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Education Hardware

OLPC Launches Buy One, Give One Free Program 282

Tha_Big_Guy23 writes "For the first time, and for a limited period only, people in North America will be able to get their hands on the XO, MIT professor Nicholas Negroponte's rugged little laptop that's designed specifically for children. And for each cutting-edge XO purchased in the West, another will be given to a child in a developing country. For $399, customers can order a laptop for themselves; bundled into the price is the cost of delivering a second XO to a child a poor country."
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OLPC Launches Buy One, Give One Free Program

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  • Other options? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ScorpFromHell ( 837952 ) on Monday November 12, 2007 @09:52AM (#21322505) Homepage
    With so many other options for low cost linux based laptops coming up, how many would lap up the XOs? Yeah some geeks & some philanthropists ... the tech loving & God fearing maybe ... but will it sell like the Dells?
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by j-pimp ( 177072 )

      With so many other options for low cost linux based laptops coming up, how many would lap up the XOs? Yeah some geeks & some philanthropists ... the tech loving & God fearing maybe ... but will it sell like the Dells?

      I think their going for the philanthropist geeks. If they sell a thousand at this price they can move towards lowering the price.

      Do they say how much of the money is shipping to the third world country? I would think if they picked one Costal City for the initial recipients, it would be cheap to ship the laptops via ship and have a local volunteer or two distribute them to the children.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by magarity ( 164372 )
        Do they say how much of the money is shipping to the third world country?
        Since the price is $399 for 2 and the manufacturing costs are "about" $180 each, that leaves $20, or about 10%, for distribution and other miscellandy costs.
        I wonder if that's enough to cover the 'gratuities' to 3rd world customs officials who just want a little extra something for themselves no matter what it being transported.
        • Re:Other options? (Score:5, Informative)

          by AmaDaden ( 794446 ) on Monday November 12, 2007 @10:27AM (#21322897)
          Yeah that's about right. I just ordered one. Here are my numbers right from the confermation email. But I think the sipping might be for my laptop not the one being donated. It was calculated after I entered my address

          Payment Details Item Price: $399.00 USD
          Total Shipping: $24.95 USD
          Total: $423.95 USD
          Order Description: G1G1 program donation
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by CastrTroy ( 595695 )
          For that price, there has to be either some philanthropy involved, or just some geekiness in messing around with the machine. I got a laptop that is much better for about $CDN 450. If you just need a laptop, and don't care about giving to third world nations, or the geek appeal, there are many other better options. However, with that said, I think that this concept might sell quite a few laptops.
          • Your are quite correct. You can get for about $400 a much "suitable" laptop. Still, I will get myself one (and donate one) for the very reasons you stated. Philantropy (even tho I'm not rich nor I'm generous) and it looks like a cool toy and a functional one to boot. Separately, none of those reasons would compel me to participate in the program.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by semiotec ( 948062 )
      First, you make it sound like being a geek or philanthropist are bad things or deviant from normal behaviour.

      Second, are only the God-fearing allowed to help others? only tech-loving people should play with gadgets? You wouldn't bother helping others unless there was some strong incentive to do so? Your curiosity is only limited to that which you are familiar with? I don't wish to judge you from the few words you have typed in the comment, but the world-view presented within them seems to be extremely narro
      • No, I don't have anything against geeks or philanthropists ... I consider myself to be a bit of both.

        I run a group which implements Edubuntu and other FOSS at poorer schools in India for free. So, am naturally interested in XO & all its alternatives out there to better utilize the meager funds (so far zilch) we have.

        And I have a vested interested in the success of this buy one donate one concept as it will help groups like ours & many more.

        I only put up an honest query and not any rhetoric.
        • Like I said, I am sure you are a good person in your daily life.

          Nevertheless, your original comment suggest that you think that the "average Joes" are only charitable if they are God-fearing? That it takes some "special" people to do good for others?

          Would you be interested in the success of the OLPC project if it has absolutely zero bearing on your group?

          It is not the aim of OLPC to sell like Dells in developed countries, in case you haven't noticed already. Its hardware and software specifications are far
          • One doesn't have to be a geek to be tech loving ... and one doesn't have to be God fearing (/loving) to be a philanthropist.

