A Broadband Survey That Asks the Right Questions 120
Lauren Weinstein writes "I've just deployed the first ever Broadband Survey under the auspices of GCTIP, which asks questions that the FCC neglected to ask about service types, promised vs. actual broadband speeds, user satisfaction (or lack thereof) with their ISPs and local ISP competition, etc. I'm already finding the detailed comments many persons are leaving on the survey form to be extremely illuminating and with sufficient participation I'm hoping my reports from this data will be useful to the Internet community broadly."
Uhmmmmm (Score:4, Insightful)
So, you post a survey on Slashdot. Now, I am not a statistician, and I have never played one on TV, but I think I have heard a thing or two about selection bias. Is your organization run by two college kids and an IIS server?
Re:Uhmmmmm (Score:5, Funny)
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IIS is not a real HTTP server although it has played one on TV.
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The filename is: 4fCLFKlYW3c&ap=%26fmt=18&autoplay=0&rel=0&fs!type=
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i didnt check out the article, but that's a youtube link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fCLFKlYW3c&fmt=18 [youtube.com]
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Re:Uhmmmmm (Score:5, Insightful)
Have fun evaluating all those textboxes!
No kidding. Who the hell in their right mind has a free-form text box to enter *both* your download and upload speed in bits?
My answer: People stopped using 9600 baud modems a long time ago, so I'm not sure how many bits I get--or even kilobits. Sure, I could do the math, but your survey is retarded. I get 15 MEGABITS (or should I sound like a retard and use the prefix MEBI?!?) down burstable to 30, and 2 megabits up, burstable to 0.0005 gigabits up. Have fun with the conversion, fuckers.
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Actually in communications the units are in multiples of 10, so it really is 15 megabits.
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> (or should I sound like a retard and use the prefix MEBI?!?)
No need! You actually sound like a retard just by implying that
using mebi makes one "sound like a retard". As an AC poster pointed out to you, in this case the unit is actually mega, not mega-pretending-to-be-mebi, and thus your own confusion makes a poster case for the need to accurately and unambiguously differentiate between the two units.
Want flame, get flame.
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No need! You actually sound like a retard just by implying that using mebi makes one "sound like a retard".
Hey--I'll fully admit that I have no clue when to sound like a retard and when not to. All I care about is that megabits when talking comms gear is base ten, storage is base 2, and marketing folks should be shot for perverting the system.
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The people that I want to see get broadband still measure their speed in bits. My sister gets 22,000 bits per second, my dad is lucky to get 19,200 if the wind is right. Dialup still exists in remote areas and still sucks. Those are the people that need at least 5mb before I get my 10mb upgraded to 100mb.
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Speaking as a guy who lives rural, I have dial-up on my new property and a 900 MHz radio shot to an ISP serving rural central Virginia at my current place. That can get up to 1.5 mb max and I am damn glad to be able to get half of that! Satellite is okay for some, but the latencies are a killer for anything SSH/SSL related.
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But do you actually get 15MBits or is that the name of the product they are selling you. In Germany, the DSL providers sell you a 16mbit connection but you may only get 8mbit, depending on how far you live from the switch. Cable, which I have, seems to come pretty close to the 32mbits they are advertising.
Check out www.speedtest.net to see your actual speed.
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But do you actually get 15MBits or is that the name of the product they are selling you. In Germany, the DSL providers sell you a 16mbit connection but you may only get 8mbit, depending on how far you live from the switch. Cable, which I have, seems to come pretty close to the 32mbits they are advertising.
Check out www.speedtest.net to see your actual speed.
Actually, I've never been as slow as they advertise. My connection is supposed to be 15/2, but I almost always get 30/5. (It helps living in a neighborhood where almost no one else has high speed internet or can afford it, but the cable passes by on the way to the industrial areas). ;)
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ADSL, Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line.
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I really should learn to read things properly.
This survey is disabled (Score:1)
Another reason not to use a free survey. It gets slashdotted almost immediately.
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Is your organization run by two college kids and an IIS server?
I agree. I'm not sure about the sending of a sperm sample as adequate proof of my sex... But at least they collected my credit card information so the could refund the shipping!
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Brett Glass! (Score:1, Informative)
Check it out: www.brettglass.com
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http://www.whois.net/whois/gctip.org [whois.net]
gctip was registered by Lauren Weinstein on behalf of Vortex Technology [vortex.com], which also appears to be run by Lauren. According to their whois record, they have an office in this [google.com] building. On her blog, she claims to be self-employed [vortex.com].
They also seem related to pfir.org [pfir.org], though not by whois. What exactly that connection is, besides webdesign, is unclear.
