Geek Wins Copyright Lawsuit Against Corporation 616
Chris Gregerson writes "I work as a stock photographer/web developer. I saw a photo of mine used in Vilana Financial's full-page phone book ad. They wouldn't pay the licensing fee, and I wrote about it online (mirror). They sued me for defamation, producing a sales agreement signed by one ' Michael Zubitskiy' (who they said took the photo and sold the rights to them). I sued them for copyright infringement, and they added claims against me for trademark infringement, deceptive trade practices, and tortuous interference. There was a trial I'll long remember on the 5th of November, and the judge recently issued her verdict (PDF; mirror). She ruled Vilana Financial forged the sales agreement and willfully infringed my photos, and awarded me $19,462. All claims against me were denied. I represented myself during the litigation."
Well done! (Score:5, Insightful)
People like to dis the "IANAL" posters here, but I have found that a little bit of amateur legal knowledge, even stuff picked up from Judge Judy and the intarweb, can take you a long way in life. At a minimum you should know the basics of how contracts are enforced, what kind of evidence is acceptable in court, and how not to piss of a judge. Common sense will get you most of the way, but you need to know just a bit about the lingo and the process.
THis is Good, but file sharing is Good too? (Score:4, Insightful)
So ripping off a stock photo is Bad and this guy did good by pushing for his rights and winning.
But pirating copyright music via p2p etc is OK because nobody got hurt right.
ENOCOMPUTE
Re:THis is Good, but file sharing is Good too? (Score:5, Informative)
There is more than one person posting here.
So ripping off a stock photo is Bad and this guy did good by pushing for his rights and winning.
Yes. And more importantly, without a lawyer. IMHO that alone makes it a respectable achievement, regardless of how I might feel about this particular law.
But pirating copyright music via p2p etc is OK because nobody got hurt right.
Not the same thing. This company used his images for profit. What would have been analogous to file sharing might be if the defendant had photocopied the image, put it on his wall for his own personal enjoyment, and given some copies to friends for the same purpose.
Conversely, there does not seem to be much sympathy for people who _sell_ pirated songs or attempt to use them for some purely commercial purpose.
Re:THis is Good, but file sharing is Good too? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:THis is Good, but file sharing is Good too? (Score:4, Funny)
(the other two laws shouldn't even be referred to much less talked about)
Re:THis is Good, but file sharing is Good too? (Score:5, Interesting)
What part of "copy" in "copyright" do you not understand? There is all the difference in the world between a copy of a file and a hyperlink. At least Sweden has had the common sense to understand that, although who knows when they'll buckle to the *AAs.
OTOH you're in good company with the plaintiffs in the 2600 DeCSS case [wikipedia.org], which I still find to be one of the most disappointing court decisions of modern times. "In particular the Second Circuit ruled that linking on the Internet...could be restrained in ways that might not be constitutional for traditional media" which is why it was perfectly fine for the NYT to print the hyperlink (which it did). So if thepiratebay printed a monthly magazine of torrent hyperlinks, that apparently would be legal even in the U.S. And possibly even if they displayed the links on their website with no "HREF" around them - would that make you happier? Or are you for censorship of non-copyrighted information as well?
Re:THis is Good, but file sharing is Good too? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:THis is Good, but file sharing is Good too? (Score:4, Interesting)
Just so the less technically savvy people who don't get the joke don't get confused: a compressed image file can be opened as many times as you'd like without losing any quality. It's only when editing and recompressing the image do you take the detail hit.
So don't be afraid to run those slideshows of your kids on your desktop. Go ahead and print out as many copies as you like. As long as you're not doing touchup work after every iteration, you're cool.
Re:THis is Good, but file sharing is Good too? (Score:5, Insightful)
Emotional arguments aside, there are some real issues with the way recording companies operate.
Also, there's a significant difference between downloading a song for free and listening to it on your mp3 player and downloading a song by an unsigned artist for free, and then using it on a TV or radio ad, and then trying to claim that the artist sold you the rights when you're queried on it.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:THis is Good, but file sharing is Good too? (Score:5, Insightful)
When I (hypothetically) download an MP3 from, say, U2... and then go use it to sell stuff with. U2 comes around and (nicely) confronts me, and offers to allow me to pay for what I've used . I refuse, state U2 didn't actually write the song, and produce the (forged) recording-studio paperwork to 'prove it'.
