Teachers Need an Open Source Education 440
palegray.net writes "Teachers are sorely in need of an education in what open source software is, what it isn't, and how it can benefit their students. A recent news story at the Reg discussed the case of a Texas teacher who accused those distributing Linux to students of committing criminal acts. A HeliOS blog entry exposes a 'higher education' culture of apathy, lies, and fear of open source software. Things have got to improve, and that improvement needs to start with misguided teachers getting their facts straight."
citations please .. (Score:2, Insightful)
Citations please, does 'Karen' really exist, is this even true or just someone looking for hits to his blog.
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Re:citations please .. (Score:5, Informative)
Not only that, when the story first 'broke', I tried emailing the AISD, they never heard of a 'Karen' involved in the alleged incident. The only source is on that blog
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The fact is whether or not it was made up it's clear that people don't value open source because of the damage from MS' monopoly and the fact people automatically think things are priced correctly so something free is junk. Open Source software does seriously lack marketing though which would help.
This is also why they buy cheap shitty clothes for a huge cost because of the brand.
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Believe it or not, some teachers are educators and believe in education.
Fixed that for you. I was a mathematics instructor for over a decade. I left that profession largely because of insufficient pay, a lazy and apathetic student body, unconcerned administrators, and incompetent colleagues. I shared several math classes at university with education majors. They were uniformly the worst students in the class.
Re:citations please .. (Score:4, Funny)
Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
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I agree. It was one thing when this story was first discussed because it was an interesting case in point. But at this point "Karen" has been discussed enough that either she should come forward, the kid should come forward some witnesses should come forward or we should stop treating this as anything more than a questionable tale.
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And isn't that the whole point of questioning the blog in the first place?
Re:citations please .. (Score:5, Insightful)
You having a black sheep is one thing. You saying you have a black sheep is another. And you saying that someone else (that I've never met or heard of) has a black sheep is yet another.
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according to TFB, only her last-name was withheld. Maybe he decided to further obfuscate things, but if that's the case then he also lied about it.
Re:citations please .. (Score:4, Insightful)
Uh, why? Some of the best known hoaxes have been elaborate, detailed lies similar to this (some on much broader scales). So the whole argument that it was elaborate, so it must not be a hoax is just nonsense, based on actual real-world hoaxes as well as simple logic.
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Actually, most elaborate journalistic hoaxes have fallen apart not because of internal inconsistencies, but because they are too successful, draw lots of attention, and then get people to follow up on them and find out they aren't true. (e.g., they fail based on external, rather than internal, inconsistencies -- the fabrications of Stephen Glass at The New Republic, for instance.)
But, at any rate, even if we were to a
Lack of knowledge not an excuse (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Lack of knowledge not an excuse (Score:5, Interesting)
You must be new around schools... :-)
I've worked with "Head of IT" Teachers who can't install a simple application and don't understand "read-only" attributes.
I've worked with IT teachers who teach that the main components of a PC are a monitor and a hard drive "which contains all the other bits of the computer, including the CDROM".
I've worked with IT teachers who have NEVER programmed a single line in their life, trying to teach people how to use a programming language.
I've worked with IT teachers who are reluctant to let go of their floppies because they can't handle USB drives.
I've worked with IT teachers who have *zero* concept of licensing and just install everything everywhere.
Unfortunately, I met most of those people while working at a specialist IT secondary school / Academy.
It's common to most schools and to most subjects and even to most teachers - they might have a *related* degree (i.e. maths teachers with physics backgrounds, or even IT teachers with "business" backgrounds) or an actual degree in their subject but it doesn't mean that they understand the most fundamental things they are supposed to be teaching.
There are exceptions, as always, but it's true for the vast majority. At one point, I was tempted to do the extra 1 year PGCE in the UK in order to go back into those schools and show people that, actually, a network manager can do their job in a trice, but they can't hold a stick to a good network manager. Unfortunately, it would mean having to come down to their level for that entire year and I'm not sure I could manage it without pissing myself laughing.
Re:Lack of knowledge not an excuse (Score:4, Insightful)
I've worked with them too, here in the US.
And guess what, they're not different from the vast majority of people, either.
Re:Lack of knowledge not an excuse (Score:4, Insightful)
I am a network engineer for FWISD, and not only is this a fact, but it is much worse in reality than any of these posts even infer to. Most teachers do not understand the basics of technology, much less trying to get them to use an open source product, they refuse to read help files for simple apps. How do you propose to get them to peruse through "Open Source" blogs written for Geeks. The problem lies in the fact that teachers are some of the hardest people to teach anything to as many believe they are so educated that you couldn't possibly have anything of value to teach them.
MCSE+I, CCNP, NT-CIP, N+, A+
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Re:Lack of knowledge not an excuse (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Lack of knowledge not an excuse (Score:5, Insightful)
I always hated that quote. How about "those who do can't teach".