My guess, this is either a well-meaning person who has never run a 100k response survey before, or they're a First Class Grep
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No. If you look at the site, the organization is run by the poster.
This is just another survey that pretends to look authoritive and legit but really isn't.
Getting relevant responses? Gosh! (Score:2, Interesting)
This is a self-selected survey
You're getting relevant responses from people who are already actively interested in discussing the topic? Will wonders never cease?
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Because, after all, a self-selected group of people actively interested in discussing the topic is sure to be representative of the population as a whole.
Re:Getting relevant responses? Gosh! (Score:4, Insightful)
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You're also more likely to care about technical details that nobody else gives a shit about.
This negates what should be a more informed opinion, landing you squarely in the realm of another worthless survey.
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The types of questions on the FCC broadband test can be answered by anyone, but questions like what speed does your ISP promise you is more difficult.
FCC: Enter your address and click on this Java thing to run a speed test to show what you're actually getting, ignoring things like competition and user choice. If the cable company is a bunch of ripe turds and everyone uses dial-up because they've quit using the cable company, the FCC will see that only dial-up is available in the area.
My problem is that cab
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Well - you won't get very many results from people who are NOT interested in discussing the topic, will you?
Have you ever wondered how those more formal surveys handle people like me, who usually hang up when they call? Or, slam the door in their faces, if they show up in person? Or walk a wide circle around them, if they are set up at a shopping center?
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No survey is completely objective. Seriously, all surveys are highly susceptible to the self-selection or opt-in behavior of the survey pool, the selection of the survey pool by the one conducting the survey, and of how the questions in the survey are ordered and constructed. That is how you can pay firms to help you get the stats you need.
I say props to this guy for mentioning it up front.
A Broadband Survey That Asks the Right Questions (Score:5, Insightful)
I.e., ones that are loaded so as to produce the results that the author wants to see.
Re:A Broadband Survey That Asks the Right Question (Score:4, Insightful)
Which of the questions did you consider loaded?
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The "email" question, which they are likely goign to sell the results of.
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In your opinion, is there sufficient ISP competition available to you at your location? (Yes, No, Maybe, I don't know)
This should have asked something objective, like: how many companies offer residential broadband service at your address (not counting satellite).
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Number of companies isn't necessarily a good measure of competition. You can have cutthroat competition between two providers (even if one is only potential!), or collusion among ten.
Whether there is "sufficient" competition is inherently subjective. They might as well have asked whether one felt one was getting a "good deal".
In the source of the page: (Score:3, Interesting)
really? really?!
Re:In the source of the page: (Score:5, Funny)
That is one incredibly precise versioning scheme...
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Major.Minor.ReleaseNumber.RevisionNumber
It's a pretty standard model. At my workplace right now we're on 1.0.88.3494 on one of our products. First major, working toward the first minor, 88th tag, tagged from trunk svn revision 3494.
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FCC speed test vs. this post (Score:3, Insightful)
But I must concede this survey gets the upper hand against the FCC speed test in two aspects:
It's even later to the party than the FCC test was.
It covers an even smaller portion of the population than the FCC test did.
The Australian Broadband Survey... compare? (Score:4, Interesting)
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Seconded. I used the Whirlpool surveys to choose my ISP.
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Everybody needs broadband help over old copper
If your on adsl 2+, then its a hunt for the perfect chipset that works given your isp and distance.
Be fun to see a survey like that in the US.
Some real numbers.
Fast Enough (Score:2, Insightful)
768k DSL is fast enough for most people - posting on Facebook, checking CNN, sending webmail. The people who need 10MBit are the warez hounds and ISO downloaders.
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Your assumptions may have been fine 5 or 6 years ago but today they're nonsense and we're only going to see more of the same.
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The people who need 10MBit are the warez hounds and ISO downloaders.
Are you really that ignorant or do you have an agenda?
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The people who need 10MBit are the warez hounds and ISO downloaders.
Are you really that ignorant or do you have an agenda?
Agenda? Who would have an agenda these days ;-)
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And watching netflix on my xbox 360 puts me in....which one of those categories?
Re:Fast Enough (Score:4, Funny)
Warez Hound! Burn Him!
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SSH uses very little bandwidth (although I suppose you could pipe virtually anything through it if you wanted).
[disclaimer]This is supposed to be a light-hearted post. Please no flames.[/disclaimer]
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SSH uses very little bandwidth (although I suppose you could pipe virtually anything through it if you wanted).
