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Motley Fool Says RIAA Hitting a Brick Wall 228

NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "The Motley Fool business site says that the RIAA's litigation campaign is in the end game. Monday it reported that 'the music industry's lawsuit crusade against defenseless college students and housewives appears to have hit the skids,' predicting that the RIAA's tactics are 'all about to change.' Today the Fool confirms that 'the change is happening in Internet time, which is somewhere between "instantly" and "yesterday,"' noting that the RIAA's abandonment of its 'making available' theory shows that the end is near. And this is before the RIAA faces its first jury trial, set to begin Oct. 2 in Duluth."
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Motley Fool Says RIAA Hitting a Brick Wall

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  • Duluth in the house!!!
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Duluth in the house!!!
      Yep. Can you imagine Cary Sherman, white shoes and all, walking into that courtroom? I don't think so.
      • By the way, this [blogspot.com] is Cary Sherman, who is on the plaintiffs' so called witness list. Watch his performances on CNN and CBS and tell me what kind of witness you think he'd make.
  • what's the conversion rate between internet time and the SI unit for time, the second?
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Its 1itu/0s where itu is an internet time unit, and s is SI seconds.

      Go ahead, convert that for me will ya?
    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Demiansmark ( 927787 )
      seconds / 12 parsecs = internet time that's how fast the Millennium Falcon is!
    • by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 28, 2007 @09:23AM (#20781699)
      Well that's a tricky question.

      Internet time fluctuates with the clogging of the tubes, which we all know the internet is made of, and how many libraries of congress worth of emo-ranting the so-called "blogosphere" is putting out per forthnight.
      So basically you divide your local time by zero and OH SHI-
    • I think we should use the time it took to migrate from IPV4 to IPV6 as the unit of internet time.
      The basic unit is calculated as:-
                          now - 1994 + 2 earth years
      and known as an RSN.

      This unit is unfeasibly large for normal usage so I would propose the
      perhapsSec (1/100000th of an RSN) being approximately the time taken
      to read a Slashdot article when you are supposed to be doing something else.

       
  • by Maximum Prophet ( 716608 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @09:01AM (#20781507)
    Why did the RIAA target people who could defend themselves? i.e. the inocent.

    Couldn't they have found a few people who were guilty, guilty, guilty and taken them all the way, and nailed them to a tree? Wouldn't it have been a better strategy to just drop any suit if the defendent was in the least bit sympathetic?
    • Scare tactic (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Necreia ( 954727 )
      Scare tactic.

      The idea is "If they will sue a grandmother without a computer AND is blind... what the hell would they do to ME??"
      • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @09:13AM (#20781611)
        Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • Re:Scare tactic (Score:5, Interesting)

          by NewYorkCountryLawyer ( 912032 ) * <ray@NOsPAm.beckermanlegal.com> on Friday September 28, 2007 @09:32AM (#20781791) Homepage Journal

          I think the real issue here is the RIAA's inability to see that the whole idea is a bad business move.
          I agree. When an investment site like Motley Fool gets hold of it, that should tell the shareholders something. Also, NPR's business show, "Marketplace", did an excellent 3- part series [blogspot.com] last week on the wrongheadedness of the RIAA's litigation campaign, and of alternative business models it should be exploring instead.
          • by apt142 ( 574425 )
            Those are good segments. NPR does a good job as usual of bringing everything that we've been keeping up with on slashdot and putting it into short segments that are easy for the average Joe to listen to. Highly recommended links for the non-geeky to get up to date on this.

            Oh, and the parent poster makes a guest appearance or two on there as well.
    • That makes sense to me. Granted, you can't count on the RIAA to do what makes sense.

      I picture a bunch of RIAA executives in some bland conference room, and one of them's saying, "Yeah! When those piratical bitches see that we'll even throw the motherfuckin' book at their grandma they'll get scared and stop stealing music. Booyah!"

      I guess it all depends. Do you want people to think you're in the right, or do you want them to be irrationally scared of you? It's pretty clear they decided to err on the sid
    • by rde ( 17364 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @09:12AM (#20781607)
      Why did the RIAA target people who could defend themselves? i.e. the inocent
      I dunno... cos they're idiots?

      Actually, that's probably being slightly unfair to the RIAA (something that's quite hard to do). As the article pointed out, it's not enough to prove that people were making files available; they had to prove that the files were actually given away. They could, I suppose, download some of those files themselves, but that raises a few intriguing questions of its own; if the RIAA - which presumably acts on behalf of the Record Label who owns the copyright - downloads a song, does this constitute illegal sharing? After all, you're only giving it to its legal owner.
      And if they get a third party to download that song, does that third party become complicit in the crime for downloading a song illegally?

