Dell Closes Ireland Plant; 2nd Largest Employer 494
Wide Angle writes in with a PBS report on tough economic news from Ireland: Dell announced that it will relocate its manufacturing plant in Limerick, Ireland to Lodz, Poland. "Dell's announcement... is a severe blow to the Irish economy, which has been hit hard and fast by the global economic crisis. Dell is Ireland's second-largest corporate employer and the country's largest exporter. Nineteen hundred shift workers will lose their jobs. ...Dell's closing is not a result of the economic downturn, but of a pattern all too familiar in the United States — corporations' perennial search for cheaper labor. Since 2000 several companies, such as Procter & Gamble, Intel, Gateway, and NEC Electronics, have moved manufacturing jobs from Ireland to China, Eastern Europe, and elsewhere. When Poland joined the European Union in 2004, it became an attractive place for companies to set up manufacturing plants. ... However, Ireland has managed to maintain and attract... 'knowledge-intensive jobs.' Google's European headquarters are based in Dublin, and Facebook announced late last year that they would locate their international headquarters there. But the overall economic picture for Ireland is bleak."
There once was... (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Being from Nantucket, I don't get the joke. I even read the article (imagine that) to see if there was some reference. In fact, being a native of Nantucket allows me to charge you 50 cents for each use of the word "Nantucket" (it's actually $3000, but we divide the royalties up amongst the entire population -- 50 cents is just my cut). However, if you can pull some strings to get us our own statehood (which we've tried for before) or our own nuclear missile base (from "Boston Legal"), I'll let my 50 cent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:There once was...here are the funny bits: (Score:5, Funny)
Whose dick was so long he could suck it.
While wiping his chin,
He said with a grin,
"If my ear were a cunt, I could fuck it."
--- and here is the extended version of the original ---
There once was a man from Nantucket
Who kept all his cash in a bucket.
But his daughter, named Nan,
Ran away with a man
And as for the bucket, Nantucket.
part 2:
But he followed the pair to Pawtucket,
The man and the girl with the bucket;
And he said to the man,
He was welcome to Nan,
But as for the bucket, Pawtucket.
part 3:
Then the pair followed Pa to Manhasset,
Where he still held the cash as an asset,
But Nan and the man
Stole the money and ran,
And as for the bucket, Manhasset.
Re: (Score:2)
In fact, being a native of Nantucket allows me to charge you 50 cents for each use of the word "Nantucket" (it's actually $3000, but we divide the royalties up amongst the entire population -- 50 cents is just my cut). However, if you can pull some strings to get us our own statehood (which we've tried for before) or our own nuclear missile base (from "Boston Legal"), I'll let my 50 cents slide.
Hey, you might not have your own state but you did have your own TV show [wikipedia.org]. That's more than my hometown (which has 20 times your population) has ever gotten ;)
Re:There once was... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:There once was... (Score:5, Funny)
There once was a company called Dell,
Who saw their costs starting to swell,
Labor in Lodz
Attracted their jobs,
So they told the Irish, "Go to hell".
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Just for the record, the correct pronunciation of Lodz in Polish is something like Woodge.
Cheers!
Re:There once was... (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe I can help.
The correct pronunciation of the word "Woodge" is something like the Polish pronunciation of "Lodz".
Re:There once was... (Score:5, Funny)
Dell, as they moved away, laughed,
"To pay your wages we'd be daft."
On pink slips they wrote
A rude little note
"Dude, you're getting the shaft!"
Re:There once was... (Score:5, Funny)
And when the Lodzians wanted their pay,
Dell ran numbers and told them 'no way'.
They moved to Myanmar --
like all industry stars --
where the workers get eight cents a day.
But labor still cost too much wealth.
(For some workers were older than twelve!)
Dell's great business plan,
could not involve man:
They were modeled on magical elves.
So Dell finally settled in Congo.
Every PC they now make, as you know,
is constructed on skimp
by two apes and a chimp.
(And the chimp's job security is low.)
willingness to relocate (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:5, Insightful)
Everyone in Eire with half a brain knew this was coming anyway...
