45% of Dutch Media-Buying Population Are "Pirates" 307
Anonymous writes "A non-government study in the Netherlands found that 4.7 million Dutch Internet users 15 years and older downloaded hacked and pirated DVDs, games, and music in the last 12 months — or, about 25 percent of the Dutch population. But there may be an upside to this unauthorized sharing/distribution: 'The average [Dutch] downloader buys more DVDs, music, and games than people who never download,' with illegal downloaders representing 45 percent of consumers who purchase content legally, according to the Institute For Information Law, which administered the study."
"Content" buzzword (Score:5, Insightful)
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actually , a file only contains bytes.
A program can convert those bytes to content , like text , audio ,video , which you can expierence with the hardware.
jurisprudence (Score:4, Insightful)
I believe in the rule of law [wikipedia.org] and do not give 'god-like' status to the government in my mind, or in my obedience to it.
Truth is not a democracy.
The content industry has spread lies and fears based on dubious hypotheticals. Now that it turns out that either they were totally talking out their ass, or had an ulterior motive. This should challenge the system to change, as it is an obligation of politicians and people of a republic.
But given that these multi-billion dollar companies likely didn't get where they are by being stupid, looking at the "real" threat of of a healthy commons, and recognizing the roots of the constitution where it says, "Congress shall have the power to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries", and compare it to what is going on in our legal system today...
There's only one possible answer. (Score:5, Funny)
ARRRRRRR!
Re:There's only one possible answer. (Score:5, Funny)
Just think how much more would have been purchased if all these criminals didn't have ready access to illegal material? Obviously, they would have purchased a copy of every single illegal download.
Because of they didn't actually make these purchases, millions of puppies in California had to be killed, because their owners couldn't afford to keep them into adulthood.
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I can't tell if you are being serious or not (good job if you aren't!)
I live in Canada so I guess this study does not include me... but I occasi
Re:There's only one possible answer. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:There's only one possible answer. (Score:5, Insightful)
And pot is legal too - that settles it, I'm moving out there...
Re:There's only one possible answer. (Score:5, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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Patronage only worked because the huge wealth inequalities at the time meant that some - usually kings, nobles and churchmen - had loads of money to spend and wanted to show off to others of their class.
I agree that copyright eriods are ridiculously long, but that doesn't mean the underlying concept is wrong.
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Don't forget that even bars and taverns would often pay somebody to play music because there was no mechanical way to reproduce music. Then you had playhouses that would cater to the less wealthy with plays, acts, and shows.
I agree that copyright periods are ridiculously long, but that doesn't mean the underlying concept is wrong.
My thoughts as well. Personally, I'd go for a 20 year automatic/commercial/'for hire' copyright, 40 year for personal copyrights.
I mean, people are still bickering about the beetle albums!
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Re:There's only one possible answer. (Score:4, Insightful)
I thought that many artists earn the real money these days by live shows, anyway? So they're quite content to have their - erm - content downloaded because it gets them known and so people come to the concerts?
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You still think this is about the artists?
Event the RIAA and record companies gave up on that line years ago, they've practically told us that the artist doesn't matter and its their profits that need protecting.
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Then go back to the way we did it for a thousand bloody years before the IP scam was cooked up! In case you didn't know we actually did have music and art before you could set on your ass and draw a check for 150+ years because you wrote a one hit wonder. It was called patronage and live performances.
And as a music lover I assume you will go back to the way we did for a thousand years and not listen to any music that isn't live? No downloads, do discs, if you aren't sitting across from the musician, no music? That work for you?
Legal in Europe (Score:3, Informative)
Example, There is NO reason why we shouldn't be able to buy prebuilt little multimedia servers designed to let us rip our CDs and movies and make them available anywhere in our homes. No more dealing with discs, the kids can watch what they want while the adults watch their own movies, etc. It would be very nice. But we can't have anything like that because the IP "holders" say you only have rights to play the plastic. So if the little bit of plastic isn't there than you can't watch it.
Well the situation is different in Europe :
You bought the little plastic thingie, you own the little platic thingie and you might do whatever you see fit with it, as long as you don't distribute the content without obtaining a license for it (or without the distribution case being one of the exceptions).
