Russia's New Official Holiday — Programmer's Day 306
Glyn Moody writes "Russia's president, Dmitry Medvedev, has decreed a new holiday for his country: Programmer's Day. Appropriately enough, it will be celebrated on the 256th day of the year: September 13th (September 12th for a leap year). Do programmers deserve their own holiday ahead of other professions? Should the rest of the world follow suit?"
Yes. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
List of professions that I think are probably more deserving of their own holiday:
Of course, some of these are sorta already commemorated by labor day, and I would have also put farmers on the list if most weren't just corporate farms these days. I also thought about including inventors (it'd be nice for encouraging kids to be creative a
Re:Yes. (Score:4, Insightful)
Programmers are teachers, scientists, mathematicians and artists all in one. In that I've never met a programmer unwilling to share their insight and knowledge, hypothesize, construct a proof or make something cool appear on the screen.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, if you want to look at it like that, then almost anyone can be considered a teacher. Heck, I used to tutor other students after school at the library when I was in high school. Now, as part of my current web development job, it's my responsibility to teach our new high school intern the ins and outs of web development and graphic design. However, I don't think that puts me on the same level as a career teacher.
Don't get me wrong, as a programmer myself and one who's learned immensely from other progra
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Right. I think I've met more teachers who are better at teaching, than programmers who wish to teach.
I am a programmer, and I am usually quite reluctant to teaching people about e.g. programming, unless I'm paid for it. It is just too much work, much like the idea of helping out random people you barely know because "I know computers". Give me the money, and then we'll talk. And that, without any guarantees that I'm a good teacher, as, like MOST programmers out there, haven't been educated in pedagogy.
I mea
Re:Yes. (Score:5, Interesting)
A Russian grandpa is asked how often he drinks vodka. He replies "Not very often, only when it is a holiday or after a sauna. For example what holiday is it today?" It appeared that no one could recall any holiday today. The grandpa ponders "Hmm sounds like a good day to go to a sauna"
Russia already has most of these. (Score:4, Informative)
Why is the parent rated troll?
You're looking at this from the US perspective. In Russia, most of your list already exists:
Teachers Day: October 5
Medial Workers Day: Third Sunday of June
Social Workers Day: Second Sunday of June
Russian Science Day: February 8
Firemen's Day: April 30
In addition, Russia has commemorative days for public prosecutors, printed media, mass media, students, men, women, youth, mothers, tourists, elderly people, salesmen and service workers, police, geologists, cosmonauts, chemical industry workers, librarians, border guards, light industry workers, inventors, fishermen, postal workers, metallurgists, children's books, Slavic literature and culture, railroad workers, aviators, construction workers, miners, oil and gas workers, forestry workers, machinists and equipment workers, farmers, customs workers, automotive workers, security service workers, rescuers, power engineering specialists, and every concievable type of military workers.
Adding a Programmer's Day to this list is not particularly jarring or surprising.
-Graham
It is usually celebrated by... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:It is usually celebrated by... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It is usually celebrated by... (Score:4, Insightful)
Whoever modded parent "troll" is a jackass. Tetris really was a profoundly important game; given its popularity and the market it spawned, it's probably up there with, say, Visicalc and Mosaic on the list of (so to speak) game-changing software -- programs that weren't just commercially successful, but created a market for a whole new type of computing. Given that today's cell phone games -- many of which are very Tetris-like -- use more processing power than what was generally available on the desktop when Tetris was first introduced, dismissing its importance because it was "just a game" is a mistake.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, but it looks like they have a plenty of _real_ programmers. It's quite striking that MIT didn't win the ACM competition in at least 10 years:
# 2009 - Saint Petersburg University of Information Technologies, Mechanics and Optics, Russia
# 2008 - Saint Petersburg University of Information Technologies, Mechanics and Optics, Russia
# 2007 - University of Warsaw, Poland
# 2006 - Saratov State University, Russia
# 2005 - Shanghai Jiao Tong University, China
# 2004 - Saint Petersburg University of Information Te
Re:It is usually celebrated by... (Score:4, Insightful)
Ah Russia, Poland and China... where software is free.
Re:It is usually celebrated by... (Score:4, Insightful)
Nice correlation. Now about that causation...
