Sun Microsystems May Have Violated Bribery Law 111
Afforess writes "In a new file submitted to the Securities and Exchange Commission, Sun Microsystems admitted that 'we have identified potential violations of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, the resolution of which could possibly have a material effect on our business.' The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act makes it 'unlawful to make a payment to a foreign official for the purpose of obtaining or retaining business for or with, or directing business to, any person.' Yet, Sun would not release further details, only that it 'took remedial action.' Oracle, the new owner of Sun Microsystems, also said that they had prior knowledge of the infraction, yet also refused to release any details."
Since most people don't RTFA (Score:5, Informative)
For those of you that won't RTFA, this may not be a big deal and is fairly common.
For example, in 2007, networking provider Alcatel-Lucent agreed to pay $2.5 million to settle charges that Lucent Technologies, before it was bought by Alcatel SA in 2006, illegally paid for hundreds of trips for Chinese officials to win contracts. In a separate case, IBM Corp. agreed in 2000 to pay $300,000 to settle allegations that its Argentina subsidiary was involved in bribing officials of a government-owned bank to win a contract to upgrade the bank's computer systems.
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Everybody's doing it. Everybody knows everybody's doing it. There's no jail time and the fines are light, so corporations are happy to break the law and pay the money. The government doesn't actually care about foreign corruption. It's basically a tax on doing business abroad.
Re:Since most people don't RTFA (Score:5, Funny)
They DO care about foreign corruption. Thats money that could have been paid to US government officials.
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Oh really? Check out the fine they slapped on Siemens last year. 1.6 billion USD... See http://www.secactions.com/?p=655 [secactions.com]
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Bullshit. (Score:2)
Every unethical person is doing it.
It may come as a surprise to many people that have never worked in a big corporation, but ethics are taken seriously, when individuals decide to ignore ethical guidelines more often than not the guilty party is disciplined, but in many cases you may not get to know about this.
In all the big companies where I have worked we received training about these topics, even if we were not actually facing costumers at all. These training was refreshed at least once a year, and this
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I always thought this rule only applied to Defense Contractors like Northrop or Lockheed (we get lectured about it constantly). I had no idea it applies to regular businesses too. Interesting.
Also:
Can someone tell me what's wrong with Slashdot's front page? I want my low-bandwidth, dialup-friendly version back but despite changing my preference multiple times, I'm getting some frakked-up yellow-and-white monstrosity.
Re:Since most people don't RTFA (Score:5, Funny)
Can someone tell me what's wrong with Slashdot's front page? I want my low-bandwidth, dialup-friendly version back but despite changing my preference multiple times, I'm getting some frakked-up yellow-and-white monstrosity.
you have to bribe someone to get what you want
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Can someone tell me what's wrong with Slashdot's front page? I want my low-bandwidth, dialup-friendly version back but despite changing my preference multiple times, I'm getting some frakked-up yellow-and-white monstrosity.
Ditto. It looks like it's telling my browser to render it by some RSS settings. I see a lot of the tags like "em" "/em".
Is it really that hard for you idiots running slashdot to leave well-enough alone? If it ain't broke, don't sodomize it beyond recognition.
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I ask that question every time a new piece of software arrives. Sometimes the upgrade is worthwhile, but oftentimes "they" change things and make them worse not better. Like when Microsoft got rid of the "turnoff computer" option in Vista, and I couldn't figure out how to do a proper shutdown. (How was I supposed to know some obscure |> thing meant shutdown???)
Anyway...
I fixed the front page by switching from Low bandwidth to Simple design. The LB option still needs fixing though - it shouldn't be sh
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Except the colors--I override those.
Coming from Pakistan.... (Score:1, Interesting)
...and settling in US, I have seen a lot of bribery in Action, here and back home.
Place where I work, large bank here in US, a contractor wins all the contracts for software development. Not because he is competitive, but because he sponsors the directors horse racing team. On paper its clean, XYZ has a horse racing team, PQR sponsors the team. In the bank, Mr XYZ awards all contracts to Mr PQR.