If you want to put it on a server (for you own use that's it - not for the whole 'net), you are free to do it.
Certain more recent laws like in Switzerland, even explicitely state that format shifting is allo
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The other IP industries don't need 150 years to make a profit, but they do need a limited time (15 years).
Or five years. That's the point, really, though, we should be having discussions about just how short copyright can be and still serve the purpose of promoting the creation and distribution of content, rather than whether it should last two lifetimes or three.
IMO, the content industry has shot itself in the foot with the massive increases in copyright terms. They're now so long that the vast majority of individuals have NO IDEA that copyright ever expires!
That, in turn, means that most people have at
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1) I have no obligation to provide incentives to anyone else to create anything. If they feel its worth their time, that's great. If not, I don't care.
2) If you back out of a promise or contract to pay for services after the services have been rendered, you have stolen. Ever hear the phrase "time is money"? You have stolen time. The harm is not physical, but it is certainly financial.
When it comes to copyright, I have never entered into a contract with any producers of copyrighted materials to provide
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First, this is slashdot, who RTFA?
Second, obviously, the group of downloaders are self-selecting. Some big media guy would argue that they are more of the target market for DVD's than the other group (non-downloaders). Therefore, if they didn't have the trivial ability to download video's, they would spend more of their money on actually buying videos.
This certainly is plausible, but I haven't seen any articles that make the case for causality (ie, downloading more makes you buy more).
And yes, my original
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At first I thought you said millions of "people". A little thrill went up my spine and I fired up uTorrent to do my part to depopulate California. Then I realized that you wrote "puppies". No more pirating for me.
Also selling well (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Also selling well (Score:5, Funny)
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so the Dutch pirates don't have a leg to stand on?
Re:Also selling well (Score:5, Funny)
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The Dutch don't buy anything [erothitan.com] if they can avoid it.
Of course this calls for (Score:5, Funny)
Stricter legislation! Harsher punishments! Bigger fines! Public whippings!
Re:Of course this calls for (Score:5, Interesting)
Exactly. And don't forget, more draconian DRM.
Case in point. I just bought an LG DN898 Upconverting DVD player (not HD, not BluRay). Per LG and the Best Buy rep it would upconvert to 1080i on the component (Analog) output. In reality? "Copyrighted" movies play at 480p (non-upconverted), copied, pirated, and other DVDs will play at the full upconverted 1080i.
Yes, they made it more appealing for the customer to get pirated movies now.
So thanks to this encouragement I have bought my last DVD and look forward to only expanding my library through pirating, as pirated movies will now look *better* on my TV! (Oh and no more commercials, FBI notice, or other crap I can't skip).
* If you don't believe me btw, just check here [lge.com] (Warning PDF), page 5 under component connection:
"For 720p and 1080p resolution on the component video output, only non-copy protected discs can be played back. If the disc is copy protected, it will be displayed at the 480p resolution."
Re:Of course this calls for (Score:4, Interesting)
That really is insane...
I wonder what the logic was.
"Perhaps if we make sure our paying customers get lower quality products than those who pirate perhaps they won't want pirated moveies any more!"
Re:Of course this calls for (Score:5, Funny)
I wonder what the logic was.
"If they were stupid enough to pay for that, they deserve to suffer."
Sounds like a BOFH to me.
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That really is insane...
I wonder what the logic was.
Maybe so they'd sell more DVD writers and blank discs?
Re:Of course this calls for (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually Moser Baer has done something similar in India. They crashed the CD/DVD prices from ~Rs.1000 to ~Rs.100 (USD 20 to USD 2)
People now obviously prefer DVD prints over the pirated cam print. This should be and is THE only way to kill piracy.
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Forgot to add.
Expect one of the RIAA advertising drones that seem to have been hanging out on slashdot to turn up and tell you that you're just being an evil thief who wants to justify his actions.
