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Television Media Toys Technology

Why Americans Don't Buy DVD Recorders 343

Posted by Zonk from the local-differences dept.
Ant writes "CNET News.com reports on the reasons behind the unpopularity of DVD recorders in the US. The devices, which have seen heavy support in Europe and Asia, fall flat in the United States. The biggest reason is the penetration of Cable television. With cable, the same show can appear on a channel several times. In Europe and Japan, viewers need to grab copies of shows when they can, as it could be some time before the episode is broadcast again. TiVo also took off more rapidly in the States and elsewhere. TiVo is also one of the reasons selling TVs with embedded hard drives in the States remains a challenge."
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Why Americans Don't Buy DVD Recorders More

Why Americans Don't Buy DVD Recorders

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  • What DVD recorders COULD be, but aren't (Score:5, Interesting)

    by elrous0 ( 869638 ) * on Thursday January 17, 2008 @05:03PM (#22085204)
    The big problem with DVD recorders for me (as an American) is that getting a show off my DVR and into a recorder is a pain in the ass. I have to play it off in realtime and I can't watch anything else while I'm doing it, since it all has to be done manaully.

    There was a time for me when this was much different. I used to have a Humax Tivo/DVD-recorder combo unit [amazon.com] that let me burn off shows from my Tivo to DVD-R at faster than real time and still watch other stuff while I did it (it burned in the background). But, thanks to the paranoia of the studios/networks/cable-companies and the DRM-laden standards for digital cable and HDTV, there is now no such combo unit made that can take a cablecard or record HD programs (sadly, I had to abandon my old Humax when I got digital cable a while back).

    Thanks MPAA, cable companies, and networks!

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by gnick ( 1211984 )
      You just need a better DVR. For a couple of hundred bucks + a couple of hours of effort, I revamped an old PC into a DVR with BeyondTV (I know - MythTV is free and you don't need Windows, but that's the way I went.) No subscription fees and HD if your tuner card supports it. And, if I want to burn something, I throw a blank DVD-R into the DVD drive and burn.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by elrous0 ( 869638 ) *
        Will it take a cablecard from my cable company? If the answer is "no," then it's absolutely worthless to me.
    • I have to play it off in realtime and I can't watch anything else while I'm doing it, Never had a DVD recorder, but if this is the only way they work, I can't watch anything else, and my Tivo might potentially miss one of the shows it's set to record? No wonder they didn't take off here, who has time for that.

      • Re:The Real Reason (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Beardo the Bearded ( 321478 ) on Thursday January 17, 2008 @05:49PM (#22085866)
        Not at all.

        I bought a Daytek HDD recorder from Costco. I plug in cable and power and attach it to my TV. I then set up the recording sequence just like a VCR. It records the shows I want it to. I've noted one exception with a broadcast flag (Aqua Teen Hunger Force, wtf?), but other than that it works almost perfectly. I've currently got about 65 hours recorded that I've got to watch.

        It also plays DivX or VixD disks. I got the Torchwood finale off Limewire (stupid CBC shifted it, and only announced it ONCE during the previous show, which we watched off "tape".) and it played with no problems.

        I can watch a recorded show or a DVD while it's recording.

        I can burn disks off the shows recorded onto the HDD.

        I have no idea what or where the original poster bought. Apparently it's crap.

        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          by Original Replica ( 908688 )
          Aqua Teen Hunger Force, wtf?

          Dude, ATHF is a well know terrorist organization. [wikipedia.org] It is unamerican of you to support them through your viewership. Every time you watch that show it is an insult to the hard working patriots in the Department of Homeland Security.


          good job.

    • Bigger problem (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Moryath ( 553296 ) on Thursday January 17, 2008 @05:27PM (#22085546)
      In the US, consumers were stuck with substandard, feature-stripped DVD recorders.

      -Media problems
      Nothing would work with the next generation of media (I was given as a "gift" a co-worker's old one that takes 1X and nothing but 1X... the "replacement" took nothing but 4X, wouldn't even work with the legacy 1X disks she had left over). Companies like Philips were shit-poor about issuing firmware updates to use current media, instead trying to forced-obsolete their products and force people to shell out $700-800 to replace a 1-2 year old burner.

      -Lack of hard drives and smart burning
      Not till the 4th generation did they include a hard drive to remove commercials before the data was burned, meaning if you record 2 hours of show you just recorded 40 minutes of wasted space. Trying to archive was a disaster with that going on.

      -Lack of ability to access cable
      In order to screw people further, cable companies started altering the phase of their signal to work with only proprietary set-top boxes (my ATi All-In-Wonder got screwed by this too, thank you Time Warner and Comcrap for making my purchase worthless). Want a DVR or recording? Better get their one that's built to be able to handle the phase-shifted signals... and is "rented" to you. Digital cable's even worse, because few if any DVD recorders recognize it, making you try to do a set-top box pass-through (same issue if you have satellite) to set the channel or else pray it has codes for its remote-interceptor dongle to do the channel changing work.

