RIAA Backs Down In Texas Case 221
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "After receiving a Rule 11 Sanctions Motion (PDF) in a Houston, Texas, case, UMG Recordings v. Lanzoni, the RIAA lawyers thought better of proceeding with the case, and agreed to voluntarily dismiss the case 'with prejudice', which means it is over and cannot be brought again. The defendant's motion papers detailed some of the RIAA's litigation history against innocent individuals, such as Capitol Records v. Foster and Atlantic Recording v. Andersen, and argued that the awarding of attorneys fees in those cases has not sufficiently deterred repetition of the misconduct, so that a stronger remedy — Rule 11 sanctions — is now called for."
Spiffy! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Spiffy! (Score:5, Insightful)
Given the fact that the size of the fines rule 11 sanctions are set by the judge (not predetermined) I'd say it's more like they leveled a howitzer on the RIAA and the RIAA blinked. Sure, the howitzer might not be loaded, but is it really worth the risk?
Re:Spiffy! (Score:5, Funny)
Somehow I don't think it was the howitzer that was at risk of being leveled. Now, the RIAA, on the other hand...
Re:Spiffy! (Score:5, Insightful)
The size of the fine is set by the judge, but here's what the plaintiff asked the judge for (taken from the last paragraph of the pdf.)
"In this case, the Court should award Defendant Lanzoni all of her costs and expenses in defending this lawsuit. In addition, this Court should make a finding that the use of an IP address to identify the defendant in a peer-to-peer copyright infringement case is not sufficiently reliable for the Plaintiffs to rely upon..."
Maybe I'm just not that good at reading legalese, but if that means 'I don't want $big$money$ from the RIAA, I want the court to rule that from now on nobody can be sued based on their IP address' then I'm very impressed with the defendant's decision to place the greater good over their own financial gain.
Re:Spiffy! (Score:5, Funny)
Dirty Harry, its characters and quotes are copyrights of Warner Brothers(TM). The above quote is only meant as a humorous reference to a pop culture icon and is not meant as a performance of copyrighted material.
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More like they've been staring into space, and just woke up.
They don't need the litigation anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
They're getting to the point they don't need the litigation anymore. They're setting it up so either everyone is forced to pay into their welfare system for a failed industry through a tax on all internet connectivity or they can, without proof or recourse, have you disconnected from the internet.
Re:They don't need the litigation anymore (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:They don't need the litigation anymore (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.comcast.net/terms/use/ [comcast.net]
Re:They don't need the litigation anymore (Score:5, Funny)
Your ISP still allows breathing?
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I am not a lawyer, but the TOS you linked says (emphasis mine):
In the section on technical restrictions, it says the you are not allowed to:
So it appears that using TightVNC for your own personal use is allowed by this clause.
Re:They don't need the litigation anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
My favorite line was the part where you are forbidden to: ... in any way constitutes or encourages conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, or otherwise violate any local, state, federal, or non-U.S. law, order, or regulation....
* undertake or accomplish any unlawful purpose. This includes, but is not limited to, posting, storing, transmitting or disseminating information, data or material which
Good to know that in order to be eligible for Comcast service, you you must submit to the laws of China, North Korea, Iran, and the orders of every other petty dictator on the planet....
Re:They don't need the litigation anymore (Score:5, Funny)
Good to know that in order to be eligible for Comcast service, you you must submit to the laws of China, North Korea, Iran, and the orders of every other petty dictator on the planet....
You forgot to mention the laws of the Intergalactic Federation under His Grand Emporer Malicon IX.
I for one welcome the total control of our totalitarian overlords.
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They don't need "proof." There is no law that says your cable or phone company *has* to provide you with internet service (it's not a property right like public education).
Yes, there is. Consumer protection laws.
it's not a property right like public education)
Public education is not a property right, it's a civil right, you Libertarian moron.
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Is that true in areas where the carrier is given a monopoly in order to better serve the local community?
In that case, aren't they required to offer services to everyone who can pay who lives in the monopolized area?
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Not that a TOS is a legally binding contract...
No they are the terms to a legally binding contract. What's your point?
I think my point would be that clause that's usually in there stating that they can unilaterally change the anything in the TOS at any time, rape your mother, help themselves to your beer, etc, without notice before or afterhand to you. That's not how terms of a contract work.