You see by complaining about DRM and stupid DRM features like you have experienced you're a "Pirate enabler" and since DRM is purely about stopping pirates you should really stop complaining, take it up the ass,let your hardware downgrade the video stream, sit through the unskippable advertisments quietly, feel gr
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You forgot to mention terrorists. Selling pirate DVDs is one of the main income sources for terrorists. If you pirate DVDs you might as well be killing your own family, or raping children or whatever it is that terrorists do on the weekend.
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Yes, they made it more appealing for the customer to get pirated movies now.
Looks more like they made it more appealing to get an HDMI cable (which costs around 5 EUR for 2-3 meters) - upconverting to 1080i works fine on my LG DVD recorder via HDMI. Plus there's no hassle with having to juggle multiple cables...
Re:Of course this calls for (Score:4, Insightful)
What if the original poster has an high definition display which doesn't have HDMI inputs (many such "HD ready" TV sets were sold before HDMI was standardised a couple of years go)? The fact that he/she checked the capabilities of the analogue component output with the manufacturer and the seller before purchasing suggests this might well be the case ...
Re:Of course this calls for (Score:5, Interesting)
I've got a set-top DVR / DVD burner / etc. that also encourages using pirated stuff, although for a different reason.
I wanted to copy my boxed DVD set of extended LOTR disks to the HD to (a) avoid having to swap them half way through the movies, and (b) keep the originals in pristine condition. This seemed to me to be very reasonable use for a DVR, but the film studios don't agree with me, so the machine won't let me do this for copy-protected stuff because the manufacturers can't obtain the relevant licenses and trademarks otherwise.
Fortunately, the box has in-built DIVX support and a USB port that can read thumb drives directly, so the solution is obvious: download a pirated DIVX version of each movie, stick it on a thumb drive, and then copy that to the HD, an operation that will also save me lots of HD space, and let me make backup DVDs of my LOTR disks with an entire 2-DVD movie on each. Score: Pirates 2, Genuine Version 0.
It should be noted that I haven't actually downloaded a pirate version yet because I haven't previously pirated anything unless it's the only alternative (e.g. I want something that's no longer available commercially), but this short-sighted policy has made me think about it seriously for the first time. I paid quite a lot of money for what amounts to a crippled product that prevents me from using it in a legitimate way that doesn't carry even the potential for any lost sales by the copyright owners, and if that's the way they treat their paying customers, then I can see no benefit in being one. I will not therefore be buying any more of their products unless they're in a bargain bin for price that's low enough to offset the fact that I'm buying a crippled POS whose true value is lower than that of a free version I can easily find on the Internet.
Re:Of course this calls for (Score:4, Insightful)
I could indeed rip my original disks to DIVX, but this merely serves to highlight the stupidity of forcing entire classes of consumer electronics devices to disable basic elements of their functionality in an effort prevent illegal mass content distribution that's already happening on a vast scale because CSS is such an ineffective protection mechanism that it might as well not be there.
Even more idiotic is the fact that they're doing this with home systems that no pirate of any sort would even consider using for piracy purposes. Professional counterfeiters need high-volume, high reliability systems, and amateurs use the Internet, so the only possible explanation for crippling domestic equipment with no Internet capabilities that's only designed to make a few copies a month is sheer bloody-mindedness.
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I'll wager that the pirates have a higher IQ than those that fail to pirate. Therefore beating them down is the right thing to do. Woe unto the nation that fails to beat down the intelligent among them! Let the dullards rule. It's natural law!
It's not all that surprising... (Score:5, Interesting)
On the face of it, it's illogical for them to buy anything but clearly there's some good reason for them to do so.
Re:It's not all that surprising... (Score:5, Insightful)
An unscientific look at my friends seems to suggest that the people who buy the most also pirate the most. There actually seems to be a fairly consistent ration between amount downloaded and amount purchased.
It's been common knowledge for quite some time now. Only the industry insists on ignoring it.
On the face of it, it's illogical for them to buy anything but clearly there's some good reason for them to do so.
A lot of downloaders have surprisingly high ethical standards. Some purchase a legal copy, don't install it (because of DRM) and download the cracked version instead.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's not all that surprising... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think 50+% of the people are actually opposed to copyright. They're just opposed to it being used as an excuse for harmful DRM and other complications. They want to see their movies and play their games, and don't mind paying for them if they're any good, but paying lots of money for crap that doesn't work gets tired really fast.