The thing that people often forget is that teaching itself is a serious talent/skill. Just as often, as a twit teacher, you'll find the knowledgeable people who can't communicate an idea if their lives depended upon it.
Ideally, you get someone who knows their subject and has a passion for teaching. Unfortunately, those people are quite rare.
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The thing that people often forget is that teaching itself is a serious talent/skill.
Are you from the teachers Union? That is a fat load of bullshit. Since they have been running that line, geting more and more people shut out of the schools, the quality of education has dropped.
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You raise a good point. Back in the days of one room schoolhouses, they used to accept any available woman, which you would think meant a lousy education, but those one room schools turned-out some of America's best and brightest.
If you have the knowledge, teaching the knowledge is no special trick. You just need a little bit of patience (i.e. don't beat your students because they say 20 + 20 = 50).
Re:Lack of knowledge not an excuse (Score:5, Interesting)
This teacher was a moron. Plain and simple.
You worry about when teachers only "teach" with their ignorance while abusing their position. What happens when they use that same ignorance to pursue prosecution from outside authorities and to have the student permanently expelled?
I have been in the Principal's office with the police in the room with the Principal screaming like an idiot asking for me to be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. My crime? I was in possession of the Anarchist's Cookbook. Spittle was flying across the room while passages were being read that described thermite and 10 ways to kill somebody with your finger. It was taken from my backpack from another teacher when I left it in class. The police actually had to calm her down to explain to her that I had broken no laws whatsoever. It took 2 weeks to get me back into school by going to her supervisors and pointing out that I did not even break any rules in school.
I was also through the same situation later on when a teacher that taught computer science claimed that a file left on a "hacked" server proved I was the perpetrator. Why? It had a line of text that said, "Ed did this". Seriously, that was the CSI level proof that required my expulsion from school. I knew the kid that did it and he thought it was absolutely hilarious what happened. At the time my ethics demanded I did not "squeal", so I never said I knew who did it.
It's one thing for people to completely ignorant of what open source software is, licensing models, copyrights, fair use, etc. It's another when they use their ignorance and position of authority to force their ideologies on a student. That's just inappropriate when a teacher does that.
It's something else when a teacher sets out to destroy you over their ignorance. It sucks since a student is most often left in a position that they can't defend themselves at all, even when they are right and innocent.
Re:Lack of knowledge not an excuse (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Lack of knowledge not an excuse (Score:4, Insightful)
I did that, and got caught with a copy of it...
We had a very good chemistry teacher, who thought it was good i was taking an interest in chemistry.
She gave us a lecture about how dangerous these things could be, and how we should only follow the recipes in controlled environments and small quantities, ie chemistry class... Then she demonstrated a few of them, and regularly demonstrated more in other lessons.
The fact the class was teaching something many of the kids were actually interested in meant that attendance to her class and resulting grades were way above the average for the school.
Re:Lack of knowledge not an excuse (Score:4, Interesting)
I have been in the Principal's office with the police in the room with the Principal screaming like an idiot asking for me to be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. My crime? I was in possession of the Anarchist's Cookbook. Spittle was flying across the room while passages were being read that described thermite and 10 ways to kill somebody with your finger. It was taken from my backpack from another teacher when I left it in class. The police actually had to calm her down to explain to her that I had broken no laws whatsoever. It took 2 weeks to get me back into school by going to her supervisors and pointing out that I did not even break any rules in school.
I was also through the same situation later on when a teacher that taught computer science claimed that a file left on a "hacked" server proved I was the perpetrator. Why? It had a line of text that said, "Ed did this". Seriously, that was the CSI level proof that required my expulsion from school. I knew the kid that did it and he thought it was absolutely hilarious what happened. At the time my ethics demanded I did not "squeal", so I never said I knew who did it.
It's one thing for people to completely ignorant of what open source software is, licensing models, copyrights, fair use, etc. It's another when they use their ignorance and position of authority to force their ideologies on a student. That's just inappropriate when a teacher does that.
It's something else when a teacher sets out to destroy you over their ignorance. It sucks since a student is most often left in a position that they can't defend themselves at all, even when they are right and innocent.
It sounds to me like you had also demonstrated your own ignorance of the culture you were exposed to. In a day where kids are bringing bombs and guns to school because they got one too many swirlies, you can safely assume a teacher to feel threatened and scared when a kid is packing the Anarchist's Cookbook in his backpack. If you were a little less ignorant, you might have left it at home where your privacy is more or less assured.