      Obviously IANAL or I'd know the answer to these questions.
      • by debrain ( 29228 )
        Presumably the recording industry labels give the RIAA explicit or implicit authority to copy certain works for the purpose of combating piracy. This authority ought to extend to agents (employees, third party contractors, etc.) of the RIAA. The label ought not to be able to sue the RIAA because the RIAA did what the label asked of them.

        On the other hand, if the RIAA acted outside its authority by doing something other than what a label asked of them, and caused harm to that label's goodwill, then that labe
      • by guruevi ( 827432 )
        Hey, don't talk like that about idiots. They're usually much nicer than RIAA lawyers.
    • by dattaway ( 3088 )
      My guess is someone hacked the database containing all the IP addresses and "evidence" replacing it with random numbers. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened and at least that is what these lawsuits seem like!
    • Why did the RIAA target people who could defend themselves? i.e. the inocent. Couldn't they have found a few people who were guilty, guilty, guilty and taken them all the way, and nailed them to a tree? Wouldn't it have been a better strategy to just drop any suit if the defendent was in the least bit sympathetic?
      The RIAA's "investigation" is so unscientific, poorly conceived, and inept, that I would say it is calculated to catch anybody BUT large scale copyright infringers.
      • It would seem that not only is the RIAA's evidence in this case pathetic they are also trying to pursue their discredited and recently abandoned "Making Available" charge. This is because they have no evidence that the songs they allege the defendant was sharing were ever downloaded by anyone other than the RIAA--who are presumably authorized downloaders and not illegal downloaders.
    • Why did the RIAA target people who could defend themselves? i.e. the inocent.

      Couldn't they have found a few people who were guilty, guilty, guilty and taken them all the way, and nailed them to a tree? Wouldn't it have been a better strategy to just drop any suit if the defendent was in the least bit sympathetic?

      The MAFIAA only understands the language of power. There is the dominator and the dominated, the subjugator and the subjugated. Such qualities as sympathy and mercy are alien to their minds, unfathomable. This very blindness is their chief weakness; it should be exploited.

    • by Svartalf ( 2997 )
      Because, as the Fool pointed out... Their making available theory (which went the way of the Dodo recently...) made quite a few people guilty as a cat caught in a goldfish bowl. The problem is, it was a bad theory and they were working of the shock and awe play in litigation, hoping and praying people didn't know their rights and would settle and it'd have the desired effect on their members' control on the market.

      Problem is, it didn't work- for either the litgation/settlement or the control of the market
  • by dada21 ( 163177 ) <adam.dada@gmail.com> on Friday September 28, 2007 @09:03AM (#20781533) Homepage Journal
    ...to enhance that brick wall? I'm thinking maybe some sharp aluminum spikes on the face of it, and possibly a webcam or two so we can watch the violence via YouTube.
    • I was kind of hoping they'd hit the wall hard enough for it to fall down and bury them in the rubble... but that's just me.

    • Dibs on the copyright of the movies!

      Hey, why're you looking at me like that? Hey, the violence is to be in the movies! IN THE MOV... AUGH!
  • Perhaps the people who were bludgeoned into settling with the RIAA will bind together in a class action counter suit to recover what the protection money they paid.
    • I believe you are right. If they were pressured into settling via what now looks like illegal or objectionable methods, I think they have a right for class action. IANAL, but should they be found guilty of collusion and other bespoke illegal business practices, the protection money they extorted from people should constitute reasonable cause for compensation.
  • Way to go RIAA (Score:5, Insightful)

    by suv4x4 ( 956391 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @09:10AM (#20781587)
    Before RIAA did anything about it, we all doubted what we're doing with music torrents is illegal and may get us in trouble.

    Now, RIAA, after many years and millions of USD working on the issue, confirmed it's in fact perfectly safe for us to carry on.

    Thank you, RIAA!
    • Re:Way to go RIAA (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 28, 2007 @10:03AM (#20782345)
      I'm not thanking them.

      I have friends in bands, with CDs, none of who would be caught dead with an RIAA label contract. The biggest fools are those foolish enough to sign with a major label. See Courtney Love Does The Math [salon.com], among other articles, none of which paint a very rosy picture of the monsters who run the labels.

      These guys, like every other artist, WANT their music to be heard. They will be more than happy [kuro5hin.org] to let you serve MP3s from eDonkey or Kazaa. P2P and internet radio are all the indies have.

