Lars Ulrich Pirates His Own Album 672
rudeboy1 writes "Lars Ulrich, drummer for Metallica, and long time opponent of file sharing admitted to 'pirating' his own album, Death Magnetic last year. 'I sat there myself and downloaded "Death Magnetic" from the Internet just to try it,' he said. 'I was like, "Wow, this is how it works." I figured if there is anybody that has a right to download "Death Magnetic" for free, it's me.'"
You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the RIAA (Score:5, Insightful)
I figured if there is anybody that has a right to download "Death Magnetic" for free, it's me.
Wrong. I'm going to apply your logic here and say that the real victims are the rest of the members of Metellica that worked hard day and night to make "Death Magnetic." You would have had to buy that in a store to get it and therefore the $18 ripoff that you avoided took money away from your bandmates who did not receive the fifteen cents they normally would have from that sale. On top of that, what about the profit your label would have made or the amounts payable to the RIAA lawyers? You have stolen something physical and real from them and they no longer have it. Those sound engineers at your studio will have to eat at Olive Garden tonight instead of Buca De Beppo.
... yet the many file sharers that have no intent(or in some cases the means) to pay for it are thieves?
So Ulrich's logic is that he never would have paid for this album in the first place and therefore it's ok for him to download it
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Interesting)
When you P2P, you not only take the data for yourself, you also help spread the data around.
So, my accessment is that I was freely 'given' the Album directly from Lars. Therefore, as I was freely given the album anonymously by one of the original artists- I didn't steal it either. That is assuming, of course, that I would bother to download his 'music'.
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Informative)
That depends on the P2P network you use and your application. Its certainly possible to download off of some P2P networks with some clients without sharing anything.
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:4, Informative)
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Usenet fucking sucks anyways.
Just for shits and giggles, my sneakernet beats out my 20/20 FiOS connection on Usenet - on an hourly basis. I also get the added benefit of going somewhere and maybe experiencing something interesting rather than just sitting at home.
Usenet is old, and practically no ISP carries Usenet access any longer. Who cares about a service practically dead when there's other alternatives out there like XDC and whatnot?
Shut up about USENET already! (Score:5, Funny)
Okay, guys, we're not supposed to talk about Usenet, remember?
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I don't know why anybody would ever use usenet anyhow. There is almost now content on it, its really really slow, releases usually end up on usenet last (I recommend using Kazaa or bearshare if you want to get anything quickly).
Also, the chance of you getting caught is pretty much 100%. Usenet is never encrypted and most of the providers are actually part of the FBI, btw.
Oh, and most of the files on it are viruses.
It might also offend your cat, and make your breath smell really bad.
AVOID IT AT ALL COSTS!
I
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Believe it or not "they" read sites like /. too...
Who do you think 'they' are? They are us. Don't think that 'us vs them' means that we are actually any different from them. It's just a useful way to rally your base, having a common enemy and all.
Anyway, for most of us, morals won't pay the bills.
Re:Shut up about USENET already! (Score:5, Interesting)
It's true... one of my friends is an IP attorney for one of the big labels. That didn't stop him from "borrowing" my hard drive full of music. A friend of my wife works for a different big media company, again as an attorney. Her husband actually uses her company laptop for p2p, to the constant admonishment of his wife.
It's about money, not morals. The two IP lawyers that I speak about are not monsters and they like p2p just as much as the rest of us do. But they are lawyers and will do whatever is in the best interest of their clients/employers, just as ethics dictates.
Good thinking! (Score:4, Funny)
We'd better not talk about usenet, or they'll find the usenet main node at 127.0.0.1 and then we'll be screwed!
So for God's sake don't let them know about the server at 127.0.0.1!
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Easily...just like you'd get any other file off usenet for free...provided you have access to a good usenet server.
People have been trading all sorts of files on usenet long before there were any P2P applications...way before they were even thought of.
There is also IRC you can look at too....
