Man Put On "No-Fly List" While In Air To NYC 300
An unnamed man flying from Nigeria to New York City found out he was added to a no-fly list somewhere above the Atlantic Ocean, when the plane stopped to refuel in San Juan, Puerto Rico. Officials won't say what he did or why he was added to the list after he had already boarded a flight. He was not immediately charged with a crime and Customs and Border Protection will only say that he is a "potential person of interest." From the article: "The man, a citizen of Gambia, was not on the no-fly list when he boarded the aircraft in Dakar, Senegal, said a US official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the issue publicly."
Quick Question (Score:5, Funny)
Do they still put Parachutes on airliners?
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toss him out on the raft thingie
Sounds like something Jet Blue would do.
Re:Quick Question (Score:4, Funny)
Spirit would charge him for the raft.
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Re:Quick Question (Score:5, Funny)
And not even give you the raft.
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Even before things descended to the level of poking fun at RyanAir, I don't think that anyone one was proposing giving away a liferaft. Those things are expensive!
"Disembarking early, sir? Would you like to consider our life-raft rental service. It's very competitively priced. We can also provide insurance against you not surviving your disembarkation, and against not being found for 3 weeks."
Besides, I wouldn't be surprised to find that no (reputable) airline owns any liferaf
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It's the emergency slide that deploys if you open the door that would work. The only problem is that there's no way to actually deploy the slide, board it, and THEN cut it loose while the plane is underway because the wind would rip it right off at those speeds.
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No, they put Buster in the raft, and dropped him from the helicopter (at 2k feet, IIRC). The raft see-sawed back and forth, but stayed upright (keeping him in it) and slowed his fall.
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The same way King Kong is "center"-apelike.
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Of course there is, what the hell else do you call that force that slows your fall?
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Drag?
No fly list is a dumb idea (Score:5, Interesting)
Perhaps this case is an exception, but I have always fest that the no-fly list is one of the dumbest ideas out there. In a criminal case (which terrorism and conspiracy are) you do not want to let the suspect know you are on to them until the cops come to arrest them. With the watch lists, all a sleeper has to do is take a commercial flight, and they will immediately know if they are on a watch list.
Not to mention the civil liberties abuses that result when someone is denied the right to travel (by air) with due process, no notification, and no effective means of appeal.
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Perhaps this case is an exception, but I have always fest that the no-fly list is one of the dumbest ideas out there. In a criminal case (which terrorism and conspiracy are) you do not want to let the suspect know you are on to them until the cops come to arrest them.
Considering the main point of the no-fly list is to prevent suicide bombings, combined with the fact that it's hard to arrest a corpse, I think the preventative method is a better choice.
(I am in no way endorsing the no-fly list, just using some sarcastic humor to point out the part the parent missed)
Re:No fly list is a dumb idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Considering the main point of the no-fly list is to prevent suicide bombings, combined with the fact that it's hard to arrest a corpse, I think the preventative method is a better choice.
Except for the fact that the percentage of suicide bombers vs the number of passenger miles flown is so ridiculously small it shouldn't warrant such a heavy handed response. Even if we removed all the security from airports there probably wouldn't be that many more incidents if any. Also within minutes of the 9/11 attacks when people realized that hi-jackers weren't taking planes for joy rides to Cuba anymore; the passengers of planes started to keep an eye out for suspicious behavior and started reacting to threats. Starting with Flight 93 planes have already secured themselves; had the Flight 93 passengers realized sooner what the cooks with box cutters were doing they may have even been able to safely land their plane.
Re:No fly list is a dumb idea (Score:5, Insightful)
"Except for the fact that the percentage of suicide bombers vs the number of passenger miles flown is so ridiculously small it shouldn't warrant such a heavy handed response. Even if we removed all the security from airports there probably wouldn't be that many more incidents if any"
I disagree with your assessment. Hijackings to Cuba were in the vogue until security made them pretty much pointless. Suicide bombers don't actually want to anywhere but heaven, so any destination for the plane is both irrelevant and moot, though you could make the point that U.S. bound planes would be more popular than others.
Actually, try leaving your front door open at home, and announcing that fact down at the local coffee shop. repeatedly. See how that lack of security works for ya. Haven't seen anyone scratching at your door lately, have you? Must not be any real problem.
And suicide bombers are at least as motivated as your local meth head getting a cuppa at Starbucks.
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And suicide bombers are at least as motivated as your local meth head getting a cuppa at Starbucks.
Since when could meth heads afford Starbucks?
