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GNU is Not Unix Software Linux

Introducing GNU/Linux Via Applications 223

Posted by kdawson from the in-the-side-door dept.
An anonymous reader writes "A common problem with GNU/Linux for new users is not the operating system, but the switch in applications they must undertake to use it. Many who try to make the switch have little experience with the common open source applications available under GNU/Linux. The Kutztown GNU/Linux User Group, in Pennsylvania, is helping to change that on a large scale by distributing open source applications to faculty on Microsoft Windows machines first. Instead of selling GNU/Linux, the group is selling open source. Faculty at the school have been provided discs containing a number of popular open source applications compatible with Windows as part of a larger program to get more users to consider switching operating systems."
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Introducing GNU/Linux Via Applications More

Introducing GNU/Linux Via Applications

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  • Good idea (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ksd1337 ( 1029386 ) on Tuesday March 27, 2007 @03:02PM (#18506535)
    This is a good idea. Instead of alienating users, they can make them more familiar with the benefits of open-source while letting them keep the OS they know how to use. Wow, a first post. I never thought I'd make it.

    • Re:Good idea (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Seumas ( 6865 ) on Tuesday March 27, 2007 @03:08PM (#18506645)
      Agreed. This is a rather simple step to take, but one that a lot of us might not consider if we are in the position to make such decisions and efforts. OSS and Linux can be introduced in baby-steps, until the targeted person or persons is using largely open and free applications and even operating systems without really even realizing it.

      We're often too forceful with our fanatical upholding of our favored philosophies and operating systems to the detriment of our own goals. Our enthusiasm can't be forced on someone else. The enthusiasm can be seeded in another person, though. And if you cultivate it slowly and carefully, they will appreciate it even grow to feel they discovered it of their own accord, which will make them more willing to promote and evangelize the experience and the products than if we forced it on them wholesale out of the blue.

    • At KCLUG, we called it the 'Gateway Drug' (Score:5, Interesting)

      by The Monster ( 227884 ) on Tuesday March 27, 2007 @03:15PM (#18506793) Homepage
      We handed out CDs with Windows versions of FOSS apps. If people find that they can do their jobs just fine with those apps instead of Windows-only apps, then the OS doesn't matter to them anymore. Then Ubuntu came along with a combo live CD and Windows installer for several FOSS apps as an added bonus, so we've settled on that as our new sampler. I do get a kick out of the fact that Kubuntu has Firefox for Windows on the CD, but not for Linux. (Not that synaptic can't add it in a hurry.)

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by BiggyP ( 466507 )
        The LiveCD approach is nice but for certain users i've a feeling that having a bootable linux disc could really scare them if they accidentally leave it in the machine when they shut down, the other thing is that it might be nice to have OpenOffice.org for windows on the disc, it's quite an important part of the transition for most windows users. That's not to say that handing out LiveCDs is a bad idea though, having both a dedicated Windows FOSS disc and a liveCD available is probably the best solution.

        • a bootable linux disc could really scare them if they accidentally leave it in the machine when they shut down
          I think that Knoppix set the gold standard for this. When you shut down, it pops the CD tray open, and asks you to remove the CD from the drive. Every live CD I've used since that copies this feature.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by BiggyP ( 466507 )
            Funnily enough this behaviour isn't mirrored by windows when you use the windows FOSS content on the CD, if the user has chosen to boot the liveCD in the first place i wouldn't be so concerned about them forgetting to remove the disc at reboot.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Otter Escaping North ( 945051 )

      This is a good idea. Instead of alienating users, they can make them more familiar with the benefits of open-source while letting them keep the OS they know how to use.

      Exactly. It's pretty much how I got Mrs. Otter switched over. She was reluctant to give up Windows due to its familiarity. Bit by bit, switched her to Firefox, OpenOffice, and Gaim - which covered the majority of what she used a PC for. The KDE switch came later - but the idea of switching wasn't as intimidating by then - I was able t

      • Qt4 is free in Windows (Score:3, Informative)

        by orzetto ( 545509 )

        The KDE switch came later [...]

        About KDE, it seems from a quick skimming of the comments that no one has yet remarked that Qt4 is GPL'd for Windows as well (Qt3 was not). As KDE 4 comes around and applications are ported to Qt4, it will be fairly easy to recompile K3b, Amarok, digiKam, Krita, Kile and of course KOffice to Windows. Sometime later this year there may be a flurry of high-quality free software made available for Windows, it will be interesting to see how it develops.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by mocheeze ( 860870 )
      I rarely post, but I feel I should chime in. I've been conditioning my own self to using FOSS apps for a while now so that I can make the switch to Linux a lot easier down the road. There are only a couple applications left for me (Photoshop being the deal-breaker). I'm never going to upgrade to Vista, I'm just going to switch over to something like Ubuntu when I get to the point where I would need to upgrade. By then I hope we'll have a native Photoshop on Linux, or a more robust solution on WINE at least.