      Meanwhile, the RIAA lies about Piracy [kuro5hin.org], when in fact if you want far better quality copies of each and every top 40 song there is, all you have to do is tune your radio to a top-40 station, plug it into your computer and sample it [kuro5hin.org] for a couple of hours, then spend 10 minutes editing. Far easier and less time consuming even than iTunes, with better quality rips! But the RIAA labels control what goes on the radio; they can keep indies off. What they can't control is internet radio, which they have effectively killed, and P2P, which they are trying desperately to kill.

      At the risk of repeating myself (better than not getting the point through), this is about crushing the cartel's independant competetion, not about "piracy". Yes, P2P costs them sales - but not because you won't buy that Britney Spears CD after downloading all the songs. It's because after you buy those four indie CDs by that band you found on P2P or internet radio for five bucks apiece [kuro5hin.org], you no longer have the twenty to buy Britney's drek. If you like it, you'll buy it, and only a fool or a damned thief would believe otherwise.

      -mcgrew [slashdot.org]
      • by suv4x4 ( 956391 )
        What you're witnessing with those still signing with the major labels, is inertia from a time not so long ago when this was the only possible way to fund studio recording sessions, promotion, concerts and so on.

        Can't blame them, times have changed fast. And in fact we're only at the beginning of it.

        However, back to reality:

        "These guys, like every other artist, WANT their music to be heard. They will be more than happy to let you serve MP3s from eDonkey or Kazaa. P2P and internet radio are all the indies hav
        • by fwarren ( 579763 )
          Question is: why would I, average pop-music fan (for example), care to download some indie's unpopular music? Popular is cool, and labels still have the power to force "coolness" down teenagers' throats through some channels.

          Answer: MySpace and YouTube

          If Mr. WHY CANT YOU LEAVE BRITTANY ALONE can be discovered. How long do you think it will be till someone is really discovered via MySpace or YouTube? Or whatever cool website the teens jump on next?

  • Unlikely (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Zelocka ( 1152505 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @09:11AM (#20781595)
    The legal team they have may be moving away and pretty much trying to give up the strategy, but there is no way the record company business management is going to drop it. They have too much of a since of entitlement over making unlimited amounts of money off the same music forever.

    It's much more likely you will see the experienced members of the legal team quietly move out to other jobs and new inexperienced members will come in and do the same failed strategy as before.

    If it was going to end, we would have seen some level of common since out of the RIAA by now either dropping music prices drastically and providing consistent DRM free music. Drastic price reduction is the only way they are going to cut piracy and that is something they will never do. They are spoiled with years of charging insane amounts of money for something that typically costs them nothing or next to nothing. They are not going to change there thinking until they lose most of the new music being recorded to other venues.
  • Paradigm Shift (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Puff of Logic ( 895805 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @09:11AM (#20781603)
    While the change (or absence) of the RIAA's boilerplate argument is certainly notable, I'd suggest that a far more weighty indication of their losing position is Amazon's new DRM-free music service. The pace of the publishers' relatively tentative movement into DRM-free distribution (i.e. one in which the customer is shown a reasonable amount of trust and respect) seems to stem from a strange combination of lingering distrust and a desire to save face on the part of the record execs. Hopefully we'll see a rather more enthusiastic embracing of DRM-free digital distribution as time goes on.

    That said, many thanks to the folks who have been fighting the good fight against the RIAA and their attack dogs. There's no doubt in my mind that we wouldn't been seeing Amazonmp3 or iTunes Plus without their efforts.

    cheers.
  • Precedent (Score:5, Funny)

    by sexybomber ( 740588 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @09:14AM (#20781617)
    So is the 2 October jury trial going to be a one-time thing, or will it set some sort of precedent? I mean, once one case goes to jury trial, do all subsequent cases also have to be heard by a jury?

    After all, all these cases are pretty much identical:

    RIAA: ZOMG PIRACY! YOU GETTIN' SUED, FOO!
    Plaintiff: Don't sue! Here's some money to make you go away.
    RIAA: Okay.

    (or)

    RIAA: ZOMG PIRACY! YOU GETTIN' SUED, FOO!
    Plaintiff: What? Fsck that! We're going to court!
    Judge: Court is now in session.
    RIAA: We're going to drop the case, because our scare tactics have no legal merit.
    • Re:Precedent (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Aladrin ( 926209 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @09:52AM (#20782129)
      IANAL.

      No, they don't 'have' to be heard by jury, but the judge will take it into consideration that another case did.