Meanwhile, U2 is actually the damn band that recorded the thing.
Work on your reading comprehension, or turn down your assume-o-meter and/or jump-to-conclusion-ometer.
Re:THis is Good, but file sharing is Good too? (Score:5, Informative)
do you claim to own the rights to your briteny spears mp3 collection?
they didn't just rip off his work, they claimed to own the copyright on it as well. your missing the point we make time and time on here again as well - RIAA aren't content creators like this guy, they are business thieves that take the majority of the artists cut and sue their fans.
Re:THis is Good, but file sharing is Good too? (Score:5, Insightful)
The offending company in this case used the copyrighted material FOR PROFIT. For the direct financial benefit of their company. And they WILLFULLY removed the copyright and digital watermak. Then the forged a notarized document and lied about it under oath.
If you did soemthing similar with your MP3 collection I'd almost be tempted to help the mafiaa track you ass down. Similies and comparisons almost always fall short on
It would be like downloading every metallica song, making a compilation CD and removing the copyright, attributing the music to another band and then using it as a promotional give-away as part of an advertizing campaign for your company. If you do that, then yes. You should suffer court appointed damages. Note this judge awarded about 20,000 USD. That, i feel is appropriate given the blatant copyright violation and commercial use. What I don't think is appropriate is 150,000 USD for downloading a song of P2P for solely personal use that the MAFIAA demand. Note they don't go for 'up to' 150k, they demand EXACTLY 150K.
So comments about how useless or simple or stupid or ugly his photos are
Re:Well done! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Well done! (Score:5, Insightful)
taking a photo of a cityscape is hardly a skill.
If the photo had no value, then they wouldn't have felt like using it. There are lots of bad cityscapes; producing a decent one requires at least some skill -- and there is certainly labor involved in taking the time to do it. Your lack of appreciation does not mean there is no skill, or that the photo has no value.
Re:Well done! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Well done! (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not sure what the solution is, but in this case I initially sued in small claims court based on contract law and the "terms of use" of my website (which required a licensing fee for use of the photo). My claim was denied because it necessarily involved copyright, and I was told I had no recourse under contract law -- only copyright law, and only in federal court. I disagree, but there you have it.
And yes, there is a flood of images nowadays, but the skyline in this case is from a vantage point other's haven't duplicated. I provide high-res files 24/7, technical support on image format and resolution, and I shoot on speculation -- I add as much value as I can and rely on copyright as little as possible.
Re:Well done! (Score:4, Insightful)
If the photo was that worthless, why did they use it? They chose it because it made their ad look good and professional and hopefully therefore would attract paying clients.
Seems like the photo isn't worthless after all. If it were, a different one would have been used instead.
Re:Well done! (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm not really seeing a lot of difference between one and two with the exception that you seem to think that by allowing people to view copyrighted images on the web the photographer has somehow given up all rights to those images. There are plenty of places where you can find free or very low-cost royalty-free images for commercial use. I don't see why it's unreasonable to expect to be paid for your work, especially if someone else is making a profit off of its use.
Uh, why should you be able to just take any picture off the web and use it for commercial use (i.e. advertising) that makes you money and not pay the artist whose work you're benefiting from? He's not charging you to look at the photos, he's charging you if you're going to use them. This seems a prefectly reasonable use of copyright.
As long as you have a valid license contract, you pay the artist, and you don't violate the terms of the license agreement there would be no grounds to sue.
Again, what do you have against artists making money off their work? The photographer in this case didn't exactly go scouring the world for copyright infringement. The defendant in this case used the photo in an inside cover ad on a phonebook in the same city where the photographer lives. It's not as if the website they took it from doesn't make it very clear the image requires a license agreement for use. The damages awarded here are for punitive purposes to prevent people from just using the photos until they get caught and have to only pay the original price.
Clearly he was offering something they wanted or they wouldn't have used it. There are plenty of places to find free or cheap royalty-free images on the internet that would've avoided this whole issue.
Re:Well done! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Well done! (Score:4, Insightful)
(I personally support copyright and would go after anyone who infringed my copyright, too, but I'm saying I support the idea of disagreeing and going through channels if you're convinced that the law is wrong. What I don't approve of is how the RIAA and MPAA are making a mockery of what copyright was meant to be).