      • I rarely post, but I feel I should chime in. I've been conditioning my own self to using FOSS apps for a while now so that I can make the switch to Linux a lot easier down the road. There are only a couple applications left for me (Photoshop being the deal-breaker). I'm never going to upgrade to Vista, I'm just going to switch over to something like Ubuntu when I get to the point where I would need to upgrade. By then I hope we'll have a native Photoshop on Linux, or a more robust solution on WINE at least.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by ozmanjusri ( 601766 )
          For instance whereas PS has 24 bit colour channels (and CS3 may have 32 bits) GIMP doesn't even have 16 bit channels, last I heard it's coming RSN, which was more than a year ago.

          CinePaint, aka FilmGimp already supports 32 bits per channel. Use it if that's what's important to you.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by treeves ( 963993 )
        I rarely post. . .

        Wow, you werent kidding. That was your second post!

        I like a lot of open source apps (inkscape and lilypond at the top of the list) but I have little interest in switching to Linux - can't on my work computer, wife would be unhappy if I did on the home computer - and after reading much of the Unix Hater's Guide that someone here on /. linked to the other day, I have even more doubts.

    • Re:Good idea (Score:5, Insightful)

      by dvice_null ( 981029 ) on Tuesday March 27, 2007 @03:59PM (#18507481)
      > while letting them keep the OS they know how to use

      I disagree. Majority of the users of Windows don't actually know how to use it. If they have problems, they need help. And during the normal everyday use, they don't actually use the OS at all, they just use the programs installed on it.

      I asked my wife after 6 months of using Ubuntu how does she feel about using Linux and she replied. "What do you mean, I have just surfed the web and written some emails and edited some pictures. I haven't used Linux".

      So basicly if we can replace Photoshop, Office, Outlook and IE. There is no problem replacing the Windows complitely. As long as someone is providing them the support they used to have with Windows also. (Which they probably need less with the Linux.)
    • Lets be frank, the state of the majority of open source projects doesn't even come close to commercial software in terms of end-user eye candy and ease of use. Not to mention that interoperability with Microsoft software is spotty at best (anyone that's had to support OpenOffice users knows what I'm talking about). There's just as much chance that people are going to fire up the open source counterpart to apps they use, find that their documents don't display correctly in it, and conclude that OSS is a wast
  • I am assuming that the Open Office suite is included, but what else? Come to that what should be included, how about an open virus scanner for Windows.

  • OpenCD (Score:5, Informative)

    by nharmon ( 97591 ) on Tuesday March 27, 2007 @03:07PM (#18506643)
    I enjoy giving away copies of the OpenCD [theopencd.org]. It contains a lot of common open source programs that run under Microsoft Windows.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by JacquesDemien ( 995045 )
      I am often asked by family, friends, and coworkers (I work in IT and have contact with a large number of end-users) what applications I use, and what I recommend that they use. I do suggest GNU/Linux, but clearly most of them are using Windows and prefer to keep it that way for now. Here is the list of applications which I usually give them. Granted, some of these are NOT "free as in freedom" but are rather just "free as in beer" since, as noted elsewhere in this thread, for some categories of software t

    • Re:OpenCD (Score:4, Informative)

      by bcrowell ( 177657 ) on Tuesday March 27, 2007 @04:43PM (#18508097) Homepage
      Here [libertytextbooks.org] is a similar CD of free books, intended mainly to be given away to university professors to let them know there are free alternatives to low-quality, high-cost textbooks.

    • Please note (Score:3, Funny)

      by einhverfr ( 238914 )
      If you install that CD on your computer, RMS will start requesting that you call the operating system GNU/Windows ;-)

  • KDE 4 (Score:5, Interesting)

    by javilon ( 99157 ) on Tuesday March 27, 2007 @03:08PM (#18506663) Homepage
    When KDE 4 is released, many of its apps will be compiled for windows. There are some of them like amarok and k3b that are the best in their class, including closed source ones, and there are others that are as good as the closed sourced ones like krita, krusader, scribus, kivio and some others.
    When they are available for windows, and if you also consider firefox, thunderbird and openoffice you will be able to run a windows system with most of the applications open sourced.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by CastrTroy ( 595695 )
      Any word on when this would happen. I love Amarok, Digikam, and Kopete, and would love to have the running on windows. I'm currently running VMWare just to run Digikam, and a couple other linux Apps. I would really love to be able to run these on a windows box.

