the gigantic beasties that Jabba the Hutt likes to keep under his gaff.

    Take heart, fellow Creature Handlers!

    • Amen brotherman (or sistergirl as the case may be)! Go tell it on the mountain...or at least some forums.

      CH was my favorite profession in SWG. Sure I wasn't the most uberleetyeah nerd on the block, but it was fun running around with my three bio-engineered Rancors. If you've never seen a height-maxed Wookiee carrying a T-21 rifle dancing with three Rancors in step behind me - well then my friend, you simply haven't lived... (or you got a LOT more sun than I did during the year and a half I played SWG).
  • There will be no greater disappointment than a Wii game that uses the Star Wars license and totally reeks on the gameplay side. I rather see the game development take some time and get it correctly on the execution, than a hastily put together game that tries to cash in on the license. Again.

    Not that THAT has ever happened before on a Star Wars game. On a Nintendo platform. Or any other platform.

  • Finally! (Score:3, Funny)

    by tygerstripes ( 832644 ) on Tuesday February 13, 2007 @11:00AM (#17997932)
    ANY opportunity to throttle Jar-Jar with a force-grip before taking off his f*cking head with one good swipe is, in my opinion, very welcome and long overdue...

  • X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter (Score:2, Interesting)

    by goten ( 36521 )
    Am I the only one out here who wishes LucasArts would just bring back the X-Wing series with some updated graphics? No change in gameplay at all, but some nice new shiny models.
    • MMOG X-Wing vs Tie Fighter. You have to do some missions for rebels/imperial for money before you can go out on your own as a merc. Or maybe it would be funny for you to steal your first vehicle. Once in space, you can run missions to earn more money to buy bigger and badder ships, or extra ships to accompany your fleet: See Star Destroyer for an escort. Finally you get a team of your friends together, and you take on large battles for big money or rebel/imperial control of star systems. It wouldn't be
      • There is/was a mod for Freelancer called Freeworlds which allowed this sort of gameplay. There's still a few servers around that run it.

  • Euphoria-physics-engine (Score:4, Informative)

    by MrCopilot ( 871878 ) on Tuesday February 13, 2007 @01:06PM (#18000012) Homepage Journal
    For the uninitiated.

    http://www.videosift.com/video/Euphoria-physics-en gine-GC-2006-demo [videosift.com]

    Looking Good.

  • And breaking the wrist strap confinement of my everyday life as my Wii-mote hums with cascading force-field contained light energy ...
  • PLEASE don't pull a KoToR II lamer by making us "Jedi" from the start (which is good) but keeping us from getting a light saber for 1/3 the game. Someone needs a slap!

    And please make the light sabers power-uppable with crystals and whatnot like KoToR. That, too, is sweet.

  • Ummm, as a kid I always wanted to be a Jedi. I didn't spend any time at all pretending I got to hunt down and kill all of the remaining good guys in the universe. Lucas appears determined to undermine any love I had for his world and series, by somehow wanting me to cheer for, not against, Vader and the dark side.
  • I think its pretty clear what will happen at the end of the game, your character dies. Theres no way around it, being Vader's apprentice (playing Dark-side) you can't live because he has no apprentice in episodes IV-VI. If you choose to be a Jedi (playing Light-side) you can't live because the only one who does is Kenobi, and if they won't let you play Vader they're certainly not gonna let you have Old Benny-Boy! Come release time I'll be proven right.
  • http://www.lucasarts.com/games/theforceunleashed/ [lucasarts.com]

    They have some good looking concept art there, but I'd like to see in-game stills.
    Also, this looks interesting:

    Digital Molecular Matter (DMM) by Pixelux Entertainment

    What is DMM? DMM -- exclusive to LucasArts for any game releases through September 2008 -- brings an unprecedented level of realism to the new generation of consoles by making completely interactive environments that react as they would in real life. From crumbling walls to shattering glass and e

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