Get a good news client...do a little googling...and you'll find out. Take a look at Slyck [slyck.com] for a start...look into nzb's and the like, they make
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Interesting)
I feel really bad for Lars.
First, he had to suffer the financial losses from all this p2p stuff, and now that he's publicly admitted to it he's going to have to pay for an expensive legal battle against the RIAA.
I mean, unless the RIAA doesn't go after him. But a high profile music person like him admitting this in a highly public venue? Not prosecuting him would be tantamount to the RIAA admitting their side is not logical & internally consistent...
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:4, Funny)
Sorry. You'll now have to ask him to make a bootleg copy of the album and buy it off him for a buck in order to feel normal again.
Ulrich is likely a copyright infringer. (Score:3, Interesting)
I doubt that's a correct assessment. Artists who sign with major labels often don't own the songs they will write or the recorded performances they will make during the time they're under contract. Without knowing the particulars of Ulrich's contract I can't be absolutely certain what legitimate copyright claim he has on "Death Magnetic". But there's a good chance Ulrich isn't a copyright holder on that album. Which means that c
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Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Funny)
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Blockbuster, Netflix, Redbox.
Filesharing is like a swimming pool in your backyard.
Even though its yours, law requires a fence around it.
DVDs are a public nuisance, too easy to share, like a non-fenced pool.
The law should FORCE a fence on DVD's. Make them encrypt or something.
Please....
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Insightful)
Being the middleman can be risky. You aren't in charge of the supply of the products you sell because somebody else makes it and sells it to you (and other middlemen) You can't control the demand for said products, except by advertising. Note that the most successful retail outfits are those that either (a) own a small but very reliable market of consumers (specialist mom-n-pop stores) or (b) also dominate the wholesale and distribution portion (e.g. monster chain stores).
Seriously, the very concept of wholesale-retail-consumer is obsolete for digital media. Music is not the same kind of product as groceries.
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Funny)
Imagine Olive Garden with a table that has a Pope's head encased in class on a lazy Susan in the middle. You get to spin it around and have it stare at others while you eat overpriced and oversized Americanized Italian food, family style, with lots of other people in a crowded and campy restaurant. That's Buca di Beppo.
But I suppose the Pope's head in glass could be confused with an Italian pedophilia clown in some circles, so good call there.
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Funny)
Imagine Olive Garden with a table that has a Pope's head encased in class
The Pope is always encased in class.
So stylish.
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:4, Informative)
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Furthermore, when Lars downloaded the album by P2P, he implicated himself in any future RIAA witch hunts. Now when the recording industry thugs go after their latest batch of victims, they'll have to include Lars Ulrich in the target list.
If they don't target him just like any other poor slob on the internet, the RIAA stands to lose money. The industry works by strongarming regular folks who get caught downloading music, but when untouchable band members start clogging up the docket there's that much less
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I figured if there is anybody that has a right to download "Death Magnetic" for free, it's me.
Wrong. I'm going to apply your logic here...
Actually, you're wrong; Lars is just displaying his mastery of logic, trying to fool people into thinking he's okay with filesharing. See, he said "if there is anybody that has a right to download 'Death Magnetic' for free....'" There (likely) isn't. So the antecedent [wikipedia.org] is false, so his statement is true.
It's never a good idea to try to out-logic a pirate.
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Informative)
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Interesting)
Some acts in the past have actually gotten rich enough to buy back the copyright and have exclusive control over their music, but not many do.
Given the age and success of Metallica, I wouldn't bet that Lars and the rest of the band don't have a firm grip on the copyrights to their songs, even if it's through a holding company like the beetles had it done.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Funny)
They're only the band that Lead Zeppelin could've been...
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:4, Funny)
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Funny)
That's not saying a whole lot, I'm a lot bigger than most Mexicans too but you don't hear me bragging about it.
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Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:4, Insightful)
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Yeah, that sounds rock'n'roll..
