RIAA Victim Jammie Thomas Gets a New Lawyer 241
newtley writes "Only days after Brian Toder, her previous legal representative, had decided discretion was the better part of valour, leaving her fend for herself against the RIAA, Jammie Thomas says another lawyer has come forward with an offer of pro bono help. He's K.A.D. Camara from Camara & Sibley in Houston, Texas, says Jammie. And, 'He's the youngest person in history to graduate from Harvard Law school with honors,' she points out. Nor will her retrial be delayed, as was expected. It'll now go forward in June 15, as slated. 'I'm so happy!' Jammie said."
Young lawyer != good lawyer (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm happy for Jammie that she got a new, free lawyer. But haven't we learned already that free isn't always a good thing?! If I was going up against the RIAA I would like someone with large amounts of experience, who knows all the tricks of the trade, and who knows how the RIAA fights.
Re:Young lawyer != good lawyer (Score:5, Funny)
That depends, is this lawyer free as in speech or free as in beer?
Re:Young lawyer != good lawyer (Score:5, Funny)
That depends, is this lawyer free as in speech or free as in beer?
Let me rephrase that: can we fork him?
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But he is working pro bono...
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Well usually you buy them a drink first.
But he is working pro bono...
That settles it. Free as in beer.
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I doubt the fork will spawn in time (forks of humans take about 20 years to complete) and even if it does, it might not be the same process.
I think Jammie should fsck her lawyer first though.
Re:Young lawyer != good lawyer (Score:5, Informative)
From his Wikipedia article:
"A gifted child, he wrote a medical paper on alternative treatments for rheumatoid arthritis at age eleven,[1] which was published in the Hawai'i Journal of Medicine.[2] At sixteen, having skipped high school, Camara earned a Bachelor of Science in computer science from Hawaii Pacific University.[2] He completed the program in two years and was singularly recognized by the university for outstanding academic performance."
Yes, he's just 25 and perhaps could have more experience. But anyhow he seems a pretty smart guy. And note that he is the senior partner in his own law firm.
Re:Young lawyer != good lawyer (Score:5, Insightful)
"Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill"
-- Attributed to John Barrymore
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Maybe he had to start his own law firm because no-one would hire him. Having his own firm isn't exactly an indication of anything other than he has the money to pay for an office and a phone line.
Maybe he wrote his own Wikipedia article too, it's far from the first time that happened. Anyway, I hardly think Wikipedia is the best place to start looking for info on someone who could get you a long prison sentence if they screw up. It's probably t
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And note that he is the senior partner in his own law firm.
Taken by itself, that's really nothing exceptional. There are lots of lawyers who are senior partners at their own firm, primarily because they are the only lawyer at their law firm.
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Re:Young lawyer != good lawyer (Score:5, Insightful)
This just snells like he is trying to take advantage of the situation to get some free exposure (In my opinion of course). That is not always in the best interest of the accused.
He is taking the side opposite of corporate fatcats, people who could potentially employ him for large sums of money. If he's doing this for the dough, he's not very smart.
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He is taking the side opposite of corporate fatcats, people who could potentially employ him for large sums of money. If he's doing this for the dough, he's not very smart.
You can piss off the corporate fat cats; if you beat them senseless in court, then they will immediately see the merits of hiring you. If they see a need for you, they'll hire you in a second. With that said, 99.9% of the "fat cats" have lawyers on retainer and/or their very own legal staff.
Also, this guy is apparently quite intelligent. Maybe he is actually smart enough to know there's more to life than money.
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Maybe he is actually smart enough to know there's more to life than money.
The only problem with that is that you need money to buy all of the stuff that goes along with "more" ;)
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Any lawyer that passes the bar can start their own small firm and be a senior partner init. That doesn't mean that they have lots of money, or even lots of clients.
Non-PC shorthand (Score:5, Insightful)
Many blacks refer to each other and themselves as niggers.