      And there's been a couple cases later that don't fit your 2 patterns:

      RIAA: ZOMG PIRACY! YOU GETTIN' SUED, FOO!
      Plaintiff: What? Fsck that! We're going to court!
      Judge: Court is now in session.
      Judge: I'm dropping the case, because your scare tactics have no legal merit. You'll also pay the defendent and their lawyer a lot of money.
  • More Meat (Score:4, Interesting)

    by phoenixwade ( 997892 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @09:15AM (#20781623)
    the RIAA still has some wind left in it's sails, but it's certainly winding down.

    The Jury trial next week is going to be another of those fun trips through surreal litigation land, I bet. I expect a lot of time spent on who actually owns the copyrights to the songs (which, Although I haven't read any reference to it yet, means the RIAA lawyers will have to identify the the song, AND but the actual copyright holder for the specific recording or performance itself. That should layer a new level of complexity.. Imagine the RIAA identifying some tune that is covered by a few bands:
      first; prove it was an audio file and was copyrighted material.
      Next; Identify the specific performance, because copyright extends to the artist performing, not just the composer/writer.
      Then; you get to establish chain of copyright ownership through the various library transfers and company mergers through the years.
      Finally; convince a jury that all the things you assert along those items are true.

        I point this out, because I see a lot of evidence concerning screen shots, and such, but don't actually see where actuall files are used as evidence, only lists of files and logs. I'm sure, since forensics on Hard drives have occured, that there have been instances of found files that are identified... But that seems pretty rare.

    I'm still trying to decide if I am hoping that the chain of ownership is broken or not. If it's broken, there is a precedent for dismissal of a lot of cases, and additional reasons to demand a jury trial that it seems unlikely the RIAA can win (whether the defendant is actually guilty or not). On the other hand, if they can establish copyright ownership, then there is a case for misuse of copyright. My understanding is that "misuse or copyright" voids the copyright. This is all pure speculation, of course, but it doesn't seem like it would take more than one case where copyrights were removed to halt virtually every case out there, since such a judgment would quite literally turn the industry on it's ear overnight.

    I believe that the industry is going to (has, though some companys don't seem to understand that yet) change. I supposed, in a twisted way, we should thank the RIAA, ultimately, their actions have changed the landscape faster than it would have otherwise, I think.
    • And just then watch someone rush into the courtroom claiming that the tune is his and this is all just some kind of "cover version", as is usual today.

      I bet by the time the trial actually gets to the question of whether something was distributed, nobody cares anymore because the RIAA followed the path of SCO.
  • by mpapet ( 761907 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @09:18AM (#20781645) Homepage
    They are moving onto another, probably more sophisticated consumer terror campaign.

    What infuriates me is the YEARS have they been able to get away with abusing the judicial system. Could NewYorkCountryLawyer abuse the judicial system, much less a man off the street so much with no consequences whatsoever?

    With the sodomized condition of the Federal Attorney Generals Office (200+ political officials have the capacity to meddle in their affairs) and the campaign contributions flowing, there's no consequences awaiting any of the media conglomerates.

    This is a perfect example of the powerful working with wanton disregard of the rule of law. Sadly, too few participate in our political system, so the abuse continues.
     
  • by astrashe ( 7452 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @09:19AM (#20781655) Journal
    The Motley Fool points out that most people are honest, and want to pay for their music, so long as they can get what they want.

    I think that's mostly true, but that it's far less true than it would have been if the industry had pursued different polices over the past several years.

    There's a whole generation out there now that's grown up with piracy, and that's totally comfortable with it. Because this fight has polarized people so much, it's pushed a lot of people into the pro-piracy side who wouldn't have been there otherwise.

    • by Mongoose Disciple ( 722373 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @09:26AM (#20781739)
      That's a really interesting point. I wonder if we'll be talking about this era of record company business in fifty years the same way people say that the alcohol prohibition era in the U.S. gave organized crime its first big growth.
      • Hopefully in 50 years no one will know what a record company is. But I think we will be talking about how democracy was nearly lost to corporations at the turn of the century, but the threat of armed rebellion forced legal change over the heads of lobbyists and crooked politicians.
    • by david_thornley ( 598059 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @09:50AM (#20782101)

      Yup. Why would somebody pay for music when they can get it for free?