On a more serious note, your post does nothing to address the fact that the no-fly list is a waste of time and money as a preventive measure, because it catches orders of magnitude more innocent flyers (including one US Senator) than actual terrorist suspects.
Re:No fly list is a dumb idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Delaying the innocent is annoying, but not a sign of failure.
Not preventing an known suspect who then does cause harm, that would be a failure.
This is the dilemma we face. If we succeed in keeping bad guys off the planes, we will not know how many gave up at security checkpoints and went home. We'll know if it fails, though.
And Senators could learn a lot by having to deal with what *we* deal with
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It's not "delaying innocent" people, it's refusing to allow people to fly and giving them no reason or recourse for it.
Just another example of US paranoia, nothing more.
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just admit it, the post-9/11 security changes have been pointless security theater meant to placate the pants-shitters rather than prevent actual attacks.
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And we now have security. The locked and reinforced doors to the cabin. That's what would have completely prevented 9/11, and with that the only thing we realistically need is explosive/bioweapon sniffing.
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So I'm sure you'll ignore this as it doesn't fit into your dogma, but I live in a pretty rough neighborhood. I never thought so until the police told me that there is more crime in my area than in what I thought was the bad part of town. There is a soup kitchen at the end of my street and a pretty much non-stop stream of homeless people wondering between there and the library (apparently the library is a convenient place where young girls can be found).
For a period of time, I had a roommate. He had an ex
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Except for the fact that the percentage of suicide bombers vs the number of passenger miles flown is so ridiculously small it shouldn't warrant such a heavy handed response.
I agree completely. Proactive responses are pointless, everyone knows that! That's why I've been working hard over the last year to convince my city that we don't need a fire department, smoke alarms, or all those silly building-codes designed to prevent fires. We have so few people die in fires that there's clearly no way to justify such over-the-top policies.
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Your mom collapses with no damage.
Re:No fly list is a dumb idea (Score:4, Insightful)
So, if I'm understanding your premise, the mysterious conspiracy which destroyed the Twin Towers through some method other than the goddamned 767's full of jet fuel that struck them also decided to destroy the WTC 7 building across the street despite it not being hit directly by anything for... what purpose exactly? Did they just have some extra explosives left over and didn't know what else to do with them?
I also like how you refer the conclusions of pretty much every structural engineer who examined the events as "spin". Because of course the building couldn't have fallen due to damage and uncontrolled fires from two of the largest skyscrapers in the world collapsing right next to it - that's what they *want* you to think!
I'm not saying some elements of the government and intelligence services didn't take advantage of the events for their own goals afterwards, or couldn't have theoretically been involved in letting them happen in the first place (however unlikely), but if you can't accept that just maybe being hit by giant metal tubes full of liquid specifically designed for combustion in full view of hundreds of witnesses might be a reason for the structural collapse of some buildings, there's not much point in attempting to hold a rational conversation with you.
Also, random videos on youtube are not generally a particularly reliable source of information.
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The whole Truthers movement is full of such stupidity I don't even know where to start, honestly.
Look, someone wants to premise a monstrous government conspiracy to fly airplanes into the WTC, Pentagon, and (not) the White House, okay. The Bush administration is not exactly known for...truthfulness in reasons to go to war, and it's something I can conceive of Cheney setting up, although it would be hard to keep quiet.
What I can't conceive of is a conspiracy to bring down WTC 7 (Why?), or them shipping exp
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No, the main point of the no fly list is:
(1) to present the appearance of "doing something" about terrorism without any accountability for actually doing anything (i.e., security theater), and
(2) to get people used to tolerating arbitrary and unaccountable deprivations of liberty without due process.
Its probably more successful at the latter than the former, as most people don't seem to be fooled into thinking it actually provides
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Would you rather they enforce a no-fly list for "people of interest" (often because they attended terrorist training camps, or that we have to remove yet another piece of clothing in the airport for security theater?
Re:No fly list is a dumb idea (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd rather have neither.
People seem to forget that THAT is also an option.
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Not really. Everytime we have an underwear-bomber, we need a useless knee-jerk reaction to make people feel safe.
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"Not really. Everytime we have an underwear-bomber,..."
We need to capture one with a bomb where the sun doesn't shine, that would get rid of the underwear problem.
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Re:No fly list is a dumb idea (Score:4, Interesting)
Are you suggesting me make it illegal to associate with others, or to pursue information?
I think that is a far worse offense to civil liberties than a no-fly list.
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I choose neither.
Lightning has killed more folks in the past 50 years than terrorism in the USA.
You are hundreds of times more likely to die in your car on the way to the airport than in an airline related terrorist attack.
