Netflix To Eliminate Profiles Feature 508
Donald Burr of Borg writes "One of my favorite features of Netflix, the video-rental-by-mail service, is 'profiles.' Profiles lets you create 'sub-accounts' for your friends/family, so that they can share in the video rental love. Each profile gets his/her own Netflix queue that he/she can manage with their own login/password. You can divide up how many movies get sent to you vs. the other profiles under your account. E.g. if you have a 6-out-at-once plan, you can choose to get 3 movies at a time, and have 3 other profiles each receive 1 movie. Unfortunately, the fun stops September 1, at which point Netflix is, for unknown reasons, going to terminate this feature. Why? To '...help us to continue to improve the Netflix website for all our customers.' Improvement indeed."
Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Interesting)
lately, I've been THROTTLED (big-time). I just upgraded from a 3 at once plan to almost double that. and for the first few weeks, things came in the mail on schedule and on time.
lately, though, things are being sent from far away centers; when I return discs directly to the PO, only some are showing up the next day at NF (I live in the silicon valley area and its ALWAYS a 1day hop from local to local!).
there are many tricks NF is playing, but the short of it is: if you are a heavy renter, you get penalized.
solution: go away and come back. at least that's what I have read. cancel for a month then re-join. you get a new slate and they stop throttling you (for a while, at least).
lather rinse repeat.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Interesting)
but they have NOT changed their ways, not in any significant way. read their TOS - they have the slipperiest weasel words possible.
they STILL do ALL the things they were accused of. they have not changed one bit, other than their WORDING on their site.
its deeply built into their business model, I guess. but its still WRONG to say 'unlimited' when its clearly not at all unlimited.
I live 20 minutes drive from their los gatos main center. I drop my dvd's in the mail AT THE POST OFFICE early in the AM. I am 99.9% certain that each one does get from sunnyvale to san jose in a day. there is just no way in hell it can take more than that; so why do discs not show up as 'received' until about 2 days later?
and even then, some of them 'downgrade' to shipping tomorrow over the course of the day. I check NF at 7am and I see that 2 have been received and are said to be shipping today. but later in the day, mysteriously they change to shipping tomorrow. yet my queue has over 300 entries!
they are still throttling. and they are lying thru their teeth about it every time they deny it.
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, this feature is what makes Netflix make sense for us. I divide up our plan into two queues - one for me, one for the wife & kids. They get what they want, I get what I want (I have less time to watch, so sometimes I have a movie at home for a week or more) and we don't get in each other's way.
Fundamentally, without this feature, Netflix becomes a pain in the butt to manage for us. Right now, I can be sure that when I send a movie back, I get one of my movies. The same goes for the others.
I'm going to cancel on Aug 31 (and have told them so) if they don't keep this feature.
Re: (Score:2)
I also wrote Netflix an e-mail and really do plan on quit unless they reverse this policy. The feature is already implemented, I can't imagine it costs that much more to maintain as the code that manages the queues is al
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, it isn't difficult to maintain one queue for multiple people, but it's inconvenient. The entire purpose of Netflix is CONVENIENCE! I don't have to go to a store, I can put movies in a list and drop them in my office's mailbox after I'm done watching. Thus the allure. Now they took away a very convenient feature.
Redbox on the way home is sounding a bit more tempting now, goodbye Netflix.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't buy this crap about it being in the name of customer service ether. I call BullShit! If they really wanted to improve the customer service they would get rid of those fucking sliders / wheel / or whatever they are on the new releases page. I don't want to have to view new releases by clicking on arrows and seeing them 5 at a time. I want them flashed up on one page like they used to so I can view them all at once.
Fucking pain in the Ass.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Recommendations for you both (Score:3, Funny)
Should I keep going? Okay, I cheated and got The Crow from Google Sets :p
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, from a pure consumer standpoint, this change makes no difference. Netflix already has a pricing model such that, the CHEAPEST plan is 3 DVD / time. If you move from 3 to 4 out at a time, you actually pay more and from 4 to any other number, the price is the same (per DVD at a time).
If you had 6 at a time and choose to go to 3 at a time with 2 accounts, you'll actually save money (mere pennies, though). Since it was a separate login/password for each profile, there's no difference between having a separate account, expect for the "master user" having full view access. For those who allow their children to rent, they will still just use one account and they'll have to spend more time on their end managing their queue and that's an unfortunate hassle.