Back home, PQR would have just handed over keys to a new car to XYZ.
That is the only difference.
West has learned h
I am sorry, but that is not bribery. (Score:2)
How particulars decide to complete business deals is up to them.
The situation you describe is distasteful and perhaps immoral, but I doubt very much it would be considered illegal.
If either party was an elected representative then you would have a point, as it stands you simply look completely confused....
So, bribery violations "settled" by more bribery.. (Score:2)
For those of you that won't RTFA, this may not be a big deal and is fairly common.
For example, in 2007, networking provider Alcatel-Lucent agreed to pay $2.5 million to settle charges that Lucent Technologies, before it was bought by Alcatel SA in 2006, illegally paid for hundreds of trips for Chinese officials to win contracts. In a separate case, IBM Corp. agreed in 2000 to pay $300,000 to settle allegations that its Argentina subsidiary was involved in bribing officials of a government-owned bank to win a contract to upgrade the bank's computer systems.
It's nice to know our bribery laws basically equate to "where's our share - signed: the US government"
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Not to excuse our government, but what other option do they really have? Put the multinational corporation's headquarters in jail? Hitting a corporation with a fine is speaking the only language that it cares about.
How about imposing sanctions on their ability to market products in that nation, or jailing the executives responsible (even if oversaes by using the afore mentioned sanctions as leverage).
No no.. that would have actual TEETH.
if top corps were under threat of instantly losing their ability to sell, or instantly losing their top talent to the depths of federal prison, they would be stricter about their infractions.
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"The total hit to Siemens included a fine of $450 MILLION plus disgorgement of $350 MILLION in "tainted profits." If that isn't a "big deal" I don't know what is. It takes a lot of revenue to replace $800,000,000 in cash."
And then one goes "mode tinfoil on" and asks himself if the fact that Siemens is not a USA company could have something to do with the magnitude of fines.
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For those of you that won't RTFA, this may not be a big deal and is fairly common.
Microsoft and OOXML
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In many countries, no bribery = no business (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:In many countries, no bribery = no business (Score:5, Insightful)
With the amount of harm it does to developing economies and the people that live there, doing business this way should be treated as a crime against humanity. It retards the progression of democracy and social justice abroad and creates future demand for corruption. Just because this was the way an older generation operated doesn't mean the new generations of leaders coming out of colleges now have to continue their mistakes. It all starts with the realization that one person can actually change the world- for good or for bad. The question you have to ask yourself is simple: which way do you want to change it?
Re:In many countries, no bribery = no business (Score:5, Informative)
I know people that install solar panels... (Score:2)
They work very successfully in a Southern African country, and they haven't ever given a bribe.
They make this clear and that they will not work if they are asked one.
If people know you are not in the pull then they don't even try it.
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Bribery is an unwritten law in most of the countries where you see this kind of action. Where is your venom for them? Why should these countries not suffer embargoes or heightened tariffs because their governments permit -- and even require -- corrupt business practices?
If and when international law comes down hard on officials who solicit bribes, I will agree that it should come down hard on the other side of that corrupt coin. Unfortunately, the people who will have to agree to that law are the people
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If U.S. businesses refuse to participate in bribes, it is essentially an embargo.
As for getting rid of corrupt government officials, it may come down to a few good lynchings by dissatisfied constituents.
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"You don't want to pay to play? Fine - Raytheon/BAE Systems/Lockheed/Kollsman/Northrop/etc etc etc are all perfectly willing to take your place. "
They all American companies or have heavy interests on the American market so they are controllable.
"For every company that gets caught, a dozen more just did business"
There you have the problem then, not on the other side of the fence.
"and the US doesn't necessarily even want to catch you. Oh, on paper they do, but in reality you're talking billions of dollars of
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They all American companies or have heavy interests on the American market so they are controllable.
I think you mean "In Control". Heck, Ike warned about that specific industry and it's continued to be the worst threat to America for nearly 50 years of huge private profits at the public expense.
