MTV Bails on Microsoft's URGE Store

Marlowe writes "MTV's once-ballyhooed partnership with Microsoft appears to be all but dead. MTV is teaming up with RealNetworks to form Rhapsody America, with Verizon handling wireless distribution. It's a big blow to Microsoft, too. 'With the creation of Rhapsody America, the writing is on the wall for MTV and Microsoft's Urge music store partnership. Although the Microsoft-MTV marriage was announced with great fanfare, it was likely headed for divorce court right from the start due to Microsoft's plans to turn PlaysForSure into a second-class citizen with the launch of the Zune — and its self-contained music ecosystem.' When asked about the future of Urge, MTV Music Group President Toffler was terse. 'We are in discussions with Microsoft now and will be on Windows Media Player 11 until further notice,' he said. While the Urge brand will ultimately disappear, Toffler said that 'a lot' of Urge's elements will live on in Rhapsody America."

gg no re

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple already won this game.

Re:gg no re

[PopeRatzo]

Apple already won this game.

Um, I think the millions of users of The Pirate Bay might disagree.

Sometimes, the game goes not to the strongest or the swiftest, but to the one that's free.

Re:

[Shag]

They might, yes.

But I can't seem to find The Pirate Bay's figures for how many users they have, or how many billion tracks have been downloaded. Are they keeping track? It'd make it a lot easier to compare to Apple's numbers for iTunes.

Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would any company want to partner with Microsoft? They seem to drop commitments at a whim (PlaysForSure) and do not seem to ever has their partners interest anywhere in their list of priorities.

Are there any examples of Microsoft ever participating in a mutually beneficial relationship with another company?

Re:Why?

[MightyMartian]

Are there any examples of Microsoft ever participating in a mutually beneficial relationship with another company?

That's like asking if anyone has ever entered a mutually beneficial relationship with Count Dracula.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[christurkel]

Its odd how business keep partnering with MS only to get screwed down the road later. They never learn.

Re:

[Jaseoldboss]

The partners in the "Plays for Sure" deal should thank their lucky stars that Microsoft just moved on and left it to die.

Other companies that entered into deals with M$ weren't so lucky, compare with Sendo [theregister.co.uk] who partnered with them only to (article alledges) have their IP stolen and forced into bankruptcy by unfair business practices. That's what I'd call getting screwed, at least Creative are still in business.

Re:

[hausrath]

Are there any examples of Microsoft ever participating in a mutually beneficial relationship with another company?

That's like asking if anyone has ever entered a mutually beneficial relationship with Count Dracula.

My relationship with him's been fine. Except he keeps trying to eat my cereal...

Re:

[rajafarian]

My relationship with him's been fine. Except he keeps trying to eat my cereal...

That's Count Chocula, silly.

Because they are businessmen

[WindBourne]

Everybody thinks that they will come out ahead by dealing with MS. But MS's game is NOT tech, but marketing and legalize. The absolute best that you can expect is to come out even. Until business ppl realize that you will be screwed by dealing with them, they will continue to take this path. The interesting point on all this, is that if you pay attention, you will find that only a few ex-MS execs. will deal with MS until they are monster size themselves. While they are little or medium size, they avoid contact with MS. Shows that some of the MS execs are not idtios.

Re:

[The One and Only]

But MS's game is NOT tech, but marketing and legalize.

You seem to have confused Microsoft with NORML [norml.org].

Re:

[riceboy50]

They seem to drop commitments at a whim (PlaysForSure)

While I agree with you in principle, to be fair, Microsoft dropped "PlaysForSure" after the deal with MTV to create URGE had already happened. There are probably earlier examples of Microsoft stabbing their partners in the back, which could have served as warning signs to MTV ahead of time, but this is not one of them. It can only serve to inform future would-be dealings with Microsoft.

Re:

[Ed Avis]

While I agree with you in principle, to be fair, Microsoft dropped "PlaysForSure" after the deal with MTV to create URGE had already happened.