Re:No fly list is a dumb idea (Score:4, Insightful)
And far bigger than either of those are conditions related to diet: heart disease and diabetes in particular. If we were serious about saving American lives, Ronald McDonald would be the first on the no-fly list.
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Re:No fly list is a dumb idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Yea, and then we can force all americans to convert to Muslim religions and eliminate democracy. There will ALWAYS be reasons to terrorize us.
Ya know, I disagree pretty strongly with many policies of the US government. Yet that never inspires me to blow stuff up. That's probably because the violence the government engages in overseas never directly touches my life. Persuasion and political activism are much more appealing than terrorism to most people, when there is no violence to incite them to reciprocal violence.
However, I suspect I would feel an awful, awful lot more malicious & violent if an American bombing raid had blown up my family. Maybe if we stopped squandering our national wealth and moral authority -- if we still have any of either left -- on wars of aggression, then folks in other countries wouldn't feel so motivated to attack us.
Re:No fly list is a dumb idea (Score:5, Insightful)
That would be if your actual goal was to capture terrorists, convince them to talk, capture more terrorists, etc. If on the other hand your goal is to harass people who are a color or religion you don't like, then they're very very effective. And the best part is that through these petty annoyances you convince more of them that the US is in fact the great evil that should be wiped off the face of the earth, making sure that no matter how many bad guys you capture you're never going to be out of a job.
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In Arizona they're trying to pass a no walk/swim list law so they can question anyone who "looks like they could be in the country illegally." Poor native americans, they'll never know what hit them!
At first I laughed when I read your comment, but I'm less and less sure it's a joke.
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Re:No fly list is a dumb idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Morons even made it illegal to be in the country illegally.
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you have no right to travel by air. even to petition your government. the federal court claimed you have available alternatives that are "just as good". apparently we're expected to get on a horse and take 3-5 months traveling from the west coast to the east coast. it was good enough in the 1800s, the last time the judges did it, dammit. and you Hawaiians and Alaskans? Better work on that side stroke. (It takes ID for Alaskans to go through Canada.)
http://www.papersplease.org/wp/ [papersplease.org]
http://www.papersplea [papersplease.org]
Re:No fly list is a dumb idea (Score:4, Interesting)
you have no right to travel by air.
Does any article of the Constitution specifically deny me the right to air travel?
If not, then the Ninth Amendment grants me that right.
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Now, now...no making fun of the barely living fossils that make up our Supreme Court just because they're a bunch of clueless ninnies who are so far out of touch with modern reality. Our founding fathers thought it would be a good idea they be appointed for life, and just because history has shown that to be a terrible idea does not mean we're going to change it any time soon!
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Not to mention the errors made in adding names to the list. A coworkers 6 year old son was on the list, they discovered this while checking in to board a flight while on vacation. The airport officials had the good common sense to realize a 6 year old kid isn't a terrorist and let them all board the flight. Now they have to go through channels to get the kid removed from the NFL.
Re:No fly list is a dumb idea (Score:5, Funny)
Now they have to go through channels to get the kid removed from the NFL.
Tell him to try dog fighting.
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by the way it was estimated that 7,000 Americans match that 'name'
I sure hope these 7,000 potential terrorists have been arrested and sent to Guantanamo Bay already.
Especially that senator. He's the most suspicious one out of all of them, being a senator and all.
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He's especially suspicious because he's dead.
Re:No fly list is a dumb idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Think about this for 10 seconds. If you had evidence that someone was going to blow up an airplane then you should arrest the fucker. Just as if you had evidence that someone was going to rob a bank you'd arrest him.
If you have NO evidence that someone was going to commit a crime then you shouldn't do shit and just let him on his way.
The no fly list says "we have no evidence regarding you, so you're not a threat in the eyes of the LAW, but we're going to restrict your freedom anyway." It's shit like this, the removal of our freedom for no reason, that seriously warrants armed rebellion against the government.
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Being on a no-fly list is not the same as being forbidden from entering the country. Many
Re:No fly list is a dumb idea (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not the OP, but I'd like to respond.
That remark alone shows your ignorance. There is no "right to travel (by air)
Not to split hairs here. But there is no right to FLY a plane. Just as there is no right to DRIVE a car.
I find it rather interesting its reached the point where you are justifying that someone should be denied the 'priviledge' of riding in one too. Do you support depriving someone the "priviledge" of being a *passenger* on a car or bus or boat (including ferries) too?
It is a privilege for those who meet certain conditions.