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And that attitude, especially among instructors (I've spoken to several business school faculty espousing this view before), prevents this from ever changing. At some point one has to make a decision about what ideals are worth holding on to.
That's true, and a corporation has no morals or ideas, only profit or failure.
Perhaps we should rethink corporations.
Frankly, since Quid Pro Quo is very much the way things are done all over the world, this is only an attack by "The System" on the way the rest of the world does business. In the USA, the bar for bribery has simply been raised. Also, it is designed such that only people in "The System" can participate in bribery. It's called campaign funding, and you can only use money which was "properly" ra
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Probably the best thing would be for all businesses to be co-ops. You can buy your way in or work your way in. There is no proxy voting, and the co-op has a charter.
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I disagree that all bribery is bad. As Murray Rothbard writes:
"What of bribery of government officials? Here a distinction must be made between "aggressive" and "defensive" bribery; the first should be considered improper and aggressive, whereas the latter should be considered proper and legitimate. Consider a typical "aggressive bribe": a Mafia leader bribes police officials to exclude other, compe
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"On the other hand, a "defensive bribe" has a radically different moral status. In such a case, for example, Robinson, seeing that gambling casinos are outlawed in a certain area, bribes policemen to allow his casino to operate - a perfectly legitimate response to an unfortunate situation."
Defensive bribery, in fact, performs an important social function throughout the world."
Yes, I can see how a drug dealer bribering local police so he can operate despite the fact that drug dealing is outlawed is a perfect
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Sorry, but you miss the fact that most of these economies would not function without bribery. There simply is not sufficient rewards for people to do their job.
For example, an official that only makes a few hundred dollars a month. Are you really expecting them to give a dam when their family is starving?
Corruption in many places is simply market forces at work, where the market does not work.
There are other folks who think like you . . . (Score:4, Interesting)
Transparency International: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_International [wikipedia.org] and http://www.transparency.org/ [transparency.org]
It's a tough road to take, but if everybody tolerates corruption, it ain't gonna go away, and it certainly hurts more than it helps.
Bribery stories are my favorite from folks doing business overseas. In order to avoid direct bribery, some companies hire local "consultants," who get paid an obscene fee to help land the contract. What they do with their money doesn't concern the company paying the fee; the bribe is indirect.
My all time favorite was from a government auditor who visited Korea to check up on three local suppliers to the US military. The suppliers made dinner arrangements, and told the auditor where to meet them. When he arrived at the restaurant, there were the three suppliers, with four prostitutes seated at the table, with one empty seat.
What's so funny? The auditor had brought his wife along to see Korea, and came with him to the restaurant. One prostitute got her pay early, and the mood at the table afterwards was uncomfortable.
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Therefore every American company must rise corruption level in every country where business is possible. Insightful! Brilliant!
Oh, some companies can not do that, they do not pay bribes here in America and do not sell 8 ears old WinXP to air forces.
Bill Gates (Score:2)
Bill Gates is the best example of a "clean" business man being massively successful. Bill's main assets were personality traits, having an parent who was an IP lawyer, and considerable good luck. He definitely engaged in abhorrent business practices, but he never bribe U.S. government politicians until the anti-trust people started coming after him.
I'd say your best bet is avoiding the politician protection racket for as long as possible. It always seems like powerful companies get massive pay offs from
Truth (Score:1)
Hence the ACTUAL project is WORTH only 50% in India.
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"First of all, you have to grease the local politicians for the sudden zoning problems that always come up. Then there's the kickbacks to the carpenters. And if you plan on using any cement in this building, I'm sure the teamsters would like to have a little chat with you, and that'll cost you. Don't forget a little something for the building inspectors. There's the long-term costs, such as waste disposal. I don't know if you're familiar with who runs that business, but I assure you it's not the boy scouts.
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And what did Mr. Dangerfield get for speaking truly? Certainly not respect...
This is complete bullshit. (Score:2)
I was part of big projects in Mexico and at no point bribery was asked for, encouraged or existing.
