Recording Music Without the Recording Industry 234
hephaist0s writes "The 2008 RPM Challenge — to write and record an original album in February, just because you can — is about to begin. Hundreds of musicians from around the world have already signed up. Last year, more than 850 albums were recorded as part of the challenge, a testament to what can be done by independent musicians without a label, without the RIAA, and often without a professional studio. The efforts ranged from an album made entirely on a Nintendo Game Boy to a Speed Racer rock opera, produced by both experienced bands and novice musicians, often in continent-spanning online collaborations. Last year's challenge generated one of the largest free jukeboxes of original music available online, built to stream on-demand all 8500-plus original, artist-owned songs. Imagine if grassroots, independent systems like this foretold the future of recorded music and its distribution."
Not good enough... (Score:2, Funny)
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on "Free" music... (Score:4, Insightful)
"Free does not work long term".
What I mean is complex, and it includes many different factors. First off, living and existing requires money: for food, shelter, power, and security. There's no avoiding it. Getting great people to devote (significant) time onto projects requires that they be paid. If not, the great people go elsewhere. For short times, and for specific initiatives, one can get remarkable, free contributions: but it doesn't last very long. There needs to be a financial element to any project or organization that will create value and last long term.
The second thing to realize is that for the long-term services and groups that we do see that are both great and free to you (eg Linux, apache, public parks, etc. etc.) - someone is paying, but it's just not you. There is typically just some kind of cost shifting going on. It is either the programmer who voluntarily spending their time, the foundation donors giving money to pay the staff, EFF staff fighting to keep legal protections available, or taxation programs paying for public services.
There are increasing awareness now among people that there are several other forms of value getting passed around online that are not cash: for example (1) people's time and attention, and (2) social capital/connections and relationships, and others. When you incorporate these factors as ones of own value, then it becomes clear that absolutely nothing is "free". Someone does work to make and organize things, and they need to be paid back, or they will (eventually) move their efforts elsewhere. That payment back does not necessarily need to be only in cash: it can be in attention, credit, or other items or actions they find valuable. That said, for most artists and content creators making great work, they do need cash in order to continue to spend their time making high quality content.
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Flat-rate subscription services - not good enough; DRM too restrictive. iTunes/FairPlay - not good enough; DRM doesn't handle every sin
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Many great things online are "free" to the user: Google search results, Facebook profiles, Yahoo events listings, attending Meetup groups, and on and on. So much so that many users are attuned to the idea that all the stuff online could be, it "should be" free for them. But someone is paying all those people who created these services, usually, in a parallel to
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OK, I'm going to end this before I devolve into my standard socialist agenda.
I've heard Portland is fun. I am living in Boston these days. Lots of socialism. Lots of fun and vibrant events taking place. Lots of money being spent on beer and beer being used to foot the bill to cover events (whether they be in Harvard Square or local taverns).
The most perplexing thing about socialism, though, is that the people who tell you it is doomed to fail are either (a) not involved in the community, or (b) the first to complain if the subway is 15 minutes late because of trouble on the
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One of my favorite examples of socialism--small scale--I have ever seen was in the structure of rice patties in Bali. The actions of the people at the top of the hill--water diversion, fertili
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People don't mind paying for Digital music, iTunes showed us that. Give them a choice and maybe a watermark to let them know and while things will still be shared between friends, those friend will also encourage each other to go pay
Everyone needs a good revolution (Score:2, Insightful)
What MUSICIANS need is to be free of these commercial juggernauts so they can compete in the market without juggernaut approval.
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Re:on "Free" music... (Score:5, Insightful)
Granted, I'm barely breaking even financially when you factor in the cost of my gear, but why is everyone obsessed with measuring success with dollars? I'm probably happier with my music "career" than most major label artists, mainly because I'm doing it totally on my own terms, and yet people are hearing it and enjoying it. I have no doubt that my music wouldn't have spread beyond my immediate friends if it weren't for releasing it as Creative Commons.
It's not a big deal that I have to work a day job to pay the bills. You'd be surprised how many signed artists have to do the same.