Isn't that the point? They made a partnership and persuaded MTV to use PlaysForSure, then after making the deal, they decided to effectively sideline PlaysForSure and switch to the Zune instead.

BTW,

"Our music brands, MTV, CMT, and VH1 can now be found on multiple screens as our audience has made it crystal clear that they really want their music accessible wherever t

Re:

[riceboy50]

Isn't that the point?

It is for anyone considering making a deal with Microsoft now or in the future, but this particular example was not available to MTV since they were the victim.

Re:

[MojoStan]

While I agree with you in principle, to be fair, Microsoft dropped "PlaysForSure" after the deal with MTV to create URGE had already happened.

Isn't that the point? They made a partnership and persuaded MTV to use PlaysForSure, then after making the deal, they decided to effectively sideline PlaysForSure and switch to the Zune instead.

Did Microsoft really drop or sideline PlaysForSure after creating the Zune store? AFAIK, there are still several big-name online music/video stores that continue to use PlaysForSure [playsforsure.com]. Adding Zune (which doesn't make sense to me) does not necessarily mean they abandoned PlaysForSure.

To me, it looks like Microsoft continued its support for PlaysForSure after creating Zune. MTV is the one who dropped Microsoft/PlaysForSure. MTV may have gotten a better deal from Real Networks and saw a larger market from the

Re:

[Ed Avis]

Did Microsoft really drop or sideline PlaysForSure after creating the Zune store?

That's the way it has been spun in the media. I don't know whether adding Zune to PlaysForSure 'makes sense', but it does look like Microsoft is abandoning PlaysForSure customers and music companies by conspicuously refusing to let music bought in that system play on Microsoft's own heavily-promoted music player. If you do launch a DRM-infested proprietary music file format you should at least make some effort to ensure the f

Re:

[badasscat]

Are there any examples of Microsoft ever participating in a mutually beneficial relationship with another company?

Ironically enough, the one instance I can think of is Apple.

MS's $500 million investment probably saved the company from bankruptcy. This was at the low point of Apple's market share, reputation and stock price. MS propped them up because they knew Apple customers were potential MS customers too, even if they didn't use their OS.

The deal also called for a new release of Office on Mac, which en

Re:

[admactanium]

MS's $500 million investment probably saved the company from bankruptcy. This was at the low point of Apple's market share, reputation and stock price. MS propped them up because they knew Apple customers were potential MS customers too, even if they didn't use their OS.

it was $100M. apple was far far away from bankruptcy at the time. however, apple did need to sure a version of office of mac for their future viability. ms likely propped them up because they heard the DOJ breathing down their neck.

That dea

Re:Why?

[mcmaddog]

Ironically enough, the one instance I can think of is Apple.

MS's $500 million investment probably saved the company from bankruptcy. This was at the low point of Apple's market share, reputation and stock price. MS propped them up because they knew Apple customers were potential MS customers too, even if they didn't use their OS.

$500 million? Saved Apple from bankruptcy? Microsoft invested $150 million in non voting shares and Apple had over $6 billion in cash in the bank at the time. They were nowhere near going bankrupt. Also Apple customers aren't "potential" MS customers, MS is the largest supplier of Mac software after Apple. What saved Apple was the return of Steve Jobs and his focusing the company on profitable products like the rollout of the iMac.

Also, except for Office 6 when MS tried to use the same code base for Mac and Windows versions, the Mac version, starting with it's debut for Mac before any PC version existed, has often been thought of as better. Partly due to MS' use of the smaller Mac market to test new features that if well received become part of the Windows version, but also due greatly to the developers in the Mac Business Unit at Microsoft which are true Mac users.

Re:

[Shuh]

Ironically enough, the one instance I can think of is Apple.

There's very little irony that a company like Apple, which continues to be 1-5 years ahead of Microsoft on most fronts, continues to thrive in spite of the me-too, Milli-Vanilli, corporate giant always breathing down its neck.

MS's $500 million investment probably saved the company from bankruptcy.

