The Year of the E-Bicycle 494
theodp writes "Electric bicycles have been around for more than a century, but they have never quite captured the imagination of auto-obsessed Americans. That may be about to change. At CES this month, Sanyo showed off its sleek, lightweight Eneloop Hybrid Bicycle. Priced at $2,300, the e-bike sports a black lithium-ion battery strapped to the frame beneath the seat. Press a button on the left handlebar, and a 250-watt motor kicks in, providing about twice as much power as your own pedaling. Some basic e-bike models, like the Ezip Trailz can be had for as low as $500. Both Trek and Schwinn began selling e-bikes last year, and Best Buy is offering e-bikes in three test markets: Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Portland, OR."
Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem. (Score:5, Informative)
I love the idea of using one of these bikes for my daily commute to work and back, however they don't come anywhere close to solving the beer bottles from pickups aimed at cyclist problem, or the Houston has no safe way to ride a bike much of anywhere problem.
I love to ride my bike, but Houston is a city built by politicians with pockets lined from oil companies. The oil companies decided people in Houston should drive individual cars to get around and dammit, the politicians not only saw that it happened, they made sure the public transit system sucked as well. Sure there's a great bus to get downtown and back, but you still have to drive locally to the bus stop, even if it's only a mile or two away unless you want to become road pizza. Then it's only to downtown, not across town. You can go around your area, you can go downtown, but getting from one area of Houston to another isn't easy, and unlike Phoenix and certain other cities putting a bike on a bus is hit and miss. Some drivers forbid it if they don't have a bike rack and bike racks are rare.
Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem. (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, and people sticking their hands out the window trying to smack you on a high speed drive by, and attempting to side swipe you. This is worse in the FM 1960 area where I used to live as opposed to the Clear Lake area where I now live. The Clear Lake area has a bit higher class of people around.
Neither is bike friendly as both areas are built by the same Houston. I saw a guy in an electric wheelchair get stranded off of FM 270 about a year and half ago do to lack of good ways to get around, I was in the process of making my way over to help him out when someone beat me to it. There are NO sidewalks in most areas. Bike lanes are a rarity and qualify more as a vehicle sprawl lane for our many commercial vehicles, a good percentage of which are driven by unlicensed illegal immigrants.
Just try to use one of these to get around random parts of Houston - not isolated to JUST the Montrose, downtown, or historical/old areas. I hear people argue they have no problem getting around a few areas of Houston, especially the older areas, but not everyone lives in these areas nor are they the destinations for everyone.
Show me someone willing to commit to using one of these to commute Houston without limiting their travel horizons for a year and I'll show you someone who wont be alive in a year to claim their prize.
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Thanks -- you've reminded me of why I don't leave Austin unless the destination is out-of-state.
Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem. (Score:5, Informative)
Having been to Houston as a tourist, I find parents' notes to be absolutely true.
Not only do motorists freak out if there's somebody on a bicycle on their streets (and unless it's a highway/etc., that should be perfectly legal - share the road, dammit) and use any existing bicycle lanes as just more room for them to zigzag all over the place... ...there's almost no sidewalks! Okay, that's not true, there's plenty. But a lot of them just suddenly end with nowhere in particular to go next.
I couldn't legally walk from my hotel to The Galleria (just 1.6 miles) because the sidewalk just -ends- after the last commercial store (a garden center)'s plot it straddles. The -only- way to walk there via the 1.6 mile route was by crossing freeways, walking through an interstate (I-10) underpass, crossing a road on a bend (speeding car surprise special *every time*) then walking through a bunch of muddy (sprinkler over-use) grass (by a rug store), before finally there were businesses again and - surprise, surprise - sidewalks.
If I were to maximize actual sidewalk usage instead - ignoring the spots where there's no sidewalk - it's a 4.3 mile route. wtf.
( virtual cookies for whoever can identify the spot on google maps )
People thought I was nuts for even attempting to walk there... suggesting that I should go rent a car. "For 1.7 miles? really? holy crap.", I thought. Then I started looking more closely as I was driven around by friends and it became clear to me as well that Houston was practically built around the idea that everybody and-I-do-mean-EVERYBODY has a car. It's evident from the clear lack of respect for cyclists and pedestrians - both by the majority of the people and by the city itself, courtesy of its lack of proper infrastructure for these groups. I mentioned that there are plenty of sidewalks... well, of sorts anyway; they were all concrete abominations that were crooked, cracked, and grown through by weeds.. so those who do like to walk are probably discouraged from that as well as you're likely to eventually trip and faceplant.
For me, within a city, it is absolutely insane that it would be an easier and shorter trip for a motorist than for a pedestrian.
Now, Seattle on the other hand.. completely different story - and with the odd hill here and there, and longer treks to get around the sound/bay, I suspect the e-bike could come in quite handy and not be a death-magnet.
Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem. (Score:4, Insightful)
Here's a suggestion - be a redneck. Carry a gun and use it often. If people are trying to get you killed, you can do the same to them.
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given that its texas we are talking about, that actually makes a scary bit of sense...
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I used to walk to work - wasn't that far. A mile or so...