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They're setting it up so either everyone is forced to pay into their welfare system for a failed industry through a tax on all internet connectivity or they can, without proof or recourse, have you disconnected from the internet.
It could actually be a good development. If everyone were forced to pay, everyone would share an interest in stopping RIAA. The way things are now, only people unlucky enough to have been sued have an interest in stopping them.
I consciously don't buy music anymore. I don't pirate it either. I just do without. Why? Because I can't bring myself to give my hard earned money to the thieving cocksuckers that comprise the RIAA and contribute to their program of turning the internet into a police state.
Re:They don't need the litigation anymore (Score:5, Informative)
"I consciously don't buy music anymore."
Do as I do. Buy used CDs. Here in the Greater Boston/Cambridge/Somerville Co-Prosperity Sphere, there are several used CD/DVD shops. Sure, you may have to wait a few weeks to get the latest CD, but RIAA never sees a penny of your money.
And many artists sell CDs on their websites. Yeah, they buy them from the record companies, but they, the artists, get to keep the money from the CD sales.
Finally, local bands almost always have CDs they burn themselves. Supporting local artists with purchases is the best thing you can do to keep independent artists making music.
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Technically the RIAA never sees a penny of your money, but you are removing copies of the record from the market, making it marginally more likely (with each purchase) that someone needing the record will have to purchase it new.
Just sayin'.
I couldn't possibly do without music (Score:4, Insightful)
Thank god there are thousands of artists making music every single day and sharing it under acceptable terms. Cf. jamendo, magnatune, etc.
Re:They don't need the litigation anymore (Score:5, Informative)
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RIAA radar [riaaradar.com] is your friend. Look for the labels not on the MAFIAA's payroll and support them for doing something right.
You are so right esocid. I consult that site every day.
Re:They don't need the litigation anymore (Score:4, Interesting)
They're getting to the point they don't need the litigation anymore. They're setting it up so either everyone is forced to pay into their welfare system for a failed industry through a tax on all internet connectivity or they can, without proof or recourse, have you disconnected from the internet.
Your recourse is a libel suit. Now thay have to prove you are a pirate, or pay you off.
And this means what? (Score:5, Interesting)
And a question, what is the impact of these sanctions? Could this cost the RIAA enough to really act as a deterrent? Also, if at all how is this relevant in future cases?
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If you read the motion (especially the conclusion), it will help answer these questions. It's a pretty quick read and isn't very difficult to understand (just a few terms that may cause someone to stumble if they don't have a legal background).
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Keep in mind that said document is a motion filed by the defense - it is not a court ruling or decision. You can say virtually anything you want in a motion.
The RIAA felt the thread of the motion being granted was sufficient to back out of the case entirely, though.
Re:And this means what? (Score:5, Informative)
First to NewYorkCountryLawyer, thanks from all of us for fighting the good fight!
Thanks. And thank you for your support.
And a question, what is the impact of these sanctions?
Sanctions weren't awarded; the motion was withdrawn because the RIAA, rather than risk sanctions, withdrew the case within the "safe harbor" period.
Could this cost the RIAA enough to really act as a deterrent?
Absolutely. There is nothing a lawyer should fear more than a sanctions ruling.
Also, if at all how is this relevant in future cases?
Highly relevant. This incident will encourage other defendant's lawyers to make early Rule 11 motions. And the attorney, veteran IP litigator Sid Leach, prepared excellent discovery documents and motion papers, which the rest of us will be able to consult and borrow from in the future.
Re:And this means what? (Score:4, Informative)
So, in other words, this won't dissuade the RIAA one whit, but it might make it hard for them to find lawyers willing to work for them.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:And this means what? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd be curious to know if you have any wisdom to share regarding the new direction that RIAA seems to be taking.
The only wisdom I have to share at this point is : if you find out your ISP is in league with the RIAA, change ISP's, and let them know why you left.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
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This is when small companies start to thrive again.
Suddenly the monoliths are too big and greedy to carry their own weight and the small agile less corrupt will be ready on the sidelines picking up the spill.