      • Re:KDE 4 (Score:4, Interesting)

        by pavon ( 30274 ) on Tuesday March 27, 2007 @03:36PM (#18507099)
        The tenative release date for KDE 4 (unix) is around the end of October. The developers hope for the Windows port to be runnable (technology preview / alpha quality) at that time. I know, I am chomping at the bit myself :)

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Odin The Ravager ( 980765 )
          Actually, amarok won't be ported for a while (if ever)
          from the amarok developer's blog [kde.org]:

          amaroK will not be ported to windows until (if ever):

          * amaroK 2.0, which will use the Qt 4 toolkit. Qt 3.x releases, although have windows editions, are not compatible with the amaroK GPL license
          * KDE-libs, and respective engines are ported to windows
          * There is an open source windows developer willing to do all the hard work. There is as much chance of any of the current dev's porting to windows as th

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by pavon ( 30274 )
            That blog post is almost two years old. The first two bullet items will be done by October. I don't know whether the Amarok Roadmap [kde.org] is reliable (it is a wiki) but it says:

            Version 2.0
            Estimated Release Date: The same day or slightly before KDE 4.0 is released
            Will be Released on Linux, Windows and Mac.
            Will kick all other media player arse :-).

    • I have used both Scribus and Indesign (as well as Quark, but only under protest) and I can say that Scribus is NOT repeat NOT ready for prime time. It is getting quite good but they haven't even nailed down a file format yet. If your other examples are as sketchy, then I'm not too impressed. Scribus, by the way, is available on Windows right now.

    • Reverse Wine? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by parvenu74 ( 310712 )
      KDE for Windows would be nice, as well as Gnome for Windows. But what would really be helpful is an EASY way to set up a Linux application environment on Windows similar to Wine on Linux. That way users can get used to not only OpenOffice and Firefox, but also programs like Evolution, Grip, gEdit/KEdit, etc. so that when they finally switch over to Linux they won't have to figure out such things as "now what program do I use to replace iTunes that doesn't run on Windows and therefore I couldn't use/get frus
    • One thing I always wondered about KDE 4.0 was whether the window manager itself will be ported, or if it's just the applications and the libraries needed for platform compatibility. Because I would love get the look and feel of KDE, from the kicker to the konsole to the mouse gestures, on Windows.
  • I've recently installed Open Office and Gimp on a few of my customers M$ machines when they were facing the option of a $$$$ M$ Office & Adobe photoshop purchase.
    Their response? "Free? No way!"
    Two weeks later: "I LOVE these programs, they work great! Thanks!"
    I charged them nothing to install the programs, I did it for free because I like my customers and want to keep them happy. I'm not out to gouge them, I'm there to make happy customers.

    I don't expect them to convert to a "Linux" installation becau

    • GIMP and Photoshop (Score:3, Interesting)

      by falconwolf ( 725481 )

      I've recently installed Open Office and Gimp on a few of my customers M$ machines when they were facing the option of a $$$$ M$ Office & Adobe photoshop purchase.

      Your clients, customers, I dare say aren't graphic or photography pros, are they? There's just no way GIMP comes close to being a dropin replacement for Photoshop! It doesn't even have 16 bit colour channels whereas Photoshop has 24 bit channels. And I've hear CS3 will have 32 bit channels.

      Falcon

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by TheModelEskimo ( 968202 )

        It doesn't even have 16 bit colour channels whereas Photoshop has 24 bit channels. And I've hear CS3 will have 32 bit channels.

        I'm a professional. I even teach Photoshop classes. And this is not a big deal. Really you need the added bit depth for photography work. But when I do come across this shortcoming of GIMP from time to time, it DOES make itself annoying. So what do I do? Open the image in another open source image editor that can handle the extra bits. Make my edits. Back to GIMP.

        The only thing t

  • "GNU/Linux" (Score:2, Insightful)

    by guspasho ( 941623 )
    Off-topic, I know, but is there any reason the author consistently refers to "GNU/Linux" rather than Linux?

    • Re:"GNU/Linux" (Score:5, Informative)

      by FMota91 ( 1050752 ) on Tuesday March 27, 2007 @03:19PM (#18506847)
      Because Linux is only the kernel, and what most people know as Linux is actually Linux + GNU Programs. So, calling it GNU/Linux is more accurate.
      • GNU didn't create GNOME or X or KDE or Amarok or Gaim or OpenOffice. They currently maintain most of the basic utilities for UNIX, but most non-developer desktop users don't directly interact with any GNU tools.