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Yes,
I download a great deal of material, why? Because it's easier.
I pay a subscription but I doubt the money is going to the artists, if the copyright holders could get their heads out of their asses and provide a single place where I could get everything I wanted- movies, music, ebooks, games from all studios and all providers without DRM and at a similar price then I'd be quite happy to pay them instead.
I do think copyright is broken, the lengh of time is insane for one thing but copyrights and patents ha
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Heck, the complete medieval, rome and shogun was on sale for 24 some months ago!
When Medieval 2 Total War came out, my PC wasn't even powerful enough to play it. Now I have a PC that can play it, and what do you know? I find the game for $10. Cool stuff. I just hope it doesn't have crippling DRM, but $10 is low enough to take that risk blindly.
I've paid over $50 (sometimes a lot more) for other games, but only when I knew in advance they'd be good and they'd work.
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The second hand market is somewhat the same, if you know you can sell it second hand when you are done with it, you should be willing to pay that much more for the product, or should be a little more willing to buy the product, leading to increased sales.
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No, but clearly the limit in the area of where those 90% are speeding should be raised. Particularly if they are using 1950's bias ply tire models to determine safe speeds through an area.
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It's been common knowledge for quite some time now. Only the industry insists on ignoring it.
Yes, its common knowledge that there is a correlation, but are they in anyway meaningfully linked. I mean, the pro-infringement camp like to point to this and say, look infringement is actually increasing sales... the more people download the more they buy.
But is that true?
Here, for example, is a simple hypothesis that explains the correlation:
People who aren't particularly interested in music aren't buying or downl
Re:It's not all that surprising... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, its common knowledge that there is a correlation, but are they in anyway meaningfully linked. I mean, the pro-infringement camp like to point to this and say, look infringement is actually increasing sales... the more people download the more they buy.
Pro-infringement camp? Your choice of words exposes your biased world view. Few people are pro-infringement. Sure, they exist, but most people are simply pro-being able to use stuff. How much they insist on paying money for that varies, but it's all about the content, not the infringement. That's just a by-product of getting at the content.
Does downloading music actually increase the amount you buy, or is it simply the case that the people who are most interested in music download and buy the most.
...
The only question is what percentage of those that chose to infringe it would have bought it if that was the only way to get it. Obviously, a huge swathe of them would simply have done without.
You seem to live in a fairy tale land where there's a magical dial to regulate the number of downloads. Illegal downloads don't cause stuff, they are caused by stuff. If you don't like illegal downloads, you need to look at the real causes.
Even more so, illegal downloads aren't even an interesting statistic to producers. They should only care about the number of sales. If sales and downloads both go up, they're still doing something right. If sales and downloads both go down, they're still doing something wrong. The downloads don't matter, the sales do.
A situation where downloads are impossible is simply not going to happen outside magical fairyland. All that matters is: how do you get people to buy your stuff. Stop seeing downloads as missed sales. Many of them are sales, many others would never have been sales.
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Well we could look at IP owners who saw sense and tried putting everything online for free.
Now if you're right then there would be no effect on their sales of DVD's and such.
If you're right then they would gain little from it and might even loose sales.
Now lets look at an example...
http://www.youtube.com/user/MontyPython [youtube.com]
http://entertainment.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/25/0041202 [slashdot.org]
Now to be fair they only experienced a marginal increase in DVD sales... barely enough to notice but still.
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A lot of downloaders have surprisingly high ethical standards. Some purchase a legal copy, don't install it (because of DRM) and download the cracked version instead.
I'm not supporting DRM, but isn't the illegal sharing of copyrighted materials is the cause of DRM at first place? I don't believe content creators woke up one day and thought making sharing their copyrighted materials harder is needed without any reason. If downloaders don't like DRM, then they should instead find legal ways to get over with DRM (ie. boycott, complain, sue) instead of giving a good claim to those using DRM on their products.
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I'm not supporting DRM, but isn't the illegal sharing of copyrighted materials is the cause of DRM at first place?