      Chances of getting a DVD burner unit cable of receiving component video or HD-quality? GOOD LUCK. The market's now been abandoned. If you want to do it, you build your own MythTV box or something.
      • I remember with Linux (XAW-TV?) you used to be able to change the phase of the channel. Each channel was programmed at some certain frequency, but you could just alter it to whatever you want. I think that most TV cards can tune to whichever frequency you want it (within some range), so you may not be completely out of luck. Actually now that I think about it, the IVTV drivers for my hauppauge let me set stations by frequency too.

      • Re:Bigger problem (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Ash Vince ( 602485 ) on Thursday January 17, 2008 @05:59PM (#22086004) Journal
        I think there is another reason why DVD burners are more popular in Europe which nobody seems to have mentioned yet:

        DVD's cost more here.

        If you in the states want to watch a film that is not likely to be broadcast on TV due to it niche market you can just buy it on DVD for $10 or so. Over here that same DVD would be about £10. Now since the dollar to pound exchange rate is currently about $2 = £1 we effectively pay close to double the price for prerecorded DVDs. That is a real incentive to record any film you might want to watch in future and then keep the disk.

        A DVR is all very well but however big the disk in it it will eventually be full and you have to start deleting stuff to make room. At that point you may only be able to watch it again in a few years by paying a fair old wodge of cash.

        The other issue is that this is probably a lot less appealing to people in the states due to the adverts every 10 mins. Who wants to have a permanent copy of your favourite film that has so many interruptions. Over here in Europe (well in Britain anyway) we have TV channels with no advert brakes. We also have less advert brakes in general even on the channels that do show advertising. This makes the idea of keeping a permanent copy of something you tape a lot more appealing.

        With all this in mind though, I would rather live in the US and simply pay less to buy prerecorded DVDs. Then I would not mind using a DVR as a temporary storage medium for stuff I had not got around to watching yet and deleting it when I did.
        • Umm, I don't know about that. I just got back from being in Israel for 2 weeks and although its not Europe, DVD prices were about the same as the US (price fixing is suspect though). I saw new movies for about 20$ US (80 NIS) if bought from legitimate stores and not bootlegged.

          Also, isn't MythTV and stuff like that, using your personal PC as a HTPC supposed to work too?

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by badasscat ( 563442 )
            Umm, I don't know about that. I just got back from being in Israel for 2 weeks and although its not Europe, DVD prices were about the same as the US (price fixing is suspect though). I saw new movies for about 20$ US (80 NIS) if bought from legitimate stores and not bootlegged.

            In Japan, one of the territories mentioned in the original post, DVD's are usually around $50 and *up*. So yes, this is a major consideration there.

            People in Japan can take their HDD/DVD recorder, record a high-def broadcast of a Hol

    • Re:What DVD recorders COULD be, but aren't (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Sancho ( 17056 ) on Thursday January 17, 2008 @05:29PM (#22085574) Homepage
      I was tempted by DVD recorders many times. The main reasons I never took the plunge are:
      - Too expensive. I kept waiting for the prices to drop, and they never did. When I stopped caring, they were just under $1,000.
      - Low recording capacity. I think the blanks are good for 2 hours. It may vary based upon quality, but quality matters--I'd rather have VHS than low-quality digital.
      - TiVo hacking. Eventually, I got a TiVo, and could extract shows on my own, and burn them to (slightly out-of-spec) DVD.

      I finally got rid of the TiVo when I got satellite, but now don't care so much about archiving. My DVR gets the shows, I watch them, then I delete them. I came to realize that most of the stuff that I wanted more-permanent copies of, I rarely watched again, anyway.

      So the truth is, for me, a DVR is all I want. Swapping DVD blanks and low recording times make the solution completely unacceptable at this point, even if they came down in price significantly.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by xaxa ( 988988 )
        The lowest quality on my parents' DVD recorder gives about 6 hours to a disc, and is (according to the manual) VHS quality (possibly slightly better, I can't remember). I think the only benefit for a DVDR over a DVR is my mum (a teacher) can record something at home and take it to school very easily (there's lots of educational programs -- good ones! -- on BBC overnight in the UK, and DVDs are much, much nicer than VHS tapes in school -- no rewinding, no chewed tape, and the quality remains).

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Sancho ( 17056 )
          VHS quality is very deceptive. What that usually means is 320x240 at 30fps resolution, or 320x288 at 25fps, which will appear fairly blocky on large TVs. Real VHS will appear blurry rather than blocky--to me, it's superior, but I understand that different people may have different tastes.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by elrous0 ( 869638 ) *

        but now don't care so much about archiving

        God, I miss my old Humax. It was so perfect for that purpose. I still have several shows that I watch that I had archived on that unit. The most important (and I'm so glad I saved it off to DVD-R) was a 2-part miniseries that aired on the National Geographic Channel called Space Race [imdb.com]. This was one of the most fascinating documentaries on the Russian and U.S. space programs I've ever seen (in fact, being an American and having to deal with pro-American Cold War ce

      • Re:What DVD recorders COULD be, but aren't (Score:5, Informative)

        by trolltalk.com ( 1108067 ) on Thursday January 17, 2008 @06:17PM (#22086210) Homepage Journal

        LG LRA-850 - $99.00 just before christmas, so I bought 3.