Two things stand out:
a) every few days, someone would stop and ask if I was ok and whether I needed a lift.
On one hand, it was great to see so many caring people. But it just shows that they never
saw people walk before.
b) the path actually went up to people's front doors, so I had to either walk on the road, or follow the path into people's
property. Weird. Again - not built for pede
Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem. (Score:5, Interesting)
As an avid cycle commuter I spent 3 years in the 90's in Houston: after experiencing that cycling was impractcal, inconvenient and not entirely safe in the 290/1960 area and then around the Galleria, I did commute to downtown from the Montrose area; and, as posted above, if one stay inside the loop, biking is not so bad, but outside is totally a nightmare.
Note: After Houston I lived in Portland Oregon and now Munich Germany, both of which are a totally different world where cycling is a normal, expected, desirable, supported and respected form of transportation.
As noted by others, the problems in Houston are multifold: designed only for cars, citizens do not expect to see bicycles (= lack of safety), cycling is not respected or desired, etc.) --- the most difficult aspect to comprehend is how socially undesireable it is to be a cyclist in Houston (or most of Texas for that matter): everyone assumes that anyone on a bicycle is either too poor to own a car or pay for gas or has had his driver's license revoked for DWI. When I used to commute the 4 miles to downtown my colleagues would continuously offer me a ride home, ask compassionately what finincial problems i had and if they could help (i couldn't possibly be choosing to cycle so it must be because i had no money!), offer to loan me money, etc. Even after I explained that my car was all good and well but sitting at home in the garage, they simply didn't believe me! THAT is an anti-cycling environment!
P.S. although I love the percetant of bicycle usage in the Netherlands, I do not believe its bike system should be taken as the model, as its system is based on "separate but equal" facilities for bikes, autos and pedestrians (i.e. lots of bike lanes but bikes are generally forbidden to ride on the roads if bike paths are available). Germany follows a similar system in theory where cyclists are often grouped with pedestrians (leads to higher rate of minor accidents), but in practice is somewhat less restrictive as fewer bike paths are available. (It has been shown numerous times in studies that the safest system in urban areas involes biking not on completely separate facilities (i.e. bike paths) nor along with pedestrians (i.e. sidewalks), but along side cars on the roads (either with or without bike lanes), with large numbers of cyclists on the road such that car drivers both expect and respect cyclists on the road).
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Not sure about The Netherlands, but here in Belgium you're quite welcome to use your bicycle on the main road when there is no separate bike path available.
When there is one, yes you HAVE to use it, but when there isn't you shouldn't be using the pedestrians' side-walks but simply drive on the right side of the road.
I'm pretty sure it's like that in the Netherlands too...
Everyone here is used to it, that much that I'm having a hard time to imagine roads without cyclists. In fact the law even grants quite a
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When there is one, yes you HAVE to use it, but when there isn't you shouldn't be using the pedestrians' side-walks but simply drive on the right side of the road
It's attitudes like that that prevent people from commuting via bicycle. Let me translate that for you into what people who live in an auto-dominant urban area hear:
When there is one, yes you HAVE to use it, but when there isn't you should trade a small chance of not-likely-to-be fatal physical harm to yourself and other pedestrians to a much, much greater chance of quite-likely-to-be-fatal harm to yourself only.
Or to sum up: biking is a recreational activity, not a transportation option, and it will continue to be for as long as people half-ass the bike lanes and think that the roads are a good fall-back option.
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For those of you that wonder what 'FM 1960' means, Texas has the concept of Farm to Market roads [wikipedia.org], not strange radio station names.
I used to live in Salt Lake City, supposedly a (Score:4, Interesting)
mountain biking mecca. And I had much the same experience cycling in the city. There are few bike lanes, but the roads are pretty wide. You wouldn't think there would be a problem. But the motorists often got angry at bicycles simply because they were there. I OFTEN got honked at by passing cars (they'd wait until they were right on your tail or next to you, then HOOOOONK while they yelled out the window) and I got a decent number of things thrown at me.
Worst was a 7-11 double gulp cup that was full. It hit me on the side of the head, the lid came off, I got drenched in Coke and then the edge of the cup got stuck between my crank and my chain causing me to wipe out. I was sticky, covered in soda, and had to walk my bike home and use tools to get the thing out and the bike cranking again.
This was in the '90s before the "national concsiousness of greenness and cycling" hit. Hopefully things are different now.
These days I live in NYC and would cycle everywhere (there are a lot of cyclists and motorists are aware of them) only my wife forbids it, being absolutely terrified that I will succumb to NYC traffic. :-P
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Do you really have problems with people throwing beer bottles at you?
I have in upstate NY.
Frankly, most serious bicyclists have a bunch of stories like that. I've put many miles in the north-east, the mid-atlantic states, the west coast, the southwest, and now the midwest. I now ride in the country in Indiana (boring corn viewing experience), and it's a lot better from a politeness of drivers standpoint.
But in the USA, the car vs. driver issues are way worse than the UK and Ireland in my experience. Just another issue where we think we are #1 and really we suck.