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Informative)
Usually, your assumption would be correct, but Metallica is one of the few bands that does retain their own copyrights. This is probably why they were so vocal back in the Napster days, and why these comments from Lars are newsworthy.
I heard the interview on Eddie Trunk's XM show a couple weeks ago, and got a chuckle out of it. He could remember the name of what he used to do the download, but something he said (I don't remember exactly what) gave me the impression it was one of the bittorrent clients.
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s/could remember/could NOT remember/
That's okay. After all the drugs Ulrich has done, he's not sure either.
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I believe two seconds of googling would have found a solid answer:
Metallica's label (for Death Magnetic) is UMG. Pretty sure Lars Ulrich doesn't own Universal Group, not even the tiniest part of it.
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I wouldn't bet that he's the copyright holder. That is usually the label.
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Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Informative)
Presumably bands that attempt to negotiate better deals are just dropped for another less-savvy band. Only established big name acts have the leverage to demand better terms (but it was through their poor negotiation skills that they got the gig in the first place, so don't count on it).
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Interesting)
Your are hitting the nail on the head. But something needs to be added here:
Music is actually a commodity. Really. The world is full of people who could, and would do a more or less equivalent job.
If it was a true free market situation, it would be over saturated to the point where music would be free anyway.
The major labels have positioned themselves as gate keepers and most of their work for the last 10 years has been about keeping the sender from the receiver, and maintain the artificial scarcity.
But thanks to the internet their days are numbered no matter what, and that makes me happy.
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Usually the artist retains the copyright on the lyrics, but the actual sound recording belongs to the label.
As others have posted, this is not the case with Metallica, who do own the rights to their work, and most likely license the distribution rights to a label.
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Insightful)
This is just the artists having a double standart, "if you do it, it is illegal stealing, if I do it is my right".
Saying "oh, it's just a digital copy, not the actual physical copy" goes both ways.
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Funny)
your comment will be ignored, mostly because it makes too much sense.
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Insightful)
Too much sense? ... except for the fact that walking into a brick-and-mortar store, walking out with an album without having paid for it is theft, not copyright infringement.
No unauthorized copy was made. Physical object taken unjustly.
Analogy rejected.
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...mind you, most music stores won't mind if it was a famous artist...
Having worked at a music store (chain, not a mom-n-pop), I most certainly would have minded if any artist (whether I recognized the artist or not) tried to walk out without paying. If they could take the nebulous "music" without denying us the physical property (the CD) that we had to inventory, track, and account for - then yes. But since you can't (at this time in 99% or more of cases) take music from a music store without also taking the physical media, you also cannot take the music for free. No mat
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Funny)
Frost: Are you saying the drummer of Metallica can do anything he want's - even if it is illegal.
Ulrich: I'm saying, if the drummer of Metallica does it, it's not illegal.
Re:Mod parent down clueless... (Score:5, Interesting)
You're clearly missing GP's point. The point is that the RIAA wants to call file sharing and infringement the exact same thing as stealing a disk from a store. If that's true, and it's ok for Lars to 'Pirate' his own music, then it's also ok for him to walk into any music store and walk out with one of his CDs, because it's the exact same thing.
So here's the valid choices:
A. Piracy is theft, and since Metallica owns the rights to their own stuff, it's ok for any of them to pirate any of their music or walk into a store and grab one of their CDs.
B. Piracy is theft, but it's not ok for Lars to walk into a music store and grab a copy of his own disk and walk out without paying for it, therefore pirating his own music is also not ok, and the RIAA has to sue him and demand the same fines from him that they demand from every other "pirate".
C. Piracy is not theft, therefore since Metallica owns the rights to their own music, it's ok for Lars to pirate his own music even though it's not ok for him to steal a disk from a store.
There are no other options.
Re:You Have Stolen From Your Bandmates & the R (Score:5, Informative)
Not necessarily. Ever noticed how the RIAA lawsuits always are by the record company, and never the artists? That's because the copyright for the recorded songs (denoted by a P in a circle as opposed to a C in a circle) almost always belongs to the record company. Most artists are not allowed, by their contracts, to upload "their own songs" on their own websites, for example.