But I think you're right. I think profiles are causing a real PITA for the site programmers to maintain code and scrapping it all together will allow faster and more flexible programming models. They're probably finding legacy code such that the programmers are like "we want to do this but the way profiles currently work, it's preventing us from doing it without a complete programming change to the profiles system".
Instead of sinking a large cost into fixing profile code, they're probably just going to scrap it all together so they can implement whatever new and shiny features or improve database speeds or whatever.
I thought the feature was awesome, but from a "money" standpoint, I don't see how Netflix is doing this to "screw customers" out of more money, as their current payment plans emphasis 3/time movies over any other. Unless there's some research that says that 3/time people keep their movies longer than 6/time people or something.
Cheers,
Fozzy
Cope (Score:5, Insightful)
My boss' response to that kind of reasoning? backed up by the marketing department, CEO, and customers? "Cope."
Massively degrading the user's experience is not excused by programmer's convenience.
Re:Cope (Score:4, Informative)
Proof isn't necessary; if a user says that it's less convenient for them, it is reasonable to believe them.
The profiles feature is what makes Netflix usable for my family. We have very different movie preferences, and this change promises to throw out all of the movie ratings except for those associated with the main profile. I'm not a heavy user, and I have 70+ movies in my queue, which will all be deleted (along with hundreds of my movie ratings) on September 1st. Netflix's advice is to print out the queue and manually add those movies to the main account's queue. Unfortunately, different family members watch movies at different rates, so without a lot of manual queue management (logging in every time we return a video) things will quickly get out of sync. Without profiles, there won't be much point in continuing the service for me, which is fine; it's just video, not something important.
Netflix claims that only 1% of their users use this feature. Apparently they think that risking 1% of their business is worth the benefits of reducing software overhead, which tells me that their software must really suck.
Re:Cope (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm an engineering manager, and agree with the grandparent. We're not in business for the convenience of the engineers. If you can provide a marketing analysis to support your argument, I'll listen. If you can produce a cost/benefit analysis to support your position, I'll listen. If you can produce an ethical/moral/legal justification, I'll listen. If you're whinging because "it's not convenient," all you will do is piss me off.
This seems like a rather poor move, marketing wise. I'm annoyed that I have to move my wife's 200+ movie list over to my main profile, which is never used. But if its simply for the "convenience" of the engineers, I'll be royally pissed.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Informative)
Wrong, the cheapest plan is 1 DVD with 2 per month. The cheapest per DVD plan is 3/time.
The 3/time plan use to be $6/movie, but they dropped the price of that plan by $1/movie as a move to bring Blockbuster Online members back as Blockbuster raised their rates (twice) and by some plans, a massive amount (like 66%).
Tossing out the limited number rental, lowest tier plan, the best deal for any Netflix user is 3/time, assuming you pick a plan that allows you to watch the same number of films a week as you plan allows per time. Meaning, 1 movie a time means you'll watch 1 movie a week, 3 movies at a time and you'll watch 3 movies a week. Which I think it probably about what Netflix expects you to watch and will throttle people to this degree.
The difference is very negligible. That would amount to a cost of $1.41 a movie for 3/time and $1.50 per movie for anything above that. (Assuming the watching habits I described) To round out the numbers, it's $1.75 per movie at 2/time and $2.25 per movie at 1/time (based on a standard 28 day / 4-week month which obviously isn't an exact monthly schedule given most months have more than 28 days)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Why? NetFlix, as I'm sure you understand, is not some altruistic service for movie geekdom. It's a business. From their standpoint, if it is possible to increase their revenue by eliminating this "feature", then they should do it. They are in business to make money, it's not the public library.
Any discomfort will soon be forgotten, and they may even be able to shed themselves of the dead-beat "customers" that cost them more than they make.
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Insightful)
This "downgrade" in service has reminded me to take another look at the market and see what other companies like Blockbuster are doing. If they are offering this service, I will probably send my Roku back and switch services.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I really don't understand this mentality. Blank DVDs aren't free, and Netflix is so very inexpensive, and very few people over the age of six actually watch a movie more than two or three times.
It is CHEAPER, if you use netflix, not to rip at all. Just buy the few movies you actually want to watch again. AND you get them with all the pretty packaging for your bookshelf.
Not to mention that it doesn't make sense to buy any DVDs at all at the moment, since the DVD succes
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Insightful)
People who say things like, "Well, obviously, company $x is a business, so they can do whatever they want" or "Your boss pays you money to work, so you have to do whatever he says" are invariably idiots.