Sheldon
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When I was 10-12 I liked riding my bike to and from two local towns. (No clue how I talked my parents into it.) One was 5 miles away and the other was 8. I went to a day camp in one and 4th grade in the other. Now I didn't ride every day, but maybe once a week and only when it was warm.
Riding home from day camp one day I passed a pickup full of redneck jackasses. 2 up front and 2 in the back. I caught an apple square across the thy, left a bruise that took a few weeks to go away.
Never told my parents, but t
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Europe seems to be leading the way in bike paths. There's no less than a dozen cities that have dedicated bike paths going all around them. I don't know any of their names, but Europe keeps coming up in documentaries and articles about green city designs.
A quick trip to google for some proof... http://www.wired.com/autopia/2007/11/where-are-the-m/ [wired.com]
Documentary example: http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/Shows/The_Nature_of_Things/ID=1233750794 [www.cbc.ca] (may only work in Canada)
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For that Wired Article, I nominate Houston for the counter point of that article. Probably not #1, but it should be on that list.
Most of the cities I have in mind for being worse than Houston are affected more by bullets that civil design.
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Leiden in Netherlands is a great example - even truck drivers on "right of way" roads will sometime yield to bicycles. As a side note, most of the kids come to school on bycicles (in a neighbouring village, 1 mile away though - I don't know about the city center).
This is the level of "friendliness to bycicles" that is necessary for everyone to start thinking about using a bike - when you let your kid go to school on a bike.
Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem. (Score:4, Insightful)
Woe betide a pedestrian who gets in the way of a cyclist though! For some reason respect stops at two wheels.
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Haven't ridden there in rush hour, so usually there weren't more than a couple other bikes in view. However, I remember ladies riding the bike and protecting themselves from rain with an (opened) umbrella (Netherland is windy, and the wind is not usually steady).
I shudder thinking about biking with an open umbrella, but that seemed so normal to that lady...
Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem. (Score:4, Informative)
It's perfectly normal - albeit dangerous (one gust of wind and wheeeeee off-course smack-dab into a car).
Then again.. it's NL (and BE).. where we like to take little babies onto the front/rear of our bikes.. without helmets :D
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm173/nannet1973/?action=view¤t=Zeelandjuni200876.jpg [photobucket.com]
http://www.gerloeffen.nl/data/1788/70286-x.jpg [gerloeffen.nl]
Note narrow road.. without any bicycle lane... o0o0o danger! Not really.. it's so common in NL that motorists do tend to actually look out for cyclists and drive responsibly around them.
Indeed, as GP notes.. it's often the cyclists in cities that tend to be more dangerous for cars, than the cars are for the cyclists.
Running red lights is pretty much the norm, one-way roads tend to be one-way for motorists only as well so don't be surprised if a cyclist comes head-on at you, signaling (by extending your arm) is something that went out of fashion in the late 80's - so be prepared to be cut off by a cyclist, etc.
The only people worse are the pedestrians.. who will cross wherever and whenever they damn well please.. even if there's a pedestrian crossing, with or without traffic lights, only 10 yards over :)
( Pedestrians are almost 'untouchable' by law in NL.. if a motorist hits a pedestrian, the motorist is gonna have to have some damn good evidence that there's nothing (s)he could've done to avoid the accident not to be the one 'in the wrong'. )
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You forgot washing machines, 2.10x1.20 slabs of 18mm multiplex (wood) and 2x4's. I transported all on a trailer behind my bike, the latter in sufficient quantity to build all my furniture.
Now I live in Sweden where cycling is no nearly as popular as in the Netherlands. Some people look at me like I just climbed out of a flying saucer. They do sell studded tires for bikes here so I can not be the only one cycling in winter...
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The cyclists in Leidem are maniacs. They don't pay attention to other traffic, violate all traffic rules and sometimes seem suicidal in the way they behave in traffic. That's why truckdrivers sometimes stop for bycicles. They want to keep their truck clean.
I know this to be true because I'm one of the cyclists there.
So you can replace the vehicle, but not the drivers? ;)
Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem. (Score:5, Funny)
Most of us road our bikes to school by 4th grade here in San Diego.
And some need to ride right back to school. :)
in new york city (Score:3, Interesting)
i've seen bike messengers pedal up fast to delivery trucks
then HANG ON. we're talking 30-40 mph, dense city traffic
can't imagine what the hell they are thinking. i mean if that truck driver hits the brakes fast...
then again i used to room with a bike messenger when i lived in brooklyn, and every other week he would bring home some new constellation of bruises (car doors, etc)
however, i think toronto bike messengers beat new york city bike messengers in the abuse department: one guy held onto a car which swi
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I am in Cambridge at the moment and it is great for bikes. I think it may have the largest bike density in Britain. A combination of a University in the town centre and it being pretty flat are probably the main factors. There are lots of good cycle lanes, many one way roads have a cycle lane in the opposite direction so the one way system hardly affects cyclists. Around the town centre bike is the fastest way to get around, you get more possible routes, and at traffic lights you can just cycle straight
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Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem. (Score:4, Interesting)
Phoenix was a dream to me, I lived there for a year and half and it was growing, so it might suck now. Back in 96 and 97 I rode all over the place on my bike, I took off from my apartment at 27th ave and Camelback, rode around American West Arena, the big downtown library, went to 27th street and Camelback to hang out at my favorite coffee shop, then rode home all the way down Camelback, I estimated that trip to be over 30 miles by looking at a map site years ago, I'm sure I could a more accurate guess by using Google maps now, but it was a dream. I rode on sidewalks I could drive a car down nearly the whole way.