Those relatively low tech manufacturing jobs were only ever going to be useful as a means of bootstrapping ourselves into a properly high tech economy.
Not sure the government knew this, but everyone smart working in tech did.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Not sure the government knew this, but everyone smart working in tech did.
I'd say that the government put it on their "let's not think about that" list and concentrated on making money before the bubble burst.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:5, Interesting)
Agreed. The Dutch voted against the constitution the first time (which was a surprise to the government, especially since they invested million in a semi-propaganda campaign) and weren't given a vote for the revised treaty because the government feared a rejection again.
Democracy 2.0. Give people a vote if you think they'll agree with you, take the vote away when you fear disagreement.
Democratic Deficit (Score:3, Interesting)
If the voters in the USA had had to vote yes in each State under plebiscite to amend the US constitution *or* to agree to accept new member States then I doubt it would have grown much.
And the USA did not have European conservatives fronting the funding for proxy anti-Federalism parties within the USA.
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:4, Informative)
Not to spawn a pointless off-topic flame war or anything, but at least we have a constitution and so the population gets to vote on it. If the Lisbon treaty, which isn't a constitution, were put to a plebiscite throughout Europe Ireland wouldn't be the only ones rejecting it, in fact support for the European project is probably higher in Ireland than anywhere else in Europe.
Anyway, back on topic, it's a shame for the people in Limerick where the plant was sited, however the jobs going are the assembly line jobs, Dells European planning and management structures remain in Ireland for now.
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:5, Insightful)
This is what happens when capital and goods can freely cross borders but people can't. Capital will simply chase poverty in a never ending circle around the globe. When one poor, desperate country starts to get wealthy, corporations will simply move to the next one, and let the first slip back into poverty.
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:5, Insightful)
This is what happens when capital and goods can freely cross borders but people can't. Capital will simply chase poverty in a never ending circle around the globe. When one poor, desperate country starts to get wealthy, corporations will simply move to the next one, and let the first slip back into poverty.
So what's the solution? If you get rid of the restrictions on people moving you destroy national sovereignty and identity. If you get rid of free trade/adopt protectionism you drag the economy down a few pegs and probably destroy at least as many jobs as you save.
I hate what we've become but I'm at a loss for how to fix it. Ideas?
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:5, Interesting)
You say "destroy national sovereignty" (and all of the restrictions therein) like it's a bad thing.
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:5, Insightful)
You say "destroy national sovereignty" (and all of the restrictions therein) like it's a bad thing.
You see restrictions where I see freedoms. Globalization has already created a race to the bottom for labor and environmental standards. Will our freedoms and rights be next in line? Will the United States be forced to adopt European restrictions on free speech [computerworld.com]? Will Europe be forced to adopt Islamic restrictions on free speech [outsidethebeltway.com]? Will the United States, Finland, Switzerland and Norway be forced to adopt stricter gun control laws?
The USA is not much different (Score:3, Informative)
As for Globalization, well USA is the current global top-dog expecting many other parts of the world to behave as it sees fit. We're probably a long way down this t
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:5, Insightful)
You say "destroy national sovereignty" (and all of the restrictions therein) like it's a bad thing.
You see restrictions where I see freedoms. Globalization has already created a race to the bottom for labor and environmental standards. Will our freedoms and rights be next in line? Will the United States be forced to adopt European restrictions on free speech [computerworld.com]? Will Europe be forced to adopt Islamic restrictions on free speech [outsidethebeltway.com]? Will the United States, Finland, Switzerland and Norway be forced to adopt stricter gun control laws?
What really bothers me about governments and large organizations in general is that they fail to understand the saying, "no matter how far down the wrong path you have travelled, turn back." Governments almost never say "this sounded like a good idea at the time but it's just not working, things are getting worse, time to abandon this idea and try something else." If they do say that, it's over the course of decades or sometimes centuries even though the knowledge of better solutions (or at least that this solution isn't working) has been around for a long time.