The rights to the song itself, as an independent work, belongs to the composer(s) and writer(s). Different actions infringe on different rights and it's been more or less established that filesharing infringes on the record company's rights to distribute, not the artist's/composer's/writer's rights.
But I wonder if Lars knew that he most likely was seeding the album. :-)
Re:... And Justice For All (Score:5, Funny)
Metallica Rocks, Pirating is wrong, and You suck.
Lars?
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I'm out of touch! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I'm out of touch! (Score:5, Funny)
Oddly enough (Score:5, Funny)
"... I'm relevant again!!! SERIOUSLY!!! I download stuff too!!"
Oddly enough, he's the ONLY one who's pirated "Death Magnetic"
Just think... (Score:5, Interesting)
if he had had any clue BEFORE he went on his insane rants, we might be in better shape and the music industry might be in better shape too.
Lars Ulrich has caused problems trying to stop new artists from entering the system and promoting their music and concerts. Oh wait, right, he's one of the few who got through the glass ceiling and has now spent the last 10 years making ever-shittier "music" [blogspot.com] while pulling the ladder up behind him.
The article is blocked by my proxy... (Score:3, Insightful)
So yeah, the article is blocked by work's web proxy under the category "filesharing / p2p".
The summary says he went and tried to 'pirate' his own album.
Is it safe to assume that this was just him trying to see how exactly the evil pirates are stealing his music, and that this doesn't represent any change in his position or the acquisition of some kind of clue?
Maybe We Should Thank Lars Ulrich? (Score:3, Insightful)
if he had had any clue BEFORE he went on his insane rants, we might be in better shape and the music industry might be in better shape too.
I think that's debatable and so does the article:
Of course, Napster was dead and buried a long time ago but thanks in part to Ulrich, the destruction of the service led to the creation of many others ...
For you see, once you assign a very real and tangible target to an intangible idea, you have something to work with. Someone to debate, someone to open dialogues with, someone to launch a campaign against, etc.
I saw a short documentary on Anita Bryant created by a homosexual who was thanking her and devoting the video to her hate speech against homosexuals. Now, I'm not trying to draw a comparison between homosexuals and file sharers but rather the eff
Nice hyper headline (Score:3, Insightful)
Since Lars and the band perform the song(s) and probably have some rights to the song(s), he can't pirate his own work.
That's like saying a photographer who downloads a picture of one of his works from a gallery is pirating his work or an author who makes a copy of one of his own books is pirating his book.
But please, let's not let common sense get in the way of people justifying not paying performers for their work.
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Since Lars and the band perform the song(s) and probably have some rights to the song(s), he can't pirate his own work.
Well, mabye they signed away their rights? In some jurisdictions there are some rights you can't sign away, but there might be others were you can sign away anything. And, as someone mentioned before me, isn't he depriving the other band members of their income even if the band as a whole has every right?
Of course, I don't see anything wrong in that he downloaded it, I just try to reason about what the law might think.
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The assumption you have made is that the content creators hold the copyright to their works. In reality, many content creators sell their works to middle men.
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And it assumes that he is the only content creator. Even if he does still hold the copyright and hasn't signed it away then he isn't the only content creator in a Metallica album, so he's still 'stealing' the work of the other band members.
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Several people have said this, but it is incorrect.
If he holds copyright, then it doesn't matter who else also holds copyright on the same work. Copyright doesn't mean "entitled to a profit from every copy made"; it means (among other things) "entitled to make copies without anyone else's permission".
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He used the same file sharing services he has been railing against for years to download a copy of an album that was presumably being shared illegally. Furthermore, the article seems to imply that the file sharing client already existed on the computer at his house, which would mean he may well have downloaded other albums in the past.
Remember, when someone does something they know is wrong, and starts justifying it by saying they were drinking with friends, and it was the only time they've ever done it, a
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Re:Nice hyper headline (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually the headline is technically correct.