[disclaimer]This is supposed to be a light-hearted post. Please no flames.[/disclaimer]
Have you tried to ssh while your wife was playing cafe world on facebook?? Ugggg
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This was true, and possibly still is true for some values of "most people", but there are quite a few uses for broadband which are legal, increasingly mainstream, and which greatly benefit from increased bandwidth. E.g. Legitimately buying/downloading games (Steam,2dBoy,Telltale Games), watching streaming video (BBC iPlayer, Netflix), working/vid
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Don't forget that a 10mbps session will help with the FDIC's Money Smart education program [69.0.254.19], as well as other online education programs. Sending webmail does involve kicking around photographs from friends, which can easily be 4MB each. Online gaming can eat a ton of bandwidth, even just accounting for basic titles like World of Warcraft. A single streaming radio stream can eat a full 768k DSL... a house full of kids all streaming Pandora at once? Most of my work has required VPN-ing into the office at s
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768k DSL is fast enough for most people
Facebook, CNN, and webmail, sure. Xbox Live, Netflix, NBA, Youtube, Hulu... nope.
Also, you have to consider how fast 768K as advertised really is. That's nowhere near 768K.
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768k DSL is fast enough for most people - posting on Facebook, checking CNN, sending webmail. The people who need 10MBit are the warez hounds and ISO downloaders.
Really? Have you tried to ssh while your wife or girlfriend was playing cafe world on facebook?
UGGG!!
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Map out the US broadband network and you will have a visit from some 3 letter agency- as your collecting choke point data, areas of critical one point failure.
Best just to sit back and accept a best effort average as printed by your gov and telco.
Right Questions, Wrong Format (Score:5, Informative)
That page desperately needs text boxes to input all the answers about bandwidth/latency/jitter.
I filled out the survey, but sweet tap dancing Jesus do I pity the person(s) who have to turn the results into useable data.
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black is white (Score:2)
I love when a so-called broadband provider tries to tell me I can't measure connection speeds. I switched from UVerse to Roadrunner, and enjoyed a speed increase of at least 3 times (and I've seen as much as 15 times faster), and a lower monthly bill. When they asked why I was leaving and I told them of the speed difference, their rep tried to convince me that it was just my imagination.
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I've got AT&T DSL and it's the worst internet connection I've ever had. Unfortunately it's all that's available where I live. It's slow (3mbps connection that usually runs at about 1/5 of that) and it randomly disconnects about once an hour and takes a few minutes to figure out how to reconnect....
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DSL is pretty hit-or-miss, depending on the address or block receiving it. The noisy line can be the line from the company's box to the house. Or it can be wiring within the house. Or the client might just be too far from the nearest station to receive good signal no matter what the conditions. Or, far more than we'd like to admit (at least when I was working on this sort of thing), the line from the center to the company's box can just be noisy. For example, I had a client once where the phone company
i wanted to comment on that survey (Score:2)
and then I figured it's not even worth it.
Rigged Bandwidth Testing (Score:2, Interesting)
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Actually, most likely they are hosting a bandwidth test server at their office. That way they can diagnose your actual customer connection. Presumably, they have ways of monitoring their WAN gateway separately.
I teach survey design... This is terrible. (Score:5, Insightful)
This, in all honesty, is the worst survey I have ever seen, and I work with language teachers.
Not only are you setting yourself up for selection bias (as many others have pointed out), you've got all these free-answer text boxes all over it. Have you given any thought whatsoever to what you're going to do with the "data" that you get from this instrument?
Things like network speed should be in set categories. Satisfaction should be on a Likert scale, and should be broken down into aspects of interest (satisfaction with upload, download, etc.). The ISPs should be on a drop-down menu, not free answer (you'll need to include an "Other"). ZIP and City should be in separate fields (how are you going to parse those?--yes, it can be done, BUT WHY???).
Your question about maximum upload and download speed and limit and favorite color... Son, you make me want to stab out my eyes with a fork. What are you asking with that question? Whatever it is, it should be several questions with constrained responses.
One of the cardinal rules of survey design is that it should be quick and easy for people to fill out. Do the hard work for them, and let them just tick boxes. If you don't, they won't take it and all you'll get is data skewed toward people who--like you--actually care enough to type up a bunch of thoughts. I care about broadband, but even I am not interested in blathering away into a text box.
Pray tell, what "statistical purposes" would my email address be used for? Last I knew, principal components analysis only took numeric data... Same for cluster analysis. "This will only be used for magical statistics that use email addresses as variables... Or if we want to drop a line and say hi." Please.
You are setting yourself up for a world of hurt. You will need to go through with Nvivo or something to categorize all the garbage you get from this, and even if you present results, all you're really going to be presenting is "here is some stuff that people said." I have no time for listening to results of surveys like that. It's softheaded gibberish.