You must have used one of those old Pentium processors with the FDIV bug to help you write this statement, because somehow it computed $150 million a

Re:

[aarku]

Microsoft-Apple Relationship. (This thread should end well! Muahahaha)

Re:

[genaldar]

Apple seems to be doing fine.

Re:

[Technician]

Until they fix the quality, price, licensing, and DRM issues, I'll stick with either Creative Commons, or Public Domain works.

Commercial offerings are often limited to private home use only. The other offerings can be played at the block party on the big screen or other social gathering. I just downloaded the older Little Shop of Horrors and Night of the Living Dead.

http://www.archive.org/details/Little_ShopOf_Horro rs.avi [archive.org]
http://www.archive.org/details/night_of_the_living _dead [archive.org]
Note many of these links are

Re:

[mwvdlee]

Because if you understand that Microsoft will eventually try to screw you over and if you play your cards accordingly, you could make quite a bit of money as long as the partnership lasts.

What makes MTV think....

[8127972]

....That it can seriously compete with the Apple iTunes store regardless of who they are partnered with? The iTunes ecosystem has too much of a head start to be caught in the short term IMHO.

Re:

[anthonyclark]

Because MTV (and the Music Labels) view Apple as the upstart n00b.

"Who do they think they are, we're M-Fucking-T-V! We'll bury them with this new system!"

Everyone thinks their team can win, whatever the odds...

Re:

[decipher_saint]

I'll tell you why; Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Who better to partner with? What other software colossus has such a large captive audience?

Re:

[eln]

Apparently MTV still has some influence among the 12-18 set, so I would imagine they can get some traction with that demographic. Apple's demo does intersect that, but there is opportunity on the lower end if they can tie it to a cheaper music player that's more accessible to the tween/early teen set.

Re:

[RatPh!nk]

That is an interesting point, and I don't doubt that you are right, the question that I have is this. Of those 12-18 year olds, how many of that actually see MTV as Music Television anymore? There was a time, not that terribly long ago, where they actually spent a considerably portion of the day playing music and were influential in the early careers of many musicians. How true is that anymore? How much M is left in MTV?

As an aside, when I first heard MTV was partnering with MS, I thought, with MTV's hel

Re:

[saider]

I thought the M was for Miscellaneous.

Seriously, music videos have not been a part of that station since the late 80's.

MTV2 was a bit better IIRC (last time I watched was about 7-8 years ago.

Re:

[Hitchcock_Blonde]

The flaw in that theory: a huge percentage of those 12-18 year olds want iPods.

Re:

[mcrbids]

There are and will be competitors in the marketplace that will effectively compete with iTunes.

I have an iPod and a Creative Zen. Guess which one I use more? (hint: it's NOT the iPod)

What I don't get is why Microsoft shot their own "PlaysForSure" into "PlaysForMaybe" with their Zune. That strikes me as the most fundamentally stupid thing they could have possibly done, pretty much torpedoing both projects in one fell swoop.

It's a dog food thing - Microsoft wants other companies to buy into PlaysForSure but

Every Empire falls eventually.

[Dan_Bercell]

Microsoft Windows wont be the number 1 OS forever, just like ITunes wont be the number 1 music store forever.

Something cheaper and better will come out eventually.

Re:

[plasmacutter]

Critical system error: strings "MTV" and "Think" found on same line.

Re:

[SilentChris]

What makes Microsoft think it can seriously compete in video games? The PS2 ecosystem had too much of a head start to be caught in the short term.

And yet here MS is, tied neck and neck with Wii for 1st place as PS3 flounders.

Re:

[damsa]

MS can't compete in video games, they are still hemorrhaging money. Any other company, they would've folded 10 times over.

Re:

[vux984]

Uh... Xbox360 had a 1 year head start, and they are neck and neck *today*, at less than a year after the Wii launched.