Not that I'm agreeing with the reaction of the principal. I had a similar experience when, on a day where the sky was pissing great floods of rain, I made the mistake of putting a hat on before putting my hand on the door to the outside and the principal snatched it off my head. "No hats in school", he said with a smirk as he glanced out at the torrent. So I gawked in disbelief and went to my car. I started to leave but the principle of what the principal did was soaking in to me as the rain was soaking into my hair and dripping down into my shirt, so I stopped by the office to demand my apparel back. The office ladies said they could page the principal up, but I said "No, I'm so mad at him I don't want to see him. I'm afraid I'd hit him." Wrong thing to say about a man with short-man-in-power syndrome. The next day I was called into the office where a police officer was waiting for me and the principal was ranting about how I had physically threatened him. Me, a student with no record of ever having been called to the office, a student that made good grades and was on the drumline, a rail that weighed all of 145 pounds, that made the mistake of using the word 'hit' in a sentence that involved a pissant in authority. I mean, I could understand if I had come in to that office with a knife and a letter that said "I'm going to kill you" and asked one of the office ladies to deliver it to him, that might be a threat, but I came in looking like a drenched cat and I was pissed that this guy had fucked with me on a rainy day just to ruin my afternoon. I wasn't exactly oozing violence at that point. So in short, I agree with your premise. Fucking school administrators. Piss on them.
try to make life easier for your teachers... (Score:3, Insightful)
I think the problem is that most people have such painful memory at school, so much that the last thing they consider is to go back to school and teach for the rest of their lives. Besides the perceived bad work environment, many people also consider the salary too low to be a viable career option. But if you can't increase the salary, at least improve the work environment to make it better. This will attract more qualified candidates and cause a competition to increase the teachers' knowledge level.
Fortuna
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Whats more of a concern is that there are a lot of people who take everything the teacher says as the gospel. Years later, you run into these people, and they have an incorrect assumption about how something works. You try to correct it, but they have a hard time believing you because that teacher supposedly has far more credentials.
Of course I really cannot blame the teachers in all circumstances here, because for every ignorance-related gaff, there are probably several forgivable brainfarts. I think th
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Whats more of a concern is that there are a lot of people who take everything the teacher says as the gospel. Years later, you run into these people, and they have an incorrect assumption about how something works. You try to correct it, but they have a hard time believing you because that teacher supposedly has far more credentials.
This seems to be a small part of the problem of taking education as gospel. I am still working a fair bit of what I take for granted out of my brain. It's probably on close to a weekly basis that I realize that I'm not sure how I "just know" something, and on further reflection realize that it's because a teacher told it to me, and it turns out to be completely inaccurate. It wasn't until college that I realized that nothing they were teaching was "absolute" but it took even longer to realize that I had
Re:Lack of knowledge not an excuse (Score:4, Interesting)
Most teachers aren't smart. Sorry but it is true. They think they are they brag how they have a masters degree. (and complains that it is the lowest paid job that requires a masters)
I am not saying they arn't really good teachers out there who are incredibly smart and excellent teachers but most of them are not.
First lets cover why they became a teacher. They will say they want to help kids etc. That is the BS answer. The real reason is because they have a lack of imagination on what other jobs are available that offer a middle class life style. They know what school is and what the job as teacher mostly consists of. So they spend their life in the school system because it is what they know.
Second Fear of Math and Science, why is there a shortage of Math and Science teachers. Because people go into teaching as it is a degree that you don't need to take Advanced Math and Science class. They don't even have to take pre-calculus (Depending on the college and state). All their courses are taught in a similar fashion mush like English classes. While Science and Engineering Majors need to take some of those type of classes and more Math/Science driven classes, we actually get a more robust education then the teachers do. The people who are not afraid of math and science go to a degree that will pay better.
Third the Masters degree is a joke. The schools know it is required for these people to continue their career, so they are not going to make it tough or challenging. It is more the same except the course numbers are 500s and 600s with perhaps one bigger paper thrown in. Heck there is even a class that teaches the teachers the current slangs for sexual references, that they might cover in the class. Even the MBA program which is light and fluffy compared to Science and Engineering Masters degrees teaches useful skills and concepts and when needed they tell you you are going to need to use Math to solve these problems.
Forth tenured jobs are way to secure. I understand the reason for tenure is to protect the teacher from government pressures or from parents (say you were also a coach and you didn't let Johnny, son of a House Representative in the basket ball team because he absurdity sucked, so he called on daddy to get you fired, your protected) But it creates a counter culture which puts people in a lull. If your job isn't at risk and the union will avoid any pay for performance measures, what motivation do you have to teach at high quality and improve yourself. You are not going to change careers as yours is safe and a guarantee raise. So over time the teachers mind just kinda rots to a point where it teaches what he/she has taught for the last 20 years, only adding a new tidbit of information every 5 years just so kids realize that we have actually landed on the moon.