        Easy to use:

        1. stick blank dvd in (I use rewriteables)
        2. asks if you want to initialize disk - hit "ok"
        3. show starts - hit record button
        4. show's over - hit eject
        Wait a minute while it creates the menus and finalizes the disc, and you're done.

        As a bonus, it also plays divx files just fine.

        • Re:What DVD recorders COULD be, but aren't (Score:5, Interesting)

          by yuna49 ( 905461 ) on Friday January 18, 2008 @12:24AM (#22089744)
          I have an LG DVDR/VCR combo unit, and like it quite a bit as well. I bought it primarily to dub old VHS recordings onto DVD, but I use it for off-air recordings as well. It even supports the S-VHS format, which a few of my tapes were in. Using the DVD recorder produces quite acceptable quality even at the 6-hour speed, especially for live programs like sporting events. Unless I want to archive something, I use DVD+RW disks and just write over them. As fewer amd fewer people have VCRs, it's nice to be able to share a program with a friend using standard-format DVDs.

          Being able to play DivX/XviD files was another big plus for me since I watch fansubbed anime. I would write the files to a DVD on my computer, then play them on my TV using the LG. Even in the current generation of upscaling DVD players, there are manufacturers who still don't support DivX playback, notably Sony. I bought a Sony upscaling player and immediately exchanged it for a Panasonic S53 when I discovered the Sony wouldn't play DivX. However, the value of DivX playback has faded somewhat since I bought an HDTV and connected a computer to it directly. This method has the additional advantage over the DVD player of letting me play shows in the Matroska or standard (non-DivX) MPEG4 containers.

          My positive experiences with this device made me wonder about the initial topic.
      • I get about 7.5-8 hours on my disks. Quality isn't bad at that compression either. And I only paid about $80 for it. Even works with my satellite receiver.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Inda ( 580031 )
        They're £50 ($100) in the UK at the moment. With a USB slot in the front that claims DiVX playback. People here, in the near future, will no longer buy normal DVD players.

    • Re:What DVD recorders COULD be, but aren't (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 17, 2008 @05:35PM (#22085656)
      Everything this commenter says is also applicable to the High Def Recorder. Combining a TV tuner and a hard drive is not technically difficult. Yet, you cannot buy an off the air HD DVR unless it is a Sat TV or Cable co rental box. The short answer is that "they" don't want you to be able to cache programming in any way "they" don't absolutely control. Witness the move for "video on demand" which is really a remote cache of programming delivered to your house by their servers.

      I hope someone comes out with a new HD DVR by 2009, as my Sony gets it's time stamp from analog programming signals, and I really don't want to pay a rental fee for a new unit.

      Meanwhile, in Japan, Korea, "down under", and much of Europe, there are not only DVR's, but HD DVR's that BURN TO BLU RAY.....Why can't I buy one of those ???? I have money, and there are thousands, possibly millions of me out there.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Otto ( 17870 )

        Yet, you cannot buy an off the air HD DVR unless it is a Sat TV or Cable co rental box.
        The TivoHD will record OTA HD directly. You do have to pay the Tivo monthly fee for the guide data and such, however. Or buy the lifetime service.

        Admittedly, it's aimed at Cable customers with it's CableCard support. But it will record over-the-air HD channels as well.
    • You bring out some good points but I'd like to add convenience to your list.

      DVD Burners are inconvenient in two striking ways:

      First, there is no access to the stinking GUIDE! A DVR has access, one way or another, to the program scheduling. Without that a DVD Burner has to be programmed to record manually and that's just too much of a hassle.

      Second, after having a TIVO going back to a system that requires manual programming is bad enough. Going back to a system that requires manual programming AND the manual

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by ardent99 ( 1087547 )
      I have a wonderful Panasonic device I bought last year. It is a combination DVR/VCR/DVD recorder, with TV Guide Online. It is one of the best purchases I ever made. The integration of the functions is great. I can select a program in the TV guide mode, and with a click or two of the remote tell it to record that show to the hard disk when it comes on. Most of the time I don't need to get it off the hard disk, so I just delete it when I'm done. But occasionally, like for a good movie, I can edit out the

    • Also, it's technically difficult. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by maillemaker ( 924053 ) on Thursday January 17, 2008 @06:09PM (#22086116)
      I bought a DVD burner for my PC. I also bought a TV tuner card for my PC. My plan was to watch episodes of Battlestar Galatcia on cable, piped into my PC, record it, edit out the commercials, and then burn it to a DVD to watch later.

      Not only did the burning take a long time, but I never got DVDs that reliably played in either of the 2 DVD players we had at the time. They would play for about 2 minutes, then the video would pixellate while the audio kept going for a few minutes, and then it would stop.

      After dinking around on the support forums for a while I was told that burning DVDs was a black art, not to burn at the full rated speed of the drive, yadda yadda yadda.