That's like putting a toddler against an adult in the 100 yard dash, but giving the toddler a 20 second headstart. Sure at 25 seconds they're 'neck and neck'. But that's a pretty meaningless thing to say. At 26 the adult's left the toddler far behind, and at 30 the race is over and the toddlers still crossing the halfway mark.

The Wii is selling overall more than twice as fast as the Xbox and

Easy: a different model

[parsnip11]

What makes them think they can compete? How about a totally different approach? Rhapsody works on a subscription model... You pay $10 a month, you never own a thing and it's all you can eat. I know someone who has it and loves it. It's not for everybody but there is money to be made for sure.

Re:

[Schnapple]

The iTunes ecosystem

How is an online store whose songs can only be played by one type of player from a single vendor (the same one who runs the store) considered an "ecosystem"? PlaysForSure, had it ever taken off, would have been an ecosystem - lots of players, lots of vendors, one thing in common.

Of course it didn't work, which is why the Zune cut it off at the knees in hopes that the Zune Store could do what the iTunes Music Store did.

Re:

[NMerriam]

How is an online store whose songs can only be played by one type of player from a single vendor (the same one who runs the store) considered an "ecosystem"?

Well, ignoring the fact that you can buy an ever-increasing number of songs from the iTunes Store that will play on any platform, on any device, the iTunes ecosystem is not centered around the store. The ecosystem is the iTunes software and the iPod dock connector -- everything else is just the product of the day.

iTunes was a fantastically successful

Re:

[Schnapple]

I think we've entered Semantics territory. What you describe is an ecosystem of iPod accessories, not of iTunes. iTunes-the-program only works with one player, the iPod. iTunes-the-music-store does now sell non DRM'd music but it still doesn't work with any other music players besides iPod (iTunes-the-program that is, the music could in theory work elsewhere). And how is the iPod any more compatible with other players on the market than its competitors? You're comparing the twelve companies that make iPod c

No tears shed here

[Arathon]

This may be somewhat off-topic, but I can't mourn this passing. "URGE" always seemed to me to be one of the ugliest, dumbest-sounding names of all the music download services available. And its front-row presence in WMP11 has always annoyed me to no end.

Plus, who really cares about these services anymore, now that WalMart is offering EMI and Universal MP3s without DRM for cheaper than iTunes, at 256 kbps....

Re:

[MightyMartian]

This may be somewhat off-topic, but I can't mourn this passing. "URGE" always seemed to me to be one of the ugliest, dumbest-sounding names of all the music download services available.

I dunno. It's kinda catchy. "I've got an URGE for Britney Spears" just sort of rolls off the tongue.

Re:

[funkatron]

That's not the kind of URGE that a music store can help you with.

Re:

[badasscat]

That's not the kind of URGE that a music store can help you with.

Yeah, a psychiatrist would probably be a better option.

Re:

[owlnation]

"URGE" always seemed to me to be one of the ugliest, dumbest-sounding names of all the music download services

I agree. I sometimes wonder whether Microsoft's Marketingdroids run on Win ME. By word association, "urge" connects in my head to "bowel movement". Brown Zunes don't help this. Nor, for that matter, does the use of the word "squirt".

My tip for MS though is that it's time to call it quits. When you are losing contracts to a company whose media player is so universally reviled that even die hard

Re:No tears shed here

[niceone]

"URGE" always seemed to me to be one of the ugliest, dumbest-sounding names

Look on the bright side, they could have called it "Surge", think what a PR disaster that would have been.

Re:

[kat_skan]

Even worse they could have left it "URGE" and made it work with the Zune. Then you'd all the time have people offering to squirt you some URGE noises.

Re:

[Rude Turnip]

It's actually a pretty good service when WMP 11 isn't crashing. I loaded up my Creative Zen with thousands of songs and I'm only paying $15 a month, which is about what some people pay for satellite radio, but with less control. It was a good way to explore new types of music without shelling out a fortune on iTunes.

Re:

[ben there...]

"URGE" always seemed to me to be one of the ugliest, dumbest-sounding names of all the music download services available.

They wanted "SQUIRT" but Ballmer already called dibs on that one.