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After looking through your "production" section though, I couldn't really find a specific place where you discussed equipment, recording, software and/or a basic setup that artists who wanted to produce for themselves could use. This would be very valuable info, especially as most of the artists on the "RP
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I think the first rule of recording outside of a studio (speaking as an audio engineer who works in a studio) is to accept that your recordings will not sound like they were made in a studio. I think the second rule is there's nothing wrong with that. Though the majority of great recordings thus far have been made in
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There's a great podcast called "Inside Home Recording" that does software, hardware, recording equipment reviews as well as interviews with people who produce recordings for a living to get their take on it. Check it out at http://www.insidehomerecording.com/ [insidehomerecording.com].
BTW, I am not affiliated with this site or podcast in any way. Just a happy listener.
HBH
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One question I'm curious about - how much do you actually get from iTunes? If I like your music, I'm more likely to gift
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With the kind of traffic you're bringing in, I would assume that even a low key single ad box on the page somewhere would probably bring you in a bit of extra monthly cash.
I went to find out how much a single ad click is worth, but unfortunately failed to find out.
I had heard a click was worth a few cents, so if 5% of your viewers clicked on an ad, you might make a few extra hundred a month,
might cover your web costs, and get
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"Free does not work long term".
What I mean is complex, and it includes many different factors. First off, living and existing requires money: for food, shelter, power, and security. There's no avoiding it.
Quite true.
That said, for most artists and content creators making great work, they do need cash in order to continue to spend their time making high quality content.
That said, for most artists and content creators making great work, they do need [food, shelter, power, and security] in order to continue to spend their time making high quality content.
There, I fixed that for you. And now, I am going to level with you. Food is cheap. One-thousand farmers, ranchers, packagers, distributors, and supermarket clerks can supply 1,000,000 people with a years worth of adequate food to live. Shelter is cheap. The only reason real estate costs so much is bec
You've become cynical (Score:2)
However there's an awful lot of long term volunteer work that goes on, and while you could argue recognition is a motivation, often the recognition is meagre. For example I belong to a model builders society which operates a large club for a wide variety of remote control vehicles. I'm involved with the model aircraft and the gentleman who's been the representative for that section of the club and
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The RIAA performs a valuable function for those who don't want to get into the financial stuff of profitiong from music. But since they're abusing their position, the value of their services is going down and down and down everyday.
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On the other hand we are off to a fantastic start. The software to do pro level recording is free. The hardware interfaces to do high quality multi-track recording are down in price. The Behringer U-Control series is quality at a bargain basement price if you only need CD or 48KHZ 16 bit quality.
http://www.pcconnection.com/IPA/Shop/Product/Detail.htm?sku=7866464 [pcconnection.com] CD quality for under $50! Works out of the box in
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Thieves... (Score:5, Funny)
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I was at the C
Re:Thieves... (Score:4, Interesting)
But then I remembered that regular people are not supposed to be able to author their own BLU-RAY discs, [campaignhd.com] which sounds pretty damn close to the previous posters parody.
Material can be written beforehand (Score:2, Informative)
Nope. You don't have to write the material in the month of February, only record it in February.
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I noted that although their web site says "thousands of musicians from around the world will take up the challenge to write and record an album of original music during the shortest month of the year,"
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Maybe you could write out your themes in advance, you know, in an 'I-like-this-but-I-don't-like-that' kind of way?
I like to pick out other people's songs in advance for inspiration, but when I sit down to write, I like to play with sounds and see where they
What the RIAA does (Score:5, Interesting)
TV shows like American Idol reveal the fact that a substantial number of people can sing really, really well. They can find hundreds of talented people easily, so you can imagine how many more are out there that either don't try out, are not within the age range they are seeking, or are simply not shown on TV. If you figure one out of every 3000 people can sing really well, then that's 100,000 really good singers in the USA alone. The job of the recording industry is to pick out a handful that fits whatever mold they are currently using, and will agree to whatever contract they put in front of them.
Of course it is possible to record music without the industry. However no-one will know about your music (unless you happen to rise about the noise of the internet, like Esmee Denters did on YouTube with her home-made webcam videos).
Dan East
Re:What the RIAA does (Score:4, Insightful)
To be fair, there are plenty of plenty of member labels that put out some great music. Rhino and Decca,for instance, are both RIAA members and there are plenty more that shed light on undiscovered artists that deserve a wider audience. It's unfortunate that everyone thinks RIAA==Britney Spears. The music industry is as varied as the computer industry. Sure you've got your Dell and Apple, but there are plenty of smaller players (and some big ones)that make moves and money. Of course it's easier to just denounce everything RIAA as evil. Nuanced opinions are usually modded down in these discussions.