I wish there were some type of initiative/referendum that citizens could use to challenge laws, not because they are unconstitutional or otherwise legally invalid, but because they have failed to deliver the results that were promised. If there were a way to get rid of otherwise legally valid laws that can be objectively proven to be counterproductive, not because enough voters put enough pressure on the legislators to repeal the law, but because at least one citizen can rigorously prove that it has failed, this would represent real progress.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I thought Europe was more restrictive than the US in terms of free speech (didn't some guy in Austria go to jail for denying the Holocaust?)
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:4, Insightful)
Well they are both part of the EU so gp is wrong you can move from ireland->poland for free.
/. like to bitch about India stealing our jobs but really they need them more than we do. Think of it like global charity except they have to earn the money.... and it is involuntary. Try to see some of the good :/
Secondly, It is a GOOD thing that business' chase poverty! Something shitty happens to a country and big countries move in which will act to save their asses. Ireland will not become poorer than Poland because of this, as the summary says they are retaining higher paying post-secondary jobs. This could be rewritten to show how ireland is moving up in the world. Now they don't NEED the Dell jobs (atleast not as much as Poland does). This if left unfettered causes an equalization of wealth. Which is a fair thing, a good thing unless you happen to currently live at the top.
We on
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually Limerick's at least as much of a poverty-stricken dump as many places in Poland, and stuff like this will only make it worse.
Ireland has seen a lot of development and increased prosperity over the last while, but things like this show how transient that can be if you're too dependent on outside sugardaddies providing that prosperity. It's easy come, easy go for the organisations providing the jobs - if somebody else turns up with a bigger development grant and a workforce with lower wages, moving won't cost them a thought.
The trick is to take the inward investment and use it to build up your skills base so that ultimately you can stand on your own two feet, but that's a whole lot easier said than done. Places like Taiwan have done it rather beautifully, and Estonia, financial troubles apart, seems to be on the right track, but it's tough.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Unskilled laborers act as a warning to the young. (Score:3, Insightful)
Bad examples serve a purpose.
Let the 'unskilled laborers' fight over the shit jobs that are uneconomical to move overseas.
The wage for those jobs will naturally be low.
Life's a bitch. Thanks for playing...better luck next reincarnation.
The fair consequence of never developing skills is subsistence living.
Re:Unskilled laborers act as a warning to the youn (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Unskilled laborers act as a warning to the youn (Score:4, Interesting)
So let's have the government hold a gun to your head, take the fruits of your labour and distribute them to unskilled labourers. That should be okay, since life's a bitch and you might have better luck next reincarnation, right ?
Or we could try to make the life a little less of a bitch to everyone, including those unskilled labourers.
The fair consequence of being an arrogant jerk is to get whatever fate you callously wished upon those you considered lesser beings.
The basic problem (Score:5, Insightful)
The basic problem is that "free trade" never is.
"Free trade" concerning commodities that are easily made (or grown) in an area, like tropical fruit towards northern climates, is one thing.
"Free trade" based on paying workers shit wages, or based on the fact that one country (*coughmexshitcocough*) has absolutely crappy evironmental protection laws while their neighbors don't, doesn't - it temporarily drives down "costs" while ensuring that the environment gets ruined and poverty is taken advantage of.
The solution is "fair trade" instead - place tariffs on any and all imported goods from countries whose labor protection and environmental laws are inferior to our own, such that the cost to produce them there and them import is the same (or better yet, slightly more expensive) as doing the production either here, or in a country with proper worker and environmental protection standards. If the USA/Canada/European countries would do that, then the countries with shit worker protection and environmental laws will have to fall in line and we can actually get things addressed.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Your proposal is to take us back to the 1930s, which, if I might remind you, didn't work out so well. It took a long time to unwind the economic impact of protectionism. Imposing these standards on trading partners r
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't see how dropping restrictions on people moving will necessarily destroy national sovereignty or identity.
If you tell a Government that they can't control how many people cross their border is that not by it's very definition a restriction on national sovereignty?
How would it help anyway? How many Americans would really want to move to India when their job gets outsourced? How many Irish would want to move to Poland? Leaving aside the lower standard of living (compared to the US) in most places where jobs are outsourced what about language and cultural barriers?
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:5, Funny)
[in a heavy Indian accent]
CSR: Thank you for calling [company] technical support, my name is "Bob", and how may I service you this fine morning.