The fear that illegal sharing is hurting sales, certainly. Let's face it, copying software is as old as software itself, and trying to prevent that is almost as old. The problem is, it doesn't work. By its very nature, you can't prevent software from being copied, and invasive DRM is certainly the wrong answer.
If downloaders don't like DRM, then they should instead find legal ways to get over with DRM (ie. boycott, complain, sue) instead of giving a good claim to those using DRM on their products.
The downloaders aren't harmed by the DRM, the paying customers are (many of whom resort to downloading the crack despite having a legal copy). That's the entire reason why DRM is the wrong solution. I
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Re:It's not all that surprising... (Score:5, Insightful)
I have noticed this too. The people who consume the most, well... consume the most. They are just content whores :) Some they will pirate, things they can easily get and like they will buy as much of as they can. They just want the content, whatever is the easiest way for them to get it most of the time. At least this is what I have seen.
So smart producers will make sure that paying for it is the easiest way to get the content. That means paid downloads without crippling DRM. That means your HD DVD or BluRay should simply work at full resolution no matter what. That means CD you buy should be rippable so you can put them on your mp3-player.
Small detail (Score:5, Informative)
In the Netherlands downloading music and movies is not illegal (yet). Uploading is another story...
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there are other options, like downloading via newsgroups. See http://www.ftd.nu/ [www.ftd.nu] (warning: dutch) for example.
in other news... (Score:5, Funny)
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Mod parent funny or insightful depending on your mood. I smiled.
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Correlation or Causation (Score:2)
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Are they correlated or one causes the other? I don't think its clear.
They are quite clearly correlated. The causation isn't so obvious, but my guess is they're both caused by a desire for games, music and movies, and possibly a desire to get the best experience from them.
25% can't be wrong (Score:3, Insightful)
25% are "pirates".
So 25% of the population are criminals and should be in jail?
Sounds like the law needs changing to me..
(Anonymous Dutchman)
The other 55% (Score:5, Funny)
Two words: (Score:3, Insightful)
Piet Hein.
Go figure. (Score:5, Insightful)
Amazing what a test drive can do for consumer confidence.
It's a dup (Score:5, Informative)
It was previously covered here:
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/19/1440254 [slashdot.org]
And remember (Score:2, Informative)
downloading (only downloading, not uploading) is legal in The Netherlands.
Meanwhile... (Score:3, Funny)
In other words, the average speeder uses the road legally far more than the driver who only brings the car out of the garage to go to church on Sunday.
We should all be surprised by this, because the media tells us so. Please, everyone raise their eyebrows for the photograph.
It justifies (Score:5, Funny)
There are always excuses for illegally downloading these stuff. Overpriced materials, willing to preview before buy, outdated media etc. But those are not valid excuses at least these days. You can *live* without listening to every single tune. You can *live* without watching every single movie. If you enjoy watching a movie, and if you enjoy listening to a tune, go buy it. Just like you enjoy eating snacks and need to buy them.
For sure you can be ideologically against policies of movie studios, or labels. Then boycot them by making their products less popular, not by illegally download their content. If you do you're one way or another both infringe laws and making those you're against good.
There're more liberal licenses for distributing copyrighted materials like Creative Commons. Instead support artists releasing content in such a way. But if you don't do that, nothing can be an excuse of infringing copyright of others.
Most responsible party in this long going problem is those distributing content. I blame those download illegal content less than those sharing this stuff. Distributing does not serve any purpose. As I said it does not serve your mission of protesting policies of the movie studios or music labels in case that's what you want in first place. It even helps their domination.
Harm of this illegal sharing of copyrighted material is very huge in developing countries. Their government and public don't understand importance of intellectual property. If developed countries did not have good protection of intellectual properties they would not be able to produce quality music, movies or even software. Developing countries don't give importance to this and at the end of day they don't/can't produce rival products with their own resources, they instead stay addicted to copyrighted products of others.