Since Lars and the band perform the song(s) and probably have some rights to the song(s)
Precisely: some rights, but not all. Metallica signed an exclusive distribution contract which grants complete control over distribution of these particular recordings to their label, and since the copy produced by downloading wasn't authorised under the terms of that contract it is indeed a pirate copy (note that if he wanted to give away a physical CD, it would be taken from stock and billed to the band as a promotional expense). The fact that he co-wrote the music makes no difference, except that it might also be a breach of contract.
The same applies to published authors, BTW. That's pretty much what "published" means: your work in someone else's hands.
Photographers are slightly different, as its relatively rare for a photographer to sign an exclusive deal with a gallery that extends beyond the duration of an exhibition. In general, they retain all the rights to their work unless it was commissioned.
But please, let's not let common sense get in the way of people justifying not paying performers for their work.
Common sense and copyright are mutually exclusive. That's why so few people understand it.
(Disclosure: I'm a published songwriter/musician, formerly signed to Warner, BMG, Universal and a number of smaller labels, currently working in television production. I'm probably the last person who would try to justify not paying performers).
Well... (Score:5, Funny)
Wonder if he was as let down by it as I was! What a waste of time+bandwidth
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Easy one for RIAA (Score:5, Informative)
It only means he was uploading it if he was using BitTorrent. Article doesn't specify.
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INTARWEB BAAAAD! (Score:4, Funny)
F'ing Metallicops, go!
Heh (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Heh (Score:5, Funny)
For some reason this summons up images of Darth Vader trying to cram a cookie through his face-plate thing.
Oblig: Napster Bad Video (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS6udST6lbE [youtube.com]
How wrong can you be (Score:2, Insightful)
By stealing this song, rather than purchasing it through retail, he has stolen revenue from AT LEAST the following people:
a) The label
b) The store
c) Marketing
d) Hauliers
He is STEALING FROM THEM.
2 words (Score:3, Informative)
Re:2 words (Score:5, Funny)
Why He Did It (Score:2)
He did it b/c he couldn't figure out how to get the Guitar Hero version onto his PC himself. He was fed up with the static-laden "loudness war" version that's on the audio compact disc and this was his only avenue.
At least that's what I'd like to think as it's the funniest scenario in my mind.
Metallica's upcoming new album (Score:5, Funny)
Wrong. (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, I haven't read your contract with the record label, Lars, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that, no, you do not have the right to download the music. Your record label probably controls the digital distribution rights of the music contained in that album and, unless you got their permission, you don't have that right. Remember the war you waged for the past several years? That's what was at the core of that fight.
But, like I said, I haven't read your contract so I might be mistaken.
Re:Wrong. (Score:5, Insightful)
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I think this bit of history is lost on the Slashdot crowd, but Metallica originally signed a typical "we own your work" contract. Around the time of Master of Puppets, Metallica sued their label and won their copyrights back.
(there's a video out there, somewhere, of a younger Jaymz arguing with an EMI executive - long before they were swallowed up into Warner Music - saying "this contract shit is all about control. You want control? Well fuck you, you can't have any. If you want Metallica you lose control."
Boring. (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, if he'd had some insight or something this might've been interesting, but all he did was download his own album, call the process bizarre, and.. nothing.
He could have commented on how fantastically easy it was and how that ease makes it a huge temptation and had some kind of ..thing to say.. about that..
But it's just several paragraphs of fluff about how he gets together with friends to drink wine and click about web pages*, but only just now** tried to find out about something they've been railing against..
*which, frankly, doesn't exactly sound very Metal to me...
**and by now, I mean a year ago, of course...
I thought even he knew it's wrong? (Score:2, Funny)
Don't Download This Song! [youtube.com]
Fuck you Lars (Score:5, Insightful)
You're a douchebag and a hypocrite.