        So it's GNU/MIT/Sun/GNOME Foundation/KDE foundation/Gaim project/Linux.

        Might as well add Berlios and Sourceforge, since, though they don't control or own many projects, they help out a fair bit. And I use tetex, so add that, too. And nongnu.org hosts CVS...

        GNU/MIT/Sun/GNOME Foundation/KDE foundation/

        • nitpick (Score:3, Informative)

          by pavon ( 30274 )
          From the GNOME Website [gnome.org]:

          GNOME is Free Software and part of the GNU project, dedicated to giving users and developers the ultimate level of control over their desktops, their software, and their data. Find out more about the GNU project and Free Software at gnu.org.
          So, yes GNU did create the GNU Network Object Model Environment, as much as any other GNU project.

        • GNU didn't create GNOME or X or KDE or Amarok or Gaim or OpenOffice.

          What a silly thing to say. Do you call MS Windows: "WindowsVistaOffice2007PhotoshopNeroPremier"? No, you don't! No-one calls GNU/Linux: "GNU/MIT/Sun/GNOME Foundation/KDE foundation/Gaim project/Linux".

          But more importantly, all these apps that you mention are superfluous for many systems. Many a GNU/Linux system has no need of a Window Manager or even X, let alone such GUI applications. But just you try booting the Linux kernel without a

          • So if i compile and install all of those nifty GNU utilites on my OpenServer, does it become GNU/SCO openServer and the resulting paraddox cause the universe to implode?

        • The GNU/Linux operating system was created as a result of the GNU project. The only two components that could be considered "core" to the GNU/Linux system that aren't the work of the GNU project are Linux and X.org - and we can discount X.org unless you want to tell me that Sun doesn't get to take credit for Solaris. Hell, Solaris with Gnome and X.org has less of a claim to getting to name their operating system than the FSF does with the GNU system.

          So it's GNU/MIT/Sun/GNOME Foundation/KDE foundation/Gaim

        • Just say GNU! (Score:3, Interesting)

          by jonasj ( 538692 )
          If you only want to call it one word (which is very reasonable), that word is GNU. Because that is the operating system you are running: The GNU operating system.

          You don't refer to Windows XP as "NTKRNL32.EXE" either.
          • Assuming you don't know the actual definition of "operating system".

            Hint: Operating systems don't include text editors.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by glwtta ( 532858 )
          GNU didn't create GNOME or X or KDE or Amarok or Gaim or OpenOffice.

          And yet they created GCC and glibc, which those applications rely on... I guess that's why they call it the OS?

          And of course, they did create GNOME.

      • Then we should call Debian Linux/Debian to be more accurately differentiate it from Hurd/Debian.

        In addition Linus has the right to call his OS whatever he wants to, and he called it Linux. Yes its true, Linux depends on GNU; but it doesn't matter. Does the FSF require that users of their software name their systems based on GNU? or is this just a special case because Linux is widely successful?

        The fact is if Linux were not successful, the RMS would have not tried or cared to prepend the GNU brand to Linus

    • Re:"GNU/Linux" (Score:5, Funny)

      by orclevegam ( 940336 ) on Tuesday March 27, 2007 @03:28PM (#18506985) Journal
      Because when you refer to it as just Linux, it makes RMS cry.
    • I think it is some old flavor of Linux, I've never tried it though.
      I kid I kid
      But I do wonder if RMS has nightmares with people saying that.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Gonoff ( 88518 )

      This a common practice amongst certain groups, including the pedantic, politically motivated and those who have been lectured at by Richard Stallman.


      I call it Linux because nobody apart from IT enthusiasts would know what "GNU/Linux" is!

    • OSTG is somewhat at odds with Torvalds over the naming issue. I'm not sure of the details.

  • I like ordering Ubuntu's Free ShipIt CDs (Score:3, Informative)

    by rolfwind ( 528248 ) on Tuesday March 27, 2007 @03:20PM (#18506851)
    to give to people interested in Open Source.

    They are nicely packaged, have a CD with some art on there, etcetera.

    Personally, I think nothing looks as cheap (in a bad way) or shadier than a burnt CD-R especially with permanent marker on there.

    Is there any place that sells Open Source CDs or makes low runs of CDs with professional art at a low price?

