Major Study Concludes That Cloud Seeding Is Effective 81
An anonymous reader writes "A 45-year Australian trial is the best evidence yet that cloud seeding — the practice of artificially inducing clouds to make rain — really works."
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A committee takes root and grows, it flowers, wilts and dies, scattering the seed from which other committees will bloom. -- Parkinson
Oh Real clouds (Score:4, Funny)
Looks like its lunch time
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
That's exactly what it's all about. When you seed from the cloud, the torrents run better.
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Only if your seed is pure.
Re: (Score:1, Funny)
Re: Impotant Note (Score:1)
"The gun is good. The penis is evil. The penis shoots seeds, and makes new life to poison the Earth with a plague of men, as once it was, but the gun shoots death, and purifies the Earth of the filth of brutals. Go forth . . . and kill!"
Am I Missing Something? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Am I Missing Something? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Am I Missing Something? (Score:4, Funny)
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Only if you move there.
Get packing. The earth needs you!
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Little-known law of solar panel use (Score:2)
Everyone thinks solar panels are unreliable due to bad weather. In fact, it's just a small technical issue that while installing, that beginners misinterpret. That "bad weather" on the solar panel is your shadow.
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Summary != Link (Score:2)
What I like best about this article is how the link has absolutely NOTHING to do with the summary.
So what shall we talk about?
Re:Summary != Link (Score:5, Informative)
Found correct link: http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/2514/major-study-proves-cloud-seeding-effective [cosmosmagazine.com]
Proper URL and text (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/2514/major-study-proves-cloud-seeding-effective [cosmosmagazine.com]
SYDNEY: A 45-year Australian trial is the best evidence yet that could seeding - the practice of artificially inducing clouds to make rain - really works.
Since the mid-20th century scientists have attempted to produce rain by dispersing chemical substances into the clouds and stimulating precipitation. However, until now, there has been little concrete scientific evidence that cloud seeding is effective.
"This is the first time that an independent analysis of cloud seeding data over several decades has shown a statistically significant increase in rainfall," said Steven Siems, a meteorologist from Monash University in Melbourne and leader of the study.
Significant finding
The Monash team, in conjunction with renewable energy firm Hydro Tasmania, analysed monthly rainfall patterns over the hydroelectric catchment area between May and October from 1960 until 2005.
As they detailed in the Journal of Applied Meteorology and Climatology the analysis revealed higher levels of rain in the parts of the catchment where the rain making technique was used than in those where it was not.
"A number of independent statistical tests showed a consistent increase of at least five per cent in monthly rainfall over the catchment area," said Siems.
For the could seeding technique, the researchers select clouds using specialist weather radar technology that allows them to see all the tiny processes that take place within them.
Once clouds for seeding are chosen, minute particles of a silver compound are dusted into them by light aircraft to stimulate rain formation.
Super-cooled water
Anthony Morrison, a climatologist at Monash and co-author of the study, explained that these silver particles cause super-cooled water in the clouds to freeze. As these particular clouds are so high in the atmosphere that they are below freezing point, the frozen drops recruit water and get heavier causing them to fall from the clouds as rain.
However, the researchers caution that the result may be due to the unique clouds in this part of Tasmania and would be difficult to reproduce elsewhere.
"Clouds over the Southern Ocean are different to any other clouds", Siems told Cosmos Online. "They are really loaded with super cool liquid water." Just as important, he said, is the remoteness of the location: "the air in the Southern Ocean is exceptionally clean with virtually no pollution."
And the researchers are still at a loss to precisely explain how the technique was successful.
"They're really not comparable to clouds that have been seeded anywhere else in the world," said Morrison. "Further field measurements of cloud microphysics over the region are needed to provide a physical basis for these statistical results."
Despite the caveats, other experts are excited by the results.
"At long last there is scientific backup for the [cloud seeding] hypothesis that has been suggested over the years," commented Roger Stone, director of the Australian Centre for Sustainable Catchments at the University of Southern Queensland in Toowoomba.