NetFlix offered this feature. Some people bought the service in part because of this feature. Now it's being taken away. No discounts or temporary account upgrades or anything. Not even a way to migrate the old profiles to a new account. That's pretty sleazy.
As for "dead-beat customers that cost them more than they make", that does not make someone a dead beat. That makes them thrifty.
It is expected that both sides will act rationally. Customers will make the most out of their money, and NetFlix will cut features that cost them money. Calling their customers deadbeats is idiotic. But NetFlix is not handling this very well at all. They are taking something away without offering a thing. Customers are going to be pissed, and they've got a right to be.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
God, I hate people like you.
People who say things like, "Well, obviously, company $x is a business, so they can do whatever they want" or "Your boss pays you money to work, so you have to do whatever he says" are invariably idiots.
Hate? Wow, you must have a difficult life.
A business can do as it pleases if there is a financial justification to do so. You as a consumer, can stop doing business with such a business if you don't like the change. It's not like NF has a monopoly on mail order rentals.
That's called choice, and we all have the right to make it. In this case, a good thing is going away. A lot of comments on here have the change related to database management issues, but I'd guess that's a small part of the issue. Most like
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
NetFlix offered this feature. Some people bought the service in part because of this feature. Now it's being taken away. No discounts or temporary account upgrades or anything. Not even a way to migrate the old profiles to a new account. That's pretty sleazy.
I don't understand why it's sleazy. It's rude, and it's a good reason to cancel your account, but it's not like you had to make some investment to use netflix. It's a monthly fee, they're free to change the terms of service, and you're free to stop using netflix.
Customers are going to be pissed, and they've got a right to be.
Agreed. But it still doesn't make netflix sleazy. Just stupid.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Given all of that, why are you calling Netflix "sleazy"? Is it only idiotic to speak of someone in a derogatory way for acting in their own self interest when they are a customer, but perfectly fine if they are running a business?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Interesting)
That's not to say I would put the slimeball tactic outside of the realm of possibilities, but that just seems less likely.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, here's a customer who just changed to paying for no accounts. I'll just go back to getting movies from the library.
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Insightful)
NetFlix you are doing it wrong!
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:4, Insightful)
I love it when a firm says something this vague and contradictory when they basically realise that a thing that got people to use them is costing them too much money. I mean, if they really meant they were improving their service, then I'm fairly certain they'd say why.
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Insightful)
Take the airliners a decade and a half ago. "In order to provide a better service to you, our valued customer, we will eliminate the olive from the salad in our in-flight meal", all because some smart ass junior exec figured out that the airliner could save up to twenty thousand dollars a year, from a budget of billions, by eliminating the olives. Slippery slope from there, pretty soon the whole salad was gone, and all we were left with was boiled peas, know what I mean?
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Funny)
And that's the way we likes'd it.
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Funny)
They might just be going to charge you more.
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Interesting)
I am a big fan of Netflix for all the good reasons, but this decision is almost a deal-breaker to me. Give me a fucking chance to get my history and data back.
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:4, Informative)
We share a two-disc plan with two profiles. We switched away from Blockbuster Online in part because of the profiles that Netflix offers. Without that, we're at least dropping down to a 1 disc plan, and we may drop the service altogether.
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:4, Informative)
So, I'm taking it BB Online doesn't have profiles? I actually went online last night to see if I could find out for sure, but didn't find anything definitive.
BTW, I also wrote a letter to Netflix letting them know how much I enjoyed their service, and the fact that profiles were the key ingredient in my decision to join NF. I also made it clear that without profiles, there was a very good chance I would no longer see much value in their service. My wife likes mystery, romance and Jane Austen, I like MI5, The 4400, Battlestar, Will Smith, Sci-Fi and psychological thrillers. Our daughter gets kids disks and will keep them for a week or two.
We don't always cycle at the same pace, so profiles make it possible for us to enjoy it more.
At the very least, I'll be dropping my service, but in all likelihood, I'll be dropping it. And probably not in favor of BB. I'm just up the road from a Hollywood Video, so who knows
Cheers.
Netflix, You're doing it wrong!
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Informative)
Here are the addresses I sent to:
Leslie Kilgore - VP Marketing : lkilgore@netflix.com
Reed Hastings - President: rhastings@netflix.com
publicrelations@netflix.com
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Informative)
reed.hastings@netflix.com
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:5, Informative)
Dear Netflix Team,
I am writing to acknowledge an email I received regarding recent changes in Netflix service. Specifically, the fact that profiles will soon be eliminated from Netflix services.