Non-whites can actually (usually) get away with using the term. Whites can't, but that's because whites are, by definition, racist.
Not all black people think this way, but the word nigger is not necessarily racist. At least this guy is willing to post his raw brain dumps with a warning instead of a whitewash. Maybe he has prejudices, maybe he was just writing as fast as he could during the lecture.
FWIW, I've found that people who recognize their own prejudices generally are less prejudiced in their behavior than people who don't.
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THANK YOU SO MUCH.
You have solved me biggest day to day issue!
I have been getting my ass beaten severely on a practically daily basis when walking through north Philly listing to hip hop on my ipod, singing along as loudly as I can!
Now I understand, it's because I was saying that word and I'm white!!!
The solution is clear.
Now, if I can only find enough shoe polish....
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whites are don't have any particular interest or stake in the semantics that govern the identification of black people.
They are don't? Shucks, wilbur.
Fixed that for you. Jackass.
Not really. Dumbfuck.
Actually, whites DO have a particular interest and stake in the semantics that "govern" the identification of "black" people. (I would use the phrase "Semantics involved in the", but whatever.) See, we all live here together. So, I'm concerned about the issue. Also, I would like to be able to use the word "Niggard".
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Concerned, sure, so am I, but I wouldn't call that a legitimate interest in setting the semantics. If you're "concerned" that you can't call black people whatever you want, or if you feel jilted because other people can use the word "nigger" and you can't, then not only do I have no sympathy for your concern, but I think you deserve a fat lip.
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Great reply, but I think you missed that this interchange was a discussion of reiisi's comment.
My values are subjective. That doesn't mean I'm going to stand idle when people violate those values. I would insist that moral outrage is a reasonable response, but of course I should be able to clearly communicate my objection before lamely shaking my fist.
If you follow the discussion, you'll see that the outrage presented is not at the use of the word "nigger" (out of ignorance, confusion, or even outright ma
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How about referring to the guy in the office next to yours by his name.
Yes, because that always works.
Me: "My buddy from work is gonna meet us at the Star Trek move; he'll probably get there before me. "
Friend: "That's cool, I'll give him his ticket. What's he look like?"
Me: "um... his name is Ken?"
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B: Sends photo/video of Ken.
B: That's Ken.
In the future you might only have to "think" to send the message. Almost like telepathy. You might even have artificial "photographic memory", so you can recall and send.
Of course the folks in the RIAA, MPAA and Big Media would probably want DRM installed, and that would not be so good.
The tech will be here soon. I hope the laws get better.
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Heck, if a superior white male applicant between 25 and 35 gets hired over anything that doesn't fit that description, some people call foul already.
That is not only racist but also sexist and a whole damn lot of other '-ist's as well. Somehow, nobody gives a damn about it.
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That is an excellent question, considering that more than half of the people I have met who are TRULY African-American were of Caucasian descent. I don't see any particular reason to call a 5th or 6th generation immigrant to America African-American other than to be Politically Correct. I am third generation myself, but I consider myself to be an American and would never ask someone to call me Czechoslovakian-American
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Re:Non-PC shorthand (Score:4, Interesting)
As a 3th generation Irish American I agree.
I am also lacking in white guilt. None of my ansestors ever oppresed them. MY ancestors were being oppresed by the British after Lincoln freed the slaves in this country. Did any of them come over and free my people? Nope.
I know the score. I also know I would rather be a black person cut off from welfare and who has NO education AND a drug adiction problem than to be born in the lower caste in India. Or a pesant farmer in China.
Despite the fact there are some people who are outright racist in America. Some who are a bit edgy about Minorities. There are plenty of oprotunties and plenty of people who don't care what you look like. The internet helps with this. I work from home and no one knows my sex or age or skin color or religon.
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That's the convention. Refer to them as black, but only if their appearance or ethnicity is pertinent to the discussion at hand. It's not hard.