I don't want to hear that lycra shirt wearing cyclist douche talk about sidewalks being a dangerous place for bikes. I was a BMXer, completely different from your useless breaks Trek bike. In Arizona it's perfectly legal to ride on the sidewalk and they went over this with me when I was in defensive driving (yes, speeding in my truck). If you're on the sidewalk you follow pedestrian laws, if you're on the street you follow motor vehicle laws. I did a lot of curb hopping to hit the greens. :-)
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"Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem."
So, you vote in people that will make Houston friendly for bicycles. Or you relocate to somewhere that is friendly for bicycles. Or you stay resigned to using a car for every trip, eating up more and more of your salary as gasoline and other expenses increase over time.
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[agh, accidental click on the post button, and no edit]
BTW, one-two miles to the bus station. About 2 kilometers or so? That you can walk in 20 minutes? No need for a bike, just use your legs. I walk longer than that to the local train stop every morning and night.
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Walking does not fix the beer bottles aimed at pedestrians problem, nor the no sidewalks problem with fences that go right up to the curb on incredibly busy streets problem.
I'm not saying there's no way to walk from point A to point B, but if you're talking in Kilometers you're probably thinking European, which is a lot different than thinking urban sprawl in a city designed by drunk monkeys.
In the Houston area if your starting point is 1 mile from your ending point by car there's a good chance to get there
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wow, I should have double checked my spell checkers suggestion: that was prosperousness not obstreperousness. I had to look up obstreperousness to figure out what that even meant.
Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem. (Score:4, Funny)
And even if you do survive the trip, there's no where safe to lock it up ... I'm waiting for the workable wheeled vehicle that I can fit in a backpack.
Try a razor-style scooter! It's so fast and efficient! Once you start scoo-muting you'll never turn back. I take mine into my office, restaurants, cinemas, on dates... all the while looking resplendent in my bright-green bike gloves. It's the way of the high-density urban future!
(posted anonymously to preserve the last remaining tatters of my dignity)
Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem. (Score:4, Informative)
Try Houston - a low-density urban sprawl city.
We have a huge city, with a few acres of land here and there with cattle roaming all over the place. Your Razor scooter wouldn't have enough power to get me past one of these mini-ranches, not to mention the fact there's no safe place to ride it. If I can't ride a bike safely just a couple of miles anywhere I need to go I certainly can't ride one of those.
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Do you really have problems with people throwing beer bottles at you?
Does this comment answer your question?
Here in Austin the frapping bikers are everywhere. It would be so much nicer if they'd stick to areas with bike lanes, parks, etc, rather than making their political point and stressing everybody out trying not to kill them. Get off the road!
Drivers are very impatient when it comes to cyclists and don't care if there are no available bike lanes which push cyclists onto the roads with faster traffic. In my experience, most drivers are very impatient and don't even want to wait on cyclists when it won't effect their arrival time. I've seen it get downright nasty even here in San Francisco (to the point of violence in some cases). The truth is that bikes are only practical in certain places, usually very
Re:Sounds like a nice place to live (Score:5, Insightful)
Because of the anger among the cyclists, Critical Mass was started which generally only pisses off the drivers but also is a lot of fun.
And you wonder why so many drivers get pissed off to the point of violence? Golly gee, I can't imagine how that could happen.
Re:Sounds like a nice place to live (Score:4, Insightful)
The Critical Mass events are held once a month, in a Saturday. A once-a-month event will piss you to the point of violence?
Re:Sounds like a nice place to live (Score:4, Insightful)
(Not to violence, of course; just to outrage and contempt.)
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A good philosophy -- but I'd urge you not to compromise your own safety simply for others' convenience.
One of the things they teach in the TS101 class from the League of American Bicyclists [bikeleague.org] is that getting on and off the sidewalk is considerably more dangerous than staying in the road -- and that while using an improved shoulder is legal (and often the safe thing to do, if it's clean and in good condition), getting too far over to the right within a lane can encourage cars to pass you when it's unsafe to do
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For the record - I do not ride in a manner that obstructs motor traffic in any way. When beer bottles have been thrown at me in the past I was either on the shoulder of a large road that had one or riding through the grass off the side of the road. I do not ride my bike smack in the center of a lane when it's a major through fare. As a courtesy to motorist and the protection of my own hide I try to keep my much slower than them ass out of the way. I've never been hit by a beer bottle or soda cup, or any
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When passing a cyclist, the motorist may need to slow for a minute or so, but then is able to catch up the the next car in traffic anyway. If that person was not on a bike, they would be in a car, and would be contributing to congestion -and congestion does slow overall travel time.
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There have been attempts [bikeportland.org] to move into that direction.