Re:And this means what? (Score:5, Interesting)
The only wisdom I have to share at this point is : if you find out your ISP is in league with the RIAA, change ISP's, and let them know why you left.
The only problem being that for most people the options are very limited and the way it's set up now it's nigh on impossible to start an ISP outside of the incumbent cable and phone companies. So if both members in your area (most people are lucky if they have 2 options: cable and phone company) of the current oligarchy opt into the RIAA system your options are much slower broadband at best or dialip.
.
Alas (Score:2, Offtopic)
The RIAA, as per that other article, isn't disclosing which ISPs it has in its pocket.
Oh, and furthermore it'll be all of 'em any day now anyway, won't it? Little ISPs that don't play ball will be broken like champagne flutes.
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The only wisdom I have to share at this point is : if you find out your ISP is in league with the RIAA, change ISP's, and let them know why you left.
Well, start the list with AT&T, Comcast and Cox cable [cnet.com].
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Any suggestions if both of the ISPs in your area are doing this?
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Obviously IANAL, but hypothetically, if the requested sanctions had been granted, would that not also give the ISP a reason to not sign such an agreement with the RIAA (or possibly even to break such an agreement)?
After all, if an individual could not be prosecuted based on an IP address, then presumably the ISP couldn't be held responsible for not divulging an IP address or disconnecting based on an IP address. In other words, not working with the RIAA would cost the ISP less than working with them.
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And the attorney, veteran IP litigator Sid Leach, prepared excellent discovery documents and motion papers, which the rest of us will be able to consult and borrow from in the future.
Pirate.
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Re: Sid Leach, the attorney who filed the motion:
I've personally worked closely with Sid on a case several years back where I was a technical consultant for the company I worked for on an IP case. Sid totally changed my opinion of lawyers for the better, and I seriously considered going to law school after my experience working with him. He's a super nice guy, and extremely smart.
We would meet late in the evening the night before a court appearance, and the next morning he would have a amazingly well writt
waste of money (Score:5, Insightful)
When will the RIAA stop wasting money on these cases? There is no way they are ever going to win settlements or recover damages that offset their cost it takes to litigate. I guess the RIAA lawyers are making money though, not like they are going to recommend to stop the pursuit.
Re:waste of money (Score:5, Insightful)
They don't need to make money on the cases. In fact, they can spend $1m on legal fees for a $100k judgment and still come out ahead.
Why?
Because it motivates the other 99,999 people that got 'settlement offers' of $5-10k to pay up. Sad, but true.
Re:waste of money (Score:5, Insightful)
From the RIAA's point of veiw, they are not "wasting money". The organization makes a profit from these lawsuits (and the associated settlements). It's only when either:
1. The lawyers are likely to lose their licenses or:
2. The lawsuit/settlement program stops being profitable.
that they will stop the lawsuits.
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Please keep up. There are new lawsuits since that announcement.
Re:waste of money (Score:5, Interesting)
When will the RIAA stop wasting money on these cases?
They won't. The old business model is dead, and the new business model is brain dead. The old model was that it cost uberbucks to record an album, so the artist couldn't make a record without the labels.
Now, the price of recording has come down to the point that anybody can record an album in a professional studio and have the CDs professionally pressed and packaged for as little as $1 per copy.
This leaves the labels to distribute and market, and marketing means radio. You have to be on a major label to get on the radio.
The independants have the internet and P2P, and THIS is what the labels are trying to kill; it's about stifling the competetion.
The new business model is paid downloads. The trouble with this is the indies are giving FREE downloads for promotion and making their money off CDs and live shows.
The music industry as we knew it is dead, and I for one am glad. The RIAA labels' days are numbered, and they won't be able to steal from their artists and customers for too much longer.
Lawrence Lessig talks about the four reasons for P2P in his book Free Culture. Cory Doctorow talks about it in the preface to his book Little Brother, which has been on the NYT best seller list. You can buy either book at any bookstore, or check it out for free at your local public library, or download them for free from the authors' prospective websites.
Both books are making a handy profit. As I said, Doctorow's is a best seller, which kind of puts the lie to the RIAA's pathetic whining.
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Show me one case where this is true and you can prove it. You're making the claim, so back it up.