            And I thought 'God fearing' actually means 'God loving'? English is not my native language neither is Christianity my religion, so I might have erred.

            And the reason why I wondered if it will sell like Dells is because I inherently want more XOs to sell. And it doesn't matter if my group benefits out of it, heck our group is not for personal benefits in the first place!

            And yeah
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by DrWho520 ( 655973 )
      Why God fearing? Where does that come from? I would hope that people today would give without "fearing" God. I mean, people do not need religion to teach them what is right, correct? That is what I hear, anyway. Comments like this, however, make me very much question that statement.
      By the way, people who give out of love for their fellow man are God loving. Those who are God fearing send money to the Christian Coalition and try to legislate everyone else's behavior.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        Actually the Bible frequently talks of the fear of God in a positive sense and being in no way opposed to God loving. A major theme of the book of Proverbs (and the Psalms for that matter) is that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.
    • I intend to buy one solely for the high res B&W screen. If they still sport that....I stopped paying attention because I thought they weren't planning to sell these to the public.

      And I'm someone who spends a lot of time in the countries where these will be distributed. I expect to be able to trade into one relatively cheap, but I'm also happy to support the cause.
    • Re:Other options? (Score:5, Informative)

      by mspohr ( 589790 ) on Monday November 12, 2007 @10:57AM (#21323259)
      I think you've missed the point of the OLPC. It's not about a 'low cost linux laptop'. It's a computer designed for group work (mesh network), rugged to take abuse, daylight viewable screen, and educational software.

      "It's an education project, not a laptop project." -- Nicholas Negroponte

      If you want a cheap laptop, buy the Asus or Dell for $400+. If you want an educational computer designed for kids, buy the OLPC.

    • Re:Other options? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by grumbel ( 592662 ) <grumbel+slashdot@gmail.com> on Monday November 12, 2007 @11:01AM (#21323303) Homepage
      My main reason for wanting a OLPC XO is that it can be used as eBook Reader, i.e. the screen can be rotated and the thing converted into a tablet, none of the other cheap laptops I have seen so far allow that, heck, even the non-cheap laptops don't allow that, only the really expensive ones. And all the special eBook reader are far more expensive then the OLPC XO. The only other device that seems to come close is the Nokia N770/N800/N810, but they are all rather small.

      When it comes to selling, we have to wait and see. Currently the OLPC isn't even sold by normal means, you can buy two for the price of one, but only when you are in the USA and only when you order it in the next two weeks or so, which kind of limits it to how many people can buy one.

      I'd love to buy one, but I guess I have to wait a little longer till its even available here in germany.
  • by blh ( 414027 )
    Just ordered one a few hours ago.

    Nice way to help a worthy cause and not a bad deal for a years t-mobile service.
    • by Aladrin ( 926209 )
      "a years t-mobile service."? I don't see where you got this.

      I also don't see where to buy one... I went to laptop.org, but can only find the 'donate money' area, not somewhere I can buy 2 to get one. (It occurs to me that this might make a good present for my niece.)
      • by tb3 ( 313150 ) on Monday November 12, 2007 @10:07AM (#21322661) Homepage
        Maybe you went to the wrong site, but it's quite obvious here. [laptopgiving.org] $399 for two laptops, one is given to a child in a developing nation. The cost of the second laptop is considered a charitable donation and is tax-deductible. The T-Mobile info is on that page, too.
        • by Daetrin ( 576516 )
          I see a description of the program, a link to "Find out more" about the T-mobile wireless, and a link to "Please review our terms and conditions," (which is incidentally missing the link to go with the "to review our privacy policy please click here link.")

          I don't see any link for actually placing an order though. I suppose i could try calling the number at the bottom during lunch though.

          • by Daetrin ( 576516 )
            I should have spent a little longer investigating the issue before posting. After examining the source i found a link to paypal using an gif from ebay as the image for the button. However ebay is blocked by websense, so the button isn't showing up at all. I could try to reconstruct the link myself since paypay itself doesn't seem to be blocked for some reason, but it looks like it involves some big ass encryption key, so it's probably easier just to wait for the filter to go down during lunch and order then
      • by LMacG ( 118321 )
        I had to reload the page (laptopgiving.org) several times before the pictures and links showed up.