Customer: What?
CSR: Good morning, and how can I be helping you.
Customer: Morning? It's 9pm. Where the hell are you?
CSR: We are in ... uhhh ... New Jersey.
Customer: I'm in New York, and it's 9pm here.
CSR: Oh, I am begging of your forgiveness for my incorrectness in that statement, we are in the other New Jersey.
Customer: What?
CSR: We are in New Jersey, India.
Customer: {sigh} Ok, I'm having a problem with my some-computer 5100.
CSR: I am very sorry that you are having discomfort with your "some-computer 500", how may I help you resolve this issue.
Customer: No, a some-computer 5100, not a 500.
CSR: Oh, I am begging your forgiveness [balls up some paper by the handset] there must be line noise. So you have 50 some-computer 100 that are not working. I will have to transfer you to large business support, please hold [hold music]
Customer: WAIT!!
Ok, that sounds funny and all, but I swear I've had so many variations of that call, ONLY with off-shore call centers. It's not a matter that they're in India, it's that the people I always end up get have poor training, terrible phone skills, and an equal American in the position should be fired. Since the companies farm out the work to the cheapest places, they're hiring the cheapest employees too. Now, the American call centers seem to be reserved for the highest level technical folks, who have years of experience, and know what they're doing. It's just a nice added advantage that they speak English well. :)
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:5, Informative)
Oh like citigroup buying a spanish highway construction company with 7bn euros in bailout money from our taxes?
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10450514/1/citi-to-buy-spanish-highway-operator.html?puc=_tscrss [thestreet.com]
Here's the day they got our bailout check. Note the dates:
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN2636427520081126 [reuters.com]
Yeap we paid for it. Be pissed, very pissed.
I can't believe regulators aren't all over them for this. What are we paying them for? What good is all this bailout money doing if they are just using it to buy foriegn companies instead of saving the jobs of the people that effing paid for the bailout? Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. That bailout money did NOT come from Europe.
Here's the layoff announcement of the US employees:
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/154130/citigroup_layoff_could_decimate_it_jobs.html [pcworld.com]
grrr
-Viz
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's the problem. Assume a company employes 50 people making widget X. It costs the company Y$ so they sell it for Y$ + % profit. Widget X is used by the whole country.
Now, it's suddenly cheaper to make widget X in another country, so the company moves its operations. By doing this the 50 people lose their jobs, but now the entire country gains the use of widget X for a lower price than before. For a short time it sucks for those 50 people, but in aggregate society is paying less for an item which frees up more money for investing that one hopes would lead to jobs that would hire back those 50 people + more.
If you don't let the making of widget X move (or tax it so it's like it didn't move) you continue to support an inefficiency. The entire economy now supports this inefficiency for the perceived benefit of 50 people, when in the long run it's better for the whole economy and probably for those 50 people to lower the price of widget X.
It can be argued that this cycle is not one that can go on indefinitely, but it's a cycle that has risen the standard of living around the world for quite a long time.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What we do now is offset this drain on the economy (overall inefficiency) by outsourcing a lot of the production which allows you to actually purchase the products you want and need.
And when you outsource all of that production and gut the middle class whom is going to be left to buy your products? Playing devils advocate here but I've lived in an economically depressed region my whole life and I have yet to see any benefits come to my region from free trade. What I have seen is a lot of jobs shipped to Mexico (thank you NAFTA) and very few jobs coming into town to replace them.
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:4, Insightful)
The sooner we get rid of the petty tribal "us vs them" mentality we get from all the imaginary lines we've drawn on our globe, the better.
Those imaginary lines are a lot more important than you think. My country guarantees me several freedoms that other countries (or even the UN Declaration of Human Rights) don't provide for. You'll have a hard time convincing me of the wisdom of getting rid of those "imaginary" lines.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
No. YOU (and I, and any Slashdot reader from a modern Western democracy) have granted certain rights to our governments in exchange for them making certain aspects of our lives easier and safer. The governments of the world have no actual rights they can ever grant us, only rights they can (try to) take away.
Now, I
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If Free Trade worked, Mexico, America, and Canada would be doing better today then they were in the early 1990s
Citation needed. If protectionism worked, North Korea would be the wealthiest nation on earth.
