Best Buy Abandoning "Optimization" Service? 156
ddillman writes "According to The Consumerist, Best Buy is apparently dropping some of its 'optimization' services, and will instead provide the 'Best Buy Software Installer,' a new tool that the company says will 'radically simplify how you set up and customize your new PC or upgrade an existing one.' Translation: instead of you paying Best Buy to delete trialware from your new PC, Best Buy will get paid by software makers to try to get you to install it. A page on the Best Buy web site states that the new installation tool will be available January 17th, and 'gives you choices and options to configure your computer, and saves you time by making it easy to discover new software, then download and install with a single click.' According to an alleged internal Best Buy document obtained by a technology blog, Best Buy stands to make an extra $5 per PC just by including BBSI."
Opportunity (Score:4, Interesting)
Great chance for noobs to try removing crap until something breaks, and then see if they got a usable "recovery disc" with their OS. That's how I got started with computers.
Re:Opportunity (Score:5, Insightful)
I hate to bring cars into this (obligatory car analogy?) but it's kind of like saying that it's an opportunity to become a mechanic if the new car you buy needs a lot of "under the hood" tweaking to get to run correctly. Obviously, you can always tweak anything you buy to make it better (aftermarket parts) but the thing should be street worthy straight out of the box.
Some people don't want to be mechanics, they just want the damn thing to work after you pay lots of money for it. If they wanted to put in the effort they would have bought a kit car (newegg or other such a la carte setup) and built it themselves.
I dare say that those who visit a store such as best buy to get a computer (laptops not included, can't do much about those proprietary pieces of *grumble*) generally need a lot of hand holding. You really can't expect the people who fall into that demographic to be the kinds who want to put in a ton of effort.
Buying from the likes of Best Buy (Score:2)
While it does not happen often, sometimes pre-built PCs actually have an attractive set of hardware. In that case, buying the thing and reinstalling the OS and the applications from scratch may be attractive. I remember a discount PC from the early 2000s that actually had components from reputable brands. A friend asked "can you recommend that?", I said yes and the PC actually worked fine for several years.
Of course, that requires a user that CAN do a reinstall if necessary. A DRM-free pirate version of you
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I couldn't agree more. I'd like to see a way of quantifying this type of pain and aggravation (dealing with pre-installed trialware/crapware) into the cost of a PC.
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That's like saying the only way to get a drivable car is to buy a Lexus.
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That's true. In fact, it brings up a point where computers and cars are very similar. That is, paying more does not necessarily shield you from bullshit. My parents' friends own a Mercedes, and they hate it. While their car gets great performance, the benefits of that are outweighed by the relative lack of reliability and the high costs of repair. The same applies to "performance" computers sold by major manufacturers. You're paying for a lot of shiny plastic, and the costs of repair are going to be h
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The last one I saw had trial versions of iWork and MS Office, and of course the nagging to upgrade to Quicktime Pro.
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I hate to bring cars into this (obligatory car analogy?) but it's kind of like saying that it's an opportunity to become a mechanic if the new car you buy needs a lot of "under the hood" tweaking to get to run correctly.
The problem with the car analogy is that, with computers, there isn't as great a divide between "using" and "maintaining". Though few people do as much as installing their own car stereos or even changing their own oil, most people install software on their computer at some point. The skills of installing or uninstalling applications and moving/copying files are central to maintaining a computer, but they're also part of a normal user's repertoire.
Though I fully understand that most people don't want to
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Your sentiment is correct on it's face... but fact is, nowadays, people (for the most part) do not pay "lots of money for" computers. They pay near nothing, and part of the costs are subsidized by the crapware that comes on the machines. After all, how much do you think it costs to make that $299 laptop at BestBuy (hardware and OS and such)?
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I certainly don't think it costs anywhere near $299. The chips are all standard models that have entered mass production. The operating system license is being subsidized by Microsoft. The real cost is assembly. Do you really think it costs that much to assemble a netbook?
No, the reason that BestBuy is interested in this is that it can't add as much markup to a $299 netbook as a $599 laptop. Therefore, any source of additional margin is a godsend for them.
