Virginia Begins Open-Source Physics Textbook 226
eldavojohn writes "The Commonwealth of Virginia has issued a request for contributions to an open source physics textbook (or 'flexbook' they termed it). They are partnering with CK-12 to make this educational textbook under the Creative Commons by Attribution Share-Alike license."
Hell Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
It's about time, can't wait to see the result and more of the same for other subjects. Education for everyone, free-ish. This is how it should be.
Re:Hell Yes (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Hell Yes (Score:5, Funny)
And this is why... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:And this is why... (Score:4, Insightful)
Physicists just can't agree on even the most basic aspects of their science.
And who are you to make such a (ridiculous) claim?
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Wow, that's actually a very cool vid. Thanks for sharing.
But it doesn't apply at all to my comment. Biologists study fantastically complex systems, while neuroscientists and the like study something even more complex: emergent properties of a sophisticated network of neurons that are by themselves complex.
Physicists, on the other hand, are reductionists and try to study Nature at the most fundamental level possible, attempting to control for as many externalities as physically possible. There is not one rea
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Under the topic: "How the Universe Began" (Score:5, Funny)
I got preview of some content for the text-book:
Re:Under the topic: "How the Universe Began" (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hell Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
How the hell are we suppose to sit in Ivory Towers and look down upon the commoners if education is free from us political and educational elites?
I mean, we need to make sure that people are certified by a piece of paper to prove that they've bowed before the altar of Education properly.
This includes requiring each new student to buy overpriced textbooks, brand new each year. Please, won't anyone think of the poor professors and teachers???
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Yes it will.
It will allow people who want to learn physics, but don't have access to $$$ for a text book. I'm thinking inner city geeks.
Re:Hell Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
The reason I have concern is that in our state, the selection committee for books didn't have a single person with any type of degree in physics. So where are they going to find editors.
I would prefer they used Sears and Zemansky College version, but am afraid that schools couldn't afford it.
I have never looked at Halliday and Resnick Fundamental version, but that may also be good.
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Since people drag the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics into evolution arguments, it *could* be (I didn't say "should") argued that it is relevant to physics.
Halliday and Resnick is very good btw. I remember working through the workbook in high school.
Re:Hell Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a common axiom that should be in play here IMO, if a quorum of recognized physicists agree that a topic should be covered for a specific level of understanding, then it should be covered.
A wiki would work if it could be voted on, and topic frozen for a year once voted and approved, or that subject page moved to a reference site which could be used as the text for one or more years.
Physics 101 typically covers certain topics, more advanced classes cover more and more in depth. The trick is making that material available and flexible as they say. There are no great arguments about creationism in physics classes that I know of, but creationism is a religious principle and should be covered in theology class. NOTE to self: that page should be a redirect to bible.com.
If actual physicists and hobbyists can agree on material, then you have more intelligence working on the problem than currently being used to select texts... more or less.
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I would prefer they used Sears and Zemansky College version, but am afraid that schools couldn't afford it.
Gee, why not? It's only $150 (workbook $25 extra).
Of course, that's the 12th edition. You can get the 11th or 10th edition online for less than five bucks plus shipping. The 10th edition is only 8 years old. Has freshman physics changed that much in 8 years?
THE INVISIBLE HAND!!! (Score:5, Funny)
NO! This is an Outrage!! This is blasphemy!! Any honest fool knows that the best way to provide education,a or anything else for that matter, is to allow the unregulated invisible hand of the free market to solve everything. The magic of the markets can do it all, as long as they are unfettered by big government socialists! This project is Economic Terrorism!!
This is unfair government competition in an otherwise productive and creative industry. Just look at the high quality and low costs of textbooks and courses currently on offer! Just look at the amount of engineers graduating from our universities! The free market has brought us prosperity, happiness and profit and can bring us so much more if only the government would cut more taxes and ... ....what?... they what?...when?...how much?..... ........
Pay No Attention The Trillion Dollar Nationalization Project Behind The Curtain. The Market Will Continue To Solve All. This Is Simply A Temporary Accounting Measure. I Repeat. The Magic Of The Market Is Absolute!