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I went to the ACM finals in 2000 as a backup team member/assistant coach and, after talking to people from various teams, I think there are 2 important reasons for their success.
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In Soviet Russia, (Score:4, Funny)
Programming Celebrates You!
Humm .. (Score:5, Funny)
I would have had it on the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 8th, 16th, 32th, 64th, 128th and 256th day of the year, if I was to choose ;)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Good thing you skipped the 0th day. I'd be expect the conversations with the folks in HR would be less than productive.
Re:Humm .. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Humm .. (Score:4, Informative)
Good thing you skipped the 0th day.
2^0 = 1
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Good thing you skipped the 0th day.
2^0 = 1
Actually, programmers usually start counting from zero. So the 0th day would be January 1st.
Re:Humm .. (Score:5, Insightful)
Good thing you skipped the 0th day. I'd be expect the conversations with the folks in HR would be less than productive.
Is there ever any other kind of conversation with the folks in HR?
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I celebrate it on the 512th day too, but you other guys might have a hard time getting to Mars.
Re:Humm .. (Score:5, Funny)
32th?
Yes, Thirty-tooth.
Influenced by the dental profession.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
At 2:30?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
255 is the 256th value on the counter, thus that's why you chose the 256th day, no matter which exact date it is.
In honor of Programmer's Day (Score:4, Funny)
All programmers in Russia are permitted to work only a single 8 hour shift
today instead of the usual 16 hour shift !
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Amazing how defenses of Bolshevik economics get modded up in spite of how truly horrible it was to actually live in an economy like that. I would rather work in a country where you can actually earn something for a full days work than one where the government comes in and mandates that noone is allowed to work more than 8 hours. I work probably 9-10 hours a day, but at least I get something out of it. And I would not have in the old 'Workers Paradise'.
Re: (Score:2)
Or, you know, you could live in France, work seven hours a day, and actually have time to enjoy life. I don't want my tombstone to read "He died at his desk".
Re:In honor of Programmer's Day (Score:5, Insightful)
Communism is not perfect, and I like free market economy. But some things need to be said "NO" to.
You: "I want to work for 10 hours!"
Boss: "Oh, everyone! He can work for 10 hours, that means you can work for 10 hours!"
or:
Boss: "Look, that Other Company makes employees work 12 hours a day! That means we can do that too!"
Worker: "But, that's not fair..."
Boss: "Law doesn't agree!"
Some things need to be mandated through legislation. Is maximum work hours something to be mandated? I don't know, it depends on situation. If bosses don't abuse their power, then sure, sometimes I'd love to be able to work extended hours. But if you live in 19th century and you're a coal miner or a factory worker...
Would you allow child labor?
Re:In honor of Programmer's Day (Score:4, Insightful)
The worker doesnt have to go along with whatever the boss wants. It is a free country. If my boss said that he was going to pay me half of what I make now and ask me to work 16 hours a day I would quit. Sure bosses will try to get as much as they can, but that doesnt mean the workers have to go along with it. Other companies have to compete for workers. That is part of what makes the economy viable.
I am not a total free market ideologue, I do agree that some things need to be regulated. (particularly risk taking in the financial sector) But generally speaking I believe that workers and employers should be able to come to their own agreements with regards to compensation relative to amount of work done.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem is that there is a huge disparity in power between employers and employees. You, as an employee, are expendable in the vast majority of circumstances. Some person more desperate than you will take your job. All your boss loses is the time he's put into training you. You, on the other hand, lose your shirt.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I suppose that a lot of that has to do with what industry you work in, but in general I would disagree. For example programmers (I choose it because it is the original topic of this thread) :) are hugely expensive to replace. For some complex software products it can take years to get to know all the ins and outs.
What do you really lose by quitting your job? Assuming you can find a comparable new one I do not see any real loss.
I agree that the model breaks down somewhat in eras of extremely high unemplo
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Programmers in small companies, as well as architects and core team may be indispensable. Let's call them Developers; they are key to the product.
However, in large corporations (those who, from my observations, care about their employees much less) most programmers are much more easily replaceable, too. Let's call them Programmers.
Developers know the ins-and-outs of the product, they know exactly where to put the next piece of the puzzle. But sometimes (or often?) you deal with Programmers; they ma
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
If you're that easily replacible, then sure.