      Eventually I gave up. It was easier and much faster to just save the raw video file on a hard drive, and go buy a 500GB hard drive to store all my video on. Now I watch all videos off of my hard drive. Burning to DVD was time consuming, tedious, and unreliable.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by HTH NE1 ( 675604 )
      I still have my Humax DVD-R TiVo, but it too has fallen to disuse. I don't even use it to play back DVDs, even though the 8-second replay option is something I've wanted in a DVD player. Its burner has only been used to burn episodes of The Daily Show and The Colbert Report on a lark of archiving a full year "because I can", until I missed an episode due to expiration. Now there's no point: I can do a much better job using my Mac.

      Its limitations today are that I can't burn podcasts (without laundering them
  • I have a DVD recorder. Does RW's. Basically it has replaced my VCR. Personally, I love it and wish I had gotten one earlier.

  • Eh? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Malevolent Tester ( 1201209 ) * on Thursday January 17, 2008 @05:07PM (#22085254) Journal
    In Europe and Japan, viewers need to grab copies of shows when they can, as it could be some time before the episode is broadcast again

    The author must be watching a different BBC to the one I get.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Kuukai ( 865890 )
      Ditto for Japan. In fact, lots of (anime, at least) shows go through the same 2-week-delayed cable rerun cycle you only see with extremely popular shows in America (House, Family Guy).

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by hyfe ( 641811 )

      The author must be watching a different BBC to the one I get.
      Europe does contain parts not Britain. In fact. a rather large part of Europe is by many people considered to be 'not Britain'.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by MLCT ( 1148749 )
      It depends on the show. Timewatch on BBC2 has been on for the last couple of weeks - one on Omaha beach & one on the viking ship sailing around Scotland. Neither of those were repeated, or will be (for some unspecific number of years on the BBC until they have some time to fill at 2am).

  • TiVo is also one of the reasons selling TVs with embedded hard drives in the States remains a challenge.

    They're making TV's with embedded HDs? I hadn't heard about this. Is this like a built-in DVR?

    • They're making TV's with embedded HDs? I hadn't heard about this. Is this like a built-in DVR?

      First I've heard of this as well. I've been looking for a way to DVR without having to deal with a living room PC or a subscription service like TIVO - something like the SanDisk V-Mate [sandisk.com] but with an integrated tuner - and such a beast doesn't seem to exist. A TV with an embedded HD looks like an interesting compromise, especially if the video is encoded in a relatively open format like MPEG2 or MPG4 (but I'm not counting on it).

    • Yeah, perhaps these things have "failed to take-off in the US" because we don't know they exist. I think there are plenty of people out there without TiVos considering purchasing a DVR, who would consider buying a TV with an integrated DVR--but only if they know they exist. You can't blame the popularity of TiVo if there has been marketing of the alternative!
  • Maybe just once we Americans actually made the right decision passing on a technology that is popular elsewhere in order to embrace a superior one?

    Not that having a DVDR as part of your PVR wouldn't be cool so you could take the disc to a friend's house for example, but really with a big HD in your tivo/freevo/mythtv/time warner POS, there just isn't that much need.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jedidiah ( 1196 )
      With an Open PVR, the idea of a console format just seems silly.
      Want to make a DVD of your recordings? Just drag and drop them
      into the desktop DVD creation app of your choice. It's going to
      be far easier to use and more robust than console DVD recorder.

      Many console dvd players even support "PC formats" like divx.

      So restricting yourself to DVD Video just seems really silly...

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by elrous0 ( 869638 ) *
        Well let me know when your "Open PVR" will take a cablecard from my cable company. Until then it's pretty much worthless to anyone with digital cable or HDTV.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by jedidiah ( 1196 )
          Go away. You don't even have a cable provider PVR. You're beyond clueless.

          Tivo's and Tivo like devices have NEVER had problems with "digital cable". Some of us have been doing this for nearly 10 years at this point.

          As far as Cable HD goes: all of those component -> h264 devices set to hit the market are are going to make the cablecard moot. Then there's the DirecTV network tuner.

          If it's a network show (like Heroes), then the issue of "cable" is completely irrelevant.

          The real question is: when are the HD

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Sloppy ( 14984 )

          To flip that around: digital cable and HDTV are worthless to people until they get their weird interoperability problems fixed.

          I'll take more capabilities over more pixels, any day.

  • Isn't that reasoning contradictory? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by joeflies ( 529536 ) on Thursday January 17, 2008 @05:13PM (#22085322)
    1) TV shows are broadcasted frequently in the US, so no need for DVD recording devices

    2) Tivo is a recording device that is popular in the US

    It seems to me that the "broadcasted frequently" isn't a valid reason for why DVD recording devices aren't popular, because there are recording devices that are popular.
    • Not really.

      1. TV shows ARE rebroadcast frequently (heck you can see new Law and Orders on USA like the week after a new run) so it is true that this has the effect of many people not really desiring/using recording devices in general.