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This is just like the people around Phoenix who want to fence off mountain areas for the 'enjoyment of the people'. Instead of allow wealthy people to build, and charging them up the wazoo for property tax
Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem. (Score:5, Informative)
"When bikers pay into the highway system, then they can have bike lanes."
Motorists in the UK try to use this argument too, but motoring-related taxes (in the UK) do not cover the direct costs of providing the road network IIRC. So the cyclists paying their general taxes are *already* paying, and given that wear that drives road-maintenance costs is something like the fourth power of the axle weight, the cyclists' contribution need only be tiny to be proportionate. Cyclists may already be *overpaying*...
I believe that in the UK almost the only transport form that fully recovers costs year-on-year is the train system, which people then whinge about the expense of.
Many motorists continue to behave as if the full cost of a journey is the marginal pump cost of the fuel, ignoring externalities from pollution to tarmac to road-deaths.
Rgds
Damon
Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem. (Score:5, Insightful)
Because you've seen some people on bikes violating traffic rules, it's ok to attempt to murder any cyclist you see? Because that's what you're doing when you throw something at an unprotected cyclist in traffic, in case you're unaware.
Two arguments were raised:
That cyclists should pay to accont for increased road maintenance is an interesting argument. Let's see some hard numbers. What is the marginal increase in road maintenance costs due to cyclists. What are the budget allocations that pay for that maintenance, and how do they align with various taxes - many of which cyclists do in fact pay. Show me the numbers, and if they show that cyclists are underpaying I'll buy that something needs to be done to tax cyclists. Oh, but if they show that cyclists are overpaying (which I bet they will), I don't suppose you'll support giving them a credit, will you?
The second argument had to do with some recent state law that protects pedestrians, cyclists, etc. His argument is that this unbalances the risks and burdens and cycilsts should pay more for the greater protection. First of all, this clearly comes from someone who has never been vulnerable on the road. A car that decides to ram a bicycle stands to lose nothing unless caught by law enforcement; the cyclist stands to lose his life. The law works toward establishing balance; it is not something from which balance needs to be restored. Second: why single out cyclists? Register every pair of walking shoes.
Make all the excuses you want; laws like this are aimed at nothing other than trying to keep people from exercising rights you find inconvenient.
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Sorry, but roads are not paid for by motorists, they are paid for by citizens (gas tax is insufficient, roads are heavily paid for by other taxes). Cyclists, and any citizen has the same right to the roads you do. Operating large equipment doesn't give you more rights.
Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem. (Score:5, Informative)
What you're describing is very common. However, what irritates me is the undeserved sense of entitlement evidenced by such bechavior, more so than the actual breaking of the law.
Some years ago, a nurse who was tending to my mother in the hospital was making conversation during some lengthy time he was forced to spend in her room due to her condition. The conversation ranged broadly and it eventually came out that he was a weekend cyclist (one of those funny-tight-pants guys) and he regaled us with his account of a recent run-in with the law. It seems that the rural folks where his (apparently rather large) group rides had complained to local law enforcement about the bikers who were running lights, failing to yield, taking up too much road space by riding abreast, etc. The local lawdogs set at a stop sign on their customary route. As was their habit, the entire group simply blew through the sign without stopping. The cops pulled over about 30 of them and wrote tickets.
Come court day, the entire group showed up to fight the tickets. There were a couple of lawyers amongst them. They simply stood up in court and started talking about how they'd fight using some sort of (spurious, it seemed to me) argument that if each rider stopped at the sign, the group would get so strung out that various hazards would be created for both the group and other traffic. In a bit of a mob scene in the tiny traffic court of this tiny, rural courthouse, they vowed to gum up the works with enough paperwork and motions so as to keep the entire city legal staff occupied doing nothing else for as long as possible.
It was a sort of "We're a big enough mob that we can get away with breaking the law" confrontation. The judge grabbed onto a technicality in the first case and simply dismissed them all.
I said all that to say this - If I were part of a mob that managed to break the law and get away with it simply because the mob was big enough to overwhelm the resources of a small town, I'd be pretty embarrassed at getting away with such a thing. This guy wasn't. He was actually *proud* that he was able to get away with breaking the law. He felt that he was such a righteous person for riding a bike that he deserved to be allowed to run stop signs. Now, why on earth does riding a bike make someone a better person? Where do bicyclists get this attitude? I don't get it. I just don't get it. But I do know that I have a very low opinion of bicyclists because of this incident and so many others I've experienced on the road where cyclists seem to have an attitude of "The rules don't apply to us."
Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem. (Score:5, Insightful)
Your second hand story about proud, self-important cyclists flouting the law and believing they "own the road" is the same experience cyclists, including myself, see regularly from motorists! Perhaps there are just idiots out there, some ride bikes some drive cars. The ones who drive cars, however, kill people (including other motorists).
If you want to talk about misapplied justice, there are countless cases of motorists killing cyclists, pedestrians, and other motorists by gross negligence and careless driving. Many of these people never see the inside of a jail cell and most will drive again.
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An increasingly risky sport, as helmet-mounted cameras become more popular.