        As for T-Mobile, they are giving one year of free Wi-Fi access, so you can use your XO, or any WiFi device, at Starbucks, Borders, several US airports, etc. It's not free mobile phone service.
  • Though I do not underestimate the level of need in the so called "poor" world, I wonder why the OLPC folks think everyone in America can afford this PC. We have poverty in America too, and people are living from hand to mouth.

    I will agree that what America has is what I could call "material prosperity". There appears to be infrastructure everywhere but people are hurting in the pockets. These days, the American dollar has also taken a hit, so everyday stuff is expensive.

    • From my (admittedly limited) understanding of economics, there will always be a poorer class and have-nots. That being said, why should we focus on ourselves and not give to others that have needs.

      I would rather give a computer to someone I don't know (and enable them to learn), than give nothing.
    • by 8tim8 ( 623968 ) on Monday November 12, 2007 @10:02AM (#21322609) Journal
      Though I do not underestimate the level of need in the so called "poor" world, I wonder why the OLPC folks think everyone in America can afford this PC.

      Um, is there a statement from the OLPC people where they say that everyone in NA can afford one? It seems to me that they only said that individuals in NA can buy one, if they want. There is no comment about the "material prosperity" of everyone on this continent.

      Now that I think about it, the title of your comment is "North America has poor folks too!" yet you only reference [the United States of] America. There are a couple of other countries on this continent, too, don't forget.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Yes, America does have poor people, but many of them will balk at the idea of having to crank their laptop to get it running.
    • by kebes ( 861706 ) on Monday November 12, 2007 @10:10AM (#21322695) Journal

      I wonder why the OLPC folks think everyone in America can afford this PC.
      OLPC is a non-profit who will sell large shipments of XO laptops to any educational customer requesting them. Nothing stops the US from putting in an order for a bunch of laptops for underprivileged children. In fact, apparently [wikipedia.org] Massachusetts and Maine are already involved.

      Yes, OLPC is focusing their efforts on third-world countries, but also the US education system is mostly ignoring OLPC. The "why" is fairly simple: it's not because US children do not deserve a good education, and not because they wouldn't benefit from computer access. But, the fact is that the US is structured such that OLPC may not be the "best fit." For instance many libraries in the US have computers in them, and many schools do also. It would appear that in the US the effort is being put into these kinds of educational resources. Whether or not that is the best way to spend US education dollars is of course up for debate.

      But it's not really fair to imply that OLPC is ignoring US education. As I said, educational institutes in the US are free to make a case for funding such projects. OLPC will gladly ship the units.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by nobodyman ( 90587 )

        But it's not really fair to imply that OLPC is ignoring US education. As I said, educational institutes in the US are free to make a case for funding such projects. OLPC will gladly ship the units.

        I disagree. Nicholas Negroponte in the past had flat refused to sell the computer to US schools. Only when it was looking like he wasn't going to get enough orders to begin mass -production did he start to *consider* it. Here's a snippet from a good Ars Technica article [arstechnica.com]:

        OLPC founder Nicholas Negroponte had prev

    • by Nursie ( 632944 ) on Monday November 12, 2007 @10:14AM (#21322741)
      US society already has high technology. Giving a poor kid an OLPC in North America may help him or her. Giving a poor kid an OLPC in someplace where they don't have computers available at the library down the street (which the kid never goes to because his parents and peers think libraries are for geeks and morons) will help that kid interface with the modern world and help bring up the whole country.

      Now, I'm not saying poor folks in developed countries brought it upon themselves, or are willfully poor, but I do think that there is greater room for improvement across populations as a whole in other places.
      • by laffer1 ( 701823 )
        There's an interesting point. Instead of giving every kid a laptop, why not setup a library for whole communities including laptops in these poor areas? Then everyone including children would benefit. It would be possible for older people to learn about the modern world too.

        The other advantage is that you might be able to help more communities with it.