I would like to express my dissatisfaction at this decision. As a software developer, I realize that maintaining special services are often more costly than they would appear to those enjoying them, and I don't presume to know the efforts behind the excellent service my family and I have been receiving from Netflix thus far.
However, I would like it to be known that the profile feature was the single most important deciding factor in my decision to become a Netflix customer. The ability for different members of my family to control the flow and content of their own queues is invaluable. The loss of this feature will very likely affect my decision to remain with Netflix. It is my sincere hope that this decision might be re-evaluated.
Best regards,
Etc.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I know that once Netflix drops profiles, I'll be dropping netflix in favor of Blockbuster.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Get off my lawn. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yes, I received the same notice. (Score:4, Insightful)
The separate queues is, to me, their chief advantage over Blockbuster. I don't really watch Netflix downloadable movies (and hate being forced into using Windows and IE even if I did), so that is no advantage there. Once the queues go away, I will re-examine which service I want to use. If Blockbuster wins on price, they will get my money instead. If Blockbuster takes advantage of this opporrunity and adds separate queues to their service, they score a slam-dunk and I will switch without a second thought or a bit of regret (I hope somebody from Blockbuster reads this). Being able to exchange one or two movies a month in the store is also very convenient, and a big plus in the Blockbuster column.
1) Make customers angry and shoot self in foot.
2) ???
3) Profit.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
If that's the case, that's a big cost savings.
Re: (Score:2)
Sibling A: But mom, I want more of Item X!
Parent: But you already get the same amount as your brother, that's fair.
Sibling A: But I'm older, I should get more!
Parent: That doesn't matter, it's staying as it is.
Sibling B: If he gets more then I want more!
Sibling A: If he gets more then I want more!
Sibling B: If he gets more then I want more!
Sibling A: If he gets more then I want more!
Siblin
Probably a bug. (Score:3, Interesting)
Not a good sign (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not a good sign (Score:4, Interesting)
He exercised 2,500 options and then sold off 10,000 shares just last week.
See: http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/06/13/ap5115170.html
Re:Not a good sign (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not sure how it improves things... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'm not sure how it improves things... (Score:4, Interesting)
The profiles allowed us more flexibility and better service. I think that Netflix is trying to increase revenue without increasing their monthly fees. Downgrading our plan and subscribing to another minimal would cost us at least $2.00/month. It is definitely a hidden cost increase.
Has anyone here had experience with the Blockbuster service? Does it support queues and how is their selection?
Bad Move (Score:5, Insightful)
This has been a life-saver (Score:2, Interesting)
This has been a life-saver for me; rather than having to remember what movies my wife wants to see, and having my movies held up when she takes a week to watch one, I can set her up with her on mini-queue and then not have to worry about it. What Netflix fails to realize is that there is no way in hell I will pay for a separate account for this, and I doubt many other people will, either. I was fairly upset when I got the email, and am considering looking at the Blockbuster service, since I can also use i
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Someone will greasemonkey it. (Score:4, Interesting)
Sean D.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I DON'T think Netflix would have done this if Walmart was still alive in their DVD rental business.
Last I checked Blockbuster's online store worked poorly in FireFox... and if the stores are any indication, probably all of their movies default to "full screen" (pan and scan).
My favorite is GreenCine.com... but they only ship from the west coast, and movie turnover
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The so-called reason (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The so-called reason (Score:5, Interesting)
The only thing I didn't like about the separate queues was that only the primary account holder could browse the instant movies. My wife never used the feature, and I avoided rating movies I watched for fear it would distort the movies picked as ones she'd like to see. Which brings up another point...how can multiple family members track movies they like nowadays and have accurate recommended features? "This one's a special case...apparently she like romantic comedies and really bad horror movies!"
Duh (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Once again, that makes no freaking sense. I have four family members. I can add movies to the single queue and adjust that single queue to ensure that each of us get movies. You do realize you can change the order of the queue, right?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It takes about 5 freaking seconds to pick up a movie in the queue and to drop it somewhere else. Does your computer even have a mouse? Are you using some utterly complicated command-line version of Netflix?
If you want to watch Die Hard, for example. Put it on the top of your queue and you'll get it in the next batch. If you wife wa
"It's easy" vs. "It just works" (Score:4, Insightful)
Netflix Profiles "just works". I have my queue of 150+ movies, and without further effort the movies I want show up in the order I want, one at a time; ditto for my wife, who being home more than I am gets two a at a time. NO EFFORT.