In my country, Turkey, illegal copying is rampant. And I'll give example not from soft copies, but hard copies, like books. Over here there're lots of universities giving education in English. But you hardly find original books written by professors of local universities. Almost all universities use textbooks from US and/or UK. I'm not talking about grad level courses, but basic physics, mathematics, biology etc. Since most of these books are photocopied by students, professors don't *waste* their time to produce more suitable materials to be used by the local universites and probably rest of the World. They can write better books for their own students. They can give more local examples and students would understand topics better. But students buy illegal copies and somehow manage to pass courses. If they instead complain about expensive books or authority enforce them not to use illegal copies and make them complain anyways, some local professor would produce cheaper and even better materials. Inevitably this not only harm education also make those educated people lazy.
Illegal copying is like using drugs. You don't foresee any problem eary times and even feel good about it. But eventually it harms your body and future.
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Illegal copying is like using drugs.
i really can't see why this is modded funny.
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I do very little copying, but I'm pretty sure, if it's harming your body, you're doing something very, very wrong.
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funny thing is... copying music and movies isn't illegal in the netherlands. the 'excuse' for legally downloading movies and music is that I want to see or hear it.
Consumers are treated like thieves (Score:2)
Maybe it's because of in Belgium and Holland DVD are regularly prefixed with a clip - 2 to 3 minutes long - that warns that downloading or buying copied DVDs is illegal.
You can't skip these warnings, and very often when the end credits are done you get another text-only warning in 200 languages you can't skip either. And don't get me started on trailers for other movies before DVD menu's!
I bought the stupid DVDs, please don't annoy me with not skippable content and you-are-a-thieve warnings!
Or maybe it's be
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Wow. (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd have never thought that many Dutch went out on the sea and forcibly seized ships and stole their cargo. Seems rather high, are you sure you got your numbers right? Or perhaps you are using the wrong word?
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Piracy [gnu.org]
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IANAL but I am Dutch (Score:3, Informative)
Most interestin conclusion: 100M loss, 200M profit (Score:3, Informative)
The most interesting conclusion of this report has been left out of the summary.
The cost of downloading to society as a whole is estimated at 100 milion euros in 2008.
The profit (in cultural en social well-being) is estimated at 200 million euros.
Even though some suffer (e.g. the music industry), society as a whole makes a profit.
It's time people noticed (Score:5, Interesting)
--dave
Re:Economic downturn to blame (Score:5, Interesting)
After all, what's a dutchman (or woman) to do when they have the economy blues but hoist the Jolly Roger and go out for a good old pillage on the high seas.
The pride of our national history, the VOC [wikipedia.org] made much of its early profits through piracy. It brought us our Golden Age. It makes sens to go back to those pragmatic mercantile principles, right?
Even our prime minister lauded the VOC mentality a few month ago. (And got criticised for it because that includes slave trade and colonialism, but nobody mentioned piracy at the time.)
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Even our prime minister lauded the VOC mentality a few month ago. (And got criticised for it because that includes slave trade and colonialism, but nobody mentioned piracy at the time.)
Oh, I don't follow current RIAA slang.
I'm lost with colonialism, but slave trade is surely "mailing pictures of people", right?
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We could bring back the good old days by insisting upon our legal and moral right to sell opium to the people of China. There's more than one way to beat down the Chinese and make money while doing it.
Re:Correlation is not causation (Score:5, Insightful)
OK. I'll bite.
The article says that a lot of pirates are people that enjoy the content.
Sometimes, they even enjoy the content so much, they buy the official copy, just to inform the publisher that this formula works.
I'm one of them, I have piles of illegal movies and games and even bigger piles of CD's, DVD's and BD-ROMS of stuff I actually like)
Also, not all piracy is done because 'they want it for free'. If you want English subtitles in the Netherlands, you either have to import (illegal, won't play on DVD player) or download your movies, so I but the movie with dutch subs and download the one with English subs.
Oh, and yes, /sometimes/ it is worth the money to import (Ghost in the Shell, Evangelion), even if it costs >$75 to buy.
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Sometimes, they even enjoy the content so much, they buy the official copy, just to inform the publisher that this formula works.
Interesting. Do you have any evidence of this bizarre method of communication? Perhaps people who really, really enjoy the content go out and buy it twice, just to inform the publisher? Because, of course, the publisher gets this message back in an encoded signal from your credit card.