        Even though I feel this way, I'd consider buying one of these if I had the money. I wish it was buy one get half. At $300, it's doable for me.
    • by magarity ( 164372 ) on Monday November 12, 2007 @10:33AM (#21322979)
      Though I do not underestimate the level of need in the so called "poor" world
      The 'poor' in America are ONLY poor in relative terms. In China, which has an up and coming boom economy, I saw people living in such abject poverty and squalor that I can't even imagine how crappy it must be in Saharan Africa where apparently people have it really rough. Panhandlers at the traffic lights here in the US have it easy compared to 95% of the 'working class' people I saw there. However, even the poorest Chinese was busting butt to better their circumstances and even the most ignorant understood that education for the children was the best way to better the entire family. How many of the poor in the US understand that vs how many understand how to wait for the next handout? Sorry, but I've worked too much with the poor in the US and become completely disillusioned with any romantic notions of how all they need is a little more 'help'. They need the help withdrawn so they'll have a little motivation.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by argmanah ( 616458 ) *

        However, even the poorest Chinese was busting butt to better their circumstances and even the most ignorant understood that education for the children was the best way to better the entire family.

        That's generally true, but part of the reason is that in Chinese culture, you are expected to take care of your parents to a much greater degree than we are expected to here in the U.S. While any decent parent would want their child to have better than what they themselves had, that part of the culture motivates the less decent ones as well.

  • More information... (Score:4, Informative)

    by kebes ( 861706 ) on Monday November 12, 2007 @10:01AM (#21322595) Journal
    For those interested, here's a link to the actual order page [laptopgiving.org].

    The two laptops will cost $399.00 USD, and shipping is $24.95 USD (for a total of $423.95 USD). Open to residents of US and Canada only. Paypal is the default payment option (credit cards are also accepted). Of that, $200 is considered a tax-deductible donation. Your contribution also gets you 1 year of free Wi-Fi [laptopgiving.org] access at T-Mobile hotspots [t-mobile.com].

    The website says that they will try to deliver the laptop before the holidays, but that initial supplies are limited (TFA says 40,000 units in this first month, with 20,000 ready before Christmas), so if you're keen to get one of these things, you should order sooner rather than later.

    I'm certainly curious to see how many orders get put in. If a large number of geeks buy these things as hacking toys, then they could very well become the best platform for a variety of tasks. For example, maybe this will finally be a viable e-book reader (portable, rugged, long battery life, display that can be used in ambient light, etc.). Should be interesting.
  • by sakdoctor ( 1087155 ) on Monday November 12, 2007 @10:10AM (#21322699) Homepage
    Can't I just buy one for myself and let the volume productions reduce the price for everyone?
    I bet if they tried the freemarket approach they could get the retail price down to, oh I don't know, maybe 100USD. They could name it "the $100 laptop"

    No? Oh ok, I'll just have to buy two Eee PCs for the same amount.
  • Considering I picked up two full-feature Acer laptops at Wally World [slickdeals.net] two Fridays ago for under $350 each.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      But the 'Wally World' laptops don't come with a nice warm inner glow of having helped lift some third world child out of information poverty (and you don't get $200 per tax deductable as a charitable contribution)
    • Plus, those laptops had Vista on them. I assume you've had to buy two licenses of XP as well to make them usable. That runs the price up to, what, $600 each?


    • I picked up a similar laptop around the back to school rush for about $CDN 450. It's a really great laptop. Came with 14.1 inch screen, and 512 MB of ram, but I think everything else was the same. Great little laptop. It was painfully slow with the preinstalled Vista, but I'm running Mandriva with CompizFusion and it works great. The only downside is the battery is only good for about 2-2.5 hours. But I mostly just use it at home one the couch, so really, it actually fits my needs very well.
  • $399 is pricey (Score:2, Offtopic)

    by brunes69 ( 86786 )
    Why would I pay $399 for a OLPC laptop when I can buy a NORMAL full featured laptop from CC for $299 on Black Friday or $400 any other day?
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by tomstdenis ( 446163 )
      Because you're supporting a cause?

      Using your logic, why would I donate $100 to the Red Cross when I could just as easily get a mickey of vodka and have a good time for less!!!

      • You're only paying $200 for it.
      • Yeah, but then you don't really want the laptop, then. The "free market" plan would be to sell the OLPCs at as much of a profit as they can as well as accepting donations and use those profits (and the economies of scale from the increased volume) to fund their 3rd world profit.