Re:THE INVISIBLE HAND!!! (Score:4, Funny)
Uh, dude, if this is about the pharmas gouging you on your "Chill Pill" prescription, I would be totally fine with paying the bill for you. Really.
a few things (Score:4, Insightful)
1. TFA states that this is for K-12, NOT college...so all the 'screw the Univ. for making me pay $200 for a textbook comments' are misguided
2. I like this idea as well, but let's not forget that an open textbook than anyone can edit about SCIENCE is bound to attract hordes of Intelligent Design trolls...imagine it...every church in Virginian tells its members to go home Sunday afternoon and edit the wiki-text book about evolution...this is big, big trouble
3. I'd rather see this opened to a pool of teachers, professors, scientists, etc that have been vetted for their qualifications.
You are paying for it (Score:3, Insightful)
1. TFA states that this is for K-12, NOT college...so all the 'screw the Univ. for making me pay $200 for a textbook comments' are misguided
The K-12 books are bought with tax money. They're not free.
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Maybe he goes to a really bad college, where they use high school textbooks.
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Science should be free for anyone to comment. I think that a wikipedia style page would work fine. Just let professors etc. be the moderators and e.g. lock the articles that are often trolled and allow only comments in the talk page. Or just allow comments in the talk pages. Making it easy for people to provide feedback will make the result much better.
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First Virginia, then Kansas.
So it won't be long before an approved "physics" textbook tells us how many angels can dance on the head of a pin...
OSS Textbooks kick serious... (Score:5, Informative)
Ass, but www.textbooktorrents.com saved me a bunch of money.
Why pay for rev.2 and rev.3 when you bought rev.1 and are getting reamed by changed question numbers?
I saved my friends about 2k$ this semester from what I found there.
Re:OSS Textbooks kick serious... (Score:4, Insightful)
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You'd be right, except for one thing.
State requires only certain textbooks for the upcoming year, and typically textbook requirements change enough each year, often in spite of the fact that there is nothing that really changed in the textbooks year to year.
The whole Textbook issue is a HUGE issue for students and school districts, as the state LIMITS what is allowed. The political cronies and educational illites (sic) in charge are lining their pockets by requiring pointless changes.
I saw one ridiculous ex
Re:OSS Textbooks kick serious... (Score:4, Interesting)
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You obviously don't live in Indiana where we have to pay a book rental fee. $73 for my first grader, and rising prices as you get older.
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I AM in Indiana.
Recently, the school has submitted yet another rounds of lawsuits against parents who have not paid their book rental ransom.
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My wife is a teacher with a few stories of book abuse. Given some of the terrible things students do to books (which then have to be replaced), I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise someone thought of a way to balance the books.
Re:OSS Textbooks kick serious... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:OSS Textbooks kick serious... (Score:4, Funny)
Why do you hate lumberjacks?
Re:OSS Textbooks kick serious... (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah! I'm a lumberjack, and I'm OK.
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Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how many trees I'm saving. or something, whatever.
Query: If a tree is saved from being felled in the forest, but no one is there to hear it, does it make any sound?
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We have to wait for the LHC to to start smashing stuff before we will have answer to questions like that. Maybe even one day, we will know what one hand clapping sounds like.
Copyright violation is not theft (Score:5, Informative)
You RIAA brain washed dupe.
Theft is "the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent." [wikipedia.org] Your example is theft.
Copyright violation is "the unauthorized use of material that is covered by copyright law, in a manner that violates one of the copyright owner's exclusive rights, such as the right to reproduce or perform the copyrighted work, or to make derivative works." [wikipedia.org] What CC suggests is most likely copyright violation, but that depends on the terms the book is released under.
THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.
Please stop modding idiocy like this as Insightful. It isn't. You're doing the RIAA's work for them when you allow their twisted definitions to gain mainstream acceptance.
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Thanks for trying, but...
I saved a bunch of us about 2000$ from what we would have HAD to buy if I couldnt have found it online.