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Sorry, I think my sarcasm meter was broken earlier. :)
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Every car I've ever bought new has needed an immediate ad-ware removal (bumper sticker & license plate frame).
Almost all of them, in my opinion, also needed an immediate brake pad replacement as well. Most people are satisfied with the crap that comes on there from the factory, though, even though they spend the first 20k miles scraping gunk off their wheels from the crappy pads, without even getting very good performance in exchange.
Many people buy a new car, and promptly shell out for "dealer options"
Re: New car ad-ware (Score:4, Interesting)
When I buy a new car, I add words to the contract that state: "Dealer shall affix no decals and will remove any dealer markings that are on the car. Dealer agrees to pay all costs of removal."
One car I bought had to go into the body shop so they could the holes created by the screw-on decal.
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I simply wouldn't buy such a car. Holes? Really? You know what's going to rust out first.
Anyway, every dealership around here puts the crap on when the cars arrive on the lot. And I don't trust anybody to do a damage free job of removing stuff.
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So you... don't ever buy cars?
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I've never come across a new car where the dealer ad was affixed using non-factory-drilled holes.
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Great chance for noobs to try removing crap until something breaks
Except the "noobs" don't want that. They want to play games, watch porn and get on with their lives.
Re:Opportunity (Score:5, Insightful)
Except the "noobs" don't want that. They want to play games, watch porn and get on with their lives.
Then wonder why their computer is getting slow, and eventually think "i should just buy a new one".
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Why should they have to learn when they can solve it with money? It keeps the economy going.
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Because thats a broken window fallacy, by investing in new computers they wouldn't need if their current system was properly maintained they're expending money on something that could otherwise be used for the purchase of something else they do not already have, or even invest it (even if its only to the tune of a small government bond or guaranteed interest certificate style investment).
This holds double for items that have a tendancy to either be primarily imported or made primarily with imported parts.
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I can.
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I still am amazed if that document is true about the $5 just to put it on people's PCs. This is marginally better than "Forced optimization" until people realize they're probably charging extra just to put this best buy installer on the pc.
I am not 100%, but I'll bet there's a charge for "setting up the best buy installer".
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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAA [breaths] AHAHAHAAHAA....
Ok, now that I've had my laugh, get the fuck off my lawn.
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Bitch please:
1) blogspot. oooh, your sources have me trembling.
2) spyware is not the only sort of malware.
3) this party most certainly did not get started in the early 2000's [wikipedia.org]
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Please, you are just making yourself look silly at this point.
Viruses are widely considered to be a subset of malware (malware literally meaning "malicious software"). From wikipedia:
You might have a different definition of malware, but that definition is pretty much your own. The definition to you seem to be presenting for "malware" seems more in line wit
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So basically, you crap up their machine with a bunch of shit they don't need and/or will have a hard time using since its not consistent with any other app they use.
Good job, you've recreated the same kind of crap setup you claim to be fixing.
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OT music question (Score:2)
Any chance you've been listening to The Magnetic Fields [houseoftomorrow.com] lately? Specifically, All My Little Words [69lovesongs.info], track 3 on volume 1 of "69 Love Songs".
Just curious. :)
Cheers,
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I'm not sure where the band is from, but one of the members might well be from somewhere southern.
Ah, local color. One of my favorite US town names was "Maggie's Nipples" (I think it was in Montana). The town was unfortunately renamed to something less notable some years after its founding.
But the colorful language goes beyond just English -- the Acadians have been similarly fond of no-nonsense-but-colorful nomenclature, calling one white bayou fish variety the sac-au-lait (bag o' milk).
I grew up with "
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I find it actually easier to build from scratch and install from scratch than to try and figure out what Dell components are standard or not, what leads the PSU has... and get rid of all the junkware. It's cheaper, too, strangely.
I've taught a couple of friends to assemble their PCs too. The key is Adamesque: Don't panic ! If you don't try fancy coolers or other things, you won't have to touch a jumper, just be careful to lay out everything, find where it fits without having to force it, and spend half an h
After being found out they drop it but now what wi (Score:2)
After being found out they drop it but now what will they do with systems? bill you $20 to put on windows updates? and they will still pre install them be for selling systems and only have systems with that added service in stock?