I haven't purchased a Metallica album since The Black Album and will never again. (Granted that was the last decent one they had...) You damn near single handedly spearheaded this RIAA anti-filesharing war. Out of spite and general boycott I do not listen to my old Metallica CDs, nor do I have any of them encoded to my computer. I refuse to go to your absurdly overpriced concerts. I will not download or share your music, not because of "piracy" but because I refuse to give any publicity to you or your whining old man bandmates. The "piracy" that you crusaded against made you what you are today. And here you are, yet again, showing what a fucking hypocrite you are and missing the entire fucking point of your previous arguments against file sharing. Peoples' lives have been financially ruined and had their education hampered or destroyed by your asinine crusade while you sit untouchable on your golden throne in your mansion. Fuck you Lars, and fuck you Metallica. Bite my shiney Metal-head ass.
Rewarding dishonesty (Score:3, Insightful)
So, all those other bands on RIAA labels, who by their association contribute just as much to the RIAA legal budget as does Metallica, do you boycott them as well? I bet you don't.
You only boycott the outspoken and honest. All the other weasels, who want money for their music as well, but play it strategic and don't say anything that might upset anyone, you're okay with them. They sue their customers just as much, it's just that they leave it to the record companies to do it on their behalf, so they don't
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So, all those other bands on RIAA labels, who by their association contribute just as much to the RIAA legal budget as does Metallica, do you boycott them as well? I bet you don't.
Actually yes I do [riaaradar.com]. Not only that but I don't even listen to the radio (unless I'm stuck in someone else's car). Haven't for almost a decade now. If it wasn't for "piracy" I wouldn't even know about any of the bands I listen to now (and pay concert money for, and buy their CDs {believe it or not}, and their merch, and tell other friends about who buy their CDs, concert tickets, and merch).
You only boycott the outspoken and honest. All the other weasels, who want money for their music as well, but play it strategic and don't say anything that might upset anyone, you're okay with them. They sue their customers just as much, it's just that they leave it to the record companies to do it on their behalf, so they don't get their hands dirty.
The bands don't sue anyone (rarely, if ever). It is the companies that own the bands' copyrights that sue. The bands comp
Full user experience (Score:5, Funny)
WTG Lars! (Score:2)
Sure, but (Score:3, Funny)
...after completing that download and finding out how easy it was. He had absolutely no right to download the entire Slayer discography. :D
I've always liked Metallica (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm a big fan. I have all of their CDs up until when they started nagging about Napster (ReLoad is the latest studio recording and S&M the latest live I own). I have not bought a single Metallica CD since. I have not downloaded anything either. I have never heard Saint Anger or Death Magnetic. I had the opportunity to see them in Denver during the Saint Anger tour and decided against it. Their whole attitude about electronic media disgusts me. The whole rebel act they put forward in their songs is just that then, just an act. When they don't understand an issue and so much as suspect it might hurt the bottom line, they side with the man. Bah.
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I have never heard Saint Anger
Metallica fans everywhere envy you.
Re:Metalica's New Look (Score:5, Funny)
NOW? Hetfield's been peppering his singing with "Yo-Ho" for so long, I don't know why there's no parrot on his shoulder yet.
Re:Metalica's New Look (Score:5, Funny)
That's a long way away from the kill 'em all days. It is very sad.
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Per Clark Howard, anyone who wants a free copy of their credit report should instead go to annualcreditreport.com. That's the official site that's sponsored by Equifax, Experian, and Transunion.
I have no connection to either site but honestly, freecreditreport.com annoys the hell out of me with their advertisements and they have faced government action several times in the past because of misleading advertising. So, I can't say I'm eager to
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It doesn't really require knowing how file sharing works to oppose it. The end result -- people who didn't purchase your CDs ending up with what is, in effect, a copy of the CD -- is fairly clear, and it certainly violates current copyright law.
Being familiar with how the file sharing is actually done is only really necessary if you want to incorporate it into your business model or you want to effectively sue file sharers. (In the latter case, if you're competent and pursuing a civil case, you say to yours
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