      • They could be paying for a better copy, but in fact the pirate copies are better. (No DRM, for starters.)
      • They could be paying because it's the right thing to do, but the prosecutions are firmly establishing the labels as the bad guys, and it's really hard to sell morality when you're running a campaign of indiscriminate terror.
      • They could be paying because they're scared of the RIAA, but the RIAA's tactics are increasingly seen as ineffective.
      • They could be paying to support the artists, but I suspect increasing numbers of people are aware of how much money the artists actually see from the CDs.
      • They aren't going to be swayed by annoying ham-handed messages that try to make law-abiding customers feel like criminals, not in a culture where Reefer Madness became something of a cult hit.

      The RIAA seems to be meticulously removing any reason anybody would have for buying their stuff. It's worse than watching the business practices of Major League Baseball. It's fascinating, much like a ship having a disagreement with an iceberg.

      (Yes, all my music has been acquired legally. Why do you ask?)

      • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @11:53AM (#20784191)
        Your first point is also your strongest: The copy offers higher value than the original. That's actually the cardinal sin they make.

        Usually, when you buy an original product instead of the fake, you have some benefits. You have bought higher quality. Well, at least it's likely that you did. You get support, you get the option for replacements if it breaks, the manufacturer might even throw a few more service goodies at you, you get access to further options for free or little money, in general, there's an additional value in it for you, the valued customer of the original part instead of some knockoff.

        With content it's exactly reversed. You do not get "more" for buying the original, you get less. You get limitations due to DRM, you get mandatory previews and FBI warnings on movies, you have to keep the CD in the drive with games and with some software it gets really bizarre with dongles (which invariably will break something else), or copy protection drivers that cripple your machine in a way or another.

        The actual problem with any kind of copy protection is that it devaluates the product, compared to the illegal copy. The value of the copy is higher. I know people who do buy the game, then get the rip to play it.

        I wonder how long they will keep up buying it. That step does not give them anything tangible, actually...
      • I consider myself a standard music consuming guy. Nothing out of the ordinary. The reason I download some albums or songs from the Internet (the way it is illegal in the USA) is because either

        a) I want to listen to one specific song (for example, just yesterday I remembered a pop song I wanted to play in the guitar, but I do not have it... so I go to emule). To handle this problem, artists must provide a way to get "immediate availability" and cheap. I used to get all those kind of songs via allfomp3 (and
      • They could be paying because it is easier. This is a big one. Getting music from most infringing sources is always hit and miss to a degree. You don't know what is available, you don't know how good it sounds, you don't know how fast the transfer will be, you don't know that it will be what was promised. I mean suppose you get on a P2P network, find what you want, but there's only one source. Turns out the guy is on a modem and it takes 2 hours to fully get the file. Then, it turns out the idiot mislabeled
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by ProteusQ ( 665382 )

      it's pushed a lot of people into the pro-piracy side who wouldn't have been there otherwise

      I'm one of them. Politically, I lean to the right on most issues. On copyright-related issues, my views have become left-wing, even though my views have not essentially changed in the last fifteen years. But certain corporations, backed by pro-business and pro-IP Republicans and Democrats, have decided that they own you once you buy one of their products. Oh yes, and they own what they own forever. How else c

    • Wish I could mod you 6. I'd add that 'comfortable' also means 'knows how to use', and by extension means 'not ready to change'.

      Many of my (middle-aged) friends download songs and films illegally, not because they cannot pay, (some of them are lawyers!), or even do not want to. It's just what they are used to doing. My kids buy - yes, for cash - CDs. But they tell me it's easier to download a torrent than to rip the CD to their computer / iPod. Having struggled for ages with iTunes for my kids iPods, an
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by bzipitidoo ( 647217 )

        Even more than that. It's good to have everyone keeping in mind that our legal system isn't perfect, and be willing to redress matters either by changing the laws, or by a willingness to disobey, rather than being blindly obedient. Also helps people to see that our legal system is being warped by money politics, and perhaps be motivated to do something about it such as committing "piracy". Call it democracy training. The RIAA has done that much. Sort of like the role of King John of England in the crea

    • by Frosty Piss ( 770223 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @10:11AM (#20782487)

      There's a whole generation out there now that's grown up with piracy, and that's totally comfortable with it. Because this fight has polarized people so much, it's pushed a lot of people into the pro-piracy side who wouldn't have been there otherwise.

      Actually, the Record Industry had the same opinion of cassette tapes, it's just that they couldn't track the copying as you can with Interweb p2p. But "back in the day" there where "public service" campaigns against cassettes, and they tried many times to get laws and taxes passed on cassettes as well.