Re:

[Bassman59]

This may be somewhat off-topic, but I can't mourn this passing. "URGE" always seemed to me to be one of the ugliest, dumbest-sounding names of all the music download services available.

Clearly, there was no Urge Overkill here.

MTV...Music....

[jellomizer]

What does MTV have to Do with Music.... Back in the 80s it had a bunch of music videos but now it more kinda of a TV Teen magazine, that sometimes shows a music video. As for a huge loss for Microsoft probably not it might be a minor one. But I think this is the lease of Microsoft Worries. Like those billions of dollars they accidentally paid for to help support Linux.

Re:

[moo083]

Agreed. Its interesting that MTV has to have a Music Subdivision, isn't it? Anyways, I am hopeful. I have used iTunes the whole time, but I would think about LOOKING at other services if they provide DRM free content. Nowadays, this is slightly more likely, though I think I would settle for iTunes compatible DRM. I wonder what this thing will look like.

Re:

[MightyMartian]

What does MTV have to Do with Music.... Back in the 80s it had a bunch of music videos but now it more kinda of a TV Teen magazine, that sometimes shows a music video. As for a huge loss for Microsoft probably not it might be a minor one. But I think this is the lease of Microsoft Worries. Like those billions of dollars they accidentally paid for to help support Linux.

Laguna Beach killed the video star
Laguna Beach killed the video star
In my pants or in my car,
We can't go back, we've gone too far.
Laguna Beac

Re:

[e2d2]

And even when they played music videos they didn't own them. They own shows like Real Life and such. So it begs the question - what would they offer anyway? They aren't content producers so much as distributors of other's content. It hardly makes them a "Goliath" in the music industry.

That being said, content creators and publishers will look to MT V to drive them to their own distro sites, like Itunes and gbox.

Because someone will ask..

[BlackCobra43]

ballyhoo (bl'-h')

n., pl. -hoos.
Sensational or clamorous advertising or publicity.
Noisy shouting or uproar.
tr.v., -hooed, -hooing, -hoos.
To advertise or publicize by sensational methods.

Rhapsody?

[downix]

I'd almost forgotten Rhapsody even existed anymore with the rise of iTunes. I remember when Real originally rolled out their service, it seems like forever ago. They couldn't make it work, and this was pre-iTunes. I hope for them that they can somehow capture it, the Nth time around.

Re:

[Trauma_Hound1]

What do you mean they couldn't make it work? It works just fine.

Re:

[downix]

Well, I should have been more clear, they didn't capture market saturation like iTunes has.

Me, I'm all for alternatives. Rhapsody, Napster, iTunes, give me more options, and let me decide!

Re:

[Albanach]

I'd almost forgotten Rhapsody even existed anymore with the rise of iTunes. I remember when Real originally rolled out their service, it seems like forever ago.

Unlikely, given that Real purchased Rhapsody they didn't create it. The bought it as part of their acquisition of listen.com

I've subscribed to Rhapsody for many years. I don't know why you say they couldn't make it work?

I've always been more prone to losing CDs than collecting them, so a subscription service suits me perfectly. That it works thro

Re:

[downix]

Oh man, I'd forgotten about it being listen.com's originally.

I just got to thinking how it never captured the presense that Apple did through iTunes or Napster did during it's heyday. But then again, Rhapsody is still going strong on a "slow but steady" course, and has outlasted all of it's competition to date.

Yet another victim...

[xednieht]

Perhaps it's time for Microsoft to bail on Ballmer.

The whole Urge thing lacked the strategic finesse and vision Microsoft would otherwise be capable of.

There's only one strategic foundation that can challenge Apple+iTunes and Urge was not it, and the Rhapsody-MTV-Verizon approach is not it either.

Re:Yet another victim...

[MightyMartian]

The whole Urge thing lacked the strategic finesse and vision Microsoft would otherwise be capable of.

Yeah, who would have thought that the company that made Microsoft Bob and Windows ME could ever partner in something so lame.