Clearly you and I both have an interest in the existence of a convention. We're just not entitled to a vote on what that convention is. With few exceptions, any white person
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Wow, 50 Cent was a slave at one point?
You really do learn something new every day...
Re:Non-PC shorthand (Score:5, Insightful)
When blacks use the word "nigger" it implies a common bond, a shared experience of hardship as a result of slavery
Oh give me a fucking break. In my experience, most of the blacks who use the word nigger are spoiled teenagers and 20-somethings of the "me" generation who know absolutely nothing about hardship or history. Most of the older folks who actually grew up during the civil rights movement rarely use the word and don't look kindly upon those that do.
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They do it out of their reverance of the black street culture, not in spite of it. In many informal interactions between blacks and non-blacks, it is acceptable for non-blacks to use the word "nigga" but NOT the word "nigger".
Oh bullshit. Kids, regardless of race, say "nigga" because they think they sound cool when they say it. When the hell do kids say ANYTHING out reverence?
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When blacks use the word "nigger" it implies a common bond, a shared experience of hardship as a result of slavery.
That's an interesting take. However, I've seen / heard it being used in a derogatory way far more often than not. That doesn't really fall in line with your band-of-brothers explanation.
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"We're all niggers in the eye of The Man"
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Re:Young lawyer != good lawyer (Score:5, Insightful)
In his first year at Harvard, Camara was involved a racial controversy that would gain attention from the national media. Like many students, Camara posted his course outlines to a popular student-run website. Camara's, however, referred to blacks as nigs. For example, to summarize Shelley v. Kraemer, he wrote "Nigs buy land with no nig covenant; Q: Enforceable?"[7] The notes were prefaced with a disclaimer that they may contain racially offensive shorthand.[7]
The case was about a line in the covenant on the piece of property a black man purchased. In it, it said that "people of the Negro or Mongolian Race" could not own the property. Camara was very aware of his wording in his notes, and used "nigs" as shorthand.
The word obviously carries the same impact as the law's phraseology, is quick to write down, and functions as a memory-jogger for the full, real quote. His notes were no more offensive than the actual law--they were just not politically correct.
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What, precisely, constitutes a bigger problem than exploitation? Granted, there may be more important cases of exploitation than RIAA suing defenseless people. Sometimes, you have to just pick your fights, because you can't fight all the battles. Apparently, this guy thinks he has an angle on this particular fight, so he's going to try to make a difference. There isn't much point in him going after, say, pirates in Somalia, after all. Or maybe the rapists and killers in other parts of Africa. He can't
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Have you read the Wiki article of the post I was replying to? His talents go far beyond being a good lawyer. He graduated Bachelor of Science at his sixteenth. He's obviously a genius, in my opinion he's wasting his talents on matters that will be unimportant in 20 years time, yet he could be providing significant help to science.
With all due respect to science and the pure pursuit of knowledge, a damn lot of it doesn't have any major impact on the world now or in 20 years time. Significant changes to copyright will have a definitive impact on hundreds of millions of people and may impact our society for many years to come. Consistent polls now show that the Pirate Party will get a mandate in the European Parliament for Sweden. Could you imagine that 10 years ago? The 90s was the web browsing decade. The 00s the file sharing decade.
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> The 10s I think will be the information revolution decade.
The 10s will be the decade where we see the struggle and balance between the incredible power of all-seeing technology used for both fascist control of every aspect of our lives and for the freedom to exchange knowledge and associate in ways never before possible.
I hope the good guys win, because George Orwell only had the slightest idea what would be possible with todays technology.
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Orwell was an optimist.
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Firstly, it is perfectly possible he is doing this in part because if he wins or even gets the RIAA to stop it is a great early achievement.
Secondly, although I have little interest in this case prosecutions brought about by the RIAA often include some very dubious behaviour. If he continues to fight cases against major business intere
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Who is to say that this will not be a landmark case revolutionising the openness of ideas that advances knowledge for all humanity. Perhaps by working with law he can push patent reform, thereby advancing the cause of science.