And those conditions are what exactly? As it stands right now, you can't be on a plane if you have brownish skin and a name vaguely similiar to a guy who the FBI thinks might have known someone who attended an event suspected of being a terrorist recruiting event... whether this other person completely unrelated to you actually even joined, assuming it was actually a terrorist recruiting event.
If they cannot meet those conditions and, perhaps, more, then they cannot get on a plane.
An e woods recently ran a red light. That's dangerous and could kill someone. As a result I think anyone named 'e woods' 'e. woods' 'ed woods' 'ed wood' should be prohibited from driving a car. Further, I think anyone by this name should also be prohibited from RIDING in a car... they might overpower the driver and kill someone.
I guess you don't meet the conditions to get in a car anymore. Never mind a plane.
Don't complain to me though, you don't have a right to be a car. Its just a privilege. One you don't meet the conditions for.
Sucks to be you.
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The government can only deny us this right if they have a power to do so, granted to the government by the people, by means of the Constitution. I am not presently able to find the section of the Constitution that gives the government the powe
And people wonder... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:And people wonder... (Score:5, Interesting)
And people wonder why airline travel is down in the US. Or, to the US for that matter.
I'll give you an example of why airline travel is down in the US:
I flew from San Diego to San Francisco last weekend and got pulled aside because of some ham radio equipment (two small VHF hand-held transceivers) in my carry-on bag. I explained what they were while the TSA guy ripped everything out of my bag and ran it all through the X-ray machine again. Then I explained it all again to his supervisor. Took about a half hour but, "fortunately," my flight was delayed two hours so I was okay.
Any other old greybeards out there remember when flying was fun? An adventure, rather than a big PITA only slightly better than traveling on a Greyhound bus?
Re:And people wonder... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And people wonder... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd be surprised if security theater accounts form more than 0.5% of the decrease in domestic air travel. People just don't care. Air travel is down domestically because prices are up and theres a recession. Nothing more, nothing less.
Now tourism may have suffered because the US is perceived (accurately?) to have become less friendly for foreigners - but the airport rigmarole is only tangentially related to even that.
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Re:And people wonder... (Score:4, Insightful)
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It's not just people refusing to have their private parts scanned as a matter of principle. It's also people who decide it's simply too much of a headache, with the airport security and the customs forms only being subconsciously incorporated into their thoughts. When I'm flying, I'm always, in the back of my mind, afraid. Not of terrorists, who kill less air travellers than bad weather, but of the security. I'm afraid of being detained for hours because I lost some critical document or made a mistake in fi
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Since it has substantially increased door-to-door travel times when their is commercial air travel anywhere in the process, and since travel time is the big selling point of air travel over other forms of travel, I suspect its a much bigger factor than that, particular for shorter flights.
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Do you go alone? How much does that 6 hour flight cost? $200? $300? Does that include your bags?
See, I make 8-10 hour drives 6-8 times a year, but I do it because it's cheaper, especially when I'm traveling with someone as I usually am. 8 hours in a car and it's only marginally less convenient than flying - and not because of security. A trip that takes about six hours to drive takes what 4 to fly including driving to and from the airport, waiting to check in, getting there early, waiting to pick up y
Yeah, I remember... (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeah, I remember. It used to be ungodly expensive to fly, and we actually dressed nice just to get on a plane. It actually felt civilized.
Now we have cut-rate prices and slobs in flip-flops and mustard-stained t-shirts belching all around us. Sorry if that sounds elitist. It isn't. Lower prices ALWAYS bring the hoards, civilized or not.
The PITA, slightly better-than-Greyhound travel isn't really all due to the nonsense security we have now, though. Let's be clear on that.
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Apropos of the validity or accuracy of your point, let's be clear:
You were, in fact, actually being entirely elitist.
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I was at the airport waiting to give a vistor a ride. There had been a story on the news the night before about some new device that scans your hands for explosive residue. It had some sort of pad that was wiped over the skin.I wanted to know if the device uses a fluid because of allergies.
It was very slow at the moment and because there was a bored TSA employee sitting at a station to make sure nobody went the wrong way at security, I walked up to her and asked about the device.
She first said it did not e
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It's because business is going to China and toursim is going to the UAE.
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Absolutely right! I haven't flown since pre-September 2001, and have no plans of doing so anytime soon, or in the future. I'd rather drive then deal with the security theater and the possibility that I'd be harassed, even though I have nothing to hide or have done nothing wrong. I've heard way too many stories of innocent people being detained for just having a similar name to someone "of interest".. I'll drive.
My bet... (Score:2, Insightful)
- coming from a county known to have a large islamic population
- being non-white
- having " al" or "bin" somewhere in his name
But rest assured, we're being protected from something, somewhere, for some reason!