What????? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Well done! (Score:5, Insightful)
The sad fact is that after a few days, most cases are sent to the bottom of the pile. Not due to lack of evidence, but due to lack of funds.
Re:Well done! (Score:5, Interesting)
Way back when (say 1979 or 1980) when I was in High School, I took a forensic evidence internship at John Jay college in NYC. Intereesting class with LOTS of stories, but I can still remember one evening in the lab, when it got hot, and most of the guys in the class took off their sports jackets (I had never really thought about WHY everyone wore a sports jacket to class). About 3/4s of the class were police officers furthering their education, and they were all carrying under their jackets. I think there were about 3 of us in the room who were NOT visibly carrying a firearm that night. Me? Because I can't - the other 2, who knows.
So I think you'll find that a lot of the forensic "geeks" out there are/were actual patrol officers at one time
Re:Well done! (Score:5, Interesting)
As someone who trained for a year to become a Lawyer, I find Law and Order to be at least partially gratifying for the way things are put down in the show. It's not entirely accurate but it's not entirely inaccurate as well. The same applies to CSI or Numb3rs... nobody likes to sit by the geeky things so sure it's not all canon, but it puts the right spin on things.
Note I used to date a forensic scientist for the Australian police, watching a show like that with her was like listening to Bill Gates tell me how awesome Linux is ("that's not right!", "we can't do that!!!", "BULLLLLSHIT!" etc.).
My $0.02 AU, Ignore at will
Re:Well done! (Score:4, Informative)
Numb3rs' equations are generally appropriate to task, at least insofar as I can follow them. The equipment they use on CSI does by and large exist, even if it's much rarer and considerably less slick than they make out. Law & Order usually references at least halfway appropriate legal doctrine, and House is at least usually (not always, but usually) fact-checked/consulted to the point of distant plausibility, even if they do often represent extremely rare situations or exaggerations as predictable lifesavers.
As for the rest, I'm OK chalking it up to dramatic device. Sometimes I'll see something headslap-worthy (normally something computery, given my usual focus) but I can generally maintain some level of distance from reality. All fiction takes shortcuts.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Some of the lawyers I know have told me that some of the things they pull on Law and Order would either be disallowed or be grounds for appeal. Following advice you learn on TV is generally a bad idea.
I'm going to state again that I don't mind fiction taking shortcuts. CSI, NCIS and Numb3rs are my favourite shows on TV I enjoy watching them and being entertained.. you just won't see me attempting to treat any of them like an instru
Re:Well done! (Score:5, Interesting)
Sure, they dramatize the whole thing, and you don't watch code-monkeys plugging away at computers for hours at a time, but the math itself is quite solid and the data input and extrapolations based on that math are based in reality.
Re:Well done! (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Well done! (Score:4, Interesting)
The last time I used a lawyer, also on an "open-and-shut" case, he lost the case for me (I suspect because he was juggling too many cases). I dedicated myself to this ONE case, lived and breathed it for two years, and came up with better points of law than the side opposing me. I worked harder to make up for my lack of experience.
I'm generally against suing for libel or defamation, as I consider it "feeding the trolls", but I posted below about the possibility of future damages for the other side's fraud in this case.
Good! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Good! (Score:5, Interesting)
The photographer represented himself, so he didn't pay any lawyers.
The defendants took the money that they saved by not paying the photographer in the first place and spent it on lawyers. Then they got to pay the photographer anyway. I love it when business plans have to take regular people into account.
Picture (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Picture (Score:4, Funny)
$19,462 (Score:3, Insightful)
You are a shining example of the fact that there is an exception to every rule. Good job!!!
Re:$19,462 (Score:5, Insightful)
If he had had a lawyer, he would have:
a) Been awarded a lot more money
b) Stuck the defendants with attorney's fees
Re:$19,462 (Score:4, Funny)
He tried sticking the defendant with attorney fees, but it was denied on the bases that he was representing himself.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Attorney's fees are for attorneys. They reimburse for out-of-pocket expenses, not for opportunity cost. That, again, is part of the award of damages. He chose to pursue this, calculating that his award would make it worth his time. He chose not to use attorneys, calculating that he'd fare better without those bills.