Fifth their ego, our culture want they put them as being smarter then everyone else, which actually creates and opposite effect. For example at the time I had a job which did laser printer repair (including the color ones), however I was brought on board as a software developer The bubble pop forced be to do both jobs. I couldn't convince a teacher that the primary colors that they taught us in school are incorrect (Red, Blue, Yellow). But there are 2 sets of primary colors depending if they are pigments which absorb light (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow) or admit light (Red, Green, Blue). She was so stuck on what was on the Elementary School art color wheel, and her rational is that is a teacher with a masters degree so she is right.
There is massive resistance from teachers when they are forced to learn something themselves. A class on public relations to teach them to better handle parents and students. Technology education... You name it after they get there masters degree learning has stopped for most teachers.
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Can you explain this to me? I've never heard that certain pigments admit light. What is this all about?
Not the GP, but I think I can explain what this is about: One set of primary colors (RGB) is for "additive" mixing - when you actually have light of these three colors and mix it (e.g. if you have three spotlights, or the subpixels of a monitor). The other set (CMY) is for "subtractive" mixing, which happens when you use pigments that absorb certain spectral portions of white light (e.g. when printing or
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Yes.
to hell with teaching OSS. How about teaching basic computer use.
I used to manage an IT team that did support for several schools. Teachers are some of the Dumbest people when it comes to computers.
Honestly, our education professionals are incredibly under-educated about the tools they use. They should be at least proficient in using a PC and understand the basics of them. Most do not at all.
This is 2009 for Cripes sake, There is zero excuse to call the monitor the computer and the computer the
Just try to teach the teacher (Score:3, Insightful)
Back about 1985, I had a job training teachers at a school how to use a PC. It was supposed to be an intro class on DOS, how to format a floppy, copy files, list files. It was one hour, twice a week, and I don't remember how many weeks, but not a great number. There were a couple of people there that honestly wanted to learn about computers. But, there were some that came in with a closed mind and an attitude problem. One woman was determined to be as unpleasant as possible.
The program was run through a loc
What?! (Score:5, Insightful)
Things have got to improve, and that improvement needs to start with misguided teachers getting their facts straight."
Getting their facts straight?
The first improvement must be raising the bar for the teaching community.
This includes, among other things:
- Raising salaries: It won't work to appeal only to the rejects.
- Firing for gross incompetence. As works with just about everyone else.
- Requiring a higher level of knowledge and teaching abilities.
Also, it would be nice to raise the public awareness about the importance of the teaching profession. One of the main pillars of the future of a country is currently seen as just a simple job anyone can do.
Just my humble opinion, and I'm sorry if I offended you.
Re:What?! (Score:5, Interesting)
I agree with your points 2 and 3, but there is serious risk of raising salaries too much. Especially at the younger levels.
The desire to teach is a HUGE positive in a teacher, and currently most teachers could be making more money. This means they are taking a portion of their pay in job satisfaction (don't let them fool you, it is a great job that makes you feel good).
Paying enough that teaching appeals to people in it for the money is risky.
Also, teachers with a good education make decent money, certainly as much as any other entry level job for someone with a liberal arts degree. I don't know what people make with science backgrounds though, but I bet it is more.
Frightening hypothesis (Score:5, Insightful)
You make some good points but I am a bit frightened about your hypothesis that paying people a good salary to do a job they love is risky, and if you only pay people a poor salary then you'll gte higher quality staff as only the highly passionate will apply to do it.
My personal opinion as a university researcher who works alongside teachers in a local secondary school is whatever they get paid, it isn't enough! :-)
And seriously, pay high, then lots of people will compete for jobs, then the school gets to choose a high quality teacher. I'm afraid I don't buy the line that if you want really high quality staff, pay really low wages.
Children are the future of society, the people we'll depend on when we're old and need to rely on others. Surely we want to spend as much as possible on their education, it's what they do for most of their waking life for ten years...
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Like all Jobs pay them enough to consider the job in the first place, pay them enough to stay, don't pay them so much that any idiot will try and do it .... Managers get paid a lot and a lot of them should not be doing the job ....
Re:Frightening hypothesis (Score:4, Insightful)
The big issue (at least in the United States) is with the teachers' unions. Due to union regulations, most salaries are dependent on time spent teaching, and not important criteria such as competence or subject matter. Good teachers should be paid more than bad ones, to promote incentives, and people who teach tougher subjects should be paid more than those who teach easier subjects. i.e. if there are fewer people qualified to teach math than English, math teachers should fetch higher salaries. Good luck with that, though!
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In principle, yes, it shouldn't be necessary to have to provide a big salary to attract the best teachers to the profession.
But the problem is that some of the most valuable core skills in teaching will often net you double the salary and double the prospects for promotion in the private sector than they will in your local comprehensive. Once you throw in long hours, interminable bureaucracy, very high stress and kids that really don't want to be taught and have no concept of discipline, teaching becomes a
Re:What?! Teachers shouldn't have to suffer - (Score:5, Insightful)
You said:
Paying enough that teaching appeals to people in it for the money is risky.