      2. For those people that do desire a recording device, Tivo and other DVR's has already filled the niche to a large extent.
    • I think they serve different purposes really. DVD burners give you a permanent copy, allowing you to watch the show repeatedly, show it to friends, take it with you, etc... Tivo, at least from the people I talk to who have such a thing (I don't watch TV), seems to be primarily used to time shift programming--you can save it up and then watch it at times that are convenient for you rather than the networks. Most people I know who use Tivo delete almost everything after they get around to watching it. For

  • TVs with hard drives (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Grishnakh ( 216268 ) on Thursday January 17, 2008 @05:14PM (#22085352)
    This is just a stupid idea, just like the old TVs combined with VCRs which became obsolete when DVDs came out. It's much better to just buy a standalone TV/monitor, and separate DVD player, TiVo, etc. and connect them together. Otherwise you get a mediocre device which does many things poorly, at a high price.
    • Also if one device fails it kind of sucks. The TV fails, the PVR/VCR is useless. If the PVR/VCR fails then you still have to buy a stand alone one and explain to people coming over why you have features on your tv that you can't use. PVR might be harder to hide but a DVD-R/VCR leaves a hole on your TV that nothing can fill :(

      I agree even if you were able to get two that did the job great I would not go for it, looks stupid when you upgrade or one fails.
    • I have disagree. Having set up and used one(I believe it was a Samsung, though this was 6 months ago) for my parents, it is a boon. The TV uses a standardized Sata-II Hard drive that is 250GB. With that, they only had to have one single remote that did it all without any extra setup. It took about 30 minutes for me to teach my dad how to work the JIT recording, programming guide etc. As for the audio and video quality, I can honestly say that it looked more than acceptable, though slight pixellation occurr

    • This is just a stupid idea, just like the old TVs combined with VCRs which became obsolete when DVDs came out.

      Unless you live in a country where space is insanely expensive, people live in VERY small apartments/houses, and live in a culture that appreciates aesthetics in their living spaces. After all, look at what Americans do- they try to dress up the TV, VCR, DVD player etc in a big "media center" so the cables are hidden and you have a place to actually put the damn thing. The Japanese just say "eh

      • Irregardless, you're arguing against the market, chief. If they're right in asserting that TVs with DVRs builtin are popular, they're popular whether *you* like the concept or not, and just because they sell them does not mean they're trying to capture the entire market of TVs or DVD players. Repeat after me: "just because an item is not intended for me, does not mean the product 'sucks' or there is no market."

        Sorry, but the market apparently agrees with me. Combo units don't sell well here in America. Th

  • The real reason.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by MarkGriz ( 520778 ) on Thursday January 17, 2008 @05:15PM (#22085362)
    is we're all a bunch of stealing illegal file downloading copyright infringing pirates.

    Just ask the MPAA.

  • My reasons (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dan East ( 318230 ) on Thursday January 17, 2008 @05:15PM (#22085364) Journal
    For us, initially the cost of the hardware and media was too much compared to the good old VCR.
    Later, our DVR pretty much made it pointless.
    Most recently, the ability to watch TV shows off the internet on-demand, or to obtain them via BitTorrent, has almost supplanted the DVR completely.

    Dan East

  • Where to plug it in? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dazedNconfuzed ( 154242 ) on Thursday January 17, 2008 @05:17PM (#22085400)
    In considering getting an HDTV, my wife casually asked about recording shows. Aghast, I had to admit I wasn't sure how that could be done! In the HDMI world - as the cartels intended - there just is no place to plug in a recorder, and DVRs don't come with disc writers. Yeah, I could hack up something involving a PC, HD tuner card, ill-supported software, bittorrent, etc. but it just would never meet the "insert blank, choose channel, hit 'Record'" it-just-works paradigm.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by vux984 ( 928602 )
      In considering getting an HDTV, my wife casually asked about recording shows. Aghast, I had to admit I wasn't sure how that could be done! In the HDMI world - as the cartels intended - there just is no place to plug in a recorder, and DVRs don't come with disc writers. Yeah, I could hack up something involving a PC, HD tuner card, ill-supported software, bittorrent, etc. but it just would never meet the "insert blank, choose channel, hit 'Record'" it-just-works paradigm.

      DVRs tend to be even MORE user friend
    • Well, that makes me depressed. I work long hours and often record shows on TV (I am in Australia) to watch at my leisure. Australia will soon be changing broadcast to digital-only and I assume that at some point HDTV. If I get HDTV, then the lack of insert blank, choose channel, record is going to seriously affect me. Your comment has opened my eyes to something I had not even thought of. Sigh.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by _xeno_ ( 155264 )

      Can I ask what's wrong with something like a TiVo HD [tivo.com]?

      If all you're interested in is recording a show and watching it later, any HD DVR should work fine.

      If you want to watch the shows on your laptop or something like that, with a TiVo HD you can always use TiVoToGo [tivo.com] (which is annoyingly well hidden on their website, and doesn't make any mention of HD support - I suppose I'll have to try it later). There's even support for burning to DVD through a computer, although that requires Roxio.

      (And, uh, I've bee

    • In considering getting an HDTV, my wife casually asked about recording shows.
      You should make it clear whether you are talking off the air, cable, or dish. Near as I'm aware all recorders in the US in 2007 must include ATSC tuners, so in theory you could record as before, just DVD-video doesn't support HD. However there are units like DViCO's TiVX 5010-P HDTV Recorder which will record in 1080, but not sold in the states.