Why not just buy a motorcycle? (Score:5, Interesting)
The price point for these seems way off.
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Re:Why not just buy a motorcycle? (Score:5, Interesting)
For one thing -- exercise!
I own a 2009 Optibike 850 -- an expensive toy, sure, but my pride and joy. It gets me to work and back in less time than driving followed by a gym session would require (and much less time than taking an unassisted bike both ways, which I've started doing on occasion as well), while being great exercise -- the way the Opti is geared encourages the rider to pedal along with a cadence in the 85-90 area, and my cholesterol and waistline are both way down since I dropped the car from commute duty.
I also like being able to take my ride inside the office with me rather than needing to fight for parking. (Motorcycle parking is close to the building too, so not a big deal when I ride my scooter... but getting a chance to work out on my way to and from work makes all the difference in the world in terms of stress, and having the workout be part of my commute means I stay with it).
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a) They're relatively new and not a mass market product yet. Prices will come down. They're basically normal bicycles with a hub motor and a battery. You can DIY if you want: Kits are available on eBay.
b) Electric bicycles are almost silent.
c) No license requirement (don't know if this is the case in the USA, but in Germany they're in the same group as bicycles if they only apply engine power when the cyclist pedals.)
d) Motorcycles need gas, e-bicycles need electricity. You can make your own electricity, bu
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There are places where you can drive a low power scooter without a license, but you still have to register it and pay taxes for it.
However, bikes are not registered nor taxed.
Re:Why not just buy a motorcycle? (Score:5, Funny)
So using something that will get you into shape is gay. Interesting.
No wonder my ass is always so sore after my workouts. I thought it was because the seat isn't all that comfortable, but it turns out that apparently I'm actually taking a cock up my ass for hours on end.
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Compared to sitting on a scooter/motorcycle, you'll get exercise on an electrical bicycle. Especially as they mostly come with electrical assist and don't just run on their own.
That was my point. Even if it only means you'll get 25% of the workout you'll get on a regular bike, that's still a lot more calories burned than you'll get by just sitting on the scooter.
And I don't know it's "meant for the elderly". Would I want the bike from Sanyo? No, I wouldn't - it doesn't fit my needs. Would I like electrical
best quote (Score:5, Interesting)
In China, riding an electric bike conveys professional achievement, even a certain degree of wealth. People in the United States, said Ed Benjamin, an independent consultant in the bike business, don't quite know whether these bikes are fashionable. The e-bike is "an ambiguous statement," Mr. Benjamin said.
I'm not entirely sure what the cultural significance of that is, but it must mean something.
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Personally the whole concept of the "Male" and "Female" designs boggle my mind, why is it that one with the balls gets the one with the bar? (I understand the whole dress thing on the female bike design, which is where I'm lead to believe it came from..)
Re:best quote (Score:4, Interesting)
It's a local cultural thing. We had that distinction in Sweden too, while here in Japan everyone uses step-through or halfway-bar type bikes (like mountain bikes) for normal everyday use. High-bar bicycles are only for racing bikes used by people dressed in bright nylon tights and oddly-colored sunglasses.
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people dressed in bright nylon tights and oddly-colored sunglasses.
*shudder*, that should be banned!
Re:best quote (Score:4, Funny)
>> people dressed in bright nylon tights and oddly-colored sunglasses.
> *shudder*, that should be banned!
Agreed ... oddly-coloured sunglasses are a blight on society, and should be banned!
Or ... ray-banned?
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The "male" models (the diamond frame) is stronger and more rigid for the same mass. On the other side, many MTB frames (even dedicated "male" frames) have a lower horizontal bar (or an oblique top bar)
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Is it just me, but the only bikes I could see on that site all appeared to be "Girl/Female" bikes with a step through design. Personally the whole concept of the "Male" and "Female" designs boggle my mind, why is it that one with the balls gets the one with the bar? (I understand the whole dress thing on the female bike design, which is where I'm lead to believe it came from..)
I'm pretty sure it's from the days when women wore long skirts. It would be impossible to mount a "male" bicycle without showing some inappropriate leg and getting the petticoat all tangled in the back wheel. The "male" design makes a lot more sense from a structural perspective, so would have been the norm for trouser wearing men.
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The ebike thing is perfect when you have some steep hills on the way - instead of chugging along at a walking pace and getting to the top all sweaty, you let the electric motor work, go faster and aren't tired and sweaty at the end.
Also, the assist from the electric motor allows you to go faster and farther, so you're able to use it in more cases than usual. You can also carry more weight (shopping trip) without effort.
Old (Score:5, Insightful)
We had those here (Japan) for 5 years now, they're quite popular in rural areas or for shopping but otherwise everyone takes the train.
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Train.
A train would be nice. Coast to coast bullet trains would be awesome in the US. A Northern Route, a Southern Route, and some North and South bound routes. Heck, the Northern and Southern route could be the same trains making a big circle and the North and South bound routes could be smaller circles bridging the line. Amtrak is a joke, and we as Americans should take issue with the French having awesome train when we don't have one - we don't let them show us up on anything else, why do we allow th
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In Germany, I'm sure many people would love to have something that they could take on and off the train, to make the medium-distance trips from station to destination. Traditional bikes are already a hassle and few carriages allow something like that.