I'm sorry but at best this is silly. Its the logic that has been used for years to underpay teachers. I live with a 4th grade teacher, my mother was a special ed teacher, my sister was a music teacher and their salaries were/are all horrible. They all had/have Master's degree and I make 2x what they make/made. I personally would teach but the household can't afford the salary cut.
If we are going to apply the principle that you espouse - that people need to suffer to teach to the teaching profession we should do the same thing to others such as doctors, lawyers, and engineers of all kinds. Surely we want them to be passionate about their jobs just like teachers!
Re:What?! (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, it would be nice to raise the public awareness about the importance of the teaching profession. One of the main pillars of the future of a country is currently seen as just a simple job anyone can do.
Just my humble opinion, and I'm sorry if I offended you.
I agree with your comments, and would add:
Parents need to take an positive, active role in their child's education
I know a lot of teachers, and they have far too many stories about parents who whine:
"It's your fault my little darling is failing. You aren't doing enough. What are you going to do to get them to pass?"
Of course, the parent has been told repeatedly that their darling cuts class, fails to turn in work, is high in class, misses makeup tests, etc., and there response is to do nothing and continue to blame the teachers.
Not to mention those that try to call teachers at home, on weekends, etc. Even though any teacher with half a brain doesn't give out home numbers parents find them any way.
I couldn't teach, because the first time I got that "What are we going to do?" crap I'd tell them unless they got a mouse in their pocket there isn't any we in this. And flunk their sorry kid.
Call me at home and you're likely to discover your phone number has been mistaken for a free sex number.
No wonder many of the good ones leave for other jobs where they don't have to take all this crap.
Re:What?! (Score:4, Funny)
Call me at home and you're likely to discover your phone number has been mistaken for a free sex number.
Um, tell me more about these 'free sex numbers'. I'd, er, also like to give these out instead of my home number..
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Setting parental expectations is something that schools need to do. Parents need to know what their part of education is. And maybe someone should talk to the "little darling" and find out why they dislike school so much: too easy, too hard, wrong subject matter. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a school to try and engage a student.
Re:What?! (Score:5, Insightful)
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What a strange place you live in. In MA & NY you are required to have a Masters degree within 2 years of starting teaching. With that 5-6 years of school, you may make as much as 45K after 6 years - in a state with one of the highest costs of living in the nation. All of this sets up a situation where the only people who stay teachers are those with a passion for teaching children. Everyone else moves into corporate training where t
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Re:What?! (Score:4, Insightful)
- Firing for gross incompetence. As works with just about everyone else.
- Requiring a higher level of knowledge and teaching abilities.
So...abolish the NEA?
Frist psot? (Score:5, Insightful)
The use of F/OSS software in education at ALL levels would be a total boon for IT education across the board. Interest in alternative licensing, for example GNU Public and Creative Commons would be tremendously beneficial in this age of free information sharing and distribution.
I distinctly remember a question on a sample IT GCSE paper from when I was at school, related to anti-virus software:
Q. Your friend tells you that his computer has a virus, and wants help. What do you do?
A. Tell him to purchase an anti-virus product.
B. Tell him to send you the virus so you can scan it with your anti-virus software.
C. Give your friend a copy of your anti-virus software.
D. Tell your friend to download a "cracked" anti-virus program from the internet.
I selected C and got it wrong. I spent 25 minutes arguing with my IT teacher about AVG and free software. He agreed, and told me that the paper was wrong. However, the mark scheme said A. and that's how it was marked.
No idea if they used that question, or similar, at any point.
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Secondly, the ICT Teachers at the school I used to tech for (Midlands, UK) would insist on calling the entire case of the PC the "hard disk" even in class. I felt so sorry for those kids, but I couldn't say anything about it. It's what the spec said.
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Even more people, including those that should know better, call the entire case "The CPU." I'm sorry, but "The CPU" hasn't filled an entire case since the pre-microcomputer era.
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That reminds me of a story that was supposed to happen sometimes in late 80's in Prague. The police tried to confiscate a dissident's computer (I believe the dissident was actually Vaclav Havel). They took the keyboard and the monitor, writing them down in the report as "computer" and "TV". They left the main body on his desk, telling him that "he can keep the amplifier".
AVG not free (Score:4, Informative)
Any commercial use of the software, and any resale or further distribution of the software, other than as expressly authorized by this agreement, constitutes a material breach of this agreement and may violate applicable copyright laws.
Looks like you were advocating copyright infringement. Clamwin [clamwin.com] is the only Free Software virus scanner I know of.
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Teachers are bureaucrats, the right answer is irrelevant. They are verifying you understand the curriculum not what is true.
this is an american phenomenon (Score:5, Informative)
Here in Germany, I never experienced any hostility towards open source software in the educational system.