Yes, it's class warfare. But the war is over, and the middle class has lost.
Yeah, just look at all those homeless people huddling in Apple Stores.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Besides, what you say is to be applauded, eventually the corporations will move around to even the poorest contries. Then the only way they will be able to make themselves poor again is by waging war or grossly mismanaging their governments (per the US model).
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:5, Informative)
Both Eire and Poland are in the EU, free movement of people is guaranteed. If the Dell workers want to keep their jobs they can just move to Lodz.
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:4, Insightful)
"Eire and Poland"?
Why half pedantic?
You mean Eire and Polska I guess. Or as most of us know then, Ireland and Poland.
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:4, Informative)
There is actually a good reason to use the Irish name here: it makes it clear that you refer specifically to the Republic of Ireland, not to the island of Ireland as a whole.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Cut him some slack man, we may be slashdotters, but we're still mainly american. And you know how well that bodes for our expertise in geography.
Hell, I myself thought he was talking about the lake, not the country.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Free movement of goods, money and companies is guaranteed. Free movement of people is certainly not [irishtimes.com].
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Both Eire and Poland are in the EU, free movement of people is guaranteed.
That's easy to say, but not so easy to do. Consider the following:
1. Moving usually incurs a huge cost, both in terms of time and money. When you're moving out of the country, those costs are multiplied.
2. Moving is stressful, and most people don't like forcing that on their family.
3. The social costs are high. You'd be leaving your friends, most of your family, and basically everyone you know behind. There's a reason that most people live within driving distance of where they grew up.
4. You'd have to l
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:5, Insightful)
Problem is, the number of poor countries that are stable enough to invest in is not large, and once a country becomes a wealthy, it rarely slides downwards very far. Thus, this should end relatively soon, as soon as corporations run out of countries.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Unfortunately, this illustrates that while tax breaks are nice, the cost of labor is still king.
Re:willingness to relocate (Score:4, Funny)
Shorter commute (Score:3, Interesting)
I suppose it is only reasonable. Now all these Poles who already work there will have much a much shorter commute. Good for them.
Not the first time .. won't be the last (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
The Race to the Bottom (Score:4, Insightful)
We the consumer, demand cheaper priced products, why should we be surprised when manufacturers look for methods of reducing their costs? You don't exactly see them firing up manufacturing plants in Tokyo or Manhattan.
It's a Global Economy, get used to it.
Re:The Race to the Bottom (Score:5, Insightful)
We the consumer, demand cheaper priced products, why should we be surprised when manufacturers look for methods of reducing their costs? You don't exactly see them firing up manufacturing plants in Tokyo or Manhattan.
Corporations also demand more profit. Reducing costs helps that bottom line. Whether moving manufactoring locations ends up positive on that bottom line or not isn't always clear at the outset.
It's a Global Economy, get used to it.
It's been a global economy for decades. That's not the change.
Numbers seem odd (Score:2)
Re:Numbers seem odd (Score:5, Funny)
The population of Ireland is somewhere around 6 million - what does every *else* do there?
Farm potatoes and brew Guinness.
Re:Numbers seem odd (Score:5, Funny)
There. Fixed it for ya.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Well the Republic of Ireland is closer to 4 million (the north is part of the UK). There is about 2 million working I believe. 4 million - children - old people easily gives you that.
It says corporate employer so that rules out all public jobs. And in Ireland that means most education and health.
Most major companies would only have one major location in Ireland, so even the big ones are a few thousand. So it is easily believed. You'd only need a 1000 companies employing 2000 people to employ the whole count
Re:Numbers seem odd (Score:5, Informative)
Actually they're not the second-largest corporate employer. That seems to be an incorrect inference on the part of the Washington Post, because the Dell Ireland website claims they're the second-largest *corporation*.. and the metric for that could easily be something other than employees, i.e. revenue. Of course, 1900 people isn't their entire Irish workforce either.
There are _definitely_ larger employers in Ireland. 1900 people at a single factory is enough to sustain a mid sized factory town of about 30,000 people (1/3 of Limerick). I know because I've lived in one. And I'm certain Ireland has a handful of towns that size and larger.