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Access to retail (Score:3, Informative)
Want to get your CD in Wal-Mart, Target, or any other large meatspace retailer? You've got to play ball with the RIAA content cartel.
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Sorry but you lost me right there. American Idiot (and all the new international variants thereof) prove the people who think they can sing should mostly stick to karaoke bars.
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And AFAIK, Timberland is a clothing company, while Timbaland is a pop artist. How I came to that conclusion is sort of a consequence of being forced to co-exist with industry-brainwashed college students on a regular basis.
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Great songwriters end up with their works unsung, great singers don't get a chance to share their gift, and the Pussycat Dolls don't get to bounce up and down on stage for teenage boys.
All Joking Aside... (Score:3, Interesting)
I remember hearing (no idea how accurate, but it makes sense) that something like 10 CDs are released every day in the US (never mind how much is released only digitally). The obstacle facing the indie artist is not how to make the music and not how to get it to a fan (paying or otherwise) but how to get people to pay attention. This is the biggest thing that MySpace (personally, I hate it and it's probably not necessary to link to) and outfits like CDBaby http://www.cdbaby.com/ [cdbaby.com] have done for musicians: given fans an easy way to peruse music and find new artists in an enjoyable fashion.
Hopefully, this will have a similar effect. However, any meaningful discussion about kicking the recording industry in it's posterior side ought to focus on how this makes it easy for new fans to connect with an artist (mostly), and not just how easy or free it makes getting said music to said fan.
CDBaby rocks (Score:2)
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Some unfortunate realities also need to change (Score:4, Interesting)
And what will it take to make a shift away from the already controlled "top-40" format? Convincing the independent radio stations to play something other than top-40 for their genre. Are there any independent radio stations left? Aren't they all owned by Clear Channel now? Possibly not ALL but clearly, Clear Channel is now such a major power that they will be hard to resist when they put up a fight.
So the reality is we have a kind of locked-in system such that "big media" has locked out the little and independent guys.
It will be a difficult road to travel trying to over-throw the current locked-in system, but it's win-able. Using current media will not do the trick though. It has to be fought where the playing field is still rather level. The public Internet.
So how can it be done? Get with the wide variety of Asian hardware makers to create a flood of internet-ready media players free of any DRM. Set up a wide variety of "pod-cast" programming sites (Internet Independent Stations) sourcing from the wide variety of independent media contributed to those sites by the artists and/or owners of the material. Then daily, people can "tune" into their favorite station(s) of the day or of the week to download their new play lists and listen to fresh new quality stuff every day instead of listening to the radio.
Radio is convenient, but the quality is low and everyone knows it. This is why satellite radio is still growing in popularity -- better content control and much more variety... something you're not going to get from the current locked-in system that exists on terrestrial radio.
These internet-based pod-stations will get by any restrictions or resistance people might have about satellite radio as the devices they select will be their own and have use in ways other than internet pod-cast downloads.
This is a very workable strategy considering how eager these Asian manufacturers are to sell their stuff. We have a tremendous demand for such gear in the US as well if the iPod's popularity is any indicator. Further, as I witness the popularity of "internet radio" in offices across the U.S., a system that behaves similarly would be rather popular as far as I can tell.
There's a huge, untapped area of media just waiting for the consumer public if some enterprising folks were willing to put the risk out there to give it a try. There's a lot of willingness on the consumer end and a lot of willingness for independent operators and independent artists as well. We just need a little unified interest to make it happen.
You can't (Score:2, Insightful)
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Another good source: (Score:5, Informative)
...and the new (non-commercial) kid (Score:2, Informative)
http://alonetone.com/ [alonetone.com]
(disclaimer: i made this app!)
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http://last.fm/ [last.fm] is also a great source for discovering music.
Something like labels will exist for a good while (Score:5, Insightful)
And internet distribution isn't really that new anymore. That's also been happening to some degree since the late 90s, and it obviously had gathered considerable momentum by 3-4 years ago. We're not at the end of that trend, but once wireless data service becomes ubiquitous, it's pretty safe to say the old distribution channels (record stores & FM radio) will be outmatched.