He was right on the former, but it turns out he was wrong on the latter. But he never bore the r
Re:$19,462 (Score:5, Insightful)
Just because the company infringing on his work was an asshat about it doesn't mean the photographer has to be. To do so would make him just like the RIAA we all despise. He got way more money than he lost from the infringement as it is; I'm certain stock photo rights do not amount anywhere close to $19,462. He only got that much because he had to go through all the BS to get what he deserved in the first place, and I'm sure he's more than satisfied with the award given. That "get more money and stick 'em with attorney fees" thing sounds downright malicious to me. Isn't it enough that the company was held liable for their use of the photograph in the first place? Nope, we gotta teach those bastards a lesson.
It wouldn't seem like such a good idea to you folks if you got sued, lost, and had to pay the awarded judgment, attorney's fees for yourself AND for the party suing you. Of course, you aren't an infringer of copyright, are you? Of course you're not.
The copyright holder wins (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
They sued me for defamation, producing a sales agreement signed by one ' Michael Zubitskiy' (who they said took the photo and sold the rights to them). I sued them for copyright infringement, and they added claims against me for trademark infringement, deceptive trade practices, and tortuous interference.
The story here is that the defendant tried to pull some hard-core legalistic intimidation bullshit in response to the original lawsuit, and the plaintiff still stood his ground and pushed forward.
Re:The copyright holder wins (Score:5, Insightful)
Nevertheless, if the story were in essence reversed and it was about a faceless company suing an unrepresented guy and getting a hefty award of damages for some relatively minor IP infringement, we'd get a bunch of bearded geek hippies rambling on about how "information wants to be free" and "I don't believe in imaginary property" and so on.
Not disagreeing that this is a good outcome, or with the bearded geek hippies per se. Just sayin'.
Re:The copyright holder wins (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The copyright holder wins (Score:4, Insightful)
Bullshit. (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you seriously think that if a geek used a company's photo without a license & when caught, fraudulently filed suit for defamation, following it up with trademark infringement, deceptive trade practices, and tortuous interference, that geek hippies would equate this with information wanting to be free?
Seriously? Or perhaps you were just wanting to have a pathetic little dig at your perception of slashdot groupthink.
Grab their profits too? (Score:4, Interesting)
Now that you've won spectacularly, is it possible to pursue those damages?
Also, this caught my attention: "However, Vilenchik's deposition testimony was that Zubitskiy called him at the following number: 612-963-2900. What would make this phone number particularly easy to recall eludes the Court."
Assuming that 612 is the local area code and doesn't need to be memorized, the rest of the number is quite easy. 963... geometrically, it makes a nice line up the right side of the keypad, and the 2900 is trivial to remember as well. Perhaps 29 has some special significance and, even if not, how hard is it to remember that? Regardless, the rest of the defendant's is basically BS anyways but that point stuck out as being not implausible.
Re:Grab their profits too? (Score:4, Funny)
A victory is a victory. No need to be extreme.
(If only corporations and governments would follow that mentality
Re:Grab their profits too? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Grab their profits too? (Score:5, Informative)
FYI: I researched claims for infringer's profits in cases where a photo was used in an advertisement. I found that precedent requires the Plaintiff produce actual customers who testify the photo caused them (at least in part) to become customers (you can then get a small percentage of the infringer's profits). I thought that might incur more investigation and deposition costs than it was worth, and was otherwise busy trying to uncover the other side's fraud.
Slow News Day? (Score:4, Insightful)
Also it strikes me as a mistake not to hire an attorney in a case like this. Almost certainly you could recover attorney's fees and it just seems silly to risk getting blindsided by some legal rule you didn't know about. The courts do give pro se litigants extra room but why take the risk?
Re:Slow News Day? (Score:4, Insightful)
Because he wants to gloat, and because slashdot loves a david geek vs goliath megacorp fairytale ending.
- Most people who represent themselves end up in a mess because they don't know or understand procedure or the relevant case law.
- Most of the time, large companies get away with this sort of behaviour.
Truth is an absolute defense to libel (Score:4, Insightful)
The defendants tried a counterclaim for defamation. The court commented:
...