      Wait. I'm sorry, most of you don't know what cassettes tapes are... Here's a linky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Cassette [wikipedia.org]

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by kilgortrout ( 674919 )
      I don't see any evidence that people inherently understand and want to respect copyrights. To a certain extent, copyright law is generally out of step with what most people feel is right, i.e. most people feel they have the right, or at least should have the right, to copy their music and share it with their friends. This has only become an issue when technology gave people the power to share their music with millions of online friends. Copyright laws have only been tolerated in the past because the routine
      • don't see any evidence that people inherently understand and want to respect copyrights. To a certain extent, copyright law is generally out of step with what most people feel is right, i.e. most people feel they have the right, or at least should have the right, to copy their music and share it with their friends. This has only become an issue when technology gave people the power to share their music with millions of online friends. Copyright laws have only been tolerated in the past because the routine p

    • You make an excellent point. This all could have been avoided in the beginning if they had applied all the ingenuity they have used to sue people in novel ways to deliver music to the people with more, not less, value added.

    • The whole music business changed, and so did the customers.

      Look back about 30 years (kids, ask your parents). You had a few bands (well, few compared to today), some were good, some were crap, some really shined. They created music, for years. They had a fanbase. Fans that went through their teenage years with their idols. Take the Beatles (ok, a very one-of-a-kind example, but still), you could be a Beatles fan from the moment you bought your first record as an aspiring teenager to the moment you finally s
  • by ari_j ( 90255 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @09:29AM (#20781763)
    I would love to sit in the courtroom during jury selection on these cases. "Ladies and gentlemen, please raise your hands if you have ever illegally downloaded an mp3." could keep the court busy for months trying to find enough jurors to go forward.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      That's probably the last thing anyone would want, as eventually you'd end up with a jury full of people who have probably never used the internet in their lives, and would even less have an idea of the ease involved in illegally downloading MP3s. These people would buy the spiel of the RIAA that MP3 piracy is closely linked to funding terrorism, paedophilia and the clubbing of baby seals and end up giving some poor bastard the death sentence for downloading a Celine Dion CD.

      (Guys, no jokes about how a dea
      • Hmm... wouldn't punishing him for listening to Celine Dion violate the 5th amendment (double jeopardy clause)? In any case he's already punished enough.

        On a more serious note, you're right. The last thing you'd want in that jury is people who haven't seen the internet from the inside and just bought what faux news and other scaremongers told them, that the internet is nothing but the exchange tool for pedophiles and terrorists, and that besides illegal music, the only thing you get in there is bomb building
  • by PhysicsPhil ( 880677 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @09:38AM (#20781863)
    I am a big fan of the Motley Fool website, but these guys are an "investment website", which really means they're simultaneous trying to attract readers to entertain them and hopefully sell their various investment newsletters. Generally I think they have a fair bit of credibility, focusing on things like investing over a decade-long time horizon, not piling into the "next big thing" and watching things like mutual fund expenses.

    That being said, I'm not sure why we particularly care about this particular article, other than the fact that it parrots the party line here at Slashdot. These guys aren't lawyers, and don't spend a lot of time examining the recording industry. In fact, over the 7 years that I've been reading their articles, this is the *only* one I can recall that discusses the music industry at all. It strikes me very much as an op-ed piece rather than a serious legal or business study of an industry, and I don't give it any more credibility than some guy ranting on his blog.

    To be sure, the RIAA has suffered legal defeats and setbacks, but just because a financial news and opinion site happens to pick up on it does not mean that the industry is going to collapse, nor does it mean that those who are being/will be sued should stop worrying.
    • I am a big fan of the Motley Fool website, but these guys are an "investment website", which really means they're simultaneous trying to attract readers to entertain them and hopefully sell their various investment newsletters. Generally I think they have a fair bit of credibility, focusing on things like investing over a decade-long time horizon, not piling into the "next big thing" and watching things like mutual fund expenses. That being said, I'm not sure why we particularly care about this particular article, other than the fact that it parrots the party line here at Slashdot. These guys aren't lawyers, and don't spend a lot of time examining the recording industry. In fact, over the 7 years that I've been reading their articles, this is the *only* one I can recall that discusses the music industry at all. It strikes me very much as an op-ed piece rather than a serious legal or business study of an industry, and I don't give it any more credibility than some guy ranting on his blog. To be sure, the RIAA has suffered legal defeats and setbacks, but just because a financial news and opinion site happens to pick up on it does not mean that the industry is going to collapse, nor does it mean that those who are being/will be sued should stop worrying.


      Here's why I care.