  • When I compared the cost of a DVR to adding a TV card to my my old retired socket A PC, it was cheaper to just add the card. If you have an older machine, you get a better device with more functionality for not much cash. I can record and erase, or burn as I see fit.

    Good use for all those machines that are sitting in closets.

  • Because HDD recorders are better (Score:4, Informative)

    by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Thursday January 17, 2008 @05:20PM (#22085430)
    DVD seems like a large medium when you are storing something like old documents, but it really isn't when you are talking video. I mean think: A DVD only holds a few hours of video when you get one for a movie. Even if you are willing to lower the quality, you aren't going to get much more than 6 hours out of a DVD, storing in DVD Video format.

    Well thats crap, frankly. That equals lots of switching of discs and having to keep a large library. Better to just keep everything on a hard disk. That way when I want a show, it is right there. You can store a whole lot more, since they are larger, and it is all instant access and rewritable.

    Finally, you get better quality with digital cable. I've never seen a DVD recorder that does TV tuning as well. That means the signal needs to be decompressed, sent to the recorder, then recompressed. However with a DVR it is a TV tuner and HD recorder. That means it just tunes in the cable signal, and stores the compressed information on the disk, no recompress.

    It is just a technology that isn't that useful, given what else is out there.
    • Totally agreed, and as for the "European successs" talk in the article, I haven't seen many DVD recorders compared to HDD ones lately over here anyway. *shrug*
  • As an American who is pretty knowledgeable about tech, I'm pretty surprised I hadn't heard about these myself. They're not marketed much if at all in the States according to the article. ... that may have a bit to do with slow/no adoption.
    • Ever look at a Best Buy circular? They list one or two on sale pretty much every week. They have them at mostly every store that sells dvd players including Wal-Mart.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Aladrin ( 926209 )
      My mother (definitely not a techie) asked me about buying a DVD Recorder a couple years ago. I talked her out of it.

      I don't know about everywhere else, but they were in the sale ads a lot here in Central Florida. Haven't seen them for over a year now... Probably because nobody would buy them no matter the price.

      I think the main problems were fear of the unknown and confusion about media. +'s and -'s, CDs and DVDs, speeds... It was all too much for non-techies to handle.

      For the record, I convinced her n
  • 1) Support HD recording off of cable and/or satellite onto hard disk* and/or DVDs.
    2) Sell it (for below $300).
    3) Profit!!!!

    * Either I get to install my own internal hard drive or hook up an external USB drive.
  • I bought my parents a DVD recorder for Christmas only to find out later they could not copy their legally purchased VHS collection to DVD due to some macrovision crap. So now after having burned a few old home videos this recorder will probably sit on the self collecting dust. What's the point of having a DVD recorder if you can't record content you legally own? Word travels fast and at least a other dozen older folks I know now won't be getting a DVD recorder. The hardware vendors really screw themselves w

    • Sima copymaster....

    • I bought my parents a DVD recorder for Christmas only to find out later they could not copy their legally purchased VHS collection to DVD due to some macrovision crap.

      Ah, that is the first introduction that most average consumers have to DRM and copy protection. They think that techies of the sort who hang around on Slashdot bemoaning the evils of DRM are just a bunch of nerds blowing hot air about something which doesn't matter. They are stunned when they find out that they cannot copy their VHS tapes to DVD (or their DVDs to VHS tape) without either a band pass filtering device (which is way too black market for most people) or special software which is also "question

  • DRM again... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by evilviper ( 135110 ) on Thursday January 17, 2008 @05:31PM (#22085598) Journal
    Why in the world would anyone get a crippled stand-alone DVD recorder? You have to put up with macrovision, and digital tokens preventing recording from DVDs or VHS tapes, and even sometimes digital cable/satellite tuners.

    You have to record in real-time, at low quality, and that's if you or an installer can even figure out how to get the wiring right... Most satellite installers can't figure out how to keep a single VCR in the loop, let alone VCR+DVD+DVDR+DVR.

    Meanwhile, if you put a TV tuner and DVD-Burner in your computer, you can (trivially) edit out commercials, decide after the fact whether or not it's worth wasting a disc on the show... You can make backup DVD copies at 16X. You can back-up data from your computer. You can record high-def video to disc. etc., etc.

    The story here is that Americans aren't stupid enough to buy DRM crippled, expensive, and inherently limited, stand-alone DVD recorders.

  • torrents are easier (Score:2, Insightful)

    by VMaN ( 164134 )
    Drop .torrent file in torrent directory on server. torrent takes care of the rest, while providing a nice web interface front end if needed even my gf can use, and playback using XBMC directly on the TV.

    Now all we need it xbmc for linux to mature so i can playback 1080p with some better/faster hardware.