Will we finally get 64-bit Vista compatability?

[nincehelser]

I've used Rhapsody for years, but it's been really annoying that their DRM software doesn't support 64-bit Vista.

Convergence of 3 Irrelevant Dinosaurs

[Ritz_Just_Ritz]

Let's see....

Real managed to totally blow an overwhelming lead in streaming media as Realplayer was allowed to die on the vine. Add MTV to the mix. They were relevant to the music scene about 20 years ago. Now it's just reality TV plus advertising. And Verizon...a CDMA network with the highest prices in the country and a track record of disabling phone features that cut into their "buy it from us or not at all" corporate culture. Yeah, that ought to be a real powerhouse for peeing away a few hundred million of investment capital.

*yawn*

Re:

[moegoldberg]

just because Mtv is irrelevant to music, doesn't mean they are irrelevant.

Re:

[rastoboy29]

No shit.  It's stuff like this that makes me feel like I really ought to be able to find a million bucks to finance the game I'm making.  Cuz I'm like, competent.  At least.  Unlike these jokers.

...all but dead...

[Wm_K]

I'm not an American, so maybe I don't understand the logic of this grammar. But this 'once-ballyhooed partnership with Microsoft appears to be all but dead.'. In other words, the partnership is everything except dead. I know that in logic and implication can't be reversed by definition. But I believe you could also write 'all but dead' as 'nothing but alive' - which would mean that MTV has a healthy partnership with Microsoft. Which makes no sense with the rest of the story. It's so confusing!

Re:...all but dead...

[RoverDaddy]

'all but xxx' is an American (or perhaps more generally English) idiom that means 'about as close to xxx as you can get without actually being there yet.'.
On the the other hand, the phrase 'anything but xxx' means the speaker doesn't think the thing is anywhere near 'xxx' even if other people do.
Hope this helps.

Re:

[Otter]

"All but dead" means "just short of dead". It's an archaic usage of "all but".

Re:

[MenTaLguY]

It's an idiom; just as "couldn't care less" and "could care less" are synonymous.

Re:

[the_humeister]

You sure about that? "Couldn't care less" means that you can't go any lower in caring about something, whereas "could care less" means that you do care about something because you could go lower in your caring but have chosen not to. I think people just don't quite understand the meanings between these two phrases.

Re:

[absoluteflatness]

That was sort of the point of the GP. While under inspection it doesn't really make any sense, that's what those phrases are understood to mean. Personally, I hate the "could care less" form, but it seems to be the way that most people I've met use it. No one has ever said "I could care less" to mean that they do care some small amount about something. It seems to me that people just don't think about exactly what they're saying when they use phrases like that.

I've also heard many times that "I could

Re:

[badasscat]

It's an idiom; just as "couldn't care less" and "could care less" are synonymous.

"could care less" isn't an idiom, it's sarcasm. For some reason, most people don't get that - even a lot of people that say it. See this link [worldwidewords.org], although that writer only kinda starts to get it near the end. It is definitely a Queens, New York example of sarcasm.

And it's wrong to suggest that those who say it don't know that "couldn't care less" is the correct form. However we may talk here, we're not all dumb.

btw, the proper

Proprietary Vendor Lockin

[TheWoozle]

MTV, Verizon, and Real? It's the unholy trinity!

I don't want music in a proprietary streaming format any more than I want a subscription service for my Cheerios.

When will music companies get it? They have to compete with *free* mp3's that can be played anywhere, anytime, on a myriad of devices. Why would I pay a lot for "branded" streaming music that locks me into Verizon's craptastic service and force-feeds me what the MTV marketing nazguls think I should listen to?

This is not a troll!

[east coast]

I'm not a big fan of TV and I'm not much into today's pop music so I must ask...

Does MTV count for much of anything anymore? I know when I was in high school they had a lot of pull but the last I had seen of them was that they seemed to be like a fish in it's death throws on dry land. They tried to release a few films that saw little or no profit, their music empire was reduced to 10 music videos a day and the rest of their shows were a couple of really really bad "reality" shows that were as predictable as most pre-teen dramas on Nickelodeon.