      The fact that an investment web site like Motley Fool and a business program like "MarketPlace" (which just did a 3-part series last week [blogspot.com] on the record industry's grand mistake) take hold of the issue isn't necessarily of interest from a legal point of view or a scientific point of view, but it is of great interest to shareholders and would be shareholders.

      The impetus for dropping this campaign won't come from
      -the lawyers who have been the principal beneficiaries of this juggernaut,
      -techies,
      -the entrenched management who would never admit to their shareholders that they've been on a fool's errand for the past 4 1/2 years,
      -the RIAA which has been destroying the record companies, or
      -anyone else.

      It will come from shareholders when they come to realize they are being taken for a ride by a handful of morons who were too dumb to (a) realize the business opportunity the internet represented for them until it was too late, and/or (b) create a new business model that could harness the internet's energy.

      The investment community is coming to realize that the big 4 record companies stocks -- all referred to in the Motley Fools articles -- won't be worth a damn until the record companies leave the past, enter the present, and work to survive into the future.

      That's why the article means something.

      PS As a lawyer, I think the Motley Fool author's understanding of the legal issues was pretty good, certainly a lot better than that of the RIAA lawyers I've met.
    • There is no better source for this type of news.

      Financial analysis of an industry and the possible outcomes is what they do all the time. I'd trust them to get it right about the overall trends for the industry. The fact that this is getting publicity outside the tech sector is encouraging. If investors start dumping media stocks en masse you can bet their strategy will change instantly.
  • If you follow this legal saga at all, you know that the RIAA members have lately been fighting primarily to avoid paying the defendants' legal fees -- and losing. Instead of a quick and easy cash machine, the labels' lawsuit machine has become a costly public relations disaster, and it seems unlikely that any sane and responsible manager would order the madness to continue much longer.

    Somehow it's fitting that the RIAA is getting sucked dry by the laywers...
  • Until the fat lady sings ( and doesn't get sued in the process ).

    They may change tactics but i don't think they will ever abandon the war.
  • I'm forced to wonder, is the RIAA coming out ahead at the end of all of this? Did enough people settle that, despite all the garbage, they're still in the black? And, if they aren't (as I suspect is the case), why would the client-companies of the RIAA keep the RIAA legal staff employed? I know, were I in charge of a mega-media corporation and a team of lawyers screwed the pooch as badly as the RIAA legal team appears to have done so, I'd be handing them all their walking papers...
    • Re:I Wonder (Score:5, Informative)

      by NewYorkCountryLawyer ( 912032 ) * <ray@NOsPAm.beckermanlegal.com> on Friday September 28, 2007 @10:18AM (#20782605) Homepage Journal

      I'm forced to wonder, is the RIAA coming out ahead at the end of all of this? Did enough people settle that, despite all the garbage, they're still in the black? And, if they aren't (as I suspect is the case), why would the client-companies of the RIAA keep the RIAA legal staff employed? I know, were I in charge of a mega-media corporation and a team of lawyers screwed the pooch as badly as the RIAA legal team appears to have done so, I'd be handing them all their walking papers...
      I'm pretty sure they're losing a couple of million a year on the litigation campaign. They make money on settlements, lose money on default judgments, and lose a lot of money on any case where the defendant fights back. And as public awareness grows, more and more people are fighting back.

      As to the "walking papers", I imagine the shareholders are on the verge of doing that pretty soon.
    • Vinnie and Guido never really make money by breaking kneecaps, even with the local clinic's protection money kick backs. It's all about keeping the people in line - a cost of doing business, of you will. Just because they get caught falling down drunk with a couple of hookers is no reason to fire them. Unless they start missing kneecaps they're so sauced. Then you can either cut them loose, or figure out a way for them to do their jobs while falling-down drunk, or figure out how to keep them off the sauce d
    • You're looking at it wrong. It was never intended to be a business model. The record companies never thought they'd subsist on settlement money.

      The suefest was simple marketing. They wanted to discourage copyright infringement and thought fear of legal trouble would be effective. To some extent it worked. I know many people who refuse to download mp3s because they don't want to risk a lawsuit.
    • The RIAA isn't there to make money. If it loses money it will just get more money from the labels and the millions of dollars thrown at the RIAA is peanuts compared to what they spend on promotion. So long as the labels believe that the RIAA is providing a useful service for them... by deterring unauthorized copying... they have no incentive to pull the plug.
  • It was actually Harry Houdini (Erich Weisz) that was one of the first proponents of the "do it once and make profit forever" media visionaries.