While I have no doubt about the capability of independent bands to utilize the internet, I sincerely doubt that the sole reason for these lawsuits is to stifle their ability to use the internet to self-promote, and not the mass trading of works that RIAA member companies hold the rights
Re:waste of money (Score:5, Informative)
Actually he is somewhat right.
Here in Denmark a chain of shops that deal with items costing between $1 and $2 (guess you guys call them dollar stores?) has started its own label - it is a no bullshit label, you get 50% of profit from sales, default print I think is 1.000 CDs or 10.000 and the shop carries the risk.
CDs are selling like you wouldn't believe it - apparently people are willing to pay $2 for a CD from a group they never heard of (I for one am, heck if it sucks I can use it as a fancy coaster).
The olden ways are dead, just a matter of time.
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That is just fantastic! Amazingly cool. Capatalism for the win! I hope that idea speads to America.
So what happens with Rule 11? (Score:5, Interesting)
A few questions for anyone who might know:
1. Does voluntarily dismissing the case with prejudice prevent them from getting sanctioned?
2. Independent of #1, what happens if you are sanctioned under Rule 11?
3. How often is a party sanctioned this way?
Re:So what happens with Rule 11? (Score:5, Informative)
A few questions for anyone who might know: 1. Does voluntarily dismissing the case with prejudice prevent them from getting sanctioned?
Yes so long as they do it within the 21-day "safe harbor" period, which they did.
2. Independent of #1, what happens if you are sanctioned under Rule 11?
There are many possible penalties, from nominal to crushing... but for any attorney it's a huge black mark on his or her record.
3. How often is a party sanctioned this way?
Rarely. Rule 11 motions are rarely made. It is an extreme thing. I've only made a couple in my 30 years as a lawyer. One of them was against the RIAA lawyers.
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Thank you.
I take it the RIAA attorneys felt it had an actual chance of being granted in this case?
Re:So what happens with Rule 11? (Score:4, Informative)
1. Yes, if it's within 21 days after the motion for sanctions is filed.
2. The attorney has to pay fines with a goal of deterrence and not compensation. (If the attorney is poor, they'll be fined less.) The attorney's client can be held joint & severally liable. Your professional reputation as an attorney suffers, and in extreme circumstances, it might serve as pretty bad evidence towards an attorney malpractice suit or a disbarment hearing.
3. Extremely rarely. It's generally reserved for lawyers acting in very bad faith, and the 21 day safe harbor gives attorneys a way to amend the offending action. Courts are generally willing to give attorneys the benefit of the doubt on whether they did something with a good faith belief that it was true or not. Only a truly stubborn fool gets Rule 11 sanctioned most of the time.
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1. Yes, at least Rule 11 sanctions, the safe harbor allows the party to avoid sanctions by dismissing the case before the motion is filed with the court.
2. The court orders the attorneys and/or the plaintiff to pay money. The attorney is not allowed to pass the cost on to their client if the attorney is sanctioned, and because of that it is a very strong deterrent.
3. Not often at all. Most attorneys will out of courtesy refrain from even making rule 11 motions in anything but the most severe cases of abus
I've always wondered (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I've always wondered (Score:5, Funny)
I think you answered your own question.
Two birds? (Score:5, Funny)
While they're in there, maybe they should check for ibuprofen and save our school administrators some trouble?
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Within a couple of years kids will be able to carry around and exchange thumb drives large enough to hold ALL of the music produced in the last decade
You can already carry around all the good music produced in the last decade on a mini CD, provided you use a compressed format. Personally I woudn't want all the music produced in the last decade.
There's a reason all the twenty somethings are playing '70s, '80s, and '90s rock in the bars to the other twentysomething patrons. Young people still have good taste,
Re:I've always wondered (Score:4, Insightful)
There's a reason all the twenty somethings are playing the hits of the '70s, '80s, and '90s rock in the bars to the other twentysomething patrons.
Let's not overlook the fact that there's always shovelware music made, we just don't remember it because, simply put, it was forgettable.
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It does seem that the shovelware is growing in proportion to the rest of late. That could be a sign that I'm getting older and I'm just not into the newer music, but I don't think that's it. It takes me a lot longer to hear about something good than it used to, but it's not as if 'good' is defined to be something that sounds like what I used to listen to.