We've also had photocopying sessions where we had 4 scanners operational, making JPEG books ourselves.
Flat out: I dont care about copyright. Im not going to honor the big guys copyright in our current copyright situation. Take it back to 17 years, and I will.
Still... (Score:2)
Still, what you're talking about is copyright violation and not theft. Yeah, it's illegal. But it's a different illegal. Like how jaywalking and vehicular manslaughter are two different things. It would suck to be guilty of one and tried for another. It's the shell game the RIAA is foisting on the public trying to equate the two. And whenever I see it - I point it out. As loud as I can.
And FWIW, if I was still in college I'd be doing exactly what you're doing. You get awfully sick of eating Ramen
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---Still, what you're talking about is copyright violation and not theft. Yeah, it's illegal. But it's a different illegal. Like how jaywalking and vehicular manslaughter are two different things. It would suck to be guilty of one and tried for another. It's the shell game the RIAA is foisting on the public trying to equate the two. And whenever I see it - I point it out. As loud as I can.
Of course. I tell everybody I dont care about petty legal triflings. I instead teach HOW to get any digital work, free o
Nice troll (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm especially fond of your ironic sig line:
"I really want it" does not mean the same as "I need it" or "I deserve it"
You do actually need it to pass.
And since you are essentially paying into an extortion racket, there is no moral dilema in avoiding doing so. All these assholes do is change the sample problems with each book revision. There is no content change worth shelling out another couple hundred dollars each semester.
For example, let's look at an Algebra book. How much new algebra has been written in the last 1000 years? Now how much of that would you expect to see in an introductory text? The answer is zero. None. All introductory Algebra texts cover the exact same thing.
So, the dilema - how do you make a new Algebra book every semester? A publisher makes money by selling books. How to do that? Simple. Change the homework problems. There is no new Algebra information, no new content, so they change the homework.
This is unethical. It's extortion. "Pay us or you don't graduate." So yeah, it's nice to see people solving the problem. Remember, what is legal and what is moral are often times two different things.
Re:OSS Textbooks kick serious... (Score:5, Insightful)
But you know what makes a ton of money? Putting out a new revision of a standard textbook with only a few sections moved around, and all the questions renumbered, so you sell the same content for hundreds of dollars all over again to a new bunch of suckers! This works because you give the professors that assign it a little bit of a kickback, as well as a free copy to get it as the new standard textbook for the course. I can't understand why anyone would be upset by that, or feel as if they're being ripped off.
Great Idea! (Score:5, Insightful)
I hope it won't be Wikipedia style...
Re:Great Idea! (Score:5, Funny)
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Pah. (Score:2)
The Open Library [openlibrary.org] project has barely any users, let alone book contributors or code contributors, and that isn't even restricted to something as special-interest as textbooks. If they can't get the open model to work for the written word, I doubt Virginia (not known as a bastion of openness or science) is going to have any impact worthy of the name. I hope I'm wrong, but I won't hold my breath.
Now these guys [edutaingrid.eu] have an idea for openness that looks far more interesting. Grids of Beowulfs of games. I can see that
Calculus, or no-calculus? (Score:2)
Physics without calculus is a bit pointless. Any idea if this is focused at honors/ap, or...?
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Most physics without solving PDEs is pointless. But I don't think that is the point of this class. High school physics focuses more on physical intuition and the understanding of the scientific method than on actual calculations. The only areas of high school physics that could apply to the real world are the simplest constant value problems. I would consider a high school physics class a success if the students could describe Newton's Laws of Mechanics, the Work-Energy Theorem, Newton's Universal Law o
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You came somewhat close to describing my high school physics curriculum. Except the Ideal Gas Law was covered in Chemistry, and you forgot a few things... Hooke, Kirschov, Thompson, ... uh, golly that was a long time ago.
In some cases where basic calculus would have been handy, we graphed and measured the area under the curve. That was also helpful later, in calculus.
I also think we didn't touch the wave equation until grade 13 chemsitry. But we did study nuclear reactors and relativity in high school phy
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Maybe yours was more focused on physical intuition, but mine was very much conceptual understanding and problem solving. We were expected to understand how closed form solutions were derived - sparing us the necessity of having to memorize them in some cases.