People buy the official copy for one reason; they want the higher quality and the added value of the genuine packaging and associated content. As with all market forces, individuals are largely motivated by self-interest.
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To make matters worse:
I have, in fact bought several CD's twice.
Mostly because the original got lost or I wore out the CD (Car CD player).
I can't tell you how many Hitchhiker's guides I have bought by now, only to be given away at birthdays and other special events.
OK, I accidentally bought FarCry twice, but it was still worth it.
Having bought crap in my early years because of merchandising (T2 game?), I now prefer to try a game before I buy it.
That still means I will buy a game if I like it. I am willing t
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Also, not all piracy is done because 'they want it for free'. If you want English subtitles in the Netherlands, you either have to import (illegal, won't play on DVD player) or download your movies, so I but the movie with dutch subs and download the one with English subs.
play.com will ship UK versions EU wide. Both the Netherlands and the UK are Region 2. That'll save you from buying the Dutch one at all.
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Indeed, and I have piles of Play DVD's :-)
Unfortunately, they don't carry as much Japanese and French movies/series as I would like.
Play actually provides the convenience Jedi_Alec seems to want, except you have to rely on your local postal company for delivery (some things get lost in transit).
They do, however try to keep you happy you if something does get lost.
Re: (Score:2)
fwiw, I've got about 180 DVDs and I have yet to have one that did not have English subtitles for the main feature. Most of them in the form of 'English (for the hard of hearing)' subs. It is true, however, that commentaries and the like often lack English subtitles and you're stuck with a selection of, usually, Dutch or French... German, Turkish, Spanish if you're 'lucky'.
But I am now deeply curious which movies GP had wanted to buy and found to only have Dutch subtitles. Even the plethora of Dutch DVDs
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You didn't get it right.
Why should people who like owning DVDs, Blurays and Games just buy stuff blindly ?
A lot of people I know download a movie first, and when they like it they buy a Bluray later on. I see this as a win-win for both sides.
Download statistics don't mean anything really.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What is this article trying to say? That copyright infringement is good because the people doing it are actually also buying a lot of games?
No, it's saying that the industry is fighting the wrong fight. They're attacking their own customers.
That's bullshit. There is no correlation here, unless you studied the purchasing habits of a set group of people who couldn't pirate stuff for a year and they could the next year.
What the hell does that mean? If the study shows that people who buy more also download more, and people who download less also purchase less, than that's correlation. It doesn't necessarily say anything about causation, but the correlation is quite obvious.
Hardcore gamers buy a lot of games. If hardcore gamers also pirate a lot, then this is a disaster for people making hardcore games.
No. People buying lots of games are not a disaster for people who make those games. Those people finding a different hobby would be a disaster, though.
Put yourself in the position of someone making a game. If the guy who doesn't pay for your game buys a lot of CD's, that doesn't help pay your mortgage or buy your groceries.
Pe
Re: (Score:2)
I like how you call methodology of study bullshit while you come up paragraph later with something smelling similar.
Bad customer with piratey tendencies are better than someone that just pirates. They don't cause aditional costs and biz still gets gets at least some profit from them, and evnetually each company gets their share. Sure, geting that one game of yours pirated while they actually buy someone elses stuff sucks, but it works both ways.
Re:Correlation is not causation (Score:5, Informative)
So by your logic if all a groups copyrighted work was suddenly available for download for free they'd have a massive dropoff in sales?
Sounds logical, I mean these guys went bankrupt as soon as they tried it.
http://www.youtube.com/user/MontyPython [youtube.com]
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Hardcore gamers buy a lot of games. If hardcore gamers also pirate a lot, then this is a disaster for people making hardcore games.
Unless you have the kind of data to back up your assumption that hardcore gamers would otherwise have bought *more* games, you just made one of them unfounded correlations yourself.
If people want the option to ever be playing single-player games, they need to stop assuming they can get them for free
Yep. Games like The Sims has clearly proven there's no room for commercially successful single player games. Or Bioshock. Or Sins of a Solar Empire. Or (insert list of umpteen non-MMO games that has topped the sales charts the pasts few years).
*Lots* of people, millions of them, buy games. Your points aren't invalid, but neither