You are lucky you're not a student in my research practicum. There's no way I'd sign off on this as a research instrument.
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I have never wished more for mod points as now. I promise when I get some, I'll come back here.
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Hah, I love that comment!
"Overall - considering performance, cost, and any other factors - how would you rate your ISP?" - so many factors in one 10-point scale? WTF are you thinking?
First, think about what you want to find out, make up hypotheses and then ask something related to them that can actually be translated into usable results.
As I've pointed out before: The creator of the survey was apparently constrained by the service she used to build this thing. By the looks of it, it's utter crap probably no
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My personal free favorite can be found here [kwiksurveys.com].
Full access to for number of responses, csv export, reasonably good visualization tools, matrix responses, direct e-mail invites, and not quite as ugly as sin.
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But where I work we get this survey which has hundreds of questions, asking variations of the same question over and over again. They are clearly aiming at some kind of psychological test. Is there a name for that approach in your field? Do you know what they are driving at? The general thrust is on what we think of our workplace, but their questions could be asked on one page. Instead they use 10 pages.
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Do you know what they are driving at?
They're trying to figure out if you're lying, trying to make yourself look good, trying to make yourself look bad, or otherwise screwing with the survey answers. They actually need to be about 10 pages for reliability purposes and the like. The field is called psychometrics, and I've gotta agree with the OP on his rant. I just looked at the data someone collected for her masters thesis, and it's all open ended survey stuff, so she's crying at the thought of getting it into a usable form in SPSS and a good c
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Thanks for answering the fellow's question.
Regarding your student, she may be able to salvage a big of her reputation with Nvivo. I try to keep my personal research clean and quantitative, but I have advised on projects where messy, open-ended data was necessary. I don't actually know how to use it, but a colleague of mine did a presentation on it, and it seemed to offer a neat way to at least be organized in one's interpretation of messy data.
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She's not my student (I'm undergrad myself). I don't think she wants to learn a new software package, but I'll send her a link to Nvivo (it looks good). For her thesis she needs categorical data, but this might be a good place to start in terms of her thinking about how she wants to sift through the data.
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So, you are the guy responsible for all these horrible cookie cutter type surveys.
You see them over and over again. Multiple choice and the answer isn't one of the choices. Talk about invalidating the results. Nothing borks the results more than forcing someone to give inaccurate answers to complete the survey.
I used to work for a survey company and hear the frustration all night long. Frustration compounded by the fact that I wasn't allowed to give any explanation or even apologize lest I corrupt the data.
Re:I teach survey design... This is terrible. (Score:4, Informative)
A well-designed survey would have been born as an open-answer one first, administered, and the resultant data categorized into constrained responses. Then it would have been given again and checked for reliability. There would probably be some manner of factor analysis done at this point to identify patterns in the responses (make sure that items that should be similar are similar, etc.). Then you give it again and make sure that the factors or paths look the same. Then you'd give it for real. Each time, though, you'd need a unique sample.
Virtually no one does this, though, for obvious reasons.
So what you were working with there was a poorly-developed survey.
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One of the cardinal rules of survey design is that it should be quick and easy for people to fill out. Do the hard work for them, and let them just tick boxes. If you don't, they won't take it and all you'll get is data skewed toward people who--like you--actually care enough to type up a bunch of thoughts. I care about broadband, but even I am not interested in blathering away into a text box.
Whoo boy, I think you done broke my snickerer!
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This, in all honesty, is the worst survey I have ever seen, and I work with language teachers.
I'm so glad the person who did this survey is male... otherwise, my entire gender would be flamed for the poor job.
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How the hell this got on slashdot???
"A Survey that does not get it right" (Score:1)
First off, Lauren is asking people to disclose their upload and download speeds but disagrees with they way the FCC has asked people to do. The FCC asks everyone to use the same measuring tool. (at least that is my understand
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I'm halfway convinced this survey is just a method to harvest e-mail addresses.
First ever? (Score:1)
There has never ever been a broadband survey? Wow you rock!
FCC Speed test: misleading results ... (Score:1)
Just seeing 20,000 plus kilobits down and over 4,000 kilobits up were obviously burst speeds that are available for very short periods and amounts. Yes those are the real, however, they are maximum values seen rarely. I wonder too how many providers are detecting the test to skew the results upward to imaginary values. Unfortunately, I suspect more than just a few.
Doubting Thomas (Score:1)
Broken (Score:1)
I don't think it is an email harvester because that field is optional.
Form disabled message (Score:2)
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Yup. To get this posted here, then not keep your fucking form up, or even put a notice at the top of it that you're not accepting it ... total douche.