We need intelligent lawyers willing to stand up for individual liberties just as much as we need boffins in labs.
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instead of doing something really useful by trying to solve humanity's biggest problems.
He's a Lawyer all he needs to do that is a gun and 1 bullet
=
I used to have a signature but I got board
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I wonder why he's "wasting" his time fighting bullies like RIAA in court instead of doing something really useful by trying to solve humanity's biggest problems.
He's seems pretty smart. Perhaps he has identified the RIAA as the biggest threat to humanity?
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So you think freedom is not an important thing to defend?? Because that's what's at stake here.
Oh, and how exactly could he lawyer (you know, his major skill) AIDS away, and lawyer an end to all wars?
Re:Young lawyer != good lawyer (Score:5, Insightful)
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Indeed. Getting 'free' stuff from Kazaa and sharing it back was definitely not in her best interest in past.
I wonder if, once he heard details from her, he will too bail out. His free services look like visibility stunt where he expects to win based on RIAAs tendency to sue innocent people. Only thing he can chew on and pull a win is the fact that MediaSentry evidence is not valid for court.
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Only thing he can chew on and pull a win is the fact that MediaSentry evidence is not valid for court.
Maybe he has chosen this as the case that will make his name, and is planning to take it to the supremes [usatoday.com].
I'm just speculating wildly; surely it can't be that the RIAA just pisses him off?
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One of the more famous similarly fought cases was two individuals against the might of McDonald's (http://www.mcspotlight.org/case/) - this makes informative reading.
Not US law, I know, but 'the tricks of the trade' aren't that different from 'cunning' and some
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OT: Ugh, I read the story and got all excited, I read the leaflet and groaned. What an amateurish pile of crap. They obviously don't have any talented graphic artists at greenpeace. And they have it in seven languages, but none of them are US english, where we eat the most McD's. (They use plurals with singular company names, which might be correct in England, but which we sensibly avoid here in the states, and which will make the half-apt reader of US-EN think you're a retard. I can't possibly hand these o
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I grew up watching (and listening to) brits on PBS so I can not only usually understand British English but I don't even think that everyone with a British accent sounds like a ponce. I also know what a ponce is.
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Age and experience has it's place. Generally, I will opt for that experienced older guy. But, here we are dealing with technologies that a lot of older people didn't grow up with. We are dealing with cultural values that didn't exist when some of the older people were growing up. Assuming this young guy to be tech savvy, he may be the best thing to happen to Jammie. I wonder why, exactly, he is taking the case. Maybe he is about to start a crusade against the oppressive laws being brought into existen
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This should be very interesting.
K.A.D. Camara is not only a very bright young lawyer, he also has credentials in computer science and would probably be accepted by the Court as an expert witness on the technology (except for the conflict of roles). Not that he would do that. Just that he could do that.
There is no question that he is going to be more knowledgeable about the technology than any other lawyer or judge involved in the RIAA cases. If Camara wants to rapidly establish himself as THE expert on
Re:Young lawyer != good lawyer (Score:4, Interesting)
This should be very interesting. K.A.D. Camara is not only a very bright young lawyer, he also has credentials in computer science and would probably be accepted by the Court as an expert witness on the technology (except for the conflict of roles). Not that he would do that. Just that he could do that. There is no question that he is going to be more knowledgeable about the technology than any other lawyer or judge involved in the RIAA cases. If Camara wants to rapidly establish himself as THE expert on IT law, this pro bono work is an excellent start. The RIAA lawyers should be afraid. Very afraid. For whatever his reason might be, they are now facing a crusader who knows the landscape better than they do.
Also, unlike the first trial, this time he will have an expert witness, thanks to the grant Jammie received from the Free Software Foundation enabling her to hire an expert. See Expert Witness Report of Prof. Yongdae Kim [blogspot.com].