Similarly, the statement that Defendants were suspected of fraud and forgery was a true statement of fact reflecting Plaintiff's belief that Defendants fabricated Zubitskiy and forged his signature on the 3/19/04 Agreement, which was also fraudulently notarized. Accordingly, Plaintiff did not engage in deceptive trade practices in violation of Minn. Stat. 325D.44,
Defendants' counterclaims against Plaintiff are DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE.
Reading the decision, it's clear what the judge thought of the defendants. They tried forging a notarized document. They couldn't produce the person whom they claimed took the picture. From then on, it was all downhill for the defendants.
You're Very Lucky, and Don't Try That Again (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not a lawyer. I know when to use one.
Bruce
Re:You're Very Lucky, and Don't Try That Again (Score:5, Informative)
The judge absolutely did NOT help me, and I didn't have the money for an attorney (they sued me for defamation first, so I had no choice but to litigate).
I may have been lucky, but I prevailed because I worked hard for two years and persisted. I worked much harder that the other side, and knew more about this area of law than their attorneys.
I will agree with you I should issue a disclaimer "Don't try this yourself". There are plenty of pro-se litigants who don't know what they are doing, a few who do, and I suspect that won't change.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Bruce
Re:Rock and Hard Place (Score:5, Informative)
I basically agree, but want to point out I also got to keep my grip webpage up (they sought an injunction against it). I shouldn't have had to go through this, but I figured the outcome might deter other bullies who want to silence online critics.
Watermark removed? (Score:3, Interesting)
Is it really worth the effort to do that? I could go out and take some decent photos for less effort than it would take me to get those watermarks off. Maybe that's just because I know more about photography than unscrupulous image processing.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, that is exactly what happened. I learned other lessons, many of which I will probably not share outside my family or I will seem cynical. I believe the verdict was just in this case, and I'm not cynical.
Photographers and IP (Score:5, Interesting)
That being said, I am recently finding myself unable to wrap my brain around how photographers charge for their work and how they can justify their business model.
Case in point: I'd like to get my kids' pictures taken. No print ad campaigns or web advertisements, just pictures of my kids, maybe myself and my wife. In the past we've used a place that takes really nice pictures, but they insist that the only way you can get their prints is to purchase print packages from them. I understand they are trying to make back their money invested in the initial sitting, but I can't wrap my head around how they are trying to take an old business model (selling photographic prints) and apply it to this new, digital age. All of their cameras are digital, but they won't sell me the RAW digital files, not for any price. However, they also delete the copies after 90 days, so they take digital pictures, print me out copies, then (presumably) destroy the originals.
Now, I'm by no means a photographic professional, but I know my way around Photoshop, and can think of dozens of things I'd like to do with these pictures, maybe now, maybe 20 years from now, I don't know. What I'd really like is a photographer whom I could pay for his/her time and the use of their equipment to produce pictures that I can do whatever the hell I want with. I've called around and can't find anyone who operates in such a way. The photographers I talked to all said I was nuts to be looking for such a service, because they were unwilling to enter into an "open ended contract" whereby they lose control over their own work. I don't think it's an unreasonable request. In all honesty, I know how much I spent on the print packages I got in the past, and I'd be willing to pay a premium above and beyond that for such a service. Nobody is losing money, and in fact some photographer could get more of my money for providing less of a service. (i.e. maybe they don't have to print so many prints up front because I know that I can get more printed later somewhere else, or maybe even with them if their work is good and prices are fair.)
I design and install computer systems for a living. People pay for my time. Let's say I set up the network for some small startup operation called "Facebook." (I didn't, purely hypothetical) That operation takes off using the backbone that I set up, becoming one of the fastest growing and most successful business on the Internet. Guess how much of that $15 billion I'd see. (Or expect to see) ZERO. Never mind that it was my genius design that enabled them to do what it was they were trying to do. I went in, did a service, and I was done. Why is photography inherently different?
Re:Photographers and IP (Score:4, Insightful)
One school of thought is that if you hire a photographer to take photos of something that it's an instance of work for hire, which means that the copyright, and therefor the negatives, belong to you(as the person doing the hiring). In this instance you can take the negatives and get as many copies of them made in whatever fashion you like, and do anything you like with them, including sell them to a company for advertising purposes.
This is a relatively sensible view, and you'll find that when most photographers get other photographers to do work for them that this is the kind of deal they insist on getting.