Re:My bet... (Score:4, Funny)
That's a cynical and inaccurate view on the situation.
He also had a beard.
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That's a cynical and inaccurate view on the situation.
He also had a beard.
That's not strictly accurate. While there was no evidence of a beard, there was reliable intel indicating that he had been considering growing one.
Just more evidence (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yeah, but we're fucking up their friends.
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Unless, of course, this man really is a threat and the delay of his arrival to his intended destination saved thousands of lives
That sound you heard was 10,000 palms hitting 10,000 faces after reading your post.
I'll tell you a secret (Score:2)
The truth is that terrorists are in US government. Government that knowingly hold innocent people as prisoners and tortures them in prison for eight (8) years [timesonline.co.uk] can easily be considered terrorist government in itself, especially given how many of the tortured prisoners were just civilians, sold to the US government by Afghans for 5K a head, probably some were competitors in some trade, others may have had lovely wives, who knows. At the time of Bush and Cheney, if you were in Afghanistan and didn't like som
The Gambia (Score:5, Informative)
This country is, funnily enough, actually called "The Gambia" [wikipedia.org], not Gambia, and it's got a really funny shape [google.com] that follows the course of the Gambia River. A pretty interesting place, actually.
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From your own link "Republic of The Gambia"
"The Gambia, officially the Republic of The Gambia and which is commonly known as Gambia by its residents"
Get outta my plane! (Score:2)
I can imagine the flight attendant: "Sir, you have to get out of the plane. Now".
Grab his shoes and underpants! (Score:3, Funny)
"Hi, I'm your stewardess. Would you like chicken or beef for your meal?"
"Oh, and please give me your shoes and underpants."
"It's just normal procedure, sir."
The poor captain: "Good Morning Air Traffic Control, I have some chop here, request permission to climb."
Air Traffic Control: "Fuck the chop . . . you have a no fly passenger on board . . . good day!
No-fly list (Score:2, Funny)
Of course he was on the no-fly list. He wasn't a fly, after all.
No-Land List (Score:2)
Understatement: (Score:2)
Really, someone who was announced by the captain of the flight, to everyone onboard, that he was a "serious security risk", got nervous when approached by what could be assumed to be an armed federal agent???
Yeah. Because I NEVER get nervous after being called a serious security risk and being approached by a federal officer...
<facepalm>
This guy's luck
Sadly, the whole flight had to be cancelled... (Score:2)
One bad apple spoiled the whole flight: http://www.theonion.com/articles/133-dead-as-delta-cancels-flight-in-midair,1837/ [theonion.com]
What should they have done? (Score:4, Insightful)
Putting aside for the moment the question of whether or not the "no-fly" lists serve a legitimate purpose (they don't), what should they have done? If information indicating a particular person may be dangerous comes in while someone is already in transit, should they have just said "Damn, if we had been a little quicker we wouldn't let you in, but you beat the buzzer. We suspect you're a terrorist, but since you had already left you can come in this time. But next time, forget it!"
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At least the got to him before (Score:2)
Fascism. (Score:2)
stop tagging this story with politically correct or watered down words people. this is outright fascism. denying right to travel on undeclared, non court warranted 'suspicion'.
if someone is guilty, you charge them. if someone is persona non grata, you extradite them. you do not do such charade like 'no fly lists'.
its a remnant of bush era stupor, and it smells cheney all around. it should go.
Another vague classification (Score:3, Insightful)
First we had a "suspect." Then there was a "person of interest." Now we have a "potential person of interest." Where does it end?
Let me propose...
Thought crime! (Score:2)
Please report immediately to you local retraining facility.
And remember, Big Brother loves you!
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So the powers that be can say they are doing *something* to combat terrorism. Even though it's pretty much ineffectual.
Re:Too little, too late ? (Score:5, Informative)
So the powers that be can say they are doing *something* to combat terrorism. Even though it's pretty much ineffectual.
We should all masturbate to fight terrorism. Just as effective as the TSA, but more fun.
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I'm outta mod points, sorry.
A little revision and we have a great T-shirt
"TSA: Tax Sponsored Asshats performaing vaudvillian TWAT masturbation"
(The War Against Terror, natch)
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DWB... FWN... WTF?
Re:Flying from Nigeria to the US *is* pretty suspe (Score:5, Informative)
DWB... FWN... WTF?
Driving while black. Flying while Nigerian. World Trade Federation.
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DWB = http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=DWB [urbandictionary.com]
Therefore
FWN = Flying While Nigerian
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