        Instead, they seem to have gone the PBS, "Make a donation of X size and get a fabulous tote bag" except the tote bag in question is an expensive computer (compared to a cheaply manufactured cotton bag). The $400 hundred dollar lapt
    • by Thaelon ( 250687 )
      Because it's pretty badass. At the outset they didn't intend to break new LCD technological ground with the OLPC, but they ended up doing so to meet the requirements. Also, because it's a good cause? That, and you won't get trampled on black Friday obtaining one.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Etyenne ( 4915 )
      Because you want to do good (whether OLPC is doing good or not is your call), and because you want a piece of tech history.

      The XO basically revolutionize the low-end portable computer market. They where the first to talk about ultra low cost, ultra-portable, low-power computing, and as such kick-start the movement which gave us recently the Asus Eee and the Intel ClassMate. Without them, the market would have slowly converge toward cheaper and cheaper hardware, but I think we would still be a couple years
    • Actually it can be considered to be better than a eee PC which costs about the same (well $100 less). I would love to have a Solid state laptop (no fan!) and a high res monochrome screen (reading!), and low power (green!).

      Bad luck I'm in Scandinavia, may be you can buy one and send it to me?
    • I would not tie getting one laptop to sending one overseas. If they want money to further their mission then just focus on that and drop the gimmick. We do not need production of these devices being diverted to this country, let alone to geeks who need someway to feel good.

      There are hundreds of good charities to give money to where all the money goes to the cause. I haven't seen a guaranteee of that from OLPC. However I would be more than happy to buy the two OLPCs provided BOTH went to kids and that I
    • by Hatta ( 162192 )
      How much does the "normal" laptop weigh? How many moving parts does it have? How thick is the plastic casing? Is the keyboard sealed with silicone? What is the battery life? Can you read the screen in full daylight?
  • Id rather get one of those tiny little asus(?) sub-notebooks for that sort of price.

    • ...you're missing the point. "Why buy an Eee when I could get a normal, higher-powered 15" laptop for less?"

      I own an Asus Eee, and it's a near-perfect little sub-kilo device. But if I had a kid in the 3-8 age group, I'd pounce on this OLPC deal so fast my keyboard would smoke. For the same price as the Eee I can get something way more kid-friendly AND support some third-world future 1337 h4ckz0r?! I can't think of a more noble place for my nerd-donation to go. But my altruism only extends so far. I
  • Guaranteed? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by InvisblePinkUnicorn ( 1126837 ) on Monday November 12, 2007 @10:18AM (#21322791)
    Is it guaranteed that my purchase will be matched by the delivery to a child, or am I simply throwing my money into a huge black pit, in the hopes that the number of people who buy one in the US will be the same as those delivered to children, apart from their already-planned deliveries?
    • How could it be guaranteed?
      • By specifically channeling my money to a fund that is used only for this purpose, and unusable toward their previously-planned deliveries.
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by MidKnight ( 19766 )

          You mean by guaranteeing something like ...

          ... In connection with your payment of US$399 to OLPC Foundation, OLPC Foundation will provide you with one XO laptop, and a second XO laptop will be given by OLPC Foundation to a child in one of the least developed countries in the developing world....

          ... from the Terms and Conditions [laptopgiving.org] of the Give One Get One [laptopgiving.org] program.

  • I ordered one. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Falkkin ( 97268 ) on Monday November 12, 2007 @10:23AM (#21322859) Homepage
    The North American model sadly doesn't come with the hand-crank. It's not clear if those will be available for purchase later on, or if I can use (or mod) my cell-phone hand-crank to work with the XO laptop. Excited to try out the XO though, and I'm very happy to support this project.
  • by clickety6 ( 141178 ) on Monday November 12, 2007 @10:24AM (#21322863)
    With the worth of the US dollar dropping so rapidly, most Europeans could afford to buy a couple of these with the loose change in their pockets. $399 is about 3.99 Euro these days. Maybe a slight exaggeration there, but we're not so far off the 100 Euro laptop :-)