The company where I worked did not countenance this, and everybody in the industry knew it.
Unsurprisingly we were very busy, our government clients knew we where trustworthy and were more comfortable dealing with us.
At the end it is your ethics, if you can't makes business without doing things that are immoral or illegal you simply excruciate yourself from such deals, nothing is forcing you to associate with c
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"Oh, and I'm just an engineer, not a manager, so don't think it is my job to tow the company line..."
Probably not. But it is not your job to gain contracts around the world, either. Maybe this explains your different point of view.
par for the course (Score:5, Insightful)
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yep. If you have employees in india they had to pay bribes probably to get on the train to to work, to buy a radio, get government ID, buy a Television.
Everyone knows this law really means "don't bribe anyone in a country that would be outraged if you were caught, or don't get caught".
Maybe if Sun had been able to pay better bribes, to more relevant people they would have gotten better contracts and wouldn't be in the mess they are now. That is the sad reality of doing business in most of the world.
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There are quite a few countries who's culture is substantially different from the United States in which bribery is considered standard business practice. If you dont bribe an official in one of those countries, you dont get anything done.
No doubt true, but what's standard business practices today may not be the same tomorrow. Banking secrecy laws in countries like Switzerland, for example, have long been considered inviolate, but that's hardly the case today, is it? Chances are good that even more change
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It's not a bribe. It's just a red envelope... for good luck. Happy New Year... in May.
I joke but that's what actually happened when my grandmother had a telephone line installed in China. She wanted to make sure it doesn't mysterious get cut after the installation is done.
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...substantially different from the United States...
...in which bribery is considered standard business practice.
That doesn't sound substantially different at all to me...
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"There are quite a few countries who's culture is substantially different from the United States in which bribery is considered standard business practice"
but:
There are quite a few countries who's culture is substantially different from the United States in which bribery illegal, even if you rename it lobbying.
I love this law (Score:5, Interesting)
It's a law that is almost never followed by companies that do business overseas. And the reason they cite for doing it? Other companies are not bound by such laws and are free to engage in such practices which gives the other companies a "competitive advantage." It is practically chinese national culture that bribery occurs and is quite expected.
But the other reason I love this law is that charges associated with it often disappear with "healthy contributions" to party and individual campaign funds.
Chinese culture? (Score:1, Insightful)
It's a law that is almost never followed by companies that do business overseas. And the reason they cite for doing it? Other companies are not bound by such laws and are free to engage in such practices which gives the other companies a "competitive advantage." It is practically chinese national culture that bribery occurs and is quite expected.
But the other reason I love this law is that charges associated with it often disappear with "healthy contributions" to party and individual campaign funds.
It should be noted that this incident so far has nothing to do with China, nor is bribery or such practices restricted to China.
The way you put it, it sounds like you are making a broad generalization about Chinese culture supporting bribery and that Chinese culture is the cause of all this.
It is particularly unsettling that you have singled out its "national culture" for bashing.
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The chinese example is just an example. Other cultures thrive on corruption and bribery. Mexico is famous for it as well. I think that it is important to note that I show that it is pretty universal regardless of how they paint and re-paint the pictures.
Your post... (Score:2)
It's tough to know who to mod up when I can only think about having to pay for my kids braces this year which is going to set me back about $5,000....
I thought for a moment (Score:1)
That Sun might have been supplementing the expenses of our poor, underpaid UKian MPs......
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Apparently people overseas are more interested in cash instead of hookers, blow, pot, strippers, rounds of golf, expensive lunches with multiple $300 bottles of wine, sports tickets, customer parties, info sessions at exclusive resorts or 5 star hotel like vendor facilities, and so on and so forth.
Or maybe in addition to the above.
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Actually, under the FCPA being an employee of an American company is enough to subject you to this federal statute. You don't have to be American, or in America.
Oblig. 'Nelson': Hah! Hah! aimed at /. (Score:1, Flamebait)
This is news?