Re:After being found out they drop it but now what (Score:5, Informative)
The whole "pre-setup" thing was a crock from the get-go. It was SUPPOSEDLY so people who wanted the service could get a computer faster, but it just ended up being wasted labor. Myself and MANY other employees railed against this practice from the start, and of course management refused to listen.
What would happen is we would get the ads for the next week a few days early. Of the notebooks in the ad, a certain percentage of each we got in were to have the pre-installed garbage done to it. This started out fairly low, but soon we were being pushed to have 40% of each model done this way. And of course the people on the sales floor were told to push the HELL out of these systems. Why? Because technically, if the customer truly did not want the service, we were to restore it back to factory, or simply not charge them for it. Obviously this becomes a problem when a lot of customers don't want the service and they end up getting it for free. This is where they stopped having the in-store people do said service because it was wasted labor to do something for free, and also wasted labor to remove something the customer didn't want. The solution? A heavy internal push to have all of this done by the much-hated "Agent Jonny Utah".
Who is "Agent Jonny Utah", you might ask (other than a crappy Point Break reference)? It's nothing more than Geek Squad Outsourcing. They hook the computer up to the network, and use a customized version of LogMeIn to let someone in Bangalore or wherever do their job for them. Only half the time they don't do anywhere NEAR what a store employee would do. For example, when performing the service upon request, we would remove ALL trialware, make sure ALL updates were applied, and run a few scripts to generally make things a bit quicker and less resource-hungry. I could do about 5-8 computers at a time and have them all done inside of an hour. Agent Outsource? It would be up to 2 hours before they would even TOUCH the system, and then they would proceed to install the updates and give it a GWB-esque "Mission Complete." This meant we STILL had to do work to the computer when they were done, because they didn't really do anything to begin with.
AJU is also the reason you don't take your computer to the store to get it cleaned up. The VAST majority of the time, they will just hook it up remotely (unless it's so infected it can't get an IP, in which case they'll just want to do a restore) and let the remote guys take a whack at it. Surprise, surprise, more often than not they botch the job. And of course when it took 3x as long because of having to re-do the work, customers got upset and WE got the blame. We were NEVER to let the customer even THINK that the machine was worked on by someone other than the people they see behind the counter.
And this is why there is such a backlash anymore. Of the people who were there when I started in GS, only one is left. In my store (not sure about any others), we thought of ourselves as techs first and foremost. Those with that attitude were forced to change or leave, as they don't want techs. They want salesmen wearing a shirt and tie using the perception of knowledge to hock more crap. In the end, all we were there for was to sell services, but not perform them. Software? Have AJU do it. Hardware? Do they have a service plan? Ship it to Louisville. Only a manufacturer warranty? Give them the MFR number.
When I was new to GS, it was a culture of "help the customer, get them what they need, and build lasting relationships." When I left, it had become nothing but "milk as much money out of as many people as you possibly can."
On a final note, if you DO make the mistake of taking your PC to them for service, point blank ask them if THEY will be cleaning it, or if they're just going to hook it up to have some hackjob in Hyderabad run a few scripts and say it's done...
How did they do in store hardware upgrades? (Score:2)
How did they do in store hardware upgrades?
and they shipped out systems that you hard the parts in store to fix sounds like a waste on shipping costs.
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CompUSA used to do that ($20), but we'd actually optimize the various settings (all the tweaks that a power user would do to increase performance), remove the crapware, install all the updates, activate Windows (and Office or whatever else was bought/came with the machine), activate and update the AV/AS software, configure the network settings so the machine would go online right out of the box (keep in mind this was back in the day when Windows post-setup would pop up an idiotic list of choices on how to g
$5 per PC (Score:2)
Best Buy will make an extra $5 per PC? How many PCs do they sell in the course of a year? This would just barely cover the wages for one of their Geek Squad dorks.
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Well, a Dell $700 laptop is decidedly *NOT* a "good" laptop. Try a Macbook or Thinkpad T series... Of course, disposable laptops can make sense for certain use patterns, and they seem to fit yours. Nothing consumer line, especially a Dell IME, is "good". Build it yourself for a desktop, buy business model laptop or desktops or go disposable (buy one a year)...