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I can guarantee that in 15 years, twentysomethings will be playing hits of the past decade (meaning 2000-2010), saying "Man, music was good back then, now it's all crap!".
As Volante pointed out, you don't remember the truly horrifying music of the 70s, 80s, and 90s, because it's not memorable.
My grandfather thought my dad's music was crap; he preferred to listen to Dean Martin. My dad thought my music was crap; he preferred to listen to Led Zeppelin. I think the music of today is crap; I prefer to listen to
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Well, that certainly makes this case [slashdot.org] a bit more important.
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Cavity searches? Pffft. The goatse man can carry all of the music and movies (in HD) ever made.
While using 10 year old media and using uncompressed formats.
More details? In English? (Score:2)
What is Rule 11? Is this a Texas rule or U.S. rule?
As a Texas resident, it would be nice to better understand what is happening in the event I may be falsely accused of any such thing. (Heck, even legitimately accused... I have two teenage boys who like music.)
From wikipedia (Score:5, Informative)
For what it's worth, here is what wikipedia has on Rule 11 Sanctions
Rule 11 requires all papers to be signed by the attorney (if party is represented). It also provides for sanctions against the attorney or client for harassment, frivolous arguments, or a lack of factual investigation. The purpose of sanctions is deterrent, not punitive. Courts have broad discretion about the exact nature of the sanction which can include consent to in personam jurisdiction, fines, dismissal of claims, or dismissal of the entire case. The current version of Rule 11 is much more lenient than its 1983 version. Supporters of tort reform in Congress regularly call for legislation to make Rule 11 stricter.
Basically, it's a federal rule meant to deter abuses of the justice system and the fines can be practically whatever the judge wants them to be. That's a pretty scary prospect if you are concerned that you might have pissed off the judge enough that he would impose the sanctions on you, since you don't know how much money you stand to lose.
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Federal rule. Federal Rules of Civil Procedure Rule 11 [cornell.edu] about what an attorney filing a pleading, motion or paper is representing to the court. The key part is that it requires the attorney to represent that the filing is not just to harrass or annoy the other party and that it's not frivolous and has some basis in law and/or evidence.
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This begs the question as to why this hasn't been done long ago. Now that I know what it is and what its purpose is, why isn't it used more often?
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Well, it's a really major thing. It's not saying the attorney being sanctioned made a mistake. It's saying that they didn't make a mistake, that they deliberately and knowingly lied to the court. Even when that's the honest truth, judges are loathe to level that charge at an attorney. So while Rule 11 sanctions are often asked for, they're usually only granted in extreme cases where the judge can't find any way of justifying not imposing them.
And yes, I do think they should be imposed more often. They shoul
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What sanctions..? (Score:3, Informative)
So, no sanctions will actually be enforced. The defendant's threat of Rule 11 sanctions just scared them out of pursuing this particular case.
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Since the RIAA is clearly going to lose, i wouldn't mind if NYCL didn't let them off the hook so easy. If possible.
Is the court obligated to accept their dismissal?
Haven't the defendants suffered harm thus far?
I wish there was a way for the defendants to countersue the RIAA for malicious prosecution or something. A few million dollars in punitive damages against the RIAA would send a signal, methinks.
Also, I would rather some legal precedent be established in the defendant's favor so that the RIAA would g
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Since the RIAA is clearly going to lose, i wouldn't mind if NYCL didn't let them off the hook so easy. If possible.
This wasn't NYCL's case.
Is the court obligated to accept their dismissal?
As a general rule, not always.
But in this instance, Rule 11 gives the plaintiff a chance to withdraw the case.
The RIAA needs (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The RIAA needs (Score:4, Interesting)
In England, there is the possibility of being declared a "vexatious litigant", which severely restricts your ability to bring lawsuits.
Is there an equivalent in the US, and if so, how close are the RIAA to being placed on the list?
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What about the financial harm caused? (Score:4, Insightful)
I just love how RIAA walks-away from a case, with no punishment. How am I... I mean the defendant supposed to recover the 20,000 dollars and 4 years wasted on this case? (At this point a shot to the head of CEO seems like good compensation.)