    And as a bonus I have all seasons of all shows I've watched at my fingertips.
  • I'm a phd student studying media and my dvd recorder has been pretty invaluable in recording things that won't get shown again. I know that there are a few shows that I would love to get copies of for my research that have only aired once because I've searched and searched for them or torrents of them to no avail. I have had some luck emailing the networks and getting a copy by telling them that it is for my research but the dvd recorder has saved me a lot of time and effort.
  • There's nothing to be easily recorded. Terrestrial is almost exclusively CRAP, and the only DVD recorder that I've got near only has a terrestrial tuner - that one has NEVER been used for recording anything, at all. So, you could always plug the output of a freeview box or digital cable box into it, but that involves two devices. That involves setting the channel on the recorder and on the box, and making sure that someone else doesn't come along 1/2 an hour later and just change the channel on the box (bec
  • They get scratched and refuse to play. Some brands don't work too well with certain players etc. Hard drives make much more sense as long as it's easy to back stuff up. These days you can buy USB Hard drives that double as little media centres. You can record stuff off the TV and back it up on your PC if you want to. Obviously you can also transfer any films you have on your PC to the drive as well, so you can put your DVD collection on there easily (space permitting). I've seen quite a few different model
  • After looking over several models I settled on one by Phillips. The most annoying part is that, when recording, the audio can't keep up with the video. It results in programs where the delay is so bad, it starts to become garbled. Although this doesn't always happen, it happens often enough that the DVR was a better option.

  • How about a bullited list? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ProppaT ( 557551 ) on Thursday January 17, 2008 @05:47PM (#22085842) Homepage
    * - (most affordable) DVD recorders don't record HDTV
    * - (most affordable) DVD recorders don't record or tune digital cable
    * - (most affordable) DVD recorders have really really crappy image quality, due partially to the fact that they don't tune the digital signal and also due to the fact that they just suck
    * - (most affordable) DVD recorders do not have an in-depth recording menu like DVR's do. There's none of that searching for programs, record every instance of a program, "only record first run" options, etc.
    * - (most) People don't like a bunch of discs laying around when it can be held in the device and, as an ancillary, most people don't want to have to remember to "load up the dvd recorder" before they go to work
    * - (many) People just download tv programs off the internet if they want to keep a copy of the show
    * - US major broadcasting stations have really, really good online sites that let you watch the shows (many times in HD) on your computer
    * - DVD's just don't hold much data, whereas I have stuff on my DVR dated back to October at this point
    * - Many DVR's from cable companies are easy to hook portable hard drives up to...
    * - Many American's have the mentality that paying a little each month (to rent a dvr) is better than paying one lump sum up front (for a dvd recorder), especially when the DVR gives you the benefits previously mentioned.

    Of course, I'm sure that DVD recorder technology in the US is severely lagging behind the rest of the world because DVR is preferred here (and, on the same note, I'm sure our DVR's blow the rest of the worlds out of the water), but until we see Blue Ray DVD Recorders that record HD programs and can store massive amounts of data AND until we see Blue Ray discs get cheap enough to make this a viable option, DVR's really the only solution for me.

    Anyone who wants, feel free to add to the list. This was just off the top of my head...

  • I have two DVD recorders. Magnavox ($97 from Walmart; about 1.5 years old) and Phillips ($110 from Amazon, about 6 months old).

    I use the Magnavox fifty times more. Why? Because it AUTO-SETS the TIME/DATE from a TV channel!
    The Phillips doesn't have this feature.

    Anybody want to buy the Phillips?
  • and you simply won't care.

    I don't have cable, don't need it, and don't want it. I don't have to worry about whether the cable company lets me record a show. I don't have to worry about what media my DVD recorder supports. I don't need an 80" TV for some sort of fulfillment.

    Its amazing how many people complain about the cable company, the studios, the TV and AV equipment manufacturers, the FCC, etc. But, when it comes down to it, few of the same people actually vote with their money and give it up.

  • Buggiest peices of sh (Score:4, Informative)

    by Tmack ( 593755 ) on Thursday January 17, 2008 @05:53PM (#22085926) Homepage Journal
    If most are like the Panasonic one Im about to return, then its simply because these have to be the buggiest, slowest crappiest devices ever sold. I got a DMR-EZ47V, which is a Panasonic DVD recorder/VCR/Digital Tuner. Well, I got it mainly for the digital tuner and dvd player, since analog reception at my house sucks (digital actually gives me MORE channels) and I have no other digital tuner, my DVD player is old and locks up from overheating half way through a disc, and my VCR is ancient and I want to piss off the MPAA and actually convert the tapes to disc rather than buy more DVDs.

    Well, it would all be great, if it actually worked. First, it takes a good 30-45 seconds just to power on, unless you set it to "quick power up", which is basically having it ON but not on (draws something like only 100ma less than full poweron vs ~14ma draw if its completely off). Thats before ANY screen comes up or it allows you to do anything with it. IF you happen to have a DVD in it when you turn it on, it automagically plays the disc. No, theres no menu option to turn off autoplay, and thanks to the feature of not allowing you to skip through an FBI/copyright warning message you cant stop it until it gets to the DVD's main menu, tacking on another minute or so to the boot of the damned thing (pressing stop does nothing but display the red hand indicating you cant do that, and eject wont work either, until fully powered on and not on one of those screens).