Re:$5 per PC (Score:5, Informative)
The margins on PCs are ridiculously thin.
That's why manufacturers have resorted to bundling crapware, and now apparently retailers as well.
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Since all Vista/Win7 DVDs are the same now, I just download my MSDN image and use our keys to install.
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I'm pretty sure that's against the MSDN license... Hey, it's one of the pitfalls of software(and our legal environment), you've got to follow the license, however stupid it may be. You can only use retail disks with retail keys, VLK disks with VLK keys etc... Of course you *can* ignore the license, but at that point, I've got to wonder why not just go all the way illegal and pirate it to save the money?
Re:$5 per PC (Score:5, Interesting)
I was instructed time and time again to "walk" customers if they weren't getting additional accessories or services, and at least once a day i did. So even though we weren't "on commission", something we were told to tell every customer, that didnt matter because we treated everyone like we were.
i know these stories are told every time an article about Best Buy pops up, i just wish more people could hear them. It has never been about providing "exceptional products and services in a user friendly environment", it has ALWAYS been about the fact that BB loses money when they sell computers without attachments.
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When I'm in a big box store like Best Buy, I just politely tell the salesperson to take a walk. Of course, I rarely buy from such stores, tending to go through a few trusted online sources that treat me fairly, and keep the background sales buzz to a minimum.
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CompUSA was much the same... but more so with printers... if you sold a printer, it BETTER go out the door with a USB cable and a set of ink cartridges.
Now some people would say "Well, duh, they need a USB cable since they dont come with printers anymore" but the simple fact is most people dont come in to buy their first printer, so most already have a printer cable, and a large portion of those people have a USB cable (while the rest had parallel).
But again, same reasons... $0-$5 a printer doesnt make
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The real problem is that computers are a commodity item, and they're trying to sell commodities at retail with a luxury twist. A couple of grocers can get away with selling organically grown corn, but everywhere else, corn is corn, and comes in a cardboard or wood box on a shelf. You can try and sell butter and salt and
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Yes, I didnt state it very well. I was trying to say that if they stopped the price wars between each other, they wouldnt be in this boat. But each always has to be the cheapest - until there is little to no margin left.
Still not clearly stating what I mean... but I need more coffee, so that's the best I can do for now. ;-)
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you can assume you didnt read anything else i read, so just STFU.
Thanks for the warning (Score:5, Funny)
of the new Virus.
Interesting (Score:5, Insightful)
"preinstalled on most PCs, except Dell and HP"
Wonder if they are going to install it on Macs.
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Agreed (Score:3, Informative)
I did a reinstall on a friend's HP Vista laptop, and I was shocked and appalled by the amount of junk on there. The long interactive Flash video that plays when the computer is first booted would also be extremely misleading to a novice, as it appears to be offering software choices, but it's really just a bunch of advertising. This was far worse than any Dell or Sony I have worked on in the past.
The reinstall was needed after I attempted to work on her computer and noticed she didn't even have SP1 for Vi
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How much does an upgrade from Vista Home Premium to Windows 7 Ultimate cost?
suckers (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:suckers (Score:5, Interesting)
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And, I might add, in the case of a true emergency, you could return (unused) things to Walmart with a lot less difficulty, while buying more milk, eggs, etc.
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My son has that exact same one. Bought in August. It's in for a new HD right now.
The GeekSquad dude was surprisingly non-pushy about extra services and crap. When he asked about backups and reinstallation, "Nope, I just need a functioning hard drive". 'OK, come back Tuesday'.
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Best Buy has decent prices for the things consumers pay attention to, and indeed something like three years ago Best Buy stopped the insane upselling pressure they were putting their customers under, but buyer beware for the things that consumers don't initially pay attention to, or initially comparison shop on.
(Mon$ter Priced) cables, spare Lithium-Ion batteries, or returning/troubleshooting issues, those are where Best Buy will still try to screw you on. You don't have to take my word for it. Just dig up
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I bought my last laptop from Best Buy. It wasn't for me, it was for my wife. She's perfectly happy with all the crapware that's installed. I shudder at it. The computer I purchased for myself came from a military base and was too (probably) loaded with junk. I wouldn't know. I had wiped it before I even had a chance to read the Vista license agreement. Now that said system dual boots Windows 7 and Ubuntu. Not a single bit of crapware in sight on either one.