Yes, but it's not about the precious unique snowflake that (you may believe) you are, it's about most workers, most of which are indeed replaceable. You know, the larger picture.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It also benefits employment, which was the main argument for the 35 hour week in France (unfortunately it was very poorly implemented). In sectors where you need a certain number of man-hours to get something done (not programming, think, manufacturing), if you need 840 man-hours a week, and that you can make your workers work 40 hours, then you'll have 21 workers. But if you can only make your workers work 35 hours, you'll need to hire 3 more workers because you need 24 of them now.
This being said, that'
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Sorry if my post came across as a 'Youre a commie!' type of comment. :)
However, they were extremely stern taskmasters. What do you think happened to people who did not work, worked less, or decided they wanted to quite their job and do something different? I'll give you a hint: It was a hell of a lot worse than getting fired or making less money which is what happens when you skip work in the USA. When you completely remove incentives to excel the only way anything gets done is if you punish people who d
Re:In honor of Programmer's Day (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe you should learn some Soviet history?
Criminal punishments for skipped workdays were in effect from 1940 to 1946 - essentially during the WWII.
Later, there were punishments for 'social parasitism' if you were unemployed for more than 4 consecutive months (not counting vacations, medical leaves, full-time education, etc.). And the Soviet government guaranteed employment for everyone.
So stop telling fictional horror stories. There were enough real horror stories about the Soviet regime.
Re:In honor of Programmer's Day (Score:4, Insightful)
I think you have no idea how horrible things in Russia actually were before the Revolution. "Earn something for a full days work," bwahahaha. Yes, in retrospect Communism was a terrible mistake. But it didn't happen in a vacuum -- there was a reason people were willing to fight against the existing system.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
No doubt things were bad in Russia, but the Bolsheviks were not the ones with the solutions. There were lots of pro-democracy and moderate socialists who on the rise before the Bolsheviks seized power. Those were the ones who could have turned Russia's industrial revolution into a good thing, but Lenin (and later Stalin) basically had them killed and exiled. To say that the Bolsheviks were the champions of workers welfare is just crazy. :)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
"There were lots of pro-democracy and moderate socialists who on the rise before the Bolsheviks seized power."
Read about the February Revolution ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_Revolution [wikipedia.org] ).
In short, democrats and moderate socialists were given power when the Tsar had been deposed. But they squandered it. And were deposed in turn next year during the October Revolution.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It even gets worse. As they saw them losing the civil war, they fleed to another countries and left more or less scorched earth behind them - they were ok with Russian people starving as long as the reds don't get any working industry.
Re:In honor of Programmer's Day (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, it's not all black and white here. The idea was to eliminate worker extortion. A concept you might know from not being able to quit when the working condition / pay ration becomes unbearable.
Their attempt obviously failed. But the spirit was undoubtedly a good one. (As it usually is.)
Their main faults were to think that "everyone is equal", while some still were "more equal" than others. Thereby again creating the old hierarchy, or "boss paradise".
(Originally, those "more equal" were just there to manage the transition, and then dissolve. Which for reasons of basic human behavior never happened.)
We must accept, that humans first think of themselves. Even when we give, we do so, because it feels good to us, and because we follow our goals. If your goal is to make someone else big, and that makes you happy, you still do it for yourself. So this does not mean it is bad. And as for being egoistic, being the opposite of altruistic sacrifice, I can just quote someone I do not like very much, but who is right:
“It stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there’s someone collecting sacrificial offerings. Where there’s service, there's someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master.” — Ayn Rand
So my solution (yes, I thought about this quite a bit) is very simple: In such a new "company", everyone can work for multiple people and let multiple people work for him. So it's not a hierarchy anymore, but a free graph. Which means that not only a boss can prefer one of his employees, but an employee can prefer one of his bosses. Or in proper non-biased terms: A service provider and a money provider, or two service providers, (two money providers would be strange, but thinkable), have equal freedoms. If one of your "bosses" offers a crappy deal, you can say no, and take a better one. Just as he can take a better one than you. You don't have to have any long-term contracts (although you can). You can simply work on a project basis.
This would not have been possible, two decades ago. But with computers being ubiquitous, the whole contract-, "self-employment"- and tax management, can be automated. Even as a service.
I'd try that. Even if just to see the flaws, and fix them.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Have you ever wondered WHY Bolsheviks had won?