The counter argument you get from photographers(and the idea which many of them base their business model around) is that because what they do is "art", that it cannot be work for hire, and therefor they own the copyright and the only way for you to get reproductions of the work is from them. They tend to charge a rather ridiculous fee for the reproductions(though usually a lower one for the actual photography), and the really sneaky ones won't charge you anything at all since then it's definitely not work for hire.
As a business model it doesn't really work anymore, because most people hold the idea that photographs they've paid someone to take of them and their kids should belong to them, and therefor have absolutely no problems copying them without the consent of the theoretical copy right holder. Add to that the idea of better scanners and it's pretty much a non viable startup which only works because most people are too cheap to pay up front for a photographer who is willing to price themsslves at a rate which makes work for hire profitable.
Regardless however this argument doesn't apply to the case in question as the plaintiff most definitely was not involved in work for hire as he didn't take the photograph at the defendent's request.
Re:Photographers and IP (Score:4, Informative)
Working in print media, I can safely tell you that I've never worked with photographers like this. All commissioned photography is taken under contracts that include all the necessary copyright permissions (we usually but exclusively use "all rights" contracts because we publish online and in print, and online is global) and always, without exception, result in us getting the processed image files in suitable digital form.
Not RAW files though, which you might think you want but you probably don't really. Part of what I expect a photographer to do for me is correct the RAW image and give me a high res JPG or TIFF. He knows better than my production dept what colour correction needs to be done - they can tweak it later but the initial work on the RAW file is part of what I'm paying the photographer for.
So maybe you need to look up some freelance photographers in your area who work with print media and understand what's what. Expect to pay a lot more than you might think - a good photographer, complete with preproduction work and all rights handed over, is probably orders of magnitude more expensive than the family studio on the corner whose business is the low-margin, high volume opposite.
"Must turn over all email..." (Score:5, Insightful)
Magistrate Judge Arthur J. Boylan ruled that Vilana cannot copy my computer hard drives and I don't have to produce email between myself and my attorney. However, I must turn over email with the terms "Vilana", "Vilenchik", "Zubitskiy", "Kazaryan", "Walker", etc. I sent Vilana's attorney a DVD with over 500 emails...they can sift through my private thoughts and feelings about their misconduct as described to my parents, sisters, and friends. Note: at trial in November, 2007, Vilana's attorney actually cross-examined me on these emails, which did not appear to prove anything except my own version of events.
Note to self: if ever thinking of getting involved in litigation, seed potential keywords into an email spam generating engine of some kind. "All emails with terms (keyword)? Certainly - here's 8G of text for you to read..."
Congratulations to Mr. Gregerson. Reading the timeline shows it was a long, hard battle that many would have given up on.
laughable (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:laughable (Score:5, Interesting)
The 19 grand was only for the copyright claims. A claim for the other party's forged evidence would require a separate cause of action (lawsuit), such as for malicious prosecution. That is still a possibility, especially now that a judge ruled they engaged in this misconduct. Damages for that claim would presumably be more.
Dangerous ruling about watermarks (Score:3, Insightful)
Now try actually collecting. (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually making them pony up the cash is the hard part.
Re:Now try actually collecting. (Score:5, Interesting)
The legal system isn't broken (Score:4, Insightful)
No you didn't. (Score:5, Funny)
If I told you what I think you were, this post would be modded down as flamebait.
Mod up, please (Score:5, Insightful)
Whenever the RIAA screams about a geek committing copyright violation and calling it theft, we always go to great lengths to point out that copyright violation is not theft, and it is also not piracy. Those are different things. If they were the same, we wouldn't need a law about copyright violation on the books - it would already be covered.
And while I'm at it, how about if we use this case as an example to use against the RIAA the next time they say a single instance of copyright violation causes millions in damages? $19k sounds about right to me.
Come to think of it, it's too bad this guy couldn't pinch some RIAA lawyers to represent him. With the math they use, he'd be a millionaire.
"Well, we assume about $2000 for the single user licensing rights, and the magazine has a circulation of millions, therefore we seek damages to the tune of two billion dollars."
Dr. Evil pinky is optional at this point.
Re:Mod up, please (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:No you didn't. (Score:5, Insightful)
C//
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Arrrr. Shiver me timbers, and walk the plank, matey.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:No you didn't. (Score:5, Interesting)
I am absolutely not a copyright abolitionist (though I do think terms should be reduced to something more reasonable -- scale of 20 years or so) -- but to argue in the direction that no art would be created without copyright is fallacious. Less art, certainly... but that's a price some people may be willing to pay.