Re:What about the financial harm caused? (Score:5, Insightful)
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A counter suit for malicious or frivolous prosecution is the next step. More then likely they would settle out of court on that since the evidence was strong enough for their case to fall part\get dismissed\etc. Hell you could small claims court them and probably get a no-show for a quick8 grand. The airline ticket\hotel for their attourney would probably be at least $1200.
Re:What about the financial harm caused? (Score:4, Interesting)
I sure hope her attourney files, and the judge uses a significant multiplier on the fees...
Perhaps the same multiplier the RIAA uses to calculate damages per mp3?
Could have been a lot worse (Score:5, Funny)
They could have received a Rule 34 sanction.
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Not defined, just popularized.
That's awesome! (Score:2)
In celebration of this court victory, I will pirate Jon Wayne CDs [youtube.com] all day long!
Defendant's lawyer wins, defendant loses (Score:5, Informative)
The defendant has lost time and money on this case and gained nothing. Even if every case is resolved like this, the intimidation strategy will still be effective.
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As I said elsewhere: "(At this point a shot to the head of CEO seems like good compensation.)" You waste ~20,000 dollars and four years of my life - SOME kind of punishment needs to be dealt.
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This by far the largest imbalance in the legal system.
If a big company/corporation/MAFIAA starts a lawsuit against an individual, it can easily bankrupt an individual in a short time period while being a drop in the bucket to the company/corporation.
The defendants in most of these cases loose considerably even if they have the lawsuit dropped somewhere in the process. They have almost no means to win, as the MAFIAA does everything it can to avoid paying out a cent while fleecing individuals.
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This by far the largest imbalance in the legal system. If a big company/corporation/MAFIAA starts a lawsuit against an individual, it can easily bankrupt an individual in a short time period while being a drop in the bucket to the company/corporation. The defendants in most of these cases loose considerably even if they have the lawsuit dropped somewhere in the process. They have almost no means to win, as the MAFIAA does everything it can to avoid paying out a cent while fleecing individuals.
You are exactly right. I discuss the economic imbalance problem, and the mischief it has caused, in detail, in the 'equal access to justice' issue of The Judges Journal, published by the American Bar Association, in my article, "Large Recording Companies vs. The Defenseless : Some Common Sense Solutions to the Challenges of the RIAA Litigations [blogspot.com]".
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This is my question to NYCL. Can a judge modify the order to require the plaintiff to pay for the defendants costs?
No.
If not, then the defendant is out the legal costs
Correct.
and this is really no victory what so ever
That's a matter of opinion.
because the RIAA can still use this case as leverage for their extortion scheme (pay us $5000 now or you will pay $20,000 whether you win or lose).
They would never use that terminology.
If I were a defendant in this situation, I would fight the motion for dismissal on those grounds.
Maybe. Maybe not.
I hope you never have to find out.
So they can still walk away from this? (Score:5, Insightful)
So, just to get this straight, the RIAA pursued a questionable case that has already costed the defendant money to prepare for, and as soon as credible resistance emerges they quickly run and do it again to someone else - without sanctions?
Or did I miss something?
Re:So they can still walk away from this? (Score:5, Informative)
So, just to get this straight, the RIAA pursued a questionable case that has already cost the defendant money to prepare for, and as soon as credible resistance emerges they quickly run and do it again to someone else - without sanctions? Or did I miss something?
No you didn't miss anything.
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would it now be possible to put together a boilerplate response kit
A "boilerplate response kit"? No.
A growing library of helpful materials to which the practitioner can refer? Yes. And the motion, discovery responses, discovery notices, and expert's report prepared by defendant's lawyer make an excellent contribution to that library.
which would vastly reduce the cost and time of putting up said credible resistance?
The library does indeed reduce the cost and time of defense, and increases the efficiency and effectiveness of our efforts.
Also, will the repeated threat of section 11 judgements affect the credibility of the RIAA's lawyers?
Their "credibility"? No. But an order awarding Rule 11 sanctions would have an effect on their credibility.
Is This Really a Victory? (Score:2)
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You've misread the summary. Specifically, it is exactly the opposite of what you've surmised.
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If it wasn't the RIAA, I'd say something like "Unbelievable!".
"That word, you keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means."
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Most likely, they can also prove that she doesn't have the technical know-how to set up such a configuration.