Yes, you can do some stuff without calculus, but calculus is easy, excepting some of the trig crossover and the umpteen billion integration tricks. It really ought to be part of everyone's high school education, if only for its tremendous ability to e
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calculus is easy, excepting some of the trig crossover and the umpteen billion integration tricks
Where "trig crossover and the umpteen billion integration tricks" form most of college-level Calc 2. Grrr...
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Re:Calculus, or no-calculus? (Score:5, Insightful)
Physics without calculus is a bit pointless.
Woh! Step down from your high horse. There is plenty to learn about basic physics that doesn't involve calculus. You must simply make the correct assumptions. All the calculus is doing is explaining why the algebra works under some assumptions and not others. Even in four years of engineering school, I rarely used calculus.
Keep in mind that a derivative can be expressed as a simple difference (subtraction) and an integral can be expressed as a simple summation.
For example, Newton's second law only requires calculus if the acceleration of the system is changing. For practical classroom purposes, acceleration due to gravity is constant. No calculus required. (sort of)
High school physics is teaching that the world can be described by math. The math that they will learn in physics without calculus will greatly help them understand calculus in the future. High school students don't need proofs, they need application. Application keeps kids interested.
Re:Calculus, or no-calculus? (Score:4, Insightful)
I also went to an engineering school. I don't ever use calculus and other fancy math in the workplace, but calculus and other fancy math are tremendously useful in understanding many of the modern marvels about us.
As far as summations and differences, this is intuitively true. Vector calculus teaches the intuition for that sort of thing. But without the ability to integrate, you're going to miss out on certain things.
Calculus gives you the power to forget special case solutions and derive as needed in a lot of cases, which is pretty damned awesome.
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Calculus gives you the power to forget special case solutions and derive as needed in a lot of cases, which is pretty damned awesome.
But it's beyond the scope of a basic physics class. You already know that the laws of physics are true, that the world can be explained by math. Kids in high school don't know that. This is the most important things kids learn in high school physics.
I found this article [popularmechanics.com] the other day, I think you should read it.
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If you're going into math or engineering, you can expect to eventually take: ... maybe some formal crap, too.
Calculus
Multivariable calculus
Diff Eq
Linear Algebra
Discrete math, automata.
Probability
Algorithms
Having calculus out of the way's nice, since it's often a prereq for a lot of 'entry level' science and engineering courses.
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Not to mention that college level calc may well taught in an arena type hall with 250 students, by a TA or a professor who most likely is going to find such "elementary" math beneath him or her.
Getting calc "out of the way" (at a community college level, in a class of mostly highschoolers who wanted the credit) was the best thing I ever did.
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Getting calc "out of the way" (at a community college level, in a class of mostly highschoolers who wanted the credit) was the best thing I ever did.
Not just calc, any math or science. The way math and science is taught in Universities in the US is terrible. I recommend most kids go to community college, unless they have a scholarship to a bigger school.
Because:
1. The teachers are better. Most of them also teach at high schools, or much lower level classes and are more effective communicators than PhDs. PhDs may know their stuff, but usually can't explain it to anybody except other PhDs.
2. It's WAY CHEAPER! (unfortunately, most universities wil
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Which is entirely unfair. A lot of people didn't have money for prep courses, or simply didn't have money for college, or didn't want to go to college.
If you're attending a class at a community college, it's because you want to be there, not because it's expected of you.
Kick out spdf (Score:2, Insightful)
Kick out spdf and welcome the era of open-source text books. Hooray!!
Is Project Gutenburg not going to lend a hand in this?
Web 2.0 as a force for good (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a good idea. Base it on a standard description of each concept like an old fashioned text book, but also allow:
- Discussion threads with students and teachers. (moderated, Slashdot style?)
- Contributed examples, again by students and teachers. You could do something like the PHP documentation, where the best contributed examples are prominently displayed at the bottom of the relevant page.
- Interactive tools to illustrate particular concepts.