Workers in Tsarist Russia were forced to work 16-18 hours six of seven days a week to be able just to feed themselves. For them there were no paid vacations, no pensions, no healthcare, no nothing. Do you think that anybody in their right mind would agree to work additional 8 hours in a coal mine just for fun?
"I work probably 9-10 hours a day, but at least I get something out of it" - that's because workers' movements had won in the USA and other Western countri
Seems odd... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Seems odd... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Well, in Russia, police officers, medical workers, and every other profession actually have their own "days" as well.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
> Well, in Russia, police officers, medical workers, and every other profession actually have their own "days" as well.
^^^^^^
That, and also there seems to be a misunderstanding here, aka lost in translation. It's not a holiday in a sense that the whole country has a day off. It's just an official nifty name for this particular day. Also a good occasion to praise the work of your friendly programmer in the next cubicle.
Re: (Score:2)
Or goddamned secretary day, for that matter.
Oh wait...
Re: (Score:2)
Or goddamned secretary day, for that matter.
Oh wait...
So if the CEO walks in and announces a Programers Day, instead of flowers, you'd expect what?
Great job! Here's a USB stick. Everyone's signed the card!
Re: (Score:2)
do the important jobs even get a "day"? "programmer's day" sounds like "secretary's day" to me (I better get some nice flowers tomorrow)
Re: (Score:2)
Or... National Dairy Goat Awareness Week [latimes.com]
I'm glad we all have our priorities in or
At least... (Score:2, Insightful)
At least it doesn't interfere with Obama's Day of Service to our Government masters on September 11.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:At least... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:At least... (Score:5, Funny)
I really wish I could laugh at your ignorance. Patriot Day [wikipedia.org] started well before Obama came along.
YOU LIE!!!!
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I really wish I could laugh at your ignorance.
What the OP is talking about is Obama's Speech [youtube.com] at the Pentagon. Watch at about 4:00 minutes in, and listen to what the President is saying ... "On this first National Day of Service and Remembrance, we can summon once more that ordinary goodness of America to serve our communities ..."
Re:At least... (Score:4, Informative)
Armed, combat trained and battle tested right wing leaning organization = Patriotic citizens!!
Left leaning college students delivering food to seniors and reading to school kids = Paramilitary revolutionary force!!! OH NOEZ!
Re:At least... (Score:5, Interesting)
By calling it "national service" day, rather than "terrorists kicked our ass and now we have to act like idiots" day, we take the day back in some small way.
Re: (Score:2)
The English for starters. OK Guy Fawkes day isn't actually a holiday, but we do observe it. Although I suppose what we are celebrating is the fact that the attack failed.
Re:At least... (Score:4, Interesting)
I thought we were drumming up support for another try....
Wetware Not Software (Score:5, Insightful)
I think, in what is fast becoming a fascist state of one part gangsterism and one part corporatism, the programmers they're talking about aren't the programmers you're thinking about.
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Yes, these just don't have the following of talk like a pirate day or caps lock day. ;)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
As far as I know, they are the worldwide providers of cracks and rips for all our software and movie needs. Then the Chinese distribute it.
I, for one, am thankful for that service. ^^
Oh, and my sig unintentionally fits your subject nicely: (copied into the comment for long-term archiving)
-- ;)
Real hackers hack brains! Real tinkerers tune their body! Computers are for n00bs.
Probably not ahead of scientists/math./engineers (Score:4, Interesting)
Probably not ahead of scientists/mathematicians/enginneers. But still, pretty cool.
And can't but think it will be yet another forgotten day - secretary's day, siblings day, etc. All exist, all forgotten. Every day is proclaimed something and the novelty wore off or never caught on. Probably the only novel thing would be to have a "regular" day where nothing is officially remembered/celebrated/commerated/pissed_on/whatever.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Not to mention mattress sale^w^wpresidents day.
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It's probably because it's hard to know know how to celebrate it, and it's not quite as broadly applicable to the populace.
That's really what the International Talk Like A Pirate Day has going for it - everyone can participate, it's easy to celebrate!
(oh, and for the mute out there, I'm sure you can sign like a pirate, too. Just not in my general direction, ok?)
new battlefront (Score:2)
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I for one welcome our Ghost hacking overloads.