However, while the study is a breakthrough, he noted that cloud seeding does not work in all locations and specific techniques have to be developed for each region.
"For example, in Queensland the conditions are highly different. It has to be the right time and exactly the right cloud for it to work," he said. "The key is to get a very good weather radar."
Let it snow
Paul Johnson, a spokesperson from Snowy Hydro, who are conducting similar experiments to artificial induce snowfall in Victoria's Snowy Mountains, said the results were promising. "It's another indicator that supports our preliminary data and backs up what the experts said in the beginning. That we would see an increase in snow."
Because of the unusual nature of
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Now if only California can use this... (Score:5, Interesting)
Correct link by the way: http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/2514/major-study-proves-cloud-seeding-effective [cosmosmagazine.com]
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Because screwing with the environment is not the answer to damage being done by screwing with the environment?
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+1
I remember reading an article last year on how the Chinese government was prepared to take preventive measures during the Beijing Olympics' opening and closing ceremonies. They wanted the event to go smoothly, so they had teams of scientists and climatologists ready to prevent any occurrence of rain.
The goal of Chinese officials was the exact opposite of the Australian ones, but the point is - having the ability to change the climactic cycle doesn't mean you have to use it, much less abuse it!
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Yeah. . . first you need some clouds to seed. I'm not sure, but I believe that you will not often find the confluence of clouds suitable for seeding at the same time and location that you have a wildfire?
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AFAIK we've never used it on fires as it's not able to produce the necessary rainfall in the middle of summer when there are no real clouds around anyway. Perhaps it could be useful though in making use of any weather change that comes through before clouds move on elsewhere.
Not sure how our laws (Summary Offences Act, Victoria) would affect that also. The Act has one section which makes it an offence to seed clouds without permission - from whom I cannot recall.
We have fires as bad as you in California, in
Re:Now if only California can use this... (Score:4, Informative)
Well, California has been cloud seeding since 1948 [wikipedia.org], with varying degrees of success. I suppose another arrow in the quiver couldn't hurt.
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The British Ministry of Defence were experimenting in the early 50s. Unfortunately, they were a bit too successful [bbc.co.uk] and killed 34 people when the village of Lynmouth was washed away.
Re:Now if only California can use this... (Score:4, Insightful)
Might be possible to keep the place a little moister, and thus less prone to fire(likely at the cost of stealing even more water from surrounding areas); but not much more than that.
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Because you need some clouds first.
Clouds with potential.
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Wildfires often burn so hot that rain evaporates before it even hits the flames. So that would render your cloud-seeding method of fighting wildfires pretty much worthless.
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When water evaporates, it draws heat away from its surroundings. I don't understand why with enough of a downpour, the water won't reach the wildfire's fuel source.
Take it further (Score:2)
Wow (Score:4, Funny)
Wow, apparently editors don't even LOOK at TFA these days :P
Who trained them? (Score:1)
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Awesome (Score:2)
One Tinfoil Hat for You! (Score:1)
And trust me, you won't look 'rediculous' in it
Alternative: (Score:2)
I myself find great success with the Great American Rain Dance...
...washing my car. Never fails!
Terraforming the Earth (Score:1)
I believe that between fertilizing the oceans with iron, painting all roofs white to increase the albido, and could seeding, we can make this planet just like our native home.
Re:Terraforming the Earth (Score:5, Funny)
"painting all roofs white to increase the albido,"
It's "libido" or "albedo". Although I'm not sure what the color of the roof has to do with what goes on underneath it.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Well, now, pay attention people
Just in case you hadn't heard
There's some folks messin' 'round
With Mother Nature's little world, baby
And what they do is really freaky
They gets themselves a plane
And they fly it around with chemicals, baby
Tryin' ta make it rain
So when you're out there in that blizzard,
Shiverin' in the cold
Just look up to the sky
And thank the Government for the snow
And sing the low-down, experimental, cloud-seedin',
Who-needs-'em-baby? silver i-i-o-dide blues
Oh, yeah.
Woo!