Stuff that matters?
How and how? Why and Why?
This is just business as usual in Corporate America, and has been for decades.
Glad you finally showed up at the party.
Have a cocktail and a hooker...it's all tax deductible...a business expense!
Hey, where's the Microsoft declaration? (Score:2)
They should be listing any bribes they paid for approving OOXML (;-))
P--dave
Funny story about bribery (Score:5, Informative)
In my home state there are laws against bribery and corruption of course. One of them pertains to gifts. Included in the banned gifts are food. The rule is that you cannot accept food (usually cookies) from anyone unless you eat it in front of them.
Now that last bit sounds odd, doesn't it. Obviously, the rules do allow you to accept a gift of food if you eat in front of them. So, in practice, this means that if you accept cookies for going the extra mile for somebody, you are CORRUPT and UNETHICAL!!! If, on the other hand, you are a politician and getting bought dinner by a lobbyist, you are a force for righteousness.
Apparently.
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I would imagine that the rule was written with the idea that politicians could go out and eat dinner or get a cup of coffee and not pick up the tab, and that's fine- as well as the various big get togethers and fundraisers with finger food.
As opposed to, say, receiving a 'food gift' that consists of an entire wine cellar.
Standard operating procedures- someone wrote a law with one specific thing in mind, didn't think of any other way to interpret it, and it gets passed without anyone bothering to read it. Th
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"I would imagine that the rule was written with the idea that politicians could go out and eat dinner or get a cup of coffee and not pick up the tab, and that's fine-"
Is it?
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You just gave me a great idea!!!
1. Become lobbyist.
2. Feed politician diamond-chip cookies
3. Politician passes diamonds, passes your law...
4. Profit!!!
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Step 3 is finally solved!
Frontline Covered this Recently (Score:5, Informative)
What about Microsoft doing it everywhere ?!! (Score:1)
Well, everybody here in Ukraine knows about M$ paybacks reaching 50%. The same in Russia. Affiliated companies do it every time they sell something to state. But M$ is "holly cow" of American economy and "secret weapon" of CIA so it can not be touched.
One law for all?
Anyone Surprised? (Score:1)
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Maybe not for long.
Sun's shareholders just sued to block the acquisition:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/08/sun_oracle_court_action/ [theregister.co.uk]
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Cultural arrogance (Score:2)
Corruption == Poor Government (Score:3, Informative)
This is not an instance of "cultural arrogance." It has absolutely nothing to do with the modern exportation of democracy. Instead, it is the exportation of the Rule of Law (at least, in instances where it is in our best economic and political interests.)
Corruption by government officials has been a problem as long as there has been government. There are certainly many countries in which bribery of the bureaucracy is endemic and pragmatically accepted as a fact of life, but I know of none where it is con
Why can Microsoft do this? But not Sun? (Score:2)
Paid to use Microsoft in South Africa
http://www.education.gov.za/dynamic/dynamic.aspx?pageid=310&id=8553 [education.gov.za]
Also, didn't Microsoft bribe officials to vote for OOXML approval as an ISO standard?
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>>Some of the commentators would have you believe that, if there was any substance to it then several Microsoft employees would probably be facing FCPA charges right now.http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9033701
Chicago, New York, etc (Score:2)
Big deal- when we would set up demo tables at conventions, if you didn't pay the dock boss, they would take their sweet 'ol time getting around to your spot. On the expense report my boss just put in "Bribes".
Business as Usual...Not (Score:2)
As an american owner of a company in south east asia this is normal here. I set aside 50% of my monthly profits to pay the locals. 30% to the police, 10% to the mayor, and another 10% to other random government officials to get things done. They stop by like clockwork every month to collect their "gifts". If I don't pay my business gets shut down or drugs are suddenly found in my house or property and I have to pay a lot more bribing everyone else to keep me out of jail. In some countries bribing or gifts i
In some countries... (Score:1)
But I thought this would be called... (Score:2)
"party contributions" nowadays...
Seriously... where is this different?