- Copious linkage to similar resources.
A successful project like this could easily spawn similar projects for the other sciences.
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Slashdot style
I'd like to take this one step further and propose that everything you need to know shall be learned from slashdot comments only.
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Terrorphilia - One who loves terror to the point that someone will try to have sex with it.
Examples: Lynne Cheney, Bill Clinton
Intelligent Falling (Score:5, Funny)
Due to gravity being "just a theory," the state of Virginia will be requiring the textbooks to include alternative theories as to why objects with mass have gravity -- chief among them, the concept of Intelligent Falling.
Umm, yeah (Score:5, Interesting)
Having lived in Lynchburg for a number of years, there are plenty of folks there who would demand removal of all sorts of things such as the true age of the universe if they had any input at all into the process. If instead it was written by experts, they'd be complaining to their representative about the state spending money on teaching atheism.
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No, the real reason that objects with mass have gravity is that the Flying Spaghetti Monster pushes down on them with his Noodly Appendages. Get it right!
Light and Matter (Score:5, Interesting)
Go to Light and Matter [lightandmatter.com] for a high quality book set about physics.
By the way, CK-12,org already has one [ck12.org].
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Re:Light and Matter (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Light and Matter (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Light and Matter (Score:5, Informative)
Pointers to Textbooks and Content:
http://textbookrevolution.org/ [textbookrevolution.org]
http://www.opentextbook.org/ [opentextbook.org]
http://www.theassayer.org/ [theassayer.org]
http://spiff.rit.edu/classes/ [rit.edu]
http://globaltext.terry.uga.edu/ [uga.edu]
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Main_Page [wikibooks.org]
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Books [laptop.org]
Some available lecture notes:
http://ocw.mit.edu/index.html [mit.edu]
http://www.phys.uu.nl/~thooft/theorist.html#languages [phys.uu.nl]
http://spiff.rit.edu/classes/ [rit.edu]
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Thanks for the plug for Light and Matter -- I'm the author :-)
Their licensing scheme (CC-BY-SA) is compatible with mine (dual license, GFDL and CC-BY-SA), so if they want to adapt some of my materials, they can do that. My books are aimed at college classes, but I do have quite a few high school users. The problem with public high schools is that they usually have highly bureaucratic processes dictated by the state for selecting textbooks. (E.g., they want a sales rep from a big publisher to hold their han
Sounds Interesting (Score:2, Interesting)
The thing to keep in mind is that this is their first step; the "flexbook," in its first form isn't going to replace the printed textbooks. After all, they want version 1 to be released on Feb. 27, 2009.
--
Yeah, I RTFA.
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At least they didn't opt for Feb 29, 2009.
I've written about this (Score:2, Interesting)
http://harns.blogspot.com/2008/07/so-obvious-and-yet-so-not-done.html [blogspot.com]
I'm split between Optimism and Pessimism... (Score:2, Interesting)
The battle has not yet begun...
"And the Lawyers rejoiced...... (Score:2)
.........for they are the Choosing ones."
I wonder how long it is before the DOJ gets in the middle of THIS one(at the behest of textbook giants).
This is great news, as I am headed back to school this semester. Hopefully, innovation and reason are not squished into paste by the big textbook manufacturers in a bid to protect their scamming ways.
And, yes, I hope it is not Wiki format.
woo (Score:3, Funny)
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Moderators: That is not humor, it is hostility based on stereotyping.
others already exist (Score:2)
Re:others already exist (Score:4, Interesting)
A lot of high-level college textbooks have chapters written by different people. Typically by experts in the subjects covered in those chapters. This is why high-level textbooks are referred to by the names of their editors, not so much the authors.
So, I'm not sure if there is any particular drawback to distributing authorsip for an "open" textbook.
What I do like (other than the creative commons-style licensing) is that it seems there will be much greater oppportunity for community editing. This, if done properly, could result in greater readability and usefulness of the text.