  • Anyone know if these laptops have flash support? Or if it can easily be added? (Probably easy to add, since it is linux.) Planning on getting one for my kid and it would be nice to know. :-)
    • One of the requirements of the software that ships with the OLPC is that it has to be 100% open source. As a result, they can't ship Flash. However, it's not that difficult to install Flash into Firefox yourself.
  • by fhmiv ( 740648 ) on Monday November 12, 2007 @10:52AM (#21323199) Homepage
    I'm buying one for my 3-year-old. I can see several advantages to this approach over other laptops. First, I can give her a rugged computer that actually works, something she will surely like as she sees her mom and I using our laptops all the time, and kids learn a lot by imitation. Second, I can continue teaching her about philanthropy - we bought one for her and one for someone else who could use one but can't afford it. Third, to counter the arguments about the US educational system ignoring the OLPC, education begins in the home.

    As a programmer, I look forward to seeing the software efforts that are built atop this platform. There's plenty of room for free educational software for kids and this looks like a good platform for it. Surely someone will port the platform stack to a standard Linux distro, and then any software you write for this, you can run on your PC you bought at Wal-Mart.

    Cheers, Frank

  • Does anyone know if the OLPC can be claimed as a charitable organization in Canada i.e. can you claim an exemption?
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by godawsgo ( 852260 )

      Conversion: $421.26 CAD = $433.95 USD
      Currency From: CAD
      Currency To: USD
      Exchange Rate: 1.03014
      From our friends at the Canadian Revenue Agency:

      "Generally, you cannot claim donations made to U.S. charities on your Canadian income tax."

      I'll take that 3 cents on the dollar though!

      (If you have US Income, you can use the donation to off-set that...)

  • (America in the geographical sense, of course...)

    I'd love to buy one. It looks great; not only would I find it useful as well as being a really cool toy, but I think this is a cause highly worth supporting. Alas, the offer is only valid for people in continental North America (plus island states of the USA). Since I live in the UK, I'm stuffed.

    Hopefully at some stage they'll run a European G1G1 programme.

    (Actually, maybe the G1G1 programme will show enough demand that some budding entrepeneur will ord

  • This may seem like a very silly question, and maybe the answer is obvious, but I haven't been able to find it. But it is of crucial importance if I'm going to use it myself. While I'm sure it is theoretically possible given that it runs Red Hat Linux underneath, it is the first thing I'd want to do with it, and I'd be frustrated if I have to spend my first hour with it figuring out the secret to unlock it. :)

    The question is: what is the procedure for getting into a bash shell?

    A related question is w

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Portfolio ( 552067 )

      The underlying window manager is Matchbox.

      There is a Developer Console [laptop.org] activity which provides a shell, log viewer, X resource meter, and memory usage meter.

      If you want a more adult interface than Sugar, you might be more interested in PepperPad. They are providing an OLPC compatible pre-release containing both a 1.5 JVM and a more adult-oriented environment.

  • $423 including shipping.

    Yes, some child in a developing nation will definitely get one if you order the buy one give one package. You get one too. I have a 4 year old daughter who currently borrows our laptops to play the flash games on PBSKIDS.ORG. I am hoping this will be easy for her to use.

    It runs Linux. Good battery life. Interesting screen. Modest CPU and graphics horsepower.

    There is no crank.

    Order soon, supplies are limited.

    Yes, I ordered one.

  • I'd like to know why there will only be limited quantities available for the NA market. Is there some reason for that? Don't they want to accept as many donations as possible?

    I strongly considered getting an XO laptop for myself. (Screw the kids, why should they have all the coolest stuff. :-)) I ended up going with the Asus Eee PC because it has a more traditional LCD screen, more RAM, more storage and a built-in SD card slot. Battery life isn't nearly as good with the Asus, and it is only about a

  • I set the alarm clock for 5:40 (EST), and refreshed the order page a few times ... but discovered I had to update my PayPal info, so I missed my chance to have the order in at 6:00 am on the dot ;)

    One thing I'd like this for is to take on my next (very infrequent) plane flight -- the cheapo laptops I have right now have both terrible battery life and more heft than airline trays like. (Oh, and don't open well in that tiny space the airlines call enough room for a passenger.) With the T-Mobile deal, it also

The IQ of the group is the lowest IQ of a member of the group divided by the number of people in the group.