The universities are quite supportive of open source and lend their infrastructure to host mirrors for various distributions.
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schools are also open source friendly as long as there is someone who can support the software a bit.
Priorities (Score:4, Insightful)
You could write a list several pages long about what teachers 'need' to know or the teach, each of them is a huge deal to someone somewhere. Schools teach HTML using tags that would make the W3C tear their hair out, few schools teach proper web safty or how to more effectively use search engines, there's only ever a narrow range of programs taught etc.
Each of these things is a big issue but all these things can never be resolved. You only have so many school hours in a day to teach people. Yes learning CSS alongside HTML would be good, but that takes time and is harder to teach. Yes teaching OO alongside Office would be beneficial but again that takes more time.
There's only so much you can teach classes before students either get overloaded with too much info in too little time or you have to push something out.
It's why so many places force teachings of things like slavery or the holocaust. You can't cover all of world history in a history class so you have to prioritise some things at the expense of others.
Why should this be different? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do we expect this to be different than everything else? New things are initially feared and only approached slowly. It's the way we've done it since the dawn of time.
Techies are on the bleeding edge of everything and keep themselves informed constantly. But just like I don't follow car news, most people don't follow computer news. They don't have any clue what 'open source' really means and they don't care!
The solution isn't to call them names, the solution is to just keep educating people about it... Slowly.
Open Source has been gaining momentum lately. It used to be it was 'free and able to be modified, but poor quality'.
Recently, I've seen a change. It's now 'free and able to be modified, and almost as good as commercial software'.
I believe it will soon be 'free and better than commercial software'. I certainly like Kubuntu better than Windows and OS X, and I used to really hate Linux because it was such a pain in the ass all the time. I just wanted to do things, I didn't want to constantly reconfigure the system and deal with all the broken bits from the latest update. Kubuntu still has a lot of that, but it only happens every 6 months, instead of every few days like it used to. (Debian Stable was -not- stable. And Slackware was much worse.)
Open source has definitely taken over for anyone who 'gets it'. At this moment, I've got Firefox, OpenOffice.org, Aptana (based on Eclipse), VLC, and Kate running on OS X. The only commercial apps I run now are ones that don't really have a replacement, like Pages (company requirement for internal docs), and a few that are just plain better than the alternatives, like VMWare. (I've fought and fought with VirtualBox, and I'm done.)
But to expect non-techies to know all of this all the time is absurd. Most of the advancements that make my system possible came in the last couple years. That is a -short- timespan for learning about new things that aren't in your realm of knowledge.
In fact, I see posts on /. all the time talking about how someone put OO.o on a family member's computer and just didn't tell them it wasn't Office because they couldn't explain the difference. If techies can't explain it to their family, why do we expect teachers to know automatically?
And 'sorely in need' of an education in open source? That a personal agenda and not something that is necessary at all. Kids will learn about open source on their own, no matter whether a teacher says it is bad or not.
Cost, Maintenance (Score:5, Interesting)
Why is it all about teachers? (Score:3, Insightful)
This seems to be alarmingly biased. It's more about bashing teachers than anything else. Are teachers, as a whole, any less informed about Open Source than the general public? I don't think so.
This is just taking a couple of alleged incidents, with no real proof that they happened, and turning it into a political screed. So why is it that the teachers bear all the responsibility, when it is not even part of their curriculum?
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
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Are teachers, as a whole, any less informed about Open Source than the general public? I don't think so.
Not that it's the teacher's fault, but if FLOSS advocates want to change anything, Teachers should be more informed than the general public.
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Too many people are going to college when they can't afford it or shouldn't be going there
I would prefer *not* going back to a system where only the rich get educated. If anything, it should go the other way: more stringent admittance policies and lower tuition.
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Saving $150 means that you can afford two or three of your books for that semester.
Been awhile since you were in college, I see. :)
($90-150 is a conceivable price range for a USED book now...)
expose them (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't see why people are letting teachers like "Karen" remain anonymous. These people are paid for by tax dollars and are responsible to the public. If they promote commercial software to students and write nasty letters to non-profits, the public has a right to know.
Rather than getting into a pissing contest with her, he should just have said thank you, posted the letter on his blog, and sent a copy to the pta.
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Read the original thread on /. This got discussed there.
Firefox is apparently a proxy. (Score:3, Funny)
I took an intro to Linux class (Score:3, Funny)
"I want you to get into the habit of logging in as root"
):
OSS needs a people handling education (Score:2)
I hate a lot of teachers as much as the next person. Having done a few years of IT support in education I know all too well how dire some of them can be especially when it comes to computers.