But just to grab some random Irish companies out of a hat and look them up: Eircom has 6,500 employees. Bank of Ireland has 16,026.
Good for Poland (Score:5, Insightful)
I realize that this sucks for Ireland but Poland is in far worse shape and needs the jobs just as badly if not more.
Re: (Score:2)
It sucks to give Poland a feather for its cap while it's under the thumb of such a pair of opportunistic bastards though.
Re: (Score:2)
> Poland .. is also one of the poorest countries in Europe
slight clarification:
that link says that Poland is one of the poorest countries in the EU.
i think Moldava and other European countries not in the EU may be poorer.
This is a tough one! (Score:2)
he had such a limp dick
he sold plants in Limerick
and sales went right straight to Hell.
Make 'em pay (Score:5, Insightful)
This really shouldn't be completely about the "world economy" and if it can be done cheaper in China, "why not"? It is completely fair to take into account other factors such as China's complete disregard for workers rights and environmental issues, not to mention truth in labeling with regards to all the poisons they put in food products.
Make 'em pay, it's the only way to get their attention.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
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The fact is, since China has the unfair advantage of near-slave labor, the rest of the world as a whole needs to have stiff import tariffs to equalize this imbalance.
Yeah! Because stiff tariffs worked out so well [wikipedia.org] in the past.
Re: (Score:2)
"Near slave labor?"
China has major human rights problems, but coerced labor in its manufacturing sector isn't one of them. They do seem to be responding well on environmental issues recently, and they took the consumer health / quality errors very seriously.
I see the trade imbalance driven by a deceptive ideology in the West that said that manufacturing was passe, that we could thrive with a "value-added" economy in which the West managed brands, did high-end conceptual work, produced "experiences", etc., w
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Thank you. Waving your hands at "Chinese slave labor" as a way to dismiss competition really grates at this point. Xenophobes: would you at least get your anti-China biases into the 21st century? Ain't slave labor at all. Employment in China is overwhelmingly volunta
Second largest employer? (Score:2)
On the side of people out of a job/paycheck, 1900 is terrible.
Re: second largest corporate employer? (Score:2)
POTATO FAMIN! (Score:3, Funny)
Less taxes. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The enticement at that point is that it's probably cheaper to stay there than move the entire operation, which means either disrupting shipments for a while or paying for 2 locations for a while. You have to be able to save a significant amount of money elsewhere to justify it. And you have to do either guarantee that savings, or do it in the short run to have it make sense.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Great logic there, comrade.
This calls for an Irish Limerick (Score:5, Funny)
Whose employment prospects grew lesser and lesser,
It at last grew so small
He had no job skills at all,
And now he's a college professor.
That's just economic development (Score:2)
This is economic development, and is good news, although I appreciate that it won't seem like that if you are one of the people laid off.
The reason Dell were in Ireland in the first place is because Ireland was the cheap labour centre of Europe. As they've developed, it's no longer true and their economy has been replaced by a knowledge economy. In many ways, cheap-ass manufacturing leaving your country because the labour is too cheap is a complement. Next, the same cycle gets to happen to Poland. Everyo
A good first start (Score:2)
That's a good first start. But how about we start putting huge tarrifs on shit that should be made in the U.S. but is coming from Poland? Send a clear message that cheap labor isn't the best way to make money.
Europeans, be happy (Score:3)
Hey guys I am from Poland (Score:3, Informative)
Hey guys I am from Poland and guess what? I can more or less speak english and even know how to post on Slashdot.
And there's more. We do embedded software and hardware here, we know Linux and it's been that way for years already.
So it's not different compared to where you live. And as for dell, easy come easy go. They won't stay here longer than 3-4 years and eventualy will continue moving east.
Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
Ok, maybe that's a little blase, but there are two points that have to be considered here:
1. Ireland is not nor never has been a manufacturing country. Sure there have be some manufacturing companies such as Dell, but essentially Ireland is a combination of a strong agricultural and tourism in rural areas with technological and financial bias in the urban areas. Dell is nice to have, and I feel sorry for those that have lost their jobs in Limerick - but it is not a core industry, even if it is a core employer.