Re:No you didn't. (Score:5, Funny)
The below is taken from dictionary.com
piracy
-noun, plural -cies.
1. practice of a pirate; robbery or illegal violence at sea.
2. the unauthorized reproduction or use of a copyrighted book, recording, television program, patented invention, trademarked product, etc.: The record industry is beset with piracy.
3. Also called stream capture. Geology. diversion of the upper part of one stream by the headward growth of another.
I guess I will go with FSM. So far he has not let me down on the topic of pirates and global warming.
Re:No you didn't. (Score:5, Interesting)
Thus spake Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]:
I've gone along with the party line of "unauthorized copying != piracy" for years, but it looks like we're in the wrong on this one.
Re:No you didn't. (Score:5, Insightful)
This situation is a little bit different from file sharing as well--the entity which comitted the copyright infringement was engaged in commercial (for profit) distribution without permission or restitution, and when asked to rectify the situation, failed to comply and attempted to bludgeon submission out of the copyright holder with legal intimidation.
I guess around here you're more likely to find people saying "get a goddamn rope" when a multi-million dollar corporation shits on the little guy, and "copyright is not theft" when the little guy shits on a multi-million dollar corporation. There isn't a difference of type between the two, but there is a difference in degree. Also, the extent to which a corporation can shit on you vastly exceeds your ability to ruin their day.
I guess what I'm saying is, the sterotyped geek/Slashdot response isn't de facto hypocritical, there's actually a fairly solid rationale behind it. You're welcome to disagree with some of the premises, and even to discuss them, but to pretend that it's idiotic to support this copyright holder while simultaneously using TPB to copy music is really just attacking straw men.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The Slashdot community has this amusing mix of copyright haters and copyright lovers. See, we're supposed to be all geeks, so if someone takes (pardon me, "duplicates") our stuff, it's not longer "copyright is not theft!" but rather "get a goddamn rope!"
C//
Copyright infringement is not theft. This is a civil issue. That's why they are supposed to pay, not to go to jail.
In this particular case, copyright is working probably like it was meant to work. Seeing that this is the extreme minority of the copyright consequences, I still think copyright, as it is now, should not exist at all, because its benefits are eclipsed by its drawbacks.
These people should be forced to pay a reasonable amount of money to this guy.
Re:No you didn't. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:No you didn't. (Score:5, Insightful)
Most of the older (six digits or fewer) users of Slashdot are software people, and, as such, we make our reputation and most of us our living from copyrighted software. So we know exactly what copyright means. When you steal my bike, that's theft. When you copy my code against the terms of the license I grant you, that's copyright infringement. I'll come after you if you do either of them, but I know what the difference is.
Copyright infringement is not theft.
Re:No you didn't. (Score:4, Funny)
For example.. perhaps this WAS a case of theft. We're short of details -- it's entirely possible that the picture used was never placed anywhere publicly, and the company may have sent in ninjas in the night to steal it.. and stealing's theft. Yes it is.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Copyright infringement is "making a duplication"
There is a subtle, but important difference: if something is stolen from you, you don't have it, and the thief does. If something you made gets the copyright infringed upon, you still have your creation.
Re:No you didn't. (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, they deprived him of $19,462..
Actually, it was $4,462 (Score:5, Informative)
Sorry to read the details, but that's just the way I am. I don't get much done, but what I do do is quality work...
Another $5,000 for removing the watermark (more than the value of the photo itself), plus another $10,000 in punitive damages, "just because the judge said so".
Well, like Mom always said, it is better to fess up than face the wrath of being caught in a lie.
The cover-up always costs more than the crime, it seems.
And, yes, I did say "do do" on purpose.
Re:Actually, it was $4,462 (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Actually, it was $4,462 (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Actually, it was $4,462 (Score:5, Informative)
No punitive damages were awarded in this case, and it is a relatively rare occasion that they are ever awarded.
You read all the details, but perhaps a shade too quickly...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
(b) Note all imaginary property monopolies are equal. Patents are far more evil than copyrights are far more evil than trademarks. The term "IP" is designed to conflate them and make nuanced debate difficult. Even parodies of the term, it seems, may have that effect.