    Once it finally boots, you have to press the tv/vcr button to actually view its output via the RF inverter (chan3/4), or turn on your stereo to get the picture via RCA jack (unless you have hdmi, which I dont, but that probably has its own issues), UNLESS you had a disc in the drive, then it will have already changed modes for you. Changing channels takes a good 2 seconds each, and if you flip more than one at a time, you risk getting the channel display out of sync with the actual channel its displaying. Also, the channel info display that shows what program is on/next stops working after a couple minutes of use. The longer you leave it on, the slower it gets (memory leak?), and it can take 5+ seconds to respond to a button press on the remote (ie: you push channel up and wait, and a few seconds later it changes. If you push it again while waiting, it changes several channels). It has a tendency to lock up at a black screen while the unit itself displays "U99", which the manual says is "Error, power off/on to reset unit". Which brings up the unit's display itself.... it displays the clock, only while off. When on, it only displays the status of the drive, or an error message, and you cant change it to be informative at all, there is no option to show what channel its on or to have it just display the clock, while watching TV, it always displays "STOP".

    So, it has a DVD recorder as well. Well, it would be nice if it ACTUALLY RECORDED A PROGRAM! But thanks to DRM and broadcast flags (in this case, copyright flags of some sort, or just another bug), you schedule a recording, set it up like the manual says (ie: set the shows time, duration, channel and recording quality, put in a blank disc, and power it off), verify that its set right by seeing the red recording indicator thingy, and come back later to find that the scheduled event has passed, but the damn thing didnt do anything. No explination, it just shows up as an event in the past that you can no longer change, and you have a blank DVD still in the drive. WTF. It also claims to play "DivX" encoded movies, but whats funny is the cheapass 4 year old player Im replacing with it could play alot more of the formats than this thing can, and when this one tries to actually play DivX, it over heats and locks up only a quarter through the movie, after starting to drop frames and cause massive pixelation.

    I bitched to Panasonic about it, they shipped me a Firmware update disc, which made it respond a bit faster to remote control presses, and reduced the number of lockups, but the thing still locks up, ge

  • I don't know that I agree with the statement, "With cable, the same show can appear on a channel several times." With some channels and some shows, i.e. movies, HBO, Showtime, etc. that's true. In years past we always had the summer reruns to catch up on a missed series, but no longer. Now a show goes through a season and never reruns unless it's highly popular and picked up as such a few years down the line. Seasons are broken up and new shows are now being introduced in what used to be mid-season (January
  • I want to get rid of my VCR when I get DTV and/or digital feeds (before February 2009 deadline) or if my VCR dies. However, DVD recorders are unreliable from what I read, don't have large recording spaces, and/or not true high definition (HD) if I get HDTV. Also, I don't want to use a dedicated computer since it takes a lot of heat (awful in my 90 degrees(F) room), power, and potential to break (want a dedicated hardware recorder without subscription). Bah!

  • Recorders were always a niche use in the USA (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Otto ( 17870 ) on Thursday January 17, 2008 @06:21PM (#22086282) Homepage Journal
    Video recorders were always a niche use in the USA. Think back to the VCR days. What was the main use of recorders, other than copying movies to build a movie collection?

    Most of it was Video Rental. Playback. It was the only reason most people got VCRs. The fact that the box could also record was unimportant. From a tape perspective, a playback only unit didn't make any sense anyway, the hardware would play or record without any real cost difference.

    The few who did know how to program their VCR's used it to record broadcast television. And almost all of that was not archival, it was one-time-use. They'd record it because they wanted to see it later. They didn't want to see it over and over again. Oh, sure, they recorded some things for the kids to watch continously, but really, once you've seen most programs once, that's enough.

    Nobody really used consumer VCR's to make archives of video material. Sure, they copied movies and kept them around a while, but eventually a lot of people recorded over even these. Who has stacks of video tapes anymore? Did they move their material to DVD's? Home movies sure, but most of it just got trashed.

    DVD Recorders did not take off because of all of these reasons.

    a) DVD Recorders cost more than DVD players because of different hardware requirements. And most people wanted them for rental only.

    b) Tivo and other hard drive based recorders filled the rest of the niche, because a Tivo is like a big programmable VCR, only you never need to change tapes.

    c) The only reason left is archival, and people here simply don't archive video material. They don't really want to create their own long term storage except for their own home made materials. If they do, then they're perfectly willing to buy a high quality copy on DVD that they can keep for a long time.

    The market isn't there for DVD Video Recorders simply because it doesn't fit the use cases of people who want to record video as well as other solutions do.
  • The one computer does the job of a dedicated TV, DVR, DVD player, cable box, web browser, mp3 player, picture frame, and video editor for a lot less money.
  • I'm surprised to hear people talk about incompatible cable boxes etc. In the UK and AFAIK most/all of Europe, everything has a SCART, HDMI or both as a minimum so any cable, satallite, DVD or VHS deck can be connected together, often daisy chained, as needed. There's no problem plugging your cable box into a DVD recorder, indeed, most DVD recorders can even change channel on your cable/sat box for you via IR transmitters.
    I don't know many people with pure DVD recorders though. Most have combi HD/DVD decks,

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