    In the abstract, it make a lot of sense, and in its own way fair. Harry knew that age and injury would eventually destroy his ability to make money. This new "moving picture thing" was a way he could perfect his skill and make money showing people his tricks without the personal risks, expense, and the inevitable corruption of age.

    This made sense when distribution an
    • by Renraku ( 518261 )
      There is a such thing as a limit, even online. There's a finite amount of bandwidth available to every person, and a finite amount of storage space.

      It doesn't matter if there's 1 copy or 10 billion copies, as long as someone can copy/paste it and is well enough connected to get those copies out.

      Just like viruses, and life in general. As long as there are two humans, they can reproduce and multiply, then the children can multiply, so on and so fort. Just like in West Virginia.
  • My outlook (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Yold ( 473518 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @10:34AM (#20782849)
    As a Duluthian, I can't agree with the following.

    These people would buy the spiel of the RIAA that MP3 piracy is closely linked to funding terrorism, paedophilia and the clubbing of baby seals and end up giving some poor bastard the death sentence for downloading a Celine Dion CD.

    Duluth is a VERY liberal town, with a somewhat conservative outlook. In otherwords, you better DAMN well have a good case, to come into our backyard and sue some good-old-boys (ya sooper don't ya know). And frankly, as many slashdotters would agree, the RIAA often seeks excessive damages. BTW, civil cases are about proving real damages.

    Just cause its wayyy uppp north (ya know), don't go making asinine assumptions about what people will and won't buy. There are 3 universities in an 120,000 person area, and I'd generally consider people in the area to be fairly reasonable.

    BTW its speil not spiel
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Just because I feel like nit-picking: it's spiel, not speil. It's derived from the German word "Spiel", i.e. "play". It's used most often in the context of games - board games, football games, etc. Hence our use of spiel in the context of someone engaging in a routine where the rules are well-known and completely artificial, and where stuff is for entertainment only.
  • by Wesley Everest ( 446824 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @10:45AM (#20783025)
    A funny thing. When napster first came out, I downloaded a bunch of songs, which got me excited about music in general and several bands in particular. In the year before napster got shut down, I probably bought a dozen CDs. Then for quite a while I lost interest in music, or just played the music I had. Then I got broadband and an iPod and discovered eMule, and ended up buying another dozen or so CDs after a few years of not setting foot in a record store. The the RIAA started cracking down, and well, I just sort of lost interest in music again.

    What a bunch of morons.
  • It's About Time (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Luscious868 ( 679143 ) on Friday September 28, 2007 @11:11AM (#20783427)
    I always thought the "making available" claim was dubious at best. If I'm reading a book in a restaurant and I leave it there by mistake I can be sued by it's author because I've made the content available for someone to copy? That's absurd. That example is a vast oversimplification of the issue at hand but that's essentially what the RIAA was arguing and it's laughable.

    Copyright is exactly that, your right (or lake thereof) to make a copy of something. Making something available to be copied is not the same thing as actually making a copy. There's a very important and practical line there. If you were guilty of copyright infringement every time you made something available to be copied you'd better carry every book or copyrighted piece of paper with you at all times or you'd be infringing copyright by making that document available for someone else to copy when it's not in your immediate possession. You better not go to sleep either. You're evil college aged brother or sister might steal said book or document it and copy it while you sleep.

    You can argue all day long about the person's intent when they have music files on a P2P network but the intent to make something available for copying doesn't (yet) factor into the laws governing copyright infringement as many courts are interpreting them. The real question is how long will our laws stay that way? It's only a matter of time before intent becomes a crime. I bet the RIAA lawyer goons have already written the text of laws that factor in intent and are just waiting for a Senator and Congressman who owe them and have the ability to sneak it into the next copyright or patent "reform" act intended to "update" our laws so they "keep pace with the rapidly changing technological landscape" while "protecting" the rights of artists. That's always the kind of language used when politicians (corporations) want to further erode consumer rights.
    • "Making Available" was originally used by shoplifters to explain that it was the fault of the supermarket that they stole the goods. Id did not stand up then (1940's?) and sure as hell won't now in most countries, on account of this "prior art". In the USA, YMMV.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Luscious868 ( 679143 )

        "Making Available" was originally used by shoplifters to explain that it was the fault of the supermarket that they stole the goods. Id did not stand up then (1940's?) and sure as hell won't now in most countries, on account of this "prior art". In the USA, YMMV.

        Thank you for successfully arguing my point. "Making Available" is different than copying (or in your example stealing). Simply because a store made an item "available" to be taken doesn't mean the store was giving permission for someone who didn'

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