But there's still going to be a significant distribution challenge, and that's marketing. If anything, I think it's possible it will get harder. I kindof wish I'd gotten myself together and produced something high quality about 3 years ago, because I think someday, people are going to look at 2000-2005 as the easiest period for an indie artist to get attention, just like 1997-2001 was the easiest period to get a start as a high profile blogger. The wide net of participants increasingly means greater competition for attention.
Some people will be willing and able to pay for people to help them get it. Something like a label will exist for that purpose for a long time.
Re:Something like labels will exist for a good whi (Score:2)
Label-free production isn't a new thing -- we're probably at least a decade into the era where anybody could pick up the basic tools to produce an acceptable quality album for less than $3000, and really, that would have even bought you enough time in some conventional studios to have them do it.
You make some great points. However, back in the 80s we did all sorts of label-free production on 2, 4, and 8 tracks (magnetic media) which we could distribute (in a grass roots sort of way) on our own with very modest budgets. I know what you are going to say: "but they all sounded like crap." But they really didn't sound that bad. Even in our living room, we put a lot of energy into the mechanics of placing microphones and other modest production details. The results were often quite good. I do som
Slashdot spin (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems to me it's more about just giving people a goal and a deadline - a cure for procrastination and all the other stuff that gets in the way of finishing things.
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2007 torrent? (Score:3, Interesting)
What? No way. (Score:5, Insightful)
I do a lot of music composition and production, myself. I spent $2500 this year on a new mac pro, upgrades to the latest versions of Digital Performer, Native Instruments Kontakt, EWQLSO Gold. I bought a bearbones Digidesign interface for $400, own a $1500 synthesizer, and two $100 microphones, and I'm NOWHERE NEAR capable of producing a rock/pop album. For that, I'd need to spend another $1000 on a 8-channel audio interface, $400 in decent overhead mics for drums, and probably a few more SM57s. On top of that, a good set of mixing plugins for my DAW (like Waves), is a good $800. To build a recording studio capable of providing even the most MINIMAL of recording environments is upwards $8000, and that's with cutting a lot of corners.
No, while I have the potential to record and produce keys, guitars, and vocals, I'm taking drums to a studio, where I'm going to pay a couple $100 an hour.
And then you ask me to give it away? Fuck you. That's not "free", that's negative. Even to do music for the joy of it, money's gotta come from somewhere.
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I think the common Slashdot perception is that you, and others like you, are expected to release your stuff for free, and then simply go on tour to recoup your costs and pay for your investment of time. Musicians who can't or won't play live apparently have no place in the new musical utopia.
I'm all for a future market in which there's less reliance on record companies that provide A to Z services -- in fact, I'm helping create it. But for far many people, information just wants to be freeeeeeeee, and in
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Try to sell your music online? Good luck being found and cared about.
Get a record deal? Have fun with the paperwork.
Personally, I've done all the hard work, spent the money AND given my music away for the last 8 years. And I'm satisfied. Not rich, not famous, but hey, not frustrated. I wish the situation was better, but you got to stand up and make it better - not stand up and complain
That is why I even built a site to help other artists do the same as me: http://alo [alonetone.com]
Dont waste your breath (Re:What? No way.) (Score:2)
Your typical ./'r just doesn't get it, nor do they care. They just want to be able to download or rip whatever they want, whenever they want and do whatever they want with anyones work, no matter how hard the person had to work to create it, no matter how much time it took them and lets face it, time = money, or chicken, bread, soup, laundry detergent, orthodontist appointments, light & heating bills or whatever.
I think your estimate is a bit low though, I would say to come up with a decent ( very sm
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So don't participate. No one's forcing you.
Incidentally, there's a reason it's called a challenge. Lots of people will take this opportunity to get past the excuses and actually put something out there.
And guess what... we'll soon be actually listening to their music, and we won't be listening to yours.
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7/10 - Nice troll, would feed again (Score:5, Funny)
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1) You don't have to give away the album, just give 1 copy on a CD-R to the organisers if you want them to use their bandwidth to give your music exposure on their jukebox. You are free t
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These guys [triplejunearthed.com] did and do. There is no competition involved, they just want their music to be out there. Hey, they don't even have to pay for hosting, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation [abc.net.au] does.
Stream away. Better still, visit Triple J [triplej.net.au] or even the catch of the day [abc.net.au], where they've even found the best stuff for you.