Oh, as for my wife's system, the only thing I did w
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Not a single bit of crapware in sight on either one.
Wait...you just finished saying Windows 7 was installed...
Ba dum tsh!
Thank you! I'll be here all night! Try the veal!
(P.S. I actually like Windows 7, but, the joke popped into my head, and I'm tired...)
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Best Buy Sucks (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Best Buy Sucks (Score:5, Funny)
I would bet its just another attem
Shit! The Geek Squad already got him!
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I suppose it depends, but on my IBM Aptiva I got in 1995, it did come loaded with the full version of Lotus SmartSuite which included 1-2-3... It also (for some reason) came with MS Works. It was good in that I don't actually recall getting trialware except for the ISP links, but actually full version software. Then again, I suppose at $3500, they could throw in some software.
Best Buy's stance (Score:5, Informative)
From that memo, it seems that Best Buy admits that there's not much of a speed boost in it, certainly not $40 worth, but they still justify it as a time-saving procedure. That is, if you're some CEO and have a shitload of money but little time, then you don't want to waste it uninstalling trials of NetZero and Microsoft Works (which we don't actually uninstall anymore, we just prevent it from starting up automatically, since some customers complained that their new computers came without the great software trials that HP/Sony/Toshiba advertised).
It didn't seem like they wanted to stop the service, although they DID remind everyone that optimizing more computers than are likely to be sold and then making customers pay for them even if they don't want it is illegal and a bait-and-switch. Which is great, because the managers here in a central North Carolina store were seriously considering optimizing 90% of stock and trying to get rich that way. Bastards.
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I'll believe you.
No kidding they dropped it (Score:4, Insightful)
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It was never bait and switch. Ever. Not even a little. Read your own link...
How do you figure? The practice, as I understand it, was:
1) Advertise a unit
2) Customize a (large) portion of those units
3) Sell both, until the uncustomized runs out
4) Refuse to sell the customized units at the advertised price, instead refusing the sale or referring them to another store
Bait - Advertised unit, advertised price
Switch - Customized unit, higher than advertised price
Incorrect summary (Score:4, Insightful)
The summary is incorrect. As we learned in the previous Slashdot story, Best Buy's "optimization" service DID NOT delete the trialware for you. They just hid the shortcuts so that the 30-day Norton would still nag you to buy it when the time was up.
If these changes from BB mean trial trash is actually NOT installed, but rather a Best Buy app that links to the trial download, then this is absolutely a step in the right direction - especially if you can get your hands on your parents computer to uninstall the BB app before they try any of the "helpful" suggestions. Bestbuy still gets their software industry kickback to subsidize the system's low price and mom and dad's new PCs don't run like shit.
Misunderstanding (Score:5, Interesting)
The truth is that the optimization service is a good one for many people. Best Buy creates the specifics of the optimization service based on feedback from their customers and from the Geek Squad Agents who work on their computers. You must realize that for the majority of the Geek Squad's customers, a computer (tower) is a "router," Toshiba is "Toshibia," Linksys is "Linksky," Windows 7 is "Windows Veesta 7," and that's only if they know the difference between Windows and MS Office (which MANY do not). We're not talking about people with even passing computer knowledge. For these people, not having an icon for Internet Explorer or My Computer on their desktop (as is the case in many freshly-purchased machines) is akin to having a car with no steering wheel or pedals. The optimization service is designed to maximize the usability of a new computer for those customers who need it.
The optimization service takes some time (30 minutes to an hour) to complete. To save customers some time, the Geek Squad will "pre-optimize" a small percentage of their computers. In doing this, they are not violating any laws provided they leave any minimum available quantity (if stated in the weekly ad) unopened. If you attempt to purchase a computer and all they have left are pre-optimized units, they are required to sell you the computer at the normal retail price. They can not force you to pay the optimization fee. They do have the option, however, to restore the computer to factory defaults before they allow you to leave with it, and they do not have to give you an open-box discount. If employees are breaking these rules (laws) it is because of the poor management I referred to earlier, but it is certainly not company policy.