Folding bikes are often crap, scooters are too big, an electric folding bike might be popular here. Of course, getting every
These are useless as transport (Score:2)
Surely humans can produce well in excess of 250W. The problem with these things is poor handling due to battery weight and their inability to go uphill again down to weight. Once the hill is steep enough it's harder than without battery assistance! Wouldn't want to ride one of these in San Francisco!
Re:These are useless as transport (Score:5, Informative)
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Assuming that you weigh 100 kg (220 pounds) and climb stairs on 10-feet tall stories, you use 250W to climb a story every 12 seconds.
With a bike, climbing a steep hill (12%) with some 3% rolling resistance, assuming you and your bike are 100 kg total (220 pounds), you can go on electric motor alone at 1.5 m/s (5.4 km/h, 3.3 mph, a fast walk)
by the way, those ~750W were for a mine poney (the first steam power plants were used to supplement coal mine poneys), not fo
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The average in-shape 70kg person can produce 200W for a more than an hour on a bicycle (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance [wikipedia.org])
Ever sat on a bicycle in a gym with a wattage meter? It is actually very hard to only produce 125W on a bicycle. On the road you'd go very slow and risk falling over, and in the gym the pedals almost spin faster than your legs.
And of course Lance Armstrong can do that. I am a "recreational" amateur cyclist who does no more than 2500 km/year and can maintain more th
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The BMS programming makes a big difference in terms of how long the batteries last.
My bike has a 3-year / 30,000 mile prorated warranty on its batteries -- but they do that largely because the battery is overprovisioned; it only charges to 80% of what the cells are rated for, and the battery management system also has a hard cutoff before allowing the voltage to drop too low. (Excessive battery temperature? A limit is placed on drain. Excessively low battery temperature? Needs to warm up before being able t
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Re:These are (not at all) useless as transport (Score:2)
Peak? Absolutely.
Over hours? Not so much.
Anyhow, 250W is the kind of pansy-ass bike they make for the European market where the laws are ridiculously restrictive. US- and Canadian-made e-bikes are closer to 1kW output; my own ride is, an Optibike 850x, weighs 55lb including the internal battery, sufficient for 40-50 miles. The external battery brings the range up to over 100 miles and adds 15 pounds more. Newer Optibikes (and mine, when it gets back from its current round of upgrades) are using the Rohloff
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Surely humans can produce well in excess of 250W.
Yes. 250W is only "twice as much power as you provide" if you're taking it very easy. Based on measurements provided by the exercise bikes at my gym, I know I'm able to produce around a kilowatt for 5 minutes or so at a time, and can sustain 500W practically indefinitely.
OTOH, there are regulatory reasons for the motor being 250W: at least here in the UK, you'd need a full drivers licence, annual vehicle inspection and all-around crash helmet to ride it if
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> I know I'm able to produce around a kilowatt for 5 minutes or so at a time, and can sustain 500W practically indefinitely.
Maybe you can beat Lance Armstrong and the others:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/24/weekinreview/24kola.html [nytimes.com]
Re:These are useless as transport (Score:5, Interesting)
Surely humans can produce well in excess of 250W.
Yes. 250W is only "twice as much power as you provide" if you're taking it very easy. Based on measurements provided by the exercise bikes at my gym, I know I'm able to produce around a kilowatt for 5 minutes or so at a time, and can sustain 500W practically indefinitely.
OTOH, there are regulatory reasons for the motor being 250W: at least here in the UK, you'd need a full drivers licence, annual vehicle inspection and all-around crash helmet to ride it if it were more powerful. It should also be designed so that the motor cannot make the bike go faster than 15mph.
Errr... according to this:
Lance Armstrong can ride up the mountains in France generating about 500 watts of power for 20 minutes, something a typical 25-year-old could do for only 30 seconds. A professional hockey player might last three minutes and then throw up. (source [active.com])
...it sounds like you're either an olympic-level athlete... who reads slashdot... or your gym equipment is severely miscalibrated. I've tried those bikes at the gym, and 250W is
my limit for a 10-15 minute stretch, and I'm by no means unhealthy. Are you sure those weren't imperial units? I know the UK has switched to metric, in theory, but I know some of you poms still get confused. 8)
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I call BS.
Perhaps you're an elite cyclist, or someone is editing Wikipedia to make you look silly, but averaging anything like 500W for an hour (much less indefinitely) would make you the worlds best distance cyclist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance [wikipedia.org]
Lance Armstrong near his peak was reputed to be capable of ~520W for 20min.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/24/weekinreview/24kola.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print [nytimes.com]
Ok... so your gym exercise bike is a flattering, but I agree that 250W is within the ran
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Energy cost, perhaps, but I don't know about kinetic energy output. If you're saying you can use 500W for long periods (let's say a couple of hours), then match that to calorie intake. That's 860 kcal to replace the energy cost for that additional work. That's believeable right?