--C.W. McCall, "Silver I
Re:"Chemtrails?" (Score:4, Interesting)
Does cloud seeding explain all of the paranoid "chemtrail" chatter found in the seedy underbelly of the internets?
No. Crazy doesn't need an explanation. Witness "Morgellons Syndrome," people who think the moon landing was faked, and alien abductees. Some delusions just go viral on their own.
That said, sometimes I wonder if there *is* an explanation. Is there a way to predict what kinds of delusions will go mass delusion and which will stay localized to a few crazies (like Time Cube)? I mean, we know that trans-cranial magnetic stimulation can recreate the paralysis, terror, and hallucinations of an "alien abduction," so there's an underlying biological explanation for this. "Morgellons" (and delusional parasitosis in general) is more common among women over 40. Does that indicate a biological root? On the other hand, I feel skeptical about suggesting a strong biological link behind "the moon landing was faked" crazies; that's probably more the result of cultural influences, but is there any biological reason why that one resonates with some people still in a way that "9/11 was faked" no longer really does for nearly as many people after only 8 years?
Is "chemtrail" chatter the work of one inventive crazy whose explanations got popular among the crowd of paranoids who are easily influenced in that direction, or is there some deeper reason why that pattern of delusion resonates with some people. Is it biological? The result of deep-seated assumptions of our culture and way of life? Just the shallow zeitgeist of the day?
I dunno, but I like to think about this sort of thing. People are just the funniest creatures in creation some days.
No, that's delusion plus medical quackery. (Score:2)
I met once (and from thorough discussion would admit) a lady over in Orange city of California that has Morgellon's Disease. She even has video on YouTube. She is not delusional and has accepted that her health difficulties are just an autoimmune response to her cells having incorporated new functions directly from environmental influences not in her comfort or favor.
Sorry, but "accepting" something that has no basis in reality is being delusional. Just where does she get his whole "cells having incorporated new functions" nonsense from in the first place? I'm glad she's losing her tactile hallucinations, but she's not doing it through genuine medicine. If the placebo effect does it for her, then I wish her well.
But she's still crazy. Watch her first video. She goes to a doctor, they tell her what's going on, and she (like every other supposed "Morgellons" sufferer
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That stuff about Morgellons was amazing. I occasionally have the sensation described, but I don't think any more of it. Our 4 year old son occasionally has "itchy all over" feelings, though. Sometimes it manifests acutely in times of high stress, so we figure he's putting it on, though it's possible he "feels" it. Maybe it could be a histamine release because of the high stress, which would make the sensation real physically and mentally. Making light of it and scratching him all over can both relieve any i
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Does cloud seeding explain all of the paranoid "chemtrail" chatter found in the seedy underbelly of the internets?
No. Crazy doesn't need an explanation. Witness "Morgellons Syndrome," people who think the moon landing was faked, and alien abductees. Some delusions just go viral on their own.
I'm not saying that the chemtrail thing is true, I will only say that "the government said so" is not an adequate disexplanation. Perhaps it is 100% bullshit, but the federal government has used the general populace as guinea pigs repeatedly - so it's easy to believe. Perhaps bullshit conspiracy theories feed on the fact that there are so many real conspiracies designed to bone the public out of something for the benefit of the few?
Is "chemtrail" chatter the work of one inventive crazy whose explanations got popular among the crowd of paranoids who are easily influenced in that direction, or is there some deeper reason why that pattern of delusion resonates with some people.
Chemtrails resonate with people because we are living in a time when it is c
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I'm not saying that the chemtrail thing is true, I will only say that "the government said so" is not an adequate disexplanation.
I already got a Morgellons believer, so I'm not surprised I picked up someone defending the chemtrails conspiracy belief. The problem with conspiracy theorists is that there is absolutely nobody who will be trusted with evidence of disproof or of unlikeliness. The government itself? Obviously untrustworthy! Atmospheric scientists and aeronautical engineers? In on the fix. Their very denials are proof enough! So, who is good enough to listen to?