But there has to be a realisation that not all teachers need to use IT to teach their subject and more importantly, to them, knowledge of open source software is completely and utterly irrelevant knowledge for what they need to do their job. There's a lot of things that different people suggest teachers need an educatio
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If OSS wants to break further into education
You can stop right there, actually.
In my experience, the only education most OSS developers are interested in providing begins and ends with the acronym "RTFM."
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B.S. The user forms for most open source software packages are far nicer and more helpful than those for commercial software. The open source community does a good job of support around products. Open source developers are much more accessible to resolve problems than commercial developers. But you shouldn't be talking to the developer (as opposed to say a forum) about something that is in the manual. Escalation should be reasonable.
Unless you are paying for an expensive support contract you quite ofte
This is the least of teacher's worries... (Score:5, Insightful)
What teachers really need is :
- Basic computer training. You would be amazed as to how many still can't figure out basic things like email, powerpoint or other similar 'basic' applications
- Updated material. I was talking with a friend who is still in high-school, and his civics book still has no mention of the 42nd or 43rd President. Oh, yeah, and his European Culture class still has a chapter about the Berlin Wall -- an object that hasn't been apart of European culture since before he was born.
- More salary. Many of the bankers went before congress defending their massive bonuses and payouts to employees using bailout money in order to retain the best talent. How are we ever going to get the best talent into teaching if we pay them slightly above minimum wage?! Show me a teacher that hasn't reached tenure who isn't struggling, and I'll show you a person who must have married rich.
- Better Student/Parent relationships. If teachers wouldn't be spending all their time baby-sitting, they could actually teach relevant stuff. School isn't a place where kids learn, it's a place kids > age of 5 go for the day while mommy and daddy are at work.
Once these issues are fixed, then maybe teachers could spend some time learning about the latest FOSS craze.
Starks missed a career as a punk rocker (Score:2)
... or maybe speed metal. He sure knows how to bang it. His rants remind me of Queen Kat (Katherine Thomas).
I don't disagree with all his arguments, but he manages to come off as so histrionic that even people like me already in the choir don't want to listen to him. How can this guy ever come across as rational to people who aren't already in complete agreement?
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Ummm... I meant GREAT Kat. Sorry.
You're worried about open source... (Score:2)
...when we still have science teachers denying evolution and the occasional history teacher downplaying the Holocaust? Let's get those educational issues straightened out first, and then we can worry about Linux which, let's be honest, is far less essential to the average high school diploma.
Incompetant School IT Pathology (Score:4, Insightful)
In my current work, I actually train school IT staff and administrators on the use of an automated phone calling system and batch database synching tool. Some are competant and professional. Some are clearly the office secretary in a little school who has sadly had this thrust upon her. Many fall into the following category:
This profile, while a stereotype, is a significant portion of the "IT Professionals" in primary and secondary ed field today. They're adequate for performing the basic day-to-day tasks in front of them, but when you get outside of their comfort zone they're lost. They get hassled and/or blamed for any surprises that come along, and as such are extremely gunshy about anything unfamilliar.
Their approach is calcified and overly cautious, as any changes, even beneficial ones, tax their time to the limit. It may well be that major inroads of F/OSS into education will either have to be mandated from the top down, or wait until most of these people retire and are placed by people who have a modern IT background.
free software (Score:2)
The thing I love about free products is that I can easily recommend them to my students. I can't do that with commercial software. This is because a) software vendors do their own advertising, and b) it's very easy for me to sit there and spend kids' money that they may or may not have. The ability to recommend software to students would be a big plus for any teacher I know. I think it should be presented that way to teachers. Now of course this applies to the higher level applications, not so much to
here (Score:2)
fixed that one too !
Any teachers out there who *are* OSS experts? (Score:4, Interesting)
I teach high school, and I consider myself something of an OSS expert...I've been using OSS since the 90's (actually made some money from it working in the industry for several years), several consulting gigs related to OSS, currently a developer on a couple of active OSS projects. I don't believe I fit the mold of your typical "OSS-challenged" teacher. But the problem I have is finding like-minded teachers who have a clue about how to integrate OSS technology in the classroom. My school district has taken some baby steps in this regard (they have a Moodle installation I'm helping with, and I use OSS tools in every one of my CS classes without fear of reprisal).
So, where do the teachers hang out who not only know how to spell "OSS" but are also actively promoting OSS in the public school system?
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obviously of more interest to the editors than this [slashdot.org]
Re:Helios Blog Entry Is Crap! (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember OSX, based UNIX, said that they had no virii. Ooops, not that OSX is becoming popular it seems that there are a few security loopholes. The same thing would happen to Linux since hackers are a determined lot.
Linux needs to stop the smug attitude because users don't care about smugness. They just want things to work!
Please, don't use the word "virii" anymore.
And, as you said, Apache is very popular as a web server, and still isn't as vulnerable as Microsofts IIS.