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More than likely, it will be CK-12 who will edit the books to maintain the "cohesive structure, consistency, and progression of complexity" so as to provide a better experienc
uh oh, not Virginia! (Score:2, Funny)
Finally (Score:4, Insightful)
Ahh, a definitive open source physics textbook so comic book writers can stop having Superman lift a mountain which under the small surface area he can cover, regardless of how strong, would simply crumble around him or the pressure at his hands would be so great the rock would go molten and he would effectively melt through the mountain he was trying to hold up.
Perhaps ships blowing up in space will finally be silent the WAY GOD INTENTED THEM TO BLOW UP!
Perhaps Cyclop's eye beams will finally push him back with equal force that they shoot with and maybe the death star's super cannon will no longer be a laser but some particle stream of sub-atomic explosives that penetrate the planet and rapidly conver the conventional matter it comes in contact with into some exotic and unstable form of matter that goes boom. BIG BADDA BOOM!
Perhaps with a good solid physics text book people will learn to wear their seat belts, realize that driving a motor cycle isn't as safe as driving a car, and learn that the LHC cannot destroy the universe...
This all, of course, is completely dependant that:
A: People are literate (yes there is a difference between knowing how to read and being literate)
B: People writing the book can write
C: People start actually taking physic courses
D: Pay attention in said courses
E: Have a teacher that actually teaches rather then babysit like 99% of teachers in North America (YEAH THAT MEANS YOU TOO CANADA AND MEXICO. GUATEMALA -> PANAMA IS OFF THE HOOK... FOR NOW...)
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Have you been reading The Boys in recent months? It's a terrific series so far. Follows a rather unofficial CIA team whose job it is to keep an e
MIT has this already. (Score:2, Informative)
It's been done. (Score:5, Informative)
In the late 1960s, I was taught high-school physics from the PSSC (Physical Science Study Committee) Physics [gsu.edu] textbook. The curriculum and textbook were put together by an NSF-convened panel. All the curriculum materials (textbook, supplementary readings, teacher's guides, experimental equipment) were made freely available. I still have two copies of the textbook produced by different publishers and with different covers but identical inside.
Although it was demonstrably superior to other physics curricula, the PSSC program was ultimately a failure because publishers, who couldn't make much money selling the PSSC textbook due to competition, eventually dropped the book and pushed hard to get their proprietary, therefore more heavily marked-up, textbooks adopted by school boards.
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I'm not sure I'd quite agree with that. I learned physics a decade or two after the PSSC era, and now teach physics. I agree that the PSSC books were of unusually high
They Need It (Score:2)
I went to high school in Virginia, and my HS Physics teacher told us that the reason that astronauts on the space shuttle in orbit around the Earth floated and people on airplanes flying around the Earth did not was because of "air pressure" (I kid you not).
So yeah, they need something like this... if the teachers will READ it.
On the plus side, my physics teacher was HOT, hence I forgave her for her idiocy. :)
And the days are longer in the summer ... (Score:2)
California Prof. did the same thing (Score:2, Informative)
Only this weekend I hear on NPR a professor in California wrote a Chemistry book and released it under CC license. He felt the chem books available were too expensive, generic, and with just pretty pictures.
Link leads to blank page! (Score:2)
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Open source? What could that possibly have to do with a textbook? Is it compiled?
If it's written in LaTex and you can get the source with the book, then it would be a wholly accurate description.
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I fail to see how making something "open source" will prevent it from being accredited. It may cost money, but the FOSS world has raised money before, while having their primary product remain open source.
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Yes, they accredit school systems. There was a recent story about a school system in Georgia (USA) that lost its accreditation due to a dysfunctional school board. It's a very big deal for the residents of the county and their children.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/29/education/29clayton.html [nytimes.com]
Pay better salaries (Score:4, Insightful)
Pay more taxes so teachers can have better salaries, small classes and less time spend on paperwork and more on teaching.
Oops, you voted for the guy promising you a tax cut before any money has actually been cut and instead of saving what little money there is for a rainy day spend it all and more on tax cut only to then find himself involved in a war with no end.
Good teachers get burned out by the system created by voters who can't see anything but that 300 dollar tax refund.