There's also an annual "Triple J Unearthed CD" which is a compiliation of the top ten listeners' choices for the year. Unearthed #4 contains (track 3) Relapse by Endorphin [01-mp3search.com]. I loved it the moment
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Here's the thing, what if you forgot about all that. What if you just used a 15-year old casette recorder and sang into it for about half an hour. Just for the sake of hypothesis. There are plenty of singers who could make that worth listening to. Imagine if we had tapes like that from Elvis' early days? They'd be worth a fortune.
Of course, if you're going to do it 'properly' and by the book, making an album is a hell of a job. But you can get around it. By working with what you've got, you're challengin
Artistic pretension (Score:3, Interesting)
The Musico-Idolatry Complex is a perversion.
It's the artist's prerogative to go to great personal sacrifice, debt, and even bankruptcy to make a work of art. It's the artist's prerogative to do so knowing that no one wa
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The DEB Challenge (Score:4, Funny)
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That would be a rather apt title.
No audience right now (Score:2)
Increasingly all the people interested in music actually make and play music as opposed to being purely consumers. This is probably good, was inevitable, and makes it harder and harder to stand out. Technology has made music much easier to make: tuners, protools, midi whatever - this is the (middle of?) the age of sound sculpture. The sound of lab rats
Loads of free content is cool but... (Score:5, Interesting)
To some degree, this is all true. There's a lot of stuff out there, and most artists can find some fans. But in the end it hasn't practially changed much: being in an internet band is about as important as being in a high-school band. The difference is that the 100 people that love you can now be spread across the world instead of just the town.
I think that most listeners really don't want better stuff (even by their own standards): they'd rather listen to stuff that their friends listen to. It's fun to be into popular music, and that's what most people do. They seek out popular music so that they can feel like they're part of something. I don't intend this as a put-down: they just want to enjoy life and I'll admit it's usually more fun to be into an okay-by-me-but-super-popular song than a more-to-your-liking-but-generally-unknown song. Because you can talk about it and play it at parties and people love it. Social interactions matter to music.
Even people like myself, who are drawn to listen to less popular music -- there's just so much stuff I don't feel I need any more. I get all the media I can handle already. So overall as an artist I'm sort of accepting that the way the world functions doesn't financially support all the musical artists who want to be. It doesn't even support all the musical artists who could qualify as great. There's a lot of great artists out there, and only enough opportunity for a tiny fraction of them.
It's kind of a let down, but I'm getting used to it. In the end, you can always make stuff you like, and probably find a few fans. You just won't be able to quit your day job.
Cheers.
PS - this is not based on lack of acceptance of my own musical endeavors, which are admittedly (and intentionally) dumb shit, but rather based on observing other artists
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I think you'll find that among younger listeners, if one finds something really good, they still have friends, they still share it, and being the one to "discover" a new band with your friends is still a social event prized by many.
But just bec
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I'm a horrible at judging music the first time I listen to it. I usually don't like anything new. Then it grows on you.
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While there's an element of truth to this, it's also way overstating the issue. "Like a Virgin" will be awful, simplistic tripe no matter how times I hear it, while I often really enjoy new
Well I gave it a fair listen and... (Score:2)
For the most part it was just bad to mediocre.
Now I must confess there were some bright spots, but they were far and away the exception.
Mostly is was all badly mixed / mastered. The vocals were muddy and buried. When instruments took solos they tended to be either punched up WAY to much to the point that they were completely out of context, or not at all and the talent was lost in the background noise. Again this is bad recording engineering and thats why well recorded music that really represents what
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Rolls Eyes
Yes actually I sampled my way through A-Z, mostly focusing on the types of music that I prefer but I did listen to every categorized type and quite a few of the "undefinable" ( self proclaimed ). My sampling took me focused uninterrupted time. Obviously I did not listen to every song, from every album, but I did give it a fair listen.