2. Ireland has been growing at an incredible rate over the past 10 years, far faster than anyone could possibly hope to adapt to. Looking at the government's actions over this period, they have acted like lottery winners, squandering the growth to create an ever-burgeoning public sector. Coincidentally, the National Competitiveness Council in Ireland established that our competitiveness has deteriorated by 32% over this period. This loss as well as others is a good wake up call - and an opportunity to regroup and establish a firmer foundation for the future.
It is also important to note that Dell is not leaving Ireland - they are closing their manufacturing plant. Ireland's corporate tax rate is still extremely attractive to US companies.
Parallels (Score:3, Funny)
Like Bush, Micheal Dell did not forget Poland.
Thank you I'll be here all week.
That's fine (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:That's fine (Score:5, Insightful)
The distinction between "manufacturing" and "service" jobs is somewhat artificial. Every step in the manufacturing process is a service. Finding raw materials is a service. Getting them out of the ground is a service. Refining them is a service. Transporting them from place to place is a service. Assembling them together into a finished product is a service. Making the machines to do so is a service. All of these are services; "manufacturing" is simply a convenient shorthand to describe those services whose end result is an assembled physical product, as opposed to the many other services whose end result is not.
Thus, the fact that we have a service-based economy is not in and of itself a problem, provided that our services are sufficiently valued in world markets to purchase the manufactured goods we need as well as the other necessities and wants of life. It is a problem ONLY if our skills, or the products that are created using those skills, are no longer sufficiently valuable to earn us the kind of living we want, in which case, the obvious remedy (which scales up) is to learn new skills.
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I hope the textile industry never moves out of the united states.
I don't see how the US economy can keep going if all the woolen mills and shirtwaist factories shut down and take their jobs overseas.
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Don't forget hairdressers and telephone sanitizers.
Shit. DON'T GET ON THE SHIP!
-Peter
Re:That's fine (Score:5, Insightful)
So in that spirit, here's my "expert" analysis of world economic matters !
Isn't manufacturing computers just a service ? If you were Martha Stuart, you'd just get up early and grind-up the sand from the beach yourself to make your own CPU.
To my mind there's scant economic difference between a janatorial service and a manufacturing "service".
Furthermore; a janitor's job has to remain local and the janitor must be retained to keep the place sparkly, as opposed to a one-time manufacturing process for a durable item.
Janitors are an extremely high-value service, that's why so many of us have a personal computer built for us but don't have our houses cleaned for us.
Re:I don't care who slaps together my inspiron (Score:5, Insightful)
Having spent over an hour and a half on the phone with Dell Canada on Monday just to get a quote (and a quote for twenty computers I might add), I'd say there is such a thing as "too cheap".
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How many times have you had to clarify something, three times, to the person on the oth
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I can't wait to see what happens when our economy takes such a nosedive, and unemployment becomes rampant that companies start moving jobs here since our labor is so much cheaper than china, india, taiwain, etc...
Re:I don't care who slaps together my inspiron (Score:4, Insightful)
I can't wait to see what happens when our economy takes such a nosedive, and unemployment becomes rampant that companies start moving jobs here since our labor is so much cheaper than china, india, taiwain, etc...
Actually our economy won't get that bad but a lot of economists were talking about what $200-$300/bbl oil would do to free trade. At a certain point it will become more expensive to ship goods than to just produce them here at home. The various economists and talking heads all disagreed as to what that point was but all agreed that it would happen sooner or later if oil prices had kept skyrocketing.
Of course the economic meltdown has dragged oil down but how long is that really going to last?
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Frankly, i'm a little worried about all the typecasting in the tags for this article. You guys are just asking to get bombed by the IRA!
Ah you must be a leprechaun you pesky little fellu'.
Re: despicable tags! (Score:2)
That isn't going to happen since it has since become knowledge that the IRA was being run by the a branch of British security, the Force Research Unit [www.iol.ie]
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and we haven't even yet discussed "how many Polacks it takes to build a Dell"
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You're kind of assuming that:
People in developing countries somehow are only capable of making things for export