So no, vulnerability does not always rise with popularity.
Re:Helios Blog Entry Is Crap! (Score:5, Informative)
Apache is a different situation. Apache has been around since the Internet and as such has fought the battles.
The problem with Linux and Open Office is that they have not been in broad use in the context of a desktop. And as such the traps related to the desktop have not been exposed.
Many of the worst problems are because people click on things that they should not be clicking on. Linux does not have that type of idiocy proof technology built in. Windows and Vista have that built in. It is also a reason why I hate Vista.
Here is a very simple example. If I want to open a port below 1024 I need admin rights. Well what about above? Nope don't need it. This was done in the days when anything below 1024 was considered important. Though now it has become irrelevant and as such could be a security threat.
http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/node/2179 [linuxquestions.org]
From the article...
> I wonder why. Isn't it time to declare the port 1024 limit as obsolete too and remove it?
vulnerabilities (Score:2)
As they get more popular, especially with non-expert users, more vulnerabilities will be found and exploited.
No, they won't. The difference of security between Linux and Windows isn't due to open source or due to popularity, it's due to software distribution: people get all their Linux software from the distributor; almost nobody needs to install third party applications. That eliminates most sources of viruses and malware.
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Most viruses are caught either through stupid users clicking something they shouldn't or through exploits, most commonly through the internet browser but also through opening infected files using a certain piece of software .
The majority of windows users get their software through distributors too.
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Whilst there's some truth in what you say, this is interesting "Globally, the source of the most number of infections for these top 100 malware is the Internet, specifically in surfing unknown or malicious sites, or accepting links offered in unsolicited email."
http://blog.trendmicro.com/most-abused-infection-vector/ [trendmicro.com]
Sure, there's probably a FOSS program for nearly everything you need, put that won't stop idiots or non tech-aware people downloading malware-ridden crap from the net becuse of banners flashing
Re:Helios Blog Entry Is Crap! (Score:4, Insightful)
Linux needs to stop the smug attitude because users don't care about smugness. They just want things to work!
I agree. Most teachers simply do not have time to learn about Linux, FOSS, etc. they're too busy trying to keep up with all the paperwork, requirements, and BTW teach to worry about that stuff; and they're not about to spend money on a continuing ed class that doesn't get them either con-ed credits or a higher qualification
In addition, most districts are very restrictive about what can be loaded on district machines, so most teachers won't even try FOSS for fear of getting in trouble over IT rules. It simply isn't worth the hassle.
OTOH, you can make it easy to show teachers how FOSS can benefit student. If a teacher want's students to do presentations, providing a clear set of directions on how to install OpenOffice and set it up to save in an Office compatible format, so they can offer that as an alternative to parents buying Office, helps them at minimal effort on their part and generates awareness for FOSS.
Instead of assuming teachers are the enemy look at things from their perspective and see what you can do to make things easier for them.
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What a load of garbage! Open Office can send and receive those documents so long as they are not that complicated. And therein lies the issue.
Microsoft Office itself has serious interoperability problems between versions. As a result, you're no worse off using OpenOffice than you would be using Microsoft Office.
You are nervous to use OpenOffice because an translation error could hit you at the wrong moment.
I'm not. I'm nervous to use Microsoft Office because its file formats and user interface keep changi
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Linux needs to stop the smug attitude because users don't care about smugness. They just want things to work!
Well, then switching from Windows to Linux is the first thing they should do, since things already work a lot better on Linux than they do on Windows.
When Windows users supposedly have problems with Linux, what they are really saying is that Linux doesn't work the way they are used to or with the software that they have used.
Guess what: you can't fix the problems with Windows and remain 100% compatib
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*cough* SELinux *cough*
Seriously, Windows security policies out of the box are...effectively nonexistent. Fedora's SELinux policies are in place, enough to prevent the most common attack vectors while managing to not get in the way (at least if you are an end user; if you are advanced enough to have it get in the way, yo
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virii
This is not a word, please stop using it. The plural of 'virus' is 'viruses', its Greek not Latin.
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So far, that's correct.
The plural of 'virus' is 'viruses', its Greek not Latin.
No no no. "virus" is clearly a word with origins in Latin (-us is an ending for Latin words, not Greek ones), and the correct plural, in Latin, would be "viri". However, since the word is used in an English text, the correct plural is "viruses".
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/virus [merriam-webster.com]
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You're on the internet posting on slashdot, you're making too much money. Get back to working the field.
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No one can possibly be that stupid, can they? That has got to be a hoax site.
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That would be implied by "parody," yes.
But yes,people can be that stupid.
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Ah ... if only British voters had such passion for party politics.
Never listened to a Five Live radio phone-in?
Re:which requires teachers with an open source edu (Score:2)
Hey, stop writing in perl and hacking the school grade server!