(c) There is a difference between plagiarism and restriction on redistribution. In the complete absence of laws restricting redistribution (COPY rights
Re:so this is a good thing? (Score:5, Insightful)
Patents are far more evil than copyrights
Patents are for a fixed 20-year term, and must be laid out in specificity for the good of the general public upon expiration. Patents are subject to a lengthy examination process to prove that they are novel and non-trivial extensions of the current knowledge.
By contrast, copyright is for the life of the author plus (currently) 70 years. Thanks to our Congress, everything created since 1923 could potentially still be protected. After 80 years of Mickey Mouse, he is STILL not in the public domain. Walt Disney croaked in 1966, and his copyright will last until at least 2024. See this article [findlaw.com] for more details.
Trademarks are designed to protect your interest in your "brand", and to prevent customer confusion. They are inherently a good thing.
I would posit that 1) trademarks are good for companies and the consumer; 2) patents are mostly a good system (with the possible exclusion of business method patents), and 3) that copyright is much more heinous.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
However we WILLINGLY give up that right up to the government for the furthurence of society. Just like we WILLINGLY give up the right to be able to copy other people's ideas.
Some of us in fact DO agree with IP.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, if you actually believe there should be laws against "copying other people's ideas" then there is no hope for you.
And if you actually believe that copyright protects other people's ideas, then there isn't much hope for you, either. For a guy who seems to be responsible for about every other post in this discussion about copyright, you're pretty uninformed about what copyright is.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What happened to Imaginary Property Rights???
Why is it okay for a geek to sue for this?
I mean data wants to be free and that picture is just data.
1) It is called "intellectual property", and this case sounds to me very much like how it is meant to work. This guy is making photographs for a living, and people should not use it without his consent. The damages also sound quite reasonable to me. Note that a photograph for use in your own publication normally costs much more than an audio recording in a retail shop, which you (and everyone around here) will probably want to compare it against.
2) It is OK for a anyone to sue for it. It is imho in princi
Re:so this is a good thing? (Score:5, Informative)
1. The evil corporation started playing hardball first.
2. The evil corporation was infringing the copyright for profit.
3. The evil corporation provably distributed copies of the copyrighted material, and the number of copies could be proven as well.
4. The evil corporation appears to have undertaken actions to attempt to defraud both the copyright holder and the court by giving testimony that a person sold the copyright to the corporation. (The ruling expresses doubt that this person even exists.)
5. The damages claimed were not ridiculous given the extent of the violations, substantially less than the amount available at law.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Er, unless I'm missing something, that appears to be a wildly inaccurate reading. Vilana Financial and Vilana Realty are certainly not a one man outfit [vilanafinancial.com]. According to the verdict they do have one person as principal shareholder, but that's really not the same thing.
Re:so this is a good thing? (Score:4, Insightful)
In this case, it's the profit involved. I would be upset and feel that someone who charged $50 for an unauthorized copy of Vista should be sued in a similar fashion.
Also, note that this damage award is fairly reasonable. $18,000 is a hefty price for a small-mid sized business, but not a 'this will destroy your business' damage award. Unlike the $100,000+ award given to RIAA over that woman in Duluth when real damages could likely be truthfully estimated in dollars or 10s of dollars and statutory damages of 100s of dollars would be reasonable (if the concept of suing a non-commercial distributor who derives no benefit from the distribution is reasonable at all).
Re:Someone used your artistic work without paying (Score:5, Insightful)
Keep in mind also, that the creeps who ripped him off used his work to make a substantial sum of money. Indeed, they pretty much pirated his work in the legal sense of the term (this wasn't for personal use, it was for profit.) If the RIAA were suing someone that took a copyrighted work, put their name on it and sold it as their own, I don't think many people here would complain.
Reply from author (Score:5, Informative)
I personally make a distinction between non-commercial/educational use and use for commercial gain (the RIAA goes after private individuals who shared music with other private individuals non-commercially). I went after a business who had a budget for photography, but cut me out of the loop to increase their profit margin at my expense. I barely make a living at photography, which is why I was pro-se (I couldn't afford an attorney).
I don't know what the fix is for the current copyright system, but anything that allows content creators to earn a living (without having to sue people) is fine with me.