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That's why you need the Cirroc, the Unfrozen Caveman Laywer. He's old as dirt itself, and he's damn good. The one thing he does know is sharing music files is not a crime...
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But haven't we learned already that free isn't always a good thing?
Quite. They will be trying to collect for her on behalf of all the poor penniless lawyers. People need to learn that pro-bono work threatens their livelihood, the economy and the whole of world civilisation.
Re:Young lawyer != good lawyer (Score:5, Insightful)
However, I'm worried about the lack of preparation time that the new lawyer has. He has to familiarize himself with all of the previous casework, as well as come up with a defensible position. (All in his free time too...)
I guess we'll see how it turns out pretty quickly.
Re:Young lawyer != good lawyer (Score:5, Insightful)
I speculate that he already has a plan, and is familiar with the case. If you're paying attention to sci-tech or legal news you can't miss extensive, continuing coverage of the RIAA farce.
When an industry has to stoop to suing its customers, you know it's on the way out.
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while the lawyer may be pro-bono... doesn't she still have to meet other court costs for filings etc.? The RIAA can still exhaust their resources by flooding them with motions and other tomfoolery...
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gubmint, n. (Score:2)
What the hell is a gubmint?
A dialect pronunciation of "government", in the sense of an organization that makes and administers the law of the land.
That didn't take long (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds like he has a bone to pick. This guy's smack dab in the middle of the age range most concerned about and most knowledgeable about the issues at hand. He's obviously smart. The RIAA has been flailing left and right, so there's even hope.
Bias... (Score:2, Insightful)
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I hate the RIAA as much as anyone else on this forum,
I hadn't realised that the group think had become compulsory. Good job too. Now we can all post happy in the knowledge that no-one will question what we say. Bring on the hours of stimulating agreement.
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Not hours of agreement.
Here in Oceania, we've always been at war with East RIAA and we just need a Two Minutes Hate.
Pro bono doesn't mean out of charity (Score:5, Insightful)
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Pro Bono doesn't necessarily mean the lawyer is free. It might also mean that the lawyer will only get paid if he wins the case... often when
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And how many $10m settlements have you seen lately? Most contingency work do not end up with multi millor $$ settlements.
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If I were a young, smart, talented lawyer like him I would try and get some experience and boost my career with a hard high-profile case like this too
What makes you think this is a high-profile case in any circle besides slashdot?
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What makes you think this is a high-profile case in any circle besides slashdot?
This particular case received a great deal of national, mainstream media, press coverage. Reports were sent out daily by the Associated Press, and it was covered in all of the major news outlets.
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I stand corrected. That's surprising because it seems like most of the RIAA nonsense has flown under the radar of the major media outlets. Maybe something good will come out of this?
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Probono does mean he takes on the case, and gets the tax deductions from it. It also likly means he gets to collect the big money from turning around and suing them in a civil claim afterwords.
The press alone on this will likly mean millions of dollars more a year to his firm forever regardless if he wins or looses.
I know a lot of attorneys that started out doing pro-bono type stuff, that have directly translated in to millions over the years for them and their firm (most built their firms that way).
I know
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It's a copyright case. Supposedly, the winning party gets their lawyer costs; so if he wins, he can file for his fees.
But if it was pro bono, wouldn't that be $0?
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But if it was pro bono, wouldn't that be $0?
Not quite. The lawyer still incurs costs. His own staff has to be paid (by the lawyer, of course). There's a lot of paperwork = copying costs, filing costs, etc. And he's theoretically losing other business by doing this, so there's lost opportunity cost
Pro bono means $0 to his client. It doesn't mean he incurs no costs himself. And if he can work a way for somebody else to pay these costs, more power to him.
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No. If you represent a client pro bono, that means that client won't be paying your fees. If you qualify for the various exceptions to the US rule that parties bear the cost of litigation, you can still take advantage of fee-shifting rules.