Muscle efficiency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle#Efficiency [wikipedia.org]
"The efficiency of human muscle has been measured (in the context of rowing and cycling) at 18% to 26%"
So if you were right, you'd actually need 3400 kcal to replace
What's the point? (Score:2, Interesting)
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The point is that the batteries don't really weigh that much, and are used for regenerative braking so that all the effort used to climb a hill isn't lost on the way down.
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the alternatives are 10x cheaper (Score:3, Insightful)
An brand-name electric scooter is ~$300, and much more portable.
A Honda motor scooter is under $2000, can seat two people, and go 30mph.
$2300 for an electric bike is just silly.
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You're making it sound like an e-bike is (or should be) a poor man's scooter; that's missing the point.
A good e-bike makes cycling practical for people whose commutes otherwise are too long. I pedal just as hard when I'm on my e-bike as on my conventional one -- but on the e-bike my average speeds are almost double what they are unassisted (and remember, wind resistance makes much more than twice the power necessary to hit double the speed). I don't always have the 2.5 hours necessary to commute round-trip
Nice electric, bad bicycle. (Score:2)
I want something I can use as a regular bicycle, with electric power I can kic
Illegal in Europe (Score:4, Interesting)
A bicycle is unusable for most people where I live because our town is on the sides of a steep sided valley, and the combination of traffic going up the hills at 30mph, and cyclists at 3mph, on narrow English roads, is lethal. To be really useful, an electric bike needs to be able to go up those hills at 20mph.
If there was a political will for this, there would be a Europe-wide specification for an electric bicycle of, say, about 1200W maximum output and a continuous rating of 800, with a test and licence requirement but zero tax and a State-sponsored insurance scheme to overcome the objections of insurance companies, who detest anything new in the way of risk.
Of course there would be a need for new regulations - such as limiting them to 12mph on cycle tracks - but this is nothing that technology couldn't handle (e.g. a "cycle track mode" which flashes a green light, to assist law enforcement.) But an electric bicycle that was fast enough to be safe in European urban traffic would be vastly better than the current situation, where only the very fit can ride a heavy, limited electric bicycle on anything other than the level.
Twice the power? (Score:2)
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By American and Canadian standards, 250W is a lousy excuse for an ebike -- but for the European market it's the standard, as that's the limit there to be street-legal.
This article was ridiculously ill-researched -- there are (and have been for years) much, much better bikes out on the US market, the higher end ones having upward of 650W sustained output where the rubber meets the road, and peaking up around 2hp when combined with a strong rider. See the power meter readings at http://groups.google.com/group [google.com]
Lame. (Score:2)
They demoed E-bikes on my college campus, and with good reason- college yuppies are actually stupid and wealthy enough to buy E-bikes. I test-rode one, and it's fun, but not $2000 fun. I'll stick with my regular bike.
To make matters worse, these dumbasses ride around stupidly and create more hate for cyclists from pedestrians and motorists alike. Also, they're stimulating the bike theft market by locking up poorly. Last week I saw one locked with a U-lock around a single spoke of the front wheel and a cable
Unexploded battery under your bum? (Score:2)
a black lithium-ion battery strapped to the frame beneath the seat
whatcouldpossiblygowrong?
Still cost too much (Score:3, Interesting)
The interest in these has never been lacking. They simply cost too much for a reasonably well designed model to make any real headway though. If they could get the low end down to below $300 and the high end closer to $800-$1000 they might actually make some progress, but until then, there will be no significant change in the way people use bicycles.
Especially when you consider the fact that most people (in the USA at least) use bicycles because they either can't afford something more practical/versatile or are using it as a way to exercise.
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Re:Laziness! Now in disguise! (Score:4, Interesting)
Not all ebikes are built alike.
I ride a mid-drive bike. The motor (built into the bottom bracket) is optimized to work with a rider pedaling with a cadence in the 85-90 range, and the bike just doesn't feel right unless you're working along with it. Indeed, one proponent of a competing product has made a point online of calling us "Optibike huffers", referring (I presume) to our tendency to be getting enough of a workout to be panting at the end of a ride. (My commutes are fast, and fun... but not by any means sweat-free; thankfully, work has showers).
My heart rate is regularly in the 150-170 range for about 90 minutes a day while I'm riding -- which is pretty much where it should be for the kind of exercise I'm trying to get -- and the regime has my employer's health coach downright thrilled with my weight loss, lowered cholesterol, lowered resting heart rate, etc.
So -- enough of the stereotyping, 'kay?
Re:fatties. (Score:4, Interesting)
It's not the weight. I can easily do that distance around here (some long hills), although my commute is about 33.
It's that I have no place (shower) to become tolerable to my co-workers for the rest of the day.
With an electric (not the silly Sanyo, but a proper one with a decent CG, and the drive to the rear wheel, if I can ever find one), I can "ride" to work and pedal home. Dragging the extra weight of the batteries would be even better exercise (for that trip) than just a bicycle.
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Why is it double the price in the US?
It has to be packaged and shipped to the states - along with stocks of spare parts, etc.
It has to have an American distributor.
It has to be successfully advertised and promoted here.
It has to be sold with a warranty and service plan that will attract the American buyer.