I'm just wondering if they ever got their shit together or if the modern pop scene is so bad that this passes as a "music" channel and people are forced to stew in their own misery and filth or defect to VH1 with all the Glenn Fry, Enya and Stevie Nicks videos one can tolerate.

Re:This is not a troll!

[jahudabudy]

My sister-in-law just graduated high school. She was a cheer leader, got poor grades, and seemed to be constantly bitching about one or another of the girls in her grade. So I assume she is pretty much the target audience for "teen fashion" crap. She LOVES those MTV "reality" drama shows. I seldom ever talk to her much beyond "Hi" and "Pass the salt", but I do overhear her conversations with my wife. It actually took me some time to be able to distinguish between her stories of petty drama that involved her and her peers and the stupid stories of petty drama that she was regurgitating from these shows. It still takes me some time to catch on that this story is real after she changes boyfriends; I tend to assume the new name is a new show, or new character (which also happens a lot, from what I gather).

So, to answer your question, I have no idea. But from what I can tell, MTV counts for at least as much in my sister-in-law's life as her actual life. Seriously. I've seen her crying over breaking up with her boyfriend, and she was less sad than the time she was crying over what turned out to be a break-up in a show.

Re:

[lpangelrob]

Well, those really bad reality shows have made a good mint - they're good for pitching to the 18-25 female market segment, and have profited (via advertising revenue) handsomely, I'm sure. I think stuff like "Viva La Bam" is for the 18-25 braindead male market segment.

There's no one out there that advertises to the 18-25 intelligent male segment. In terms of real, live, people-watching-TV-numbers, it just doesn't exist.

Some 18-25 intelligent females are all about Laguna Beach. The same reason the 26-40 fema

Re:

[The One and Only]

There's no one out there that advertises to the 18-25 intelligent male segment. In terms of real, live, people-watching-TV-numbers, it just doesn't exist.

Of course not--intelligent people between the ages of 18 and 25 don't watch television. Hell, even stupid people from the ages of 18 and 25 have turned to the internet half the time. Where do you think YouTube comments come from?

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[Wm_K]

I think you're indeed too old. MTV != Hip With The Youngsters either nowadays. So in that respect Microsoft, for which you observation is right, would be an ideal partner. Although I don't believe Realnetworks has the coolness factor MTV would be looking for.

Mac vs. PC

[MightyMartian]

Despite all of that, the recent advertising campaign of "Mac vs the PC", where the Mac is a hip young dude and the Windows PC is the stuffy guy in the shirt and tie does have a spark of truth in it.

I think they've got the characterizations completely wrong. The Mac Guy should be some infeminite clothing designer type who grabs his crotch a lot and brags about the size of his penis, while PC Guy should be a fiery, butchy lesbian dominatrix who chases Mac Guy around demanding "Slow down, girly-boy, I want to insert Office 2008 into ya!"

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[ihatewinXP]

That is a youtube video waiting to happen. Anyone got a few hundred million in venture capitol for that?

I bet I could get more views that Urge ever had users.....

-Doc

Re:

[GaryPatterson]

Look at the cool places where all the kids "hang out" on the Internet these days - iTunes, Facebook, YouTube, MySpace - and nowhere will you see Microsoft mentioned. When all said and done, Microsoft just isn't cool.

You're spot on there, and the final proof of this has been delivered by Microsoft themselves.

Look at the Zune (if you can). Look at the box, the device and then try to find a Microsoft logo.

You won't, because there isn't one. Microsoft know that their own branding would lessen the Zune's appeal,

From Wikipedia

[zlogic]

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urge)

Urge may refer to:
        * urge, a strong desire
                    o Sucking urge

Har har

[cromar]

They say opposites attract.

The negation is true as well!