From the lawyer's website: (Score:5, Informative)
"With Professor Charles Nesson of the Harvard Law School, we are defending Brittany English, a junior and cheerleader at Case Western Reserve University in a prosecution brought by the recording industry under the Copyright Act for allegedly illegal music downloading and sharing. Brittany is counter-suing the Recording Industry Association of America, its members, and the individuals who organized its litigation campaign.
Armed with the threat of $150,000 in statutory damages per illegal download (a $1.5M judgment in a small, 10-song case, where the actual damages are about $10, the price of 10 songs on iTunes), the recording industry has obtained more than $100M in settlements from individuals like Brittany. We are asking the courts to declare that statutory damages like these â" 150,000:1 â" are unconstitutional and that the RIAAâ(TM)s campaign to extract settlements from individuals by the threat of such unconstitutional damages is itself unlawful, enjoin the RIAAâ(TM)s unlawful campaign, and order the RIAA to return the $100M+ that it obtained as a result of its unlawful campaign."
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Pro Bono (Score:5, Funny)
I, too, am pro Bono.
But those glasses? Come on...
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Which Bono?
U2 Bono?
Or Sonny Bono?
Liberté,égalité (Score:3, Insightful)
Here in the UK the majority suddenly seem to have woken up to what their "elected representatives" have done in their name, and unexpected people we know are pretty cross about it. In the US, the RIAA affair is, quite literally, a slide into Fascism - a state in which corporations enjoy special privileges and are part of the Government. Here is a 25 year old lawyer actually saying this on his website, that the behaviour of the RIAA is unConstitutional. Either he's hoping to be bought off after the case (cynical) or he has ambitions for a career in politics (much less cynical).
A third possibility... (Score:2)
in addition to a) cynicism, and b) ambition, is c) a genuine dislike for the might-makes-right tactics of the RIAA, coupled with the ability (being a licensed attorney) to actually do something about it.
Unlikely as it may sound, there are quite a few lawyers out there who actually have principles and respect for the rule of law. It's entirely reasonable to think that they would dislike seeing the system gamed by the RIAA in this way. Time and events will be the ultimate proof, but don't discount the possibi
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Re:How about NOT stealing your music? (Score:4, Funny)
With a name like "Anonymous Coward", you look down on whiny snotnoses? Stop whining anonymously, you - you - you COWARD!!
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Jammie Thomas is a parent herself. Also, nobody has actually proven she has stolen anything. Innocent until proven guilty, you know?
I'm aware basic judicial procedures and fair trials have lost popularity in the US in recent years, but as long as the RIAA doesn't accuse her of terrorism (they just might), she deserves to be assumed innocent.
Re:How about NOT stealing your music? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because the parasite music companies engage in price fixing, payola and racketeering in order to steal our money. They profiteer off artists by the same corrupt methods. Because they lobby the government they get away with it. They steal from us as much as humanly possible. It's the kind of relationship THEY created. Now that they are getting the short end of the stick and the universe is balancing out they are crying like a bunch of little babies. Screw them let them starve if they all go out of business the world will be a better place.
Ask how much of the money the RIAA has won they shared with the artists.
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Well for starters, the jury MORE than suggested it. Even commenters on previous stories admitted that she more than likely did it, based on all the available information.
How much of the available information was gathered by MediaSentry, and therefore is supposedly not admissible?
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Nope. They were quite clear that she was making them available. Whether she downloaded them or ripped them from her own CDs didn't factor into their considerations.
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This is what makes the RIAA so outrageous.
They want to have a wet-dream of pay by the minute for you RENTING your own stuff, and transfer fees for putting it on your devices.
This is, by definition, rent seeking.
Hey, I just noticed something...The RIAA doesn't have much real competition does it?
What if the RIAA had to fight with a rival for its dough?
RIAA "Victim"? (Score:5, Funny)
How is this bitch a "victim"? She stole 10s of dollars worth of music from billionaires. Damn injun.