Now you, and Netflix, pull the "quit whining, it's EASY to get the same thing, just go reshuffle the mutual queue..." without realizing that now that we've _made_ our lists (over 300 movies total), now we have to go _update_ that list every day. That doesn't "just work", that takes constant fiddling when we've got plenty of other things to do.
On top of that, our wildly different tastes (sappy chick flix vs. sci-fi noir & grusome action) means that the "suggestions" tool is useless. One of us gets on to review suggestions, and half the stuff suggested will be undesirable (never mind any bizzare half-breed "because you liked '27 Dresses' and 'Akira'...").
Profiles worked. It's extremely useful to some customers. Fix the code; don't wreck the customer experience.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Once you log in and navigate to the queue, yes. How many times a month do you do that? With my own profile, I only need to do it every few months.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Does your computer even have a mouse? Are you using some utterly complicated command-line version of Netflix?
Come now, this is Slashdot, you should know that nearly any task that can be performed on a command-line will be faster that way than with a GUI, if you know what you are doing. The only exception I can think of would visually-based artistic things like drawing or creating a complicated 3D rendering.
/add "Die Hard" p=1
I assure you that if there were a CLI version of Netflix, it would take less time to type:
netflix
than it does to load the GUI page and click on the "send to top" button. And certainly plac
First time for everything (Score:5, Interesting)
For your convenience ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Touching. I'm reminded of a sign I once saw on the door of a bank branch, some years ago while I was living in Boston:
For my convenience. Heartwarming, isn't it, how these folks are always looking out for us.Lovefilm (Score:5, Interesting)
unknown reasons? (Score:2)
Maybe they will replace it (Score:3, Interesting)
Personally, when I got the email from Netflix, a little part of me thought 'good... maybe their going to try to do it right this time'
Now I get it (Score:5, Funny)
When I told her that I'm a programmer and I don't understand what it means to free up programming space, she was quiet for a moment and then said, "This is really a decision that they've already made, so it's not like they're going to change their minds."
I'm all for freeing up programming space. Statistics show that programming space will be all used up in the next 10 years if we don't start conserving it.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Now I get it (Score:5, Funny)
The ONLY reason I would have switched to Netflix (Score:4, Interesting)
My Email to Netflix (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
2 at a time: $14 / month
Proportionally, a 29% surcharge to have 2 x 1 at a time.
I asked for a feature LIKE the one this one (Score:3, Interesting)
What I envisioned originally was to be able to manage multiple lists on a single screen: lets call them List A, List B, and List C. When browsing and adding movies to the queue, you still have one button to add movies, but it would have a drop-down option that would let you choose another queue. Thus, the default button action would be the same, but you would have the option of diverting the request. For queue management, I had pitched a system similar to the one the adopted, allowing you to specify how to intersperse the movies from the other queues. For controls, I envisioned parameters only on the sub-queues. Using the names I provided earlier in and example, you could configure List B to send one movie after every three sent on the primary queue. I envisioned being able to drag-and-drop between the lists on the same GUI page. As for others adding their preferences to the queue, the account owner could specify users (by email address) who could logon and add to specific queues, much the way the service was implemented. For younger kids who may not have their own eddresses, Netflix could have allowed the account owner to create logon accounts that would be child accounts and have limited rights. If the owner's logon was thisuser@somedomain.com, for example, I envisioned secondary accounts that could be named subAccountName~thisuser@somedomain.com.
Oh, and yes, I was this verbose in passing my comments on to Netflix. I was pleased that they opted for profiles, but was disappointed by how cumbersome they were to manage. Placing all profile management in a single page view would have gone far in making them easier to use.
I guess I'm disappointed to see Netflix throw out the baby with the bathwater, but they can see that users like me have stopped using the profiles. It reaches a point where the amount of developer support hours and system maintenance tasks invested in a minimally used feature necessitates a pause to rethink the strategy. Hopefully we will see an improved queue management system in the future.
Does Blockbuster offer profiles? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Does Blockbuster offer profiles? (Score:5, Informative)
My theory (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyway, here's my theory. Netflix will bring the profiles back but charge a "nominal" fee each month for each profile. Like maybe 50 cents per month. Overtime the fee will be raised to actually increase Netflix's profits.
add comments to the Netflix blog post (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)