Corporate insanity

[iamacat]

Yet another sign that today's huge companies are not delivering on any front - customer satisfaction, efficient use of resources, maximizing return to shareholders. Instead of the promised capitalist competition and efficiency, we are seeing economy locked down by companies that survive only based on buying and killing promising startups, bribing senators to pass laws that selectively benefit their business (like draconian patent system) and a "rich white boys" club that doesn't welcome any newcomers.

Under

Awesome!

[Hawthorne01]

Now when a music video comes on MTV, it'll be even easier to jump online and download the song that was just played.

That is, if MTV ever showed music videos anymore...

If MTV had 1/2 a clue, they'd convince their corporate masters at Viacom to drop the suit against YouTube, team up with YouTube as their music video section, make sure that every music video on YouTube had a link on it to an MTV online store selling DRM-Free MP'3, and then split the profits with Google. Anything else is just playing catchup with Apple. Using music videos driving music sales was their business model in the 80's, and it can be once again if they move fast enough, and any online music store that doesn't take the iPod into account is doomed to failure before it even launches.

Re:

[mcdermd]

If I had mod points, I'd be tagging this insightful. That would be a gnarly idea and one that may hook me into buying some DRM-Free 1980's tracks from them.

Re:

[The One and Only]

Actually, a lot of labels are putting music videos on YouTube as partners already. They wouldn't be any more likely to do it through MTV than they already are.

MTV and music?

[joeytmann]

Yeah maybe 15 years ago when they still played videos.

Memo to MSFT: avoid the consumer market. You suck.

[Anonymous Meoward]

The whole Urge debacle is a product of a marketing effort that was in a desperate hurry to play catch-up. It was doomed from the start.

On the surface, a partnership with MTV sounds like it would work, but nobody at MS bothered to do any decent market research. Does anyone out there regard MTV as hip and trendy, especially for music? (We are talking about a channel that had "we don't play music" as its tagline until only recently.)

If MSFT's management team is staying in place, it should diminsh its presen

RealNetworks? Are you F#&@$ing kidding me?

[TexMachina]

MTV is teaming up with RealNetworks? Why would they team up with the one streaming video standard that is hated by EVERYONE? Viacom's board must have nobody on it that even has a the slightest clue about the Internet.

I can picture it now. A room filled to bursting with fools telling each other how they have to go to their children for anything Internet related and than laugh like it's cute. When are these aging Baby Boomers going to realize that pleeing ignorance of the Internet is like saying you don't k

Query

[thatskinnyguy]

Does that mean that in the interim, we might actually get a REDUCTION in the size of the WMP11 download?! As an admin, that would just be a godsent.

partner with MSFT, help them build presence, lose

[Locutus]

it has happened over and over and over and over. There is nothing but short term cash to be obtained from a partnership with Microsoft since any real growth from that partnership will result in Microsoft taking the market one way or another. The business clowns who keep telling their investors that a Microsoft deal is a good thing are just fooling them to go along so that they can cash out with the short term profits or they are just ignorant of history.

The Zune-scape Microsoft is attempting to create for i

This makes me confident

[rastoboy29]

It's stuff like this that makes me trust my judgement about these big companies. It sounded like a miserable idea from the start, and I couldn't see how it could possibly, ever, succeed.

My friends think I'm arrogant when I presume to judge big, rich corporations. But then stuff like this happens, and I'm reminded that ultimately, it's one or two guys who make decisions in these companies, and they are mortals just like me.

Now if they really applied the "wisdom of the masses", their own employees

Bad pattern of behavior...

[caywen]

Apple: iTunes? Still there. Microsoft: MSN Music? Bail. Urge? Bail. PlaysForSure? Bail. Zune? Gotta wonder...

How about iRiver's Clix?

[RiffRafff]

Interesting. I wonder how this will affect iRiver's Clix player, that was developed with MS and MTV.

'Course, on the other hand, we told iRiver they were making a mistake by moving away from (more or less) open mp3 and ogg players. Maybe they'll see the light, now...especially with DRM seemingly being abandoned more and more.