I am sure I will return there to give the afore mentioned "bright Spots" more time, and search about a bit more, but my overall impression of the quality of the wo
The Problem with the Music Industry. . . (Score:5, Insightful)
As a musician I'm not particularly happy about the state of the music industry but the only thing I can hope for is that the majority of guitarist in the U.S. keel over a die for no apparent reason. As long as there are guys playing at the bar who are better than me who can't become rock stars I'll have no great expectations. I'll have succeeded when I'm the bar star, when I get paid a couple hundred bucks to play a bar. As a musician, that hundred bucks for a night says more about my music than the millions a night I'd make if I played sold out arenas singing whiney music about my libido to teeny boppers. And really, there's nothing wrong with that. So I'll always have to have a day job, but in no way does that compromise my artistic integrity. Most rennaissance painters never became famous and the ones that did usually remained close to anonymous throughout their own lifetime. It's not like being famous validates the work; if any artist feels that way then their art has failed before even started. I guess it sucks that no one will pay me millions for playing music, but at the same time the whole rock star thing is a bit ridiculous. No one expects to get rich painting - artists who get paid make logos, storyboards, and marketing materials. That doesn't mean the canvas art "industry" is in a sorry state - it's just evolved past being special and is now commodity.
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Not quite what the RPM challenge is about..... (Score:2, Interesting)
There IS a web site that encourages writing an album in a month - and it FAWM.org (February Album Writing Month). The RPM challenge took this as inspiration and set up in the same month with slightly different criteria and has been better publicised. For it's first two years, RPMchallenge.com paid tribute to FAWM.org but now seems to be big enough and arrogan
I'm going to give this a try (Score:2)
Here is my RPM Profile [rpmchallenge.com].
All of my current music is Creative Commons-licensed. All the new material will be too.
Quantity != Quality (Score:2)
Seriously, amateur musicians are recording this much all the time. This motley collection just demonstrates how much and why they're amateurs.
Re:Massive Copyright Infringement? Speed Racer Ste (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Cool (Score:5, Insightful)
One: Yes, the RIAA is full-blown evil, and its disappearance can only be a good thing, not only for those being unfairly persecuted by it (whom these days seem to be anyone who's even heard a song they don't own while riding a friend's car), but also (even if they don't realize it yet) for the record labels themselves. The sooner they try to adapt to the changing marketplace instead of trying to plug an iceberg tear with sellotape, the better for everyone involved.
Two: However, art is not interchangeable in the same way software can be. I can say "Microsoft isn't needed anymore" because there are alternatives that perform the same functions, and often better and cheaper (or even free), but I can't say "Artist X isn't needed anymore". Because art (music in this case) doesn't merely "perform" a "function". Not good music, anyway.
One of my favorite bands ever is Gyllene Tider, from Sweden. I can barely understand half the lyrics, but their melodies are pure gold. A friend, while listening to them, mentioned a couple bands who sound kinda like them. "Why would you listen to songs you can't understand? If it's bouncy pop you want, you can get it in English". I was dumbstruck by the idea, even though I routinely tell friends "Why would you use expensive software that's broken half the time? I can install Linux for you in half an hour".
Free Art isn't like Free Software in that every artistic expression is unique. That particular expression may suck, but it's unique in its suckitude. And if you like one particular form of art, or a particular artist, there's no "switching" the way there is for software. So initiatives like this, while cool as hell, are not a way to "replace" anything. I can't imagine making a point of listening to stuff solely because it agrees with me ideologically, the same way I wouldn't drop the Star Wars films in favor of stuff like the Revelations fan film.
Of course, I may have just misread your point and am rambling on needlessly, but I just thought I'd throw it out there.
Re:Cool (Score:4, Insightful)
But an artist can switch labels.
Do we need the RIAA? No.
Do artists need the RIAA? No.
So we can do fine without RIAA. The artist needs an audience and the audience needs an artist. Problem solved.
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Both statements ignore their own audience.
In your case you'd replace broken software with cheaper (free) broken software that includes certain rights/freedoms the other didn't have but which most users won't directly benefi
Yes and No? (Score:2)
I agree but we only have 24 hours in a day each. It may be possible to find enough that we like in the artistic dimension that we also like from a community point of view.
If we find enough to fill our time, it may make no practical difference. Time will tell.
all the best,
drew
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That's cool, and I wish a lot more labels were like that. But your brother should realise a couple of things:
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That's a bit of a stretch.
all the best,
drew
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And the ignorance that comes with their "instant hot trax". I get annoyed when someone thinks they've created music by arranging loops on a grid tries to denigr
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From TFA, "...a testament to what can be done by independent musicians [sic] without a label [sic], without the RIAA, and often without a professional studio [sic].
Ah, good luck in your quest. I suspect Sturgeon's Law applies here... in force.
(Actually, start with the best 10%, and then apply Sturgeon's Law to that.)
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