Perhaps it is 100% bullshit, but the federal government has used the general populace as guinea pigs repeatedly - so it's easy to believe. Perhaps bullshit conspiracy theories feed on the fact that there are so many real conspiracies designed to bone the public out of something for the benefit of the few?
So, you're arguing for primarily cultural roots for the b
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The area I grew up in was a major crossing point for airplane routes. It wasn't all that unusual to be able to see three commercial airliners in the sky at the same time at least once a day, and a sky without a contrail in it was a rare occurrence. So, I'm not at all buying the circa 1996 theory that lingering trails are the result of special chemicals -- I've seen lingering trails for nearly two decades before that, and I have absolutely no reason to disbelieve the idea that atmospheric conditions have something to do with it. Contrails are just like any other cloud once formed.
I'm not saying it's evidence for chemtrails, but this argument fails to debunk it because the argument is not that something new and special is going on, but that something special is happening more frequently. (Straw Man) I don't mind debunkings, I'm not married to the theory. I would like them not to be fallacious.
Rain Wars? (Score:5, Interesting)
Does this mean that countries could begin to wage "weather war"? If we stop rain from falling on a country, it would be just sieging a castle.
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I was thinking we could use this to turn poor, worthless, dry areas into working agrarian areas.
You know, like the middle east. It would be nice if those people could stop fighting for once and focus on producing something other than oil.
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That actually sounds like a much better idea.
I must still be stuck in "War on Terror" mode from the last 8 years.
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Er, seeding doesn't make rain out of nothing. It's just water management, triggering where moisture falls, and unfortunately we don't have a balancing method to gather more moisture from seas.
Grotesquely simplifying a complex system, you've got a fixed X amount of moisture, and seeding is a way of getting it to become rain at point A before the moisture gets farther on to rain at point B.
Which means this doesn't do anything for the Middle East where water management disputes is a huge, bloody, conflict poin
Phew! Thank christ! (Score:3, Funny)
I thought I may have to go a whole day without seeing a story about Australia on Slashdot.
I hate it when it's kdawson's day off!
Luckily for us timothy stepped into the breach.
So, what's the next BIG STORY: Australian Man Figures Out How To Use Light Switch?
Clouds ? must be IT related... (Score:1)
Bernard Vonnegut figured this out in 1946 (Score:3, Interesting)
Kurt Vonnegut's older brother, Bernard Vonnegut, 1914-1997 was a meteorologist who figured this out while working for General Electric. Why is this news now?
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Kurt Vonnegut's older brother, Bernard Vonnegut, 1914-1997 was a meteorologist who figured this out while working for General Electric. Why is this news now?
Cloud seeding has been practiced for many years, but quantifying its success has been difficult. This study claims to have done that. That is the news.
If you needed a hint that Cloud seeding itself wasn't the news, perhaps the fact that the summary is discussing a 45 year trial could have clued you in.
CSIRO (Score:2)
Apparently in the early seventies the CSIRO (Australian Government funded research organisation) was directed to abandoned its research and development of computers in favour of cloud seeding.
Cloud seeding was said by the government of the day to be the next big thing, unlike these big computer thinga-me-bobs which had only limited application.
I dont think any Australia government has ever had a grasp on technology.
Lack of scientific method? (Score:1)
>For the cloud seeding technique, the researchers select clouds using specialist weather radar technology
> that allows them to see all the tiny processes that take place within them.
Where's the control? How do they know that they are not (unintentionally, of course) *selecting* clouds that
would have produced rain anyway?
The fact that they are testing over decades actually works against reaching the conclusion they've reached.
Snow (Score:1)
I read a bit about this when I was skiing at Perisher Blue last a year and a half ago. The part that interested me most was the possibility to increase snowfall, which is great because our skiing resorts in Australia don't get a huge amount of snow.
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Quite an amusing game if you haven't tried it
Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_(game) [wikipedia.org]
Download site: http://intihuatani.usc.edu/cloud/ [usc.edu]
Basically you fly around and you make clouds. And if your clouds collide with evil clouds, then they produce rain.
Oops, forgot to refresh the page after logging in
In other news... (Score:1)
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