    Otherwise I may looking into a lightscribe burner - it look a little better.
    • If enough people are interested I will order a silkscreened run.
      I want orders and payment up front (we'd need to order about 1K disks)
      question:
      disk only or with a foldover cover (adds about 50 cents to the cost per disk)?
      -nB

  • Instead of selling GNU/Linux, the group is selling open source [emphasis added].

    Who was clueless enough to let that slip through? Love RMS or hate him, that should clearly be "selling free software".

    • Who was clueless enough to let that slip through? Love RMS or hate him, that should clearly be "selling free software".

      Oh sure... confuse everyone with "selling free software".

      I kid, I kid.

    • Yeah, yeah, I know, this is 'free as a freedom', yet it still reminds those "Free Gift! You only pay for shipping, handling and processing. Other applicable charges may apply (and some unapplicable charges may apply as well)."
  • From the article:

    The group wanted to make a point that Open Source software works on Windows machines, not just on computers running a version of GNU/Linux

    So I don't think it's accurate to say this group is introducing "GNU/Linux." Quite the contrary, really: they're introducing users to free software that runs on Windows. There's no apparent direct connection between replacing MS Office with OpenOffice (for example) and replacing MS Windows with GNU/Linux.

    On the other hand, introducing users to free

  • First Steps (Score:2, Informative)

    by JPLemme ( 106723 )
    I was a typical Windows user, until about three years ago I decided to try Firefox. I was impressed. Then I got fed up with Norton AV and downloaded ZoneAlarm and AVG for my wife's PC (not libre software, I know). Then I got fed up with MS's WGA program and installed SuSE on my main PC. (I skipped right over my planned OO on Windows step.) Now I'm using Kubuntu and I have no intention of ever going back to Windows.

    But if it hadn't been for the easy availability and high quality of Firefox on Windows, I woul
  • I'm an alumnus of Kutztown University (1993), and remember the technology environment there being somewhat resistant to change, to put it mildly. If there are any current KU GNU/Linux users there, may I ask you a question: what is it like being a Linux user there nowadays? Does the IT staff give you a hard time about it? Does the current student environment require specific Windows-based programs? Are there elements of the res-net that are difficult to live with if you're not running Mac or Windows?
  • Sure getting people to try open source apps is a good idea. Distributing them by silently slipping CD's under a door is a bad idea.

    I worry about how many of the 400 faculty members would install software slipped under their door. If a significant portion of them install the software, then this would prove to be an easy distribution path for an evil person to set up a worm or backdoor on computers that had access to student data and grades.

    The worm or backdoor could even be easily incorporated into the

  • Cool (Score:2, Interesting)

    by opec ( 755488 )
    I had an experience with this kind of thing just today. My music education class is taking a short detour into technology use in the classroom for the next couple of weeks. I was happily surprised to note that one of the prominent examples of music software to use was Audacity. The link was in big bold letters on the handout: http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]
  • > A common problem with GNU/Linux for new users is not the operating system, but the switch in applications they must undertake to use it. Many who try to make the switch have little experience with the common open source applications available under GNU/Linux.

    This is a ridiculous statement! What *is* an operating system, if not a set of applications?! [don't get too technical, to the user, an operating system exists as the applications presented, and the interactions between them]

    I can't believe many p

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by nasch ( 598556 )

      A common problem with GNU/Linux for new users is not the operating system, but the switch in applications they must undertake to use it. Many who try to make the switch have little experience with the common open source applications available under GNU/Linux.

      This is a ridiculous statement!

      It's not ridiculous at all. If there were Linux versions of Outlook, Photoshop, Office, Taxcut/whatever financial software, and so on... how many people would have a problem using the same apps in Linux? Very few - t


  • This is a good idea but I find open-source software lacking when it comes to their Windows counterparts.

    If you compare a open-source software to it's Windows counterpart, you will notice they applications in OSS are downright ugly and lacking many features. For example, AOL and Yahoo Instant Messengers.

    It is a hard sell to get a Windows user to give up nice looking applications packed with features for open-source software the lacks a nice ui and many features as their current software. I will never
  • Where I work we have been routinely installing OpenOffice on every computer we repair. The other tech and I are both Linux users, and we like promoting OSS. I found out about http://theopencd.org/ [theopencd.org]The Open CD a few weeks ago. It's got 30 OSS Windows apps (OOo, FF, Neverball, Really Slick Screensavers, PDF Creator, GIMP, Blender...) with an easy little installer and info about each. We label them and give them out with fixed computers.
  • I was at the bookstore today and found this book about doing open source on windows. It was several chapters explaining what each application did, how to use it and how to install it. It also came with a CD with all the applications on it. The one problem? It was filed next to the Linux books and away from the Windows books.

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