I'll take the money (Score:2)
answer (Score:3, Insightful)
No.
Should the rest of the world follow suit?
No.
Only REAL Programmers! (Score:3, Funny)
People who do web sites are not programmers, unless you write it in C,FORTRAN, or assembler!
Be a real programmer.
http://www.sorehands.com/humor/real1.htm [sorehands.com]
Frontpage? (Score:4, Funny)
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People who do web sites are not programmers, unless you write it in C,FORTRAN, or assembler!
Be a real programmer.
http://www.sorehands.com/humor/real1.htm [sorehands.com]
I've done website cgi-bin stuff in C, that makes me a real programmer not like those wanna be PERL coders.
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Real programmers do not program in FORTRAN.
Oldest Profession (Score:5, Funny)
Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but the "worlds oldest profession" probably needs its own holiday too.
It is a holiday that has been a long time in coming.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
I guess someone paid a lot to make it a long time coming.
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Absoutely! On the 69th day of the year! Or the 68th day and I'll owe you one.
But, then again, don't corporate programmers prostitute themselves already?
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>
But, then again, don't corporate programmers prostitute themselves already?
Corporate programmers are like the hooker with the heart of gold. We ENJOY it.
Re:Oldest Profession (Score:5, Funny)
Isn't that the 14th of February?
Programming IS The Oldest Profession (Score:5, Funny)
"God performed surgery when he removed Adam's rib, so my profession is indeed the oldest" said the doctor. "But before that God performed feats of engineering to create the Earth from void and chaos, so my profession must be the oldest" countered the engineer. The programmer looked at them contemptuously and replied: "gee, where do you think void and chaos came from?"
Heard that with lawyers (Score:3, Funny)
They seem to make even more sense as progenitors of chaos. :P
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Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but the "worlds oldest profession" probably needs its own holiday too.
It is a holiday that has been a long time in coming.
Bakers? Why not! Without bakers, we wouldn't have bread which led to beer!
Let's hear it for Mr. Flibble for sticking up for the bakers!!
I was referring to a profession involving a different kind of yeast.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but the "worlds oldest profession" probably needs its own holiday too.
It is a holiday that has been a long time in coming.
Bakers? Why not! Without bakers, we wouldn't have bread which led to beer!
Let's hear it for Mr. Flibble for sticking up for the bakers!!
I was referring to a profession involving a different kind of yeast.
Ohhhhhhhhhh, a vintner! Yes, wine makers do use a different kind of yeast.
Leap years (Score:2)
But if they want to take a date which number means everything, they could pick Feb 11th, with the advantage that dont change leap years (is not specific for programmers but a lot will get the reference).
Or go full binary with i.e. 10/01 (01/01 is already taken) or g
On programmer's day... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Which is cool, because on Project Managers Day, they scheduled you for 42!
Well at least (Score:2)
Yes, more holidays please (Score:3, Funny)
"Do programmers deserve their own holiday ahead of other professions? Should the rest of the world follow suit?"
Yes. Every conceivable profession should have its own holiday, on its own day, and each of these holidays should apply to all workers alike.
"Stevens! Where have you been? I'm still waiting on that documentation!"
"Oh? I'm just here to pick up my mail. Don't you know? Today is Auto Mechanics Day."
"I want that documentation by tomorrow!"
"Oh boy. I'm so sorry, but tomorrow is Plumber's Day!"
Yes. (Score:2)
Do programmers deserve their own holiday ahead of other professions?
Yes.
Should the rest of the world follow suit?
Hell Yes.
Damnit (Score:2)
If they where really thinking about programmers they would not compensate for leap years or day light savings time for that mater at least until version 3 of the holiday...
hold your horses (Score:5, Informative)
In Russia a "professional holiday" is NOT a real holiday and it is NOT a day off. It is a mere sign of appreciation for a certain professional activity. You might hear nice words about your buddies on TV and Radio and you have one more reason to have some drinks that day. Most of "important" professions in Russia have their professional days -- from teachers, doctors all way to police and steel-mill workers. It is no surprise whatsoever that IT workers (aka programmers) get their professional day too.
wow (Score:2)
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He picked a day that is tantalizingly close, but just out of reach. He is taunting us.
Medvedev to programmers: You will never get this! You will never get this!