The real villains here are Microsoft and the computer manufacturers for not providing a consistent and customer-friendly experience for new computer buyers. Some of it comes from simply economics and marketing: manufacturers can reduce selling cost by including loads of trial software, not including MS Office and antivirus software, etc. The savings are then (misleadingly) passed to the customer. (I am sure, though, that Best Buy's enormous purchasing power has some say in what the manufacturers do, though.)
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The real villains here are Microsoft and the computer manufacturers for not providing a consistent and customer-friendly experience for new computer buyers.
I believe they tried that once. It was called "Bob", and as I recall, it didn't go over so well.
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You must be an Agent or a former Agent.
As a former Agent myself, thank you for attempting to express that the individual employees aren't trying to scam anyone and that WHEN FOLLOWING COMPANY POLICY, management isn't either.
However, managers everywhere go and screw the pooch.
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You must be an Agent or a former Agent.
I had the same thought. I worked for them back before the GS Kool Aid got passed out, and guess what - things haven't changed a bit.
I know what you 'Agents' were told, and I know you're wired to believe it, but unfortunately it just isn't true.
Back to the OP:
The problem with the Geek Squad is that Best Buy managers are often so far removed from what the Geek Squad is and how it should work that it becomes a poorly managed mess in many stores. This is the crux of the issues many people have with the Geek Squad.
No, close, but no. The problem is that Best Buy corporate LIED to you about the mission. GS exists to expand Best Buy's bottom line, period. If they really were some altruistic, independent entity then the overlaps wouldn't exist. Agents wouldn't w
Delete trialware? (Score:4, Insightful)
.' Translation: instead of you paying Best Buy to delete trialware from your new PC,
I thought the Best Buy optimization thing only removed the shortcut icons to the trialware, and didn't actually uninstall or delete any of it?
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Microsoft Office home and student 2007 and standard 2003 seem very important to me, as does Nortan Ghost. Hopefully the program lets you select which programs you want to remove.
Then you'll be disappointed to note that those programs aren't actually 'included' with the PC. All of these you've noted are trials. Office limits you to opening the software a fixed number of times. Norton gives you a short window of protection. In all cases, if you find you like it, you are expected to pay full price.
Something we learned (Score:2)
When we purchased our 42inch LCD last year, we had already figured out which TV we wanted, and went to the local BestBuy store to get it. First thing we did when we were approached by one of their people...
"We're here for this TV, and only this TV. We're not interested in extended warranties, or home theater systems and overpriced cables, and we're not interested in someone coming to our house to set it up. We're both experienced IT individuals, we've already got great HDMI and optical cables from monopr
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This.
I have, on occasion, bought a computer this way as well. If you know what you want and actually shop the prices on it, eventually Best Buy will beat the online vendors.
Personally I prefer that 14-day window to swap it for a new one to dealing with shipping issues online. And I have in fact used it enough times to worry about it.
They musta stole it... (Score:2)
That's a description of Synaptic and apt-get.
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$1K for a PC? What decade are you from?
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The Canadian Best Buy website has at least 3 dozen PC + monitor bundles between $400 and $900, throw in another $50 for a printer.
I expect the US dollar would go even further.
The margins on this stuff are razor thin, or even a bunch of jerks like Best Buy wouldn't be resorting to bundling crapware for a measly $5/unit.
Re:No kidding (Score:4, Insightful)
How many people buy just the box when they get a computer?
People who are upgrading from an obsolete computer but already have a decent monitor and accessories? Good LCD monitors have been out long enough to outlive a PC's 18-month built-in obsolescence. My monitors turned 4 last month, no desire to replace them yet. And a 4-year-old printer will probably outlast a new disposable one...
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Not sure, as I don't iPhone at all. However, all of that crapware you see is there because back in the day, people were pissed that the new $2000+ computer they bought had no software, so they had to spend $1000 or more on that before they could do anything. Retailers like Best Buy made big deals with the PC makers and software companies to preload this junk so they could rightly advertise that the machine came ready to run with all of that software. Unfortunately, the software loaded was never top-shelf st